Going Clear: Scientology And The Prison Of Belief

[bmoore4026]

This whole thing depressed and angered me.

 

Even the some of the guys they interviewed, the ones who were closest with Miscavige and did his bidding, I wanted punched about the head and shoulders.

 

I can't believe the IRS caved like they did.  I cannot believe my father dedicated 20 years of his life to such a wormy office.

 

That part about Spanky's baby and how Scientologists treat children made me the most angry.  And no one can call Social Services because the Scientologists will be one step ahead and no doubt clean the kids up and show how everything is fine.

 

And L Ron was a ugly, ugly man both in body and soul.  There had better be a hell because an evil man like him needs to pay for all the pain he did.

[Janet Snakehole]

Miscavige's podium dress uniform was fucking creepy. It reminded me of the uniforms the evil dictators wore in those Twilight Zone episodes about unnamed totalitarian regimes.For more about the power of creepy uniforms and groupspeak, I encourage you to check out the documentary "Lesson Plan."

Thanks, I will definitely check that out!

I don't agree that there isn't brainwashing going on at the celebrity level. Cruise did not look like someone who was altogether there in that video with the Mission Impossible song. And Travolta at minimum seems to be being blackmailed.

[Kromm]

Thanks, I will definitely check that out!

I don't agree that there isn't brainwashing going on at the celebrity level. Cruise did not look like someone who was altogether there in that video with the Mission Impossible song. And Travolta at minimum seems to be being blackmailed.

No, if anything many of the celebs are getting an even higher level of brainwashing and/or coercion.  It's just that they're living in a far more comfortable bubble than the peons, and that there's an inner circle of celebs in Scientology and an outer circle who just give money and who haven't taken more than the intro course.  It all depends on if the "fine" folks at the Celeb Centre got good blackmail material during the e-meter sessions (Travola being the best known, but supposedly hardly the only example), or if the celeb him or herself is very susceptible to coercion (Cruise, Nancy Cartwright, Kirstie Alley), or if they're a family legacy (Jason Dohring, Jason Lee), or have other relatives (children, spouses) that got heavy into Scientology who become coercers (Anne Archer/Tommy Davis, Bodhi Elfman/Jenna Elfman).  

 

Those folks (and probably a few dozen more celebs I haven't mentioned) are all that inner circle, and then there was always an outer circle of people who just got squeezed for money or who were just there to support "friends" in the inner circle--that outer circle being a virtual who's who of big Hollywood stars, but definitely including Michael Jackson (in because of Lisa-Marie Presley, but supposedly not that deeply), J. Lo, Jerry Seinfeld, Charlie Sheen, possibly the Smiths (it's unclear how deep they're actually in), and anyone else who got hit up to give a donation or help at a Scientology sponsored charity event at some point.  

The big exception, I think, being "out" gays (vs. closeted ones, like allegedly Travolta), who Scientology shot themselves in the foot with, almost as much as the Mormons. So you probably won't see Ellen Degeneres or Rosie O'Donell, or Lance Bass or Sean Hayes or Neil Patrick Harris, or any actual close friends of theirs with that kind of contributing-to-Scientology history.  They never would have even been approached, I think (and arguably the big change in Hollywood culture that allowed these folks to emerge as huge stars as outed gays happened around the same time Scientology's core power started to weaken).

 

Again, it's all fascinating and all a big money trail that can't be ignored or minimized, but is just the tip of the iceberg compared to all of the weird stuff that happened out in the desert, or on their stupid Ship, or at Narconon, or in those many missions across the globe.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Kromm

[Jamoche]

I suspect that L. Ron Hubbard just merely provided the platform that after his death was turned into a Hollywood advancement club

Nope. Going after celebrities was his idea - if there was one thing he was good at, it's the evil side of marketing, and he knew people respond favorably to celebrity endorsements.

[Malaprop cocktail]

I enjoyed the documentary. I hadn't read any of these books and only know about Scientology from the fact that I have been on their mailing list since I was a preteen and unknowingly sent away for one of their books. Without any response from me whatsoever they have been sending me stuff at every address I've lived at in the last 2+ decades and also got hold of my email address somehow. So that alone is creepy as fuck.

 

I thought Katie Holmes was conspicuously absent from the story. No mention at all despite talking about issues tangential to her relationship with Cruise.

 

Did I hear correctly at the end that Scientology has only 50,000 members? I would have thought it would be much, much larger for all the press they get. And all their buildings. Does this mean they are basically a real-estate company? I wish there had been more than just a footnote about this.

[Kromm]

The 50,000 figure could well be accurate in the 2010s decade.  But remember that's after they were outed as dangerous quacks, lots of people leaving, not so many new ones joining, etc.  They've always exaggerated their numbers to give the impression of being a leading world religion, but it's not at all impossible that worldwide they could have a far far larger number than they do now.  Then again, THEY count anyone they send mailings to.  By their account, YOU are a Scientologist simply because they've put you on a mailing list.

[RedheadZombie]

Nope, guess I am going to have to be the spoiler here. For a documentary called "going clear" I am not at all clear on much of Scientology other than, it is bad. A "matrix of thought other than your own" yeh that clears it up for me. What is so glaringly obvious to me when I am watching anything on Scientology is that it is a Hollywood advancement club. But no one ever takes a look at that. Paul Haggis? Please after his bad movie gets the Oscar he suddenly has a moral moment over gays in the church? Uh huh. He just didn't need the church anymore. It isn't like there are outbreaks of this "cult" in Nebraska or Africa -- so clearly it isn't about "thought" that anyone can fall into. Sure there are some fools that have nothing to do with Hollywood in it, but they probably want to be surrounded with Hollywood / celebs.

I suspect that L. Ron Hubbard just merely provided the platform that after his death was turned into a Hollywood advancement club. Mostly what I learned from this documentary is that it has nothing to do with me and in a world where Radical Islam is trying to kill me daily ... got bigger fish to fry.

 

Children being taken from their parents and raised elsewhere.  Forced abortions.  Working 30 hours on, three hours off, and denied access to phones.  Billion year contracts and paid cents on the hour.  These are serious human rights violations.  The Sea Org are treated worse than indentured servants - they cannot work off their indenture.  Sea Org is also staffed by under age children, and David Miscavige's niece was one of them.  She escaped and has her own story to tell.

 

Yes, I am surprised they left out Shelly Miscavige. 

Will Smith has never publicly been a Scientologist. He just issued a statement saying he is "spritual" and interested in all faiths. J.Lo is also into Scientology just not publicly. I think if you are celebrity then Scientology is just a big self-help religion with Hollywood contacts. It's the no-names that are being abused and brainwashed. 

 

The Smiths built a school that taught via Scientology techniques.  Scientologist children are notoriously poorly educated, the Smiths weren't doing this to provide a fine education.  The Smith children are typical Scientology children - since they are adults born into tiny bodies, they are provided little to no guidance or discipline. 

[Deanie87]

I would have loved if this were a new multi-part documentary like The Jinx. It was good but I was left wanting more.

In addition to the mystery surrounding Miscavidge's wife, I wanted to know more about Travolta's son's death and what role, if any, CoS played in it.

I was under the impression* that his son may have been autistic and the church either doesn't acknowledge the condition or forbids any kind of treatment. For a while after his death it seemed that Travolta's was trying to break away but I guess that never happened.

I know that the documentary was based on the book but I hoped to get some newer info.

*I can't remember where I got my information, but I can't rule out unreliable gossip sites so my understanding of the situation may be totally wrong.

[fastiller]

RE: Crazy-Eyes Cruise: Apparently Christian Bale based Patrick Batemen (American Psycho) on him.

 

Christian Bale studied ‘intensive’ Tom Cruise for Psycho role.

 

[Director] Harron revealed: ‘We talked about how Martian-like Patrick Bateman was, how he was looking at the world like somebody from another planet, watching what people did and trying to work out the right way to behave.’

‘And then one day he called me and he had been watching Tom Cruise on David Letterman, and he just had this very intense friendliness with nothing behind the eyes, and he was really taken with this energy.’

[MostlyC]

Does anyone know what the ratings were?

[iMonrey]

I thought it was a very good documentary, but I could have done without the eerie music that played non-stop for the whole two hours in the background. It was almost subliminal, like a continuous low hum in the background of a 1950s movie about UFOs invading the earth. Scientology is scary enough without the spooky music.

Also, Jason Beghe doesn't strike me as being very bright, to be honest.

[Kromm]

I was very disappointed we didn't get the Space-Gorilla Amusement Park story.  The Xenu story actually being one of the LESS insane of the stories. Or the one about the Space-Brass-Dog who swallowed souls/people/thetans (same thing, remember?) and spat them out his anus.  Or the dozen other stories that are about our souls being tortured by various aliens throughout "squillions of years" (a Hubbard phrase, not mine).

 

Of course the bigger things left out were Mark Bunker and his role in taking Scientology down, and then of course Anonymous. Now Anonymous are often humongous shitheels, so it's understandable an anti-Scientology film might want to minimize their role, but just IGNORING it?  Wow.  They even showed news programs and footage with Anonymous protests in the background, but the name "Anonymous" wasn't mentioned ONCE during this documentary.

 

And Bunker?  Ignoring him is a crime. Aside from maybe Tony Ortega, Bunker was the beginning of almost all of this--one of the first dominoes that pushed over so many others.

Also weird, no Lisa McPherson mention, or any of the similar cases.

Or Narconon.  Or the true depths of the anti-Psychology campaign.

 

I get that in two hours there was so much that couldn't be fit in.  But you know... give us half the Jason Beghe and you've already recouped a few minutes.  The balance of this was weird overall because it spoke about celebs, money, power, real estate and a lot of stuff that IS dangerous in one sense, but left out whole huge areas whole cloth that would have reinforced viewers understanding how dangerous this all was and that it wasn't just a bunch of rich people being bilked.  The 40 cents an hour slavery stuff was a good start on communicating that, as was the stuff on disconnection, but it wasn't enough.

[Kromm]

You know it occurs to me that maybe leaving some of the stuff I mention above out was the "cost" of getting all of these ex-Scientology bigwigs to speak on camera. So the doc focused more on them and their story and less on some of the stuff they themselves oversaw that was criminal.  And ignoring Anonymous, Bunker, etc. to again focus on them leaving as the critical events rather than outside forces like those. 

[CherryMalotte]

Also weird, no Lisa McPherson mention, or any of the similar cases.

 

Kromm I had the same thought last night.  What a tragedy that was, and it's a tale that shows all the tentacles that Scientology has out there.  When Travolta mentioned about the no criminal, no war bullshit last night I thought sure, except for the people that get themselves out of the cult and then speak openly.  Then Scientology wages a war, showing up on doorsteps and the levels of harassment.    

 

 

 

The Smiths built a school that taught via Scientology techniques.  Scientologist children are notoriously poorly educated, the Smiths weren't doing this to provide a fine education.  The Smith children are typical Scientology children - since they are adults born into tiny bodies, they are provided little to no guidance or discipline.

 

I read stumbled upon an interview with the two and frankly I had to read it twice - they have very high opinions of themselves, and yes, you can tell there is a lack of education.  Just because one of them said they were reading about quantum physics doesn't mean they understood quantum physics.

Edited March 31, 2015 by CherryMalotte

[Morbs]

There's just so many crazy stories about Scientology, it probably should have been a miniseries.  I didn't know the woman being groomed to be Mrs.Tom Cruise was on Homeland.  Besides that, it was mostly stuff I already knew because I read the incredible Inside Scientology.

 

I realize Katie Holmes is probably up to her eyeballs in non-disclosure agreements, but I would do ANYTHING to read a tell all from her.  ANYTHING!

[Mindymoo]

I was bummed about them not mentioning Narconon too. In Narconon, they will make people go into hot saunas for hours, until a black or dark green liquid oozes from their pores. They will pump them full of vitamins. They claim to be a secular treatment facility, but it is a Scientology front group. Multiple people have died there. One who died was a diabetic, and because of their no drugs whatsoever policy, they denied him his insulin and that fucking killed him. They have minimal to no trained medical staff at the facilities. Most of the people who leave Narconon end up becoming Scientologists.

 

ETA I feel so bad for Nicole Kidman and how they poisoned her children against her. Tom Cruise is getting paid back, though. He hasn't seen Suri in nearly two years. Good on Katie Holmes for extricating her from that mess. I watched this documentary thinking at first "my god, how stupid could these people be to believe in such nonsense and degrade themselves for it", even after reading so much I've read about it, but I walked away feeling so much compassion and admiration for these people. The living hell that they continue to go through because of the Scientologists who are out there to ruin them is just... wow. I hope more people take Leah Remini and Paul Haggis' path and just nope the fuck out of the whole thing. There is life beyond this cult. It is destructive, it is a lie, and it is evil. And I think that David Miscavige is far worse than LRH ever was, as sick as that man was.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Mindy McIndy

[Kromm]

I realize Katie Holmes is probably up to her eyeballs in non-disclosure agreements, but I would do ANYTHING to read a tell all from her.  ANYTHING!

I've long assumed it's not mere NDAs keeping her in check, but fear of a custody suit.  

 

The CoS suing her for an NDA breach is probably just bad press for them.  Whereas a custody suit hits her where it really hurts and can be spun simply as Tom trying to assert his parental rights.

 

I mean while the methods were a little different, with Nicole it was clear that Scientology was perfectly happy to use kids as weapons. Something that was never really repairable (see this story about stuff that happened just last year).

Edited March 30, 2015 by Kromm

[geauxtee]

 

 

ETA I feel so bad for Nicole Kidman and how they poisoned her children against her. 

They must have some serious dirt on Kidman, because she didn't really even fight for custody. I know Lainey gossip said Nicole is a distant mother anyway and she was really critical of Isabella's weight.

[WendyCR72]

I have no doubt there are nondisclosure agreements involved as far as Katie Holmes and Suri go, but...Tom Cruise certainly didn't push the issue, much like it seems Nicole Kidman didn't push things as far as Connor and Isabella went. This all makes me think that, yes, while Holmes had to abide by some rules, the fact that multimillionaire Cruise didn't really do or say much about this has me thinking Holmes has her own share of dirt to keep Cruise in line and Scientology at bay.

 

Especially since this cult has been known to stalk former members. I think Holmes knows things and, for once, just maybe some of these idiots fear her.

[Janet Snakehole]

Space Gorilla Amusement Park?

To google I go.

[Morbs]

For some reason, I thought Narconon was actually a positive component of Scientology and they had a good success rate.

 

I had forgotten how good looking John Travolta used to be.  He's such a sad individual now.

[Kromm]

For some reason, I thought Narconon was actually a positive component of Scientology and they had a good success rate.

 

I had forgotten how good looking John Travolta used to be.  He's such a sad individual now.

Narconon is a typical bit of criminally irresponsible Scientology nonsense.  It's part and parcel of the whole pack of dangerous pseudo-medical doctrines Elron came up with, and then Missedcabbage commodicized.   

 

Firstly, it's practices are not just medically unsound, but dangerous. That's not to say you won't find plenty of people who went through their program and came out the other end off drugs, but most of those success stories are based upon people where cold turkey would have gotten them off anyway.  There's a TON of bullshit dangerous things they do in Narconon, so I won't belabor it or this will be a huge post, but you can look here for much of it: 

 

There's also the fact that originally they hid it was a Scientology front and used it as a recruitment tool for Scientology as well.  

 

Narconon is kind of the whole problem with Scientology supposedly being a Church duplicated.  Supposedly one "good thing" (a drug treatment program) hiding a wealth of misdeeds.

[Notwisconsin]

 

And L Ron was a ugly, ugly man both in body and soul.  There had better be a hell because an evil man like him needs to pay for all the pain he did.

Do you remember the part about Hubberd and the satanic cult he was in that was based on the teachings of Alestair Crowley? Well Crowely knew about L.Ron and thought he was a total shit.

[calliope1975]

Thinking about it, I also think this doc could have gone a lot further and covered more shady dealings of the "church." I also think a mini-series might have been in order. I mean, if HBO had to hire 160 lawyers for this thing, let's put them to good use. 

 

Katie Holmes extraction from her marriage was masterful. Based on Scientology's other dealings with people who left, she must have some serious dirt. It's the only thing I can think of for why TPTB and Tom Cruise have pretty much left her alone, especially with a child involed. She's very lucky her dad is an attorney and she had that support. I remember when TC was meeting with every young actress in Hollywood for a "project," then KH disappeared for a few weeks, then bam, she's his new girlfriend. It's all so bizarre.

[Athena]

They must have some serious dirt on Kidman, because she didn't really even fight for custody. I know Lainey gossip said Nicole is a distant mother anyway and she was really critical of Isabella's weight.

 

I've wondered this myself because Kidman seems to love her children from what she has said. She wishes she could have more. I've followed Kidman's career on and off. In the interview I've read where she mentioned Isabella, she's actually envious about Isabella's curves. They don't share a similar body type so Kidman appreciates her daughter's beauty, but this could be misconstrued. Kidman had a career when she was married to Cruise, but it was limited. It really bloomed after they separated. Married to Tom Cruise seems to be a job in itself.

[geauxtee]

 I think Holmes knows things and, for once, just maybe some of these idiots fear her.

Holmes' whole escape was at least a two year ordeal. Her attorney father helped her plan her escape. She was able to quietly dismiss her Scientology staff, so Cruise did not realize she was leaving until she physically left. 

 

[emjohnson03]

Wow just wow. I just....can't. It's amazing how this "religion" feeds off celebrity and the bribery and corruption.

 

It's a real study into the human condition, as these people are good people but find themseleves in impossible conditions, who fall to the savior like salvation of healing and peace (which is shrouded in anything BUT).

 

I think one of those most shocking things is how these people are just "allowed" to leave. I mean of course people in the "church" can't go and kill them but to speak so freely I feel would be such a scary thing. Which of course reading further does seem to be the case.

 

Those leaders made me sick, especially that Miscgivens guys. What a egostical and corrupt man who clearly suffers from paranoia and mental problems. He is a good looking and suave linguist who like so many before him, will fall and fail because of their own God like belief.

 

The Tom Cruise was most interesting to me. If he wasn't treated like a God it would fall apart I feel. It's only standing because of his money and his status.

 

I thought of Jamestown parallels because of how a man who was sick but gifted in his rise to power ended up destroying lives and at the end still believed in the cause. Let the madness end please. Jail the leaders. Release those children.

 

IRS and FBI don't pass go.

Edited March 31, 2015 by emjohnson03

[Snow Apple]

I remember when TC was meeting with every young actress in Hollywood for a "project," then KH disappeared for a few weeks, then bam, she's his new girlfriend. It's all so bizarre.

I remember a short while before Katie Holmes ever entered the picture, I was reading a gossip column in a newspaper or magazine and it said Tom invited Scarlett Johansson to the center. What I remembered reading was that she ran the heck out of dodge and I actually gave a little cheer. True or not, I don't wish that on my worst enemy. When I read your post, I wondered how many women/actresses went through that before Katie. So creepy and horrifying.

[calliope1975]

I remember a short while before Katie Holmes ever entered the picture, I was reading a gossip column in a newspaper or magazine and it said Tom invited Scarlett Johansson to the center. What I remembered reading was that she ran the heck out of dodge and I actually gave a little cheer. True or not, I don't wish that on my worst enemy. When I read your post, I wondered how many women/actresses went through that before Katie. So creepy and horrifying.

 

Yep, I remember that bit about Scarlett, too. I think the actresses were told it was for a movie, but once they got there, they got the Scieno interview treatment. So glad Scarlett noped on out of there. 

 

I watched a Jonestown documentary a few weeks ago, and both had the same type of beginnings. People who really wanted to belong and do good for the world but end up following a man who believes his own hype until everyone's destroyed. Seems like a tale that replays itself all too often.

Edited March 31, 2015 by calliope1975

[WendyCR72]

I'm aghast at how far reaching this cult is and feel sorry for those born into this crap. They likely believe this is "normal". I know Beck, the musician, is one of those cases. I am not a huge fan of his music but realize he is talented. But I can't help but wonder how someone who is constantly exposed to such an oppressive environment can live out of it without having a severely warped world view.

 

But, then, Beck also seems to be doing okay, so maybe there are exceptions? I know Giovanni Ribisi is another such example...

[Proclone]

I've wondered this myself because Kidman seems to love her children from what she has said. She wishes she could have more. I've followed Kidman's career on and off. In the interview I've read where she mentioned Isabella, she's actually envious about Isabella's curves. They don't share a similar body type so Kidman appreciates her daughter's beauty, but this could be misconstrued. Kidman had a career when she was married to Cruise, but it was limited. It really bloomed after they separated. Married to Tom Cruise seems to be a job in itself.

 

I honestly have no idea what kind of mother or how close Nicole Kidman was/is with her children, but perhaps she simply didn't want to put them through a long drawn out court case.  If the kids were already poisoned against her by Tom and Scientology she may have just decided to take what she could get rather than risk going through a ugly court battle and run the risk of further alienating the kids and possibly loosing what little contact she did have with them.  

[scarynikki12]

There's a part of me that likes to think that Shelly Miscavige escaped under cover of night and the COS is pretending she's doing "private work" while they try to find her.  The realist in me, though, knows that it's far more likely that she's dead or in The Hole.  If she's dead, they they used an imposter when the LAPD investigated the missing persons claim and if she's in The Hole, well, the ex-members made it very clear that how effective a tool it is for controlling people. 

 

It also seems like Tom probably would have ended up leaving had Miscavige not offered him the world.  If Tom were just a hair less narcissistic things could have been very different.  He's the opposite of Haggis.  The catalyst for Haggis leaving was his love for his daughters super-ceding his indoctrination.  They were being mistreated and he couldn't overlook that the way he did the other offenses.  Tom, though, was described as being crazy in love with Nicole yet he turned his back on her in favor of his indoctrination.

 

Another hope I have is that Travolta will one day find the courage to leave.  Whatever they've got on him (maybe he's gay, maybe he revealed something else), I think is enough for him to believe that he will lose everything but I am confident that the opposite will happen.  If he manages to leave he will have the support of so many fans, colleagues and Oprah.  It'd be nice to see but I have a feeling he never will and I find that sad.  Cruise, on the other hand, I couldn't care less about.  I hope everyone ends up leaving and he and Miscavige find themselves in an empty Celebrity Center wondering where everyone went.

[lovinbob]

It also seems like Tom probably would have ended up leaving had Miscavige not offered him the world.  If Tom were just a hair less narcissistic things could have been very different.  He's the opposite of Haggis.  The catalyst for Haggis leaving was his love for his daughters super-ceding his indoctrination.  They were being mistreated and he couldn't overlook that the way he did the other offenses.  Tom, though, was described as being crazy in love with Nicole yet he turned his back on her in favor of his indoctrination.

 

Another hope I have is that Travolta will one day find the courage to leave.  Whatever they've got on him (maybe he's gay, maybe he revealed something else), I think is enough for him to believe that he will lose everything but I am confident that the opposite will happen.  If he manages to leave he will have the support of so many fans, colleagues and Oprah.  It'd be nice to see but I have a feeling he never will and I find that sad.  Cruise, on the other hand, I couldn't care less about.  I hope everyone ends up leaving and he and Miscavige find themselves in an empty Celebrity Center wondering where everyone went.

It's interesting with Travolta. I kept wondering what they could possibly have on him. That he's gay? At this stage of his life and career, is that such a scandal? Certainly "scandalous" activities have come out in the press, and Scientology doesn't seem to have protected him from that very well. It makes me wonder if there are far worse things.

On the flip side, though, Travolta joined when he was so young and vulnerable. I wonder if he credits the Church so much with his success (and with helping him to deal with his grief at the loss of his wife) that he couldn't imagine life without it.

 

Haggis is an interesting case, because he comes across as so deeply skeptical of any kind of organized religion that ultimately leaving the Church doesn't really surprise me. What surprises me is that it took him so long.

 

I would LOVE to hear what some of Cruise's more normal Hollywood buddies have to say. I've listened to Rob Lowe's audiobooks. His stories of the early days of Tom Cruise in Hollywood, and his severe intensity, are very entertaining. I follow Rob on Twitter and was hoping to get his impressions of this movie. I doubt he'd ever come out critical of his friend but it would be nice if some big celebs would call a spade a spade re Scientology!

[JohnnyGilda]

Also, Jason Beghe doesn't strike me as being very bright, to be honest.

 

At one point while watching, I informed Mr. J-G of the important role that a young Jason Beghe (and his nude scenes on HBO's First and Ten) had played in my pre-adolescent development.  Mr. J-G's response:  "Yeah, but he sure is dumb, isn't he?"

 

The celebrity CoS stories might be the most car-crash compelling--I learned just enough about Travolta's tale to feel a little sorry for him--but it's the stories of families being forced apart by their so-called church that really steam me.  SP's and OT's--what BS!!

 

Edited March 31, 2015 by JohnnyGilda

[paramitch]

Children being taken from their parents and raised elsewhere.  Forced abortions.  Working 30 hours on, three hours off, and denied access to phones.  Billion year contracts and paid cents on the hour.  These are serious human rights violations.  The Sea Org are treated worse than indentured servants - they cannot work off their indenture.  Sea Org is also staffed by under age children, and David Miscavige's niece was one of them.  She escaped and has her own story to tell.

 

The Smiths built a school that taught via Scientology techniques.  Scientologist children are notoriously poorly educated, the Smiths weren't doing this to provide a fine education.  The Smith children are typical Scientology children - since they are adults born into tiny bodies, they are provided little to no guidance or discipline. 

 

I really, really wish the doc had included the Smiths, who are at least rumored to have a similar arrangement with the church as Travolta and Preston, including a semi-arranged marriage, etc. (the kids are 100% little Scientology drones). I also wish the doc had emphasized that the Church goes after actors/celebs who are perceived to be vulnerable, under-educated, and due for a comeback.

 

I was under the impression* that his son may have been autistic and the church either doesn't acknowledge the condition or forbids any kind of treatment. For a while after his death it seemed that Travolta's was trying to break away but I guess that never happened.

I feel really sorry for Travolta, because his son evidently was seriously epileptic, but it's rumored that it was Preston and their Scientology retinue that discouraged proper medical treatment (Preston is openly a militant believer in Scientology's anti-psychology and anti-medication platform and has picketed psychiatrists' offices for years).

 

I was disappointed in Beghe's interviews because he's been fairly eloquent elsewhere, where here it was all just, "man, it was fuckin' insane!" etc. The Vanity Fair article of a few years back actually felt more well-researched to me -- but I haven't read the book.

 

I read stumbled upon an interview with the two and frankly I had to read it twice - they have very high opinions of themselves, and yes, you can tell there is a lack of education.  Just because one of them said they were reading about quantum physics doesn't mean they understood quantum physics.

That absolutely crazypants interview they gave in The New York Times recently was so incredibly narcissistic, hilarious, yet depressing -- it must be seen to be believed. My favorite moment:

 

WILLOW: That’s what I do with novels. There’re no novels that I like to read so I write my own novels, and then I read them again, and it’s the best thing.

JADEN: Willow’s been writing her own novels since she was 6.

 

 

ETA I feel so bad for Nicole Kidman and how they poisoned her children against her. Tom Cruise is getting paid back, though. He hasn't seen Suri in nearly two years. Good on Katie Holmes for extricating her from that mess. I watched this documentary thinking at first "my god, how stupid could these people be to believe in such nonsense and degrade themselves for it", even after reading so much I've read about it, but I walked away feeling so much compassion and admiration for these people. The living hell that they continue to go through because of the Scientologists who are out there to ruin them is just... wow. I hope more people take Leah Remini and Paul Haggis' path and just nope the fuck out of the whole thing. There is life beyond this cult. It is destructive, it is a lie, and it is evil. And I think that David Miscavige is far worse than LRH ever was, as sick as that man was.

Agreed. I don't believe for a second that Kidman wasn't a good mother or that she was cruel to Isabella. I think that's all Scientology propaganda. I feel incredibly sorry for Kidman -- the documentary is pretty blunt about the fact that there was a team of people whose sole job it was to destroy the Kidman-Cruise marriage in its final year by spying on Nicole, manipulating her and her children, and building up any information or dirt they could use against her to divide her from Cruise and bring him back to the fold.

 

My guess is that her tapped phone line revealed something -- or was edited to reveal something that fit the bill for them, and that eventually caused Cruise to shut the marriage down (there were rumors about her and Ewan MacGregor on "Moulin Rouge," for instance). Meanwhile, they'd already gotten the kids utterly brainwashed and out of the picture -- I think Kidman didn't fight for custody because the kids already viewed her as a poisonous SP and the church was encouraging disconnection. Even if it came to a court battle, the kids were old enough at that point to actively state that they did not want to live with their mother. Kidman was in a lose-lose situation.

 

I'm a little angry at Haggis, who I think had his cake and ate it too -- got all the benefits of Scientology connections for his career while evidently blithely unaware that his own daughters were being subjected to bigotry and discrimination from them. Part of me just wonders if Haggis wasn't kind of deliberately blind for a number of years, choosing not to notice the more disturbing stuff. But still -- I'm glad he was honest. Even if I freaking hate Crash.

 

the fact that multimillionaire Cruise didn't really do or say much about this has me thinking Holmes has her own share of dirt to keep Cruise in line and Scientology at bay.

The rumormill has it that the prenup Holmes's father prepared took up a whole file cabinet, and that it was so exhaustively prepared and researched that Katie was already far stronger legally just entering the marriage than anyone else would have been, and insulated against the worst case scenario her parents were obviously fully expecting. Then when things predictably began to go bad (right around the time Suri was set to be seriously indoctrinated), Katie was able to quietly disconnect from Cruise and their retinue before they even knew what hit them. I never liked her much as an actress, but the way she exited that marriage and retained tight custody of that little girl filled me with respect.

 

Narconon is a typical bit of criminally irresponsible Scientology nonsense.  It's part and parcel of the whole pack of dangerous pseudo-medical doctrines Elron came up with, and then Missedcabbage commodicized.   

 

Narconon is kind of the whole problem with Scientology supposedly being a Church duplicated.  Supposedly one "good thing" (a drug treatment program) hiding a wealth of misdeeds.

I completely agree. There's been a ton of information on Narconon and the difference between what it actually is and how it presents itself. It's really upsetting and scary, especially when you factor in the crazypants anti-medical platform.

 

Holmes' whole escape was at least a two year ordeal. Her attorney father helped her plan her escape. She was able to quietly dismiss her Scientology staff, so Cruise did not realize she was leaving until she physically left. 

I loved that. I remember mentally high-fiving Katie when the news hit the stands. She didn't just leave -- she was already gone and utterly locked down and safe before Cruise or Miscavige even knew what had happened. It was awesome.

 

I remember a short while before Katie Holmes ever entered the picture, I was reading a gossip column in a newspaper or magazine and it said Tom invited Scarlett Johansson to the center. What I remembered reading was that she ran the heck out of dodge and I actually gave a little cheer.

Yeah, during the time right after Tom had reportedly just reached the highest rank (what I've heard described as a kind of archbishop level), that was his crazy year of being super-evangelical. He would show up for press interviews and instead take reporters to Scientology events and Narconon meetings on his motorcycle. He had an ongoing list and would famously cold-call actresses for dates, only to have them show up to a room full of Scientologists (at which point Johansson so notably turned on her heel and walked out). I remember that one of the actresses he kept calling from his list of potentials was supposedly Jennifer Garner, and that she reportedly kept trying to explain to him that she wasn't interested in Scientology, and also was (I think) already married to Affleck, or about to be.

 

I wish the doc had included more of the really nuts misogynistic stuff that participants actually espouse, and that were simply based on L.Ron Hubbard's own mental illnesses -- like the horrific "silent birth" concept in which women are not allowed to cry out or make any noise while giving birth because it would "traumatize" the baby, etc. The story about Hubbard beating his wife in the head with a gun while she was sleeping because she smiled in her sleep and he "could tell she was thinking of someone else" was just horrifying. The man was seriously crazy.

Edited March 31, 2015 by paramitch

[BatmanBeatles]

 

Yeah, during the time right after Tom had reportedly just reached the highest rank (what I've heard described as a kind of archbishop level), that was his crazy year of being super-evangelical. He would show up for press interviews and instead take reporters to Scientology events and Narconon meetings on his motorcycle. He had an ongoing list and would famously cold-call actresses for dates, only to have them show up to a room full of Scientologists (at which point Johansson so notably turned on her heel and walked out).

Then there was Tom openly criticizing Brooke Shields for getting treatment for PPD and getting in Matt Lauer's face.

In Scientology, they tell you so much, but you still don't get much information. I've looked at their official websites and I'm more baffled than when I first looked it up. This doesn't happen with most other religions.

[Deanie87]

I believe that all of the Cruise shenanigans began after he and his publicist at the time, Pat Kingsley (?) parted ways. She was apparently able to keep a tight rein on his "intensity" and advised him to keep the Scientology talk to a minimum. I don't know if he fired her or she quit, but he hired his sister, also a church member, and thus began the couch jumping, the Matt Lauer kerfuffle and general descent into creepdom.

So, yes, I have read an US Magazine or two :)

[Snow Apple]

I thought it was so creepy when Tom Cruise's sister kept following Katie Holmes around. I'm so glad she got out of there. She appeared to be a perfect stepford wife that people (unfairly) made fun of but in hindsight, you realize how clever that was and how stressful and scary it must have been. One wrong word or act and it might have been all over for her. To keep it up for two(?) years is very impressive, especially in that intrusive environment.

[calliope1975]

Yeah, Travolta came across and really naive. I think he feels trapped now, though I thought he might have tried to break away after Jett died. I also agree that if he did quit he'd have a ton of support.

 

Cruise came off as a complete loon. 

[bmoore4026]

Do you remember the part about Hubberd and the satanic cult he was in that was based on the teachings of Alestair Crowley? Well Crowely knew about L.Ron and thought he was a total shit.

 

And that says a lot!

I'm wondering if the wives of the former Inner Circle members ('cause that's what they were) are still in that Hole?  It's terrible to imagine, isn't it?

 

And I hope to God that, one day, we get to find out the sick shit Tom Cruise is into.  I've disliked him for years, but such information might actually elevate that disdain.

 

And yeah, I legitimately feel sorry for Nicole Kidman and Katie Holmes.  I wonder if Kidman's decent into B-roles and lackluster films has something to do with the Scientologists.  Or is it just Hollywood ageism?

[Kromm]

Yeah, Travolta came across and really naive. I think he feels trapped now, though I thought he might have tried to break away after Jett died. I also agree that if he did quit he'd have a ton of support.

Travolta's situation seems to be pretty complicated.  It's not clear if he's 1.) bisexual, or 2.)  flat out gay and struggling to repress it, or finally 3.) gay and NOT repressing it as much as covering it up.  Those situations would all have their own wrinkles.  But no matter what, he's married, and his wife is reportedly a very nutty super-Scientologist (who just completed her OT7 about 6 months ago).  Or at least it appears so--we do have to remember, for example, that Leah Remini also appeared to be on the extreme end of nutty devotion when she was "in" also.  But it's at least seemed at times that Kelly Preston is more like Travola's jailer than just his beard/sperm-implanted Baby Mama.  

 

And this gets back to paralleling questions like what hold Scientology has over Kidman and to a degree even still Holmes.  Travolta and Preston have two other kids besides the one who died (15 and 5 years old).  In other words, even aside from the potential embarrassment of being outed as either bisexual or gay, if Preston really isn't totally on the same page as Travolta, then we get back to Scientology possibly threatening his custody/access to his kids, through Preston.  

[terrymct]

Space Gorilla Amusement Park?

To google I go.

 

Google about the invisible space cats that are supposed to be running around on the walls of the room you are sitting in.

[Snow Apple]

I don't have HBO and haven't read any of the books, so I don't know what this "hole" you all keep talking about. I just looked it up on wikipedia. Yikes! I'm sick to my stomach. All I kept thinking is *concentration camps*

[Kromm]

Google about the invisible space cats that are supposed to be running around on the walls of the room you are sitting in.

Just as a shortcut, this page is "fun" reading to get an overview:  Wikipedia: Incident (Scientology)

 

But there's also info here, on the original book where many (not all) of the wacky stories started, when Elron was transitioning from just being a writer of bad pulp Sci-Fi to coming up with Dianetics (which remember, preceded Scientology):  Wikipedia: Scientology: A History of Man (Original pre-Scienotology title What To Audit)

The space cats are in that mess somewhere, I suppose (that's not one of the stories I recall).

[ennui]

I only saw the second hour of this -- I plan to watch it again from the beginning.

RE John Travolta, well, if Bruce Jenner can transition in his 60s, there's hope for John, too.

RE Nicole, she's never impressed me as being a strong person, so I can understand why she might not have the backbone for a long, drawn out battle.

Edited March 31, 2015 by ennui

[hoodooznoodooz]

Wow. It was so disturbing to learn about the baby lying on a urine-saturated mattress, her eyes glued shut with dried mucus.

The members must have been so naive and vulnerable when they first showed an interest in the CoS.

So many questions:

Is it a coincidence that Travolta began booking acting jobs after joining? Or was it because the CoS helped improve his confidence? Or did the CoS pay the studios to book him?

Isn't it odd that the CoS wasn't able to break up Nicole and Tom sooner?

I've always wondered why Nicole and Tom adopted, then had bio children in their following marriages. Was that a CoS issue?

So LRH displayed signs of mental illness (wanted that other member to help him commit suicide) but none of the members worried about that? Wouldn't this lead to them questioning the CoS?

Why would the IRS give up? They were too lazy to pursue it?

Also, isn't Mimi Rogers the one responsible for introducing Tom Cruise to the CoS, yet she herself came to her senses soon after?

Edited March 31, 2015 by hoodooznoodooz

[Kromm]

So LRH displayed signs of mental illness (wanted that other member to help him commit suicide) but none of the members worried about that or led them to question the CoS?

I'm sure some did... and left.  And many others were shielded from seeing how wacked out Elron was because of his cadre of protectors who were protecting their own powerbases.  

 

 

Why would the IRS give up? They were too lazy to pursue it?

It sounded like a combination of weakness in the leader of the IRS at the time and what was admittedly a hell of a pickle they were in, with countless orchestrated lawsuits deliberately tying them up all at once.  Remember, Scientology's membership was far higher then compared to now and if they got even 4 or 5 % of their membership to file lawsuits, it still meant thousands of them all at once.

[FormerMod-a1]

Yeah, it sounded like they pretty much waged war on the IRS and won.  And that's what I think is the scariest thing I've learned about them so far.  The IRS has brought down many a criminal.  They don't want to lose a money source (taxes over $1B?) and they backed down.  Yikes.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Thank you, Kromm. Your explanation makes so much sense.

I feel like I was hit by a car, after watching this documentary.

I wish we could start a website, reassuring Travolta that no matter what dirt the CoS has on him, his fans will support him.

[absnow54]

I've always wondered why Nicole and Tom adopted, then had bio children in their following marriages. Was that a CoS issue?

I haven't gone through the tinfoil hats in a while, but weren't there huge conspiracy theories surrounding Suri's birth? I remember there being rumors that (a) Katie Holmes was already pregnant when she met Tom (and then went on to wear a fake stomach for a few months and held off on releasing photos for the longest time) or (b) Suri is David Miscavige's spawn (which I find very hard to believe.) There were also rumors that Tom shied away from custody battles because Katie threatened to do a paternity test.

 

Basically, I really hope there's an expiration date on any of Katie Holmes NDAs because the tell all would be epic.