S03.E17: Suicidal Tendencies

[Morrigan2575]

Where did the Senator go? He found a League of Assassins travel agent that got him stateside? Shouldn't Diggle be hunting the Senator? Or is Diggle going back on his word? Has Roy filled out his Obamacare documents?

the senator managed to escape, he paid the hostages off to keep quiet and Waller wouldn't let Lyla go public with the truth. This was covered in the final dyla scene.

[apinknightmare]

the senator managed to escape, he paid the hostages off to keep quiet and Waller wouldn't let Lyla go public with the truth. This was covered in the final dyla scene.

 

Honest to god, I had tuned out by then haha. This episode seemed to drag on FOR ETERNITY

[lemotomato]

So Felicity, who refuses to be with Oliver because he who won't commit her 100%, instead chooses to go back to a man that a) stole her facial recognition program, b) didn't tell her that the suit she worked on was functional, c) didn't tell her he went out vigilante-ing in said suit, d) said he didn't trust her, e) attacked her friends after she told him not to.

 

But he does want to be happy! So that make it all OK!

 

Oh and Oliver, Jesus called. He wants you to get off the cross because he needs it back for Easter.

 

I was afraid that Deadshot would be a goner since they killed Bronze Tiger in the 2.5 comics presumably because of conflicts with the Suicide Squad movie. What a waste of Michael Rowe.

 

Why do I watch this show? Whyyy?

Edited March 26, 2015 by lemotomato

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

Maybe it's because this was the first episode since 308 that I watched but I didn't think it was bad.

 

I've watched every episode and I didn't think it was that bad either.  It wasn't my favorite episode by any means, but it wasn't the worst episode either. I'm not bothered by Ray at all.  Dude is just not that important so I will never understand all this angst about him.  Then again, I also don't think Felicity was a pod person   either. So I'm clearly in the minority on the board.

 

You hurt her and they will never find your body!  Love ya Diggle! It's a good thing Lyla quit ARGUS because Diggle quitting Team ARROW is not an option for me. Aww baby Sara is adorable.

 

I refuse to believe Deadshot is really dead unless I see a body and maybe not even then.  Cupid is still crazy…good to know.  Oliver is really not having any luck lately.  Felicity is with Ray and now Cupid has dumped him for Deadshot. :)

 

"Arrow"  "Supersuit" Hee!

 

I liked the Oliver/Felicity scenes.  They said things that probably needed to be said. And I am not buying this idea that Oliver or Ray took her agency away this episode.

 

Maseo, I'm willing to give you a pass on shooting the Mayor because well if you decide to be mayor is Starling City, you're kinda asking for it.  They all wind up dead sooner rather than later.  But if you even consider shooting Felicity, I'm done with you.

 

Quentin I get you're still mad, but dial it back a bit okay.

 

Steven Culp you never play a good guy,  Glad to see that hasn't changed.

Edited March 26, 2015 by MsSchadenfreude

[blixie]

 

but I fail to see how anyone decided who Felicity should be with or took away her agency.

Oliver implied that he didn't choose not to be with Felicity just so she could choose to be with someone JUST LIKE HIM the implication is she should have honored what he choose for her (not to be with a vigilante specifically), her *agency* was irrelevant to him, and says so much for how much they have fucked up Olicity for me. 

It's not that he took away her agency it's that he doesn't respect the agency she has expressed repeatedly to him, about their relationship and her choice to be with Ray.

 

Antytime the mens get together and decide what precious pedestal women "deserve" it's gross, sorry that's just how it feels to me: GROSS, it's treating them like objects instead of real women who are capable of surviving on their own merits.

[closer2fine]

Oliver implied that he didn't choose not to be with Felicity just so she could choose to be with someone JUST LIKE HIM the implication is she should have honored what he choose for her (not to be with a vigilante specifically), her *agency* was irrelevant to him, and says so much for how much they have fucked up Olicity for me. 

It's not that he took away her agency it's that he doesn't respect the agency she has expressed repeatedly to him, about their relationship and her choice to be with Ray.

 

Antytime the mens get together and decide what precious pedestal women "deserve" it's gross, sorry that's just how it feels to me: GROSS, it's treating them like objects instead of real women who are capable of surviving on their own merits.

 

Thank you, blixie.  This is what I was getting at. I'm still coming out of a rage blackout, so my choice of words and lack of explanation wasn't clear.

[Actionmage]

Maseo, I'm willing to give you a pass on shooting the Mayor because well if you decide to be mayor is Starling City, you're kinda asking for it.  They all wind up dead sooner rather than later.  But if you even consider shooting Felicity, I'm done with you.

 

Being the mayor of Starling City doesn't equal "asking for it" (it= Death). Running around places with windows and outdoors without body armor is what is causing the high turnover rate. The current/last(?) mayor probably ignored Quentin's advice to wear body armor and to keep windows to a minimum.  She ignored most of his other, sound advice.

 

Quentin I get you're still mad, but dial it back a bit okay.

 

 

But has he gone back to taking Felicity's calls? *g*

[statsgirl]

Even if Felicity is in Maseo's sightline, wouldn't it be awfully stupid of him to kill her?  Since the Loa knows Oliver cares for Felicity and they're trying to recruit him, wouldn't they want to keep her around as a bargaining chip later on?

 

I know, it's so Ray can save her, and then they'll try to take the taste of what Ray did to her in this episode out of our mouths.  They're really scraping the bottom of the barrel with the tropes in this storyline.

 

 

Anytime the mens get together and decide what precious pedestal women "deserve" it's gross, sorry that's just how it feels to me: GROSS, it's treating them like objects instead of real women who are capable of surviving on their own merits.

Exactly.  This show can write such good female characters, and then they're all sacrificed to the male ones.

 

 

Ray kept a secret from Felicity. Ray believes Felicity to be untrustworthy. Felicity apologizes.

The whole reason Ray was supposed to be a better option than Oliver was because he was more emotionally available and he was a team player so Felicity didn't get shut out.  But it's not true, he's not telling her that the suit she worked on for months is now functioning and he's stopped taking her advice.  Also, he electrocuted poor Roy who was just trying to help people.

 

And now Felicity is a doormat because she's going back to him and the one to apologize.  Don't they know they just stuck a spike into Raylicity, and into any Arrow viewers who might want to follow him to the new spin-off?

 

Oliver NEVER gave Felicity the choice. He shut down and shut her out, while sort of keeping her on the line with I Love Yous and You Know How I Feel About Hers.

And now he can continue to feel good about the decisions that he made for her.  Is there a misogyny prize on this show?  This episode and Sara are top contenders.

[DrSpaceman10]

Again, why do they think we care about freaking Ray than Roy? GOD I wish their names didn't sound so similar, its going to make my upcoming rants really hard to type out! 

 

Just remember with Ray the 'a' stands for asshole. Was that too bitter?

[La Dee Da]

I'm not sure what to say (won't stop me, though) - I think they could have acheived their objectives for this point of the show with some different choices. And pacing.   

 

I knew they were going to kill off Deadshot as soon as I saw those (poorly acted) Deadshot flashbacks.

 

The spin-off is totally making me overthink things - I assumed this was a "get to know Deadshot better" moment to set him up as part of the superteam.  I guess that's still possible .... they didn't show a broken eye-targeting viewer thingy lying in the flames, did they?  Cupid and I can still hope!!!

 

Yeah, that's what's bothering me the most here. She went back to him like nothing happened. I'm glad he apologized, but they needed to work some shit out. 

Couldn't agree more.  I'm okay with Ray's "I don't even know you!" reaction - Felicity's support for Oliver when he appears to be back to killing (and her "duh yes, I have feelings for him that will never ever die" answer to his question) would be a lot to digest.  But she had equal right to be upset that he kept his suiting up from her and to vocalize concerns about trust in the relationship.  I don't see how he considers her as  a partner if he does not include her in this aspect of his life/mission.  Leaving this dynamic out of their equation - and their coming to "resolution" - is unnecessary.  Having them argue, acknowledge that there are hard issues to overcome but that they want to try  to resolve them would still serve the show's purpose - a viable (well, viable-adjacent, given tonight's show) alternative to Oliver, and how Felicity pursues what she wants from life - and offer better character moments for all involved.  I did like how Oliver and Felicity spoke about each other, though, and started getting at the heart of their issues. 

 

I also agree with the comments on Roy seemingly being left behind (maybe he did a couple of parkour flips out of there?) - Oliver carrying him out would've been another way to show Ray  that he's a compassionate sort of vigilante.  The type that doesn't shoot possibly lethal and likely untested energy bolts at people!

 

But props for the Supersuit stuff from Oliver and Roy, the "hell, yes" marriage vows, and the incredulous looks from Oliver and Dig when Ray volunteered to officiate. 

 

 

[Artsda]

When everyone at the wedding started get the exact same text message at the same time with the notifications going off I thought I was watching Pretty Little Liars.

 

Overall it was rushed and messy episode.

[blackwing]

Such a terrible episode. Things in particular:

1. Looks like Stephen Amell shaved his armpits again. Also, is it me, or does he look chunkier?

2. No waiter with a professional catering company would ever open a bottle of champagne like that and let the cork fly.

3. Everything about asshole Ray Palmer.

4. Cupid. Again. Really?

[TanyaKay]

I am so very happy to say that this is one episode of Arrow where Laurel Lance did not fail either as a human being or a lawyer and she did not get to play the vigilante so she did not fail as that either.

[opus]

Even if Felicity is in Maseo's sightline, wouldn't it be awfully stupid of him to kill her?  Since the Loa knows Oliver cares for Felicity and they're trying to recruit him, wouldn't they want to keep her around as a bargaining chip later on?

 

"Okay, you killed Felicity. I'll take the job."

[apinknightmare]

Also, I have to say, two thumbs down to Felicity with her "You'd like that, wouldn't you?" when Oliver said that Ray was going to get himself killed. 

 

Like...when has this dude ever expressed even the slightest bit of animosity that you have a boyfriend? Goodness.

 

I agree with whoever said it - this show wouldn't have a problem with the Moonlighting curse, because they don't have a problem with writing Oliver and Felicity together, but they have a really big one trying to keep them apart. 

1. Looks like Stephen Amell shaved his armpits again. Also, is it me, or does he look chunkier?

 

He actually looked smaller to me? This is the first time I understood why he'd say that he'd need some advance notice for shirtless scenes. You can tell he hasn't had any in a while, bless him. STILL HOT, WOULD CARESS (and other stuff)

[wonderwall]

"Okay, you killed Felicity. I'll take the job."

#Logic

[statsgirl]

"Okay, you killed Felicity. I'll take the job."

Wouldn't he be more likely to say "You killed Felicity, now you die?"

[strikera0]

1. Looks like Stephen Amell shaved his armpits again. Also, is it me, or does he look chunkier?

 

I wouldn't say he looks chunkier, but he doesn't look as ripped as he did before. Can't say I blame him. Now that he's a father, he probably doesn't want to spend as much time in the gym as he did in the past.

[paigow]

Wouldn't he be more likely to say "You killed Felicity, now you die?"

Ras: Take the job or Thea dies next.

[wonderwall]

Wouldn't he be more likely to say "You killed Felicity, now you die?"

My name is Oliver Queen, you killed my Felicity. Prepare to die.

 

YES. YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES. Except in this case, Felicity doesn't actually die in the end and gets barely saved. 

I think some of the few things I enjoyed this episode: 

• Laurel handing Ray's ass to him
• Laurel Felicity interaction (I KNOW. I actually liked her this episode)
• Diggle/Deadshot
• Cupid/Deadshot
• Oliver/Felicity (yeah they were angsty, but I liked that they talked through their issues and ended up in a good place. If you look at their scenes alone and take away Palmer from the equation, their scenes were quite great)
• Diggle threatening Palmer
• Diggle. 

[paigow]

Even if Felicity is in Maseo's sightline,

Bet he never fires...That firing sound is Oliver.

[KirkB]

Was there more than one window in the mayor's office? I ask, because it didn't look like there was any broken glass in the window Maseo was aiming at Felicity through, and I'm pretty sure you can't fire an arrow through glass without damaging it.

 

Laurel was tolerable for a lot of people because she wasn't in much of the episode, was toned down more than usual, and in particular because she wasn't wearing her sister's skin...I mean, clothes.

 

Ray, you might want to rethink your vigilante ambitions if your suit can so easily be taken out by a...what was it Oliver threw? A knife? And while I'm on the subject, who decided making him the official at Diggle and Lyla's wedding was a good idea?

 

Deadshot isn't dead. There couldn't be a much more comic booky 'death' than that. Also, the HIVE stuff actually slipped past me during the prison scene. I thought the dialogue was so clumsy but I didn't understand why.

 

I too feel really bad for Roy. The last time I got electrocuted I had a headache for a week.

[calliope1975]

I just had to switch over to The Goldbergs because I wasn't even remotely interested in what I was watching. Maybe I'll finish the rest tonight. Maybe not. I caught the basic gist of everything on Tumblr.

 

For what I did watch, I still love Dyla and their baby is the cutest. SA's still hot unbearably hot in suspenders or shirtless. EBR has really nice abs, and it's a damn shame the EPs are so militant on not suiting her up because she would look amazing. Clearly, her 5 ab reps each morning are paying off. Michael Rowe is still great.

 

Annnnd, that's it. Everything with Ray is such a fail to me that I'm now actively avoiding watching his scenes. I cringed at the wedding stuff with everyone laughing heartily at his "jokes" as he officiated the wedding. That entire scene should have only been about Lyla and Diggle. Then came the press conference. Why the fuck was he there? Why the fuck was he speaking to the press? 

 

I wonder if TIIC thought Ray would be so enthusiastically accepted that all of this would be loved by the audience? That he would be so popular that we'd want to see figure out who the Arrow is and try to take him down. And maybe I'm the one who's out of touch with not responding to him. He vaguely annoyed me and creeped me out before; now, I can't stand him, and it's making me seriously think about whether I want to watch a spinoff where he's involved. 

[InsertWordHere]

When everyone at the wedding started get the exact same text message at the same time with the notifications going off I thought I was watching Pretty Little Liars.

Yeah, that was weird. It wasn't even a text. It was a news article. Did Felicity program all their cell phones to go off anytime the Arrow was mentioned negatively in the press?

 

Oliver implied that he didn't choose not to be with Felicity just so she could choose to be with someone JUST LIKE HIM the implication is she should have honored what he choose for her (not to be with a vigilante specifically), her *agency* was irrelevant to him, and says so much for how much they have fucked up Olicity for me. 

It's not that he took away her agency it's that he doesn't respect the agency she has expressed repeatedly to him, about their relationship and her choice to be with Ray.

 

Antytime the mens get together and decide what precious pedestal women "deserve" it's gross, sorry that's just how it feels to me: GROSS, it's treating them like objects instead of real women who are capable of surviving on their own merits.

Okay, thanks for the response. I thought the poster I was responding to was mostly referring to the conversation between Oliver and Ray after their fight, hence my confusion, because no one decided who Felicity should be with in that conversation. I disagree though that Oliver expressing his disappointment over Ray's lifestyle was Oliver not respecting her agency. The man was hunting him down, not caring that Felicity could very well go down with the Arrow if he gets caught, it doesn't bother me that Oliver was not Ray's biggest fan at that moment or that he was indulging in a bout of self pity. I agree with your last point. I wouldn't call it gross, but it's not a very flattering character trait for anyone. 

[AyChihuahua]

 

Also, I have to say, two thumbs down to Felicity with her "You'd like that, wouldn't you?" when Oliver said that Ray was going to get himself killed.

HOLY CRAP (actually not being snarky here), they got APINKNIGHTMARE to be unhappy with something Felicity did/said!!!  That is a sign of truly screwing up a character!

 

I'm horrified she still wants to date him after he ELECTROCUTED ROY.  Roy has been the best thing about this entire season.

 

Also, still not watching, just keeping up here.  

[quarks]

Well. This is an Arrow milestone: an episode that was better for Laurel than Felicity!  I KNOW.

 

Unlike others here, I thought this episode was ok, barring a few big things that I'll get to. I do, however, wish the spinoff would just get launched already: using these shows to launch the spinoff is really doing Arrow and Flash no favors. Moving on.

 

Good things:

 

1. I know we all like to jump on Arrow for inconsistency, but if Arrow is consistent about nothing else, it holds true to this: everyone but everyone who runs for office in Starling City ends up dead and kidnapped. Bonus points for giving us yet another incompetent city official. Double bonus points: the DA has apparently been on vacation since episode 5. Missing DA, I applaud your life choices here. Stay on vacation. It's safer this way.

 

2. This was like the Adorable Kiddie episode, wasn't it?  Kudos on both small kids - kids of that age are hard to cast and work with (Downton Abbey, we are all looking at you) but I thought the show did a pretty decent job with both kids, as well as the editing cuts in the Deadshot rage scene.

 

3. Shirtless Oliver and shirtless Deadshot? In the same episode? Be still my beating heart.

 

4. The fight with two, then three, then four, then five Arrows. AWESOME.

 

5. Cupid suddenly switching her love from the Arrow to Deadshot. I laughed.

 

6. Thinking that a staged kidnapping is the fast track to the presidency.  This show. I also laughed.

 

7. Oliver taking out Ray's suit with a single well aimed throw.  I cheered.

 

8. I have Thoughts on Ray and Felicity this episode. Not kind thoughts.  But I will say that I liked that Ray immediately worked out that Felicity has been working for Oliver Queen all along.

 

9. I also liked about 98% of the Oliver/Felicity interactions: the stuff I didn't like was, for once, on Felicity. 

 

10. Deadshot! Deadshot! Deadshot!.....whoops.

 

On a related note, though, I really liked that this time, the flashbacks seemed to tell a story and had a point - not merely for Deadshot, but what was getting said about Oliver.  More of this from the flashbacks, show.

 

11. Line of the night, from Roy of all people: "And reckless!"

 

Questionable things:

 

1. We got shirtless Oliver and shirtless Deadshot, but no shirtless Diggle, even though Diggle was the only one of the three actually on his honeymoon? For shame, show, for shame. 

 

2. Count me as another one puzzled that Ray figured out that Laurel is the Black Canary. There really is no reason to assume that Oliver's ex girlfriend is also the costumed woman fighting with the Arrow, and Ray never used his facial recognition system on her. After all, Laurel wasn't the Canary as recently as last year.  That seemed like a big leap.

 

But since Ray did figure that out, may I politely note that if you think that the Arrow is a murderer, and you think that the ADA is helping the Arrow, then MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, this is ALSO A PROBLEM YOU SHOULD BE DEALING WITH instead of focusing on your Oliver grr. I'm not thrilled that I'm more unhappy about an officer of the law moonlighting as a vigilante than Ray is.  

 

3. Just how big WAS that van to let them squeeze that many hostages into it?

 

4. Remember back in the first season when Arrow managed the trick of making it look as if they had new sets for new scenes?  Remember when it at least wasn't sharing sets with a sister show?

 

Ah. Yes. Those were the days.

 

5. I have mixed feelings on Lyla leaving ARGUS. On the one hand, yes, because this really was the last straw, and I liked that she wanted to be able to inspire her daughter.  At the same time - I would have liked this to be just based on the ethics, not tangled up in "our baby deserves parents!"  It was an uneasy followup to the events of last season and her conversation with Oliver back in "The Brave and the Bold."

 

6. I know Amanda Waller has done much worse than ruin an employee's honeymoon, but let's just add that to the long and growing list of why Amanda is the worst.

 

7. Oliver and Diggle's final scene. Oliver, I know you need to move the plot along, but when Diggle says "Anything happen while I was gone?" the correct answer, in your situation, is "Yes, we have a guy flying around in a robot suit that's so badly made I took it out with one shot. Also, he electrocuted Roy." Not "Nothing much."

 

7. My housemate wandered through the room during one of the Ray/Felicity scenes and said, "You know, this would be a good show if it didn't have all this pointless love crap." Speaking of which:

 

Bad things:

 

1. Ray/Felicity.

 

Holy crap.

 

It's not a secret that I haven't been a big fan of this relationship. But I think it's safe to say that, post the wedding, which was cute, this episode sunk it to new lows:

 

a) Ray claiming that he's always been open and honest with Felicity, literally right after he's admitted that he didn't tell her that the flying suit they've been developing works.  And after not telling her that he was going to hold a press conference regarding the Arrow, let alone discussing it with her. This is after not telling her why he bought Queen Consolidated in the first place, after starting to develop the ATOM suit in secret, and so on. All of which would have been fine except that no one, and by no one I mean Felicity, called him on this.

 

One of the greatest things about Felicity is that she has been willing to call Oliver out on his crap. She did so in this episode. But here, she didn't call Ray out on any of his shit. She did defend Oliver, which was great, but overlooked a lot of other problems here.

 

b) On a minor note, Ray just figuring this out even though we've seen Felicity back in the Arrow Cave at night since she and Ray started dating, which leads me to question just how much time they have been spending together.

 

c) At the end of the episode, we have the following: 

 

Felicity has told Ray that she does have feelings for Oliver.

 

Ray has told Felicity that he doesn't trust her or her judgement.

 

Ray knows that Felicity has been engaged in illicit activities for at least one year.

 

Ray has electrocuted one of Felicity's friends.

 

Ray has fought and tried to injure another one of her friends.

 

Ray ended up trusting Oliver, not Felicity.

 

Felicity has once again all but admitted that she'd pick Oliver the second Oliver drops this "I can't be with anyone and protect the city crap."

 

Deadshot, Diggle, Lyla and (to a lesser extent) Maseo and Laurel illustrate Oliver's point.

 

Ray and Felicity end up together.

 

It's like Oliver and Laurel, part two: why are these two even speaking together at the end of the episode?

 

To quote Oliver, and to be in full agreement with him for once: Felicity, you deserve better.

 

2. Felicity:

 

a) Minor note: She's supposedly Ray's VP, not his assistant, right?  So why is she, not his assistant, handling the phone calls to that 800 number that he set up?

 

b) Much bigger note: Telling Oliver that she's the reason he has a problem with Ray. No, Felicity: Oliver has a problem with Ray because Ray just called a press conference where he accused the Arrow of murder and because Ray is flying around the city in a robot suit, creating an added complication just as the League of Assassins are attacking the city.

 

I know what Felicity wants to hear: Oliver admit to her that he's jealous, rather than doing the noble thing of letting her be happy.  But that ignores the rather huge problem in the room: Ray flying around the city.

 

c) In the end, returning to a guy who attacked her friends, trusted Oliver instead of her, and who, frankly, treated her like shit this episode. When Oliver did that, Felicity correctly walked off.  And in this episode, Oliver was, for once, open and honest with her.

 

3. Making the Arrow/Atom fight be at least partly over Felicity, in an episode with plenty of other things to fight about/worry about like Hi League of Assassins.  Deal with your dating life later.

 

4. We lost Deadshot and kept Ray?

 

Are you kidding me?

 

And now, Laurel:

 

Wow. Her hands down best episode of the season: she was intelligent, tough, loyal, and focused on the actual problem, unlike most of the other characters in the episode. And she didn't get kidnapped even once. I still can't quite buy her as a vigilante, but I can for about the first time since early in the first season buy her as someone passionate about justice and innocent people. I even liked her little way of telling Oliver the truth about her training without mentioning Nyssa by name. Please let this not be an aberration.  

[apinknightmare]

HOLY CRAP (actually not being snarky here), they got APINKNIGHTMARE to be unhappy with something Felicity did/said!!!  That is a sign of truly screwing up a character!

 

Oh, believe me - I'm unhappy with a lot of things she's done/said this season, but I don't post about it on here. I just flip my stan switch on posthaste when I see people coming for her, haha. I can't help myself.

Edited March 26, 2015 by apinknightmare

[Lantern7]

I just think Ray is a schmuck with too much money and time. At least he's good as an impromptu minister. Aaaaaaaaaand that's all I have for Ray. I guess I adhere to the canon Atom and his powerset over the ATOM armor. BTW, what does ATOM stand for? I forgot . . .  and there are fewer words to memorize than FIRESTORM over on The Flash.

[apinknightmare]

BTW, what does ATOM stand for?

 

Advanced Technology Operating Mechanism

[wonderwall]

Advanced Technology Operating Mechanism

Or A Train-wreck On Meth (that's why his eyes are so red)

[quarks]

In the spirit of fairness and not turning this forum into an anti-Ray place, I do want to point out that I did like Ray quite a few times during this episode - I thought he was cute at the wedding, and I thought he had a point when he noted to Felicity that her "Oliver hasn't killed anyone in two years" was not exactly a huge selling point in Oliver's favor.  And I thought the scene between him and Laurel was well done - and I genuinely appreciated that Laurel got to use her brains to triumph in that situation.

[Lantern7]

Thanks, guys. Routh is better at being ATOM than Superman. I know, not saying much.

[tennisgurl]

So is this title a reference to making the audience suicidal? 

[steelyis]

I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong, so I will admit Arrow doesn't have a problem with Oliver always defeating more experienced and better trained opponents who are women, clearly Arrow needs Oliver to beat everyone who isn't being propped as the next Big Bad, regardless of how fucking stupid it is for him to do so.

 

Ray should have slaughtered Oliver without breaking a sweat. He should have been able to take Oliver--no, fuck that--he should have been able to take out a hundred Olivers without setting a single foot on the ground. And why even land in the first place? It's called air superiority for a fucking reason, Show! And to reduce the entire confrontation to being about Felicity? WTF? I love Felicity as much as anyone, but that was the dumbest reason to have a hero vs. hero fight. What were they thinking? They did it right with Arrow vs. Flash, so how the fuck did they get it wrong with Arrow vs. Atom?

 

The whole episode should have been about The Suicide Squad.

 

Oh, and after I watched how the Squad took down the politician I turned this piece of garbage off then deleted it from my DVR.

 

Fucking waste of time!

[La Dee Da]

 Everything with Ray is such a fail to me that I'm now actively avoiding watching his scenes. I cringed at the wedding stuff with everyone laughing heartily at his "jokes" as he officiated the wedding. That entire scene should have only been about Lyla and Diggle. Then came the press conference. Why the fuck was he there? Why the fuck was he speaking to the press?

 

That grated my nerves as well!  I get they needed the press conference moment to show Ray in opposition to Oliver but have him call his own press conference or have the mayor appear with him and other concerned community leaders, or have the press ask him a question about the impact on the Star City thing or have him tweet about it (#Atom4justice!).  I know realism is going to be very loose on this show, but no one is going to turn a city press conference over to him so he can say he`ll save the day through his resources.     

 

The officiant stuff was weird - Felicity marrying them would have been a nice team moment and she could have said some on the nose things about love and Oliver could have been all angsty about it.  Good times! 

[NoWayOut]

Also, I have to say, two thumbs down to Felicity with her "You'd like that, wouldn't you?" when Oliver said that Ray was going to get himself killed.

 Yeah, that was extremely uncalled for. I don't believe she meant it with the way she defended him this episode but Felicity tends to say really brutal things when she's upset. Other than that (I think), I actually did enjoy all of O/F scenes.

 

Oliver basically leaving behind a freshly electrocuted Roy will never not be funny.

Edited March 26, 2015 by NoWayOut

[Chaser]

I thought Ray would be better once he started interacting with the other main players. I was wrong. Oh so wrong.

[Xenith22]

Ugh just so much ugh in this episode

 

- Looks like poor Thea did not get invited to Diggle's wedding...that seems sort of rude.

 

- Oliver goes to Ray's office to tell him he did not kill anyone.  Okay cool...but then he just had to make an exit by telling Ray he does not know what the city is up against and storming off making it sound like a threat.  Brilliant move Mr. Queen...surely a much smarter one than maaaaybe trying to actually explain to Ray what the city was up against.

 

- Quentin...where to start.  I just find it hard to believe that Laurel could not have nipped this new anti-vigilante stance in the bud had she just tried to talk to him?  I mean for starters she could take full responsibility for the decision to hide Sarah's death from him and that she forced the Arrow to go along with it.  Second has she tried directly telling him the Arrow did not do it?  She could even say she was with the Arrow at the time the murders were happening elsewhere.  She could also certainly play the card of asking whether her father really thinks she is a murderer or would be working with a murderer.  Meh... For that matter how exactly does he think he is going to declare war on the arrow without Laurel getting caught in the crossfire?  Does he really want another dead daughter?

 

- I know Roy has to be okay...because there is just no way the show writers would be that hypocritical than to have Palmer after a vigilante who kills hurts his prey, and then have Palmer dress up as a vigilante (because I doubt he told the SCPD he was planning on dressing up in a flying suit of armor to take on the Arrow) and use deadly force.  Of course there really is no logical explanation for how he could hit Roy with that much electrical energy that it had that kind of kick and him still be okay...

 

- Also...I gave them the benefit of the doubt that while the ATOM suit looked like a cheap Iron Man knockoff that surely to god it would still possess something shrink/growth or density/mass changing related.  And nope....pffft that was apparently too much to ask for.  They probably thought that would be too unbelievable...as opposed to an flying suit which electrocutes people but somehow manages to not severely burn them or kill them.  That is totally believable.

 

 

Ray should have slaughtered Oliver without breaking a sweat. He should have been able to take Oliver--no, fuck that--he should have been able to take out a hundred Olivers without setting a single foot on the ground. And why even land in the first place? It's called air superiority for a fucking reason, Show!

To be fair this is an suit which Felicity helped design.  I would have been extremely disappointed if Felicity knowing Ray was after him, did not give Oliver some kind of portable EMP or device otherwise capable of hacking and taking down his suit with ease to carry around.  As far as why he landed...it's because Ray is arrogant.  He wanted to rub Oliver's face in the fact that he laid the trap, and he probably also wanted the opportunity to test out his suit in real world combat conditions that a pure unseen ambush would not have provided.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Xenith22

[CabotCove]

Fairly good episode.

 

Cupid and Deadshot were awesome, pity it was short lived. Diggle and Lyla had a good wedding but too short, though they really assassinating Diggle this season, is it any wonder he might be on the chopping block. His opening line was cringeworthy, something that the real Diggle would never stick so low to say. Ray/Felicity/Oliver ping pong triangle was equally as cringeworthy. I'm so tired of Roy just getting the "hit the streets" lines. Liked Laurel and Quentin begrudging working together, at least it was on Q's part.

 

I like the honeybee HIVE lady.

 

If anything, this episode shows how doomed the R/F relationship is.

 

Why is this "breaking news" though, R/F were meant to be temporary since BR is a guest and Ray has been announced to be on the spin off weeks ago.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Conell

[Carrie Ann]

Also, I have to say, two thumbs down to Felicity with her "You'd like that, wouldn't you?" when Oliver said that Ray was going to get himself killed. 

 

Like...when has this dude ever expressed even the slightest bit of animosity that you have a boyfriend? Goodness.

 

I just could not handle how spiteful she was being about it. And it just makes the flirtiness with Oliver less appealing, because it's like, either you really DO want to be with Ray and only Ray or you don't, but at this point, that's no longer Oliver's problem or his fault. So, no putting that shit on him, and no cheek kisses, sorry. Remember last week when we were talking about whether the O/F flirtiness felt off because of Ray? I took the NO position, because the Ray thing felt so casual. But not anymore. If you're going to make Oliver the bad guy both in your non-relationship with him AND in your rilly rilly serious important relationship with Ray? Especially when the reason you think he's the problem is that you know he's in love with you? Then no more flirting with him. That's just blaming him because it's easier than taking responsibility for your own feelings and actions. No more. It is not a good look. 

[paigow]

Quentin and the Mayor were the only people in the room that did not know Oliver = Arrow. Now Quentin thinks Arrow killed the Mayor. Is anyone going to tell him the truth?

Edited March 26, 2015 by paigow

[90 Day Pinochet]

Wow, I never noticed what a cut-up Ray Palmer is until the entire wedding ceremony confirmed it for me. The uproarious laughter annoyed me until I fanwanked that Ray Palmer took a cue from "The Nanny" and never speaks in public without a phalanx of professional laughers in tow.

 

Also, if Ray is a minister, then he is definitely a youth minister.

[Lantern7]

Quentin and the Mayor were the only people in the room that did not know Oliver = Arrow. Now Quentin thinks Arrow killed the Mayor. Is anyone going to tell him the truth?

 

With this show? Not for several episodes.

 

Sorry . . . I just had to.

[apinknightmare]

I took the NO position, because the Ray thing felt so casual. But not anymore. If you're going to make Oliver the bad guy both in your non-relationship with him AND in your rilly rilly serious important relationship with Ray? Especially when the reason you think he's the problem is that you know he's in love with you? Then no more flirting with him. That's just blaming him because it's easier than taking responsibility for your own feelings and actions. No more. It is not a good look. 

 

Yeah, I didn't have a problem with the flirting last week, but the kiss on the cheek? I thought it was mean, bordering on cruel. 

[Password]

Patiently waiting on what reviewers say about this episode.

[dcinmb]

Confusion reigns.

Ladies and Gentlemen....the tagline of this whole season!

 

Confusion reigns because idiots reigned first.

 

Well. This is an Arrow milestone: an episode that was better for Laurel than Felicity!  I KNOW.

 

Exactly what I was going to say. Never thought there'd come an ep where I liked Laurel more than Felicity. And just when I thought the writing couldn't get any worse, MG and his crack writing team manage to surpass themselves. They've pretty much reached BATB levels of bad at this point. It's hard being a left coaster. By the time I get here there's nothing left to be said. Just as well as I'm so annoyed right now I can't even be bothered to string together cogent thoughts about how awful that was.

 

ETA: They need to start paying SA hardship pay for having to sell this unmitigated trainwreck of a season. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by dcinmb

[wonderwall]

I actually sort of agree. I didn't like Felicity kissing Oliver's cheek after she accused him of being shitty towards when he was pretty much being super graceful about it and acting like an adult. Like I said though, I liked most of O/F's interactions this episode. It's just those two moments were off for me because it sort of felt like Felicity was dangling something in front of Oliver only to take it away from him like he did in 3a. Not cool. 

[BkWurm1]

And why exactly is a private citizen/businessman given an opportunity to speak at a law enforcement press conference?

 

Moment number one where Ray annoyed the crap out of me.  The minister at the wedding thing was stupid but not hate worthy, but him just randomly speaking at the Mayor’s press conference was a what the hell moment and completely took me out of the episode.  I suppose Laurel the lowly ADA should have surprised me too but she is what she is.  The only thing I could come up with is Starling has no money and so only does anything really reassure the citizens after some private citizen promises to foot the bill. 

 

I can’t believe he didn’t tell Felicity he got the suit working, and I can’t believe she wasn’t pissed about it. So much for their partnership

 

The only way I can justify it is if she for some reason just assumes he got it to work between the time of the wedding and when he went out for a "test run" and figured out Oliver's identity. And honestly, I can believe that it wouldn't even occur to Felicity that it could have happened any other way and I'm going to assume he never corrects her understanding because while I really don't think she'd really be mad, she would be incredibly hurt.  He had no reason to keep it from her and for him to do so proves to me that he doesn't really understand what true partners are. 

 

 

did Ray have Pink eye? Really looked like it during the Ray/Oliver scene?

 

BR probably did.  Ray, well he was crying cause Felicity loves Oliver. 

10eleven12

Felicity seems really lost to me right now. Like she knows what she wants but it keeps getting slapped away from her so she is just reaching and floundering.  I didn't see her so much as acting out of character, but as someone who is just really sad. I don't even know how to describe or if I could even put it into words.

 

So much this.  I think she's thrown herself headfirst into making this thing with Ray work.  Deep down I think she needs it to work to disprove Oliver's pigheadedness but I doubt she's analyzed it that deeply. 

I liked the bookends of cute Oliver/Diggle scenes.

 

Honestly it made me a little sad since it reemphasizes to me just how much Felicity is no longer a part of that inner circle anymore.  :(

 

I mean, Felicity said to Oliver, "You never wanted me to be with him!" all snide and bitter. Wow. WOWWWWWW. And then she ends the episode kissing his goddamn cheek. I mean. What is happening here.

 

Her lashing out reminded me of all the frustration, disappointment and anger she is still dealing with.  She thinks she's moved on but clearly there is a lot simmering under there.  By the end of the episode she was able to tell herself that things were back to being  normal (as possible) and thus her regular good humor is back.  Plus I truly think she is feeling safer in expressing her affection for Oliver more openly since she's telling herself she's with Ray. 

 

Then again, I also don't think Felicity was a pod person  either. So I'm clearly in the minority on the board.

 

I don't think she was acting like a pod person. She was acting stressed and agitated and a tiny bit manic but given the circumstances I didn't find it unexplainable. 

 

Oliver implied that he didn't choose not to be with Felicity just so she could choose to be with someone JUST LIKE HIM the implication is she should have honored what he choose for her (not to be with a vigilante specifically), her *agency* was irrelevant to him, and says so much for how much they have fucked up Olicity for me.

 

 

Oliver IMO thinks he not being with her is to her benefit and how dare she not follow his script?!  It's good to shake him up.

 

Ray, you might want to rethink your vigilante ambitions if your suit can so easily be taken out by a...what was it Oliver threw? A knife?

 

I assume it was an electro magnetic pulse to knock out at least temporarily Rays power. 

[CabotCove]

Love ya Diggle! It's a good thing Lyla quit ARGUS because Diggle quitting Team ARROW is not an option for me. Aww baby Sara is adorable.

 

I dont think they made a trade off, Lyla seemed to have quit for her own reasons.  I didnt hear Digs saying he had changed his mind.

 

The whole reason Ray was supposed to be a better option than Oliver was because he was more emotionally available and he was a team player so Felicity didn't get shut out.  But it's not true, he's not telling her that the suit she worked on for months is now functioning and he's stopped taking her advice.  Also, he electrocuted poor Roy who was just trying to help people.

And now Felicity is a doormat because she's going back to him and the one to apologize.  Don't they know they just stuck a spike into Raylicity, and into any Arrow viewers who might want to follow him to the new spin-off?

 

 

Felicity doesnt want a perfect human being, she likely just wants someone who will listen and correct themselves when they have gone too far. And thats what she got at the end of this episode from Ray. Ray is not a perfect character, who is. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by Conell

[Actionmage]

Ray, you might want to rethink your vigilante ambitions if your suit can so easily be taken out by a...what was it Oliver threw? A knife?

 

I thought it was his darts, the ones he keeps on his forearms and legs. Ray wasn't paying attention and it cost him.