S11.E16: Don't Dream It's Over

[Nobodysfan]

I really am shocked at how much I'm liking Maggie and how much I'm liking how they've integrated her into the show.  Rarely does a new character really work for me. Amelia was/is a bomb.  Terrible. Take her away.  I'm still meh sometimes on April, but she's been around so long that I've just accepted her. The newbies (Jo and Stephanie) are whatever--- plot devices basically.  Lexie never felt "in" with the group, and was more of a Mark thing than a Mer thing.  But Maggie? I'm feeling her.  I really am.  Last night kinda cemented it for me. She felt right in the tunnel with them, and that hug between her and Richard was really touching. I'm invested in her now. 

 

But why didn´t she have that CT taken and have herself examined when she felt dizzy??? That´s hazardous.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[CleoCaesar]

It is NOT just like Derek and Addison.  Derek leaving after he walked in on his wife sleeping with his best friend, is not "getting out when things got hard." I think you can effectively say that the marriage was DONE at that point. Addison and Mark even conceived a child as a result. Derek was "married" by paper only, by the time he met Meredith. He was separated from his former wife and living as far away as possible from her without leaving the frigging county. SO not "cheating."

 

Well, okay, but prom sex was DEFINITELY cheating. Derek had legally and outwardly recommitted to his marriage, and still fucked Meredith in the on-call room. So Derek was indeed a cheater. I don't think he's cheating NOW, but it's not impossible for him as a character (because he's done it before).

[Tuleh2]

 

Derek just up and leaving, moving across the county without even talking about it does show a pattern of "leaving when it gets hard".

Where's the pattern? Are you comparing him moving to DC with him leaving Addison? Meredith TOLD HIM to go to DC (in no uncertain terms). She didn't seem terribly "insecure about their relationship" then, nor since he's been gone (how many times has she blown off visiting him?)

[Greysaddict]

Where's the pattern? Are you comparing him moving to DC with him leaving Addison? Meredith TOLD HIM to go to DC (in no uncertain terms). She didn't seem terribly "insecure about their relationship" then, nor since he's been gone (how many times has she blown off visiting him?)

No, I am not comparing the two...I even said the situations were completely different.  I just don't believe that Shonda is re-writing history by having Meredith say he's done this before.  I am not even comparing Derek and Addison's marriage to Derek and Meredith.  Meredith did tell him to go, hell she practically forced him to go.  

[windsprints]

I'm also confsued by Meredith's statement, as she also told him to go. Twice. Once pissed off and the other time in good terms. Did she also forget that? Yeah, Derek left on a whim, but he offered to come home. She said no and then started going to airport hotels on weekends. When will she see her role in this? Never.

 

 

Meredith will ignore her part in the equation entirely. She already has and I doubt it will ever be brought up other than maybe a passing sentence. 

 

I agree that sleeping with Meredith wasn't "cheating", but he and Addison had to be having marital issues before she slept with Mark.  You don't just have sex with your husband's best friend if you have a good, happy marriage.  While I think what Addison did was unforgivable, Derek just up and leaving, moving across the county without even talking about it does show a pattern of "leaving when it gets hard".

 

I remember a conversation where Derek and Addison talked about it and they seemed to agree that they both got busy with their careers and got lazy with their marriage. It may or may not have been fixable (if both wanted that) but sleeping with Mark threw any hope out the window IMO.  At that point I don't think it was "hard "for Derek, it was over for Derek. He moved, got a new job and purchased land. If Addison didn't come to Seattle he wouldn't have gone back and the marriage would have been done. 

 

I think Derek temporarily leaves when it gets hard. We've seen him stomp away throughout the series but its more of a sulking/cool off period.  I don't see this situation as that even. 

 

ETA: Agree, he did cheat after he was supposedly trying in his marriage.  If you can call it trying. I never though he was at all committed and was emotionally completely checked out the entire time.

Edited March 20, 2015 by windsprints

[bikebrh]

On a totally crude and shallow note I gotta say that motherhood has done wonders for Sarah Drew's cleavage.

[AnitaM86]

I just don't believe that Shonda is re-writing history by having Meredith say he's done this before.

To be honest, Shonda does tend to rewrite history when it's convenient. I did think she attempted to do that here to make him sort of the party at fault because of something that happened with his first marriage that has nothing to do with the other. Obviously, Meredith is escaping the details (that matter) and her role in it. 

 

If you can call it trying. I never though he was at all committed and was emotionally completely checked out the entire time.

 

He seemed halfway to me. Sometimes he was, sometimes he wasn't. When there were only Derek & Addison scenes, he did seemed pretty in. The thing is that Derek was like the dog from Up, Meredith being the squirrel when her name was remotely mentioned. 

 

I also agree: Prom sex was all sorts of adultery cheating that exists. That one has no justification. 

 

I think Derek temporarily leaves when it gets hard. We've seen him stomp away throughout the series but its more of a sulking/cool off period.  I don't see this situation as that even.

I think this is accurate. He always has a period of brooding when things get difficult and some physical separation. His trailer drunk party, sleeping in the dreamhouse after the trial revelations. I would think this is a more accurate description of his pattern of separation than the "marriage hard, need to go". It doesn't has to be related to his personal relationships but general failures he has made. 

 

She didn't seem terribly "insecure about their relationship" then, nor since he's been gone (how many times has she blown off visiting him?)

 

I don't think she even cared about his absence that much. We only got a mention of how hard it was to sleep without him but that was it. No mention of how his absence was affecting the kids, or how she missed him, or anything. Just that she was on a streak and happy to be without him for a while. I'm not sure how we will see how Derek dealt with the separation and I'll reserve judgment until then. 

[RedheadZombie]

The fake Alzheimer's patient made me sooo mad. WTF what a selfish piece of shit! His wife had to deal with 5 years of him supposedly having Alzheimer's and he is complaining about his pain? What in the world? He wasn't of sound mind. It is not like he got drunk and drove. How ridiculous. If I were the wife, well I would be upset I married such an asshat...but I would have him declared incompetent and would force him to have the surgery. Ugh!

 

I was bothered by this SL.  There's no way that he could have made a sound judgment after becoming lucid after five years, and discovering he killed a pregnant woman.  The wife had every right to wait for him to become confused, then sign the consent.  It's too much like a person refusing to take their psych meds, so they can plead insanity in court.  It wasn't his intention, but he's blowing off any sanction he might have received from the court.  Also, if this guy is capable of getting out there and working, will he continue to get disability because he choses not to?  Too many questions

 

- Callie and Alex being buddies, with her popping food into his mouth (then I remember that they slept together once and get amused that they still have some incest in the group).

 

I missed this.  What season?

 

Loved April/Jackson, I'm so glad that the death of their baby doesn't seem to rip them apart. Jackson is really sweet with her. And April really changed her way of dealing with a crisis, she seems way more mature imo.

 

I really like those two.  I just saw the episode in season seven where April and Alex almost had sex, and Alex was such an impatient asshole with her.  I loved seeing Jackson enraged and beating the crap out of him.

 

ETA - I forgot to add that I must give a shout out to Sarah Drew's post-pregnancy body, especially her boobs! Damn, she looked good and kudos to her for agreeing to a sex scene!

 

Me too!  SD looked great, and seemed happy to show her nursing boobs.  Cute bra.

[LakeLover]

I imagine Patrick was all those things in real life. He had just gotten off a plane from racing in Florida and his marriage imploded in his face three days earlier.

Eta sorry, I'm on my phone and am responding to the post about Derek/Patrick looking beat.

Edited March 20, 2015 by LakeLover

[KaveDweller]

I can't help thinking that if I was cheating on my husband, I'd make sure my boyfriend / lover didn't pick up my cell phone or would ask him to check the Caller ID and if it's my husband, let it go to voice mail. 

 

Who answers someone else's phone like that anyway? Because she didn't just answer, she answered then hung up.  When Callie and Maggie were coming up with people who answered, I couldn't think of one that made sense.  Everyone they suggested would have responded when Meredith asks who it was.  If they work with Derek, and she asked if he was in the lab, wouldn't they have said yes? Or that he was in surgery? It implies that whatever happened with her and Derek, she wants Meredith to think there's something going on.

[hoosiermom]

Who is/was "McHottie"? Jackson?

. I think it was the Veterinarian Mer dated while she was waiting for Der to leave Addison. He took her to the "prom". Edited March 21, 2015 by hoosiermom

[BC Mama]

 

The explanation about the why  re:streak obsession made Stephanie more sympathetic in my eyes, too.

 .

I missed that! What was the explanation?

[kingshearte]

Seriously why is this hospital so dark, I can't take it anymore. If you watch the first season, the ORs are all normal and well lit. Now they're pitch black. It's so freaking weird.

This is my biggest pet peeve with almost every show that's on today. I know we always used to mock that bluish light that was meant to indicate that it was dark, but at least you could see what was going on in those days. Now, everything is always dark and moody and impossible to see if you have any lights on in your own room. So annoying.

 

I enjoyed the scene where Arizona was first trying to talk to Callie about Heather, because it was such a classic example of why their marriage didn't work. Callie assumed she knew what Arizona was trying to say and kept cutting her off.

Agreed. They each have their flaws, but one of Callie's big ones is this, and she's never going to have a successful relationship if she keeps doing it.

 

I missed that! What was the explanation?

That being around so much death is still new and hard for the residents, so they tend to obsess over stuff like this streak of Meredith's. It was in the Alex/Bailey scene in the NICU right after Jo left.

 

I did like this episode better than pretty much any this season. The medical drama wasn't too far over the top, there were some nice callbacks to early seasons (the tunnel scene especially), and some really nice character moments and interactions from a bunch of people. And Jason George, man. I loved his face last week, and his insistent throat clearing this week was also kind of priceless. When he's the focus, he's fine, but he really speaks to the idea that real acting is done when your character is not talking, and is reacting to what's going on around them. His reactions are becoming a show highlight for me.

[CED9]

Agreed. They each have their flaws, but one of Callie's big ones is this, and she's never going to have a successful relationship if she keeps doing it.

To me, her NICU rant felt less like cutting Arizona off again (which was maybe a small part of it) and more trying to convince herself that her decision was still the right one.

Her main reason for approaching Arizona about the mom was her assumption that Arizona is still stuck in this place of not being able to cope. Not realizing that Arizona's lack of ability to cope in the context of their relationship came from Callie co-opting or just being generally overbearing.

She ended their relationship because she was under the assumption that Arizona needed her more than wanted her, and now she's almost caught off guard that Arizona doesn't need her in that capacity. I think it bothers her.

[DropTheSoap]

My only thoughts on this episode were:

- why is Jo holding that glove to her face, wasn't it just in dead-lady gore

And

- I'm so glad they don't have Callie ruttinv with Owen in the on-call rooms

[runforcover]

I can't even with this show anymore, because even with a relatively strong episode like this one, all I can do is be distracted by the fact that it's a miracle anyone survives in a hospital where all the surgeons are OPERATING IN THE DARK.

Seriously why is this hospital so dark, I can't take it anymore. If you watch the first season, the ORs are all normal and well lit. Now they're pitch black. It's so freaking weird.

Dude, I KNOW!

It's just teeth and shadows.

 

you should watch the first season, again.  It's starch bright like Heaven. Very weird.

 

I think the crazy dark lighting is another feature of Recent Quality Drama, a la Broadchurch music swelling constantly.

Pleez,  this show's script was written in ketchup. Either be garbage or be your C level of awesome self.  

Don't confuse me with the sparkly lights of rapidly featured pet scans against the ticking of MD brainz-z-z-z-.

 

BAD

Edited March 21, 2015 by runforcover

[Nobodysfan]

ZZZZZZZ.

How fucking selfish was that NotAlzheimers patient? Douchenozzle! "Wah, reality is too hard for me, you can deal with my shit, wifey. KayThnxBye"

I was never a fan of Cristina and Owen, but at least that had some build up. Amelia and Owen are thrown together all u subtly and haphazardly. It is distracting.

I'm not sure what the long term Callie/Arizona payoff will be, and I am not sure I care.

Even Jo and Alex are boring.

This used to be a sexy show with some medical drama thrown in. These days there is very little sexy fun (and no! People grinding and macking on each other is not sexy), and there is very little actual medical drama of the believable type. I mean, the pregnant woman dying and then and only then do the doctors have this amazing thought of trying to save the baby? Come ON!!

 

Why do you think we haven´t seen OA do it? Is there a reason? Is there a slight hope we won´t ever see them do it and they won´t hook up?

Don´t you think it was Amelia who was more disappointed she couldn´t have Owen right there the first time?

Edited March 21, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[ChicksDigScars]

One more thing I wanted to add....Patrick may have been in this episode for all of 30 seconds, but wow he really looked sad, exhausted (maybe a little guilty) and like he had just flown 5 hrs across the county.  It's such a small, simple scene but I thought it was executed well.

 

Well, Patrick has done that "show emotion without saying a word" REALLY well from Day One. His eyes get watery on command and he does this thing with his eyebrows that can convey anger, guilt, vulnerability, exhaustion or lust in those baby blues with little effort. 

 

Another thing, I saw a few minutes of that 80's teen rom-com "Cant Buy Me Love" one day recently. So bad. Anyway, do you think he's had a nose job? Not only was his hair in geek form back then, but he seemed to have a much longer nose. Who knew that kid on the lawn mower would have "sex symbol" next to his name for a show that's run 11 years now.

[WearyTraveler]

Unpopular opinion:  I don't think Dempsey is hot  (please don't shoot me!)

[lampshades]

Well, Patrick has done that "show emotion without saying a word" REALLY well from Day One. His eyes get watery on command and he does this thing with his eyebrows that can convey anger, guilt, vulnerability, exhaustion or lust in those baby blues with little effort. 

 

Another thing, I saw a few minutes of that 80's teen rom-com "Cant Buy Me Love" one day recently. So bad. Anyway, do you think he's had a nose job? Not only was his hair in geek form back then, but he seemed to have a much longer nose. Who knew that kid on the lawn mower would have "sex symbol" next to his name for a show that's run 11 years now.

 

I always thought he had a nose job - it also looks a lot narrower at the tip then it used to.

[MerDerFan4Ever]

Well, Patrick has done that "show emotion without saying a word" REALLY well from Day One. His eyes get watery on command and he does this thing with his eyebrows that can convey anger, guilt, vulnerability, exhaustion or lust in those baby blues with little effort. 

 

Another thing, I saw a few minutes of that 80's teen rom-com "Cant Buy Me Love" one day recently. So bad. Anyway, do you think he's had a nose job? Not only was his hair in geek form back then, but he seemed to have a much longer nose. Who knew that kid on the lawn mower would have "sex symbol" next to his name for a show that's run 11 years now.

Exactly! The rest of the episode was sort of "so so" to me. It had it's bright spots. I loved the scene in the basement where Callie said "Team MerDer"! That was awesome! Everything else was kind of boring to me. However, that 30 second scene at the end when PD/Derek FINALLY returned made the entire show for me!!! The past 6 weeks without him have been horrible imo so I am really looking forward to this show finding it's footing again!

[mojito]

I liked that they showed Wilson breaking down. You gotta believe that even the most seasoned surgeon can break down at any given day because of stress, hormones, unexpectedly getting wrapped up in a case, current experiences in his/her personal life, etc.

 

Welcome back old Bailey and old Meredith. Where have you been?

 

I've always been lukewarm about Alex, but he's made a nice progression. He's not nearly as insensitive as he used to be, but he's still a kind of a clueless man:

 

When Meredith was describing the woman on the phone, he was asking, "You saw her?" You'd think by now he'd understand what Meredith meant, but that's who Alex is, still somewhat obtuse. I like that he wasn't changed to Mr. Sensitivity. He's still confounded by girlspeak. I liked when, after Meredith explained that it was in the woman's voice, Maggie said, "I hate that voice". Kind of funny that the woman had lots of gray hair. It sort of speaks to what Meredith thinks Derek would be attracted to.

 

When Maggie and Richard were having that moment and Richard sternly told Maggie to get that CT scan, I expected her to jokingly say, "Yes, Daddy" because of how fatherly he sounded.

[Rae Spellman]

 

Kind of funny that the woman had lots of gray hair. It sort of speaks to what Meredith thinks Derek would be attracted to.

 

I thought she said great hair. Kind of like how Derek has lots of great hair.

[WearyTraveler]

I thought she said great hair. Kind of like how Derek has lots of great hair.

That's what I heard too.  Maybe it was a typo from the OP?

[mojito]

No, it must be my hearing. I played it back a couple of times, and it still sounded like "gray" but then I saw the captions and the word was "great". I think Meredith was just talking fast and not enunciating enough for my ears!

[againstthewind]

Music directors have been binging on Ed Sheeran's X. Thought for sure they'd go with Afire Love since it is actually about Alzheimers.

Edited March 23, 2015 by againstthewind

[Palomar]

To be honest, I was always surprised that Meredith ended up forgiving Derek originally when he didn't bother to mention he was still married when they first got together.  He's been a jerk from time to time since then...just when you start to like him, it comes out.  And since he figures Mer 'made' him take the job, would not be surprised if he was not only cheating but not feeling all that bad about it.

[questionfear]

THANK YOU. It's bad enough that Meredith is dark, twisty and completely bitchy, now, but what's with the lighting? Did they lose all the light bulbs in the whole Pegasus debacle?

 

 

Dude, I KNOW!

It's just teeth and shadows.

 

you should watch the first season, again.  It's starch bright like Heaven. Very weird.

 

I think the crazy dark lighting is another feature of Recent Quality Drama, a la Broadchurch music swelling constantly.

Pleez,  this show's script was written in ketchup. Either be garbage or be your C level of awesome self.  

Don't confuse me with the sparkly lights of rapidly featured pet scans against the ticking of MD brainz-z-z-z-.

 

BAD

So glad someone else is noticing this too. But it's always been a little bit unrealistically dark. When my son was born and my wife was having a C-section, my first comment when i walked into the OR was "Wow, this is way brighter than on Grey's Anatomy!"

[AnitaM86]

And since he figures Mer 'made' him take the job, would not be surprised if he was not only cheating but not feeling all that bad about it.

Personally, I think that if he wasn't feeling bad about it, that he wouldn't have returned at all. After all, he would be justifying it by that, why return? Because he got caught? He could've made up a lie if he wasn't feeling bad about it. I don't believe this line of thinking goes with what's happening.

[Nobodysfan]

The scene where they all waited for ages when the poor woman died until sb figured out that there might be a baby to save gives me creeps. Who gave these docs a degree in medicine???

 

She-shepherd covered her pregnant belly like it´s done (no wonder, she could not figure out that Herman suffered a stroke either,resident had to tell her  - I would never want to be operated by this Neuro Chief only if I wanted to be dead or blind) and Jo asks why they are doing CPR???? Both are a disgrace to medicine. Amelia is a lost case (not even a million superhero poses will help her improve) but Jo has some potential,but please, study,study,study.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[Clanstarling]

April and Jackson--- ugggh. I'm not a hater for them, but it's way out of character, imo, for April to be acting this way. I was wondering if she was ovulating or something and trying to get pregnant.

I think it being out of character is the point. Grief manifests itself in many ways, and often in out of character behavior.

I was glad, though, when Jackson finally said it had been two months. Because I was cringing based on my own experiences.

I was practically yelling at the TV screen after the pregnant woman died - that pause, and especially Amelia's covering her belly back up, was just idiotic. No real doctor would have even paused before starting up with a C section to save that baby. 35 weeks is early, but not terribly by today's standards. My grown daughter was born at 36 weeks, a bit small but otherwise healthy.

[WalrusGirl]

I missed this. What season?

(Re Callie and Alex having slept together.) It was back before she met George (but after the Heart in the Elevator episode), so sometime between episodes 2x05: Bring the Pain and 2:19: What Have I Done to Deserve This?

But it didn't really "happen" until it was basically retconned in in 6x15: The Time Warp. (The Ellis/Richard/AIDS flashback episode.) Callie was nervously giving her talk about a case she worked on once, with Alex as her intern, and she thought that he was Heart In The Elevator guy. He eventually came clean, and/but they ended up celebrating their case by hooking up. (Arizona looked really awkward when Callie mentioned how "we really celebrated that night," and she's the one who pushed Alex to help stammering Callie out from the audience, since he knew the case, so she may not have already known that her wife had once slept with her protege.)

http://youtu.be/Ug5W__MT0bI

When I rewatched the early seasons on Netflix, I never noticed Alex and Callie actually meeting (which would have been after she met George, so after they hooked up), so I don't think there was anything to contradict the retcon. (Callie even told him "cone of silence" in the flashback to account for it never having come up.)

[Nobodysfan]

I was practically yelling at the TV screen after the pregnant woman died - that pause, and especially Amelia's covering her belly back up, was just idiotic. No real doctor would have even paused before starting up with a C section to save that baby. 35 weeks is early, but not terribly by today's standards. My grown daughter was born at 36 weeks, a bit small but otherwise healthy.

 

Idiotic, right? Always wonder whether she knows what a scalpel is for. Even if you are a neuro specialty, for god´s sake this is basic medicine to know that the baby still can be saved and she is covering the belly and they all are standing there like a bunch of morons. How did Bailey even get to this terrible clique? In previous epis,in the scenes with Maggie and Meredith on cases, they were all three of them fantastic doctors.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[izabella]

Personally, I think that if he wasn't feeling bad about it, that he wouldn't have returned at all. After all, he would be justifying it by that, why return? Because he got caught? He could've made up a lie if he wasn't feeling bad about it. I don't believe this line of thinking goes with what's happening.

 

If he's cheating, I think he's feeling bad about it.  Not bad enough to NOT cheat, but certainly bad enough to want to talk with Meredith in person about the trouble their marriage and their family is in.  He would feel bad if for no other reason than Zola and Bailey, but I'm sure his feelings for Meredith didn't just vanish.

[LeGrandElephant]

Haven't they known that you can save a baby in that situation since, like, Julius Ceasar? It's not exactly cutting edge medical knowledge ;-)

I couldn't figure out why they waited so long to start getting the baby out. It was bizarre. Did they have to technically declare her dead first or something?

[WalrusGirl]

I couldn't figure out why they waited so long to start getting the baby out. It was bizarre. Did they have to technically declare her dead first or something?

I would guess they did, since she wasn't under anesthesia or an epidural. Normally we see this situation (on the show) in the OR, where Mom is under general anesthesia so they can take the baby as Mom is dying and they're still engaging in efforts to resuscitate. I don't know how it plays out in real ERs, but I'd like to think that Mom would have to either be anesthetized or legally declared deceased before they could start an emergency c-section.

I was just sort of thrown by the lengthy pause (misguided moment of silence?) between declaring her and then starting to take the baby. I think it was just intended to surprise the viewer when they could still save the baby. It really just made us think they were too dumb or oblivious to have thought to save the baby, which made absolutely no sense for Arizona.

[Bort]

Dude, every time I see this thread, the Crowded House song pops into my head of its own volition.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Me too!

[Greysaddict]

I was just sort of thrown by the lengthy pause (misguided moment of silence?) between declaring her and then starting to take the baby. I think it was just intended to surprise the viewer when they could still save the baby. It really just made us think they were too dumb or oblivious to have thought to save the baby, which made absolutely no sense for Arizona.

 

you know, when i first saw the episode I also thought this.  As other posters mentioned, the mother was far enough along that the baby was virtually full term.  After thinking about it, I think the huge pause wasn't because the doctors didn't think of the idea but rather to convey the "shock" of her death and how the woman pretty much died 2 minutes after she was fully awake and talking.  Is this realistic? no probably not...but when is Grey's known for reality.