S01.E11: S01.E11: Die But Once / S01.E12: Who I Am

[Dee]

Lucious charming the pants off Carol amused me to no end.

[SnarkKitty]

Still coming down off that rush.

Rundown:

* Loved the gifts and speeches. Especially Cookie's. Ha!
* Didn't love the brothers - mainly Hakeem - flipping with no real provocation, against Jamal.
* Loved Lucious' speech to Jamal & their song together
* Didn't love Lee Daniels working out his demons in said speech.
* Loved Lucious' changed diagnosis (didn't see that coming),  and his laugh afterwards
* Didn't love the way Lucious treated Cookie all episode.
* Loved Jamal being his father's son with no hesitation and pulling a Red on the balcony.
* Didn't love Jamal's rap turn and do-rag, ugh. (But worth the good laugh when I made a disparaging noise and the fam all commented that they knew I would hate that look, ha, they know me!)
* Loved that it was a two part/hour finale, it was a lot at once but damn if the ride wasn't good as hell.
* Didn't love the wrap up just showing everyone moving on, Hakeem singing, sonogram, Jamal apparently able to run the business just like that, Cookie settling into the mansion, but no scene (scene drop!) of them talking about what to do with Lucious off to jail.
* Loved Jamal and dude on the desk - hot and a first for network TV!
* Didn't love Cookie teaming up to blindside Jamal. WTF, Cookie?? Can't the boy have two parents for him at any given time??

* Love how they finally fulfilled their Dynasty agenda - Cookie/Anika was a Krystal vs Alexis Carrington moment if ever there was one.
* Confused at why J-Hud was going to do a gospel album, then was singing a song about turning up while sparkly asses twerked in front of her. Didn't realize she sold all the way out.
* DWIGHT???
* Bet a bunch of people flock to Hustle & Flow during Empire withdrawal.

We let you slide this time, but you have to do better, Empire. We won't be so easy on you next season! *quiet voice:::next season::: *sob* Oh, and give us some Jurnee, dammit!

[Artsda]

 

I get that Lucious is horrible but I swear his kids act like he owes them his company and his money. They have all benefited greatly from his riches. If they so detest him why don't they cut all ties (including the financial benefits) and make it on their own. They all want to go hard at him while living off his wealth and connections.

ITA. What is Hakeem acting like he's owed Empire over? He's a teenager, has he finished highschool? He's done nothing to earn the business. Lucious has given him everything and all he does is act like a brat. Andre's worked for the company, but from his own mouth he said "the Wharton education you paid for."  Lucious paid 3/4 of a hundred thousand dollars for his education. He pays for their homes/cars etc... They all act like entitled brats and are owed everything Lucious worked for and his bank account too. 

 

Cookie wasn't better at the end going and squatting herself in Lucious's house. Jamal should kick her out. I really hope season 2 has all of them except Jamal being cut off.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Artsda

[aradia22]

I had more fun with these two episodes than I've had with the show since the first couple episode (maybe 4 or 5) of the season.

 

Anika/Hakeem is crazy. I don't know who's more messed up for that.

 

The gifts. So Jamal gets freedom. Andre gets a purpose. And Jamal gets recognition and power. And that pillow for Cookie? THIS SHOW. :D

[jhlipton]

Rhonda didn't murder Vernon.  She hit him in defense of her husband and Vernon died.  That's manslaughter at best, and probably not even that.  And they have plenty of evidence that Vernon was fighting Andre.  I just think Rhonda swallowed the same idiot pill as the Keating 5 minus 1 on HTGAWM.

 

Loved both eps,and while I would have been OK with Andre getting support from the church, his initial statement that God filled up the darkness made me go "Oh, they aren't going have him cured by the Holy Spirit?"  So glad that's not the path they took!

[Mya Stone]

Malik Yoda revealed today that the producers told him his services would not be required in Season 2 and that he was being killed off.  So, he's not getting up off that carpet, probably wrapped in it and transported to the Berkshires.

If that's the case, I'm putting together a search party (once the snow melts, of course) since that's where I live. ;)

[Queena]

Can we please call the city that Empire is filmed in by it's real name. Chicago! I get so tired of them calling my city NYC. No offense to NYC, and I hear it's great, but there's no place like the Chi. You can't mistake the buildings, signs, grass, hell even the concrete.

Now that I've thought about it, Cookie, and Hakeem are both very wrong for not supporting Jamal. Especially Cookie. We know that Andre has always felt as if he was entitled to run Empire, but Cookie...come on.

Once again, Lulu! Lucious had to not hear that!

I think that TH sang in that key on purpose for that song with Jamal/Jussie. I think it was used to highlight the angel/good evil/devil aspect of Father and son. Either way, I loved it! This is Timbaland's best music in years.

JHud isn't the greatest actress, and her singing gets on my nerves. I was ready to call the TV medical licensing board on her ass for last episode, but damn if she didn't do her thing on that song with Juicy J! It's on heavy rotation!

I wonder if TH had it in his contract not to perform much, and Jamal and Hakeem had it in theirs to perform every episode. I would love to see more of the old Lucious Lyon performances. What made him famous.

Can't TPH sing? I know she sang in Hustle and Flow (I don't think I've ever watched that movie. I don't like TH), will she sing more?

Lastly, damn you Empire for making like TH just a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, bit. I've spent years avoiding everything that he appears in. Because of TPH, I watched Empire, and I stayed because of Jamal. I don't think Cookie is particularly bright. After Wednesday night, I fucking love the shit out of Lucious. He made amends, and I really think that he means right by Jamal. Please redeem Cookie.

[SnarkKitty]

Can we please call the city that Empire is filmed in by it's real name. Chicago! I get so tired of them calling my city NYC. No offense to NYC, and I hear it's great, but there's no place like the Chi. You can't mistake the buildings, signs, grass, hell even the concrete.

 

Co-sign ... 'cause I hate them trying to pass Chicago off as NYC! No offense to Chicago and I hear it's great, but there's no place like the NYC. You can't mistake the buildings, the streets, signs or the people. :)

 

Both our cities are cool, but they will never be mistaken for the other, no matter how much off-centered filming they do. 

 

[Telechy]

 

The gifts. So Jamal gets freedom. Andre gets a purpose. And Jamal gets recognition and power. And that pillow for Cookie? THIS SHOW. :D

 

That was one of my favorite bizarro moments. It was very Wizard of Oz/kingly, how Lucious--who never seemed to understand or respect his sons beyond how they reflected him back to himself or furthered his goals--suddenly seemed to have this deep insight into what made them tick. Being Lucious, though, I wonder if the "gifts" don't also have the seeds of their destruction. Lucious gave Hakeem a plane, but he also gave him symbolic freedom, and as we've seen, Hakeem doesn't have the most mature judgement when it comes to friends, lovers, and songs. He gave Andre something he could run for himself and that's connected to his newfound spirituality, but is Andre, who lives for business, going to be satisfied running around to donor dinners? How will Rhonda feel about getting shunted off to wine-and-dine circuit? And Jamal....oh my sweet Jamal, I'm so afraid for you. Jamal got power, but he also got the validation he's craved all his life, and by the end of the episode he was already showing a LOT of confidence in his ability to make decisions even with 0 experience in the business. I'm afraid this could turn out badly for him.

 

(On a more practical note with the gifts, how fantastic is it to be rich, so you can find somebody on a day's notice to make you lion-headed scepter, buy you a plane, and sew a tiny replica death pillow?)

 

Rhonda didn't murder Vernon.  She hit him in defense of her husband and Vernon died.  That's manslaughter at best, and probably not even that.  

 

The funny thing is, Rhonda not only inadvertently did Lucious a huge favor, but she's now technically the second biggest thug in the Lyon family. Neither Jamal nor Cookie managed to take down their victims. Maybe Lucious will have more than two words for her at the next family gathering.

 

Loved both eps,and while I would have been OK with Andre getting support from the church, his initial statement that God filled up the darkness made me go "Oh, they aren't going have him cured by the Holy Spirit?"

 

I'm with you on that, because they did such a good job presenting manic-depression as a physical illness that can be managed with treatment, and distinct from the other problems Andre has in his life. Spirituality seemed like a promising thing for him to explore since he was feeling burned out and hollow from his relentless pursuit of the prize, and I'm sorry he bailed on it just because Devil Lucious seduced JHud away from the church (if that's what happened). With all the "Lucious is God/Lucious is Jesus" references I was thinking for a while that Lee Daniels was taking it in that direction, which would have been fine but late in the game to introduce a supernatural/Christian framework for the whole thing. What I think is that to the extent the show is about the corrupting effect of the industry, power and money, he's going to all the wells for imagery that expresses that--Shakespeare, Machiavelli, the Bible. I LOVE that aspect of the show, and I love my favorite montage in the last 5 years of TV history: two shirtless black men going to town on top of a mogul's desk while JHud belts out a gospel tune surrounded by the Solid Gold Praise Dancers and a woman tries to smother her murderous ex-husband with a pillow. Lee Daniels, you have grabbed the HOH SHIT crown from Game of Thrones, and I hope you never give it back!

Edited March 20, 2015 by Telechy

[Jazzy24]

I loved it the songs the twists and turns.

I'm glad Anika didn't fie I like her.

And the writers do need to slow some stories down everything happens pretty fast but most of the time I like it.

[Gigi43]

Re: Anika and Hakeem... I think on Hakeems part Lucious set that up. The previous episode he sent Camilla away AND outted he slept with Olivia. Doesn't matter Jamal wasn't attracted to her, especially to someone as young as Hakeem, that was his brothers girl/wife and Lucious slept with her; so its fair game to pull that with Anika.

I like Vernon but I will be really shocked if he turns up alive. I'm already getting flashbacks to the Adrianna dead/alive debate from The Sopranos. They won't leave him alive to potentially accuse them of attempted murder.

[Vixenstud]

 

Solid Gold Praise Dancers

Comedy Gold!

 

SnarkKitty and Queena, pffft to Chi/NYC.....err'body know Philadelphia be the shizznit!!  (25th and Diamond to be exact, North Philly til I die!)

 

Watched Access Hollywood last night and TPH was on....apparently she doesn't even know when the 2nd season premiere will air.  Damn, did Lee think the show wouldn't be a success, how can you not have a 2nd season date?

 

And the other night Bryshere (Hakeem) was on the Wendy Williams show, he was so adorable. 

 

I'ma have to get the soundtrack soon.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Vixenstud

[Queena]

Comedy Gold!

SnarkKitty and Queena, pffft to Chi/NYC.....err'body know Philadelphia be the shizznit!! (25th and Diamond to be exact, North Philly til I die!)

Watched Access Hollywood last night and TPH was on....apparently she doesn't even know when the 2nd season premiere will air. Damn, did Lee think the show wouldn't be a success, how can you not have a 2nd season date?

And the other night Bryshere (Hakeem) was on the Wendy Williams show, he was so adorable.

I'ma have to get the soundtrack soon.

I'll scream Southside till I die! I love my city!

Yazz was adorable on WW.

I think I read somewhere that September or October is when season 2 will premiere. Fox is tired of losing viewers between their long season hiatus'.

I have the soundtrack on my Spotify, I'm also going to purchase a copy. I believe in supporting what I like, and I like Empire.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Still coming down off that rush.

Rundown:

* Loved the gifts and speeches. Especially Cookie's. Ha!

* Didn't love the brothers - mainly Hakeem - flipping with no real provocation, against Jamal.

* Loved Lucious' speech to Jamal & their song together

* Didn't love Lee Daniels working out his demons in said speech.

* Loved Lucious' changed diagnosis (didn't see that coming),  and his laugh afterwards

* Didn't love the way Lucious treated Cookie all episode.

* Loved Jamal being his father's son with no hesitation and pulling a Red on the balcony.

* Didn't love Jamal's rap turn and do-rag, ugh. (But worth the good laugh when I made a disparaging noise and the fam all commented that they knew I would hate that look, ha, they know me!)

* Loved that it was a two part/hour finale, it was a lot at once but damn if the ride wasn't good as hell.

* Didn't love the wrap up just showing everyone moving on, Hakeem singing, sonogram, Jamal apparently able to run the business just like that, Cookie settling into the mansion, but no scene (scene drop!) of them talking about what to do with Lucious off to jail.

* Loved Jamal and dude on the desk - hot and a first for network TV!

* Didn't love Cookie teaming up to blindside Jamal. WTF, Cookie?? Can't the boy have two parents for him at any given time??

* Love how they finally fulfilled their Dynasty agenda - Cookie/Anika was a Krystal vs Alexis Carrington moment if ever there was one.

* Confused at why J-Hud was going to do a gospel album, then was singing a song about turning up while sparkly asses twerked in front of her. Didn't realize she sold all the way out.

* DWIGHT???

* Bet a bunch of people flock to Hustle & Flow during Empire withdrawal.

We let you slide this time, but you have to do better, Empire. We won't be so easy on you next season! *quiet voice:::next season::: *sob* Oh, and give us some Jurnee, dammit!

 

Because it needs to be said, I am completely in love with your entire post.

[SimoneS]

I love my favorite montage in the last 5 years of TV hiTstory: two shirtless black men going to town on top of a mogul's desk while JHud belts out a gospel tune surrounded by the Solid Gold Praise Dancers and a woman tries to smother her murderous ex-husband with a pillow. Lee Daniels, you have grabbed the HOH SHIT crown from Game of Thrones, and I hope you never give it back!

 

That montage was subversive as hell and I loved it. 

[JBC344]

I think Cookie not being thrilled about Jamal running Empire isn't about Jamal but Luscious.  Originally Luscious was going to be in a debilitated state on his way out, and now that he is alive and kicking and for the foreseeable future still be in charge of Empire with Jamal second in command, this is what worries her.  Jamal is now directly under Luscious at the company and Cookie has been pushed out and can't run interference.

 

I also didn't see how Jamal was letting the power go to his head.  Yes, the Beretti situation was totally crazy, but Jamal's idea of promoting Becky to A&R, and postponing Hakeem's record were actually really good ideas. 

[aradia22]

Ugh. It should be Jamal getting Empire because Hakeem and Andre are both pathetic. I had hopes for them (more Andre) at one point or another but no, they're just pathetic. It's not like they're bringing any skills or strength to this plot. They need this hostile takeover artist. And what? His angel falls so Andre turns his back on religion? And Hakeem is just Hakeem. Of course, Jamal ended up getting Empire, these two are ridiculous.

 

I do not like Cookie conspiring against Jamal just because Lucious pushed her out. However, it was nice to see the return of the Cookie who doesn't just bluster but would actually jump Anika. Oh, Boo Boo Kitty. It's adorable that you think you could take her.

 

Black Rambo's freestyle slamming Jamal was atrocious. What was that? Playground bullies have better insults. But what Jamal came back with was great so I forgive that pointless scene. I would be totally cool with putting Jamal and Jennifer Hudson in some contrived scenes so we could get some more gospel numbers. The one thing I disliked about it was the autotune.

 

I usually hate flashbacks but the way they used them to show Cookie and Jamal's relationship was very effective. Do not ruin this, Empire!

 

The Vernon/Andre/Rhonda debacle made very little sense. I can't tell anymore when Andre's being crazy. Is he still off his meds? Andre has been violent at times but the way they jumped to fighting seems out of character. Also, the way Andre keeps lashing out he's becoming super petulant and childish. Again, he and Hakeem are almost just as bad now. Really, they won't believe it was self defense? 

 

I continue to find the lyrics in Hakeem's raps terrible but add another point to the musical theatre references count. "Feed Me, Seymour?" Oh, Empire. 

 

I continue to be baffled as to how Jennifer Hudson won an Oscar. Was she about to run off the stage in shock realization of how she sold out? Was she supposed to be confident in that moment? Nervous? I don't know. The right emotions never register on her face... though I guess, at least there are emotions now.

 

It's interesting how the most empathetic of the three sons has become Lucious' successor. Jamal can do what needs to be done but he doesn't have Andre's cold ruthlessness or Hakeem's oblivious selfishness. Time and time again, Jamal is able to empathize and forgive. I hope they portray that as a strength and not a weakness going forward.

[Dee]

What qualifications does Becky have to be an A&R executive?

[wanderingstar]

I feel like a lot of next season will involve Cookie battling Lucious for Jamal's soul.

And while I was annoyed at Jamal for thinking Cookie snitched on Lucious, I get how intoxicating/compelling it is for him to finally have his father's love and acceptance.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[Vixenstud]

(Pouts)

 

Heyyyyyyyy!  So I looked up the soundtrack CD on Amazon, and Drip-Drop is not included....what in the bluedilly hell?!

[mtlchick]

 

Can we please call the city that Empire is filmed in by it's real name. Chicago! I get so tired of them calling my city NYC. No offense to NYC, and I hear it's great, but there's no place like the Chi. You can't mistake the buildings, signs, grass, hell even the concrete.

 

You can say the same about The Good Wife.  Set in Chicago, but clearly filmed in NYC.  (Shrugs.)  But hey, Empire films in your backyard so hopefully you get to see some of the action next season!

 

 

What qualifications does Becky have to be an A&R executive?

 

I'm guessing she's been with Lucious for a few years so she knows the ins and outs pretty well to know what to look for to fit into the brand.  At least she won't get yelled at by him any more (that line had me ROLLING.)

[kebarrera]

(Pouts)

Heyyyyyyyy! So I looked up the soundtrack CD on Amazon, and Drip-Drop is not included....what in the bluedilly hell?!

I believe the physical soundtrack only has 12 or 13 songs on it. The deluxe edition is digital only and you can buy that through Amazon mp3 or iTunes.

[JBC344]

What qualifications does Becky have to be an A&R executive?

I think they have been hinting at this through most of the season.  There have been a few times where Becky has made suggestions to Luscious.  There was also the small plot line that Becky is the one who convinced Luscious to sneak the phone in to Titan to allow him to secretly record his album while in prison.  Also a lot of aspiring entertainment executives will take jobs as assistants in hopes of getting a leg up and future promotion.  The whole "Mail room"/"Devil Wears Prada" culture.

[Vixenstud]

Oh, FFS!  I don't know anything about Itunes, MeTunes, whatever.....I STILL OWN A WALKMAN!

 

Thanks though, Kebarrera.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Vixenstud

[Empress1]

I was thinking “Is that allowed?” when Jamal was singing in the battle.

 

"What kinda black girl is named Becky?"
"My mom's white."

I fell out – but the funny thing is, in middle school I had a classmate who was almost as dark as Gabourey Sidibe and did have a blonde, blue-eyed mother. Genetics can be funny.

 

[Terence Howard] actually does play [guitar].

I think he plays the piano too. I feel like I remember him trying to have a music career but I might be making that up.

 

Loved the “whoop that trick” Hustle and Flow callback. There was a moment there when it looked like Lucious and Jamal were going to make out though.

 

If Cookie is TPH's age, then she was 27 when she went into the slammer, so she was with Lucious very young--maybe late teens?

She told Tiana she was about Tiana’s age when she met Lucious. I always assumed they met as teens.

 

Interesting that Rhonda is okay with role-playing Andre’s infidelities and with him offering her as a party favor to his clients, but his bonding with another woman over his spiritual awakening makes her walk out.  And yeah, yeah, emotional affair, blah blah, intimacy, blah blah blah.  It’s still very curious.

I don’t think so – I actually think that makes sense. The show hasn't gone into it too deep, but it seems clear to me that whatever extramarital activities they’ve agreed to are clearly limited to just sex – and it seems like they’re even limited to sex in order to benefit them tangibly in some way, not even sex purely for pleasure. But they’re supposed to be each others’ support system, and he’s finding that comfort with someone other than her – and not sharing that with her, even. He hasn’t said “I’ve had a spiritual awakening, will you come to church with me?” It's a part of his life she's been shut out from, which seems to be against their rules.

 

I disagree: Andre knows about certain aspect, but he doesn't understand the music/artist part. He understands money, but I think he is limited just like his brothers. Hakeem and Jamal are both familiar with contracts, but I don't believe that necessarily makes them savvy or experts. Jamal has recruited, but personally, I haven't seen enough to believe he can run a business. I think they'd be better off running the label together with someone advising them.

Exactly – they all know a little about it, but not enough. Andre’s business savvy but doesn’t have an ear for music, and Jamal clearly has the talent but doesn’t quite know the business. Hakeem is just too young to be in charge of anything.

 

On the old TWoP, one of the recappers had a bit called "The Most Awesome Thing I Saw on TV Last Week." The Cookie/Boo Boo Kitty fight was that. YES GOD.

[aradia22]

 

What qualifications does Becky have to be an A&R executive?

What qualifications does anyone have? So far it's a lot of 'think of your dead relative while singing', 'take off your jewelry,' and 'don't let your voice get lost in the mix.' 

 

 

I was thinking “Is that allowed?” when Jamal was singing in the battle.

I thought the same thing at the beginning but again, it was a great moment, so I let it go. It was a little silly that it completely cowed the other guy.

[MizStaken]

Can't figure out how to cut and paste on an iPad so apologies.

Empress about what you said concerning Lucious' and Jamal's duet, I thought the same thing but had to scold myself cuz that's every kind of wrong.

And Aradia, please come join me in the "how the hell is Jennifer Hudson an actress, let alone an academy award winner" club. She has an Oscar and Leonardo doesn't, go figure.

[willpwr]

I actually don't think Cookie's in that bad a spot. She could have played it cool but Lucius admitted in his sleep that he killed her cousin, now I know that cooler heads prevail but she had an instant reaction and she COULD have killed Lucius but didn't which is a positive for her. In fact at the end of the episode I think she went there to try to reconcile because she wanted her family together.Cookie's in good with Jamal and now she's in good with Hakeem and Andre, she finally has all three of them talking to her and has said a few times she wants the 3 of them to run Empire. The thing dividing them was Lucius but another point in her favor there is she didn't snitch and Lucius will probably end up figuring that out and so will Jamal, so yes, she could have played it cool but how many are that cold blooded that when someone brags about killing their cousin they'll just smile? Still Team Cookie here. I hope she gets her family together, it might not be pretty how they get there but I hope they reach that point.

[phoenics]

(Pouts)

 

Heyyyyyyyy!  So I looked up the soundtrack CD on Amazon, and Drip-Drop is not included....what in the bluedilly hell?!

It is on the iTunes version of the album.

[FuriousStyles]

I wonder if that guy Cookie had killed by mistake is ever going to come back to bite her.  That storyline was pretty much dropped.

 

I think if any of the boys were deserving of overall control of Empire it would be Andre.  He's actually worked there for some years and went to school for business.  He knows what he's doing.  As far as talent evaluation and all that stuff goes, Jamal could do that.  Honestly, if Empire is as big as we're led to believe, there's no reason why all 3 boys couldn't have credible, high level positions.

 

Luscious creating this ridiculous competition for the company's control when he really only prepared one of them even half way (Andre) was silly.  Neither Jamal or Hakeem knows anything about business, and from what I've seen neither of them were even interested in Empire from a business perspective before Luscious said it was given it to one of them. 

[callie lee 29]

 

TH was kind of hot playing the guitar. I feel dirty *takes 200 showers*.

Ditto. I really can't stand TH. I feel ashamed really liking that scene.

 

 

Malik Yoda revealed today that the producers told him his services would not be required in Season 2 and that he was being killed off.  So, he's not getting up off that carpet, probably wrapped in it and transported to the Berkshires.

This is short-sighted. Beyond the fact that he was one of two reasons I even turned into the show (NYU forever!!), the show needs a balance. As much as I like Tariji, Cookie can be too much. Between Cookie and Lucious they're just exhausting. Vernon was smart, cunning, and got Lucious in a way others didn't. I never thought he has Luciuos on a pedestal (which in the beginning Cookie, IMO, seemed to some degree); he never wanted approval/love (Jamal and Andre), and never tried to live up to (Hakeem). He respected what Luscious had achieved but also understood it came at others cost. I don't know, he seemed to have the most clear and objective view of Luscious. Not a lot of people on this show seem to have that (maybe Rhonda, there's an interesting dynamic).

[bannana]

I loved it the songs the twists and turns.

I'm glad Anika didn't fie I like her.

And the writers do need to slow some stories down everything happens pretty fast but most of the time I like it.

I was trying to figure out the timeframe of the season.  It seems like it was just weeks, or maybe a couple of months.  So they really had a lot go down in that timeframe and they could have spread some of that out a bit.  When I think of where Jamal was in Ep 1 to where he ends up (emotionally etc) in the finale, it feels too fast.  And we had at least three killings during that timeframe.  I love the show, I think it is well done, but there is a lot happening which makes it a lot less believable.  Although, that is the way prime time soaps usually are.

[william0102]

About the slowing plots down, I don't know how well that would work with some viewers. My mother hates soaps because they drag on, and she was damn determined not to watch Empire for the same reason. The fact that everything went so fast is why she ended up watching the whole season.

They have burned through a lot of stuff, but there's some plots they have going into the second season still: Tiana- what happens to her now? Camilia- she's coming back, and I'm still convinced she's working with Malcom. We have a new murder now thanks to Rhonda, and we still have fall out from Beretti and Frank whatever who is in jail. They went through a lot of stuff, but technically they still have the same number of problems they started the series off with, imo.

[Mozelle]

My only hope for (Black girl named) Becky is that she scrounges up better rappers than Kid Fo-Fo and Black Rambo.

[SnarkKitty]

SnarkKitty and Queena, pffft to Chi/NYC.....err'body know Philadelphia be the shizznit!!  (25th and Diamond to be exact, North Philly til I die!)

 

And the other night Bryshere (Hakeem) was on the Wendy Williams show, he was so adorable. 

 

I'ma have to get the soundtrack soon.

 

 

I'll scream Southside till I die! I love my city!

Yazz was adorable on WW.

I have the soundtrack on my Spotify, I'm also going to purchase a copy. I believe in supporting what I like, and I like Empire.

 

Oh, is that what we're doing now? Well then, LES/Lower East Side, represent!

 

I agree, I found Bry much more adorable than expected in his WW appearance. So cute, cheeky but not arrogant and totally respectful and appreciative of his good fortune.

 

If I got that soundtrack, I'd never get those songs out of my head. As it is, no lie I wake up every single morning with a "No Apologies" earworm. Fuck! Why did I say that ... I ain't scared of neeethin .... and they won't shut me up, hell no, hell no ... dammit.

 

Because it needs to be said, I am completely in love with your entire post.

 

And now I love you. ('Cause I'm really easy,)

 

Oh, FFS!  I don't know anything about Itunes, MeTunes, whatever.....I STILL OWN A WALKMAN!

Goddam you, VixenStud! I spend more time on this floor behind your posts ... 

 

FuriousStyles

 

LURVE.

[wanderingstar]

If I got that soundtrack, I'd never get those songs out of my head. As it is, no lie I wake up every single morning with a "No Apologies" earworm. Fuck! Why did I say that ... I ain't scared of neeethin .... and they won't shut me up, hell no, hell no ... dammit.

The day after the finale, I couldn't get "Keep Your Money" out of my head. I sat in a meeting at work, half listening to what was being said, while thinking "I'm hungry and you got me goin'...gimme my money!"

 

So it's probably a bad thing that I bought the soundtrack-lol

Edited March 21, 2015 by Gillian Rosh

[Telechy]

 

My only hope for (Black girl named) Becky is that she scrounges up better rappers than Kid Fo-Fo and Black Rambo

 

Seriously. I love the insights into the music industry on the show, and it's one reason I don't totally agree with the Dallas and Dynasty comparisons. Did anyone on those shows give impassioned speeches about how new oil shale extraction techniques were changing the market? Nope, the "oil company" was just something to make them rich and let them fight over it. While I would be surprised if the show ever went after individual artists or companies (that would burn bridges from a guest star perspective), I assume "artists" like Kid FoFo are there to show how creatively empty a lot of contemporary music is...which is interesting, because Lucious is obviously obsessed with his own artistic integrity and having a unique sound. 

 

 

About the slowing plots down, I don't know how well that would work with some viewers.

 

Among his other accomplishments, I think Lee Daniels may have found a way to counteract multitasking, because if you take your eyes off the screen for 2 minutes, you could miss an attempted murder, a kid having sex with his almost-stepmom, and an appearance by Gabourey Sidibe. I just wish we could get 3 hours of extras for each show exploring the plots in depth. In particular, I want a spinoff about Ghetto-Ass Studio, which would mostly be people recording music while getting baked with the occasional shooting for drama.

[tennisgurl]

 

Black Rambo's freestyle slamming Jamal was atrocious.

I know right? I am not exactly an expert when it comes to flow and raping, but even I was like "man, this guy is getting a crowd going? He freaking sucks". Guys I knew in middle school had better rap battles than that. This guy they cant loose? Empire needs to get a more impressive rooster stat.  

 

I agree they need to slow their asses down a bit when it comes to the storytelling. I like that they keep things exciting and crazy, in true soap opera form, but I`m getting whip lash trying to keep track of everyone's alliances, betrayals, murders, etc. I feel like this is becoming a real issue with a lot of TV in general today. They are way too obsessed with having big, crazy "OMG did you see that?!" Twitter moments, without the pacing to make those moments really work. I don't think this show has gotten to that point, but they really need to spend more time developing characters and stories, instead of just burning through them. 

 

And bring back Lola! 

[kpw801]

On re-watch I noticed the foreshadowing of Vernon's death.  When he chokes out Andre after he discovers L killed Bunkie, Andre tells him if you ever put your hands on me I will slit your throat.  It wasn't quite the manner of death Andre referenced but the next time Andre and Vernon came to blows Vernon ended up dead.

On re-watch I noticed the foreshadowing of Vernon's death.  When he chokes out Andre after he discovers L killed Bunkie, Andre tells him if you ever put your hands on me I will slit your throat.  It wasn't quite the manner of death Andre referenced but the next time Andre and Vernon came to blows Vernon ended up dead.

[Empress1]

 

As it is, no lie I wake up every single morning with a "No Apologies" earworm.

I catch myself bopping around my kitchen talking about "you're so beautiful ..." and going up down up down UP down, shaking it fast.

[wanderingstar]

Upon my re-watch of the finale, the thing that struck me most was the complete lack of enthusiasm on the part of his family when Lucious announced he wasn't dying. I just laughed and laughed - especially when finally Jamal murmured his "That's great, dad." Hilarious.

[Donny Ketchum]

Okay.  So I don't get what the church scene and Andre's disillusionment was all about.  What, exactly, did Lucious do to drive Andre out of that?

[Kendall]

Lucious assumed that Andre's real devotion was to whatever Jennifer's name was and he wanted to prove to him that no one has any devotion to anything but money, including this woman of God.

 

The whole scene/story was ridiculous because even if Jennifer was just itching to leave the church and record an album, the notion that she would jump into the arms of Lucious is ridiculous as no one is living in a bubble on this show. Lucious is the equivalent of Suge/Puffy and we'll go back a little with Berry Gordy.

 

No one knew how shady Berry Gordy really was until every Motown artist sued him, but Suge and Puffy aren't dudes that you'd even walk across the street with if you can help it, much less sign your life away to with a contract. Not to mention, you just going to jump at a chance to work for Lucious, the dude that you know for a fact didn't even come to see his son while he was in therapy?

 

That's the dude you running out of the church for?

 

If anything, that story should've been told next season, it would've been a lot more impactful. They didn't need a big name like Jennifer to pull that one off, so it wouldn't even be about budget constraints.

[Queena]

Lucious assumed that Andre's real devotion was to whatever Jennifer's name was and he wanted to prove to him that no one has any devotion to anything but money, including this woman of God.

The whole scene/story was ridiculous because even if Jennifer was just itching to leave the church and record an album, the notion that she would jump into the arms of Lucious is ridiculous as no one is living in a bubble on this show. Lucious is the equivalent of Suge/Puffy and we'll go back a little with Berry Gordy.

No one knew how shady Berry Gordy really was until every Motown artist sued him, but Suge and Puffy aren't dudes that you'd even walk across the street with if you can help it, much less sign your life away to with a contract. Not to mention, you just going to jump at a chance to work for Lucious, the dude that you know for a fact didn't even come to see his son while he was in therapy?

That's the dude you running out of the church for?

If anything, that story should've been told next season, it would've been a lot more impactful. They didn't need a big name like Jennifer to pull that one off, so it wouldn't even be about budget constraints.

...Who would've sang Lucious' big hit with Juicy J while Lucious was being carted off to jail? They could've came up with a better storyline. I think they wanted to use Jennifer on the soundtrack, and the song with Juicy J is one of my favorites, but that storyline didn't make any sense.

[One Tough Cookie]

Oh, FFS!  I don't know anything about Itunes, MeTunes, whatever.....I STILL OWN A WALKMAN!

 

 

I was recently told {in an extremely sanctimonious tone} OMG, MOTHER, no-one listens to CDs anymore!

[Kendall]

...Who would've sang Lucious' big hit with Juicy J while Lucious was being carted off to jail? They could've came up with a better storyline. I think they wanted to use Jennifer on the soundtrack, and the song with Juicy J is one of my favorites, but that storyline didn't make any sense.

 

Any chick that can sing, act and get paid to do both for less and possibly show up next season without much hassle. That could've been a good story, but it was wasted due to who they cast for the role. Most of the stunt casting won't allow for a real story unless they are truly going to add the person for a minimum of six to twelve episodes due to the star's full time, official career, so you might as well get talented unknowns to play the parts.

[Queena]

Any chick that can sing, act and get paid to do both for less and possibly show up next season without much hassle. That could've been a good story, but it was wasted due to who they cast for the role. Most of the stunt casting won't allow for a real story unless they are truly going to add the person for a minimum of six to twelve episodes due to the star's full time, official career, so you might as well get talented unknowns to play the parts.

I agree. I was being sarcastic.

[Gigi43]

About the slowing plots down, I don't know how well that would work with some viewers. My mother hates soaps because they drag on, and she was damn determined not to watch Empire for the same reason. The fact that everything went so fast is why she ended up watching the whole season.

Well soaps (daytime ones) make over 200episodes a year, and yeah too often stories can drag but I don't think any prime time show could be at risk for dragging on like they do just by the numbers. For now I'm cutting the show slack with the quick pace because I'm torn as to what's better, 12 episode seasons which this was or 22 which is the usual standard that can answer more questions but can also go into filler episode territory. Hopefully in season 2 there will be one solid story with a stable B and C plot. I felt like they tried to do too much, like really what was the point of Cookie and the hit? As cute as Lola was, that story didn't contribute a whole lot; yet things like Andre's hospital stay I felt was short changed. It was kind of like they were trying to have as many big "moments" as possible, but didn't plan well that moments pass and follow ups are needed to make them actually matter. Even in the finale, it's not uncommon for a season finale to end with a murder, pregnancy or someone going to jail... And of course Empire shoved all three in. Hopefully they're already working out the pacing because I can see it easily going off track and I'd hate for that to happen.

What qualifications does Becky have to be an A&R executive?

I don't think they ever said her qualifications but I've assumed from the beginning she was probably like Lloyd from Entourage, working her way up to whatever her field is, like Lloyd's ultimate goal of becoming an agent which he had the academic qualifications in place for. Assistant is a pretty common way to get your foot in the door. She's probably more qualified than Jamal who have never answered a phone there before being in charge. Edited March 23, 2015 by Gigi43

[memememe76]

The way Becky interacts with Luscious, she probably was comfortable in adding her 2 cents to whatever talent decision he had to make. And assistants are often tasked with ensuring that the talents' demands are fulfilled and their concerns addressed. And I'm assuming she has the requisite educational credentials. 

[susannot]

I love my favorite montage in the last 5 years of TV hiTstory: two shirtless black men going to town on top of a mogul's desk while JHud belts out a gospel tune surrounded by the Solid Gold Praise Dancers and a woman tries to smother her murderous ex-husband with a pillow. Lee Daniels, you have grabbed the HOH SHIT crown from Game of Thrones, and I hope you never give it back!

 

ITA.  That montage made me think of the scene from the Godfather where Michael's child is being baptized while Mob hits are carried out, all to operatic music.  I would bet money that Lee Daniels loved the Godfather trilogy.

 

I can't even describe how much i loved this finale.  Haven't seen such powerhouse acting on TV since True Detective Season I with MM.  And the newest brilliant young talent in Jussie.

Edited March 23, 2015 by susannot