S05.E14: Spend

[Dodginblue]

Maybe Sam's conversation with Carol was just a big snow job by the kid.  He seems kind of sneaky and manipulative and he could have had a sixth sense about how to wind her up, talking about how he breaks things, asking about the guns, running off when she started demanding answers.  Sam could be the problem in Pete and Jessie's marriage.

 

Sam is maybe what Hershel was afraid Carl was going to become.  Completely amoral, a sociopath. But nobody suspects, except Pete.  That's why he's getting drunk in the middle of the day.  Jessie doesn't believe him, she's on the kid's side.  And now Sam's figured out a way to get rid of his interfering Dad.

 

Probably not.  Although you would think after what Carol went through with Lizzie she might not be so willing to trust a kid.

[Iguessnot]

 

I also coughed up a pizza roll when Chevy Chase Munroe said he'd still be around when Noah became an architect. Like an anvil dropping contest.

I think he said he would still be around when Noah got to be his age, and I got really suspicious. Shades of Roth from the Godfather who thought he would never die. If he was trying to be humorous, it didn't translate for me.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I'm actually loving the Rick/Jessie storyline that's enfolding. I've always like the actress who plays Jessie, and *to me* they have great chemistry. 

 

To be honest, this is the first time in ages I've actually been interested in Rick. 

 

I'm totally actually for Rick/Jessie, too;  despite all my complaints.

 

But I stick by my complaints.  The way their 'putting them together' doesn't feel organic.  I know it being the ZA changes just about everything 'we' used to know, but still...

 

 

I know stuff happens in "offscreensville", but speaking of 'not feeling organic', how weird was it that Carol seems to know Pete & Jessie very well?  I mean, as viewers, the only person we've seen interact with either of those two is just Rick.  But that scene with Carol talking to Pete, seemed to imply more than just were briefly introduced at a 'welcome party'.

Edited March 17, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[missy jo]

I'm disappointed that Noah was killed, but such is life in the ZA. I keep going back to that chick who decided to blow herself up in the CDC. That chick was right. All of this struggle and sacrifice to survive, only to have your mouth torn apart by zombies. It's not for me.

 

 

Team Suicide, right here. I mean, survive for what, exactly?

 

As far as Deanna and Father Gabriel, an allegedly level-headed poker player wouldn't give much credence to an unhinged man rambling on about Satan, but clearly that's going to lead to consequences for the final episodes, so ... they've piqued my curiosity!

Edited March 17, 2015 by missy jo

[lawless]

Hmm. I wonder if the abuse storyline is misdirection. Maybe Pete is just a boorish drunk and he and Jessie are just having marital problems like Rick and Lori, and Jessie wasn't flinching in fear last ep, but just pulling away.

Maybe Sam wants the gun for Enid, or for his older brother, who knows she climbs the wall and wants the gun so he can try to impress her. Maybe Sam is angry because it's dangerous.

Or maybe Pete is a molester and is molesting Enid, who seems to be parentless and perhaps easy to victimize. Maybe that's why she goes over the wall sometimes. His repeated insistence that Rick bring the kids in to be seen is weird, but maybe Enid is the victim and can't tell because she has no where to go.

I hope Carol was just jumping to conclusions, because then the story will be a lot more interesting.

[morgankobi]

Team Suicide, right here. I mean, survive for what, exactly?

(bolding mine)

Am I the only one now hearing that Lil' Jon (I think) song that is everywhere?

[Boofish]

Father Pee Pants brings out the Tracey Jordan (30 Rock) in me.

Father pee pants - that ones a puzzler

That's the craziest thing I ever heard - episcopal

See I can just screw up now then go to confession

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Hmm. I wonder if the abuse storyline is misdirection. Maybe Pete is just a boorish drunk and he and Jessie are just having marital problems like Rick and Lori, and Jessie wasn't flinching in fear last ep, but just pulling away.

Maybe Sam wants the gun for Enid, or for his older brother, who knows she climbs the wall and wants the gun so he can try to impress her. Maybe Sam is angry because it's dangerous.

Or maybe Pete is a molester and is molesting Enid, who seems to be parentless and perhaps easy to victimize. Maybe that's why she goes over the wall sometimes. His repeated insistence that Rick bring the kids in to be seen is weird, but maybe Enid is the victim and can't tell because she has no where to go.

I hope Carol was just jumping to conclusions, because then the story will be a lot more interesting.

 

This crossed my mind.  But I don't know if the show will go there.

 

I do agree that all the big glowing neon signs are pointing towards "Pete is abusing Jessie (and Sam)", so much so it almost has to be a misdirect to something else.  But then again, sometimes Show really is that anvillicious.

Edited March 17, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[festivus]

I'm disappointed that Noah was killed, but such is life in the ZA. I keep going back to that chick who decided to blow herself up in the CDC. That chick was right. All of this struggle and sacrifice to survive, only to have your mouth torn apart by zombies. It's not for me.

 

 

I know, right? I probably wouldn't survive the first 5 minutes of a ZA but if I did I would totally pick to go out that way. I would have no interest in living in that world.

 

I'm going to be interested to see Rick's reaction to Noah's death. He did not want to leave him at the hospital and with the blanket scene I do think he thought of him as a child to protect like Carl.

 

I think they're going to go with the boring Pete is an abuser story but I sure wish it would be something like some of the spec I've been reading in this thread. I like the one about Sam being the problem with Pete and Jessie's marriage.

[kj4ever]

I think the jobs they gave Michonne and Rick were likely a sign of respect. Maggie's was probably down to basic trust and seeing how much Maggie wanted to be a part of the experience.

 

I would guess that Aiden probably didn't want any heavy firepower on his team, as he wanted to be in charge. 

 

I'm not sure if bigger names would have helped (Daryl was a part of the run that killed Beth's poor boyfriend Zach), because sometimes one person just screws up (Bob looking for booze; Aiden trying to be a bad-ass).

Perhaps Aiden is a case of like Mother like Son, because I think Deanna feels the same way now that the firepower is rolling over her people in charge.

[Andromeda]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the two deaths were obvious throwbacks to Romero movies. Aiden's death in particular was nearly an exact reenactment of an iconic scene in Day of the Dead. Those scenes may be shocking for TWD but they're nearly cliché in classic zombie movies, which usually have long periods of calm punctuated by over-the-top gory deaths bordering on slapstick (i.e. frail decomposed corpses easily tearing apart human bodies like wet paper bags full of ketchup). I will miss Noah—Aiden not so much—but I found the visual nod pretty cool.

Yes! And if you really watch closely (ignore the "gore" and pools of blood) at the walkers' hands, some of them were just sort of tickling at their victims. Kinda took me out of the moment there.

I'm disheartened that so many ASZhats have turned out to have the same character flaws and weakness. I felt like it was a little heavy-handed, that the guys at the construction site and the two out on the mission with the gang were all so cowardly. Why aren't they all dead?

It was good to see some action and movement. But if this is what usually happens on a run -- and it seems to happen every time -- how did the ASZers ever survive?

I hate the Father. I love the storyline, but I worry that it'll end up with Madame Governor believing his crap without any evidence, and despite the obvious value the gang brings to the town. Because shows like to do that -- set up giant misunderstandings, where if people just talked more (like the gang sharing their true history about the Termites, etc.), everyone could find common ground. OK, maybe that's not super dramatic, but if she throws away the gang because of a bunch of crap spewed by a nutty pastor and a bad run caused by her own people, I will just...ugh, can't even. But, being as it was her son, I can see her seeking to blame someone, so I expect it will all go very badly from here on out.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Andromeda

[Hava]

I totally thought it would turn out that Rick had destroyed the owl to get closer to Jesse. Thank goodness I was wrong.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Hava

[Andromeda]

I'm all for killing men who abuse their wives and children, but I don't think they have that luxury.  Doctors are a rarity, they're like a professional athlete in the ZA.  I say remove him from Jessie's home, lock him up when not being supervised, and hide the alcohol.  If you suspect he may deliberately injure a patient out of vengeance, let him know his life is on the line.  How foolish to just kill him.

 

I don't have a problem with Carol telling Rick about her suspicions, and telling him he needed to kill the hubby.  Look what Rick did last time Carol went rogue.  He feels he's a better decider-in-chief?  So hear you go.  Knowing a child is involved, Carol cannot be impartial.  With Rick's interest in Jessie, I don't think he's the proper decision maker either.  They need a committee - bring in Glenn and Michonne, and along with Carol/Rick/Daryl, make a decision as a group.

 

Lastly, if the hubby has to die, I vote for Daryl as executioner.  He had no problem torturing Randall.  Tell him this man is beating his wife and little boy - done.

Which all points to a flaw in Madame Governor's plans -- having a constable with no actual laws in place. They need to have laws, so people know what to expect if they're broken. Then they need some kind of court or council of elders or whatnot to determine guilt or innocence.

Because yes, a doctor is far too valuable to just shoot because you think he may have abused either wife or child. Gawd, Carol, dial it back a notch!

[AndySmith]

TWD can't have two of the same 'type' - not just black men, but also old men, blond women, little girls, brunette women, etc. I'm shocked we've had both Sasha and Michonne for so long, as well as Rosita and Tara. Maybe Tara's lesbian status exempts her from short possibly Latina brunette.

 

Amen. Also, if we're going to get into the topic of race, instead of more White and Black characters, lets see some more Hispanic, Asian, and Arab characters.

 

The Alexandria plotline is dragging a bit long, I think

 

I don't see it that way. If anything, it is flying by at a brisk pace. They've been there for 3 episodes now? I do think we'll be seeing some flashbacks in the season finale, since that seems like appropiate place for them.

 

We know he's good at being sneaky.  He's quiet and he can follow his target without being tracked.   He knows where the guns are kept, and he doesn't need Carol to point them out.

 

Carol and Sam would make a good sensei/protege dynamic, since I do think a small part of her is impressed with his stealth and ninja skills. Following her, sneaking into her closet, getting the chocoalte for her...unless of course, he is playing her, as others have pointed out...

 

Abraham was fun to watch though, going through Walkers like he had nothing to lose and all day to do it.

 

He looked like he was having a bit too much fun, which, don't have too much fun, Abraham! You seemed way to happy after killing off the zombies and getting respect and new followers. We all know what happens to people who have those types of character arcs, and the season finale is coming up...

Edited March 17, 2015 by AndySmith

[kikaha]

Does Jessie come across as an abused person?  I'm no expert, but she seems outgoing, happy, open, not withdrawn, fearful or defensive. 

[Pete Martell]

I'm disheartened that so many ASZhats have turned out to have the same character flaws and weakness. I felt like it was a little heavy-handed, that the guys at the construction site and the two out on the mission with the gang were all so cowardly. Why aren't they all dead?

It was good to see some action and movement. But if this is what usually happens on a run -- and it seems to happen every time -- how did the ASZers ever survive?

 

I always assume there are plenty of safe runs we never see, because it's not entertaining (I think season 3 is the only time I remember seeing a few safe, secure runs).

 

I think some of the people on the crew probably are/were brave and likely would have had mixed reactions to a walker attack, unlike Aiden and Nicholas, who pretty much just split, but the top-down policy in Alexandria encouraged hiding and running away. I'd just have to assume they hadn't really faced much danger up to this point.

[NurseGiGi]

I've seen them all, and the tedious dragging out of plotlines leading up to the finale has been a consistent problem with the show's pacing. It's similar to the "give a minor character screentime and development immediately before killing him/her" pattern they've established. Sure we all know that's 'how it works', but it's formulaic as hell and that's deadly for a narrative that runs on suspense and adrenaline.

 

And the main issue I have with Jessie isn't that she's not "badass" enough, but that we haven't been given enough reason to care about her or time to become invested in her and Rick as a couple. From her first appearance it felt like they just threw her in as a generic love interest and started lining up plot points to bring them together. It also seems odd he's taking such a huge risk to chase tail now when there are other attractive single women who've been around all along, have more of an emotional bond with him and are WAY less of a liability to his family's security. "Recklessly thirsty to get laid" has never been part of Rick's characterization before, and I'm really hoping this is leading up to some super cool plot twist because it feels way OOC for him otherwise.

You said this much better than I could myself so thank you!

 

The main reason I don't look forward to a Rick/Jessie coupling is because I don't think tptb will handle it well.  If it was well written I would be fine with it but I just don't trust the writers and they're not doing anything so far to think that will change.  I know I haven't seen anything so far to convince me that Pete is an abuser.  Hell, it could be something as simple as Jessie is no longer in love with his alcoholic self and has now run across someone she is attracted to.  I do see that the writers are setting up a triangle and I don't really want to see another one after the Rick/Lori/Shane thing.  I see Jessie has one thing in common with Lori.....she never knows where Sam is!

Hmm. I wonder if the abuse storyline is misdirection. Maybe Pete is just a boorish drunk and he and Jessie are just having marital problems like Rick and Lori, and Jessie wasn't flinching in fear last ep, but just pulling away.

Ha!  Great minds think alike.

 

ETA:  I'm also getting pretty tired of them killing off characters for shock value.  It's getting old.  And I can just see Kirkman sitting in a corner, rubbing his hands with glee, with that smug look on his face.  

Edited March 17, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[Nashville]

Carol and Sam would make a good sensei/protege dynamic, since I do think a small part of her is impressed with his stealth and ninja skills. Following her, sneaking into her closet, getting the chocoalte for her...unless of course, he is playing her, as others have pointed out...

 

So - should we start calling Sam 'Arya' to Carol's "the Hound"?  :)

 

<Dangit, when the HELL will GoT start back up...!?!?>

[Pete Martell]

 I do see that the writers are setting up a triangle and I don't really want to see another one after the Rick/Lori/Shane thing.  I see Jessie has one thing in common with Lori.....she never knows where Sam is!

 

The idea of Sam replacing Carl reminds me of the Arnold replacement on Diff'rent Strokes also being named Sam.

 

Keep the kids away from any Alexandria bicycle shops.

[Nashville]

In my defense, :-) the number of quotes is proof that I do read everybody's posts beforehand!

You and me both, dearie. :)

The church with the spire/steeple/whatever is outside the walls of Alexandria. So it really doesn't draw anyone now. Anyone alive.

Funny - FPP has the same problem.

[RedheadZombie]

Does Jessie come across as an abused person?  I'm no expert, but she seems outgoing, happy, open, not withdrawn, fearful or defensive. 

 

Abused women come in all shapes and sizes.   Carol is the stereotype of a battered wife, but I think she was the end result of being beaten down most of her adult life, and perhaps experienced the same with her father.  Battered women can and do hide their abuse, and it's said they are even out there running Fortune 500 companies.

 

I don't know how to read Jessie yet.  My only other experience with Alexandra Breckenridge was a character who was very bold and overtly sexual, so in comparison, Jessie is much more subdued and quiet.  I don't have much of an opinion yet on a Rick/Jessie pairing, but when they inevitably move on from Alexandria, I'd hate to see Rick having the burden of two more children.  I'm liking Sam okay, so maybe the older boy can be killed off.

 

I wonder why Pete is so eager to examine Judith and Carl.  To ingratiate himself to Rick?  To reinforce his importance to the community?  He should try to hide his drinking problem a little better.

 

Team Suicide, right here. I mean, survive for what, exactly?

 

I was living in Chicago on September 11th.  My mom called me crying, worried Chicago would be targeted.  I was like - are you kidding?  I want the bomb to land on my head.  I don't want to live in the fallout.  Struggling so hard to live, watching people you care about being killed, and then being torn apart like Noah?  No thanks.  I'd be like the mom in The Road.

 

Maybe Sam's conversation with Carol was just a big snow job by the kid.  He seems kind of sneaky and manipulative and he could have had a sixth sense about how to wind her up, talking about how he breaks things, asking about the guns, running off when she started demanding answers.  Sam could be the problem in Pete and Jessie's marriage.

 

I hope the show realizes one child sociopathic killer is enough.  Lizzie was off from the moment we first saw her on screen.  I think Sam has big guileless eyes.  I can't see a child who delights in stamping someone's hand as a danger.  He acts like a motherless child the way he's so into Carol.  I hope he doesn't get her killed. 

[RedheadZombie]

Is anyone else getting a Lost vibe from the ASZhats?  The cocktail party in which they discussed favorite meals, pasta machines, and socialized, reminded me of Ben and Juliette (and other Others) sitting in a beautifully decorated living room, attending a book club party.

 

As silly as it may seem to us that these people are dressing up and going to parties, I think humans will always try to form communities and live a life similar to the ones they had in easier times.  There are people living in war zones who go to work, get married, have babies, send their children to school.  They gossip, look at magazines, polish their finger nails.  It's just human nature.

[Nashville]

Is anyone else getting a Lost vibe from the ASZhats?  The cocktail party in which they discussed favorite meals, pasta machines, and socialized, reminded me of Ben and Juliette (and other Others) sitting in a beautifully decorated living room, attending a book club party.

 

As silly as it may seem to us that these people are dressing up and going to parties, I think humans will always try to form communities and live a life similar to the ones they had in easier times.  There are people living in war zones who go to work, get married, have babies, send their children to school.  They gossip, look at magazines, polish their finger nails.  It's just human nature.

In the sense that denial is deeply ingrained in human nature - yes, I totally agree. ;)

[Dodginblue]

 

 

I wonder why Pete is so eager to examine Judith and Carl.  To ingratiate himself to Rick?  To reinforce his importance to the community?  He should try to hide his drinking problem a little better.

 

 

 

I was kind of surprised by his asking, both in that conversation and at the party, but only because I would have thought some kind of basic screening would have been mandatory for all newcomers. Especially since they do have a doctor on hand.  If he's a lush maybe that's why Deanna doesn't push that sort of thing.  

[mla40]

Why did Maggie stand there silent? I would have gone off on him. I would have made it known he locked his parishioners out of the church, that their group saved him, that their dangerous group saved him again from cannibals that they had just escaped from, and saved him again when he had to go check out their 'story'. He would have been in tears for real when I got done with what I had to say. If I was Maggie.

[kikismom]

IMO Michonne falls squarly into the gorgeous, badass leading lady box. I don't consider her the quirky underdog. So again, since there are so many movies where the lead man usually falls for this type, why isn't it happening here? I think we know the answer, but I shall leave it at that.

Well, I guess that's a different interpretation of my descriptions "cute cheerleader/young secretary/other type pretty girl" is a little milder than "gorgeous badass".I also may not have made it clear that "Girl Who Pines For Him" wasn't specifying a "quirky underdog"..

 

The girl right in front of his face can have a lot going but if he's used to seeing it everyday in not so attractive circumstances she can be filed in his mind differently.

 

Maybe the cute cheerleader (as the movie character eventually discovers) has a lot about her he doesn't like; but when the times he sees her she is constantly smiling and wearing a short skirt and tossing her hair it gets filed in the check that out box. (BTW, any woman always smiling and wearing short skirts etc is going to be looked on favorably by guys that's why they get picked for cheerleader and that's what they are there for, right? Not to tell him to take out the garbage etc.).

 

The young secretary is always dressed to impress, asking what he'd like her to do today, saying yes sir right away etc. She may not be more gorgeous but she's there to take care of him, his life, his ideas.

 

I didn't mean to impy "the man usually falls for this type" as in those women are badass.

 

IMHO, Michonne does not fall squarely into those boxes I mentioned, and the circumstances of the time she and Rick have known each other do not make it possible.

 Nothing about the (brief) time he has known Jessie Anderson has any similarity to the time he has known Michonne. Maybe, from a logical standpoint the times with Michonne should mean more, but this is about non-logical penis doing the thinking.

 

Jessie hasn't (and has not had to) so far tell him he's wrong or maybe he's sure of what he knows but she isn't or question his definition of what's more dangerous being about his baby Judith's needs (Michonne was right but I bet he saw it as questioning his parenting which I think he must have felt shitty about already.)

 

Several other posters have mentioned the truth about what they know about each other. Michonne knows his screw-ups; and even if she doesn't hold that against him, it is something he may not want for a new start in life. They know each other---as others said---taking a shit in the woods and being absolutely stinking and gross and seeing the other one eating a dog. When it comes to friendship-bonding those things mean you stuck together through everything. But when it comes to a man's arousal, not so much.

 

It is great that a recent news item said that women think when a man said he likes a girl with a sense of humor it means a girl who is funny...but that men said it meant a girl who laughs at his jokes.

Author Rae Lawrence wrote about a girl wondering if she was sexy, and the other girls knowing it was about making the man feel that he was sexy.

 

I respect your feeling that you know the reason why...but there might be some other stuff! The other stuff doesn't mean Michonne did something wrong. But it means that when it comes to what turns people on, men are very very different than women.

Edited March 17, 2015 by kikismom

[marceline]

Sam is awesome.  Carol has terrorized him and he adores her, I LOVE that.  Kids know when you are a kid person!

 

To me that's kind of disturbing and it's a sign that he's way too comfortable with threats. Mileage varies.

[Haleth]

I must confess when the one guy at the construction site said he was going to fax Cleveland I got excited for a minute.  Oh, cool!  They are in communication with another group!  Aweso... oh, wait.  He meant something else.  Never mind.

 

What was cool was that the construction site used to be the prison and you could still see the fire damage.

 

So - should we start calling Sam 'Arya' to Carol's "the Hound"?  :)

 

And cookies instead of chickens.  Hmmm...

[kikaha]

  I really do wonder why Carol would trust anything that creepy kid had to say or hint around about.

 

Because she was abused, and she thinks she sees similar signs of abuse in him or his family. 

[RustbeltWriter]

Whoa, interesting. But who do you think Sam was shopping the gun for?

I think Sam wanted the gun for himself or for his dad. If Jesse is abusing him and his father, he may see having a gun as a way to protect himself. When Carol asked why he wanted one, his answer was cut short, almost like the showrunners wanted to fan the flames of an abusive relationship, especially by having the boy speak to Carol but they didn't want to reveal too much.

[RustbeltWriter]

What would be tough with that scenario is that:

 

• No matter how many times it is called her sculpture, she never said that, it was something she was doing with her kids. So if she was the abuser, getting revenge by breaking something Sam worked on himself ( and his brother worked on as well) doesn't really make sense to me.

 

• I am confused about the wording of the sentence about her not freaking about this kiss, going to Rick's to give him a haircut and she would have hurried home if she was worried about Pete's reaction?

The haircut came first.

I don't know how she would have any opinion about a reaction her husband would have since she is the one who told him (Pete on the porch my wife cut your hair today). the party came on a day after.

I doubt she'd hurry home after the kiss since she came with her husband and the two boys and they would go home together.

 

What did you mean?

 

 

 

What I meant was that if Jesse was the abused victim in the relationship, I wouldn't have expected her to linger at Rick's house giving him a haircut. I think she would have delivered the house warming basket, introduced herself and left. I don't think she would have found a reason to spend extra time with Rick.

 

As far as that kiss goes, if Jesse is the victim, I think she would have freaked out about the kiss more and been worried about Pete seeing it. She didn't seem that concerned.

 

I can see Sam acting out and breaking the sculpture even if he worked on it with his mom. It was a child's irrational way of acting out.

[Sofie Fatale]

Well, I guess that's a different interpretation of my descriptions "cute cheerleader/young secretary/other type pretty girl" is a little milder than "gorgeous badass".I also may not have made it clear that "Girl Who Pines For Him" wasn't specifying a "quirky underdog"..

The girl right in front of his face can have a lot going but if he's used to seeing it everyday in not so attractive circumstances she can be filed in his mind differently.

Maybe the cute cheerleader (as the movie character eventually discovers) has a lot about her he doesn't like; but when the times he sees her she is constantly smiling and wearing a short skirt and tossing her hair it gets filed in the check that out box. (BTW, any woman always smiling and wearing short skirts etc is going to be looked on favorably by guys that's why they get picked for cheerleader and that's what they are there for, right? Not to tell him to take out the garbage etc.).

The young secretary is always dressed to impress, asking what he'd like her to do today, saying yes sir right away etc. She may not be more gorgeous but she's there to take care of him, his life, his ideas.

I didn't mean to impy "the man usually falls for this type" as in those women are badass.

IMHO, Michonne does not fall squarely into those boxes I mentioned, and the circumstances of the time she and Rick have known each other do not make it possible.

Nothing about the (brief) time he has known Jessie Anderson has any similarity to the time he has known Michonne. Maybe, from a logical standpoint the times with Michonne should mean more, but this is about non-logical penis doing the thinking.

Jessie hasn't (and has not had to) so far tell him he's wrong or maybe he's sure of what he knows but she isn't or question his definition of what's more dangerous being about his baby Judith's needs (Michonne was right but I bet he saw it as questioning his parenting which I think he must have felt shitty about already.)

Several other posters have mentioned the truth about what they know about each other. Michonne knows his screw-ups; and even if she doesn't hold that against him, it is something he may not want for a new start in life. They know each other---as others said---taking a shit in the woods and being absolutely stinking and gross and seeing the other one eating a dog. When it comes to friendship-bonding those things mean you stuck together through everything. But when it comes to a man's arousal, not so much.

It is great that a recent news item said that women think when a man said he likes a girl with a sense of humor it means a girl who is funny...but that men said it meant a girl who laughs at his jokes.

Author Rae Lawrence wrote about a girl wondering if she was sexy, and the other girls knowing it was about making the man feel that he was sexy.

I respect your feeling that you know the reason why...but there might be some other stuff! The other stuff doesn't mean Michonne did something wrong. But it means that when it comes to what turns people on, men are very very different than women.

Very interesting take kikismom Edited March 17, 2015 by Sofie Fatale

[morgankobi]

Why did Maggie stand there silent? I would have gone off on him. I would have made it known he locked his parishioners out of the church, that their group saved him, that their dangerous group saved him again from cannibals that they had just escaped from, and saved him again when he had to go check out their 'story'. He would have been in tears for real when I got done with what I had to say. If I was Maggie.

I think Maggie's non-reaction is partially linked to the passive-aggressive "warning" she got from Deanna earlier about Maggie always seeming to stand-up for her own people. I think Deanna knows enough about the group, partially from the interviews, to know that FPP hasn't been with them long. Maggie denouncing him for the group wouldn't sit well right now. Deanna made it pretty clear Maggie has used up her input when it come to CDB.

 

Although everyone from CDB who is in power is there because Deanna put them there (she didn't have to approve Abraham as construction leader). Why is she acting like it's some plot she's not a part of?

Edited March 17, 2015 by morgankobi

[mandolin]

I really wish we'd seen more of those interviews to know what all Deanna knows. I think Maggie's lack of reaction is also "because: TV." How will we have tension if she spoke out right then?

[Riful]

I have a feeling that Jessie might be the abuser. The husband drinks because of it, and the kid is scared. It seems a bit to straight forward if it is the husband. They also made sure to not explicitly give an idea of the whom the son was scared off. This would also lead to Rick going after a man that is a victim instead of perpetrator, which would make for more dramatic story telling.

[Pete Martell]

Although everyone from CDB who is in power is there because Deanna put them there (she didn't have to approve Abraham as construction leader). Why is she acting like it's some plot she's not a part of?

 

I think she assumed they were under her control and she's realizing bit by bit that this isn't the case. She's used to the world of backbiting and delegation and seeming to do a lot of things but not actually doing anything - that's what being a Congressperson is all about. I think she means well, but watching this episode and going back and watching "Remember" again, I feel like she's just a lot of catchphrases that barely cover her neuroses and paralysis as a leader. 

 

I really do wonder if she never had any great desire to have people come back (not this many people, anyway) but once Aaron brought them back, she realized they were dangerous and decided to try to contain or mold them instead. 

[Ocean Chick]

Does Jessie come across as an abused person?  I'm no expert, but she seems outgoing, happy, open, not withdrawn, fearful or defensive.

 

 

I agree with the poster above who said there really isn't a profile for abused women.  Some women are just better actors than others.  Some abused women do become withdrawn and fearful.  Others, as pointed out above, head up Fortune 500 businesses, or are anchors/reporters on network news shows.  And everywhere inbetween.

 

I, too, would like the switchup to be that Jessie is the abuser, and Pete the victim.  Which would explain the drinking and Sam destroying the owl sculpture (which Jessie was forcing him to build maybe?).  That would be kind of awesome.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Ocean Chick

[Nutjob]

Sam trusts Carol because kids can tell a "mom" when they're around one, even if that person at first tries to hide it.  Carol is a nurturing mom type at heart, and Sam is drawn to it because of the turmoil in his own house. I definitely think Pete is the abuser, although I don't think he really knows about the kiss or anything else--he just sees a hot, new guy in town in a leadership position and worries that he'll take his woman.

 

 

I think she assumed they were under her control and she's realizing bit by bit that this isn't the case. She's used to the world of backbiting and delegation and seeming to do a lot of things but not actually doing anything - that's what being a Congressperson is all about. I think she means well, but watching this episode and going back and watching "Remember" again, I feel like she's just a lot of catchphrases that barely cover her neuroses and paralysis as a leader.

Agreed fully. I think what Deanna will realize is that her zeal to make the "perfect" community has closed her eyes to the cowardice of the people in ASZ. She's not nearly the leader she has deceived herself into believing she is.

[Andromeda]

Does Jessie come across as an abused person?  I'm no expert, but she seems outgoing, happy, open, not withdrawn, fearful or defensive.

She sure doesn't. I would love for it to turn out it's just marital difficulties, and not abuse. Partly because it'd be more surprising, and partly because it'd be interesting to explore how Carol jumped to conclusions because of her own past.

[Dobian]

I think Carol will be the one to kill Pete, or should be.  It would bring her story arc full circle as the former abused wife taking out an abuser.

 

Noah's death was the most graphically horrifying on this show to date.  That shot of his mouth....ugh.

 

Maggie should have come out of the stairwell and confronted Father Wimpy right on the spot.  Have him tell Deanna all about his church and how he kept his people locked outside to save himself.  He would have been completely discredited and that would have been the end of it.  Instead, the seeds of doubt are planted, which will lead to needless mayhem in the coming episodes.  I hate when things get contrived like that.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Dobian

[BrokenRemote]

I'm surprised I still am having thoughts about this episode.  To me, that means it's good enough to keep thinking about!

 

I don't think Carol was telling Rick to kill Pete, or even decreeing that Pete must die.  She didn't say "You have to kill him," she said "You're going to have to kill him".  There's a pretty distinct difference there. I really think she was basically resigning them both to what will probably happen in the end and that because Rick is both their leader and the supposed constable, will wind up falling to him.  However I don't think anything's going to happen, because even if Rick and Carol were diabolically plotting murder, Tara's about to be brought in clinging to life.  They're not about to kill the only doctor.  

 

I agree with others who say that there's no one profile of an abused wife.  You know how people always say "it happens in the best of families" and  "but he seemed so nice"?  Some women are better at hiding it than others.

 

As far as Sam, someone a few pages back mentioned that he's an especially sneaky kid.  Abused kids learn very young to keep a low profile, because the less the abuser sees you, the less you get hit.  He's probably able to sneak into Carol's house and follow her because he's spent his entire life sneaking away from his father.  And yes, I do think Pete is the abuser.  He's not just a drunk, he's a mean, antagonistic drunk.  If he were drinking to deal with being abused (by the wife about 3 feet shorter than him), he'd just be asking for more abuse if drinking turns him into a loud-mouthed jerk, wouldn't he?

 

And I think I also mentioned back several pages, the storyline doesn't feel stalled to me at all. It feels like they're hurrying, probably a little too much.  Because most of the complaints are along the lines of "they haven't developed Jessie's character enough", "they haven't shown us enough of Jessie and Rick to make him willing to murder for her" (I don't think that's what's happening, but leaving that aside), "we haven't seen Gabriel in weeks" and "why haven't they explained more about Alexandria?".  It feels like they have a large number of stories they want to tell by the end of the season, and they're rushing them all to the point where people are feeling left behind and stories aren't getting enough air time for people to believe them, all so that they can get where they want to be by the finale.

 

 

[BrokenRemote]

I think Carol will be the one to kill Pete, or should be.  It would bring her story arc full circle as the former abused wife taking out an abuser.

 

Noah's death was the most graphically horrifying on this show to date.  That shot of his mouth....ugh.

 

Maggie should have come out of the stairwell and confronted Father Wimpy right on the spot.  Have him tell Deanna all about his church and how he kept his people locked outside to save himself.  He would have been completely discredited and that would have been the end of it.  Instead, the seeds of doubt are planted, which will lead to needless mayhem in the coming episodes.  I hate when things get contrived like that.

And for all we know, it may go down that way and Carol may be the one to kill Pete.  We didn't even get to see Rick respond to Carol's comments, although a lot of people seem to feel Pete's already pretty much dead at Rick's hands (so he can get a "piece of tail").  For all we know, next week Rick listens to Carol's comments and says "let's not jump the gun" or "I think you should take care of this".

 

I do think Carol's not going to kill anyone without telling Rick first, because of Karen and David.  And I do think it makes sense logically, that if it is going to happen (and I don't think they're plotting it so much as accepting that the time will probably eventually come) Rick has much more plausible deniability as constable and the one guy that's allowed to have a gun inside the walls.

[kikaha]

I think Carol will be the one to kill Pete, or should be.  It would bring her story arc full circle as the former abused wife taking out an abuser.

 

 

And make it sickeningly ironic if Pete is not, in fact, an abuser.  TPTB are giving off mixed signals on this. 

 

How the town has survived so long is a mystery to me.  Plenty of monsters out there -- the human kind -- who would tear into Alexandria like a school of starving barracuda unleashed on a sheep trying to cross the river. 

[kikismom]

I think he said he would still be around when Noah got to be his age, and I got really suspicious. Shades of Roth from the Godfather who thought he would never die. If he was trying to be humorous, it didn't translate for me.

 

You're right; that was the accurate wording---thanks!

the walkers' hands, some of them were just sort of tickling at their victims.

 

"stop, you're killing me! haha no seriously..."

Abused women come in all shapes and sizes.   Carol is the stereotype of a battered wife, but I think she was the end result of being beaten down most of her adult life, and perhaps experienced the same with her father.  Battered women can and do hide their abuse, and it's said they are even out there running Fortune 500 companies.

There was an article about the amount of spousal abuse in some of NYs wealthiest homes...the husband knows he never has to go to jail like regular people, and the wife knows it too.

Now think about Alexandria Safe Zone--- Dr. Porchdick's very obvious alcohol problem must be known to everyone--- and is tolerated without a word of reproof.

 

Even when he's drunk in the day, when people are going on run outside the walls, when he could be needed to operate.

 

Tell me, if you are an abused wife or child, and you see that no one says boo to Pete because he is the only doctor...what do you suppose would happen if the town knew of anything else he did wrong?

Same thing. Nothing.

 

...because no matter what he does he is still the only doctor. So for all the suggestions about putting him in another home, or locking him up....come on!

 

What do we see in our own world right now?

 

It isn't what you do, it's who you are.

And that isn't even with the threat of living without the protection of the community from walkers or rapey gangs.

If anyone gets moved out it would be the wife, anyone banished to the outside it would be the wife.

She isn't necessary in a pragmatic way, her husband is...no matter what else he does. When you know that, and you want to be with your kids, and stay in a walled shelter with them...you don't walk around crying or being noticeably withdrawn and frightened. Because Deanna isn't going to say, you don't seem well, are you okay? Deanna is going to say you don't seem well, you need to be a team player, suck it up for the team, a little personal sacrifice is worth it for the greater good...

 

Maggie should have come out of the stairwell and confronted Father Wimpy right on the spot.  Have him tell Deanna all about his church and how he kept his people locked outside to save himself.  He would have been completely discredited and that would have been the end of it.  Instead, the seeds of doubt are planted, which will lead to needless mayhem in the coming episodes.  I hate when things get contrived like that.

I get what is so frustrating. But perhaps Maggie knows Deanna wouldn't focus on the Father PP bio as much as the Maggie-eavesdrops-on-Dear-Leaders-private-conversations (that's supposed to be Deanna's right as cult leader) .

Don't forget, neither we nor Maggie know yet what will be done about it. Suppose Deanna goes to her husband and says You won't believe what that fucking idiot was prattling on about! Dammit,he's so full of shit!

Maggie might not need to use information---or goodwill---that might come in handy later.

I know a lot of viewers want CDB to tell about what they have done and fought outside, and not doing so could lead to a contrived misunderstanding.

Possibly!

But it's a risk I might take; I would not be able to forget that as nice as Aaron was, he certainly did not tell everything.

The construction crew and the supply run teams did not tell everything---for instance what if CDB had been told at first about "the system"?

[Samsnee]

So why were the last three episodes called "Remember", "Forget", and "Spend"?

 

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/03/the-walking-dead-easter-egg/

[kikismom]

How the town has survived so long is a mystery to me.  Plenty of monsters out there -- the human kind -- who would tear into Alexandria like a school of starving barracuda unleashed on a sheep trying to cross the river. 

I remember the Survivor season with Rob and Amber, how she won with her strategy of the shark and the pilotfish, how the pilotfish which cleans the shark is the only fish safe from the shark, it tends and befriends and serves the shark and is rewarded by not being preyed upon.

I don't have a point here; just remembering. That was a great season.

 

So why were the last three episodes called "Remember", "Forget", and "Spend"?

 

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/03/the-walking-dead-easter-egg/

Darlin' you've been a member of this community since Sept of last year. Must have been a hell of a party!---you've missed a lot of posts!

Hope to see you check in more often!  :-D

[Raven1707]

Here are the Nielsen ratings for Season 5, to date:

 

10-12-14 “No Sanctuary” 17.3 million
10-19-14 “Strangers” 15.143 million
10-26-14 “Four Walls and a Roof” 13.801 million
11-02-14 “Slabtown” 14.518 million
11-09-14 “Self Help” 13.534 million
11-16-14 “Consumed” 14.068 million
11-23-14 “Crossed” 13.329 million
11-30-14 “Coda” 14.807 million
02-08-15 “What Happened and What’s Going On” 15.643 million
02-15-15 “Them” 12.267 million
02-22-15 “The Distance” 13.438 million
03-01-15 “Remember” 14.430 million
03-08-15 “Forget” 14.534 million
03-15-15 “Spend” 13.781 million

[Dobian]

I remember the Survivor season with Rob and Amber, how she won with her strategy of the shark and the pilotfish, how the pilotfish which cleans the shark is the only fish safe from the shark, it tends and befriends and serves the shark and is rewarded by not being preyed upon.

I don't have a point here; just remembering. That was a great season.

I didn't like that season so much.  I generally dislike it when someone wins with that strategy.  I saw it when Tina rode Colby to the finish in Australia, and when Natalie did the same thing riding Russell's coattails to victory in Samoa.  What's the Walking Dead equivalent, Father PP?  That would suck, him rising to power as the others wipe each other out.  Apocalameness.

[Nashville]

I think Maggie's non-reaction is partially linked to the passive-aggressive "warning" she got from Deanna earlier about Maggie always seeming to stand-up for her own people. I think Deanna knows enough about the group, partially from the interviews, to know that FPP hasn't been with them long. Maggie denouncing him for the group wouldn't sit well right now. Deanna made it pretty clear Maggie has used up her input when it come to CDB.

 

Although everyone from CDB who is in power is there because Deanna put them there (she didn't have to approve Abraham as construction leader). Why is she acting like it's some plot she's not a part of?

Because Abraham's "promotion" wasn't her idea.

I keep seeing folks calling Deanna's statement to Maggie about backing up her own people a "threat" - but I don't think that's what it was. Rather, this is another step in part of Deanna's Grand Scheme - this step being Assimilation. Deanna's short-term goal is for there to be no more ASZ+CDB; she wants one big happy smiling bunch of ASZhats. Thus the scattered jobs - with the exception of Rick and Michonne, no to CDBers appear to be working together. Thus Deanna's adoption of Maggie as a protege, and her comments after the conversation with Tobin; Deanna is trying to dissolve Maggie's view of CDB as a separate entity within the ASZ with what is essentially a "look at the big picture" ploy - SOP for any politician.

Deanna wants to crack the shell of CDB unity and assimilate them into the ASZ Borg - the better to guide you along my path, my dear. Unfortunately - for Deanna - I think this once again demonstrates her lack of comprehension. The ties which bind CDB have been tested by fire. A few pretty words aren't going to undo them - although it may be to CDB's advantage to let Deanna think she's succeeding....

[lulee]

Regarding speculation that Jessie is the abusive parent:

When Sam first caught Carol with the gun stash, he said he tells his mom everything, and assuming the young actor was given good direction, Sam seemed completely guileless about it. He doesn't tell her everything out of fear or intimidation but because she's the one he's close to. That's my read, anyway.