Season 10 Chat

[iwasish]

When Bruce was taking the picture of Kendall and Kylie in the kitchen, something was said about them wanting a picture and Khloe snidely said you better get lots of pictures now.

 

Also when she commented on Bruce being only concerned over Kendall and Kylie she said in her talking head that she'd 'known' Bruce longer than they did.

 

Quite the bitch she was being.

[truelovekiss]

When Bruce was taking the picture of Kendall and Kylie in the kitchen, something was said about them wanting a picture and Khloe snidely said you better get lots of pictures now.

Also when she commented on Bruce being only concerned over Kendall and Kylie she said in her talking head that she'd 'known' Bruce longer than they did.

Quite the bitch she was being.

Someone seriously needed to slap Khloe. I completely understand them wanting to take pictures with their father as Bruce, but I feel like Kylie and Kendall (who are behaving much more maturely than Khloe) will also be happy and proud when the time comes to take selfies with Her, because they'll know that is how their father feels the most comfortable.

This might come out the wrong way so I'm sorry in advance if this is offensive. But the Kardashians had a dad. A dad that loved them and was very involved in their lives, up until his death. I get that they love their stepfather, but when they say things like "Bruce was my dad since I was four," to me, that sounds like he took precedence over Robert Kardashian which isn't true. Unfortunately, it came across as more Kardashian attention whoring. Those three girls often just used Bruce as the butt of their jokes, or ignored him, but now that he's the "interesting" one, all Khloe can talk about is how he's her dad too. She really couldn't stand to take a back seat behind Kendall and Kylie.

[xls]

What a load of staged BS! "Excuse me while I "sniff, sniff" purse my inflated lips, and dab my overly made-up eyes" Gag. Frankly Bruce makes me sick. Does he think he's a martyr just because he's transitioning? BIG DEAL! People have been changing their sex for decades, you are nothing speciall Bruce. You will fit right in with this group of artificial, plastic women. 

If you want to impress me and be a hero in my eyes you should have been a good father to your FIRST group of kids! Bite me please.

 

P>S. Kendal is awesome in her naturalness, but even her crying seemed phony. 

[RealityCowgirl]

Acknowledging up front that thoughts undoubtedly mirror what others probably have said above, and better. But I need to unload from the brain before heading to work.

 

1) Shut the hell up, Kris. Sorry. We know enough about her utterly self-serving nature that even legitimate feelings - if she has them - are suspect. I neither knew, nor cared, what little sliver of what she offered was real and what what utter damage-control BS.

 

2) Shut the hell up, Khloe. I understand the general range of emotions someone in her situation would have and respect her right to have them. However, wasn't this the chickadee who colluded with mama to keep Bruce out of the loop on that oh-so-fantastic decision to leap into a quick and ill-advised marriage to the towering loser? My interest in hearing her lecture *anyone* about the hurt of loved ones lying and telling partial truths, especially Bruce, was at level zero.

 

3) Kim. Saw too damn much of her (go to hell, Kris). On the other hand, this is a case where her vapidness ends up being a good thing. She's incapable of critical thinking - or any thinking beyond the most superficial. She got what seems to be great, mature advice from whatshisname, putting her in the surprisingly "logical" position of being the supportive Kardashian spokesperson. Not that we NEED a supportive Kardashian spokesperson.  But we're going to get one whether or not we want one, so she actually makes some kind of twisted sense in that role.

 

4) Kendall and Kylie. It IS different for them, for many reasons (shut up, Khloe), starting with, one, Bruce IS their father. Two, they are younger and have less life experience and (chronological) maturity to help them work through this. Not that it is necessarily a cake walk for his other children. But those children are (a) older and wiser and (b) seem to have had more time to hear, process and accept the news - off camera. I know why Kendall and Kylie "had" to be on this family circus. But I also wish they were not, for that reason.

 

5) Not the complete train wreck that I predicted (and giving me a little more hope for his mini-series - but not much. It's still E!, after all.). But I did end up appreciating the chance to hear more from Bruce.

[Timetoread]

I found ALL of their reactions completely reasonable and understandable.  Particularly Khloe's.  After watching this for years my wrap up on Khloe is that she is probably the most sensitive of the group (add Kendall as well).  She feels things deeply, but she is not particularly intelligent or deep.  I don't say that as an insult because I don't think of her as a bad person, although she has had some VERY bad moments, IMO.  This however was not one of them.  Many people process distress as anger - my father did that and I am learning, in my middle age, how NOT to do that.  Sometimes you have to look at the situation and not somebody's feelings about the situation.  It seemed abundantly clear to me that Khloe is processing this almost like an impending death.  Bruce will "die" and then there will be this other person.  Khloe has already lost one father (which she also didn't handle well) and is now preparing to lose another.  Bruce DID lie to them - omission is lying.  They all put on a brave face to accept him as an out of the closet cross dresser - a lifestyle change.  But then he sprung on them, at the 11th hour - that he was transitioning.  This man was their father and the way he talks it almost comes across like he faked being a man and in someways faked being their father - which is not true but I can see how that FEELS true.  And then his really nasty comment to Khloe about only caring about the younger ones.  I was like "Wow."  I would have walked out and not returned after that.  Bruce, IMO, has always been an unbelievably selfish and callous man.  His problems started long before he decided to publicly come out.  He unrepentantly abandoned and neglected his older kids - who are okay with it because Bruce is more an acquaintance who bequeathed them a famous last name than a father.  But he's been in Khloe's life her entire life.  And here's some news to the youngsters - you don't feel things differently or even deal with them better because you have some magic birthday and are an "adult".  For what it's worth, children tend to be far more resilient than adults.  And losing your parent is every bit as hard at 30, 40, 50 as it is at 16.   It's a different loss but a grave loss, nonetheless.  Khloe - and Kendall - see this as LOSING, not redefining, Bruce.

 

As for Kim, I think she IS legitimately the "voice of reason" in that family.  She is so hated that nobody will afford her any good qualities, but I've found Kim to actually be the most intuitive of this bunch.  She's smarter than people give her credit for and I've watched her interact with ALL of her family members and she truly "gets" them.  I thought her interpretation of the situation was dead on.  Like how she said that Khloe comes across as harsh but Bruce needs to own up to the fact that he has been ambiguous and ommitting a lot of information that keeps causing shock as the truth gets revealed in increments, which prompted the ONLY time I've EVER seen Bruce Jenner not be slippery and dismissive and speak with self-sacrificing honesty.  He's been squirrely because he is scared of their reactions, he doesn't know what the protocol is, he doesn't know how to lessen the blows as they come, he doesn't know how to protect THEM from those blows, but he's doing this thing because at this point in his life, he doesn't have a choice - he wants to finish out his life being true to self.   That was a breakthrough moment, IMO.  Honest and admirable and most importantly, understandable.

 

One last thing.  I don't just defend Kim in this, I defend Kris.  For all of her flaws, and I have MANY issues with Kris,  I imagine that this is very very hard for her.  She knew he cross dressed but he was clearly heterosexual.  He was her husband and biological father to her youngest children (as in she had sex with him and conceived those children with the MAN she thought she was married to) and hands on with her oldest children.  He played house with her for 20 years.  That is no joke, no put on for television or fame or money.  That was a REAL marriage.  I am allowing her to mourn not just the dissolution of the marriage but to experience the grief, humiliation and fear that she spent her life with a man who was wearing her as a beard.  I think the onus is on Bruce to assure her that he married her and stayed married to her out of love for HER, not the family and the lifestyle, HER.  If that is not the case, then he is the bastard I believe him to be.  And after his transition, he'll be a bona fide bitch.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Timetoread

[mwell345]

I felt bad for Kylee and Kendall - clearly they are struggling with this, and I got the impression that both would have preferred that this not play out on national television.  The Diane Sawyer interview was one thing - but this was clearly a grab for ratings and spin control by their mother. 

 

Kim lording it over everyone else that she was "spokesperson" - could she have been any more obnoxious about that? And must she mention Kanye West in every episode?  And why was she "afraid" to tell him about Bruce?  Did she think he was going to crash the Diane Sawyer interview? Oh, wait...not too farfetched, I guess.

 

I understood where Bruce was coming from when he said he was only concerned about Kylee and Kendall, but it came out wrong - and if I were Khloe, it would have bothered me as well.  And again, I get back to the fact that if you're so concerned about them, why subject them to this dog and pony show? 

 

And where was Rob?  I guess he really is finished with them.

[iwasish]

Acknowledging up front that thoughts undoubtedly mirror what others probably have said above, and better. But I need to unload from the brain before heading to work.

 

1) Shut the hell up, Kris. Sorry. We know enough about her utterly self-serving nature that even legitimate feelings - if she has them - are suspect. I neither knew, nor cared, what little sliver of what she offered was real and what what utter damage-control BS.

 

2) Shut the hell up, Khloe. I understand the general range of emotions someone in her situation would have and respect her right to have them. However, wasn't this the chickadee who colluded with mama to keep Bruce out of the loop on that oh-so-fantastic decision to leap into a quick and ill-advised marriage to the towering loser? My interest in hearing her lecture *anyone* about the hurt of loved ones lying and telling partial truths, especially Bruce, was at level zero.

 

3) Kim. Saw too damn much of her (go to hell, Kris). On the other hand, this is a case where her vapidness ends up being a good thing. She's incapable of critical thinking - or any thinking beyond the most superficial. She got what seems to be great, mature advice from whatshisname, putting her in the surprisingly "logical" position of being the supportive Kardashian spokesperson. Not that we NEED a supportive Kardashian spokesperson.  But we're going to get one whether or not we want one, so she actually makes some kind of twisted sense in that role.

 

4) Kendall and Kylie. It IS different for them, for many reasons (shut up, Khloe), starting with, one, Bruce IS their father. Two, they are younger and have less life experience and (chronological) maturity to help them work through this. Not that it is necessarily a cake walk for his other children. But those children are (a) older and wiser and (b) seem to have had more time to hear, process and accept the news - off camera. I know why Kendall and Kylie "had" to be on this family circus. But I also wish they were not, for that reason.

 

5) Not the complete train wreck that I predicted (and giving me a little more hope for his mini-series - but not much. It's still E!, after all.). But I did end up appreciating the chance to hear more from Bruce.

Kris especially annoyed me. They are divorced and have been for sometime. The marriage is over and done. What Bruce chooses to do now is his own business, don't try and make yourself the victim. Her tears over whether or not her memories of the good times they had together really meant something are self serving.. maybe Rob Sr. had those same feelings when she was running all over town getting laid?

 

One thing Bruce did say that stuck out, he used the Olympic Games and the years he spent training as a way to beat back the feelings he had. I think in some way marrying Kris, with her brood of kids, his own four and then having two more, the fact that he devoted his life to raising them and being the most involved parent ever, might have been an attempt to do the same thing. Did being Mr. Mom satisfy some of those female/feminine/maternal yearnings?

 

Khloe just came across as selfish and overly dramatic, what with the fur vest and the hat, the plumped up lips and the "I'm always team Bruce"

[Timetoread]

I felt bad for Kylee and Kendall - clearly they are struggling with this, and I got the impression that both would have preferred that this not play out on national television.  The Diane Sawyer interview was one thing - but this was clearly a grab for ratings and spin control by their mother. 

 

Kim lording it over everyone else that she was "spokesperson" - could she have been any more obnoxious about that? And must she mention Kanye West in every episode?  And why was she "afraid" to tell him about Bruce?  Did she think he was going to crash the Diane Sawyer interview? Oh, wait...not too farfetched, I guess.

 

I understood where Bruce was coming from when he said he was only concerned about Kylee and Kendall, but it came out wrong - and if I were Khloe, it would have bothered me as well.  And again, I get back to the fact that if you're so concerned about them, why subject them to this dog and pony show? 

 

And where was Rob?  I guess he really is finished with them.

 

I didn't see this as a ratings grab (the show has been renewed until Kylie goes into retirement, it seems) or spin control.  What is the spin?  I think this family is the victim of its own Frankenstein's monster.  At this point in the game they have accepted that their life is lived on television.  It was the deal with the devil that they made - nothing is private and in return you will be wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.  And they are, but there are bigger costs and there has been collateral damage as well.  You didn't see Rob because Rob is a disgusting loser.  I'm not talking about being fat - plenty of people are fat but life goes on and fat people have whole lives.  Rob has no direction, no aspiration, no identity other than being the Kardashian brother.  He's a layabout and rather than just accept that, like Scott did, he is "ashamed".  Kim's take on Rob is also dead on and I feel NO sympathy for him.

 

As for Bruce, he's as much a player in this as any of them.  All the guns are leveled at Kris but Bruce Jenner is NOBODY's angel.  Even with Kendall and Kylie - he may have mastered in carpooling but he has NOT been a good father to them.  Kylie is almost as lost as Rob and her eyes are dead.  Not even out of high school and she seems used up to me.  Kendall managed to wriggle out from under with a literal hail mary - I thought she was rather homely most of her life, but she emerged a beauty at the 11th hour - and with that, her height, and her famous name - she is forging ahead in a new life that is all her own.  I wish her well.  That said, Bruce didn't give her much but her genes.  Bruce doesn't seem protective of them at all in this -he seems to be relishing being the center of attention.

Did being Mr. Mom satisfy some of those female/feminine/maternal yearnings?

 

Well it clearly didn't with the other FOUR children he left behind.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Timetoread

[iwasish]

If you remember, Khloe told him his breath was horrible, that's what got her to push him to see a dentist for his rotten teeth.  (ew, just ew)

Actually it was Kim who told Khloe..According to Kim she has a very sensitive nose and could smell the infection on him.   

[xls]

I didn't see this as a ratings grab (the show has been renewed until Kylie goes into retirement, it seems) or spin control.  What is the spin?  I think this family is the victim of its own Frankenstein's monster.  At this point in the game they have accepted that their life is lived on television.  It was the deal with the devil that they made - nothing is private and in return you will be wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.  And they are, but there are bigger costs and there has been collateral damage as well.  You didn't see Rob because Rob is a disgusting loser.  I'm not talking about being fat - plenty of people are fat but life goes on and fat people have whole lives.  Rob has no direction, no aspiration, no identity other than being the Kardashian brother.  He's a layabout and rather than just accept that, like Scott did, he is "ashamed".  Kim's take on Rob is also dead on and I feel NO sympathy for him.

 

As for Bruce, he's as much a player in this as any of them.  All the guns are leveled at Kris but Bruce Jenner is NOBODY's angel.  Even with Kendall and Kylie - he may have mastered in carpooling but he has NOT been a good father to them.  Kylie is almost as lost as Rob and her eyes are dead.  Not even out of high school and she seems used up to me.  Kendall managed to wriggle out from under with a literal hail mary - I thought she was rather homely most of her life, but she emerged a beauty at the 11th hour - and with that, her height, and her famous name - she is forging ahead in a new life that is all her own.  I wish her well.  That said, Bruce didn't give her much but her genes.  Bruce doesn't seem protective of them at all in this -he seems to be relishing being the center of attention.

 

Well it clearly didn't with the other FOUR children he left behind.

A big AMEN to that!

 

Rob can't look any worse than fat-ass Kim, no matter how much weight he gains.

[mwell345]

 

And screw you Khloe, you wanted more time to hang out with him? He's not going anywhere.

 

And I think it was last season where Bruce was saying that none of the girls seemed interested in spending time with him.  

.

[Shangrilala]

Here's what I learned from this episode:

 

Kylie has absolutely zero personality.  We thought Kourtney was dead behind the eyes?  Ladies and gentleman, we introduce Kylie.

 

Kendall thinks her sister looks idiotic.  

[xls]

And I think it was last season where Bruce was saying that none of the girls seemed interested in spending time with him.  

.

Ha! Poetic justice. What goes around comes around.

[thefog]

Kris especially annoyed me. They are divorced and have been for sometime. The marriage is over and done. What Bruce chooses to do now is his own business, don't try and make yourself the victim. Her tears over whether or not her memories of the good times they had together really meant something are self serving.. maybe Rob Sr. had those same feelings when she was running all over town getting laid?

 

One thing Bruce did say that stuck out, he used the Olympic Games and the years he spent training as a way to beat back the feelings he had. I think in some way marrying Kris, with her brood of kids, his own four and then having two more, the fact that he devoted his life to raising them and being the most involved parent ever, might have been an attempt to do the same thing. Did being Mr. Mom satisfy some of those female/feminine/maternal yearnings?

 

Khloe just came across as selfish and overly dramatic, what with the fur vest and the hat, the plumped up lips and the "I'm always team Bruce"

Kris and Bruce were married over 20 yrs.  They have only been divorced only a short time. Kris is part of Bruce's story, just like his first two wives.  The difference is that they've had a lot longer time to process it.  The Mr. Mom and female/feminine/maternal yearnings is such a stereotype.  Just like it is automatically assume that cross dressing is the same as being a transgender.

 

I thought the family's reactions were a lot more relatable and genuine - than that of his older kids - who really has a lesser relationship with Bruce.  I remember Diane Sawyer pressing Brandon - if it was as easy has he claim it to be - and he admitted otherwise.  

 

Khloe's attitude was born out of fear and lost than anything else.  And if Kim is giving Bruce some comfort, so be it.

[bichonblitz]

Bruce had his interview with Diane Sawyer. Now, he needs to step away from the camera's, do his transitioning in private and live the rest of his life as happily as he can.  I'm disappointed in Bruce because I thought once he managed to get away from that famewhore Kris, he would not be so anxious to stay in front of the camera's. The public really doesn't need to know any more, this is his business.  And I don't need to see his perfectly polished pink pedicure that he professionally did himself, or to hear what a skillful makeup artist he is. Enough, already! 

 

Kim as the spokesperson. They have managed to push Bruce's son's aside once again in favor of the most popular stepdaughter.  Shame on Bruce for letting that happen. 

[iwasish]

Ha! Poetic justice. What goes around comes around.

It's pretty clear from the things they all said that the family kept lots of secrets from each other and from the parents. Yet they give all kinds of lip service (no pun intended) to being so honest and truthful with each other. Kendall and Kylie think Dad is having an affair, yet say nothing. Kimmy sees him in a dress and tells only her sister for 12 years? Bruce walked around with painted toenails covered by socks, getting some satisfaction out of deceiving his family.

I wonder if Kris's exBFF who went out with Bruce to the concert knew his secret? I'd read somewhere that she was buying him feminine things.

 

 He had all kinds of plastic surgery and they never noticed or never commented on it.  He nearly cried over them trying to get him to cut his hair.

 

Is it my imagination or do Bruce and Kanye have absolutely no relationship?

[luvly]

I really wanted to side with Bruce more than I did, but Khloe was right more often than I feel comfortable admitting. I get that Bruce has had to hide things, that it might be hard to break that habit and that it might take some time but damn, at least show some remorse once you see it's hurt someone's feelings. I gave him a strong side-eye when he said something like "I didn't lie, I just didn't tell you." Nobody over the age of 21 should ever utter that phrase in earnest. I shook my head when his response to Khloe being upset that he didn't call her after she left his house in tears was, "You didn't call me either!". I gave up when he said Kendall and Kylie were his only concerns without at least tacking on "because they're young."

[xls]

Oh, this is all staged. Of course they all knew, families always somehow know-like if a member is gay, for instance, in the back of their mind they just sense/ know something is "different".Kris had dollar signs in her eyes. All the media attention and "leaked" photos were perfect opportunity to star Kim  in this big crocodile tear-filled, ratings-grab. They needed a "heel" for the story line so I gather Khloe was elected. 

They are such phonies!

 

I don't think Kanye has a relationship with anyone, doses he? And that poor baby of theirs always looks so sullen and unhappy.

[iwasish]

I really wanted to side with Bruce more than I did, but Khloe was right more often than I feel comfortable admitting. I get that Bruce has had to hide things, that it might be hard to break that habit and that it might take some time but damn, at least show some remorse once you see it's hurt someone's feelings. I gave him a strong side-eye when he said something like "I didn't lie, I just didn't tell you." Nobody over the age of 21 should ever utter that phrase in earnest. I shook my head when his response to Khloe being upset that he didn't call her after she left his house in tears was, "You didn't call me either!". I gave up when he said Kendall and Kylie were his only concerns without at least tacking on "because they're young."

Why did he have to call her after she left? She's a grown woman. And she shows up all cheerful bringing him presents (hooker heels!!!) acting as if this is some little Barbie dress up thing he plays at and she's going to be the great and accepting Khloe, who keeps it real. But she gets pissed when she finds out that other people know more than she does and that Bruce made decisions about his life without talking to her about it!! How dare he!  I recall this very scenario in those episodes leading up to her wedding and how she played word games about whether or not she was engaged or planning a wedding. Then she throws shade on Kylie and Kendall by saying she's known Bruce "longer" than they have? What the hell is that? If push came to shove Khloe would stand with her mother, Kim at least is honest about that. I don't see that Kendall and Kylie are upset or even concerned over Kris's reaction. I don't even get Kris's reaction... She barely had a relationship with him after the divorce despite all her comments about what great pals and buddies they are and how they talk hundreds of times a day. Clearly that was all just BS, cause Bruce himself said he hadn't spoken to her in months. These people have lived their lives according to a script so long they no longer know real from reality. And Kim's loyalty to her mother doesn't keep her from beaming ear to ear and bragging that Bruce thinks she is the best spokesperson for the family and he wants her there front and center and even though she feels for her mom, this is sooo important. More selfies for me!!! More interviews... more chances to expose my tits and ass!!.

[bagatelle]

And screw you Khloe, you wanted more time to hang out with him? He's not going anywhere.

 

Remember when the whole family knew she was getting married and she never told Bruce.  No one in that family ever respected him, maybe his secret life, which they knew a bit about, was partially why. Nevertheless, she had no interest in involving him in her new relationship and wedding.

 

Even with Kendall and Kylie - he may have mastered in carpooling but he has NOT been a good father to them.  Kylie is almost as lost as Rob and her eyes are dead.  Not even out of high school and she seems used up to me.  

 

He let Kylie drop out of high school. That's how much he cared.

[Artsda]

 

Kim as the spokesperson. They have managed to push Bruce's son's aside once again in favor of the most popular stepdaughter.  Shame on Bruce for letting that happen.

 

I wonder if they knew she was invited to the meeting with Diane Sawyer and not them. If they didn't she does now. Or it may have been her and Brandon for the other side.

[Misslindsey]

 

I wonder if they knew she was invited to the meeting with Diane Sawyer and not them. If they didn't she does now. Or it may have been her and Brandon for the other side.

I might be misremembering, but I thought Brandon was the spokesperson for the Jenner side, but the other Jenner kids (not Kendall and Kylie) wanted to speak as well and showed up/contacted production. 

 

 

I don't even get Kris's reaction... She barely had a relationship with him after the divorce despite all her comments about what great pals and buddies they are and how they talk hundreds of times a day. Clearly that was all just BS, cause Bruce himself said he hadn't spoken to her in months. These people have lived their lives according to a script so long they no longer know real from reality.

So true. Kris has some romanticized version of the last few years or more of her marriage to Bruce. She treated him like crap. Maybe she liked that she could order Bruce around and such. From the old photos it looked like Kris shared a lot of Bruce's interests ( golf, ATVs, etc.). I would have never knew Kris liked Bruce's hobbies before she became a professional fame whore if I had not seen those pictures. I am sure they did have good times, but I do not think the last so many years or so of their marriage was as great as Kris is trying to paint them to be.

[bagatelle]

So true. Kris has some romanticized version of the last few years or more of her marriage to Bruce. She treated him like crap. Maybe she liked that she could order Bruce around and such. 

 

She did the same thing with Rob Sr -- romanticized her relationship with him.

 

Kris cries very easily.  Some people do, and in her case, it means nothing.

[iwasish]

I might be misremembering, but I thought Brandon was the spokesperson for the Jenner side, but the other Jenner kids (not Kendall and Kylie) wanted to speak as well and showed up/contacted production. 

 

So true. Kris has some romanticized version of the last few years or more of her marriage to Bruce. She treated him like crap. Maybe she liked that she could order Bruce around and such. From the old photos it looked like Kris shared a lot of Bruce's interests ( golf, ATVs, etc.). I would have never knew Kris liked Bruce's hobbies before she became a professional fame whore if I had not seen those pictures. I am sure they did have good times, but I do not think the last so many years or so of their marriage was as great as Kris is trying to paint them to be.

I remember them early on, they were on all the talk shows and hawking work out stuff. they really seemed happy together. I think Kris eventually wanted to be rich and famous.. a celebrity, and also be a mover and a shaker in the business, Bruce became less social and more introverted I guess as the inner struggle grew greater. The less time he and Kris spent together, the more he withdrew and the elephant in the room was never addressed. I think Kris was scared that eventually the secret would get out and blow up her empire. I think she resents Bruce for ruining the image she has so carefully created.. why couldn't he have just stayed in Malibu and played dress up like he'd done for years. Why rock the boat? And now that he opened up this Pandora's box, Kris feels she has to take control, but Bruce has shut her out. So Kim steps in to worm her way into the inner circle and get up to date information on what's doing with Bruce, so that Kris can try to manipulate the press and come out as sympathetic.

[Timetoread]

I remember them early on, they were on all the talk shows and hawking work out stuff. they really seemed happy together. I think Kris eventually wanted to be rich and famous.. a celebrity, and also be a mover and a shaker in the business, Bruce became less social and more introverted I guess as the inner struggle grew greater. The less time he and Kris spent together, the more he withdrew and the elephant in the room was never addressed. I think Kris was scared that eventually the secret would get out and blow up her empire. I think she resents Bruce for ruining the image she has so carefully created.. why couldn't he have just stayed in Malibu and played dress up like he'd done for years. Why rock the boat? And now that he opened up this Pandora's box, Kris feels she has to take control, but Bruce has shut her out. So Kim steps in to worm her way into the inner circle and get up to date information on what's doing with Bruce, so that Kris can try to manipulate the press and come out as sympathetic.

I don't get this.  So basically Bruce is an innocent angel that let life happen around him? Or some victim who was abused by the mean old Kris who thrust fame, money and children on him like the Satanic Bride that she is?  Bruce has ALWAYS been a famewhore himself.  He left the church girl who paid his way through the Olympics and dropped her, midmarriage and post natal, for the prettier and more famous blonde and showed himself in every venue available: magazines, tv shows, sports shows, horrible gay movies.  Don't think for a second Bruce wasn't aware of the circle Kris Kardashian ran in and the advantages to himself on that regard.  Don't think for one second Bruce didn't co-sign on Kris becoming his manager and bringing him back from obscurity for a quasi-career in "motivational speaking".  Don't think for one second Bruce didn't love the attention and money Keeping up with the Kardashians brought to him.  If he were so righteous he would have divorced Kris to save his younger two, not for himself.  Bruce is no freakin victim.

 

I fail to see how this whole thing is a PR win for Kris.  She was this man's beard for 20 years.  That sucks.  He decides to come out publicly and she was both his most recent wife and the wife he was with the longest - what choices does she have?  If she says nothing, she's resentful.  If she is upset, she hates gays and transgenders.  If she is happy, it's because their marriage was a sham and she always knew he was a woman.  If she plays supportive she's spinning it.  There is no win.  She got played by him for decades.  I'm sure she's spitting nails - I would be.  The other two wives dodged the bullet and went on to have wonderful lives without him and this decision doesn't affect the lives of their own minor children.  Of course they are supportive and at peace with a situation that doesn't touch them in any way.   I don't particularly like Kris but I think it is really unfair that she is blamed for this and for ALOT of things that aren't her fault.  I also think that this is the very reason Kim is always defending Kris on air because Kim, moreso than the others, scours the internet for all mentions of herself and her "brand".  She knows how universally hated Kris is.  Though much of it is deserved, Kris is her mother.  My father is no angel but I DARE someone to bad mouth him to my face.  Regardless of his guilt, I will promptly drop that person with prejudice.  I get it.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Timetoread

[Artsda]

 

I remember them early on, they were on all the talk shows and hawking work out stuff. they really seemed happy together. I think Kris eventually wanted to be rich and famous.. a celebrity, and also be a mover and a shaker in the business, Bruce became less social and more introverted I guess as the inner struggle grew greater. The less time he and Kris spent together, the more he withdrew and the elephant in the room was never addressed. I think Kris was scared that eventually the secret would get out and blow up her empire. I think she resents Bruce for ruining the image she has so carefully created.. why couldn't he have just stayed in Malibu and played dress up like he'd done for years. Why rock the boat? And now that he opened up this Pandora's box, Kris feels she has to take control, but Bruce has shut her out. So Kim steps in to worm her way into the inner circle and get up to date information on what's doing with Bruce, so that Kris can try to manipulate the press and come out as sympathetic.

 

I don't see how anywhere in this special about Bruce how Kris is the devil incarnate manipulating him and everything about this special where as Bruce has nothing to do with it and the is the victim. Kris has barely said a word until the special, all the kids never said a thing before Diane Sawyer. 

 

Unlike Bruce's own mother that gave a tell all. All Kris and the 6 kids do is praise Bruce, but yet it's still them being the devil. Bruce himself appointed Kim as family spokesperson, but that's manipulated and turned around to be all Kim and Kris's doing? That's ridiculous. 

[bichonblitz]

Remember when the whole family knew she was getting married and she never told Bruce.  No one in that family ever respected him, maybe his secret life, which they knew a bit about, was partially why. Nevertheless, she had no interest in involving him in her new relationship and wedding.

 

 

He let Kylie drop out of high school. That's how much he cared.

Yes, they all treated him like shit. Like a guest in his own home. Every single one of them. Including Kendall and Kylie. And he put up with the disrespect for years. He mentioned in is Diane Sawyer interview that he was alone most of the time. It's really very sad. You can believe once all this dies down, he will be even more alone. Nobody cared about him when he finally split with Kris. He said that himself. Hardly anybody ever came to see him. It will be that way again soon. I hope he finds new friends, and maybe even a new love.  

[iwasish]

Why is Kim out there spreading the word that she's met "Her" and she's beautiful and all made up and dressed beautifully  etc?  I thought Bruce wanted privacy? Kim's remarks are clearly meant to drive public interest in the show and in Bruce's appearance. The paparazzi will be out stalking him day and night. I knew once the Kardashians got a hand on this it would turn into a feeding frenzy. And Kim, gushing over "her"  don't you think poor mommy Kris who does so much for all of you and cries every day about this might be a bit upset to see you beaming and practically bragging over the fact that you are in the "inner circle" and have met "her"? Has Khloe gotten to meet her, she'll be whining and pouting if she hasn't..

[Artsda]

 

Why is Kim out there spreading the word that she's met "Her" and she's beautiful and all made up and dressed beautifully  etc?  I thought Bruce wanted privacy? Kim's remarks are clearly meant to drive public interest in the show and in Bruce's appearance. The paparazzi will be out stalking him day and night. I knew once the Kardashians got a hand on this it would turn into a feeding frenzy.

 

And why is this all on attacking Kim and the Kardashians? Why is none of it on Bruce?

 

Bruce is the one giving the go ahead, made Kim spokesperson, if Bruce wants them silent, like they were before Diane Sawyer. Then they're silent. If Bruce wants spokeswoman out there doing interviews then that's what they're doing. 

 

Bruce is doing yet another reality show all about his transition, that's not someone who wants privacy. He's a member of this "reality show" family, he's not this super private person that is being forced by big bad Kris and Kim to do things like Diane Sawyer, specials on E! or his own spin off for his transition on E!. He's making those choices on his own and milking this all on his own. He's been quietly getting ready for this surgery and not even telling Kendall. What if they weren't ok with it? He's so full steam ahead with interviews and reality shows, the kids reaction didn't seem like a first thought.

 

So I fail to see how "once the Kardshians got a hand in this ...." comes in. This is all Bruce.

Edited May 18, 2015 by Artsda

[Maya]

It's all of them. It's Bruce, for being selfish and arrogant and marrying Kris and fathering two more children, when he already knew that he could not spend the rest of his life as a man.

 

This 2-night Kardashian "Bruce Special" is all Kris, when she saw what a positive response Bruce got after the Diane Sawyer interview, she wanted a piece of the pie.

 

It's Khloe, Kim and Kourtney for acting shocked and betrayed, even though they must have known prior to January that Bruce was full-on transitioning, since that's the reason Kris and Bruce divorced. (Except Kourtney, who can't act for shit, and delivered all her lines last night in an unsurprised monotone).

[autumnh]

I loved it. My first husband committed suicide because he was too afraid to come out and talk about his gender identity. He was 27...I was 22...this was back in 1989 when you did NOT speak about it. I knew and I tried as best I could to help him....it was not enough. It broke my heart and for us families who try to help but who cannot...it is the worst thing ever. 

[venusnv80]

I felt for Khloe and Kendall the most. They kind of broke my heart, Kendall especially. I did feel as if there was a knife through Khloe's heart when Bruce said he was only worried about Kendall and Kylie. That was HORRIBLE for him to say. He can't one minute whine and moan about Khloe not picking him to walk her down the aisle and then say something so hurtful. I don't care HOW old anyone is, this news would devastate anyone. 

[Scarlett45]

I loved it. My first husband committed suicide because he was too afraid to come out and talk about his gender identity. He was 27...I was 22...this was back in 1989 when you did NOT speak about it. I knew and I tried as best I could to help him....it was not enough. It broke my heart and for us families who try to help but who cannot...it is the worst thing ever.

I'm so sorry for your loss, and the rest of your husband's loved ones.

It did touch me when Kylie (?) stated that she didn't want anyone to treat Bruce badly. Thankful Bruce has money that affords him certain protections, but many trans-people face the threat of violence regularly.

Khole has a lot of vaults but I believe her emotions for Bruce are genuine. She's got to be conflicted regarding losing "him" and possibly projecting her own issues with hiding her own marital problems with Lamar onto Bruce and his gender identity, and "hiding" that from the family.

[trimthatfat]

I liked the special and I thought Khloe's reaction was honest. It's much easier for the older Jenner's because it's been well documented that there were years when they didn't see him and they haven't always been close to him, so there is some emotional distance. This makes it a lot easier for them to handle.

 

Khloe was raised by Bruce and they have always been close. I think her questions toward Bruce were perfectly legitimate. And I believe she's allowed to be upset - being upset has nothing to do with her not supporting him - and it's easy to judge someone reaction when it's not your own father.

 

Bruce is a very likable person, but he he has some selfish tendencies in the parenting department and isn't terribly aware of other peoples feelings. Khloe was pressing him in areas he didn't want or wasn't ready to talk about and that's why he got upset.

Well said. I totally understood why she was so hurt and upset, and it didn't help that Bruce explicitly said he was more concerned about Kendall and Kylie than the other kids. I don't think he meant the way it came out, but it clearly cut Khloe deeply. I am glad that Bruce gets to live his truth and I feel for him that he spent 65 years suppressing his true identity, but I also think he is being a tad insensitive to Khloe. There was a cattiness to his tone that rubbed me the wrong way.

 

Surprisingly, I adore Kendall. What a sweet kid.

 

I think Bruce's relationship with the Kardashian kids is very complicated. It was jarring to hear Khloe refer to Bruce as her dad when for several seasons, it has seemed that they were pushing him away and didn't care about him either way.

[Lesia]

Who are the idiot sycophants who prepared those boards for Kim's re-launch of her website?  She claims she wants to stay relevant.  What does she even do?  The ass kissing is just pathetic.  Like those dolts with her app. Lame.

[autumnh]

All I can say is that it is VERY easy to watch a tv show and post in a forum about a topic especially when you have not had to live it. I am not usually a kill joy but...for some of us? we have lived it and we have suffered the pain that is causes.  I understand the need to snark since inherently it is a snark board..but some of us in the  audience have had to deal with....losing a family member to suicide because they could not be who they are is horrible....we should all be thankful that trans people today can be who they are.....

Edited May 19, 2015 by autumnh

[parisprincess]

I am glad that Bruce gets to live his truth and I feel for him that he spent 65 years suppressing his true identity, but I also think he is being a tad insensitive to Khloe. There was a cattiness to his tone that rubbed me the wrong way.

 

His tone reminded me of the conversation he had with Brody where he basically told Brody to get over the fact that he (Bruce) had been a bad dad.  His four oldest kids had to hurt a lot over the years, watching Bruce treat his stepkids like his own while ignoring them.  Of course, Kris could have encouraged him to spend time with them and include them in his life, but I doubt that ever happened because all she cares about is her kids and herself. 

 

I have no sympathy for Kris or the three oldest girls.  There have been so many instances shown where they all barely tolerated Bruce.  Good lord, Kris even considered changing her name back to Kardashian.  Her tears are bullshit.  I wonder if she cries when she's fucking her young stud.  Hell, we've seen her cry over Robert K, the guy she had no problem screwing around on when they were married.  IMO, she's a cold hearted bitch, only interested in how much money she can make off her family.

[nexxie]

Don't get it - why is Kris so confused if Bruce had breasts when they met (which he then had removed)?

The segment with Kris did seem to be all about managing her reputation, and she seemed to be acting.

Edited May 19, 2015 by nexxie

[iwasish]

I think when he stopped taking hormones they went away.

I did feel a small twinge of sympathy for her, but can't shake the feeling that she wanted to have her moment in the spotlight. Even if Bruce was angry and difficult at times she knew of this issue and it seems neither of them was honest enough to bring it out and deal with it. The kids all hid what they knew about Bruce, that's something they learned within the home. It probably goes back to when Kris and Rob Sr were breaking up, Kris used to have her boyfriend over the house in front of all the kids and I'm sure they knew to not tell daddy.

Scott was great. I guess Kanye and Bruce have no relationship at all.

[bagatelle]

It certainly seemed that scene was for Kris to tell her side and I bet she planned her speech for months. I'm kinda sorry Bruce didn't interject a bit more and refute some things she said.

 

The whole second segment seemed like repetition of what happened in the first episode.

[iwasish]

I am happy Bruce gets to be who he wants to be. I also don't fault anyone for their reactions- however Kim's seemed very "not real" to me. Something about it just felt off. Even Khloe's while not the best felt honest and real to me. No one is going to have a perfect response to things like this. Because in the real world, things happen and you feel and the world will feel and tell you, "this is how you act, this is what you should say". Real life isn't like that. Things happen and human beings react naturally.

I don't think Kim has real emotions, or at least she isn't in touch with them. I think she evaluates the situation and then acts in whatever way she feels will best benefit her and be seen in the best light. She was practically breathless with excitement at being a part of Bruce's team and be able to get all the info first hand. And running home to report to mommy about how everything went... It's just so self serving on her part. It seems to me that she can accept it so easily because she isn't all that emotionally

invested in it.

[Veronique Bette]

As soon as the cameras come on, filming such a sensitive and raw event in a “reality” family’s life and in that "reality" format, they lose me. If this is real, then there should be no national audience gaping and listening in. If this is fake, the family members are all being co-opted to act out a script rather than privately processing a life-altering development for all of them. Kendall and Kylie have been part of this circus since they were very little girls so for them there has never been a shield or curtain to divide their private life from what the public has privy to. Neither Kris nor Bruce has ever tried to protect their two young daughters from this kind of media feeding frenzy.The older Jenners and Kardashians can do what they want, but I don’t think it’s correct for teenage girls to have to publicly share and be judged on their reactions to such an intimately emotional and momentous time in their lives.

[iwasish]

It certainly seemed that scene was for Kris to tell her side and I bet she planned her speech for months. I'm kinda sorry Bruce didn't interject a bit more and refute some things she said.

The whole second segment seemed like repetition of what happened in the first episode.

He told her he had been taking hormones... and her response is but not for how long? WTF? Did she really think he took hormones for a day or two or even s month or two? She doesn't ask any questions? She has 4 kids, I'd think even his admission of cross dressing might have given her a reason to take things slow but no, she marries him in 5 months. But the hormones should have been a huge red flag. Neither Bruce or Kris is being 100% honest, they each have rewritten history to their advantage.

[iwasish]

Who are the idiot sycophants who prepared those boards for Kim's re-launch of her website? She claims she wants to stay relevant. What does she even do? The ass kissing is just pathetic. Like those dolts with her app. Lame.

She wants to do arty things, have fun and be nude. All very worthwhile ambitions. For a Kardashian.

[FuriousStyles]

Havent watched this show in years. Seems Kris is just as self-serving a selfish as ever.

90% of the conversation she was talking about HER pain, and what his issues did to her.

I was surprised when she said something about him cross dressing and its something he did every so often. Red flag!

I dont know who to believe honestly. I just cant imagine living that kind of lie for 20 plus yeas and even longer if you count his other marriages. But I know it happens.

Regardless, I hope Bruce can kind some happiness finally and enjoy living his life.

Side note....Kendall is starting to look exactly like Kim. I hope that girl isnt doing plastic surgery so young.

Speaking of kim, she gets some cool points for hanging out with bruce and raiding his girl closet. That was a nice moment.

Edited May 19, 2015 by FuriousStyles

[Artsda]

Scott was really great, supportive to Bruce, for the everything going on. His reacting to the fact nobody ever told him anything the entire time he's been in the family. His cluelessness even after the adams apple surgery was funny. His "I'm perfect, everyone around me is messed up" was hilarious.

 

Calling him "MaD" as short form for mom and dad was cute. 

 

I liked Kim going through the clothes and throwing out what she didn't approve of. And seeing the makeup he stole. lol It looked new to her and she was just being there for him.

 

Kris letting herself be filmed with running make up, wow. I do think it's hard for her even though she and the others knew he liked to dress up as a woman. I don't think any of them knew the depth of Bruce's inner battle. It was the taboo thing to talk about that Scott even has been in this family for so  long and was clueless about it all. 

 

Khloe is struggling but she's right, there's no set way to handle this. Although she's handling it worse than Kendall the teenager, Khloe has suffered more loss and has had Bruce as her dad living with her everyday since she was 4, so she's right there's no set way. Bruce was the car pool, family vacation with the camcorder dad to them. 

 

I think one of the most shocking or interesting thing to me was that Bruce has Robert Kardashian's bed in his bedroom.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Artsda

[iwasish]

I think he died in that bed. That even makes it weirder.

[njmama]

Did Kris always have blue eyes? The whole time she was crying I thought, when did her eyes change color? Her glasses were in front of her on the counter so they weren't contacts. Random observation.

Another random, that upper lip lift Bruce got is not doing him any favors. He now talks exactly like The Joker talking to Vicki Vale at the art gallery circa first Batman movie.

That was my snarkiness showing but bottom line, I am glad that Bruce is finally able to free himself to be who he wants. He will be helping countless people who are struggling.

Edited May 19, 2015 by njmama

[tvallthetime]

I appreciated what seemed like real reactions to Bruce's transition. I can't fault anyone for their response. Few of us are rational when we're dealing with something intensely emotional. Yes, Bruce is the one transitioning, but he's also had longer to deal with it than the rest of the family. They have a right to process their feelings too. He isn't the only one impacted.

Khloe could have been more generous with him, but I think she's truly hurt and grieving. As Bruce said, there is no right way to handle this. Ultimately, it seems that they all support him, but how they reach that point is different for each of them.

Most of the time I think this family is full of it, but their reactions seem as close to reality as they've shown in awhile. It's also the first time I think I've learned something from watching The Kardashians/Jenners.

Edited May 19, 2015 by tvallthetime

[Timetoread]

I am happy Bruce gets to be who he wants to be. I also don't fault anyone for their reactions- however Kim's seemed very "not real" to me. Something about it just felt off. Even Khloe's while not the best felt honest and real to me. No one is going to have a perfect response to things like this. Because in the real world, things happen and you feel and the world will feel and tell you, "this is how you act, this is what you should say". Real life isn't like that. Things happen and human beings react naturally. 

 

I think Kim and Kourtney receive this with the most composure because while Bruce was a beloved "stepdad", they had the most years growing up with their real dad.  They are probably the most protective of their mother in regards to viewing her as their one "parent", since Bruce did not raise them.  They also knew some of the truth about him and kept it to themselves and are most likely relieved.  Also, as the two oldest of that family unit, they most likely want to keep strong and set the tone for the younger ones.  The crying children were the ones who had him pick them up every day at school, who he raised, who felt the sting of his divorce with Kris as "Mommy and Daddy breaking up."  Kim and Kourt felt that and to some extent still feel that about Kris and Robert.  Kim and Kourtney love Bruce but he is not their dad.  From Khloe on down, he is.

 

As soon as the cameras come on, filming such a sensitive and raw event in a “reality” family’s life and in that "reality" format, they lose me. If this is real, then there should be no national audience gaping and listening in. If this is fake, the family members are all being co-opted to act out a script rather than privately processing a life-altering development for all of them. Kendall and Kylie have been part of this circus since they were very little girls so for them there has never been a shield or curtain to divide their private life from what the public has privy to. Neither Kris nor Bruce has ever tried to protect their two young daughters from this kind of media feeding frenzy.The older Jenners and Kardashians can do what they want, but I don’t think it’s correct for teenage girls to have to publicly share and be judged on their reactions to such an intimately emotional and momentous time in their lives.

 

I think they feel that they have to.  How "real" would their reality show be if they didn't address this?  We saw Mason and Penelope leave Kourtney's vagina.  Are we really expecting them to be too shy to deal with this?  I'm also sure in their own narcisistic way that they feel that it is their story to tell - not the tabloids, not even Diane Sawyer.  They are the ones closest to him - they have their own cameras, it is their story to break.

 

Also, I feel like the younger ones really feel that this could help all the young transgender people who are suffering and being victimized.  If this helps them, then I agree with it.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Timetoread