Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[Fuzzysox]

What happened with Branden and his temper?

[Sew Sumi]

It was the way he basically accused Michael of lying to him by way of deception when she surprised him at school. She looked hurt and backed off, speaking Gothard jargon, as she weakly defended her actions. His actions gave me chills; she can be so easily abused without him laying a finger on her.

[RazzleberryPie]

It was the way he basically accused Michael of lying to him by way of deception when she surprised him at school. She looked hurt and backed off, speaking Gothard jargon, as she weakly defended her actions. His actions gave me chills; she can be so easily abused without him laying a finger on her.

Was this on the Bates' show?

[becca3891]

Also, I'm not someone who is taking the police report as "truth." I think the Duggar tend to use language to shield themselves. "Church Elders" sounds reasonable enough, but if they were some baptist offshoot like they claim, wouldn't they have said Deacons? I think they said "church elders" because it was NOT local and they didn't want to lie outright, but it was close enough to regular "churchy" terminology that no one would press them on it.

That's an interesting angle. They absolutely do use language to shield themselves. "Correction" during blanket training, as they called it, had a much nicer ring to it than "beating with a rod." They also love to say "We personally feel/feel convicted" when in reality they stand in judgment on most people who don't follow all their bizarre rules. However, don't most churches have both deacons and elders on the local level? My Reformed Presbyterian Church growing up did, and when they gathered together nationally it was called the Synod. It may be different with Baptists, though.

 

Was this on the Bates' show?

Yes, it was on Bringing Up Bates, shown on the UP channel. I'm not sure if they can be found anywhere online but UP may well be airing reruns, if you get the channel, because I think their new season starts soon.

[RazzleberryPie]

Yes, it was on Bringing Up Bates, shown on the UP channel. I'm not sure if they can be found anywhere online but UP may well be airing reruns, if you get the channel, because I think their new season starts soon.

That's disheartening to hear, and a huge red flag to me that he's either controlling or up to something and doesn't want her there.

[BitterApple]

Was this on the Bates' show?

Yes, it was really bizarre. He kept repeating "you lied to me" over and over like she lied about her previous job as a stripper in Vegas as opposed to a harmless white lie so she could surprise him for his birthday.

Eta: Who the hell is the idiot in the green shirt that won't let a bunch of toddlers open Easter Eggs? What a tool.

Edited June 1, 2015 by BitterApple

[lookeyloo]

I have said before and I still believe that Michael is way more into Brandon than he is to her.

[Fuzzysox]

I have said before and I still believe that Michael is way more into Brandon than he is to her.

I've always through it was the other way around. Kelly kinda pushed Michael into it. Remember when they first started courting that he wrote a creepy I love you poem to Michael? IDK he gives me the creeps.

I sure hope Michaela will adjust to living in Chicago. She will probably be neighbors with Prissy and TFDW. Lucky girl! I'm jealous.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[kellylovessnark]

Who in the heck names their daughter Michael? Since they have had plenty of boys, they could have used it on one of them. Or just go with Micheala (or However it is spelled).

Now it looks like two men are trying to get married. I would assume that they would not want to give people the wrong idea. Sorry if this is off topics, but it's something that bugs me.

[JenCarroll]

Resurrection Eggs ~ A Fun Easter Illustration

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zXc7VdaTQs

 

Posted by David Waller

So. boring. Did he think he was actually communicating anything to those kids? Jeez, what an ass.

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that's Robert Staddon. He's pretty insufferable. 

[kalamac]

Who in the heck names their daughter Michael? Since they have had plenty of boys, they could have used it on one of them. Or just go with Micheala (or However it is spelled).

Now it looks like two men are trying to get married. I would assume that they would not want to give people the wrong idea. Sorry if this is off topics, but it's something that bugs me.

I believe they said she was named for Michal, a biblical character - the daughter of King Saul.

[Sew Sumi]

RIght. However, they somehow discovered that Michal did not embody biblical womanhood or some such garbage and went to to the courthouse change her name. They found that they could only alter one letter without being charged, so her name became Michael. Females named Michael aren't without precedence (remember Michael Learned from The Waltons?). But she seems to go interchangably between either Michael or Michealla. But legally, she's definitely just Michael. 

[Darknight]

I wonder what all these other fundie, ATI and IBPL families are thinking about the Duggars now. A pretty big spotlight is being shined on their world because of them and it isn't to show how wonderful they all are.

Well ATI already turned on the Duggars. JimChelle isn't popular in their group. I hope ATI is exposed even more. Raising your child in a cult should be illegal.

[becca3891]

Who in the heck names their daughter Michael? Since they have had plenty of boys, they could have used it on one of them. Or just go with Micheala (or However it is spelled).

Now it looks like two men are trying to get married. I would assume that they would not want to give people the wrong idea. Sorry if this is off topics, but it's something that bugs me.

Ha. You would think anything that would even hint at gay marriage or non-traditional gender roles would be a huge no-no for them. Personally, I think it's a pretty name for a girl, but I am a liberal agnostic who applauds parents allowing their little boys to dress in pink tutus if that's what they like. I don't think I had heard the story about Michal being the original spelling and them deciding the character in the bible didn't represent biblical womanhood. I just looked it up and the story is interesting. She was deceptive and not very obedient/submissive so I understand where they were going with that. ;p 

 

But Boob must have approved of them only changing one letter of her name so they could save the difference! I'm sure god was very relieved to see the extra E, too. Even though it's only a translation of the Hebrew anyway, and Michael is just as good a translation as Michal, so what exactly they thought they were accomplishing is unclear. It's like my name, Rebecca, which a church member once told me "wasn't the biblical spelling." What??? It's Hebrew. Just because many translations traditionally spelled it Rebekah is irrelevant. They're pronounced the same so one is as good as another. Okay, way off topic here!

[bybrandy]

Went to college with a girl named Michael.   It suited her.  I have a boys name that i rebelled against for most of my childhood and now really like, except I don't really self identify with that name because I've always been called something else.

[becca3891]

So. boring. Did he think he was actually communicating anything to those kids? Jeez, what an ass.

This had me dying laughing. His audience was way too young and really, isn't it enough to cram the bible down their throats every day, could you really not just let them find eggs with candy in them one day a year? TFDW's comments and corrections were priceless too. On a more depressing note, Robert Staddon is the one who married Kendalyn, the young woman who wanted to go to medical school, but her Gothardite father "had a caution" about it and she instead got a "home health" certificate by doing a Gothard correspondence course. That story breaks my heart so much.

Edited June 1, 2015 by becca3891

[mbutterfly]

So. boring. Did he think he was actually communicating anything to those kids? Jeez, what an ass.

I've never been fond of Resurrection Eggs, but they've been around as a teaching tool for Children's Message time or Children's Chapel for many moons (a small pun based upon the lunar timing of Easter). They are not used with toddlers usually. The teacher hands one at a time to a child (selecting the one for the next bit of the story) and that child opens it for all to see. TFDW is not fabulous in teaching children. 

Edited June 1, 2015 by mbutterfly

[Skittl1321]

I believe they said she was named for Michal, a biblical character - the daughter of King Saul.

I can't find the blog post where Kelly explained, but apparently they first named her Michal, but then they found out the biblical name they chose was actually a bit of an unsavory character and did not want to use that name. She said it cost a lot of money to change the name, and not very much money to respell the name, so they changed it to Michael.

 

She answers to Michaela and Michael, but she prefers Michael and her siblings call her Mikey.   (blogpost comments: http://thebatesfamily.com/love-in-the-air/)

 

 

Edit to add: Here is Kelly's post. From the same link above actually.

 

Michael was originally named “Michal,” after David’s wife in the Bible. When I read through my Bible for the first time that same year, I realized Michal wasn’t the ideal role model. We contacted about changing her name and discovered we could make a slight change in the spelling for free if she was still under a year old. Not being creative enough to add a “y” or something like that, we just added an “e” to make the traditional spelling of “Michael.” It has a beautiful meaning, and although it is typically used as a masculine name, we found several other women with that name.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Skittl1321

[TomServo]

Who in the heck names their daughter Michael? Since they have had plenty of boys, they could have used it on one of them. Or just go with Micheala (or However it is spelled).

 

Michael Lerned's, Michael Michelle's, and Michael Steele's parents, apparently.  Oh, and the Bateses.

 

I've always thought Michael Michelle must have a sense of humor because Michelle is another form of Michael.  Kind of like when you meet someone named John who has a son named Ian.  It's John Jr. without the suffix.  Also, if you watched that Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman show, the title character's name was Michaela but they called her "Dr. Mike." 

 

I've been told that Michal (or Mychal, as I've also seen it spelled since the pronunciation changes with just the i in the first syllable) is the Hebrew version of the American name Brooke.  With the "el" on the end, the meaning changes and it becomes "He who is closest to (or like) God" and is the name of the archangel in the Bible.

What's always been interesting to me about that story is that the Bateses don't even blink about admitting that they didn't know who Michal actually was at that point in their lives.  She's not a totally insignificant character in the Old Testament.  Saul used her to try to get to David, she loved him at first but ended up despising him because he didn't act uppity enough, he told her off, she ended up barren as a punishment so the lineage of Christ went through a different wife even though she was the first, and the whole nine yards.  My first graders have covered it (although obviously not ALL the details).  Sometimes I get the impression that some of these evangelical churches only spend their time in Psalms, Proverbs, and Leviticus.

[Absolom]

And the Pauline letters, can't forget those.

[Skittl1321]

 

What's always been interesting to me about that story is that the Bateses don't even blink about admitting that they didn't know who Michal actually was at that point in their lives.

 

Were they "saved" at this point?  I don't know their "testimony".  Perhaps they really were new to the faith, and just picked a pretty Bible name.

[GEML]

Kelly says one of the things that attracted her to Gil was how impassioned he was about God. So Im assuming they were both religious.

But i can't tell you how many fanatically religious people I know who have never read their Bible and are happy to just let other people tell them what it says. Drives me crazy.

[kellylovessnark]

For as long as she doesn't mind being Michael, that's all that really matters. As for Gil and Kelly, they did have 9 months to think of a name. There really should not be any mistakes.

[truthtalk2014]

OMG - the eggs.  Can someone shoot me please?  That guy makes me want to shove a couple of those eggs in his mouth.  I think his voice irritates me more than Priscilla.  

 

He's a greedy little thing that wouldn't even let the children open their own eggs!  The little girl tried to touch the book and he quickly grabbed it from her.  Horrible!  That was no fun for those kids.  

[GEML]

Dude had to refer to the book! Amateur.

[mbutterfly]

And the Pauline letters, can't forget those.

Especially the later ones that may not actually have been written by the same Paul who wrote "In Christ there is neither male nor female."

Dude had to refer to the book! Amateur.

I know, as if the symbol-object wasn't obvious enough. And then the 12 pieces of silver LOL

[3 is enough]

The video?  WTF??? They are TODDLERS, for God's sake.  "Light" orange?  Thorns?  A whip?  What the hell is wrong with these people?

 

That's enough to traumatize kids about Easter for the rest of their lives.

 

I did laugh when the meltdowns started.  Serves those sanctimonious twits right for trying to teach little kids something WAY over their heads.

 

And no, David, that was NOT really fun.  Not at all.

[BitterApple]

Omg, TWELVE pieces of silver?! Seriously Robert?! Jesus being sold out for thirty pieces of silver is probably one of the best known stories in the Bible, aside from the Crucifixion. Jeez, he's boring those poor kids to tears and he can't even get his facts straight!

[GEML]

I honestly would hate to tell you some of the stories I was told growing up. Not Bible stories mind you, but "moral tales". One involved a father whipping himself in front of his son rather than whipping his son...and I was younger than five.

I also had a series of comic books that included THE HIDING PLACE and the story of a girl growing up in the Nazi youth that includes a rape scene. I wasn't yet ten.

In some ways Fundy kids are sheltered. In other ways, we know WAY too much.

[truthtalk2014]

The video?  WTF??? They are TODDLERS, for God's sake.  "Light" orange?  Thorns?  A whip?  What the hell is wrong with these people?

 

 

Exactly!  I was pulling for TFDW to correct the guy and say that the whip is what Mommy and Daddy play with in the bedroom just before making another blessing. (Said in a  loud screechy but sweet annoying voice.)  Otherwise, I was seriously feeling bad for the kids.

 

 I wanted to applaud when the baby started screaming.

[Matryoshka]

I also had a series of comic books that included THE HIDING PLACE and the story of a girl growing up in the Nazi youth that includes a rape scene. I wasn't yet ten.

I think I had the Hiding Place comic. Was there also one about a POW in Vietnam? And they were drawn in the style of Archie comics?

Edited June 1, 2015 by Matryoshka

[Sew Sumi]

Were they "saved" at this point?  I don't know their "testimony".  Perhaps they really were new to the faith, and just picked a pretty Bible name.

Kelly's a preacher's daughter, so I was very surprised when I first read the Michael story. Gil was also religious, so I assume both were "saved" by the time they married. 

[truthtalk2014]

Kelly's a preacher's daughter, so I was very surprised when I first read the Michael story. Gil was also religious, so I assume both were "saved" by the time they married. 

Exactly.  They should have left her name as it was.  I'm sure she still feels like an unsavory character to this day because of the name she had for a small portion of her life.  *NOT*  

 

Maybe Gil should go have his name legally changed as well.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilles_de_Rais

 

ETA about Gilles:

 

He is best known for his reputation and later conviction as a presumed serial killer of children.

 

What's in a name?  Absolutely nothing but what you make it!

Edited June 2, 2015 by truthtalk2014

[RazzleberryPie]

Kelly's a preacher's daughter, so I was very surprised when I first read the Michael story. Gil was also religious, so I assume both were "saved" by the time they married. 

Honestly, preacher's daughters can be some of the most Bible illiterate people in the congregation. Sons seem to be groomed more for ministry and have to learn Scripture more, where daughters seem to be pushed toward music - piano and/or singing. I personally know several preacher's daughters who, although they live in the church 24/7, are totally immersed in church culture, and absolutely 'look' the part, they know very little about actual Bible text or the commentary behind the text. 

 

Of course I have to disclaim that some PKs (preacher/pastor's kids) don't give a single thought to church/ministry, and many have sincere beliefs and grow to be great Bible scholars and ministry partners, but........yeah, the girl with a cheerful countenance and the love of Jesus just bubbling in her soul who purposes to fellowship with like-minded believers  through every season of her life is often the one who can't tell you much more than we're all sinners, but the blood of Jesus saves us all. I guess it boils down to the basic message, and that's what matters the most, but I'm not surprised that a preacher's daughter is better at gluing macaroni to popsicle stick crosses at Sunday School than actually studying a Bible.

 

It also gives some insight as to how Kelly and Gil delved into ATI land - instead of having a conversion of non-religious person to basic Christian, they're personal revelation went from going through the happy cultural VBS Christian motions to actually studying what they were professing, and they went to very literal, fundamental interpretations. 

 

I could be totally wrong, but until proven wrong, I really like the Bates. They're kids are all well-spoken and outspoken, don't seem to be hiding their true emotions, seem to have real, personal relationships with their parents, are not flamboyantly modest, pursue additional/higher education if they choose, and all have personalities. They're conservative, but they're not weird, dull, rude or horribly behaved. 

[Fuzzysox]

Gil's full name is Gilvan. I've never heard it before.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[Sew Sumi]

I think Gilvin is an old family name from his father's side. That name is passed down to the oldest Bates sons. Gil's dad also has it, as do Zach and Bradley. 

[mbutterfly]

I think I had the Hiding Place comic. Was there also one about a POW in Vietnam? And they were drawn in the style of Archie comics?

Were these comic books specifically religious? I'm  not familiar with them. Thank heaven. 

[GEML]

The comic books were religious. I also had the one about the POW. and THE CROSS AND THE SWITCHBLADE.

All very appropriate reading for children 8-10! :)

[Zahdii]

I thought Chick Tracts were bad.  We used to have someone in our town who'd go to the library and put them in books.  I found two of them in the 'What's Happening to My Body Book for Girls'.  One about abortion in the chapter that discussed birth control, and one about homosexuality in the chapter that discussed sexual attraction in it's many forms.  My kids never saw the tracts, and I bought a 'Body Book' for each of my kids, so for us, that effort was a Fail. 

 

Although, I realized whomever was putting them in there had to actually read at least a small portion of the books in order to place the correct tract in the right spot.  It would be funny if they actually got some useful information out of their efforts to brainwash the kids these books were intended for.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Zahdii

[becca3891]

I thought Chick Tracts were bad.  We used to have someone in our town who'd go to the library and put them in books.  I found two of them in the 'What's Happening to My Body Book for Girls'.  One about abortion in the chapter that discussed birth control, and one about homosexuality in the chapter that discussed sexual attraction in it's many forms.  My kids never saw the tracts, and I bought a 'Body Book' for each of my kids, so for us that was a Fail.  Although I realized whomever was putting them in there had to actually read at least a small portion of the books in order to place the correct tract in the right spot.  It would be funny if they actually got some useful information out of their efforts to brainwash the kids these books were intended for.

Ha. It still makes me cringe to remember that we put Chick tracts in Trick-or-Treat bags years ago, when I was still drinking the fundy Kool-Aid. To our credit, we did put in candy as well as the tracts, but I still wonder what the people must have thought of us. Those tracts are terrible.

[Churchhoney]

Ha. It still makes me cringe to remember that we put Chick tracts in Trick-or-Treat bags years ago, when I was still drinking the fundy Kool-Aid. To our credit, we did put in candy as well as the tracts, but I still wonder what the people must have thought of us. Those tracts are terrible.

 

Maybe they just figured you were trying to give them an extra-special Halloween fright. That's what the holiday's for, isn't it?

[kalamac]

The worst are people that leave those tracts for waitstaff instead of leaving tips. A lot of those hardworking people live off their tips, and getting a card with a religious message on it doesn't do a damn thing to help pay their bills, or feed them.

I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve of that kind of behavior.

[GEML]

Oh, don't get me started on the cheapness of religious people and tipping. My mother and I have spent our lives coming up with reasons to hang behind groups so as to make sure servers were always tipped adequately.

[Zahdii]

Ha. It still makes me cringe to remember that we put Chick tracts in Trick-or-Treat bags years ago, when I was still drinking the fundy Kool-Aid. To our credit, we did put in candy as well as the tracts, but I still wonder what the people must have thought of us. Those tracts are terrible.

 

 

The worst are people that leave those tracts for waitstaff instead of leaving tips. A lot of those hardworking people live off their tips, and getting a card with a religious message on it doesn't do a damn thing to help pay their bills, or feed them.

I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't approve of that kind of behavior.

 

 

Oh, don't get me started on the cheapness of religious people and tipping. My mother and I have spent our lives coming up with reasons to hang behind groups so as to make sure servers were always tipped adequately.

I'm pretty sure I remember JB smugly mentioning that he'd happily take his family to a restaurant that served all children under the age of 5 or 6 for free (knowing that he always had a bunch of them, and I wouldn't put it past him if he instructed slightly older children to insist they were also under the age limit).  After passing on that valuable tip to his audience/flock for making sure his large family ate for half price, he'd then grace the wait staff with fake hundred dollar bills that had bible versus printed on the back.

 

Sadly, one of my own children refuses to tip, because she worked fast food through college and she never got tips.  I, however, have worked both fast food and as a waitress, so although I understand that dealing with customers who are in a hurry or in a bad mood can be challenging, I also know what it's like to try to serve them.  Try carrying a tray to a table while bored children run amok and seem to think bouncing off the waitress is fun.  Try dealing with a guy who has decided your bottom is there for him to pat whenever you walk by.  Or the indulgent parents who tell you they're basing your tip off of if you can get the cute bus guy to stop by their table to flirt with their precious daughter who's fixated on him (knowing the whole time that they'd be really peeved if they thought the bus guy wanted to date her).  Or when I worked at a place where I was the one who bussed my own tables, and got the people who poured out all the salt, pepper, and sugar containers onto the table and then covered them with ketchup and mustard, then happily told me it was because they found the place to be boring (it was a fish and chips place).  I guess they expected a floor show?  Good times.

[Julia]

Or when I worked at a place where I was the one who bussed my own tables, and got the people who poured out all the salt, pepper, and sugar containers onto the table and then covered them with ketchup and mustard, then happily told me it was because they found the place to be boring (it was a fish and chips place).  I guess they expected a floor show?  Good times.

 

Or the ladies who think nobody hands them money to wait on their husbands hand and foot so they don't see why they should stand by while you get that tip if they can just double back and snatch it off the table. Or the ones who ask for fresh iced tea every time the ice melts because they just think you ought to hop for that quarter they're going to leave you for the buffet. Or the one drunk guy who's just noticed that "server" has the same syllable in it as "servant" and wants to point out that he's your master. Or...

Edited June 2, 2015 by Julia

[JenCarroll]

They seem to rip the fun right out of holidays for children -- no Halloween, no Easter Bunny, no Santa, etc. Is this a Gothard thing, or more generally a fundie thing? I do understand their point about Pagan rituals, but from my POV it's kind of sad.

Maybe they just figured you were trying to give them an extra-special Halloween fright. That's what the holiday's for, isn't it?

I think a lot of kids here in the Northeast would have found them pretty funny. Not necessarily my kids, because they weren't brought up in any form of Christianity; they'd just have been baffled. But I think a lot of the Protestant and Catholic kids would have assumed they were parodies of some kind.

l showed my husband the Death Cookie tract (online) and he nearly doubled over with laughter. He kept saying, "This isn't a real thing, is it? People really give these out? Seriously?" He was raised Catholic but he lapsed some time before his first communion, I think. He still made the communion out of kindness to his parents, but spiritually he was out of there. (Yes, he was that kind of seven-year old. Born with fully developed critical thinking skills.)

[Readalot]

They seem to rip the fun right out of holidays for children -- no Halloween, no Easter Bunny, no Santa, etc. Is this a Gothard thing, or more generally a fundie thing? I do understand their point about Pagan rituals, but from my POV it's kind of sad.

. I grew up in a fundy religion - Jehovah's Witnesses. Besides no holidays (pagan) there were no birthdays (no idolatry) either. Not fun times.

[GEML]

We were allowed to celebrate the holidays (in my world, I had liberal parents) but I was the I obnoxious child who told other children there was no Santa Claus and if their parents were saying so, they were deliberately lying. When another parent called mine and complained, my parents told me not to say that any more, and then *I* was put out, because I was only saying what I'd been TOLD!!!!! My parents were very uncomfortable. Sometimes that self-righteousness comes back to bite you.

[ramble]

I grew up Southern Baptist but we did Santa & Halloween. I got in trouble in kindergarten for telling the carpool kids about their parents being Santa. I hadn't mentioned it to my parents because I was worried I'd lose gifts. I'm not sure why we did Santa & Halloween when, in theory, our denomination didn't support them, but I honestly don't remember it being much of a discussion growing up. It seemed like the church sort of let that slide until I started hearing negative messages about it as a teen.

However, I didn't do Santa with my kids. I'm not even sure how I came to that decision, but in hindsight it was a blessing. My oldest is literal & sees things in black & white with no room for shades of grey. Santa would have been a lie to her & she never forgets being lied to. She also has an amazing memory & can recall things when she was two so I stumbled into a good parenting decision without truly thinking it though. I love those tiny victories.