Sweet Fellowship: Duggars and Friends (aka the Bates Family and Other Featured Families Thread)

[GEML]

It may be, like Sister Wives, it's the Gothard folks who don't want the Duggards sharing, not the other way around. The show had brought a lot of unwanted attention.

[DangerousMinds]

But isn't Gothard interested in converting new followers to his righteous path? LOL.

[Fuzzysox]

But isn't Gothard interested in converting new followers to his righteous path? LOL.

More like the path to a non-modern way of uneducated living aka HELL.

[Darknight]

I don't understand why they don't want to share with the public that they follow Gothard. If they believe so much in his teachings, you'd think they would want to bring more of their fans into the fold. Even Scientologists are open about their "religion;" they want nothing more than to attract new converts (and the money that comes with them!).

Because then they aren't christian. They're following man not god. In gothard world the order is god, gothard, then father

But isn't Gothard interested in converting new followers to his righteous path? LOL.

I'm sure fans see the show and think how godly and friendly these people are. A few might have joined

[GEML]

You can't just join Gothard. You can take the basic training lessons through an affiliated church or organization (the days of packing them into stadiums are long gone) but it's not unlike Scientology that you have to be selected to keep moving up. Not just anyone can join their homeschooling group and only a fraction of that can attest ATI. To some extent, yes, they are recruiting, but not in true evangelical fashion.

[JenCarroll]

What would you have to do to join their home schooling group, and what is the difference between that and "attesting" ATI? I know ATI is the educational program they follow for the home schooling, but what does "attesting" mean in this context?

[GEML]

Sorry, that should be attend. I meant the conference.

Edited April 20, 2015 by GEML

[3girlsforus]

You can't just join Gothard. You can take the basic training lessons through an affiliated church or organization (the days of packing them into stadiums are long gone) but it's not unlike Scientology that you have to be selected to keep moving up. Not just anyone can join their homeschooling group and only a fraction of that can attest ATI. To some extent, yes, they are recruiting, but not in true evangelical fashion.

That's interesting. ALERT comes to homeschool conventions. I wonder what they would tell someone about how to be worthy of their training.

[Zahdii]

But isn't Gothard interested in converting new followers to his righteous path? LOL.

 

I'm starting to suspect that Gothard doesn't care about getting new people into the fold.  If someone wants to join up or marry into it, and they seem like a good fit, he's probably fine with that.  But he's in his 80's, and he's been living a pretty good life from the cult.  The cult has weathered his brother's scandal, and Gothard himself has managed to get through two scandal's of his own without doing jail time, apologizing, or paying out money (that we know of).  He might be past the age of fondling the feet of lithe young pretty girls with long hair, and he's content to collect the money from his current followers and fondly reminisce about his past conquests/victims.

 

He has no one to leave his money to, so why not just spend it now on a good retirement?

[JenCarroll]

Sorry, that should be attend. I meant the conference.

Auto-correct strikes again... So, really -- you have to be invited to their conferences? How do people get involved with this group? Is there, like, an application to fill out to determine if you're worthy to get the ATI materials? I just have no idea about any of this. I thought people could just decide to order their program and go to conferences. No? There's a selection process?

[Literata]

Gothard was not the main officiant for sure and he refused to be filmed.

 

 

Looks like the first officiant to me. I'm not referring to the edit shown on "19 Kids," but on TFDW's full version, on YouTube. Gothard's there. His photo's below.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Bill_Gothard_03.jpg/220px-Bill_Gothard_03.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gothard&h=235&w=176&tbnid=hCbCE0vyLUQhgM:&zoom=1&tbnh=186&tbnw=139&usg=__TqZx8nRTjrkSN7oftQCO6zPi9K4=&docid=J3EqXkusduAxYM&itg=1

[GEML]

I bet ALERT is a little different. We've all seen the prices. That's going to self-sort on its own. Also, as I said, I think for some kids (but honestly, not all) ALERT functions as a place to send an out of control homeschooled teenager. There could actually be different camps within the same one.

[Absolom]

You can see the lengthy application on the ATI home page or at least link to it there.

When I think of first officiant I think of the person pronouncing the vows. 

[3girlsforus]

I'd never noticed ALERT at conventions before. I go to put my hands on curriculum and see them in real life which can sometimes be more helpful than samples on the internet and sometimes to see if anything fun jumps out at me. But I almost always have a list and wouldn't ever stop at something like that (even when I didn't know what it was) because I have no interest in it. Now I'm tempted :-). 

Edited April 20, 2015 by 3girlsforus

[GEML]

The moment you mentioned you had only daughters, they might ask you to step away, and the have to disinfect the perimeter.

;)

[3girlsforus]

LOL!!! I would be worth the cost of admission to see that :-)

[marcie hartung]

Here is the Willis Clan's intro video from when they appeared on America's Got Talent last summer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h8J48UXoBc

and

They made it to the quarterfinals but were knocked out of the competition at that level.

ETA The Duggars need to watch their backs. With this family and All That Jazz about trans teen Jazz Jennings, the network might be turning the corner away from the crazy and/or fundie families of the past.

Oh my the Willis family all have j names

[JenCarroll]

Looks like the first officiant to me. I'm not referring to the edit shown on "19 Kids," but on TFDW's full version, on YouTube. Gothard's there. His photo's below.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d7/Bill_Gothard_03.jpg/220px-Bill_Gothard_03.jpg&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gothard&h=235&w=176&tbnid=hCbCE0vyLUQhgM:&zoom=1&tbnh=186&tbnw=139&usg=__TqZx8nRTjrkSN7oftQCO6zPi9K4=&docid=J3EqXkusduAxYM&itg=1

Yeah, I thought the shorter officiant was him. In the full wedding on you tube, not the 19 kids episode.

[NJRach]

I don't know if anyone follows the Rodrigues family thread - they are the printer guy and his haircutter wife who live in a bus with their dozen kids (and seem to pop in for Bates and Duggar weddings). Anyhow, on their blog is the sad news that wife's sister's family was in a bad car wreck. The Dad and kids were ok, but the wife fractured her neck. She might be paralyzed. They have 6 kids, all under 9. It's very sad. The mom homeschooled too. I can't even imagine how tough things are going to be for them.

 

http://rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?page_id=1680

Edited April 21, 2015 by NJRach

[3girlsforus]

Wow - I just read the blog about it. What a horrible accident and so very sad for the whole family. There is a picture of the Suburban they were in. It is a miracle that anyone survived. What a trauma for the husband as well. It says he fell asleep at the wheel.

[JoanArc]

That is so not what the Rodrigues fmaily needed. Based on the number of kids, I take it the sister is fundie too?

 

Horrible things can happen to anyone, anytime. I hope this jars them out of the grift, into a stable life.

[NJRach]

It looks like she was a fundie too. I can't even imagine the logistics of running a big family like that, with the mom needing round the clock nursing.

 

It seems that with so many children, disaster lurks around every corner - from sheer tiredness in this case, or not being able to watch them all (the Duggar kid falling through the stage floor) to financial woes (Anna's sister's family living in the pop-up camper). Wow.

[truelovekiss]

So sorry for the Rodrigues family :(

Going off of the theory that with so many kids, there are greater odds of misfortunes, I have wondered if there are any fundies with kids with serious illnesses or disabilities. I don't really follow other families too closely.

[GEML]

Every Fundy family I can think of offhand has real tragedy in it. Unfortunately, it usually becomes woven into the greater narrative of why they need to follow the path they are on, only bigger, bolder, deeper.

[3girlsforus]

It's not just the size and path of the family but the other situations the size and path create. In this case the family was driving at 3:30 in the morning and the father fell asleep at the wheel. The larger the family, and subsequently the less money in the family, the harder it is for them to say it just isn't safe for us to be driving. Let's get a hotel room. For 8 people that's a minimum of two rooms and at least a couple hundred dollars. 

 

I in no way mean to imply only big, fundy families make decisions like this nor do I want to pile on to this unimaginable tragedy. At any time any of us can have something devastating happen to us or our families. It's just that the ripples of the fundy life seem to increase the odds for them.

[Chai]

I hope you know vast numbers of Protestants know better, fully understanding that Catholics are Christians. It makes me wonder what their understanding of the word Christian is, really.

I hope you know vast numbers of Protestants know better, fully understanding that Catholics are Christians. It makes me wonder what their understanding of the word Christian is, really.

I hope you know vast numbers of Protestants know better, fully understanding that Catholics are Christians. It makes me wonder what their understanding of the word Christian is, really.

The whole thing about Catholics worshipping false idols has always bugged...we pray to our saints asking for intercession; ie: praying the Memorarae, asking Mary to intercede with her son on our behalf. He may not listen to me, but he will his mother.

absolutely!

[Fuzzysox]

Is Anna's sister Ester (sp?) still overseas? How do they live and what does her husband do besides bible belt to make money?

[GEML]

Complains about how people don't send enough or fast enough as best I can tell.

[Zahdii]

Free Jinger has been watching him for awhile.  The latest series of threads about him starts here: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18815, although if you look in their archives his insanity goes back much further.

 

What he's doing now is living in Burundi, trying to convert Christians into being 'proper' Christians.  For the first time in years his kids are living in a house that doesn't fold up and get towed down the road to the next stop in the begging chain (where Daddy would either beg a church for funds to go convert the heathens of darkest Africa, or at least beg to let the family live in the church basement for a time).

 

Before actually moving the family to John Shrader grifted enough money to buy a plane so he could fly to remote areas and deliver bibles.  He also managed to take flight lessons, just barely getting his pilot license and ignoring that his limited experience wouldn't be good enough to fly into and out of remote airfields that were only stretches of dirt road.  Not to worry, because the plane has been ignored since.  After being pressed for months about it, he now claims it's locking in a hanger and he doesn't have a key.  Got a feeling that the plane never existed.

 

It doesn't matter.  John has whined for almost a year now about not having funds for various things, and now his family is living a better lifestyle than most of the people he's supposed to be helping, and a better lifestyle than they've lived for a long time.

 

Recently, his original sending church pulled out, and from cryptic remarks he or his father has made, several of the other churches backing his 'mission' have done the same.  Johns father, Rick, has his own church and has stepped up to fill the void.  Daddy Shrader is so committed to Johns mission that he hijacked his own daughter's obituary to make it all about poor John, his poor kids, and how people shouldn't send flowers to daughter Sarah's funeral, they should send the money to John instead.  Barely a mention of Sarah's husband or 3 year old daughter, just focus on how John needs more money.

 

That's John Shrader.  Prepare to become enraged, offended, and defiled if you delve further into his story.  Save your prayers and sympathy for his beaten down wife and children.  There's a reason the Duggars don't mention Anna's sister on the show, even they know how messed up the Shrader situation is.  But there's no sign that any of them would step up to help, because they don't want to risk the blowback.

[truelovekiss]

Free Jinger has been watching him for awhile. The latest series of threads about him starts here: http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18815, although if you look in their archives his insanity goes back much further.

What he's doing now is living in Burundi, trying to convert Christians into being 'proper' Christians. For the first time in years his kids are living in a house that doesn't fold up and get towed down the road to the next stop in the begging chain (where Daddy would either beg a church for funds to go convert the heathens of darkest Africa, or at least beg to let the family live in the church basement for a time).

Before actually moving the family to John Shrader grifted enough money to buy a plane so he could fly to remote areas and deliver bibles. He also managed to take flight lessons, just barely getting his pilot license and ignoring that his limited experience wouldn't be good enough to fly into and out of remote airfields that were only stretches of dirt road. Not to worry, because the plane has been ignored since. After being pressed for months about it, he now claims it's locking in a hanger and he doesn't have a key. Got a feeling that the plane never existed.

It doesn't matter. John has whined for almost a year now about not having funds for various things, and now his family is living a better lifestyle than most of the people he's supposed to be helping, and a better lifestyle than they've lived for a long time.

Recently, his original sending church pulled out, and from cryptic remarks he or his father has made, several of the other churches backing his 'mission' have done the same. Johns father, Rick, has his own church and has stepped up to fill the void. Daddy Shrader is so committed to Johns mission that he hijacked his own daughter's obituary to make it all about poor John, his poor kids, and how people shouldn't send flowers to daughter Sarah's funeral, they should send the money to John instead. Barely a mention of Sarah's husband or 3 year old daughter, just focus on how John needs more money.

That's John Shrader. Prepare to become enraged, offended, and defiled if you delve further into his story. Save your prayers and sympathy for his beaten down wife and children. There's a reason the Duggars don't mention Anna's sister on the show, even they know how messed up the Shrader situation is. But there's no sign that any of them would step up to help, because they don't want to risk the blowback.

So compared to this guy and TFDW, Josh really is a fundy prince charming. So sad. And doesn't Anna have a couple of pants-wearing sisters? Not hard to see why they wanted a more mainstream lifestyle if this was what they had to look forward to.

[Almost 3000]

I've recently thought of Anna's BIL John Shrader as a new version of the Poisonwood Bible experience but in reality his grifting for his mission in Africa seems to have afforded the family a seemingly better existence than they had stateside and John certainly has better toys. He's currently working on funds for a custom glass bible case. Yes, really...

[BitterApple]

Almost 3000, if I remember correctly the father in Poisonwood Bible was an arrogant know-it-all prick too, and he also risked his family's safety to play Great White Savior to the unwashed masses in Africa.

How did Esther and Pris get stuck with such nut jobs as husbands while Anna and Rebekah seem to have made out okay?

[truelovekiss]

Almost 3000, if I remember correctly the father in Poisonwood Bible was an arrogant know-it-all prick too, and he also risked his family's safety to play Great White Savior to the unwashed masses in Africa.

How did Esther and Pris get stuck with such nut jobs as husbands while Anna and Rebekah seem to have made out okay?

Is Rebekah fundy lite? I think Suzanna (?) is a pants-wearing gal, and I think the older brother isn't fundy. I'm afraid I'm getting her confused with them.

[kstar821]

Super sad story about the Rodriguez family.  I do have to point out, however, that the fundie vocab and writing is in full force on their facebook page.  I had to read it twice to even make sense of the updates.  It's so sad that they don't put any emphasis on becoming an educated writer and speaker, which is ironic, since those are two things essential to being a good pastor/evangelist.

[3girlsforus]

The comment that stuck out to me was in their requests for help and supplies. The youngest was still nursing and obviously that can't happen anymore with the mom being so critically injured. Apparently both sisters are nursing their kids so in the first hours and days they were helping by nursing the baby but they put out a request for breast milk donations. And the comment said 'Kevin (he's the dad) wants breast milk not formula'. 

 

Seriously... I get that this is enormously traumatic and that the baby has to be going through a lot not being with the mom like he's used to. But get real guy - your wife nearly died. She's still very critical. Other kids were injured, although thankfully not seriously. Are you really so stuck in your ways that your focusing on making sure your kid doesn't get formula???? I support breastfeeding. I really do. But sometimes there are other priorities. How long does he expect other women to make milk for his child? They are going to need so much help from so many people this seems awfully presumptuous to me.

[GEML]

They probably don't want to have to pay for formula. As the saying goes, why buy the milk when you can gets cows for free?

[Absolom]

Plus the baby is 10 months old, I believe, so should be eating some regular food and is old enough to begin to introduce a cup.  It may not be ideal, but one of mine self-weaned at 10 months and the pediatrician said follow the child's lead.  I do think it's pushing it to be concerned about getting breast milk donated for a 10 month old vs his wife's long term disability.

[Portia]

When my youngest was two weeks old, we had to hospitalize one of our older children with what turned out to be a serious and extended health issue. I was a huge breast-only mama, and I was panicked at the thought of not being able to nurse my baby, but at that moment I knew my place was with the sick child. My mother-in-law called me that evening and said, "Are you sure this baby's never had formula? She's sucking it down!" I really believed God was looking out for us in that circumstance giving us a baby who was so adaptable. Turns out I was able to keep up breastfeeding her, but that night I felt reassured that even if I had to take her off the breast, she'd be all right. (Millions of healthy kids have been raised on the bottle, after all.) Sometimes the scariest part of a crisis is accepting that you're out of control. I wonder if that poor dad is trying to exert some small measure of control over the feeding issue as a coping mechanism.

[3girlsforus]

That's definitely possible Portia. The way the request was worded sounded demanding to me but its difficult to judge tone in the written word. It's also possible that he knows his wife is dedicated to breastfeeding and he could feel that by making sure the baby keeps getting breastmilk he's following her wishes. The sisters mention that they pumped the mom's milk. I thought that was really strange considering her condition but since they would have had the doctor's permission to do that I guess it must be safe. Cutting off cold turkey can increase a chance of mastitis which would be awful for her to get so maybe that was the reason it was allowed. 

 

Thanks for pointing out the control issue Portia. Since we know that people with similar views can be militant even when militance is unwise, it comes across as he is demanding what makes no sense. But it does make sense that in his helplessness he is reaching for some measure of control. 

[Micks Picks]

Yes, breastfeeding is for sure one of those hot button militant issues. It's a topic I now avoid completely. I surely do feel sorry for the family, though, the dad and it sounds like nobody else is really thinking about how horrendous the woman's situation is. Paralysis isn't something they can begin to pray away. For anyone confused, this is in regards to the Rodriguez woman's sister.

[buddabing]

David Waller and his lobotomised wife have some new videos I had not seen before. They are soo off, I am just scared for their entire family when I see them!

[JoanArc]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4215226440001/willis-clan-were-not-the-singing-duggar-family/

 

Willis Clan: We're not the singing Duggar Family

 

Worth it for the headline alone. Cower in fear, Duggars. It's all over for you!

[anony mouse]

I saw the Willis clan perform at a festival last summer - cute as a button, and they didn't come across fake at all. Looking forward to their show.

[Happyfatchick]

Hi, my name is Happyfatchick, and I'm a duggarholic.

 

You GUUUUUUUUUUUYS!!!!!!!!!!!  I swear.  (And swear, and swear, and swear.)  I only recently started paying any attention to the Duggars, and because I have a close family member (MY DAUGHTER!!!) who is dancing around the fringes - apparently fundie-lite.  Got fascinated with the Duggar-crack.  Read all the way back to the beginnings of the other threads.  Avoided this one because I didn't think I'd learn much.  But I went there.  I did.  I opened the door just a wee bit... NOW I'm sitting up till 4am reading and chasing rabbit trails about the Bateses. (I learned that somebody - JenCarroll maybe? - has a STROKE over the wrong usage of their name).  Oh good Lord!!!  This is making me nuts.  I need a shower (showers are good!), I need to eat some real (healthy) food, I need some sleep - but I'm totally addicted.  What sick, morbid fascination is this that I don't want to BE them but can't seem to get enough of them???  Oh yes.  I now know TFDW, Pris, Erin, Alyssa.  I know that Michael is, in fact, a girl.  I thought maybe my daughter needed an intervention - but now I'm thinking maybe it's me.  Is there a rehab program for this???

 

Who are the Maxwells?

 

I know they are basically all drinking from the same cup, but I'm thinking maybe the Bateses are using NutraSweet.  They are so completely different from the Duggars, to me.  I mean, their theology is the same, and it bothers me that Gil is on the board of IBLP, and that they are speakers for those events.  And they also are bound and determined to populate their respective corners of the earth.  (What is UP with that?)  But they have totally different personalities.  The Bates seem like likable people.  I actually find myself liking them.  Totally different vibe from the 2 families.  Kelly has hair just below her shoulders.  WHY can't they do that?  Oh Michelle, QUIT taking pics beside Kelly.  You look so much worse beside her.  The Bates family seems happy.  Happy and well adjusted.  The Duggars seem stilted and not happy at all.  Almost as if they fear the hand of God smashing down on TTH and wiping them all out.  Is that because the Bates family has God as a loving God who wants their well-being and the Duggar family sees God as the guy who rains down doom on all who stray? 

 

Even though I "like" the Bateses - wouldn't object at all to having them for neighbors - there's so MUCH snark to be had!!!  For starters:  Erin's little bee-boppy curls at the ends of her hair.  Oh.My.Gosh.  And THEN she does a tutorial about it!!!!!!  (I told you I was up till 4). 

 

My favorite (by far) is family pics.  Beach pics with 4 kids, looking relatively normal.  Then when the oldest hit the teen years and there were (how many?) little Bates-boogars lined up in PRAIRIE DRESSES!!!  They looked just like a long line of Mennonites lined up.  What an odd sight on the beach!  Just weirdness.  All the dresses the same, too.  Oh, thank you thank you thank you sweet dear Baby Jesus for letting them get past that phase!   And when they branched out, they went all peacock and Toucan Sam!  Alyssa dresses like a circus, but it's so refreshing somehow!   The Duggars (as has been noted) have changed their styles too, over time, but they seem like a neutralist convention beside the Bates girls. 

[barbedwire]

Welcome Happyfatchick!

 

The Maxwells (grown kids who live in Maxhell) can be found at Titus 2 blog.  Don't say I didn't warn ya!  Another rabbit hole of super strick fundies.  I mean, they outlaw fun and outlaw adult children making their own decisions.

 

And your daughter in on the outskirts of fundieism?  Yikes.

[Happyfatchick]

Welcome Happyfatchick!

 

And your daughter in on the outskirts of fundieism?  Yikes.

I've been around a few weeks, just not on this particular thread.  But thanks for the welcome!

Edited May 6, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[GEML]

A lot of us are here because we have a personal tie to fundamentalism. We all need an intervention of some sort! :)

And I do think that the Bates have a God that is more balanced between the wrathful Fundy Father and a loving Son. The Duggars seem to only know about the former.

[frenchtoast]

It's easy to start telling personal stories by relating it to what we see and read here, but we do have a separate area for that--the Small Talk topic. We'd love to hear and discuss personal stories there.

 

Thanks!

[Happyfatchick]

Absolutely unrelated to anything Duggar (except they might push the Dugs out of their time slot!)  I watched the Willis Family tonight.  I only came in about 15 minutes before 19K&K was over, so I missed all the drama leading up to the C-sec.  Izzy looked HUGE when they took him out.  I've had a kid that big, and I don't remember him looking like a fullback. 

So anyway, the Willis family - I like them!  I truly, honestly like them.  It may not last, I don't know how much entertainment you get from watching a family be a family.   One of the interesting things is that so many of the kids are older and getting ready for relationships.  And they all appear to be outgoing and social.  Good grief, what TALENT they have going on!  And some really fine looking children. 

I know it's crazy and I'm just not watching enough to catch it, but none of these mega families seems to have an issue with eyesight.  I find that amazing that you can give birth to and live with 19 children and none of them need vision correction.  I did see a pic with Erin-who's-not-a-Bates-anymore wearing glasses.  Maybe some of the others do too, and they just opt for contacts when filming.  Can't say the same about the teeth - I think the Duggars all got in line for braces on their 12th birthday.

[becca3891]

I did think it was interesting on Bringing Up Bates that the family at least went to the beach. Of course they did talk about how immodest everyone else was, and tried to find a spot without too many defrauding people, but the Duggars flat out don't even go. It was also interesting that the Bateses were just wearing street clothes in the water. While I HATE the "Modest Swimwear" swim dresses the Duggars wear, I think they're probably more comfortable than street clothes, which are so heavy.