S05.E13: Forget

[Mu Shu]

No, Hava, I feel the same way. If they want to build a happy, functional society, I see nothing wrong with them being (seemingly) happy and functional because they are succeeding at their goal. Wanting a pasta maker isn't just a pie-in-the-sky dream that only a clueless idiot could ever have in this terrible, awful world. It would give them a way to make a large amount of food that feeds a lot of people at very little cost. It means people wouldn't have to drive 50+ miles away to get more boxes of old, stale pasta. And if they have been living in Alexandria for 2 years, then it's perfectly normal and natural to want to have some variety when it comes to food. Yes, out in the walker world people eat bugs and rats and roots, but that is only because they have to. In Alexandria, not having to eat those things is kind of the point. They are trying to live normal lives that are not based on being afraid every moment. Part of being normal is the natural human desire to enjoy oneself. It's instinct to want to survive, but when you are living in a world where your survival isn't threatened at all times, a person will eventually start to think about having things that comfort them and make their days better. A cocktail party to help socialize the newcomers with the existing citizens sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Sorry that Sasha has PTSD, but that doesn't mean no one else should be allowed to enjoy getting together under friendly circumstances.

It pisses me off that "our" people are only in town for 5 minutes and they're already making such an unprovoked mess out of everything.

You don't need a machine to make pasta. Even if you get one, you still need to go out and get the ingredients. It just sounds so shallow and ignorant to tell people who risk their lives on the outside "oh, if you can find a pasta machine in between risking your life and stuff, could you grab it for me while I sit behind the safe walls? Thanks!!!" Same goes for Barrista woman and her prosciutto. Go shoot your own damn hog you coward.

[HalcyonDays]

OK, anyone got a good name for an acronym/nick-name explanation thread?

 

I've been toying with this for a while, actually, creating a thread like this. Just a small thread that we can define certain acronyms and short forms that we use for the show, so we don't have to keep asking the same questions over and over again.

 

I brought this up a few months ago, but it may be a good time to bring it up again. I'd like to see a thread that anyone can post in with your nice clear precise definitions for any of the terms, but only the best definition of the term stays in the thread (to get rid of repetition).

 

I like these ones -

WTH is a CDB? Nicknames of 'The Walking Dead

or

WTH is a CDB? Acronyms of the Walking Dead

 

Because What the Hell Rhymes with Camp Dinner Bell!!

[kikismom]

I think that midway through the back 8 of Season 5, we have set a new record for live-watch party attendance. I know I would type a sentence, and the box would come up 38 new replies added.

That was fun!

 

 

. But it looks like she has a cute new love interest. I liked him and maybe Sasha being a hyper vigilant crazy person will actually have a good effect on him. I think he was Deanna's older son who was the only person in this entire little development to think that someone should be in a watch tower at least part of the time.

 

If Rick and Sasha get love interests, why can't Michonne?

 

Is there anyone who didn't smile to see Spencer there at the door being so right with Sasha?

Which is why I expect the rug to be pulled out suddenly. By which one I don't know.

I have thought for awhile that it wad a matter of time before they run into some baby obsessed group (I thought it would be at the hospital, but I was wrong) that is focusing on repopulating, and would recruit CDB. They have managed to raise Judith so far (thanks to Rick's crushed acorns), they have several women of childbearing age (Maggie, Rosita, Tara and Sasha, at the moment) and two men (Rick and Abraham) that have fathered children and are presumably still fertile. At this point, I'm not sure that is ASZ's angle, but it's going to happen at some point.

Well, Tovah Feldshuh's interview had that creepy comment I've already posted in the Media thread I believe...about how Deanna wants people with good genes, she wants a varied gene pool with brawn to increase the population Here we go!

 

Well they are in the middle of the Zombie Apocalypse, so I would imagine that takes the concept of "living in the moment" to a whole new level.

 

I guess since I am a newbie and got my background via marathon watching I may have a different perspective, but I don't have a problem with the Rick, Jessie storyline. I am neither rooting for or against them as a couple although she did get on my nerves with here little speech about all they've lost last night. I mean, honey, you have an intact family. Hubby may be a dickhead, but he was probably a dickhead long before the ZA so, whatever. You are giving a speech to a widower. You may not want to give the same speech to Maggie and I would very, very strongly advise NOT to give it to Carol.   

Except---Rick basically did the same thing back in his Season 2 finale speech at the waterfall which was shameful. He was all ooh my cross is so heavy!  with his whole family still alive at that point, on and on about how his life was so hard...

...in front of Herschel who lost his wife, stepson, friends like Otis and Patricia  and Jimmy ( who saved Rick and Carl from the burning barn) not to mention his heirloom farm/home burned to the ground (after saving Carl's life and feeding and sheltering them) and Carol who lost her daughter and husband and Glenn who lost his mentor Dale and of course Andrea left to the walkers (after she and Glenn saved Rick's life). I hardly think what Jessie did was stupider or more self-absorbed than Rick was that night.

 

 

I also don't really understand the "Michonne has been right in front of him this whole time!" argument, because to my recollection she hasn't expressed any romantic interest in him (textually, I don't mean in subtext, or looks, or smiles, because those can be, and regularly are, interpreted differently by each viewer).

She's not a jilted lover whose romantic overtures have been spurned,

she didn't put on a dress and make herself pretty for him

she hasn't been waiting for him to notice her.

Now, I wouldn't mind it if Rick-Michonne were to happen, actually I'd love it, but I would also enjoy a Rick-Carol pairing, shallowly because these are three gorgeous humans, whom I also happen to find the three best actors on the show, so every scene they have together, in any combination, is a scene I know I'll enjoy. By that same token, I'd also like Carol-Michonne, or any of these three with Sasha. So, I'm flexible about that, is what I'm trying to say.

 

Thank you. I also think It is not indicative of some evil conspiracy just because it hasn't happened.

The show is a story that exists to tell a story, not to be some form of dramatic American Idol where viewers phone in votes for who stays and who leaves and what tune you want them to dance to.

I don't get the "Michonne has been right in front of him the whole time argument" because that is exactly why it isn't a good argument...if you are in front of a man night and day for three years, and his hasn't made a pass then he isn't going to.

There is no failure of Rick's vision not to see her; and there is no hateful rejection by Rick toward her...he's just not into her that way. It happens.

 

first time poster-long time reader...

Buttons was clearly a metaphor. Considering his fate...ominous. Also it takes a wild thing to tame a wild thing. Aaron has been watching our group for a long time. He knew what buttons to push to get Darryl  tamed.

 

Welcome to the threads, glad you decided to stop lurking and start joining in.

I absolutely think the Aaron/Daryl thing was meant to be seen metaphorically. Aaron and Eric bring in Mowgli the Zombie Jungle Boy.

Here's my problem...I'm losing trust in Aaron, and I do not see Daryl getting weak as some do. I think Daryl's role to play was to be taken in by Aaron as the tricky trio feel Aaron seems to be the real brains of the outfit. It's a double con, a bit like the movie The Departed.

 

Does anyone else think Eric's awful story about pasta machine lady was pre-planned to be ridiculous/boring to Daryl? Thus giving Aaron the chance to share private eye-roll with Daryl and imply You and I get each other so much better...

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously what did she think she'd gain by having Sasha come to the party??

How about the chance to make sure every damn one of them was out of their living quarters---which could them be "shook-down" for hidden weapons etc.

Maybe plant a few more mics on the theory that Rick might have searched for mics and cameras when they first moved in...but now that he didn't find them, lure them to a party and bug the houses out the ass.

 

Was this the first time we've seen anyone use a silencer?  Both Sasha and Carol used them.

 

I never understand why people don't converse the way they do in normal life - exchange stories of where they came from, what happened to their families, how long they've been in that place, etc.  

Silencers have been used at least since the first ep of Season 3.

 

You're joking, right? Who wants to say I came from Boston, I was trapped there by the mobs and the army dropping napalm on every street and I originally came from Myrtle Beach but everyone in my hometown was eaten or taken for sex slaves, my family mostly was eaten a few siblings were murdered and we don't know what happened to the smallest kids after the crazy Human Supremacy Militia guys came through, I been here 6 days and I gotta move on because I had to steal food from my last captor and ...so what's up with you?

[ghoulina]

I didn't like the fact that Sasha made an ass out of herself at the party.  Granted, she's been through hell but if she felt so traumatized then she should have bailed out on the party.  No need to spoil things for people trying to get through life by having a good time.

 

I'm sure Sasha didn't know she was going to react like that. I felt she was making an effort. Her biggest concern was manning the unused guard tower. Well, Deanna told her she'd consider IF she attended the party. I agree with whomever it was upthread that stated Deanna was rushing them to assimilate somewhat too quickly. Sasha is clearly struggling to keep one foot planted in reality, and I can't say that I blame her. I also don't blame her for her reaction to that asinine cocktail party. I have nothing against the idea of establishing a functioning society. At some point the world is going to have to be rebuilt. But I just hate the way they're doing it. It seems like this place is way too complacent, loose with their resources, and has too much time on their hands. Instead of cocktail parties and book club, how about studying agriculture and and target practice? I don't begrudge people in this world a moment to relax and indulge themselves....but I get the feeling that this happens quite often. What if the Unfair Wolves descended on them on a night like that, when everyone is half drunk and bickering about books and pasta makers? Rick was right - they ARE lucky CDB is there. 

[morgankobi]

I like these ones -

WTH is a CDB? Nicknames of 'The Walking Dead

or

WTH is a CDB? Acronyms of the Walking Dead

 

Because What the Hell Rhymes with Camp Dinner Bell!!

 

Is it too long to do: WTH is a CDB? Acronyms/Nicknames of The Walking Dead

 

I like the idea of keeping the best ones to avoid repetition. If someone has something to add, they could maybe copy the whole original post and edit with their stuff and you could pick which to save?

Edited March 9, 2015 by morgankobi

[CletusMusashi]

About arming the populace: I have mixed feelings.

On the one hand: guns are a great way to defend yourself. Often the best way, by far. So having them and knowing how to use them is not inherently bad.

On the other hand: guns are really, really loud. They attract herds of zombies.

And they also tell groups of bad guys: "Hey, there's people there, and they have stuff. Let's go after them."

The more people you have carrying guns, the more target shooting there's going to be. And the more zombie shooting, in spite of the fact that one or two zombies at the fence can easily be dispatched with something far quieter, like a slingshot or long spear.

CDB have a long history of forgetting this whenever they get comfortable, and then wondering why every place they stay is immediately overwhelmed by zombies, no matter how long the previous people survived without them.

I think a soundproofed indoor target range would be great. Store the guns there, securely, instead of with Chocolate Pickle Lady, and have the staff (Possible candidates: Glenn, Maggie, and, to show you how much my opinion has changed, Carl,) always armed in case a bad guy takes one of the guns and starts acting up. 

But, we all know they aren't gonna be there that long. I give it two episodes before that whole city burns to the ground.

[RustbeltWriter]

It's kind of a let down that Rick and Carol are acting like Shane at Hershel's farm. yes, these people have had it easier than them but they've succeeded in hanging on to civilization and they've thrived. If Rick and Carol think they are soft and want to bring them around to their way of thinking, they might try speaking to Deanna and Aaron and telling them what they've been through. Tell them who they've run into on the road and how fast people have reverted to barbarism. Just educate them instead of being jerks.

Edited March 9, 2015 by RustbeltWriter

[HalcyonDays]

Alright - here you go.

 

WTH is CBD? - Acronyms and Nicknames of the Walking Dead

[RustbeltWriter]

I give it two episodes before that whole city burns to the ground.

 

I was thinking that last night. Every place our group goes they eventually pass judgement on whoever lives there and mayhem follows.

[truelovekiss]

Rick might not have a choice. Finding a new sitter is difficult, and all his old sitters are dead.

True. RIP Tyreese and Beth. I agree with previous posters that Jessie might be the default option, which is only going to add to Rick's misguided feelings. I know Noah went on the douche run (which I was surprised about since he has that bum leg but whatever, continuity) but I think he would make a satisfactory nanny (mannies are trendy). It would be sort of fitting since he kind of replaced Beth and Tyreese.

[Ellaria]

TBTB are overdoing it in every way with Carol. We are supposed to believe Carol is so much smarter than a Congresswoman who is running an entire community, that she believes Carol 's dream in life is to bake cookies and be in the Junior League. And Carol's threat to that child was not badassery, it was terrible. Maybe that kid shouldn't have followed her, but maybe kids are just allowed to roam around,and Carol could have had a backup.

She realizes there is something "off" about this place.  She realizes that if the nosy kid mentions that she was in a place she wasn't supposed to be, it could mean big trouble for her and the group.  She can't be sure that the nosy "innocent" kid isn't really a spy who has been trained to report back to the grownups.  He probably would mention that he saw her even if she gave him a story, so decides to terrify him into silence.   I get that.   I think it's smart.   

 

Carol! has gone all demented Betty Crocker in a series of tragic sweaters...

 

My thoughts on Carol...I think that TPTB are overdoing it, too. According to Aaron, he (and others from Alexandria) observed Rick's group for a period of time. Wouldn't they then know that Carol isn't Betty Crocker and is, instead, a real bad ass? The ugly sweaters, the loony smile...a little too much. To what end? Michonne is a bad ass, too and she isn't walking around acting loopy. And I question whether she realizes that something is "off" or is she just annoyed at their naivete. If Alexandria is missing out on some survival skills, why not offer to help train?

 

Because Alexandria can work, it just needs a mix of what Deanna can offer but also an equal part of what Rick & Co. can offer as well. It can't be one or the other.

 

Exactly. They need to share information. Rick & Company tried to set-up a society in the prison and failed, for the most part. I may get slammed for this but I get a sense of arrogance and smugness from Rick and Carol about Alexandria. Yes, Deanna is naive about what life is like out there. However, Rick and Carol were barely surviving. They may know more about the horrors beyond Alexandria's walls but their attitude seems to be "take what we want." Isn't that what others did to them?

Edited March 9, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[BrokenRemote]

I don't hate Jesse, I just hate where it seems that they are taking Jesse and Rick. I freely admit that I like Rick and Michonne as a possible pair. Although, I can live without it. I don't think the kiss that Rick gave Jesse was scandalous though, but I see no chemistry between the two actors. With Rick and Michonne I do.

And I know that this is UO but McBride is a mediocre actress, and I was over Carol before she even threatened the kid. Of course, for plot's sake, the kid will keep his mouth closed. As for me at his age, after leaving this crazy woman's presence, I would become the town crier! (I think most kids would too.)

If it wasn't for the fact that it's easy to keep kids quiet with fear, most people who prey on kids wouldn't use it. But they do, because it is.

Weil I am a major animal lover with a houseful of rescues to prove it and if they a really harmed a horse or really shot and eaten dogs. you can bet I would quit the show and raise hell. However, luckily, I understand this is a TV show. I don't enjoy any scene that shows violence to animals. But then I am probably in the minority in that I hate the head stomping and brain exploding scenes too. I just remind myself they aren't real.

I'm a vegetarian and an animal lover, and I also know it's not real. I would more likely see people protesting over the real dead squirrels they used in the first half of the season. If people didn't rage quit over the real killing of animals, I can hardly see them doing it over a fake horse death.

I do think a lot of them, most notably Sasha and Daryl, are having a very hard time adjusting to life just being peaceful and normal behind these gates. I think some of them don't know how to function if they're not on the defensive and taking down walkers. It's just become so rote for them.

But I don't think the stockpiling extra guns thing is necessarily about ASZ being a ruse. I think it's just more about being protected from anything - inside or outside. But more likely outside. Rick and Sasha were incredulous that there was no one constantly in the watchtower. Rick noticed how easy the outside braces would be for a person to scale. The gang is immediately noticing ways this safe haven can be penetrated and I just think they want to have their bases covered for what they see as the inevitable - some big, bad coming down on them from outside the walls.

That really stood out to me as well. And maybe not in a malicious way. But for all those who saw Rick as the aggressor, with his predatory kiss - I couldn't see it that way, because Jessie came to him first. A haircut is a very intimate act, and did she go around offering others from the group haircuts? Daryl certainly needs one. Glenn and Carl too. Noah might like a little off the top. What about the girls? I'm not sure if it's just her, on her own, having a bad relationship with her husband and seeing something she likes. But I don't think that Jessie was upset or offended by Rick's cheek kiss. I also entertained the idea that Deanna specifically sent her to kind of flirt a bit with Rick and get close to him, keep tabs on him. Again, not necessarily malicious, but just as a safety measure. As a way of trying to get a better feel for who these people are and what they're about.

Pretty sure that's what they're going to do. Grrrrr. Pull out the fainting couches.

We know they have apple trees, but that's about the only mention of any sustainable food source I've heard. I hope they have more and we just haven't heard about it yet. But I think we can be fairly certain they don't have livestock, given the food pantry chick's request for a boar leg. Honestly, that should have been priority one after making the community safe with the walls and whatnot. Damn, CDB was only at the prison six months when they had pigs and a pretty decent garden going.

Jessie came to Rick first at Deanna's behest. She says something to the effect of "I work in the pantry; Deanna sent me over with some stuff for you." So I don't see it as Jessie going all Single White Female on Rick. She might have liked what she saw, but it didn't seem like she threw together a basket and came over just to get her some. Especially because she couldn't have seen him in anything other than his Filthy Grizzly Adams regalia up until that moment.

I am all for Rick bumping uglies. As has been mentioned many times by many others there just hasn't been enough sexy times during the zombie apocalypse. However, like you I hate the fact that she is married, which spells triangle, which I hate even more. This ain't Days of Our Lives. Also, I smell another albatross. I am not saying that every woman Rick is with needs to be a bad ass like Michonne or Carol but she at least needs to be able to kill walker or man. Jessie just seems so damn sheltered and clueless to me right now. If this was just a slap and tickle one-nighter I wouldn't care, but if Rick is going to be in a serious relationship with any woman I think they need to be asked the 3 questions.

Q1: "How many walkers have you killed."

Q2: "How many people have you killed?"

Q3: "Why?"

I know this probably isn't realistic. Rick is thinking with his peen and wanting some semblance of the life he had before but times have change and ain't no one got time to be constantly rescuing damsels in distress. Also, I don't want Rick to be in a situation where the 1st time he has to kill a person to protect her, she gets all in a huff and ridiculous talking about 'I can't be with someone like you' like Abe's wife only to leave and be eaten down to bones not 50 feet away from the door she exited. I have to admit I LMAO at that.

.

It seems to me that Jessie being sheltered and clueless would be exactly what would appeal to Rick. Someone who isn't touched by the horror his life has been the last two years, who is healthy in mind and body because she has been sheltered. What's he going to talk about with someone who's been through what he has? They have too much shared horror and guilt. Jessie would be looking really appealing right about now for those reasons, it seems to me.

Edited March 9, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Miles]

Well Rick has gone off the deep end. I just hope it won't be Carl who has to kill him in the end. But it probably will be, since they just reminded us that he had to kill his mother.

Okay, so I always thought that if I could pick one person from the show as my zombie apocalypse partner, it would be Daryl or Rick or maybe Michonne. I officially pick Carol. Out of all of CDB, she's clearly the most ruthless and badass. She'll do what she has to in order to protect her own, even if that means threatening the life of a ten year old. That's the kind of crazy bitch I want on my side.

Better not get the flu around her though. ;)

But other than that, I agree. I think Daryl and Michonne would be good choices, too. Rick I would want to be faaar away from. This isn't the first time he has shown himself to be unstable.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Miles

[bosawks]

 

I also got the impression that Deanna wanted Sasha at the party because her son thought she was hot.

 

Well, he's not wrong........

[Haleth]

THIS.  Yep, I love Carol, mistakes and all, and resent like hell that women are so dismissed.  Carol, River Song, and Laura Roslin... my badass fictional role models.

And Lagertha from Vikings. If you don't know Lagertha, you should!

Yeah, that horse was really well trained to allow a bunch of people to surround and touch him without thrashing and stomping on anyone.

[CletusMusashi]

Well Rick has gone off the deep end. I just hope it won't be Carl who has to kill him in the end. But it probably will be, since they just reminded us that he had to kill his mother.

"Coral, you're grounded! No hat-wearing for a month."

BANG!

[whyjen8]

Jessie came to Rick first at Deanna's behest. She says something to the effect of "I work in the pantry; Deanna sent me over with some stuff for you." So I don't see it as Jessie going all Single White Female on Rick. She might have liked what she saw, but it didn't seem like she threw together a basket and came over just to get her some. Especially because she couldn't have seen him in anything other than his Filthy Grizzly Adams regalia up until that moment.

Unless there ARE cameras all over their houses, and Jessie watched the shower and shave and said "Claimed losers" and hightailed it over there ASAP.

 

About Jessie being in an abusive relationship....Would an abused woman even put herself in the spot she was in, alone cutting the new guy's hair?

[RedHackle]

Carol has lost her freaking mind. She is bat shit crazy.

I already posted this at another venue I frequent, sorry if it's repetitive; but I'm surprised at the number of variations on this sentiment I saw here; I had the same thought as many others - that Carol taking the chocolate would give her perfect cover if she got busted. Then when she proceeded to terrorize that child I was actually scared for him.  At first I was baffled but then soon realized she probably took the right approach- lie to that kid and bribe him with cookies, and eventually he'd talk to someone - an older brother or a friend, if not his mom.  But the way she fuh-reaked him right out he'll probably never speak again.  I didn't see that kid as bratty or anything else - just a normal kid trying to score a cookie who walked in on the wrong middle-aged woman and is now scarred for life. Wonder if there's a good child psychologist in Alexandria?

 

 

The woman who wants a pasta machine, and the one who wants to make prosciutto need to go down first.    Actually, the guy who hit on Sasha can join them.

 

 

Ha.  Yeah, I agree - that's Austin Nichols who always always always plays a massive tool.  (In John from Cincinnati he played a weirdo from another planet, but other than that, always a creep.) 

 

Someone here posted that Rick has turned into Shane and it made my blood run cold.  What an icky oogy thought!  But I'm afraid you may be right.  {{{shudder}}}.

 

Let's hope Michonne or someone is able to slap the crap out of him and pull him back from the abyss. One thing, though.  It seemed to me that Rick didn't seem to have any kind of eye for Jessie until he met her husband.  So it's maybe not so much want her as wanting to take her away from him. And while I get it, I think Rick really needs to have another woman (like I said, Michonne or Carol) point out to him that she's capable of making up her own mind and doesn't need saving. That's what I want to happen.   What the show actually does remains to be seen.  Not a comic book reader so have no idea what's going to happen.  I will bet my bottom dollar that A-A-Ron is a good guy, though.

[rhygirl720]

kikismom said

 

Welcome to the threads, glad you decided to stop lurking and start joining in.

I absolutely think the Aaron/Daryl thing was meant to be seen metaphorically. Aaron and Eric bring in Mowgli the Zombie Jungle Boy.

Here's my problem...I'm losing trust in Aaron, and I do not see Daryl getting weak as some do. I think Daryl's role to play was to be taken in by Aaron as the tricky trio feel Aaron seems to be the real brains of the outfit. It's a double con, a bit like the movie The Departed.

 

I don't think Daryl is capable of The Departed level of con. He isn't exactly tame nor is he weak but there is a childlike simplicity to him . Daryl is exactly who he appears to be without artifice.

[kikismom]

Rick is going Shane unhinged. Him chasing after Jesse and him by the fence, Shane has to be rolling in his grave.

Not to nitpick, but Shane can't roll in his grave---he never got one. He could still be rolling in that f@&king cow pasture though.

 

These walls look so damn weak.

 

 Rick was married to Lori and say whatever you want about the woman but she had personality, Jess is blander than cottoage cheese on white bread.

 

I agree. Too quick, too forced, too fake, and I actually did like Lori (ducks from the tomatoes), so I want her predecessor to be not a random married woman who hasn't fought by his side and won over Coral before winning over Rick.

 

 The way Rick acted tonight is how I would have expected him to react after months or years, not an episode.

 

I get Rick and Jessie might feel attraction, but she seemed pretty vague when she was talking. I'll have to rewatch and pay more attention when she talks, 'cause I didn't notice any common ground, or a more specific experience or anything to make people feel like a connection happened, or did I miss something?

 

 Rick is already clearly into her. It doesn't make much sense from Rick, who is closed off and slow to trust and there hasn't been anything special in her personality to explain his level of interest.

Where is this planet you speak of, where men don't have sexual arousal if a female has a bland personality? Usually, the fastest way to make a man shrivel is to say his prospective blind date "well, she has a great...personality!"

 

Also, I realize you know it is the Zombie Apocalypse, but expecting that a kiss on the cheek shouldn't take place before months or years of getting to know someone is a bit of a high hurdle. Add in fighting the living and the dead by his side, and bonding with his kid before the kiss on a cheek stage is more restrictive than many Amish communities.

And yes I realize that description was tailored to fit Michonne, but after 3 years I'm not holding my breath.

 

BTW, it seems that when a man has been at the wars for some time, and he finally gets a furlough, and he's unmarried and hasn't had any sex in all that time...and he just drank a pretty full water glass of scotch...he could give a shit about her mind.

 

I don't understand why Rick would rather the group look insane, rather than have a little sit down with Deanna.

They found out real fast that any inconvenient truth is met with : Oh don't worry. Oh, I have it under control. Oh that's bullshit.

The Governor controlled his people with fear of the outside world and the feeling they had to put up with things to live safe.

Deanna, IMHO, wants them not to be afraid of walkers or rapey robbers...because that makes people think, That would make people want their guns back.

She doesn't have the paramilitary types and doesn't want it...she wants to be the new version of BIg Brother: Big Mother.

Mama has it taken care of don't you worry play with your toys and get nice and malleable and let your spine weaken.

Rick and co. know she would never believe they were babes-in-the-woods (Aaron had already admitted watching them). So to be safe just act like you want it all to be over, you want to be sheep again, no more hard decisions...

Edited March 9, 2015 by kikismom

[Iboatedhere]

So am I the only one who looked away from the screen for one second, and missed that close-up of the little plastic sword the first time? All I saw was Michonne, on the porch with Abe, holding a little skinny suspicious-looking white thing. There was one brief hilarious moment where I thought he had just handed her a doobie.

I thought that too! At first I couldn't tell if Abe was drunk or high. I was like,  Alexandria might not be harvesting vegetables but they're growing something.

[Yolapukka]

I don't mind Olivia wanting a boar leg for prosciutto, even if did sound a bit precious, at least with her preserving skills she's contributing to the sustainability of the community, more so than those who are coming up with baked goods that substitute eggs with applesauce.

[Pete Martell]

Where is this planet you speak of, where men don't have sexual arousal if a female has a bland personality? Usually, the fastest way to make a man shrivel is to say his prospective blind date "well, she has a great...personality!"

 

Also, I realize you know it is the Zombie Apocalypse, but expecting that a kiss on the cheek shouldn't take place before months or years of getting to know someone is a bit of a high hurdle. Add in fighting the living and the dead by his side, and bonding with his kid before the kiss on a cheek stage is more restrictive than many Amish communities.

And yes I realize that description was tailored to fit Michonne, but after 3 years I'm not holding my breath.

 

BTW, it seems that when a man has been at the wars for some time, and he finally gets a furlough, and he's unmarried and hasn't had any sex in all that time...and he just drank a pretty full water glass of scotch...he could give a shit about her mind.

 

If this was about Rick getting a piece of ass, then I'm sure there are other options beyond a married woman whose husband is clearly on high alert. 

 

He wasn't just getting a boner for her - he got in her personal space, kissing on her without her permission, and he then nearly killed her husband. I don't think it's restrictive to expect men to not behave this way. He put her, himself, and his children in danger.

 

If all men reacted this way just because they haven't had any in a long time, then we'd be watching The Walking Shanes. Even Shane was more restrained for a while.

 

And if the show really has brought a woman in solely to get Rick hard, with no purpose or personality of her own, then I think that's very regressive and cheapens everything they've built up over the last few seasons in how female characters are treated.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Pete Martell

[Evie]

Do we know whether Rick told the rest of his group about the "W" carved on walkers they saw on Noah's grounds? It was just him, Michonne, Glenn, other than Noah and Tyresse. Did Daryl and Carol looked like they knew about it when they saw it on that walker during their meeting with Rick? Cause that seems like something Rick would want to warn, not just his group, but also Deanna about. I mean, shit went down 50 (or 100?) miles from their town, and now a walker bearing that mark just ambled pretty close. That would be a solid argument to make Deanna listen to their warnings.

One of them asked what it was, so I'm guessing they didn't know about it. I don't know if he connected it back to Shirewilt, but he's dumb if he doesn't at least mention it to his group. Especially to those like Glenn who will be making supply runs.

[BrokenRemote]

If this was about Rick getting a piece of ass, then I'm sure there are other options beyond a married woman whose husband is clearly on high alert. 

 

He wasn't just getting a boner for her - he got in her personal space, kissing on her without her permission, and he then nearly killed her husband. I don't think it's restrictive to expect men to not behave this way. He put her, himself, and his children in danger.

 

If all men reacted this way just because they haven't had any in a long time, then we'd be watching The Walking Shanes. Even Shane was more restrained for a while.

 

And if the show really has brought a woman in solely to get Rick hard, with no purpose or personality of her own, then I think that's very regressive and cheapens everything they've built up over the last few seasons in how female characters are treated.

I think Rick's hand brushing over his gun is a far cry from "nearly killed her husband".  There are a lot of ways that could be interpreted.  Jessie seemed to pull away from Pete a little--that could have been nothing more than a cop's instinct to protect a citizen who's about to get manhandled.

 

If this was Daryl or Abe, would everyone be so distraught?

Edited March 9, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[CletusMusashi]

The town might, very plausibly, have a scarcity of unmarried women.

We just haven't seen enough to know.

Hell, do we even know what the population is?

[ghoulina]

and he then nearly killed her husband.

 

I realize there are different interpretations of how Jessie received Rick's kiss (some say she was uncomfortable, myself and others think she was startled because she liked it), so I'm not too keen to bother discussing that ad nauseum. But I think saying Rick almost killed Pete is going a bit far. He didn't even draw his gun. Yes, he touched it, but that could mean a million things. Maybe he didn't like the way Jessie shied away from her husband's touch. Maybe he was reminding himself why they took the extra guns in the first place. And yes, maybe he even considered it for a minute - but I don't think I could say he ALMOST did it. 

[mandolin]

He wasn't just getting a boner for her - he got in her personal space, kissing on her without her permission, and he then nearly killed her husband. I don't think it's restrictive to expect men to not behave this way. He put her, himself, and his children in danger.

 

If all men reacted this way just because they haven't had any in a long time, then we'd be watching The Walking Shanes. Even Shane was more restrained for a while.

 

I know there are lots of different, strong opinions on this situation, but I don't think Rick was "kissing on her." He gave her a cheek kiss after she'd been nice to him. My husband's uncle kisses my cheek every time I see him (he does it with everyone); it's just a thing. We've not seen Rick do it, but Beth kissed him on the cheek once up on a time.

 

And I don't think Rick "nearly killed" Pete. He touched his gun. Didn't even draw it. Shane was holding his loaded weapon on Rick about one episode after Rick got to the quarry.

[BrokenRemote]

I know there are lots of different, strong opinions on this situation, but I don't think Rick was "kissing on her." He gave her a cheek kiss after she'd been nice to him. My husband's uncle kisses my cheek every time I see him (he does it with everyone); it's just a thing. We've not seen Rick do it, but Beth kissed him on the cheek once up on a time.

 

And I don't think Rick "nearly killed" Pete. He touched his gun. Didn't even draw it. Shane was holding his loaded weapon on Rick about one episode after Rick got to the quarry.

 

Beth kissed Rick on the cheek?  I'd forgotten that! Unfair Blondes!  Was Rick still married then?  I can't remember, and I need to know!

[The Mighty Peanut]

I don't think it's going to happen because this isn't that kind of show (which is fine) but it would be interesting to see how people would handle a normal extramarital affair between basically ok people in a small, closed group after an apocalyptic event. Does Jessie get shunned by the book club, do Rick and Pete have to work together, do people take sides in such a way that it leads to someone being exiled? I have a feeling Pete is going to be abusive and/or a spy and Carol will ferret it out, but if not it'd be kind of a cool concept.

Also, Rick isn't really a drinker these days so I forgive him for getting buzzy and kissing Jessie on the cheek. It's not like he threw her over the counter and ravished her, you know, like he does with me in my dreams every night.

Edited March 9, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[kikismom]

Oh, if she'd been at this point after 6 months on the show it would be one thing, but she's been on for 5 minutes in two episodes. Her lines so far would maybe fill one script page. Carol was a cipher from season one till season 2. Beth was less than a cipher for the first 4 years she was on the show. Michonne was a cipher for a long time. I would say the same for many of the men.

 

I think it is less realistic when a character shows up with a full backstory and a whole episode to themselves. Not everyone has to join the story the way Gareth did.

 

 

 

The writing for women was abysmal in the first two seasons, so if you're saying Jessie's writing is on that level, I think it shows part of the problem. 

 

No,  I was saying that people who were introduced with very vague characters eventually became very very important to the story!

Just because someone is a cipher now, upon first meeting, doesn't mean that is all they will ever be.!

Look at Carol and Beth who were just in the background for a couple seasons!

This new character has just been there for a few minutes on two eps and some posters feel they already know everything there is to know about her and anything she could ever be or do.

 

Rosita had only a couple words at most in her first several episodes. But people didn't post die die die stab her in the face die already. Let's give the character a chance---I do not mean a chance to like her; go ahead and dislike her but there may be more to happen that we will all be surprised by.

They say at the beginning of every season that they will do less inventing but they only say that it always goes into uncharted territiory.

Edited March 9, 2015 by kikismom

[MissL]

 

Does anyone else think Eric's awful story about pasta machine lady was pre-planned to be ridiculous/boring to Daryl? Thus giving Aaron the chance to share private eye-roll with Daryl and imply You and I get each other so much better...

I didn't get that. Actually Aaron shared a look with Eric when he started in on the pasta maker which is when Eric realized Aaron hadn't asked Daryl to be his recruiting partner yet.

[LVmom]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I too am disappointed Rick is going there with Jessie. I'm not typically a shipper, but I do love the familial chemistry Rick, Michonne and Carl have. It's so disappointing to think they're going to break away from my favorite family unit. Rick also disappointed me with the whole "claim" crap that happened at the end when he saw Jessie with her husband.

 

I understand life isn't perfect, and things don't have to be boxed just so, but if they can make so many changes to the original story, why can't they use the chemistry that Michonne and Rick have in spades?

 

Other than that, I actually like where the story is headed. You can only endure so many episodes of them nearly starving to dead or being beaten down by life. I at least feel like the story is moving forward. 

[Caelicola]

He wasn't just getting a boner for her - he got in her personal space, kissing on her without her permission, and he then nearly killed her husband. I don't think it's restrictive to expect men to not behave this way. He put her, himself, and his children in danger.

 

I get where you're coming from, and as a woman I am aware of how media can influence culture and vice versa; but seriously, if a man kissed me on the cheek, in a public, fully lit place, with people I know all around us, after I spent the evening reassuring him about how nice the place we're in is, and after I've just returned his baby daughter to his arms, I wouldn't for one second see it as rapey o predatory.

[mandolin]

Beth kissed Rick on the cheek?  I'd forgotten that! Unfair Blondes!  Was Rick still married then?  I can't remember, and I need to know!

Lori was dead, but she hadn't been for long. It was after Rick saved Maggie from Woodbury (5 eps after Lori's death - I googled). I guess he was still married to Ghost Lori however.

[Pete Martell]

I think Rick's hand brushing over his gun is a far cry from "nearly killed her husband".  There are a lot of ways that could be interpreted.  Jessie seemed to pull away from Pete a little--that could have been nothing more than a cop's instinct to protect a citizen who's about to get manhandled.

 

If this was Daryl or Abe, would everyone be so distraught?

 

People can interpret it how they wish - it's my opinion, no more or less. Rick was taught that guns are something to be used sparingly and wisely, not in the heat of a moment. That he even considered shooting her husband solely because he saw them walking down the street together rings huge alarm bells for me, as did the borderline unhinged look on his face afterward. Between that and the kiss, I feel like he sees her as his property. Maybe I'm misreading it and Talking Dead and the woman who plays Jessie are right and this is a superspecial romantic connection, but it didn't come across that way to me. 

 

I would be disturbed if Daryl or Abraham behaved this way, yes. I don't want to see any man act that way.

[lamadeleine]

 

I know there are lots of different, strong opinions on this situation, but I don't think Rick was "kissing on her." He gave her a cheek kiss after she'd been nice to him. My husband's uncle kisses my cheek every time I see him (he does it with everyone); it's just a thing. We've not seen Rick do it, but Beth kissed him on the cheek once up on a time.

I didn't think the kiss was predatory in nature, per say, but it sure was one of the most sexually loaded pecks on the cheek I've seen...and both Rick and Jessie seemed to be fully active participants in it.

[Nashville]

I think Rick's hand brushing over his gun is a far cry from "nearly killed her husband". There are a lot of ways that could be interpreted. Jessie seemed to pull away from Pete a little--that could have been nothing more than a cop's instinct to protect a citizen who's about to get manhandled.

Agree. I viewed this as a simple writer's device, to show Rick has some internal sense of potential conflict/confrontation. As to the source of conflict - who knows?

• Attraction to Jessie?
• Possessiveness of Jessie?
• Pete's porchdick vibe jangling Rick's sheriff-spidey-senses as a potential abuser?

Stay tuned, sports fans, for the next thrilling episode of Rick Grimes, Corpse Constable!

ETA: Frikkin' autocorrect changing English for garbage...! #^%?!+

Edited March 9, 2015 by Nashville

[Pete Martell]

I get where you're coming from, and as a woman I am aware of how media can influence culture and vice versa; but seriously, if a man kissed me on the cheek, in a public, fully lit place, with people I know all around us, after I spent the evening reassuring him about how nice the place we're in is, and after I've just returned his baby daughter to his arms, I wouldn't for one second see it as rapey o predatory.

 

What if you knew your husband was violent or unstable (as they may be implying with her husband), and could get angry if he sees a strange, handsome man so close to you, kissing you, staring into your eyes?

 

Rick clearly got a bad vibe off her husband, yet he's encouraging a boiling point that he won't even be directly affected by, as she's the one who has to go back home with Pete.

 

I also felt like the way he went in for the kiss, the look on his face, was odd and possessive. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by Pete Martell

[BrokenRemote]

What if you knew your husband was violent or unstable (as they may be implying with her husband), and could get angry if he sees a strange, handsome man so close to you, kissing you, staring into your eyes?

 

Rick clearly got a bad vibe off her husband, yet he's encouraging a boiling point that he won't even be directly affected by, as she's the one who has to go back home with Pete.

 

I also felt like the way he went in for the kiss, the look on his face, was odd and possessive. 

 

I felt the way he went in for the kiss, the look on his face was startled and awkward. 

[Pete Martell]

No,  I was saying that people who were introduced with very vague characters eventually became very very important to the story!

Just because someone is a cipher now, upon first meeting, doesn't mean that is all they will ever be.!

Look at Carol and Beth who were just in the background for a couple seasons!

This new character has just been there for a few minutes on two eps and some posters feel they already know everything there is to know about her and anything she could ever be or do.

 

Rosita had only a couple words at most in her first several episodes. But people didn't post die die die stab her in the face die already. Let's give the character a chance---I do not mean a chance to like her; go ahead and dislike her but there may be more to happen that we will all be surprised by.

They say at the beginning of every season that they will do less inventing but they only say that it always goes into uncharted territiory.

 

People spent Rosita's first episode talking about how ridiculous she and her wardrobe were and how they didn't care if she lived or died. If anything I've seen a lot more support for Jessie than I saw for Rosita.

 

Beth and Carol were ciphers early on, but at least their stories and reactions were about them, even in the early days. 

 

Jessie's entire character is about Rick. Rick's love connection. Rick's lust. Rick getting over Lori. We know nothing else about her in two episodes, even as we've seen little moments of personality from a dozen other people in Alexandria.

 

When women on the show are written to be about men, like Lori was, and like Andrea was with The Governor, or to a lesser degree Maggie with Glenn in late season 4, I think it not only demeans the characters, but it hurts the show as a whole.

 

It could improve. Jessie could become awesome. But for now, I do think she's badly written, in a way only a handful of women have been in some of the worst periods of the show.

[AndySmith]

 

The Governor controlled his people with fear of the outside world and the feeling they had to put up with things to live safe.

 

But why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why not a middle ground? Why not a mix of the pragmatism and strength Rick's group can offer along with the sense of community building Deanna's group can offer? And a real community, not the sorry excuse for one that we've seen in places like Woodbery and/or the prison. Unless both sides realize this, ASZ as it is will not be long for this world (hey, the season finale is coming up...).

 

The show does seem to be be trying to beat the whole "you're either the hunter or the hunted" ethos quite a bit this season.

[Caelicola]

What if you knew your husband was violent or unstable (as they may be implying with her husband), and could get angry if he sees a strange, handsome man so close to you, kissing you, staring into your eyes?

 

Rick clearly got a bad vibe off her husband, yet he's encouraging a boiling point that he won't even be directly affected by, as she's the one who has to go back home with Pete.

 

I also felt like the way he went in for the kiss, the look on his face, was odd and possessive. 

Now, I've been fortunate enough to never be in an abusive relationship, so I won't pretend knowing how abused women would react, but if my husband was violent and unstable to the point where a stranger kissing me on the cheek in front of pretty much everyone we know was enough to set him off, I hope I wouldn't blame that on the man who kissed me on the cheek, but entirely on my asshole husband.

I just think that is a completely different issue, though, because it really has nothing to do with finding the kiss itself creepy or predatorial. She's also a grown woman, who walked away with a little smile instead of telling him to fuck off, or to never do it again, or acting freaked out and terrified. We don't know if she's a victim, yet, but we are already victimizing her. She could have told him to stop, she could have reprimanded him, he's not that scary-looking and they were at a party with people she's known and trusted for at least two years; that would have been the safest moment for her to draw the line, if she felt she needed to. She didn't.

[BrokenRemote]

People spent Rosita's first episode talking about how ridiculous she and her wardrobe were and how they didn't care if she lived or died. If anything I've seen a lot more support for Jessie than I saw for Rosita.

 

Beth and Carol were ciphers early on, but at least their stories and reactions were about them, even in the early days. 

 

Jessie's entire character is about Rick. Rick's love connection. Rick's lust. Rick getting over Lori. We know nothing else about her in two episodes, even as we've seen little moments of personality from a dozen other people in Alexandria.

 

When women on the show are written to be about men, like Lori was, and like Andrea was with The Governor, or to a lesser degree Maggie with Glenn in late season 4, I think it not only demeans the characters, but it hurts the show as a whole.

 

It could improve. Jessie could become awesome. But for now, I do think she's badly written, in a way only a handful of women have been in some of the worst periods of the show.

I disagree that Jessie's character is only about Rick.  In my opinion, it's clunky for new characters to be introduced without it being through the eyes of "our group", so we meet her through Rick's eyes (maybe because there's an attraction there, sure). But we have seen and learned things about Jessie that are nothing to do with Rick: she likes owls, she loves her kids, she likes babies, things are tense between her and her husband.  Pete bosses her around a little, even in front of the rest of the town. She doesn't like Pete pulling her close.  She's open and friendly, possibly a little too smiley in the face of how things appear in her marriage. She's building a sculpture with her kids--an owl, an animal she likes we know because she has a tattoo of one.   She works in the pantry.  She's naïve--maybe even a little Pollyanna-tending.  She's obviously been sheltered.  She seems to be about putting up a good façade.

 

Some of these things may or may not wind up affecting Rick, some have nothing to do with him whatsoever. but in my opinion they're not about propping him up.  They're about developing the character of Jessie.  Having her like owls and work in the pantry does nothing, in my opinion, to prop up Rick.  Those things show us who she is.  I don't personally want an infodump--I want to meet new characters a little at a time. 

Edited March 9, 2015 by BrokenRemote

[Yolapukka]

 

He wasn't just getting a boner for her - he got in her personal space, kissing on her without her permission, and he then nearly killed her husband. I don't think it's restrictive to expect men to not behave this way. He put her, himself, and his children in danger.

 

 Rick's attitude is making me uncomfortable. However, touching his gun creepily after encountering Pete walking with Jessie is not even in the same ballpark as trying to kill him. At most it gives me suspicion of thought-crime not an actual aggressive act. 

 

As for the kiss, in and of itself it wouldn't bother me. It was an unguarded moment when he'd had a fair bit of alcohol and Jessie didn't seem offended and had got in his personal space herself.  I don't believe he was making an intentional pass, it was an impulse that fell on the wrong side of appropriate, mostly because of his own reaction afterwards. The stalkerish staring is far more concerning and intrusive to me than a peck on the cheek, especially considering that though Jessie has been friendly, it's been welcoming, not flirtatious.

[Caelicola]

 The stalkerish staring is far more concerning and intrusive to me than a peck on the cheek, especially considering that though Jessie has been friendly, it's been welcoming, not flirtatious.

Ok, now, that I get entirely, because Andy Lincoln can make his eyes go so glacially cold that having those on me would probably freak me the fuck out. That I understand completely, and did find kinda creepy.

[Morrigan2575]

I think Rick's hand brushing over his gun is a far cry from "nearly killed her husband".  There are a lot of ways that could be interpreted.  Jessie seemed to pull away from Pete a little--that could have been nothing more than a cop's instinct to protect a citizen who's about to get manhandled.

 

If this was Daryl or Abe, would everyone be so distraught?

on last week's thread someone called that Pete was going to be an abusive jerk and Carol would intervene to save Jesse. I think they were half right, the show clearly hinted at Pete being abusive in this episode. The scene at the dinner party where Pete went to go refill their glasses heavily hinted at abusive/drunk jerk.

In this case, i'm thinking Rick will be the one to intervene.

[kikismom]

But why does it have to be one extreme or the other? Why not a middle ground? Why not a mix of the pragmatism and strength Rick's group can offer along with the sense of community building Deanna's group can offer? And a real community, not the sorry excuse for one that we've seen in places like Woodbery and/or the prison. Unless both sides realize this, ASZ as it is will not be long for this world (hey, the season finale is coming up...).

 

The show does seem to be be trying to beat the whole "you're either the hunter or the hunted" ethos quite a bit this season.

I suspect because at this point in the thinning of the herd, most reasonable people are long gone and those who have what it takes to survive, much less lead, are going to be assertive personalities by nature.

Read that as control freaks.

Not saying that's a bad thing if it helps you live; look what happened at Terminus when they first tried being all humanitarian and charitable (I'll never forget those girl's screams). But look what they became later.

 

It's a bit like going to prison---wouldn't be so bad if everyone inside agreed to do each other no harm, and help each other make it through their time and have a better future.

Bwahahahaha!

Just kidding, that would never happen.

[kj4ever]

If this was about Rick getting a piece of ass, then I'm sure there are other options beyond a married woman whose husband is clearly on high alert. 

 

He wasn't just getting a boner for her - he got in her personal space, kissing on her without her permission, and he then nearly killed her husband. I don't think it's restrictive to expect men to not behave this way. He put her, himself, and his children in danger.

 

If all men reacted this way just because they haven't had any in a long time, then we'd be watching The Walking Shanes. Even Shane was more restrained for a while.

 

And if the show really has brought a woman in solely to get Rick hard, with no purpose or personality of her own, then I think that's very regressive and cheapens everything they've built up over the last few seasons in how female characters are treated.

I think she has a personality.  She seems sweet, kind, and compassionate.  I realize that isn't the exciting personality of Psychotic Carol (I love psychotic Carol btw..) or bad ass michonne, but there is something to be said about a compassionate person.  

 

People act like Jessie planned all their meetings.  Deanna sent her over with the basket of goodies, and since Rick had shaving cream on his face still and said they were cleaning up she offered to give him a hair cut.  Sound the alarms, there's a femme fatale up in here!  The next time he broke her sculpture, and then at the party her own hubby left her alone with him.

 

I would think that after what he's been through someone reaching out a hand of friendship and showing genuine concern would be extremely attractive.  I don't think "the kiss" (jesus on twitter people are acting like he hiked her skirt up and took her right there!) was meant to be sexual but as a thank you.  If getting one of those means they want to jump your bones, well I've got lots of men out there that want to jump my bones.

 

I do think though that after he got close to her he was all Whoooah.....

[BrokenRemote]

My guess is that someone else will intervene, and Rick will swoop in to comfort Jessie.  I could 100% see Carol taking care of Pete if he's trouble.

 

I am one of those fans who said I don't want characters pairing off, and I don't.  That's not what I watch this show for.  But I don't have a problem with a main character having a little brief something with one of the secondary characters.  (Because two main characters getting together means endless draaaamaaaa foreverandeverandever, or the two of them only getting scenes about their TWUWOVE4EVA!, or someone having to die to split them up.)  Jessie is, in my opinion, shaping up to be a secondary character, in the grand tradition of Beth--likely to be brought to the forefront for a short while due to her brief affiliation with a main character, then cannon fodder when the writers want some tears.   I could be wrong, but that's how my gut tells me this is going to play out.