Michelle and JimBob aka J'Chelle and Boob

[Defrauder]

I guess they mentally prepare themselves for it in some way.  Kiss, take off clothes, lay there, it won't take long.  

[GeeGolly]

Going from first kiss to all the way in one day has to be awkward it some ways.  Plus it's not always very comfortable or pain-free the first time for a woman.  Not to mention it's also literally the first time the couple has had a one on one conversation without chaperone's present.  The whole thing has to be a shock to one's system.  Like going from 0 to 80 down the highway in record time.

Yah, and they can't even use a little alcohol to quell the nerves.

[Happyfatchick]

Going from first kiss to all the way in one day has to be awkward it some ways.  Plus it's not always very comfortable or pain-free the first time for a woman.  Not to mention it's also literally the first time the couple has had a one on one conversation without chaperone's present.  The whole thing has to be a shock to one's system.  Like going from 0 to 80 down the highway in record time.

. Haha, good analogy! Except it would be going 0-80 NAKED, with someone you hardly know, and neither of you knows how to drive. I too, meandered down that thought path when those poor girls got married. No build up, just...BAM!!! Typically, you'd think if your sister just went there (Jill), she'd be giving tips and sharing information. But Jill doesn't seem like that kind of information sharer to me. So Jill had to deal with the first night jitters and then Jessa did it right behind her. JESSA would have been willing to chat, I bet Jill didn't. I couldn't get OVER that, at the time of the weddings, how WEIRD that must have been. And not a little weird, either, I'm talking creepy weird. And you KNOW...both couples surely had to feel like JB was standing there in the dark, coaching them. Ugh, gives me the willies!!!

[Missy Vixen]

You know, that whole thing is so far removed from my realm of experience that I never thought too much about putting myself in that position, but you're right. If I'd been alone with a boy for the first time, had my first kiss AND my first sexual encounter within 24 hours, my head would have exploded.

If that was not enough fun, there's a guy involved who has no idea what he's doing. Or has practiced on Legos.

 

I'm sure a fun time is had by all. Plus, consider the pressure the young Mrs. Dillard was under to become pregnant at the speed of light, for instance.

Not to mention it's also literally the first time the couple has had a one on one conversation without chaperone's present.  The whole thing has to be a shock to one's system.  Like going from 0 to 80 down the highway in record time.

Does anyone else besides me wonder how long it was before certain parties found out about the family secret? Was there any talking at all that first night? How about the first week? What was the reaction when a Duggar daughter mentioned she used to sleep in her street clothes, or did something slightly outside of the norm to her brand-new husband? When did Bin and derickdillard finally figure out that maybe things weren't quite what they were presented to be during the courtships?

 

Mods: I hope this is not too far afield.

[Darknight]

Michelle's body is ruined. No way in hell it's not. She had 22 pregnancies and 19kids and typically got pregnant every year. It takes time got your body to heal after birth. Her uterus boobs stomach are probably jacked up.

[Wellfleet]

I'm sure many a Duggar girl will think on her wedding night "all that hoopla for this? You've got to be kidding"

 

Queen Victoria famously told the first of her daughters to be married: "Just lie there, and think of England..." 

[SometimesBites]

Going on record, friends: I have no doubt that giving birth 19 times has been crazy hard on Michelle's body, and I get what a stressor repeated and relentless pregnancy presents. I have trouble, though, with using the word "ruined" to describe the way pregnancy changes the body. My 5 full-term pregnancies left a legacy, for sure. I'm different than I was before the children, but I'm not ruined. :)

[Tabbygirl521]

Michelle "only" gave birth 17 times, right? Two sets of twins...

I don't like the word "ruined" in this context, either. It sounds like a woman's body isn't worthwhile unless it conforms to society's definition of sex-ay. Am sick of the male gaze defining everything.

[frenchtoast]

Folks, snark is fine and we often make fun of their clothing and hair. But body shaming is something we discourage. There is a difference between noting that aging changes a body and saying that someone is worthless because of it. Body shaming is not just about Michelle because such statements encompass everyone, including people here.

 

We know that was never the intent, that posters here are thoughtful, kind and supportive. We just wanted to point out when you say pregnancy ruins a woman's body, that comment touches home with many posters here, too. It is possible to note the physical changes without making a judgment call that is intended to devalue women (including women here) by implying her only worth is her body. We do understand that the Duggars place a different worth on women, but we do not have join them in that.

[Defrauder]

Queen Victoria famously told the first of her daughters to be married: "Just lie there, and think of England..." 

I'm gonna try that.

[Aja]

The most disturbing thing about Michelle to me is how severe her self-abuse is. Even before the scandal, I got a really dark feeling from Michelle. I can't imagine what drives a person to viciously, intentionally abuse their bodies almost to the point of death over a period of decades the way Michelle has done. Despite everything that happened with Josie, she just had to get pregnant AGAIN?  Didn't she have to search long and hard to find an obstetrician who would even go near her after a while? Michelle's possible death was a totally secondary afterthought in comparison to the glory of another blessing. She seems to buy into how expendable she is just as much as everyone else does. We've all talked about how Michelle is more interested in giving birth than being a mother, and this whole line of reasoning illustrates that perfectly. During the whole Jubilee ammo-box burial fiasco, I don't recall one word of concern about the fate of the children if Michelle passed away trying to deliver baby number 20, likely because there wouldn't BE any huge problem with Michelle not being around. The sister moms can take care of everything until Jim Bob finds another Godly vessel. Oh, Michelle. Why do you hate yourself this much? 

[Churchhoney]

The most disturbing thing about Michelle to me is how severe her self-abuse is. Even before the scandal, I got a really dark feeling from Michelle. I can't imagine what drives a person to viciously, intentionally abuse their bodies almost to the point of death over a period of decades the way Michelle has done. Despite everything that happened with Josie, she just had to get pregnant AGAIN?  Didn't she have to search long and hard to find an obstetrician who would even go near her after a while? Michelle's possible death was a totally secondary afterthought in comparison to the glory of another blessing. She seems to buy into how expendable she is just as much as everyone else does. We've all talked about how Michelle is more interested in giving birth than being a mother, and this whole line of reasoning illustrates that perfectly. During the whole Jubilee ammo-box burial fiasco, I don't recall one word of concern about the fate of the children if Michelle passed away trying to deliver baby number 20, likely because there wouldn't BE any huge problem with Michelle not being around. The sister moms can take care of everything until Jim Bob finds another Godly vessel. Oh, Michelle. Why do you hate yourself this much? 

 

Well, as another ATI stalwart has apparently said, "Since God made me to be a doormat, I will be the best doormat I can be.” I expect that's some of it at least. Like a competition among monks to see who can wear the most horrible hairshirt for longest, maybe? And Michelle has proven pretty hard to beat in the baby-ejecting category.

 

See here for ATI's messages to young women: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/created-to-be-his-doormat-wende-benners-story/

Edited August 12, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Aja]

See here for ATI's messages to young women: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/2015/08/10/created-to-be-his-doormat-wende-benners-story/

That was horrific. It also makes me think that there is just NO WAY every single Duggar girl buys into that crap 100%. They may be intimidated into keeping sweet RIGHT NOW, but it won't last. Statistically impossible. Too many holes in the cheese. I wonder how isolated they try to keep the girls from each other when they're at freaking EXCEL. I'd have thought getting that many adolescent girls together would be kind of dangerous, from a Gothard perspective, in terms of the sharing and discussing their beliefs and their lives.

[Missy Vixen]

IMHO of course, but I would not be surprised to learn that J-Chelle has had plastic surgery.

[Defrauder]

As much as I dislike Michelle for passing her babies off to the next in line and for many other reasons, I can almost feel sorry for her and pity her.  I don't think she's dealing with reality.  The 3 year old baby girl voice for starters, there's just something wrong with her and with JB's praise and support of the way she is (because he likes it like that) she's just going to stay that way.  So much chaos around her, she spoke one time about when you have children you have to die to yourself.  I think she was trying to say that you need to be unselfish, but in a way I think she did 'die to herself'. Her adult self. She just became very childlike and dependent.  Had she not 'died to herself' she would have stopped adding to the chaos around her and she probably would have been a normal type working mother or even a stay at home mom as an equal to JB and not his  subordinate.

 

She remembers a time, before JB & 19 kids, when she wasn't dead to herself and I think that maybe the baby voice and passing off the kids to buddies is the only way Michelle connects to the child that  she was before she met JB and died.

[kalamac]

It is telling that she calls JB her buddy, when that is also the term she uses for the sister mums and the littles.

[Defrauder]

Yes, she's JB's 'buddy', just like one of her kids.

IMHO of course, but I would not be surprised to learn that J-Chelle has had plastic surgery.

We'll see because she would probably asked to look like she is permanently pregnant.

[Micks Picks]

I still think Michelle has been beaten down by JB in every way but physically.  I think he was desperate to have her and afraid to lose her.  So he "lovingly" directs her to do all these godly things and be a perfect Gothard woman.  He holds her up to the kids as the example of a sinner.  I don't think she can rationalize anymore.  Josie was born early so that Michelle could live.  What would they have called it if Josie had died?  It was a very close call as it was, and some may say the baby was sacrificed so the mother could live.  There was no chance for Michelle if the baby was not taken.  Michelle lost her sense of self as a protective mechanism against going Andrea Yates crazy, perhaps.  I hope not, but she had a serious problem with a lot of kids, a husband who would not, deliberately,  provide a bigger house and adequate living standards.  She knew what it was like to live freely for 16 or 17 years, do normal things, happily, and then after marriage be told how sinful she was and how lucky she was to have Boob.  I think she died a lot inside.

[GeeGolly]

I don't blame JB for Michelle's emotional state. I believe Michelle was just as much, if not more into Gothard. She is following his tenets because she believes in them. I think it is the extreme religious beliefs that messes with her head and also messed with Andrea Yates. What I find remarkable is why these women don't question why, when following these tenets, that more sacrifices are made by the women than the men. If it is all about respecting Jesus' sacrifices why do men have it easier?

[Defrauder]

Queen Victoria famously told the first of her daughters to be married: "Just lie there, and think of England..." 

OK so I tried it and my husband was like - are you OK, what's wrong, do you want to stop?  So I was like no, no, everything is fine I just wanted to see what it was like to lay here and think of England.  He said what?  You were doing what?  So I just said never mind it didn't  even work.

[Julia]

Queen Victoria also famously left lesbians out of the law which made it illegal to be gay in England because she was convinced they didn't actually exist and refused to allow any legislation which suggested that women would do such a thing. Queen Victoria had a few gaps in her education :)

[flyingdi]

I still say Jim Boob sees Michelle as his reward and Michelle sees Jim Bob as her punishment. I guess that makes them a perfect

couple? Couple of whats, I don't know.

[redlaces]

These fucking people I swear.

[Sew Sumi]

I still say Jim Boob sees Michelle as his reward and Michelle sees Jim Bob as her punishment. I guess that makes them a perfect

couple? Couple of whats, I don't know.

Excellent observation, especially since Mechelle was converted via the fire and brimstone/fear of hell route. I wonder how much she initially knew about dying to self each day (ie the woman's burden)? I know that her daughters are aware of this concept; I am almost positive they "wrote" about it in their "book." It's a sad, sad way to think you need to live your life as a woman. 

[SometimesBites]

OK so I tried it and my husband was like - are you OK, what's wrong, do you want to stop?  So I was like no, no, everything is fine I just wanted to see what it was like to lay here and think of England.  He said what?  You were doing what?  So I just said never mind it didn't  even work.

OMG, I'm laughing so hard at this post. *wipes away a tear.

[Dejana]

Queen Victoria famously told the first of her daughters to be married: "Just lie there, and think of England..." 

 

That quote is from a different Englishwoman, not Queen Victoria. The latter got far more of a say in her choice of spouse than Jim Bob and Michelle has ever given their daughters so far, and Victoria's surviving diaries reveal that she was pretty ecstatic about her wedding night and enjoyed sex in general. Just for the record...

 

I think Jim Bob and Michelle are pretty well matched but have a lot of issues and unfortunately did a massive number on their children.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Dejana

[TomServo]

And, iirc, Gingrich served his wife divorce papers while she was in the hospital recuperating from breast cancer surgery. Whattaguy!

 

According to Gingrich's daughter, Newt Gingrich and his wife were separated and Newt had already filed the papers two months before the hospital visit in question.  They did get into some kind of argument when he took the children to visit her, but she was not in the hospital for cancer surgery nor was she on her deathbed.  She was having a benign tumor removed.  She died in 2013 from "complications of multiple health issues."

Also, Jackie Battley was an interesting piece of work.  She was Gingrich's high school math teacher and some reports claim she started romancing him when he was 16, which if true legally would have classified her as a sex abuser.  The official line is that they didn't date until he turned 18.

[kokapetl]

According to Gingrich's daughter, Newt Gingrich and his wife were separated and Newt had already filed the papers two months before the hospital visit in question.  They did get into some kind of argument when he took the children to visit her, but she was not in the hospital for cancer surgery nor was she on her deathbed.  She was having a benign tumor removed.  She died in 2013 from "complications of multiple health issues."

Also, Jackie Battley was an interesting piece of work.  She was Gingrich's high school math teacher and some reports claim she started romancing him when he was 16, which if true legally would have classified her as a sex abuser.  The official line is that they didn't date until he turned 18.

 Good god these people are all nuts. The current wife is possibly the only 45 year old woman alive dressing to look 65, and whenever I see her I automatically imagine her saying "ack ack, ACK RACK!" like a 'Mars Attacks!' alien disguised as a woman.

I don't blame JB for Michelle's emotional state. I believe Michelle was just as much, if not more into Gothard. She is following his tenets because she believes in them. I think it is the extreme religious beliefs that messes with her head and also messed with Andrea Yates. What I find remarkable is why these women don't question why, when following these tenets, that more sacrifices are made by the women than the men. If it is all about respecting Jesus' sacrifices why do men have it easier?

JimBob truly thinks he's the luckiest guy alive to have scored Michelle, but she seems to have a "I guess I like him enough" attitude towards him. I just can't picture him (successfully) having her bend to his will, they either went nuts together, or she went to crazy town, and he followed her. Neither of them may have intentionally sought out that looney tunes doctor Ed Wheat , he practised in Springdale and it could just be a horrible coincidence their paths crossed.

[Wellfleet]

That quote is from a different Englishwoman, not Queen Victoria. The latter got far more of a say in her choice of spouse than Jim Bob and Michelle has ever given their daughters so far, and Victoria's surviving diaries reveal that she was pretty ecstatic about her wedding night and enjoyed sex in general. Just for the record...

 

I think Jim Bob and Michelle are pretty well matched but have a lot of issues and unfortunately did a massive number on their children.

 

I'm more suspicious that Lady Whoever, writing the "lie there and think of England" line in 1912, was really borrowing it from Victoria, who supposedly said it to one of her own daughters just before her wedding. But I guess we can never know for sure. :>)

[Wellfleet]

 Good god these people are all nuts. The current wife is possibly the only 45 year old woman alive dressing to look 65, and whenever I see her I automatically imagine her saying "ack ack, ACK RACK!" like a 'Mars Attacks!' alien disguised as a woman. JimBob truly thinks he's the luckiest guy alive to have scored Michelle, but she seems to have a "I guess I like him enough" attitude towards him. I just can't picture him (successfully) having her bend to his will, they either went nuts together, or she went to crazy town, and he followed her. Neither of them may have intentionally sought out that looney tunes doctor Ed Wheat , he practised in Springdale and it could just be a horrible coincidence their paths crossed.

 

There are innumerable theories that could be put forth on Boob and Me-chelle - and how they came to become what they are today. We've been told some things outright, we can surmise other points, and we can just plain guess about the rest. In the end, though, I think these two were a Perfect Storm of psychology, just waiting to find each other. If either one had become involved with someone else, an entirely different situation would have resulted. Together, they were just the right cold and warm air masses needed for one heck of a storm.

[flyingdi]

I hate to defend Jim Bob but I don't think he abuses Michelle. I think he adores her. There is inherent sexism in the nature of his beliefs, however. I think he continually brings up Michelle's past "sins", not to shame her, but because he finds them exciting.

Michelle, on the other hand, I believe she really does think she has done something awful which she must constantly atone for. I don't think it's the bikini incident, but I won't pretend to know what it is. I firmly believe Michelle jumped on the crazy train with both feet.

Sadly, I see the same thing sort of happening with Jinger. She seems to believe she has done something that is inherently bad. I hope I am wrong.

[truebluesmoky]

My friend saw Michelle at the airport in NYC today... wait for it... holding Israel and bouncing him on her knee!

[Sew Sumi]

Here is a pic of them at the airport. 

 

https://instagram.com/p/6X6hvrrs4N/

[Defrauder]

My friend saw Michelle at the airport in NYC today... wait for it... holding Israel and bouncing him on her knee!

Proof that he's still under 6 months old.

[floridamom]

Why was Michelle asked to participate in that documentary in the first place? I also don't think that Jill and Jessa were necessary either. These people, IMO, are not good examples for that subject.....their behavior and attitudes about their "issue" with Josh was and still is trivialized.

[Sew Sumi]

Putting Mechelle, who covered up for the molester, in this documentary (if that's what happened) is unconscionable. She showed no heart toward her victim-daughters, reserving it all for her firstborn. I will punch something if it turns out she is actively involved in this project. 

Edited August 14, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[JoanArc]

 

Putting Mechelle, who covered up for the molester, in this documentary (if that's what happened) is unconscionable.

Agreed. This shitty documentary just gets worse. How I feel about it:

 

[Aja]

Yeah, why the hell is Michelle there? I don't trust that at all.

[Fuzzysox]

Yeah, why the hell is Michelle there? I don't trust that at all.

Because she went to babysit Bin!! 

[Sew Sumi]

I mentioned this in the media thread (I think), but Mechelle wasn't listed as being involved in the press release that named Jessa and Jill. She has to be there supervising her grown daughters, making sure they don't deviate from the script that the PR guy laid out for them back before the Megyn Kelly interview.  

 

ie. JB and Mechelle don't trust their daughters to do this on their own. Well, we've seen how they have micromanaged Josh, aside from the choice to go to DC. However, JB still managed to keep him close...don't forget that Josh returned home multiple times each month. JB gave the girls free houses...with strings. Now, I think we might be seeing just what it entails to live in those houses for free. 

Edited August 15, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[JoanArc]

In the end, I don't think this matters. No one launched, let alone saved their TV careers by talking about their molestation. The goose is cooked, eaten, and the bones are being picked clean. This is probably the last comped trip and paycheck the family is gonna see.

[Wellfleet]

I hate to defend Jim Bob but I don't think he abuses Michelle. I think he adores her. There is inherent sexism in the nature of his beliefs, however. I think he continually brings up Michelle's past "sins", not to shame her, but because he finds them exciting.

Michelle, on the other hand, I believe she really does think she has done something awful which she must constantly atone for. I don't think it's the bikini incident, but I won't pretend to know what it is. I firmly believe Michelle jumped on the crazy train with both feet.

Sadly, I see the same thing sort of happening with Jinger. She seems to believe she has done something that is inherently bad. I hope I am wrong.

 

100% agree. I'm guessing Boob - the Proverbial Geek - has never gotten over the thrilling fact that he landed the school's pretty but very naughty little tramp, to his way of thinking at least. And I'm not sure if the bikini-wearing, lawn-mowing Me-chelle was the thing for which she feels she needs punishment - or if there was something else entirely. In my own head, the theory that they "did it" before the wedding and maybe even became pregnant keeps coming up. Because there did seem to be a major rush for a wedding... Who knows?

Edited August 17, 2015 by Wellfleet

[kokapetl]

I think the Ruark family's impending relocation back to Ohio played a big role in Michelle and JimBob marrying at 17 and 19. Michelle's 'hands off' parenting inclination could be a reflection of her own parents. Her family don't appear to be anywhere near as clingy or as attached to each other like JimBob's.

[Wellfleet]

I think the Ruark family's impending relocation back to Ohio played a big role in Michelle and JimBob marrying at 17 and 19. Michelle's 'hands off' parenting inclination could be a reflection of her own parents. Her family don't appear to be anywhere near as clingy or as attached to each other like JimBob's.

 

Well, this is for sure true. It sounds like Me-chelle was a "midlife, surprise" baby for her parents. I wonder if she herself was looked after mainly by her older sisters, just like her own kids have been. Maybe this whole "Sister Moms" deal is something she honestly comes by?

[NewDigs]

In the end, I don't think this matters. No one launched, let alone saved their TV careers by talking about their molestation. The goose is cooked, eaten, and the bones are being picked clean. This is probably the last comped trip and paycheck the family is gonna see.

I kinda' worry that participating in this wretched thing revictimizes the girls.

[Joe Jitsu913]

100% agree. I'm guessing Boob - the Proverbial Geek - has never gotten over the thrilling fact that he landed the school's pretty but very naughty little tramp, to his way of thinking at least. And I'm not sure if the bikini-wearing, lawn-mowing Me-chelle was the thing she feels she needs to be punished for, or if there was something else entirely. In my own head, the theory that they "did it" before the wedding and maybe even became pregnant keeps coming up. Because there did seem to be a major rush for a wedding... Who knows?

The major rush for a wedding comes from Michelle's parents. They were moving out of state due to her father's job and Michelle was supposed to move with them. So Jim Bob decided to ask Michelle to marry him. Imagine how different the world would be if they had never married and Michelle moved away.

[kokapetl]

The family moving back to Ohio really made it a "now or never" situation. It was a choice between never seeing each other again or marriage. Had the family stayed in Arkansas, they wouldn't have had to make that choice, if he had asked her to marry him in those circumstances, her parents might not even have consented to it, the relationship could have reasonably progressed at its own pace, too. It's interesting how it all unfolded. Some guy reassigns an employee, it results in employee's daughter marrying and having 19 kids and a TV show. Like if Hitler had been better received as an artist.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Kokapetl

[Missy Vixen]

I kinda' worry that participating in this wretched thing revictimizes the girls.

I'm sure this makes me the biggest bitch that ever bitched before, but I don't. I'm sure they were more than happy to collect another paycheck. They're probably also hoping the spin-off can be resurrected as well. And the earth will not be able to contain my fury if they use that special to a) insist nothing happened to them and b) proselytize. It's nice of J-Chelle to show up to make sure they all stay on script, too -- oops, collect another paycheck, isn't it?

 

Let's be blunt, shall we? They weren't "revictimized" by the first TV appearance. They repeatedly said "nothing happened" and "we forgave him". Great. Then shut the hell up, get off TV, and go find something else to do with their lives.

[Happyfatchick]

I have big issues with the duggars (even the married and "we forgave him" ones) being involved in the documentary about abuse of any kind. I do. Unless they admit they suffered abuse and did pretty much EVERYTHING wrong - from the incidents to the aftermath. They won't do that, and that's all I'd be interested in hearing from them. If they would simply say, "here's what we did, and here's what we SHOULD have done". I DO NOT want to hear them defending their actions (inactions!) ever again. I fear for the safety of my TV that night, honestly. Gonna have to remove all "throwable" items before I sit down to watch. (Oh, and I WILL WATCH). I can't even IMAGINE the bump in Tums sales for this event. If I see even a hint of M/JB, Tums isn't going to make a dent. I'll be mainlining Nexium. I sincerely hope the piece is well done and the entire Duggar presence is minimal. Except to say "here's what you DON'T do". I can hardly wait to meet you all back here afterward!!!

So did they hurry and take in NYC and then rush off to the wedding?

[kokapetl]

I find it difficult to fault Jill and Jessa for how they handled being sexually abused. No one should have to be the Nadia Comaneci of sexual abuse victims. If sexual abuse led to perfect well adjusted victims, it probably wouldn't be illegal and considered abuse.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Kokapetl