S30.E02: It Will Be My Revenge

[cooksdelight]

If Will had gone with Vince and Nina and voted out Jenn, Joe and Hali would not have been likely to trust him again. And, in fact, that move may have even made them target him next.

It wouldn't have mattered if they targeted Will, they wouldn't have the numbers to vote him out, with Will/Nina/Vince voting the two of them out at the earliest opportunity.

[Special K]

Starting with hipster douchebag media whore who fancies himself so special and bright, but survives solely on attention.  

 

It's a testament to the quality of the casting, that I didn't at first know which of the bozos this season you were referring to.

[ProfCrash]

I don't think Nina is expecting to be coddled. I do think that Nina is used to feeling excluded because of her hearing and that has become one way that she filters the world around her. Hali was trying to get to know Nina and trying to work through the communication issue but we don't see Nina discussing those efforts. It could be that they were limited or that Nina focuses more on the acts of "exclusion" because that has become her filter.

 

There are some excellent posts regarding how people with hearing loss see the world in the Nina topic. It is hard for people who do not have a disability to understand the world through the lens of someone with a disability. I have had to deal with learning disabilities and ADHD and I can see how differently I see the world and how differently I perceive myself from how others perceive me. And those are pretty minor in many ways compared to being deaf. I remember my Dad being awful at helping me with math homework because he could not understand why I wasn't getting the right answer. I have dyslexia and dyscalculia. Math was a struggle for me. My Dad is a genius and math is easy for him. He never called me stupid but I did math homework with him two times and then struggled with my Mom. After he became very depressed, read couldn't get out of bed, he apologized to me and my brother because he finally understood what it was to struggle to do something that seems so basic, to want to do it, but not be able to do it. The experiences were different, depression vs struggle with school work and focus, but the frustration was pretty similar. He didn't get us as people until he became devastatingly ill.

 

I don't recommend this to anyone but just pointing out that disabilities leave you with a different filter and it changes how you interact with others. Jenn's comment at tribal was honest, it was her first time dealing with someone who was deaf and that is hard. They are dealing with each other based on their life experiences and that is not working for the two of them but I don't think they are working at being bad players or that they really understand how to deal with the situation.

[cooksdelight]

It would have been amazingly awesome if Probst had cast another deaf person, the two of them could sit around speaking in sign language and no one would know what the heck they were talking about. They'd have to do it quietly so that they didn't get targeted for elimination, though.

[Hera]

Will is now on the bottom of a 4 person alliance, when he probably could've been on the top of the other.  I'm glad to see Vince go, but Will made a terrible move there.

 

Let us examine Will’s choices.  (1) Stick with the young folk,split the vote, and be in the 4-1 majority.  Downsides, betraying Nina, whom he felt empathy for, and being the definite #4 of that majority.  (2) Use your inside information of the split vote plan to blindside Jenn, be in the 3-2 majority of your tribe - and in a pair within that three.  Or (3) use your knowledge to blindside the guy you aren’t 100% on, betraying both the (now) dominant group of three AND your closest ally on the tribe.

Yeah.  Stick to trying to get acting gigs.  Though major props for “the black man’s Kryptonite,” line.

 

This didn't occur to me when I was watching the show and I definitely see what you two are saying. However, I think there is a chance Will will get away with it. Both Joe and Jenn disliked Vince and if Will can come up with a plausible explanation for changing the plan without telling the others, they might just shrug and say, "Vince might have been marginally more useful to have in challenges than Nina, but on the other hand, we no longer have to put up with his bullshit around camp, so Will is forgiven." Not everyone can get away with this, but it doesn't seem like anyone had anything against Will going into Tribal Council and that he's fairly personable, so he might just squeak by.

 

As for being at the bottom of a four person alliance, that can get you pretty far. I think that's only a problem for Will if the No Collars lose twice in the next two or three immunity challenges. If history is anything to go by, there will be a tribal shake-up before the merge, which could help him, and the closer to the merge he gets, the less appealing he is to vote out over someone like Joe, who is a threat for individual immunity.

[Drogo]

 

The two young girls also didn't 'invite' any of the men to go swimming.  Why should they have invited Nina?  It's a big ocean, Nina.  Go swimming when you want to.

 

Khaleesi (8):  What's skinny dipping? 

Me:  It means they're going in the ocean with no clothes on. 

K:  It doesn't sound like something you'd invite everyone along for. 

 

(and once Nina made her frustrations public about not being invited) (showing shades of her grandmother with this reference)

K:  She's a grown-up, she doesn't need the big fat policeman to tell her it's okay to go with them. 

 

 

I was so glad to see Vince go.  Jeff looked mad about it.

 

Probst:  Vince, the tribe has spoken.

K:  Goodbye, our fine feathered friend.

 

Joaquin:  I have too much pride to walk around naked. 

K:  He probably has hair all over his tush like he has on his head. 

 

Will:  I'm the only brother out here.

K:  How does he know that?  He hasn't even talked to the people on the other 2 tribes. 

 

ETA:  Working off Galaxy notes, sorry if these are staggered.   

Edited March 6, 2015 by Drogo

[Lorimac]

Nina is a horrible player. When Will came to her seeking an alliance mate, all she did was make him as uneasy as possible by questioning his health. Nice one, Nina. Also, crying and yelling at people doesn't tend to keep you around a long time. She is the least valuable player on this season.

YES! I could not believe how obtuse that move was.  She totally painted a target on Vince's back and was completely clueless that she was doing it!

[Drogo]

At first I thought Nina was picking something with the girls to endear herself to the guys as a Lone She-Wolf... but no such luck.  She just doesn't get this game.

 

No-Collar, SMH... Vince tore up the swimming challenge, and if you haven't noticed, you're on an island.  There's going to be plenty more where that came from.  Always vote out Superman when 60% of your challenges will involve Kryptonite. 

Edited March 6, 2015 by Drogo

[Jersey Guy 87]

I give Vince credit for one thing. Not being bitter about being voted out. I was afraid he was going to be very bitter about it.

 

I was hoping for it - I wanted an epic rant but had to settle for the "of course they voted me out first chance, otherwise I was going to win it all and be declared the best Survivor player of all time" post boot talk instead.

 

Vince really did end up doing himself in. He encouraged Nina to feel out Will about his "health" and seemed to revel in giving the "order". Nina seemed to be expressing genuine concern but it is hard to blame Will for being paranoid.

Nina seemed so desperate to align with Vince and do his bidding that she either didn't realize how loaded questions about his "health" would seem or she didn't think ahead in putting the blame on Vince. Either way, she seems a bit clueless and far too sensitive (and honest?) for this game.

 

Vince was so convinced he was the master strategist he had to find a reason to vote basically every person out.  Which, in one sense is okay but you only reveal your thoughts when they're needed.

 

I don't think Nina is too honest for the game, I think she doesn't have an idea how to play.

 

Will made a huge mistake with his vote, making his tribe weaker puts everyone at risk.  You win challenges, you don't go home.  Lose them, and you are at the mercy of the rest of your tribe.  Basic Survivor and he failed, miserably.

 

I'm not at all convinced that voting out Vince made the tribe weaker than the alternatives (which were voting out Nina or Jenn based on the planned voting strategies).  Vince annoys just about everyone, he's a bad personality to have around camp.  He spent an inordinate amount of time getting out of the water when he reached the raft - not as bad as Will's screw up but he still killed a lot of time. And then he completely flailed at shooting a ball into a basket.  In other words, a major negative influence in camp combined with average challenge skills.

Nina would have been an interesting choice for Will - she's not a very good camp presence and her challenge skills are weak.  But Will has a bit of a bond with her (something Joe should have thought of when he put together his split vote strategy) so he was unlikely to vote for her.  Jenn is okay at challenges, seems to be liked by everyone except Nina so not a bad camp presence.  For Will, the options were Vince or Nina and I think they're close to a wash.

[iMonrey]

 

I think I lumped her in with Jenn because the show sort of did, showing her in scenes with Jenn when Jenn was being awful.

 

I'd have to go back and watch it all again, which frankly I have no intention of doing, but I never saw any malice from either Jenn or Hali towards Nina. In fact they seemed to make a point of showing both women not only saying they liked and admired Nina, but through a series of clip also showing how everyone, including the men, were making genuine efforts to communicate with her, which became very frustrating for all of them. And if they're being honest there's nothing mean-spirited about expressing that frustration. I think some of Jenn's talking heads were in response to Nina's outburst which is why Jenn may have come across a tad harsh in just those instances but I never saw any evidence that she treated Nina with anything other than kindness and respect. The only one I saw behaving badly in a group situation was Nina herself, and Hali immediately moved to apologize and comfort her.

 

I honestly see no "mean girl" behavior from either Jenn or Hali. Until they start making fun of other players behind their backs I stand by that observation.

[Drogo]

 

The only one I saw behaving badly in a group situation was Nina herself, and Hali immediately moved to apologize and comfort her.

 

DON'T TOUCH ME!!

[poppy-]

Jenn is acerbic, and her reaction to seeing an upset disabled tribesmate was basically an eye-roll.  She didn't do anything wrong at first, but she is not a person who seems to have any sense of empathy, either. 

 

Who the hell wears a bra and no pants?  If you need to be free enough to go without pants then ok, but why keep the bra?  It really was an exceptionally naked effect.  Plus it made no sense.  You need some kind of pants to sit on jagged rocks,  You don't need a bra for that.

 

Going braless for women with bigger ta-tas isn't comfy.  It's just bouncy.  Or she just might thing her nipples look funny.  Lots of women feel weirder about their nipples than their tush.

[Guest]

I feel like the advantage to going bottomless out there is you walk into the ocean for various reasons throughout the day and walk out and air dry.  Wearing wet, sandy bottoms all day in the tropics is bad.  Stripping to pee, cool off, fish, swim, get dishwater and whatever else you keep doing all day in the ocean is an option but if your tribe is going to see your nude bottom when you walk in and out, what difference does it make if they see it while you air dry and wash the dishes?  

 

I couldn't do it in front of cameramen but I can see their point.  

 

And if I looked like Hali I probably could do it in front of cameramen.  

[ghoulina]

It wouldn't have mattered if they targeted Will, they wouldn't have the numbers to vote him out, with Will/Nina/Vince voting the two of them out at the earliest opportunity.

 

But, after hearing that Vince was concerned about his health/performance, I don't think Will was so sure of having him on his side. He might have assumed that once Vince broke up Jenn/Joe, he'd want to get out Will for being a weaker member. 

 

 

I feel like the advantage to going bottomless out there is you walk into the ocean for various reasons throughout the day and walk out and air dry.  Wearing wet, sandy bottoms all day in the tropics is bad.  Stripping to pee, cool off, fish, swim, get dishwater and whatever else you keep doing all day in the ocean is an option but if your tribe is going to see your nude bottom when you walk in and out, what difference does it make if they see it while you air dry and wash the dishes? 

I couldn't do it in front of cameramen but I can see their point.

 

That is a good point. Good way to get an infection, going around in wet bottoms all day. I might bring along some kind of light, loose skirt to try and remedy the problem. 

[cooksdelight]

If I'm going to air dry, I'll do it with my buff covering my butt. :)

[Guest]

If I'm going to air dry, I'll do it with my buff covering my butt. :)

Oh god, me too.  I'm not so sure a Buff would fit over either mine or Shirin's hips though!  I'd be making a grass skirt or something, though!  

 

Didn't Rupert make himself a skirt so he could... dangle?  

[RedheadZombie]

It would have been amazingly awesome if Probst had cast another deaf person, the two of them could sit around speaking in sign language and no one would know what the heck they were talking about. They'd have to do it quietly so that they didn't get targeted for elimination, though.

 

That would have been awesome!  But I wouldn't be surprised if Nina doesn't know sign language.   She's only been deaf for seven years, so I'm going to assume she didn't learn.  Her speech is perfect, and she probably does ok with the cochlear implants in a calmer environment.  I posted on her thread how she probably doesn't fit in with the deaf community, and not knowing sign language would definitely make her an outcast.

 

Although the edit last night implied Nina felt like she was left out due to her hearing issues, I wonder if she was also feeling "the old lady" label.  She looks great for age and is in such great shape, I bet she's taken for much younger typically.  Not on Survivor - if you're older than thirty, and a woman, you're dismissed.  That's probably a shocker for her.

[Sentient Meat]

According to the show, Nina's only recently lost her hearing.  If she feels abandoned or excluded it's probably because she surrounded herself with shallow assholes her whole life that left her out once she wasn't the cool pretty one anymore.

 

I still feel bad for her, and the girls perhaps could have made more of an effort, but I feel we have to learn more before we can fairly judge.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Sentient Meat

[Way Wes Jr]

Oh god, me too.  I'm not so sure a Buff would fit over either mine or Shirin's hips though!  I'd be making a grass skirt or something, though!  

 

Didn't Rupert make himself a skirt so he could... dangle?  

 

You owe me, and probably others, some brain-bleach.

[needschocolate]

It would have been amazingly awesome if Probst had cast another deaf person, the two of them could sit around speaking in sign language and no one would know what the heck they were talking about. They'd have to do it quietly so that they didn't get targeted for elimination, though.

 

Oh dear, I hope the producers don't see your post - they would probably end up casting people with different disabilities and split them into 3 tribes called Hear no Evil, See No Evil, and Speak No Evil

 

Khaleesi (8):  What's skinny dipping? 

Me:  It means they're going in the ocean with no clothes on. 

K:  It doesn't sound like something you'd invite everyone along for. 

 

(and once Nina made her frustrations public about not being invited) (showing shades of her grandmother with this reference)

K:  She's a grown-up, she doesn't need the big fat policeman to tell her it's okay to go with them. 

 

 

Probst:  Vince, the tribe has spoken.

K:  Goodbye, our fine feathered friend.

 

Joaquin:  I have too much pride to walk around naked. 

K:  He probably has hair all over his tush like he has on his head. 

 

Will:  I'm the only brother out here.

K:  How does he know that?  He hasn't even talked to the people on the other 2 tribes. 

 

ETA:  Working off Galaxy notes, sorry if these are staggered.   

 

In addition to the regular recap, there needs to be a special Khaleesi's Thoughts recap.

[Sarahendipity]

I wonder if there had ben talk of skinnydipping earlier in the day, and Nina expressed some hesitancy, they are on camera after all. That might be where Hali's comment of 'I didn't think she was interested' comes from.

 

As an aside, I am curious what rules there might be around swimming in the ocean. During Challenges there are safety divers in the water, is there a Survivor Lifeguard around? Can Nina's cochlear implants get wet? Could she hear someone struggling in the water? Maybe she has special rules for swimming and it's another reason to feel singled out.

[RedheadZombie]

Cochlear implants cannot get wet, so Nina is deaf in the water.

 

I can't imagine there's anyone around preventing them from drowning when they're not competing.   I remember a season where a tribe had to obtain their fresh water via a boat.  After losing the boat, they had to swim to get fresh water.  That seemed a major drowning hazard.

[KimberStormer]

Whew, I finally saw the episode.  Man, I loved that scene with Will and Nina.  That's the kind of thing I watch Survivor for.  Nina and Vince had that.  They had that vote in the palm of their hand.  Will was doing the work for them, and the plan was airtight.  Then Nina says two sentences, and you can see the light go out of Will's eyes.  And it's game over for Vince.  Beautiful.

 

Admittedly it's best when these decisions are made because of some beautiful manipulation, or really clever thinking, but still, I just love when the game turns in an instant.

 

Vince is dumb for even thinking about going after Joe in the first vote.  Plus all the other reasons.

And Will is dumb because he thought short term instead of long term on the first vote.  Now he's the fourth guy in a five person tribe.  But he got rid of Vince, who he couldn't trust.  Hooray!

 

Plus side: it appears that Sierra is the hot young tall girl who actually played basketball (rare for this show, which doesn't cast athletic women much) and her team knew and respected that and then she came through.  So well done, team Blue Collar.  I think I might like some of you.

 

I think Vince reasoned himself out of his instinct pretty well, though.  Having a terrified Joe who doesn't want to lose because he knows he'll be voted out is a great way to help win challenges.  These days, I would want to be pretty sure nobody on my tribe was thinking of throwing challenges...  I also think Will's choice wasn't actually best for him, but still, not that bad.  The tribe is so small, being 2nd from the bottom is actually being pretty close to the top.  And he knows that these younger people will get rid of Nina before him.  I don't think they'll be that upset about messing up their split-vote plan.

I also like Sierra.  And I kind of like Lindsey too.

 

 Why does Survivor even bother to cast "older" contestants? Probst's BS line about bringing together people "from all walks of life" made my eyes roll out of my head and under the couch.

 

Because from Rudy to Keith, they've provided a lot of entertainment, and people who by Survivor standards are "older" often do well.  It's harder for them, which is too bad, but it's not impossible.

 

 this was only the second episode and Nina is already this emotional??? How is she going to last 39 days.....  

 

From what I've gathered from watching, it seems like the first week is the hardest.  People always break down in episode 2 or 3, and often the very same people regroup well enough to make it to the end.

 

He might be the first Professor (ala Gilligan's Island) who flunks his own course.

Nina is starting to remind me of the woman who cried all the time and lost her teeth in the lagoon.

 

Nina wishes she was as good as Dawn!  Dawn's guilt trips actually worked and torpedoed player after player on Caramoan.

 

 Honestly there's something about a woman, naked only from the waist down that is more naked than naked.

 

This is true of everyone, regardless of gender.  Want to make man look ridiculous?  Give him a T-shirt and nothing else.  As a friend of mine put it once, it's a look that only works on cartoon animals.

 

 The one who's like, "Is this real life?  Is this really happening?"  Sierra (?) seems to think she's been cast in a The Office/Parks and Rec type sitcom and we need her "Comic Relief".  It's not funny, and it's rude!  

 

That was Lindsey.  Sierra's the tall one.

 

 It's all about numbers when they're still split into tribes - especially when it's a meager tribe of six.

 

Malcolm and Denise beg to differ. The Brains outlasted the Beauty tribe, too, despite not having the numbers.  I don't personally believe Survivor is ever a team sport.  Forget the tribe, serve yourself.

Edited March 7, 2015 by KimberStormer

[Drogo]

If I'm going to air dry, I'll do it with my buff covering my butt. :)

Men don't realize how much preventative maintenance is required for those things.

[OMGDwayne]

Hey Survivor fans. First time here. Love the posts.

 

I, for one, am extremely happy that Vince got his torch snuffed. Mrs. OMGDwayne is similarly delighted.

He's just so pathological and delusional. The way he gropes the girls and was jealous that they liked that other guy (who is infinitely cooler and is a team player) Vince was pretty loathsome. The bad vibes flowed off him in wave after wave.

 

I agree with some that he would have been entertaining, but getting kicked out this early was a very satisfying message to Vince that I would have loved to deliver in person. So a vicarious thrill for me I guess.

 

I like a lot of the players though. Too early to get too emotionally invested, but I like the new team concept. Still don't have all the names squared away.

[Omega Mu]

 

oaquin has a French last name and a Hispanic first name.  He reminds me of someone famous but I can't think who

Lorenzo Lamas?

 

[JudyObscure]

Man, I loved that scene with Will and Nina.  That's the kind of thing I watch Survivor for.  Nina and Vince had that.  They had that vote in the palm of their hand.  Will was doing the work for them, and the plan was airtight.  Then Nina says two sentences, and you can see the light go out of Will's eyes.  And it's game over for Vince.  Beautiful.

Heck, yeah!  My friends who scorn me for watching reality TV have no idea how good it gets.  This show could fill an entire curriculum requirement for psychology credit or for people with problems understanding social cues. At first, I thought it was Nina's deafness that was making her blind to Will's facial expressions during that scene, but that doesn't make a bit of sense. So awesome it made me gasp out loud.

[marys1000]

I'm not a particular fan of Vince but I think some of the knee jerk assessments of him have been  way over the top, as I'm sure the editors hoped.  I was hoping he stuck around (1) so we could see what he was really like and whether he deserved all the disgust (if editing allowed) and because I think it was sort of a bad move for Will who I like.  I think if I were out there and saw the young kids forming a tight bond it would worry me too.  Its obviously something you need to be worried about and for Vince to be castigated so thoroughly for being a bit paranoid....  His interviews sound pretty sane if a little "california". 

 

I think Jenn and Hali not only have no idea what its like to be deaf or how poorly hearing devices really work but haven't really tried to figure it out.  Should Nina be specific and tell them?  Yes.  Maybe she did and they didn't show it, maybe she didn't.  Vince, in interviews, didn't slam the girls about when asked but did say they didn't seem to try to speak directly to her face or implant like they needed to, so clearly he figure it out.  They need to be tight as a team till the merge.  For them to just blow off team relationns because they have an alliance is poor play.  I'm rooting for Will and Nina although I suspect my good will won't be enough. 

 

Am I the only one disgusted by Dan? pooping in the water?  I realize its the ocean and all but still.  For urine sure, but there are all sorts of back eddy and weird wave actions (hence that piece of driftwood that hangs around forever), do you really want to be lounging in the water and have a baby ruth moment?  Dig a hole in the jungle please! 

Edited March 7, 2015 by marys1000

[Zahdii]

Pooping in the ocean has been done before on Survivor.  I think they've said that they go a distance from the camp to do it, and proclaiming that they're going for a poop usually keeps other people from coming along, plus they don't have to wipe with leaves that might be scratchy or be carrying bugs.

 

Anyway, many seasons ago two women were having a strategic conversation while chest deep in the water.  As the conversation came to a close, one woman said to the other "You done yet?".  The other replied "Yep", then they both stood up to reveal they were actually only in waist deep water, pulled their bottoms up, and waded back to shore.  I'd hate to be a camera person on Survivor.

[marys1000]

EW.  I'd have a problem with this.   Has anyone on Survivor been an Eagle Scout?  Eagle Scouts would build a latrine. 

Edited March 7, 2015 by marys1000

[NutMeg]

First thing in my mind when Nina opted out of the challenge was I tought she wanted to swim! 

[ratgirlagogo]

 

That would have been awesome!  But I wouldn't be surprised if Nina doesn't know sign language.   She's only been deaf for seven years, so I'm going to assume she didn't learn.  Her speech is perfect, and she probably does ok with the cochlear implants in a calmer environment.  I posted on her thread how she probably doesn't fit in with the deaf community, and not knowing sign language would definitely make her an outcast.

I agree that she probably does even more than OK with the cochlear implant in her everyday life.  "Outcast" is a little strong, I would argue - but I would be more than surprised if Nina knew anything more than fairly rudimentary sign, as is true for the great majority of legally deaf people (who lose their hearing later in life and thus did not acquire sign language as their first human language).  Same as the way people who lose their sight later in life (i.e., the great majority of legally blind people) don't know more than rudimentary Braille.  

 

If they ever DID do an all-disabled Survivor I'm afraid the narcissists and sociopaths would have much too clear an advantage over everyone else

[Miss Scarlet]

Wudpixie, what does she do that is so "weird/quirky/alternative" IYO?  She just seems like a regular twentysomething woman to me.

I think she tries really hard to put on the laid-back/alternative girl persona like when she gave that confessional where she basically said Nina harshed her mellow after skinny dipping and in the first episode where she was way too into the idea of being a No Collar. Or when she tries too hard to be quirky like when she first met Vince and told him she felt like a kindred spirit because she used to have feathers or something or when she put on a British accent and was like "do you need me to blow on your wood sir?" I feel like she is probably laid-back and funny, but she goes over the top with it because it's really important to her that other people see her as chill and free-spirited or whatever. It doesn't always feel authentic. There definitely are other 20 something women that are like her, where being weird/quirky is "their thing". She's not unusual in that way.

 

I mentioned in my last post that I thought Joe was a little dismissive of Nina in his confessional, but l do understand it and I feel like the only reason he was like is because his fate is in his tribe's hands at this point. I don't think he would be like about Nina in a post-merge situation or in real life. 

 

And I do think it's unfair that he and Hali are getting grouped in as "cool kids" that should be disliked or rooted against. They're just seen that way because there's this obvious age division in the tribe and it's creating artificial labels. They remind me a bit of Ian Rosenberger, who was part of a kind of misfit alliance on Koror and was thought of as a cute, lovable nerdy kid. But if he was on the No Collar tribe and aligned with the younger players, people might have labelled him as one of the cool kids. So like almost everything on Survivor, it's really situational.

 

Like I said about Jenn, if this group was all young contestants, I don't know that these 3 would necessarily be viewed in the same way. I feel like if they were on a tribe with a bunch of the typical pageant/mactor types that Survivor likes to cast, these 3 would be too "alternative" and "granola" for the more mainstream types and maybe then they would be thought of as the outsiders. Or maybe I'm wrong and these 3 No Collars would be seen as the in-group compared to the Jenna's and Heidi's of the game because they'd be considered likable and popular outside just their own clique, whereas players like Jenna/Heidi were only liked within their group and disliked outside of it.

 

Also, the editing for the last episode was really bad in the first half. I knew before the challenge that No Collar was going to lose because there were the only tribe shown where any strategy was actually discussed. The editing for the vote was good though. Once they got to tribal I was thinking about who it could have been and I realized that there was a possibility that it could have been any of them except for Hali. That's more exciting than when it's pretty obvious who it's going to be.

[candall]

Didn't anyone learn anything from Boston Rob?  (I know:  blerg)  On his 74th season, he walked around to every single person and buttered them like biscuits.  He made each person feel good about him/herself and they lifted him onto their shoulders and carried him straight to the win.

 

So you need to stop yakking about being excluded or how your tribemates are slackers or whether you're receiving insufficient tribute for your awesomeness.  Compliments, not criticism.  Geeeeez.

 

*************

 

Sidenote:  It was highly amusing that White Collar had trouble even after they got their flint.  If you're really clueless about starting a fire, a little rectangle of mineral won't be self-explanatory.  LOL

[BigRedCheese]

 

I think she tries really hard to put on the laid-back/alternative girl persona

 

I think that's true of just about all of them, they're all working overtime to represent the concept of their tribes. I think they have been encouraged to do this, I think you're probably noticing it more  with her because she's gotten a lot of screen time, but they're all doing it. 

[ProfCrash]

Didn't anyone learn anything from Boston Rob?  (I know:  blerg)  On his 74th season, he walked around to every single person and buttered them like biscuits.  He made each person feel good about him/herself and they lifted him onto their shoulders and carried him straight to the win.

 

So you need to stop yakking about being excluded or how your tribemates are slackers or whether you're receiving insufficient tribute for your awesomeness.  Compliments, not criticism.  Geeeeez.

 

*************

 

Sidenote:  It was highly amusing that White Collar had trouble even after they got their flint.  If you're really clueless about starting a fire, a little rectangle of mineral won't be self-explanatory.  LOL

It did take Boston Rob four seasons to figure that out and make it work. It helped that Rob ended up on a tribe filled with folks who seemed willing to be lead to the slaughter. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he had landed on the tribe that Russell was on. That tribe seemed to have no problem with booting a returnee and I get the impression that they would have been harder to butter up and control.

 

I think people come out with the idea that they are going to relax and try and hold back but that almost always seems to blow up. You are who you are and the conditions that you are living in are going to cut to the core of who you are and how you respond to hardship pretty fast. Which is why I never really buy the argument that people are fully playing a character. I think that we are seeing an important part of who these folks are and how they deal with life because I think it would be insanely hard to play a character for 39 days, or even 3 days, when dehydrated, starving and stressed about what to do to win the big prize. I can see people exaggerating an element of themselves (Philip and Coach) but I don't think any of it is really an act.

 

So Rob's game evolved as he as a person evolved. His life experiences allowed him to morph his game and his previous game experiences allowed him to be more comfortable with playing a specific way. Russell's game has not evolved partly because he does not seem to have evolved as a person and partly because he played too close to his past seasons for him to really adjust his game play. Coach is someone who seems to have changed a bit as a person and been able to bring that to the game. Colton tried to be someone different on his second appearance but failed miserably. Tyson is someone who has grown as a person and that allowed his game play to morph. But Rob, Coach, and Tyson still had an element of their personality that ran through all of their appearances even as their game play changed.

 

So, yeah Mike needs to chill out but he is who he is and he has not been in this situation before so he is struggling with how he responds to it.

[Zahdii]

Let's not forget that TPTB brought Boston Rob back 4 times and then gave him a tribe that was mostly filled with weak minded admirers so he could finally win.

 

Yeah, he played nice to their faces, but he tossed one guy because he was worried that the guy was getting too close to one of the other players, in a romantic sense.  He tossed another guy because he dared to shake hands with opposing players after a win.

 

I don't feel like Boston Rob is anyone to look up to.  It took too many tries and a hand-picked tribe to get to the win.  I'll save my admiration for the people who won on the first try.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Zahdii

[truthaboutluv]

Yeah, he played nice to their faces, but he tossed one guy because he was worried that the guy was getting too close to one of the other players, in a romantic sense.  He tossed another guy because he dared to shake hands with opposing players after a win.

 

 

That was the same guy - Matt. He used the handshake excuse to get his tribemates to agree to vote Matt out but his real reason was the potential romance between Matt and Andrea. Considering the All-Stars run Rob had with Amber, I don't think it was poor gameplay or unreasonable on his part to immediately break up a potential romantic pairing. But this is off topic and frankly Rob is one of the players people will never agree on. Some think he's an amazing player, others don't. Fair enough...

Edited March 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[Apocalypso]

Re:  naked on bottom but not on top

I thought she removed her bottom because the worst bug bites were right around the waistband.  It must have been a big relief not to have them rubbing against covering material.  I am instantly aware when the tiniest pimple can rub against my jeans.

 

Re:  a place to poop

 

Got to have something to dig with if you're going to make a latrine the whole tribe can use.  Do they have other tools besides machete?

 

I will miss Vince, who was interesting and entertaining and not (IMO) an incubating stalker, though certainly not without issues.

[NutMeg]

I don't feel like Boston Rob is anyone to look up to.  It took too many tries and a hand-picked tribe to get to the win.

 

[sorry if this is off topic and I promise to drop it after this post]

 

The thing I find interesting about Boston Rob is that he adjusts his game play to the situation/people he's playing with and/or against. A lot of the returnees don't do that (Rupert is one that springs to mind). Others try to but are lacklustre (see JT). One other who was successful once keep doing the same thing with the same success (Sandra). But very few are clever or self-aware enough to change their gameplay when they come back. Without giving it a long thought, I'd say that, apart from Boston Rob, I see Parvati in that category, as well as Tyson and even Coach (who could have dominated his season if he had owned his moves at FTC). 

[himela]

I know I'm late but I just finished this episode and I got to say I'm nor really surprised with the outcome. I mean, everyone is intimidated when they meet a person whose behavior is not ordinary. Vince was this person and people didn't like it. It was really obvious how this tribe would end up splitting in two with the young people on one side and the outcasts/older people on the other side. I fact I find this annoying cause the older people are always either the odd people out or the neutral people who fly under the radar until they get kicked out. I'd honestly like to watch a season of only people between 25 and 30, then it would be really about personalities, chemistry and characters while now it seems to be only an age thing. Poor Nina, she was doomed to stay in the outs not only cause of her age but cause of her disabbility as well. I understand that this game has to include everyone regardless of age, gender and/or race, but lets face it, older people are really doomed more often than not.
 

Regarding Vince, I still have not seen anything dangerous or crazy about him, and now I never will. What I think about him is he really wanted to create relaionships in the game the way he does in the outside world. Him being a free spirit it seems he likes to have a feeling when meeting a person, he likes to feel close to them by hugging them or looking them deeply in the eyes. I know this may sound strange in our society, but there are people like this. In fact I consider people of the 70s being like this, hugging everyone, feeling close to everyone, having intimate conversations, create deep relationships etc. Vince did not realize that this was just a game and not real life. He thought he could make Jenn come close to his heart but Jenn, just like Hali and Joe, are just everyday young people, shallow and superficial. The way the girls behaved towards Nina shows me how bad they were raised from their homes. In my books, making fun of someone due to a disabbility they can't control shows bad upbringing and it's disturbing to see these people winning in a game. I mean, what example do young people take from this? That it's OK to mock older and/or handicapped people? From now on Joe, Hali and Jenn are in my black list and I want them out asap.

 

I really wish the episode would have been longer so we could see more of the rest tribes' personalities. Even with only one challenge (immunity + reward combined) we still didn't have the time to truly meet the rest of the players which is sad. I would like to see for example how Joaquin reacted after So being sent home, how the relationships in both tribes are, how come Shirin (who seemed kind of conservative) and Max (same!) ended up walking around naked. Is there a romantic connection between them? Why was Mike so frustrated with him tribe not doing enough things around camp? I feel everything in this episode stayed on the surface of things without explanations. I don't get why this happens. Can't the production create longer episodes? More time, more money, isn't it?

[ProfCrash]

That was the same guy - Matt. He used the handshake excuse to get his tribemates to agree to vote Matt out but his real reason was the potential romance between Matt and Andrea. Considering the All-Stars run Rob had with Amber, I don't think it was poor gameplay or unreasonable on his part to immediately break up a potential romantic pairing. But this is off topic and frankly Rob is one of the players people will never agree on. Some think he's an amazing player, others don't. Fair enough...

I like Rob fine, I just don't think he is a Survivor genius. It took him four tries to win Survivor. Heck, it took him six tries to win a reality TV show. Sandra has won Survivor twice, she is a genius. She won with newbs and returnees. Rob lost with newbies and returnees and won on a season where he was one of two returnees. Sorry, but I find it hard to be overly impressed that someone who had appeared on Survivor three times, Amazing Race twice, and his own reality show finally won when he was playing with all newbies and the worlds most offensive Survivor player.

 

His game changed each season, which was great. I think that is partly because he grew as a person and he learned from his loses. So when he won it was a master class but I am not sure that someone playing the first time would be able to replicate what Rob did because they do not have his experience. Suggesting someone play like Yul, or Kim, or Earl or any other winner is not going to be helpful because most of those people had pretty unique paths that would be hard to replicate.

 

Suggesting that Mike, or any newbie, learn from Rob is a bit silly. I actually think that suggesting that people learn from a winner is a bit silly. Winners have a formula that works for a specific season, based on what the weather, food, and players were like. Those variables change each season. A new player is more likely to learn from the typical traits of the people who are voted out early. Mike should know from the past hard chargers who harped on helping around camp that yelling at people for being lazy, ie not working as hard as he does, is annoying and going to piss people off. He needs to chill.

 

Vince should have learned that people who are in your face about being in control tend to get booted out quickly. The ones who are less annoying or totally over the top annoying might be taken as goats. Every one of Vince's exit interviews states that he wanted to be in power and control. That matches up with how he behaved toward Jenn and Joe. Vince even says that the second episode was an accurate portrayal of his game, so in your face, lack of personal space, and struggling for power. Yeah, that does not win you Survivor and tends to get you voted out.

 

Nina needed to learn from other older players how to get along with the younger people on the tribe. Nina does have an additional challenge which makes that hard for her but I am pretty certain she could have learned something about how not to interact with your tribe mates from past contestants.

[truthaboutluv]

And that's all well and good but as I said, I don't think it has any bearing on this episode or even this season. I also never said anything about liking him personally - my point was specifically about him as as a player and as noted, some think he was amazing, others don't. Fair enough...

[Miss Scarlet]

 

It was really obvious how this tribe would end up splitting in two with the young people on one side and the outcasts/older people on the other side. I fact I find this annoying cause the older people are always either the odd people out or the neutral people who fly under the radar until they get kicked out. I'd honestly like to watch a season of only people between 25 and 30, then it would be really about personalities, chemistry and characters while now it seems to be only an age thing.

Yeah, it's really unfair to the older contestants to not expect some sort of division based on age when there's usually only one token older person and then several younger people. It would be more fair if there were a few more older contestants too (or like you said, have everyone in the same age range). The only recent season I can think of where there were more than a few token older contestants was Blood vs Water. And that's because it was a returnee season.

 

If they are going to keep casting 1 or 2 token older people, casting really strong, athletic older women might help because it seems to work when they cast older men like that, since they usually aren't targeted because of their age. Keith wasn't targeted last season because by the time his tribe went to tribal council Drew had imploded, but also because he was good at the challenges. Same with Troyzan in One World, even though he was about 50. Although I'm probably just being optimistic and even casting different types of older women still wouldn't change the biases they face in this game.

Edited March 10, 2015 by wudpixie

[himela]

Someone mentioned about this show loving "characters" so much and I can't agree more. I would love to watch a season that will only have people who are not television interesting, entertaining or whatever else. I want to watch a season with smart young people who are there only to play the game of survivor using their mind and only that. I don't want to watch wannabes models, smart asses, entertainers, presenters, fame whores etc. Just 18 people who are there to compete for the title of Survivor and of course the money. Would it be a boring season? Maybe. But I'd feel that the purpose of Survivor game has been completed, which is to use your social and strategical skills only to stay in the game.

[needschocolate]

I'd honestly like to watch a season of only people between 25 and 30, then it would be really about personalities, chemistry and characters while now it seems to be only an age thing. 

 

Now that you mention it - I would like to see a season of only people between 40 and 50 -- young enough to make challenges interesting, but old enough that they might not be so immature (better socialization skills, less mean girl, etc...). Of course, that might lessen the "eye candy" so they would probably never do it.  

[KimberStormer]

I understand the frustration but I just don't think it's true anymore that 'older' people are instantly voted off through no fault of their own.  Missy, Keith, Tony, Trish, Kass, Dawn, Sherri, Denise, Lisa, Skupin, all "older" by Survivor standards, all went very deep in the last few seasons (not to mention Tina, Monica, Gervase, etc from BvW).  This season the first out was not "old" Carolyn but "young" So, and Vince was not voted out because of age but because of his bad vibes and Nina's poor play with Will.  I feel like One World was the last one where the older people were targeted specifically by the young, and that only on the women's tribe.

As usual I feel like the contestants are a bit ahead of the producers and public perception.  I remember reading an article in TV Guide or something, when the very first season was starting, where some people gave their predictions.  Of course the men will vote out all the women first, said one, except Colleen who they will keep around as eye candy/a sex toy, and then get rid of older men like Richard and Rudy...what's terrible is I took this cynical but completely wrong "wisdom" as being what the show was going to be like, and didn't start watching until the last couple episodes.

[SlackerInc]

Really good points, but would you really assert that females over 50 are not at a disadvantage?

[pennben]

 

The way the girls behaved towards Nina shows me how bad they were raised from their homes. In my books, making fun of someone due to a disabbility they can't control shows bad upbringing and it's disturbing to see these people winning in a game.

 

I saw Hali and Jenn trying to get along with Nina and then perhaps (mostly Jenn) being insensitive to her, especially after Nina's outburst.  There was absolutely no evidence shown of them making fun of someone with a disability.

Edited March 10, 2015 by pennben

[KimberStormer]

Really good points, but would you really assert that females over 50 are not at a disadvantage?

 

Certainly they are at some disadvantage, but I was more responding to the idea that they shouldn't even bother going on because it's hopeless, Survivor should only cast young people, etc.  I think the disadvantage is much less than people make it out to be when they talk this way.

Edited March 11, 2015 by KimberStormer