S05.E16: Amster-Damn

[jinjer]

 

Kim definitely said "we've all talked about it". I think that's a lie. Maybe she spoke about it with Brandi, but no, they didn't all talk about Lisar's marriage.

I am changing my mind.  I previously posted that it might be an open secret about Harry cheating around Hollywood because all the women seemed to know immediately what Kim was hinting at, including Lisa R.  But maybe Lisa R. did tell them something or maybe the women were blabbing about it on the trip or on the plane or earlier in the season.  Kim seems invisible sometimes, and I think the women may have loose lips around her sometimes.  She seems harmless until she's not. One of the reasons she was so good as a child actress purportedly was because of her great ability to memorize her lines.  I could see her soaking up and remembering things.  (Of course not how many days she was in the hospital or what day of the week it was! lol.).  

[quinn]

Lisa Rinna's flip out totally reminded me of Real Housewives of New Jersey and the Gorga switch.  I know that others were reminded of NJ as well, but to me the comparable Gorga switch flip that I thought of was the season 2 reunion rather than the table flip.  The thing that's weirding me out is that it seemed like Lisa was immediately transported to another zone - she started ranting about Kim touching and going near her husband.  Some of those lines were on the season 5 trailer and I thought that there was going to be some past scene where Harry and Kim flirted or Kim threatened to do something involving Harry, but nothing like that actually happened.

Edited March 3, 2015 by quinn

[zoeysmom]

What I hate about this "outing" of marriage woes (in general) is that infidelity doesn't always mean the end of a relationship or marriage.  People can want to work it out and to have something private like that thrown in their faces and thrown to the media, is sick.  Another angle is that not all couples are strictly monogamous, so the "cheating" might not be something hidden from the spouse or is something indicative of a problem in the relationship.  I hate gossip-mongers and I hate spiteful drunks.  I don't care if HH cheated because it's not my marriage and I'm not privy to the rest of their relationship, so why should I be privy to that specific detail. 

 

 

Ugh, I can tell I'm gonna get worked up allllll over again tonight.  I need to do some pushups or something and down some Gatorade.  It's going to be a long night.  lol

 

 

Missyb -- What's funny is that Brandi can't move on from talking about how these women can't move on.  They're all the damn same.  lol 

Maybe HH cheated with Scheana the SUR waitress and sworn enemy of Brandi. Lisar and HH didn't go to PUMP and the after event this weekend for Ryan Murphy's gala and Scheana was featured prominently in the photos.  (See Lisav thread for photos, see home wrecker and whore for Scheana.)  I am totally making this up but I find it to be just as plausible as HH being a closeted transgender or gay.  No casual acquaintance has ever gotten a thank you for publicly outing a spouse's cheating.  Perhaps Kim is referencing something from the HH and Lisar reality show and finds them to be less than perfect.  I think  my money is on Kim bringing up Harry and substance abuse-I would like to think she wouldn't go so low as to barf up a rumor about infidelity unless Lisar was the one who was unfaithful. 

 

Kyle flight response, totally get it once things get physical.  Kim had created so many bad feelings with her words and Kyle had given her the indefensible line-which seemed to serve only to wind Kim up even more.  She was the one that was wailed on by her sister who was 5 years older.

[cooksdelight]

Did I miss something? Did this air already?

[Wings]

 

Just my opinion, but if I had to deal with someone that was high or drunk and acting like an asshole to me and everyone else, I would sure as hell tell her it's not OK.

 

 

Ever try to tell a drunk their behavior is not okay?!  hahahahahahaha!  Seriously, it does not work to talk to anyone high on anything and get a response that you would like!  I have been there!   It is really best to ignore the behavior as best you can or walk away and talk to them when sober.  

Did I miss something? Did this air already?

 

 

No this was all on First Look.  

[cooksdelight]

Oh, so there's a thread for that, right? But it's locked.... so I'd think you shouldn't bring First Look here....right?

[sistermagpie]

Ever try to tell a drunk their behavior is not okay?!  hahahahahahaha!  Seriously, it does not work to talk to anyone high on anything and get a response that you would like!  I have been there!   It is really best to ignore the behavior as best you can or walk away and talk to them when sober.

 

 

Sadly, I think this *was* a case of them talking to her sober!

[zoeysmom]

Did I miss something? Did this air already?

Only the first third of it.  The 11 minute First Look and 2 minute aftershock. 

[cooksdelight]

Only the first third of it.  The 11 minute First Look and 2 minute aftershock.

This isn't a First Look recap thread.

[SwordQueen]

Maybe HH cheated with Scheana the SUR waitress and sworn enemy of Brandi. Lisar and HH didn't go to PUMP and the after event this weekend for Ryan Murphy's gala and Scheana was featured prominently in the photos.  (See Lisav thread for photos, see home wrecker and whore for Scheana.)  I am totally making this up but I find it to be just as plausible as HH being a closeted transgender or gay.  No casual acquaintance has ever gotten a thank you for publicly outing a spouse's cheating.  Perhaps Kim is referencing something from the HH and Lisar reality show and finds them to be less than perfect.  I think  my money is on Kim bringing up Harry and substance abuse-I would like to think she wouldn't go so low as to barf up a rumor about infidelity unless Lisar was the one who was unfaithful. 

 

Kyle flight response, totally get it once things get physical.  Kim had created so many bad feelings with her words and Kyle had given her the indefensible line-which seemed to serve only to wind Kim up even more.  She was the one that was wailed on by her sister who was 5 years older.

 

Kim must be high to think that anybody will take her side in her outing private information about HH or anyone else's husband, even if it is "Hollywood public" already.  Cheating, illness, more info on his substance abuse problem, whatever -- I doubt anyone's going to be cheering Kim on.  Even if you don't like Lisa or Kyle, Kim is doing this out of 100% spite, just like Brandi with her comments to Kyle about Mauricio.  Unlike Kim's raging addiction problem, Lisa's and Kyle's marriages do not affect the other HW.  There is no comparison and I really hope neither Kim or Brandi bother in trying to make one. 

 

IMO, it doesn't matter if Kim is sober or not -- she doesn't care about how she treats others.  I guess I bristle at the idea that no one should say anything to Kim, while she might be high or drunk.  Firstly, because when doesn't she seem wasted, and secondly, they are stuck in a room with her or a in a car.  Is everyone supposed to get up and walk away or open the car door and jump out, just to avoid confronting her?  That's giving Kim way, way too much power.  Now I also don't like the HW giving Kim all the power by playing in to her bullshit and becoming visibly upset by her tantrums, so there must be a middle ground somewhere. I think Eileen is standing as close to it as one can get on this show. 

 

I do like Lisa R telling her that she can't treat people that way.  Falls on drunk ears, but it's good for people to keep making that statement to her face.  Now if Lisa had just left it at that, it'd be all good, but Kim then took it to a whole 'nother level and I know I'd have trouble, myself, not reaching across that table and smacking the fake tan right off of her.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Kim is the kind of person whose utter lack of conscience just drives others to acts of insanity, which is why she needs to be off of this show and left to drink/drug herself into oblivion, since that's what she says she wants.  Everyone else is just wasting their time on her, including myself.  lol 

 

The 4th wall in this situation is getting in the way of how the other women might react to her otherwise.  I'll bet we'd have seen a lot less fighting and a lot more ignoring and not inviting, if they weren't contracted to socialize with her.  I feel like this aspect of the "reality" show is as artificial as it can get.

[BlackMamba]

IMO Brandi stayed silent because the second she spoke would have given Lisa or Kyle an opening to get Brandi involved in explaining their concerns to Kim. Brandi knew the only way to not be exposed to Kim was to stay away from the conversation. Brandi always has lots to say, unless she knows she's culpable and they can drag her into the discussion.

That's why being the type person I am would had asked her why she was so quiet. She did that crap last season in Puerto Rico. She started the drama and everyone at the table was fighting on her account. Brandi tries to go undetected but after what happened last season no one viewer is fooled by it.

Eileen was on her high horse about the poker party. So Kim "ruined" it. What do you really care? It was a stupid staged party by production. Your real friends were not there. Much ado about nothing.

Point is, Kim did ruin the party when she passively aggressively told Brandi what had happened and Brandi felt the need to "protect" Kim away from Kyle. Kim brought her high as kite self over to Eileen's home and caused a scene (several times at the poker table, before leaving when in the kitchen to Kyle and of course the driveway). She could had at least apologized but Kim is too good for that type of thing. Hell, she can't even accept one without confrontation.

Well, I think Kim gets all her "information" from Brandi. Just like Brandi claimed that Lisa was feeding her things to say , Brandi is now doing the same with Kim. She seems to be filling Kims head with all sorts of thoughts about how terrible Kyle is.

Brandi does have a point, these women to not know how to drop something.

Brandi shouldn't be saying these women don't know how to drop anything especially since she's one of the women who actually had the convo with Lisa R on Kim, but that was to deflect off her bad behavior. Not to mention, she's been talking about Kim behind her back and expressing how she really feels in her talking heads or to her good buddy Jennifer. She plays it up for the cameras too she's not above the drama for a minute.

And I do agree, Kim doesn't strike me as someone who "investigates" or "digs up" people's personal lives for gain. That's more of Brandi's territory. Brandi probably has read the HH autobiography or like someone said did her own personal background check on Lisa R and fed Kim the goods.

Edited March 3, 2015 by BlackMamba

[jjbjjbh]

 

Avaleigh:  

Eileen wasn't on a high horse at all

Eileen is ALWAYS on a high horse IMO. She gives off  an "air of superiority" vibe, looking down at the rest of the wives, except her friends. She has no problem accepting the reported $750,000  from bravo, and then has this " above it all" attitude that just annoys me. You joined a housewives show, Eileen. You should have watched at least some of the previous seasons' episodes to know what you were getting into. But once you sign in, don't expect to be above the fray. At least Lisa Rinna is generally sweet and well-intentioned, warm and tries to be "one with the group". Eileen, not so much. 

 

 

Avaleigh:

To then know that there are going to be future interactions with this person because of a signed contract, I can again understand the concerns that the other women have about Kim since they're forced to interact with her even when she's under the influence.

All the more reason for Lisar to not go poking the sleeping snake. JUST ignore  Kim. We all have co-workers  that are unpleasant to deal with in some form or shape. If Your contract requires you to work with someone unpleasant, come to work, keep interactions with them to a minimum, hi, hello, isn't the weather beautiful, etc. go home. Don't, for goodness, sake, keep hammering them with questions about their personal life, ESPECIALLY when you have been asked NOT TO  SEVERAL TIMES in no uncertain words. That's what any rational person would do. Lisar is at fault for constantly inserting herself into Kim's storyline, and her sole reason for doing so is to stay  relevant in the show, hoping she will be asked back. Lisar, there are FIVE other housewives for you to engage with. Leave Kim alone. 

 

Avaleigh: 

whatever twisted and sordid truth Kim wants to pull out of her ass regarding Harry Hamlin.

NOONE knows what Kim was referring to re HH. All theories are speculations as of now. So first of all whether it was  truth, leave alone twisted/sordid has yet to be established. Secondly, the way and speed at which Lisar snapped and lost control was very telling. Her reaction seems to indicate she had some inkling what Kim was implying and was afraid for it to get out. IMO  No one reacts that way to a fool calling a bluff. If Kim was making stuff up about HH, the normal reaction would be to laugh it off, play it down, make a joke about it. If nothing else, Lisar's postal response gave more credence to Kim's words, true or not. If she had just brushed it off, I would be less likely to believe Kim. The way Kyle seemed so uncomfortable, added to the fact Lisa lunged for Kim, trying to grab her neck, then the smashing of the glass, none of these things look good for Lisar. In addition, Lisar kept warning Kim "not to touch her husband/don't you go near him". Wonder what that was all about? 

Edited March 3, 2015 by jjbjjbh

[Lola16]

Don't touch my husband might mean don't talk about him - not don't get physical with him.

 

Kim's behavior in that scene is inexcusable.  As is Lisa R's.  When Brandi comes off the best in a scene, you know you need a time out.

[WireWrap]

In Kim's defense, the topic of her sobriety has been brought up incessantly.  On camera in a restaurant is not the place.  I believed she flipped because it is so constant and she said many times during the episode, "drop it."  She was being badgered.  She reached her breaking point.  It is not innocent of Rinna to bring up her own stories about addiction without implication that Kim was a target for this "personal" disclosure.  pffffft  Talk about anything else.  Anything.  

 

Kyle mentioned on Access Hollywood that she has no tolerance for conflict thus ran out the door.  On the plane she hid her face in her coat.  She says she panics and has to get out.   That said, we have seen her stay in the fray so this could be questionable!  

 

The best way to deal with Kim, when she is on something, is to NOT bring it up!  Let it play out.  When she sees herself on TV acting like an idiot it will do far more good.  If she is so bad and cannot be ignored, stop the gathering and leave.  They have enough cameras to follow all of you!  

 

Eileen was on her high horse about the poker party.  So Kim "ruined" it.  What do you really care?  It was a stupid staged party by production.  Your real friends were not there.  Much ado about nothing.  

 

ETA:  Rinna has told her personal brushes with addiction too many times.  They all know about it already.  Stop it.  

 

BUT what is going on with Harry!?  This I want to know!!

They have tried to "ignore" Kim's drug abuse on the show for years now and the only time Kim ever sought help was when it was brought to the foreground by Brandi, season 2. After season 2 was done filming and right before the reunion was filmed, Kim went into rehab, so confronting her on camera has helped before where ignoring her has only allowed her to keep using. Who knows, maybe the producers realized this and finally said they would no longer cover up/edit out when Kim gets high and the rest of the cast is in on it, including Brandi as she has talked about Kim using again far more than anyone else including Lisa R. It was Yolanda that got that dinner discussion started yet Kim never questions why Yolanda did that. As soon as she, Yolanda gets her first 2 sentences out, Kim starts the "death stare" at/toward Lisa R like Lisa started the conversation or preplanned it with Yolanda before they got there. I will look to see if Kim questions Yolanda about the dinner conversation she started when they are outside talking. I want to see if Kim questions Yolanda's motives.

 

 I believe that Kyle went into fight or flight mode and chose to flee.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Lisin
Removed off topic discussion

[BlackMamba]

Don't touch my husband might mean don't talk about him - not don't get physical with him.

Kim's behavior in that scene is inexcusable. As is Lisa R's. When Brandi comes off the best in a scene, you know you need a time out.

Thats what Brandi's intentions were meant to create drama. The women before and during the reunion have watched Brandi's antics play out. She will be called out for being slick, manipulative, and cunning. But they didnt know that at the time Brandi might have been doing something until now. Kim though cant escape she made a complete and utter fool of herself though.

[janie2002]

I think Brandi was really quiet , not to be the mature one, but because she is the one that set this in motion. She went and told Yolanda, LisaR and Kyle that Kim needed help. She asked LisaR for an intervention, she was a snake once again and I think she knew if she said anything Lisa would snap and say Your friend is the one that asked us to help you!

 

As soon as it was over, Brandi was already backing up Kim and talking about how crazy LisaR was, so she isn't mature or calm she is just trying to be bobby fischer, but I'm sure it was ruined once Kim saw the episodes and that is why she isn't friend anymore.

 

Also Kim is a vile human, and I don't normally forgive violence but LisaR just opened up about her sister and Kim spat in her face. A gracious person could have easily said I'm sorry for your loss Lisa and I cant imagine the pain, I'm sorry you had to relive that in the limo with me.  But now she is SOBER and works hard the last 3 years. I mean honestly we've seen an effed up Kim every season... for what 5 years/seasons? If she is this messed up when cameras are rolling can you imagine how she must be off camera.

[SoCal4Us]

I believe most of the HWs were given a heads up (whether from a handler/another HW/whomever) on the "group intervention" - as soon as Yolanda began the discussion, did any of us not see that the plan was for Kim to also open up?  As far as Lisar's apology, although she didn't specifically say "addiction" to Kim, it seemed to me (especially considering the dramatic way Lisar told Eileen and Lisa about the airplane conversation) that Kim's addiction is exactly what she was referring to.

 

I guess Bravo should be thanking their lucky stars that Kim took the pill that "didn't agree with her" on Poker Night.  They sure have gotten a lot of mileage from it.

[Avaleigh]

Jjbjjbh, I'm bringing my comments to Eileen's thread.

[psychoticstate]

I don't find Eileen on a high horse whatsoever.  I knew who she was prior to this stint but I wouldn't have called myself a fan.  I will now because she has been nothing but gracious and classy from what we've seen.  She's calm and rational (shocking, I know!) without resorting to childish and immature tactics.

 

Kim is just an asshole, plain and simple, who resorts to typical addict behavior when confronted. She denies and deflects. 

 

The biggest "tell" for me as far as who is telling the truth, in the right, etc. is that not one person defended Kim at the table.  YoFo made a halfhearted comment about how hard she'd worked on her sobriety but not one other person said she was in the right or she was believed to be 3 years sober.  Not even her so-called bestie Brandi.  Because everyone there knows, including Brandi, that Kim has not been sober for 3 years.  Listen to the silence.  Look at how Kyle looks away when Kim makes these claims.

 

I don't support Lisa R's throwing the glass but I fully understand it.  Kim was attacking like a trapped animal and she was attacking Lisa's family.  That wasn't done to Kim and it certainly could have been.  Chad is Kim's child but he's also an adult.  Yet no one has dragged him into this mess.  Whatever his issues, it doesn't necessarily have to do with his mother's addiction(s) (as far as we know.)  Lisa R's reaction to addiction has nothing to do with whatever may or may not be going on in her marriage.  Kim was out of line and all she did was invite daylight in to her own issues because as YoFo said, no one's life is perfect. 

[copacabana]

Ugh, call me naive, but I really don't want to think about HH cheating. I love him and I really like the two of them together. Seems like they've made a nice life for themselves and their daughters. Harry's been doing some of his best work in recent years too -- Shameless, Mad Men, and I'm forgetting what else. If he is, I don't need to know about it. 

 

Me too, me too!  He certainly doesn't need any of this at this point.  Any association with this show is just not good for an actor looking to reestablish.  Eileen can get away with it because she's secure in the profession and, if she wanted to retire, could so with her head held high.  The matter of outing people's infidelities is a childish and provincial-tacky move.  I don't think that adultery in and of itself would hurt his casting chances -- It's the association with the guilt and the mud and dumb of these shows that wouldn't be good for him.  He appears to have known this because he's not a stupid person -- not at all from what I've seen. The very last thing he wants is to have his name linked to this franchise in anything other than the most tangential way.

 

All this just shows what poor impulse control Kim has --  When things get uncomfortable for her -- and they've been treating her with kid gloves still -- she immediately lashes out in ways that are disproportionate to the event.  And, yeah, I know one's mileage etc ... But, really, this is a trait she shares with Brandi -- The inability to recognize that in trying to shame and humiliate other people in this way, she ends up hurting herself even more.  Who is ever going to hire this woman on a real set in a real acting job?  This is is company town she's operating in -- Bravo will be the extent of her time on screen for the rest of her days.  I gather this is okay with her. 

 

She obviously feels no loyalty towards ANYONE.  Except Kingsley, who seems to represent some powerful and destructive aspect of her personality. 

I don't find Eileen on a high horse whatsoever.  I knew who she was prior to this stint but I wouldn't have called myself a fan.  I will now because she has been nothing but gracious and classy from what we've seen.  She's calm and rational (shocking, I know!) without resorting to childish and immature tactics.

 

Kim is just an asshole, plain and simple, who resorts to typical addict behavior when confronted. She denies and deflects. 

 

The biggest "tell" for me as far as who is telling the truth, in the right, etc. is that not one person defended Kim at the table.  YoFo made a halfhearted comment about how hard she'd worked on her sobriety but not one other person said she was in the right or she was believed to be 3 years sober.  Not even her so-called bestie Brandi.  Because everyone there knows, including Brandi, that Kim has not been sober for 3 years.  Listen to the silence.  Look at how Kyle looks away when Kim makes these claims.

 

I don't support Lisa R's throwing the glass but I fully understand it.  Kim was attacking like a trapped animal and she was attacking Lisa's family.  That wasn't done to Kim and it certainly could have been.  Chad is Kim's child but he's also an adult.  Yet no one has dragged him into this mess.  Whatever his issues, it doesn't necessarily have to do with his mother's addiction(s) (as far as we know.)  Lisa R's reaction to addiction has nothing to do with whatever may or may not be going on in her marriage.  Kim was out of line and all she did was invite daylight in to her own issues because as YoFo said, no one's life is perfect. 

 

All of the above ... The silence was deafening at that table.  

[BlackMamba]

I think Brandi was really quiet , not to be the mature one, but because she is the one that set this in motion. She went and told Yolanda, LisaR and Kyle that Kim needed help. She asked LisaR for an intervention, she was a snake once again and I think she knew if she said anything Lisa would snap and say Your friend is the one that asked us to help you!

 

 

 

Brandi during the chaos,

[motorcitymom65]

I think Brandi was really quiet , not to be the mature one, but because she is the one that set this in motion. She went and told Yolanda, LisaR and Kyle that Kim needed help. She asked LisaR for an intervention, she was a snake once again and I think she knew if she said anything Lisa would snap and say Your friend is the one that asked us to help you!

 

As soon as it was over, Brandi was already backing up Kim and talking about how crazy LisaR was, so she isn't mature or calm she is just trying to be bobby fischer, but I'm sure it was ruined once Kim saw the episodes and that is why she isn't friend anymore.

 

Also Kim is a vile human, and I don't normally forgive violence but LisaR just opened up about her sister and Kim spat in her face. A gracious person could have easily said I'm sorry for your loss Lisa and I cant imagine the pain, I'm sorry you had to relive that in the limo with me.  But now she is SOBER and works hard the last 3 years. I mean honestly we've seen an effed up Kim every season... for what 5 years/seasons? If she is this messed up when cameras are rolling can you imagine how she must be off camera.

Yes, as BlackMamba excellently articulated, this is what she did in PR last year. She got Kyle all wound up about some supposed magazines in a suitcase, when the fact of the matter was, Brandi didn't give two shits about Kyle or wanting to alert her to Lisa's true nature. She was pissed at Lisa for distancing herself from a gal who cannot properly tuck in her tampon string, while at the same time getting closer to Scheana.  She had her own reasons for being mad at Lisa, and watching her get closer to Kyle was adding fuel to her fire.  So she decides to put a stop to the budding friendship and try to hurt both Kyle and Lisa all at the same time. She sets it all in motion; she has Kyle crying on the beach, Mauricio walking away pissed, and she just goes to dinner and sits quietly at the end of the table and watches the drama unfold. This is exactly what she is doing in Amsterdam. She tells Kim half-truths about the talk that is going around about Kim, makes her think that Kyle pretty much hates her, then just sits back to watch everyone react to the trauma. 

[BlackMamba]

It was Yolanda that got that dinner discussion started yet Kim never questions why Yolanda did that. As soon as she, Yolanda gets her first 2 sentences out, Kim starts the "death stare" at/toward Lisa R like Lisa started the conversation or preplanned it with Yolanda before they got there. I will look to see if Kim questions Yolanda about the dinner conversation she started when they are outside talking. I want to see if Kim questions Yolanda's motives.

With Kim not being sober (or at least going through angry drug withdrawal IMO) her primarily target was Lisa R. A sober, alert and quick minded person would had got what Yo was doing in that very moment, but not Kim. Remember if you watch the EOnline/Bravo clip Kim believes it was 4 (or did she say 5 people who attacked her first and ignoring she caused most of the havoc.

 

Yes, as BlackMamba excellently articulated, this is what she did in PR last year. She got Kyle all wound up about some supposed magazines in a suitcase, when the fact of the matter was, Brandi didn't give two shits about Kyle or wanting to alert her to Lisa's true nature. She was pissed at Lisa for distancing herself from a gal who cannot properly tuck in her tampon string, while at the same time getting closer to Scheana. She had her own reasons for being mad at Lisa, and watching her get closer to Kyle was adding fuel to her fire. So she decides to put a stop to the budding friendship and try to hurt both Kyle and Lisa all at the same time. She sets it all in motion; she has Kyle crying on the beach, Mauricio walking away pissed, and she just goes to dinner and sits quietly at the end of the table..

Dont forget Kim was also instigating and playing mind games too on the beach before the dinner to Mauricio! "They say they are your friends but are they?" Something to that effect! Hence, dinner "I'm tired of your goddamn mouth (to Ken)." Then Ken later asked Lisa, "What the hell is wrong with Kim? Is she drinking again?"

See I get why Brandi/Kim are great buddies. Not only love their substances but they like to manipulate and stir shit up.

Edited March 3, 2015 by BlackMamba

[SwordQueen]

And the thing is that, at the table, while Lisa was apologizing, Kim didn't have to say anything about herself if she didn't want to.  No one was backing Kim into a corner.  At the very least, all Kim had to do was to, well, not do anything.  She could have just sat there.  She could have nodded her head in Lisa's direction to acknowledge that she had heard her but wasn't going to reply any further.  Kim and only Kim decided to bring up her sobriety.  Yes, it was the "unspoken" part of the conversation, but Kim gave voice to it.  For as much as people say that Lisa didn't have to turn towards Kim and apologize, Kim didn't have to respond. 

 

Just like with Poker Night, Kim created and escalated the drama by going back into the house and snarking at Kyle.  The evening would have been done, over with on Kim's part, otherwise.  Kim and only Kim decided to bring up her sobriety.  And another recent time was at the airport when Kyle had misplaced her luggage and they were running behind schedule.  What did Kim do?  She brought up her own past transgressions with being late and threw them in Kyle's face.  Kim and only Kim decided to bring up her sobriety. 

 

Brandi is an instigator, definitely.   But there is a pattern here and it all begins and ends with Kim.

Edited March 3, 2015 by SwordQueen

[IKnowRight]

Lisa had just smashed the glass and a few seconds before reached for Kim's throat, so personally I'm would not ruling  out that Kyle was shocked and scared and hightailed it out of there out of fright. I have a different recollection...full response in Taylor's thread:http://forums.previously.tv/topic/9130-taylor-armstrong-she-may-go-oklahoma-on-your-ass/#entry885847

hi Quinn,

Yes, there was more to the story, I agree.

My point in referencing this story was just to say that I wonder if there are other missing pieces that we are not privy too. I just was wondering out loud if there is some type of dislike for Eileen that we are not aware of...Brandi likely thinks she is the arbiter of justice when it comes to the second wives or trophy wives of cheating husbands. I'm searching for what's driving the animosity toward Eileen from Kim. Is there some friendship or connection to someone that dislikes Eileen just like Taylor was saying to Linda Thompson that she was on guard with Yo because of Linda's ex-husband now being with Yo.

[Umbelina]

It was so obviously an intervention, Kim ( or even a blind woman) could have spotted that.  Bullshit on the "apologies" they were once again making KIM their storyline.  Kim tried in every way possible to get them to stop talking about her struggles with addiction.   Nothing about doing that AGAIN, on camera, in a public place was intended to help Kim.  You really care?  You really want to help?  Do it privately. 

 

So she turned the tables and made the lead instigator, Lipsa, the subject of the conversation.  Apparently Lipsa is hiding a secret about her home life, and Lipsa is all about getting "secrets" out.  I hope that it's just that Harry is bi, or gay, or a cheater, and not that he has cancer or AIDS. 

 

Lipsa was the one out of control, and violent.  Shockingly so.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Umbelina

[Rhetorica]

Well, I've read all your posts and thoughts. Now for mine regarding The Restaurant Rumble. I'm so glad Kim is finally being called out on her unacceptable behavior, even if she won't accept her horrid actions. It, at least, is cathartic for her castmates. However, Lisa R's actions were also unacceptable. When is it ever suitable for someone to throw something at another or a group? I've been an inner city kid, a trailer park teen, a suburban mom, and now an uptown woman and have never seen such behavior. Not because I'm blessed. Because I have never allowed myself to be in escalating situations. I remove myself. Not in flight, like Kyle, but we'll before it comes to that point. Besides, my hair has never been as long and the effect would be lost. JMHO. 

I think I've posted this before. Forgive if I have.

[motorcitymom65]

It was so obviously an intervention, Kim ( or even a blind woman) could have spotted that.  Bullshit on the "apologies" they were once again making KIM their storyline.  Kim tried in every way possible to get them to stop talking about her struggles with addiction.   Nothing about doing that AGAIN, on camera, in a public place was intended to help Kim.  You really care?  You really want to help?  Do it privately. 

 

So she turned the tables and made the lead instigator, Lipsa, the subject of the conversation.  Apparently Lipsa is hiding a secret about her home life, and Lipsa is all about getting "secrets" out.  I hope that it's just that Harry is bi, or gay, or a cheater, and not that he has cancer or AIDS. 

 

Lipsa was the one out of control, and violent.  Shockingly so.

What secret is Lisar trying to get out about Kim? That she is an addict? That she had a slip-up with a pill? So far the only thing I have heard Lisar talk about with Kim is her sobriety, which Kim has kept front and center on our TV's for the entire length this series has run. Now, if Lisar decided to start talking about Chad, that would be a different story. 

 

Kim is the one who brought up her sobriety with Lisar on the plane. On camera. If she is so anxious to not address it on camera, then why didn't she do as Kyle recommended and take care of it privately? This is the thing, if Kim is going to put it in our faces when she wants, she loses control of all the other times it is going to get brought up. 

[SwordQueen]

Kim's sobriety is absolutely a part of their storyline that they have every right to discuss, imo.   When Kim gets in vehicles with other people and steps inside other's people's homes high as a kite and then precedes to verbally assault them, yes, that becomes the storyline of every person in attendance.  Most of these women are also longtime friends off the show, so this "storyline" doesn't end when the cameras stop rolling. 

 

If a good friend of mine's sister was a vicious addict who relapsed right in front of my eyes, I'd not only be concerned for her, but for my friend as well and would try to do *something*... I have no idea what.  But if I had to continue to be around said vicious addict, I know for myself, I would find it very hard to just ignore it all, especially when the behavior keeps on coming.  It's not just that she relapsed.  It's not just about her sobriety.  It's that she's also a horrible, abusive person to be around.  She isn't just trying to keep to herself, here.  She's creating a hostile environment with her attitude and verbal outbursts.  I wouldn't be silent about that.  If I couldn't get through to her by saying "Are you okay, I'm concerned.", I'd certainly try by saying "Don't bring your bullshit around me, now STFU or get out". 

 

The secret Kim doesn't want coming out is not that she's an addict -- it's that she's a nasty person, sober.  Blame the drugs, Kim.  Blame the other women, Kim.  Blame the turtles, Kim.  No one's buying it.  It's you.   

 

 

 

ahh, I tried to edit this but it didn't take.  I wonder how this will shake out for Yo since she initiated the entire conversation of substance abuse.  If it was production-driven I wonder how much.  Are they allowed to tell the women what to do and say or just suggest things and make it easier for them to.  Maybe Bravo wanted this out on camera to relieve themselves of liability? 

Edited March 3, 2015 by SwordQueen

[Avaleigh]

It was so obviously an intervention, Kim ( or even a blind woman) could have spotted that.  Bullshit on the "apologies" they were once again making KIM their storyline.  Kim tried in every way possible to get them to stop talking about her struggles with addiction.   Nothing about doing that AGAIN, on camera, in a public place was intended to help Kim.  You really care?  You really want to help?  Do it privately. 

Why does Kim think that the circumstances are different when she wants to have an intervention for a housewife on camera? If LisaR and Eileen were viewers of the show prior to joining then they'd know that Kim is actually okay with talking about another cast members substance issues on camera.

 

So she turned the tables and made the lead instigator, Lipsa, the subject of the conversation.  Apparently Lipsa is hiding a secret about her home life, and Lipsa is all about getting "secrets" out.  I hope that it's just that Harry is bi, or gay, or a cheater, and not that he has cancer or AIDS.

 

 

Wow, Kim can really pat herself on the back if people are speculating that he's a cheater or has some horrible disease.

 

Lisa was the one out of control, and violent.  Shockingly so.

 

 

Kim was out of control as well. Shockingly so. I felt like she slapped Kyle with full force with that comment about how Kathy is a real sister to her. That was some hateful crap she was spewing. Kim was practically foaming at the mouth when she asked Kyle "What the fuck was that?!" as she mocked her behavior on the plane. When Kim told Eileen to shut her fucking mouth--that shit was just beyond the pale.

[ryebread]

I'm searching for what's driving the animosity toward Eileen from Kim.

I think Kyle told Kim what Eileen was saying at LisaV's party.  Maybe Eileen even said more than what we saw and Kyle revealed it all.

But I agree that there's more to this than we're seeing. But that's always the case. Sigh.

[Trooper York]

Wow! Just wow!

 

To throw out there speculation that the secret that Kim is talking about is that Harry Hamlin has cancer or Aids? That is just wrong. Really, really wrong. 

[Avaleigh]

Wow! Just wow!

 

To throw out there speculation that the secret that Kim is talking about is that Harry Hamlin has cancer or Aids? That is just wrong. Really, really wrong. 

 Mind. Blown.

[motorcitymom65]

Wow! Just wow!

 

To throw out there speculation that the secret that Kim is talking about is that Harry Hamlin has cancer or Aids? That is just wrong. Really, really wrong.

Yes. This. Especially since Kim seemed to throw it out with such glee. Even I don't believe Kim is hateful enough to be happy and excited to potentially out such an issue. I could always be wrong, however.

[ryebread]

Wow! Just wow!

 

To throw out there speculation that the secret that Kim is talking about is that Harry Hamlin has cancer or Aids? That is just wrong. Really, really wrong. 

 

I don't think there's a single one of us on these boards that would be okay with that.   No matter what.

[Umbelina]

Yes, as I said, if it's health, that would be very low of Kim, and disgusting.  Certainly nothing above a Richard sisters' line though.

 

Sexuality, addictions, money, health are the obvious options though.  I think sexuality is on the table if it's something like Lipsa being his beard, or if they are swappers together, or the sexuality thing also involves Lipsa. 

 

Whatever it is, it will come out.  Eventually.  Probably in a blind item, more than one of the housewives blurting it out on the show though.  If Lipsa and Harry have a secret, then Harry was right the first time, she shouldn't have gone on this show.  Everything comes out, sooner or later.  Lipsa won't always be the darling, and bloggers can be as relentless and cruel as fellow housewives that get even.  I don't think it's booze, because Lipsa already admitted that issue.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Umbelina

[chlban]

I don't find Eileen on a high horse whatsoever.  I knew who she was prior to this stint but I wouldn't have called myself a fan.  I will now because she has been nothing but gracious and classy from what we've seen.  She's calm and rational (shocking, I know!) without resorting to childish and immature tactics.

 

Kim is just an asshole, plain and simple, who resorts to typical addict behavior when confronted. She denies and deflects. 

 

The biggest "tell" for me as far as who is telling the truth, in the right, etc. is that not one person defended Kim at the table.  YoFo made a halfhearted comment about how hard she'd worked on her sobriety but not one other person said she was in the right or she was believed to be 3 years sober.  Not even her so-called bestie Brandi.  Because everyone there knows, including Brandi, that Kim has not been sober for 3 years.  Listen to the silence.  Look at how Kyle looks away when Kim makes these claims.

 

I don't support Lisa R's throwing the glass but I fully understand it.  Kim was attacking like a trapped animal and she was attacking Lisa's family.  That wasn't done to Kim and it certainly could have been.  Chad is Kim's child but he's also an adult.  Yet no one has dragged him into this mess.  Whatever his issues, it doesn't necessarily have to do with his mother's addiction(s) (as far as we know.)  Lisa R's reaction to addiction has nothing to do with whatever may or may not be going on in her marriage.  Kim was out of line and all she did was invite daylight in to her own issues because as YoFo said, no one's life is perfect. 

This. All of it. I was not only not a fan of Eileen's I had to google her to see who she was and I still didn't "recognize" her so I certainly didn't have any real preconceived notions about her, but I don't think she is on a high horse either. I think she has an innate class and is very poised. I don't see those as bad traits. Unusual in a Housewives show, but certainly not bad.

 

I also like Lisa R. I won't get on my own high horse about her losing it, because I'm pretty sure if I had to spend as much time as she has with those two vile, evil  bitches, Brandi and Kim, I would probably end up in jail. So, from my viewpoint, the glass throwing was showing some pretty good restraint. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by chlban

[Wings]

It was so obviously an intervention, Kim ( or even a blind woman) could have spotted that.  Bullshit on the "apologies" they were once again making KIM their storyline.  Kim tried in every way possible to get them to stop talking about her struggles with addiction.   Nothing about doing that AGAIN, on camera, in a public place was intended to help Kim.  You really care?  You really want to help?  Do it privately. 

 

So she turned the tables and made the lead instigator, Lipsa, the subject of the conversation.  Apparently Lipsa is hiding a secret about her home life, and Lipsa is all about getting "secrets" out.  I hope that it's just that Harry is bi, or gay, or a cheater, and not that he has cancer or AIDS. 

 

Lipsa was the one out of control, and violent.  Shockingly so.

 

 

I agree 100%.  Thundering applause!  Standing ovation.  I have been saying the same thing!  Leave Kim alone, it is her business, not yours Rinna.  You get into her business and become irate when she goes after yours?  What did you expect? 

[psychoticstate]

It was so obviously an intervention, Kim ( or even a blind woman) could have spotted that.  Bullshit on the "apologies" they were once again making KIM their storyline.  Kim tried in every way possible to get them to stop talking about her struggles with addiction.   Nothing about doing that AGAIN, on camera, in a public place was intended to help Kim.  You really care?  You really want to help?  Do it privately. 

 

So she turned the tables and made the lead instigator, Lipsa, the subject of the conversation.  Apparently Lipsa is hiding a secret about her home life, and Lipsa is all about getting "secrets" out.  I hope that it's just that Harry is bi, or gay, or a cheater, and not that he has cancer or AIDS. 

 

Lipsa was the one out of control, and violent.  Shockingly so.

 

KIM was the one who decided to join a reality show and air her life.  She was also the one who showed her drunken and/or addicted ass on television and has continued to come back each season.  That's on her. 

 

I do think that Lisa R had sincere motives in speaking to Kim.  At the dinner in question, Lisa didn't bring up Kim's issues.  She spoke of her own family's (and hers, by extension) after YoFo started the conversational ball rolling.  She offered an apology to Kim, explaining why she may have come across strong or intrusive.  It was KIM that decided to snap at her and then attack Lisa and her family verbally. 

 

It's been said here by others but I have to agree - - if Kim wanted to shut down the addiction/sobriety talk she could have done so with a calm "Thank you for your concern but I'm fine and have everything under control.  Let's change the subject, please."  She did not.  What she did instead was to lash out, defend and deflect which, as I've said, are classic addict behaviors.  She's done nothing to show that she's anywhere near sobriety (or maturity.) 

 

I don't think anyone speaking at that table had any ill intent.  It was Kim's impression that it was all done in ill will.  And apparently she's angry with Eileen because she doesn't like her hair or her face and she gets into Kim's "bizwax." 

 

I'm sorry but I just cannot defend Kim on any level.  She was not being attacked in any way.  She could have shut the conversation down or, at the least, just gotten up and left the table if she felt that threatened. 

 

Bottom line, Kim's an addict.  And she's a soul sucking, needy, immature, irresponsible, manipulative asshole.

I agree 100%.  Thundering applause!  Standing ovation.  I have been saying the same thing!  Leave Kim alone, it is her business, not yours Rinna.  You get into her business and become irate when she goes after yours?  What did you expect? 

 

Here is the difference though.  Kim put her sobriety storyline on the table for the season.  Lisa did not put Harry, or any of his alleged issues, on the table.

 

I also believe that Lisa was coming from a place of good intentions.  Kim was clearly coming from a place where she wanted to hurt and be destructive.

[BlackMamba]

Wow! Just wow!

To throw out there speculation that the secret that Kim is talking about is that Harry Hamlin has cancer or Aids? That is just wrong. Really, really wrong.

If thats the secret she best hide under a rock for her remaining years. Even if HH has something like that would not be her damn place to tell. It would be tragic and a new low for reality tv not just housewives. I hope it's just something out his book and nothing like that. Or a stupid cheating rumor. Edited March 3, 2015 by BlackMamba

[Wings]

 

Kim is the one who brought up her sobriety with Lisar on the plane.

 

No, Rinna did.  She looked over at Kim and asked, "are you okay?"  And that was NOT an innocent question.  She was really saying have you taken anything.  

 

Kim said, "drop it, no more talking about my sobriety"  Rinna did not stop and off Kim went.  

[Lola16]

Thats what Brandi's intentions were meant to create drama. The women before and during the reunion have watched Brandi's antics play out. She will be called out for being slick, manipulative, and cunning. But they didnt know that at the time Brandi might have been doing something until now. Kim though cant escape she made a complete and utter fool of herself though.

Brandi has been doing that since S1.  Perhaps Kim didn't think Brandi would do it to her?  Kyle should have known.  But it was convenient to believe Brandi when Kyle had an axe to grind against Lisa V.

 

 

Here is the difference though.  Kim put her sobriety storyline on the table for the season.  Lisa did not put Harry, or any of his alleged issues, on the table.

 

I also believe that Lisa was coming from a place of good intentions.  Kim was clearly coming from a place where she wanted to hurt and be destructive.

Kim wants to control the 'sobriety' storyline.  Problem is, she cannot control the storyline anymore than she can control her sobriety at this point.

 

HWs put their entire lives on the table according to Andy Cohen.  That's what he said when Ramona tried to duck all the Mario is cheating rumors on RHoNY.  Lisa R by showcasing her marriage (and she has) on the show has opened up discussion.   Now should Kim be trashing her?  No.

 

I don't believe Lisa R had any more good intentions than Yolanda or Lisa V. 

[Trooper York]

What is really interesting is that even Kim's greatest fans would think she is capable of doing something like revealing personal medical details about someone's husband. It seems that you can not put anything past her. That is very telling.

She is fast becoming a really vile and despicable villain. Worse than Tampon Sally.

 

Maybe she can pick up some work on "Once Upon A Time"......she would fit right in:

 

[MatildaMoody]

No, Rinna did.  She looked over at Kim and asked, "are you okay?"  And that was NOT an innocent question.  She was really saying have you taken anything.  

 

Kim said, "drop it, no more talking about my sobriety"  Rinna did not stop and off Kim went.  

No, she was really saying "why are you giving me the silent treatment while staring daggers at me ?" That isn't her asking if she had taken anything. 

[BlackMamba]

Brandi has been doing that since S1.  Perhaps Kim didn't think Brandi would do it to her?  Kyle should have known.  But it was convenient to believe Brandi when Kyle had an axe to grind against Lisa V.

 

 

But wasn't it LVP who was coined Brandi as her "truth cannon" back in season 3.  That Brandi would never lie to her until she got bite in the ass.  Kyle even told LVP not to trust Brandi but she didn't listen herself.  I've already explained why Kyle might have taken Brandi under her wing HERE. I personally wouldn't have trusted Brandi once she flipped on Adrienne at the reunion to go after LVP.  Her loyalty is trash!  Kim will learn sure enough.

[LotusFlower]

Wow! Just wow!

 

To throw out there speculation that the secret that Kim is talking about is that Harry Hamlin has cancer or Aids? That is just wrong. Really, really wrong.

Trooper - Were you talking about Kim, or posters speculating? Cuz I thought the latter.

I suppose in the end, it doesn't really matter, cuz it all starts with Kim. That's what passive-aggressive, shit-stirring behavior is all about.

I still think there's a possibility that there's no secret - that Kim just resorted to her normal mode of deflection. I know LisaR's anger seems to belie this theory, but look at her face when Kim first throws it out there. She looks nonplussed and bewildered as to what Kim was talking about.

[SnarkKitty]

 I am still amused (and I sure Kyle was mortified) at Kyle running the 40 yard dash in an impressive 4.5 seconds complete with the flowing hair.

 

Lisa had just smashed the glass and a few seconds before reached for Kim's throat, so personally I'm would not ruling  out that Kyle was shocked and scared and hightailed it out of there out of fright.

Maybe she was running to, not from - once the glass was smashed she flew out that door so it might have been to get additional help because shit was hitting the fan due to Kim.

 

 

IMO Brandi stayed silent because the second she spoke would have given Lisa or Kyle an opening to get Brandi involved in explaining their concerns to Kim. Brandi knew the only way to not be exposed to Kim was to stay away from the conversation. Brandi always has lots to say, unless she knows she's culpable and they can drag her into the discussion.

 

Exactly. Brandi knew opening her mouth would remind people she was mixed in this ish.  Also, if there was ever a doubt she was "brainwashing" Kim, doubt no longer. It was freaking erie to hear Kim parrot what Brandi was peddling nearly word for word "Kathy wouldn't do this to me. Kathy's a real sister." (I'm of course paraphrasing).

[motorcitymom65]

I still think there's a possibility that there's no secret - that Kim just resorted to her normal mode of deflection. I know LisaR's anger seems to belie this theory, but look at her face when Kim first throws it out there. She looks nonplussed and bewildered as to what Kim was talking about.

I tend to agree with you.  Lisar has watched this show for a long time. She has apparently considered coming on the show for a long time. Does anyone remember something that happened after S3 with regard to some big power Agents on the West Coast warning their clients about joining the show? Camille and Adrienne were blamed for getting this whole thing going, but the story went that these Agents were warning clients to stay away because of the surrogacy reveal and some of the nasty comments that had been made which were designed to harm another ho'wives business.  Since most people join this show to help them in some manner, the theory went that specifically when Brandi joined that the tone had turned ugly with regard to pretty much nothing being off limits.  Andy denied it, but there were rumors that several high-profile folks that they wanted for S4 backed out, and thus they went with Joyce and Carlton. My point in this long story is that Lisar has been around and been rumored to be thinking about this forever. She has said HH was initially resistant.  I just don't think she would have joined were there the chance that something very harmful could be revealed, especially with Brandi still around. I am embarrassed to actually be speculating on anything as private as his sexuality, but since it has already been brought to the table, the reality is that something like this could still harm his career.  Sad but very true. I just don't think that Lisar would have gone there if there was a looming secret like that to be found. My guess is that there are rumors that he has been unfaithful, and that is what Kim was talking about.  

 

And because it cannot be said enough, Kim is a total and complete bitch. 

Edited March 3, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[BlackMamba]

What is really interesting is that even Kim's greatest fans would think she is capable of doing something like revealing personal medical details about someone's husband. It seems that you can not put anything past her. That is very telling.

She is fast becoming a really vile and despicable villain. Worse than Tampon Sally.

If shes legitimately is trying to go for broke on this quest then she will win greatest villian of all time.

[Avaleigh]

MCM, were there any rumors about which ladies ended up not signing on for season 4 because of that alleged situation? Was LisaR one of the names rumored? Denise?