S05.E18: Divorce

[RazzleberryPie]

I agree that I don't think the issue is truly where the kids will go if something happened to Robyn, but they want to rewrite history, that they've been together from the beginning... Even Robyns little quote at the opening is something about how they should have been together from the beginning. They have been presenting the children as Brown's for years now.

In Robyns twitter q&a she claimed that it was the kids who want to be Browns, and that they were asking for a new dad from the time she got divorced... Something about that does not sit well with me and sets up a really unhealthy dynamic for those kids... But im not sure exactly what it is... Maybe it's more what it implies, but I just can't imagine, short of severe abuse to the children themselves that they would actively want a new dad, and I feel like if the kids were THAT severely abused where that is in fact the case Robyn would have played that card a long time ago and we would not be speculating about it.

Notice Robyn in her talking heads. According to FBI profilers, people who are telling the truth when recalling a story typically look to right and to the side. People who are lying or creating a new story look up and to the left. Also, 'real' emotional crying tens to come more from the right eye, while fake forced crying comes from the left. Physical pain comes from both, but continues more on the right.

 

So....that said, I absolutely do not believe that right after the divorce, her kids asked when they were going to get a new dad, simply because their dad was not in their home, but still in their life. If she really was being truthful in saying she doesn't discuss adult issues, including her divorce, with her kids, they have no reason to think they no longer have a dad and need a new one. Kids who have a dad die don't even say 'when do we get a new dad.' They might ask if their mom or dad will get married again, or if they have to call a new person mom or dad, but it's not normal for kids who have a dad in their life to ask when they'll get a new one, without a whole lot of encouraging and prompting.

 

Unless, of course, Robyn was bringing in lots of 'new daddies' and they were asking when they were going to get a new one. I don't actually think she was bringing in 'daddies' or 'uncles' BTW. I think she is a lying, manipulative, delusional, grifting, vindictive bitch, but I don't think she is or was promiscuous. 

 

Of course, I'm also certain Sol was her 'anchor baby', she has no intention of another one unless forced, and that except for Kody wanting to collect a bunch of kids and her to allow him to be the White Knight Rescuer, she'd send her other three back to Montana and out of sight, out of mind, in a heart beat. With a lot of scrunched up, tearless crying and wistful woe is me, fighting a war, of course.

[3girlsforus]

A thousand times yes to Razzleberry and leighroda!! The whole thing bothers me so much too. I really feel for those kids. And her claim that they've been begging to replace their father since the divorce is also directly contradicted by her statement a few years ago that she was afraid they would choose to live with their father. By the time she made that statement they were already being told Kody is 'Dad'. So if their true hearts desire was a new father, they got that. Why would she be afraid they would choose to live with their biological father? 

 

They may very well want to live with the Browns now. But it's really hard to know if that's because that's what they want, if that's what Robyn has convinced them that they want, or if that's what they will say they want because they know Robyn would blow a gasket if they said anything else. But even if they want to live with the Browns, that doesn't mean they want to legally remove their father from their lives permanently. 

[SometimesBites]

 

But yeah - unless their dad is unable to take them for whatever reason, he still has joint legal custody.

Scuttlebutt has it that Robyn has sole physical AND legal custody. You're right though...Jessop would still be the first line of custody should Robyn kick the bucket. One thing I know for sure: I would HATE to be David Jessop.

[purpleflowers]

You all are so right! The whole thing just rubs me the wrong way as well. With Robyn saying on twitter that her kids all remember what it was like living with their biological father, that just felt strange because her youngest was only 3 or 4 or so when she divorced. I'm not saying kids can't remember traumatic events in their childhood, but that statement of hers makes it seem more like she has been reminding them of what he's like all this time. 

 

I read a quote of Robyn's from a while back in which she said she left her marriage because of abuse and she does not tolerate bullying at all towards her kids (I think it was in reference to the other Brown kids not being nice to her kids). I don't know if she said this on the show or in an article but I feel like that's a pretty bold statement to make given she's still comfortable with Jessop having visitation. Perhaps it was verbal abuse? With the limited information, I don't feel right taking a side in this situation because it could go either way as far as who is the worse character in this situation. I will say though, that it doesn't feel right. 

[Kellyee]

 

I read a quote of Robyn's from a while back in which she said she left her marriage because of abuse and she does not tolerate bullying at all towards her kids (I think it was in reference to the other Brown kids not being nice to her kids). I don't know if she said this on the show or in an article but I feel like that's a pretty bold statement to make given she's still comfortable with Jessop having visitation. Perhaps it was verbal abuse? With the limited information, I don't feel right taking a side in this situation because it could go either way as far as who is the worse character in this situation. I will say though, that it doesn't feel right.

 

If I remember correctly, the "bullying" came about because the other kids said Robyn's two daughters were whiny and immature. They basically came in like stepchildren, but Robyn tried to act like it was a regular intact family and not a blended one. It still doesn't seem like they've bonded much with their "siblings", beyond the other kids being nice to Dayton about getting back on the 4 wheeler. There's a definite indifference there between the kids which mirrors how the wives treat each other. I wonder if part of her wanting to be the legal wife has to do with the painfully obvious truth that she never fully bonded into the Brown family. I think she's desperate to belong, and this may be her way of doing it. Maddie's annoyed and indifferent look when Robyn was asking questions about her changing religions said it all.

 

I think the divorce is the same as the "escape" to Las Vegas. A lot of hyped up drama, with maybe a very small kernel of truth in there somewhere. Jessop may have been a crappy husband. And Utah did investigate the Browns. But neither event was so bad that it warrants the level of hysteria and dramatic decisions the Brown adults keep making.

[islandgal140]

Anyone familiar with that slang turn of phrase 'the difficult brown?' I first read it on one of my fave sites dlisted. Anyone, it is taken from a Sinead O'Connor quote:

 

 

"Let me now take time to make VERY clear that yes I 'do anal' and in fact I would be deeply unhappy if 'doing anal' wasn't on the menu, amongst everything else. So if u don't like 'the difficult brown'.. Don't apply..."

 

This is how I see this whole wife swap fiasco and what the Browns have been trying to do to the viewers. Difficult Browns indeed! 

 

Add to this the clue that Robyn and Kody were together when Meri called them, and she assumed they were together. Now it may all have been scripted, but they looked like a couple who was typically together throughout the Divorce show. It showed in their body language. 

Another clue is that when poor little Truly was deathly ill, no one could find father of the year Kody. After a lot of calling and calling his cellphone to no avail, they finally decided to come to their senses and called Robyn. I don't know if he was at Robyn's house or he just didn't want to answer anyone's call but Robyn's but she was the one that finally produced that great human shaggy dog. 

 

I don't think their primary concern is what happens if Robyn dies. And it's not about the well-being of the kids. They want to erase Jessop from existence and pretend the kids were born from Kody. I have very little doubt that if Jessop signed legal papers saying that if Robyn dies he would continue with custody as is... in other words they could live with the Browns and their step siblings but he would continue to have his visitation etc just as he does now, that wouldn't be what they want. They want him not to exist. 

 

 If Robyn had ended up with a man that did not want the kids, would she have Flowers in the Attic them?

[RazzleberryPie]

If I remember correctly, the "bullying" came about because the other kids said Robyn's two daughters were whiny and immature. They basically came in like stepchildren, but Robyn tried to act like it was a regular intact family and not a blended one. It still doesn't seem like they've bonded much with their "siblings", beyond the other kids being nice to Dayton about getting back on the 4 wheeler. There's a definite indifference there between the kids which mirrors how the wives treat each other. I wonder if part of her wanting to be the legal wife has to do with the painfully obvious truth that she never fully bonded into the Brown family. I think she's desperate to belong, and this may be her way of doing it. Maddie's annoyed and indifferent look when Robyn was asking questions about her changing religions said it all.

My gut reaction on that one, is the older Brown teens totally knew that the whole situation with Robyn joining was sneaky and manipulative, and weren't necessarily cruel, but not welcoming of Robyn and her kids. Maddie, who seems extremely mature, grounded and realistic, flat out said they were annoying or something like that. The younger kids knew something was up that made their moms upset, but from a child's perspective, it there are these three new kids in their family, in the middle of everything, calling their dad "daddy" and stealing the few minutes of attention they previously got, plus the older boy was standoffish and the two girls were loud drama queens. It would be stranger if there wasn't any conflict and blending happened immediately.

 

Robyn isn't helping any bonding situation, either, by separating her kids from Christine and Janelle's by bringing in her sister and then cousin or whoever to babysit (while she does who knows what - oh wait, runs around with Kody whining about how mean everyone is to her). I really believe Janelle isn't mean, but doesn't make an effort to be involved in anything Robyn related, but Christine says she fully expected to help with each other's kids, and Robyn refused.

 

Robyn - and Kody, and Meri to an extent - process 'not getting their way' as 'everyone is openly defying me, and I will NOT tolerate it.' Kody pontificates, Meri pulls puppet strings and Robyn turns herself into an innocent martyr that needs Kody to rescue. I'm surprised there wasn't more hair pulling and ugliness, because that's what siblings often do.

[Snarklepuss]

Exactly.  They even said on the show that the next step was looking into the father giving up custody.  Robyn said she had to call the Montana lawyer.  She should have begun there.  For all they knew when that was filmed or at least from what they said, this could all do them no good whatsoever.  Robyn even admitted that.  If they want to do something this potentially full of difficulties they really should have been talking to a family law specialist from the beginning.  A decent one would have called someone in Montana and gotten the full legal scoop for them.  I can't wait to talk to the friend who actually is a family law specialist about this one.  

 

They probably should have consulted a good lawyer first - I finally got to bringing this up with Mr. Snarklepuss (a divorce and family lawyer) and he said any judge or CPS (Child Protective Services) official from pretty much any state would most likely not get past the polygamy aspect of Kodouche's living arrangement.  He says it would be extremely hard to sell the angle that this family arrangement is good for the kids given that he has like 3 other separate families going at once, whether he is married to any of them or not.  Divorcing Meri and marrying Robyn would make no difference from their POV.  In his words "they're dreaming" if they think it would.  The natural father giving up his rights would not make the difference they think it would either.  Also, to make matters worse, they have a REALITY TV SHOW based on this living arrangement, which he says would likely be just as frowned upon by all the above as the fact that Kodouche has completely separate families by 4 different women going at once.

 

Again, I could see them being stupid enough to believe that what they're doing would work if they hadn't already been in touch with a lawyer, which they have (Meri's divorce lawyer), so I still think the primary motivation is TV ratings.  If they even talked to that lawyer casually about their intentions while Meri was going through with her divorce, they would have been set straight.  But they don't care about that because it's all being done for ratings.

[3girlsforus]

They probably should have consulted a good lawyer first - I finally got to bringing this up with Mr. Snarklepuss (a divorce and family lawyer) and he said any judge or CPS (Child Protective Services) official from pretty much any state would most likely not get past the polygamy aspect of Kodouche's living arrangement.  He says it would be extremely hard to sell the angle that this family arrangement is good for the kids given that he has like 3 other separate families going at once, whether he is married to any of them or not.  Divorcing Meri and marrying Robyn would make no difference from their POV.  In his words "they're dreaming" if they think it would.  The natural father giving up his rights would not make the difference they think it would either.  Also, to make matters worse, they have a REALITY TV SHOW based on this living arrangement, which he says would likely be just as frowned upon by all the above as the fact that Kodouche has completely separate families by 4 different women going at once.

 

Again, I could see them being stupid enough to believe that what they're doing would work if they hadn't already been in touch with a lawyer, which they have (Meri's divorce lawyer), so I still think the primary motivation is TV ratings.  If they even talked to that lawyer casually about their intentions while Meri was going through with her divorce, they would have been set straight.  But they don't care about that because it's all being done for ratings.

 

Ok - wait. So you are saying that if Jessop signed away his rights and said he doesn't want to ever see his kids again that the court would still most likely decline to allow Kody to adopt the kids because of the polygamy? Wow - I didn't realize the court could/would reject an adoption that the sole parent of the children was in favor of. Interesting. If Jessop gives up his rights would the court allow Robyn to declare Kody the legal guardian in the event of her death or would the polygamy thing cause problems there too? That is definitely something they should have found out before uprooting the marriages. Maybe they did and assume the law doesn't apply to the 'marvelous Browns'. I was going to say that they are screw two ways with this adoption (relinquishing rights and the court) but they probably see it as a two way win. They get to use the adoption as a justification to swap wives and when the adoptions craps out they have two ways to blame someone else. Either Jessop is a selfish ass because he won't relinquish his rights or the courts are persecuting them because they are polygamists. It's a win-win. 

[leighroda]

Funny how they like to thumb their nose at the govt and the whole married to more than one person thing, and get all bent out of shape about that persecution... But they are doing everything in their power to make the law on their side in this case... Granted they are doing it all wrong apparently... But still.

[Galloway Cave]

 

Ok - wait. So you are saying that if Jessop signed away his rights and said he doesn't want to ever see his kids again that the court would still most likely decline to allow Kody to adopt the kids because of the polygamy?

That's what I've been saying all along. They are still in a polygamous marriage, despite Kody and Robyn being legally married now. Kody is still splitting his time between four women, four families and 17 children. He is only in Robyn's home one night out of four. Nothing has changed with that legal marriage except a piece of paper. His finances are still a mess- an income that is from a TV show that could be canceled at any time, a history of bankruptcy in the family and running up credit card debt, spotty employment records and cashing out retirement funds. No way a judge is going to look at all of that and think this is an acceptable situation for adoption.

[kassa]

It still doesn't seem like they've bonded much with their "siblings", beyond the other kids being nice to Dayton about getting back on the 4 wheeler.

 

 

I've had a very different impression.  I've actually been surprised at how many times in the background you see the older kids holding/playing with/sitting with Robyn's kids.  It seems genuine.  Might not have started that way, but I think they do accept them now.  Her?  Who knows.

 

I don't know what to think of David Jessup -- he and Robyn were living monogamously, but that doesn't mean that he still isn't under the thumb of his extended family, none of whom likely want ANY publicity whatsoever.  And if he was raised the real heart of the Jessup clan, giving up your kids to keep the government/outsiders out of family business might be what is expected.  So I don't necessarily think he's a) a deadbeat or b) taking any kind of high road.  Could be he is under considerable restraints not to rock the boat in any way that brings his family scrutiny.  

 

A good father would say screw that, and damn the consequences and go ahead, but who knows what Robyn's got on him?

[RazzleberryPie]

I've had a very different impression.  I've actually been surprised at how many times in the background you see the older kids holding/playing with/sitting with Robyn's kids.  It seems genuine.  Might not have started that way, but I think they do accept them now.  Her?  Who knows.

 

I don't know what to think of David Jessup -- he and Robyn were living monogamously, but that doesn't mean that he still isn't under the thumb of his extended family, none of whom likely want ANY publicity whatsoever.  And if he was raised the real heart of the Jessup clan, giving up your kids to keep the government/outsiders out of family business might be what is expected.  So I don't necessarily think he's a) a deadbeat or b) taking any kind of high road.  Could be he is under considerable restraints not to rock the boat in any way that brings his family scrutiny.  

 

A good father would say screw that, and damn the consequences and go ahead, but who knows what Robyn's got on him?

I wonder what she has on him, or what she'd make up on him, as well. These people will cut off family members (Christine's mom) and also expect new family members to totally blend (Robyn and kids), all within a split second, so who knows how they deal with each other. I do think that although Christine screams paranoia the loudest, Robyn is always very curt and on the defense when meeting anyone who isn't a polygamist. She's scared of something as well. They're all messed up.

 

As for being under the rule of extended family, not sure if that holds water for me, because Robyn's husband is also related by blood/extension to Christine (first cousin), Kody (2nd cousin's kid?) and Meri (two of her dad's wives are David Jessop's first cousins). So they could be totally normal, scary compound polygamists, or somewhere in between like the Browns.

[elainebenis]

They probably should have consulted a good lawyer first - I finally got to bringing this up with Mr. Snarklepuss (a divorce and family lawyer) and he said any judge or CPS (Child Protective Services) official from pretty much any state would most likely not get past the polygamy aspect of Kodouche's living arrangement.  He says it would be extremely hard to sell the angle that this family arrangement is good for the kids given that he has like 3 other separate families going at once, whether he is married to any of them or not.  Divorcing Meri and marrying Robyn would make no difference from their POV.  In his words "they're dreaming" if they think it would.  The natural father giving up his rights would not make the difference they think it would either.  Also, to make matters worse, they have a REALITY TV SHOW based on this living arrangement, which he says would likely be just as frowned upon by all the above as the fact that Kodouche has completely separate families by 4 different women going at once.

 

Again, I could see them being stupid enough to believe that what they're doing would work if they hadn't already been in touch with a lawyer, which they have (Meri's divorce lawyer), so I still think the primary motivation is TV ratings.  If they even talked to that lawyer casually about their intentions while Meri was going through with her divorce, they would have been set straight.  But they don't care about that because it's all being done for ratings.

Exactly. And when they get shot down in court, they'll all rant and rail and weep about being persecuted by the government. Again.

[Snarklepuss]

Ok - wait. So you are saying that if Jessop signed away his rights and said he doesn't want to ever see his kids again that the court would still most likely decline to allow Kody to adopt the kids because of the polygamy? Wow - I didn't realize the court could/would reject an adoption that the sole parent of the children was in favor of. Interesting. If Jessop gives up his rights would the court allow Robyn to declare Kody the legal guardian in the event of her death or would the polygamy thing cause problems there too? That is definitely something they should have found out before uprooting the marriages. Maybe they did and assume the law doesn't apply to the 'marvelous Browns'. I was going to say that they are screw two ways with this adoption (relinquishing rights and the court) but they probably see it as a two way win. They get to use the adoption as a justification to swap wives and when the adoptions craps out they have two ways to blame someone else. Either Jessop is a selfish ass because he won't relinquish his rights or the courts are persecuting them because they are polygamists. It's a win-win. 

 

Yeah I was kind of surprised myself given how relatively open minded adoptions seem to be these days, but then again judges and family welfare people, are likely overwhelmingly monogamous and would think a father who had to split himself between so many households would not be able to provide the kind of parenting they would feel comfortable with - But that's what we have been ranting about all along here on this board and elsewhere for years, so why should the courts think differently?  I think the Brons think the TV show is "proving" to the world how wonderful their families are, and how good for the kids it is, but sorry to say I think it's done them more damage in the eyes of most of the world.  They are clueless about this.  Kodouche thinks he is a wonderful dad, and he might have been if he wasn't running back and forth to so many households all the time.  His time is just too divided - Sorry to say that while love may be multiplied, time has to be divided, and his time is so divided that he can't be an adequate parent to that many kids living in separate households.  He might have actually had a stronger case when they were all living under one roof, but even then, given how monogamous most of the people looking at their case would be, I doubt that would even make much difference.

[Oldernowiser]

If anything, if I were a judge, the fact that Kody dumped his first legal marriage without a second thought and then gave legal status to the wife who has only one of his children while blowing past the baby mamas of twelve of his others speaks volumes regarding his lack of judgment or consideration of their wellbeing.

Why on earth would anyone award him legal parenthood of three more?

[iii]

In the clip of the flashback of mariah hugging Dayton, Mariah is wearing the same clothes as when she talks to Meri and Kody Hahahaha. Wow. Not even trying

[ginger90]

I don't think any of the divorce discussions were actually filmed while happening for the first time. The whole thing was bullshit. And Mariah being so understanding? Ummm no. I have to wonder how the original conversation with Mariah and Meri went, but I think I have a pretty good guess.

Edited March 7, 2015 by ginger90

[jellywager]

Wouldn't it by funny if Robyn's shine wore off for Kody and he starts hanging around the other houses and ignoring hers?

[Zahdii]

Wouldn't it by funny if Robyn's shine wore off for Kody and he starts hanging around the other houses and ignoring hers?

 

It could happen if he realizes how much she's manipulated him, and gets resentful.  Or if he thought that marrying Robyn would get her to open up the Magic Womb for him again, and she keeps putting it off.

 

Meri might appreciate him showing up more.  I've always suspected that one of her bedrooms that she required for the 'children she should have had' was turned into a man cave for Koduche.  Janelle might or might not want him around more.  But poor, pathetic Christine would be so happy it'd probably drive him off again. 

 

If it reached that point, what's a polygamist to do?  Marry Robyn's live in babysitter?  OMG, what if that's her plan?  Get the Title, get the control, and then shove another wife in front of him to do the baby making!  This show could go on forever, especially since the introduction of Viagra.

[LilWharveyGal]

 This show could go on forever, especially since the introduction of Viagra.

 

And that would be another plot point to "borrow" from Big Love!

[Galloway Cave]

 

Kodouche thinks he is a wonderful dad, and he might have been if he wasn't running back and forth to so many households all the time.

In order for Jessop to keep his parental rights and/or prevent Kody from adopting those kids, all he has to do is show a judge footage of the show where Christine TH about how her kids haven't seen Kody in over a week, Christine bargaining with Kody over the wrestling mats for more time visiting her at her house, Maddie saying  he was an absentee father while she was growing up, then footage of Kody AGREEING with her, footage of Truley repeatedly refusing to  have anything to do with Kody, all the ridiculous arguments Kody has with his children, footage of Kody's ineffectual parenting of his male children, and footage of Kody obviously favoring Sol over the rest of his children (Robyn's children included because lets face it, the girls are the ones draping themselves on him, not vice versa). Robyn can show a million posed photos of Kody and her and the kids, but that doesn't prove he is a great father to her kids. He may have the luxury of being around them a lot more in the five years that they have been in the family, due to the filming of the show, something that their biological father may not have had because he worked a real job when they lived with him and he now lives around 850 miles away. Hopefully a judge will see through all the Brown bullshit for what it is.

 

But I'm betting it never gets near a court. These people aren't that motivated. Unless TLC pays for the court costs, it won't happen.

[leighroda]

In the "if something happened to Robyn scenario" where would the kids live? I would assume Robyns house would have to be sold, Kody doesn't have a house of his own, so they would have to move in with another mom, and likely separated... The only mom that could easily take in 4 more people is Meri, but she would go from having one of the oldest to the youngest child... I kinda get the feelings she is enjoying her empty nest. This is all highly speculative, and I highly doubt they thought that far ahead in their little scenario, all they are concerned about is taking away Jessops parental rights, why worry yourself with such logistical issues.

[Absolom]

One of the things that bothered me a lot is that they want us to think they are one big happy family yet Robyn emphasized on Twitter that the discussion with Christine and Janelle was not staged and the first that they heard of it.  A divorce and remarriage should be big enough thing that at least the adults in the family should participate in the decision making part and not simply be told.  Robyn on Twitter was much more concerned that the scene of telling the other two wives not appear staged to the audience than in the reality of their changing their marriage and it should be agreed on by all of them up front before they change things.  

[Kohola3]

Every single lame brained thing they do just further drives additional nails in the Polygamy Is So Wonderful coffin.  They have done more as a group to negate any positive points than the whole Mormon hierarchy decree against it.

[mbutterfly]

It could happen if he realizes how much she's manipulated him, and gets resentful.  Or if he thought that marrying Robyn would get her to open up the Magic Womb for him again, and she keeps putting it off.

 

Meri might appreciate him showing up more.  I've always suspected that one of her bedrooms that she required for the 'children she should have had' was turned into a man cave for Koduche.  Janelle might or might not want him around more.  But poor, pathetic Christine would be so happy it'd probably drive him off again. 

 

If it reached that point, what's a polygamist to do?  Marry Robyn's live in babysitter?  OMG, what if that's her plan?  Get the Title, get the control, and then shove another wife in front of him to do the baby making!  This show could go on forever, especially since the introduction of Viagra.

Kody wanting to run away from Robyn down the road a bit wouldn't surprise me in the least. He is a run away and hide sort of person. Yeah, I definitely think he has a man cave at Mary's. He's probably high on his new marriage now, but he'll soon want to hide or go wrestle somebody, something, anything to get away from that voice. I think Robyn's babysitter will feel like a trap to Kody if he hasn't already gotten entangled and spiritually married to and impregnated before he thinks. 

[Kellyee]

I think Janelle summarized this entire situation when she said "I'm trying to reach for the logic here." A huge hidden WTF if ever there was one. I love her.

[Granny58]

I don't think their primary concern is what happens if Robyn dies. And it's not about the well-being of the kids. They want to erase Jessop from existence and pretend the kids were born from Kody. I have very little doubt that if Jessop signed legal papers saying that if Robyn dies he would continue with custody as is... in other words they could live with the Browns and their step siblings but he would continue to have his visitation etc just as he does now, that wouldn't be what they want. They want him not to exist. 

I do believe you have nailed it.

[Granny58]

"Notice Robyn in her talking heads. According to FBI profilers, people who are telling the truth when recalling a story typically look to right and to the side. People who are lying or creating a new story look up and to the left. Also, 'real' emotional crying tens to come more from the right eye, while fake forced crying comes from the left. Physical pain comes from both, but continues more on the right."

 

wow, that's interesting.  thank you for this info.

[missy jo]

Also, you can catch people saying "yes" while nodding their head "no," and vice versa. Something I always look out for on these reality shows!

[kassa]

Be careful when using the "direction the person looks while lying" technique.  As a guide, sure, but sadly I look up and to the left (while squinting) when trying to remember things, so I hope I'm never interrogated by a body language expert.  Had a lovely fight about it once with somebody who said it "proved" I was lying about something so completely inconsequential I didn't even remember it, let alone care enough to lie about it.  

[Absolom]

I've read that the "experts" are coming to the view that there isn't that much meaning to which direction a person looks.  There was quite a bit of over-interpretation going on it seems.

[RazzleberryPie]

I've read that the "experts" are coming to the view that there isn't that much meaning to which direction a person looks.  There was quite a bit of over-interpretation going on it seems.

I always wondered how that works if a person is right or left handed. Is it backward if lefthanded? Either way, Robyn's a liar.

[Kohola3]

Either way, Robyn's a liar.

 

Nope, we don't need a fancy profiler to tell us that.  Her stories are so convoluted that they are one big knot.

[JenMcSnark]

Also, you can catch people saying "yes" while nodding their head "no," and vice versa. Something I always look out for on these reality shows!

 

Do you mean while shaking their head?  I nod my head all the time when saying affirmative things at work.  It's called a nod of understanding or acceptance.

 

nod

    verb \ˈnäd\

: to move your head up and down as a way of answering “yes” or of showing agreement, understanding, or approval

: to move your head up and down as a signal to someone or as a way of saying hello or goodbye to someone

: to slightly move your head in a specified direction

[Featherhat]

I've looked people straight in their eyes and lied (mostly my family on trivial domestic issues) I don't think there is a formula, especially when googling "how to lie convincingly" takes 30 seconds and will produce a myriad of results.  Robyn and the rest are liars because there stories make no sense, body language is interesting but unreliable.

[Emme]

Wait a minute!  Day'un's name used to be David Jr.?????

I think I remember from one of the first Robin episodes that his name is DAvid PresTON - hence Daton.

[Granny58]

I think I remember from one of the first Robin episodes that his name is DAvid PresTON - hence Daton.

Ohhhhh....that's lame.

[Absolom]

He's Dayton or Dayun as Robyn says it at home because it's part of her erasing her ex-husband from her current life.

[GEML]

That's one theory. Or it's a way of calling him a name to distinguish him as a Jr with the same name as his dad. As an Aspergers child, I think we would have seen him look uncomfortable with the name if he didn't like it or it was something he felt was forced on him. But he seems fine with it, which makes me think it's a name of long standing - hence nothing nefarious about it.

[Absolom]

Then why change it only after she began courting Kody?

[GEML]

Are we certain that she did?

[Absolom]

It was in one of the episodes in season one.

[GEML]

I remember her explaining the name, but not that it was new. It does seem interesting to me that Dayton himself seems happy to go along with it. It's clear Robyn lives in a revisionist fantasy world, and the daughters were young and, um, impressionable. But Aspergers children tend to see the world pretty literally and remind you of that fairly often, especially as it pertains to them.

[Absolom]

We don't know if she had to have several discussions with him about it off camera.  He does still use David when it's up to him like at school.  

[GEML]

But I know a lot of people (including people with Aspergers) who have a home name and a school name, as the Jr issue isn't a problem there. So that, in and of itself, isn't definitive.

I totally get the snark, because this entire family is delusional. But I do remain a little skeptical regarding issues about Dayton, as he might indeed be delusional in his own ways (just because someone is on the spectrum doesn't mean they have no imagination or are more "honest" after all ) just that I don't see him rewriting his own history. That really would be atypical in my opinion. Other people may feel differently, of course.

[Absolom]

I don't think he rewrote his history.  I think Robyn rewrote it in her mind.  Just like she made the girls call Kody "daddy" she had Dayton start using a new name around the Browns.  It was a big discussion on the internet back when it happened.  Kids with Aspergers are just as varied as other children so what he understood of what Robyn wanted from him isn't obvious to me.  It was just something that happened.  

[GEML]

I remember the discussion. I disagreed with it then, and I disagree with the point now, for the same reasons. But that's me.

[Absolom]

It's your right. We're all entitled to see them as they appear to us.  

[ladle]

Why not see if Robin's ex will terminate his parental rights (which would seem to be the biggest hurdle here) first, and then if you're able to get him to do that, go through with the divorce/remarriage?  This is a drastic step to take for potentially no payoff.  I mean, I assume this is all bs anyway, but even their bs story makes no sense.  Just make your bullshit logically consistent, Browns - that's all I ask!

 

Also, I can't help it: I love Jenelle.  "I'm not going to comment on this."  HA!