S30: Vince Sly

[Donny Ketchum]

I'm sorry, but I don't think this fits at all.  It not only excuses his creeper behavior, but it also doesn't fit the situation in the game.  He wasn't trying and trying to reach the girl--he just assumed that she bonded to him, because that's how he WANTED it to be.  That's classic stalker behavior.  Even if verbally she was being non-commital at times, her facial expressions, tone of voice, and particularly her body language were just SCREAMING that she was humoring him at best, and seriously weirded out at worst.  

 

I know there's a specific psychological condition where certain people can't read facial expressions, but I don't think that's quite it, because he couldn't read her body language or tone of voice either.  Maybe there's a condition that combines an inability to perceive ANY of that.  I know it's a common result of autism/aspergers, for example, but that's certainly not the only people that have this, I bet.  Or maybe he CAN read those things (for example, he seemed to be able to read her activity later on from a distance as flirting), but he's got some ego thing going on where he selective ignores "input" that doesn't agree with the conclusion he wants to come to.

Oh, that's definitely not autism or Asperger's that Vince displayed.  I have both myself, and I know the signs.  That is just clear-cut narcissism that I've seen from him, and I'm glad I won't have to see it anymore.

[ihartcoffee]

Oh, that's definitely not autism or Asperger's that Vince displayed.  I have both myself, and I know the signs.  That is just clear-cut narcissism that I've seen from him, and I'm glad I won't have to see it anymore.

I agree, they hate hugging are are usually not big on eye contact, right? 

 

Vince must have read a similar romancing the women book that Peter read.... stare deeply and intensely into the object of desires eyes, they will me mesmerized and yours forever! 

 

He was so awkward to watch.  His jealousy of Joe was palpable.  Joe is what he wishes he could be.  

 

Something about him was reminding me of Michael Fassbender for some reason, like Vince could be his unattractive loser brother.  

[Special K]

His mouth is saying:  Let's hug it out

But his eyes are saying:  I'ma kill you

 

Also:  Ten seconds is a l-o-n-g time to hug.  I'm not sure I'd want to full-frontal hug ANYONE except a lover for 10 seconds.  Or maybe a sick child.  Or my cat.*  :)

 

 

* Edited to clarify that the cat will have none of that.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Special K

[ratgirlagogo]

I'm kind of sorry he's not going to be on the jury.  Can you just imagine?

[candall]

I also have The Gift of Fear book and try to keep in touch with that part of myself. 

 

"I felt like something was wrong, but I didn't want to ___________."  [look silly, offend a total stranger, be perceived as prejudiced, hurt someone's feelings, create an awkward situation with a co-worker, etc.]

 

Nope.  That first thing!  Listen to that.

 

I felt the same ping with Vince that others did.  In fact, he went from Jenn-possessive to anti-Jenn so fast, I wouldn't be shocked to learn he marched out of TC with some secret conviction that Jenn had cost him a million dollars.

[Donny Ketchum]

I agree, they hate hugging are are usually not big on eye contact, right? 

Some hate the hugging, yes.  I myself am more than okay with it.  But yeah, eye contact is definitely a weak point for most of us.  Vince seemed to have no problem with either of those.

[CletusMusashi]

If anything, he seemed like he was trying to do the Svengali eyes, as if he could force his willpower into Joe's brain.

Edited March 5, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[MyLisa]

Just when it clicked for me who he reminded me of -- Phil Dunphey -- he's gone.  That's a relief.

[Kromm]

Rob C's annoying Podcast interviews Vince.  I haven't listened to it yet, but here's the link.

 

http://robhasawebsite.com/survivor-2015-exit-interview-vince-sly-worlds-apart-cbs-got-voted-off/

 

EDIT - A little into it now.  Naturally Slyboy blames "the editing" for appearing like a creeper.  He also says it was "lack of sleep" and blames the fact that one of his tribemates snores really loud.  He says his conversation with Jenn was an hour and a half long and that's why he acted like there was a bond.  Admittedly he has a point that a lot was left out, but just listening to him talk about it I think he still sounds like kind of a weirdo, even if it wasn't a "crush".

Edited March 6, 2015 by Kromm

[treeofdreams]

So a potential "colorful Survivor character" loses his chance at fame - who remembers those voted out second?

 

Unless, of course, they bring him back for another season...

[CletusMusashi]

They will.

[Calamity Jane]

They will.

After the restraining orders are lifted. 

[KimberStormer]

I'm mulling over why Vince bothered me so much more than the guy using his sister's death to hit on women. I think it is because I perceived/reacted to weird tattoo guy as inept and seriously clueless about acceptability, but not overtly menacing.  And at first, I just chalked Vince up as a typical alpha-male Type A personality masquerading as a laid-back beach bum and laughed a little about his toddler tantrum over the construction of the hut and not getting his "collaborative" way about it.  

 

After the bizarre interactions with Jenn, though, my danger-radar started pinging so loudly it made me seriously uncomfortable.  This is exactly what Gavin De Becker describes as the gift of fear -- you get that warning from your mind, you don't know exactly why, but women especially are acculturated to ignore it in favor of a more benign interpretation because they can't explain it rationally, which is what a psychopath depends on to lure in his prey.  Tattoo guy did not set off my danger alarm, don't know why, just my ewwww, wouldn't date in a million years reaction.  Vince, for whatever reason, made my skin crawl.  Obviously different people can have different reactions, and I can't rationally explain why Vince bothered me so much, but I would never, ever, in the real world, ignore it.  

 

I understand I am totally alone in this, but my gift of fear was screaming full-on terrified when Rodney was telling his story, and went into "I would quit the game" territory when he explained how he uses this stuff to get women to trust him.  Vince seemed needy, creepy, annoying, but not scary to me.  He is the one I would have described as clueless and inept, and Rodney as the psycho.  I don't think of Rodney as "avoid dating", I think of him as "will slaughter me and bury me in a bathtub of salt in his basement".  Vince seems like he will keep calling me for a year or more after I've told him I'm not interested, maybe show up with a bottle of champagne and some flowers where I work because he thinks it's romantic and will win me over.

I don't know why I want to say this again except that I sort of feel like I am coming off as some sort of clueless PC victim who doesn't understand the importance of listening to her feelings?  I just felt different feelings.  I've dealt with several Vinces in my life, and I've been stalked as well, and I just don't get the same vibe as everyone else seems to.  Like you, I don't know why.  It's some bone-deep thing.  The same bone-deep thing that is apparently making me defensive?  Like you'd victim-blame me if I got stalked?  She should have read The Gift of Fear, shaking her head ruefully.  Which is obviously not the case, I know.

 

Anyway he is gone now and will disappear down the Survivor memory hole like so many pre-merge characters.  And that's fine with me.  It's also fine with me that he had positive last words, because I'm not scared of him and don't hate him.

[LanceM]

Survivor casting at its finest.

 

http://cartermatt.com/155562/survivor-worlds-apart-exclusive-vince-sly-on-elimination-strategy-desire-to-play-again/

 

Vince Sly – I have a side project called Coconut Caravan that’s gotten a lot of press because Jeff [Probst] pumped it so hard. Coconut Caravan is a circus-influenced, gypsy-themed coconut-vending cart that I had for fun. It was a weekend side project; I used to bring boxes of coconuts down the original Muscle Beach south of Santa Monica Pier, and just give coconuts to my friends after a hard workout … After a long day, what’s better than a coconut?

… [Eventually after a while], a lot of people were out watching us do our flips and tricks, and I had a couple of coconuts sitting on the boardwalk wind-barrier. I had two guys walk but and ask me about the coconuts, yada yada yada, I ended up making a whole cart as a part of it, after they were like (uses different voice) ‘I want to buy this, is this for sale?’ Then other people went by and were like ‘I want to have one as well. How much? Five dollars? Seven dollars?’ It became a coconut auction. Within three weeks I had business licenses and everything else, and within six weeks I had a fully-functioning coconut cart and some of my friends working with me.

We did that, it was a lot of fun, and to answer your question, I had reached the end of the day, and was all sold out on coconuts except for maybe two or three. Then, a cop comes by. I only had a license to park this cart in a specific location, you can’t have it on the walking boardwalk. I had parked [where I shouldn’t] next to Santa Monica Pier, and this cop has this face like he wants to write me a ticket. So I immediately jump up and go into this full spiel about how officers in uniform get free coconuts, and how he should come down with his family and his friends. ‘As long as you’re in uniform, whoever you’re with get free coconuts on us, in honor of all the hard work you do’ … As soon as he drives away, this lady on the other side of the cart makes a beeline over to me and offers me [a chance] to be on ‘Survivor.’ I go through the standard process of making the video, applying, and I got on the show.

Edited March 7, 2015 by LanceM

[Calamity Jane]

I understand I am totally alone in this, but my gift of fear was screaming full-on terrified when Rodney was telling his story, and went into "I would quit the game" territory when he explained how he uses this stuff to get women to trust him.  Vince seemed needy, creepy, annoying, but not scary to me.  He is the one I would have described as clueless and inept, and Rodney as the psycho.  I don't think of Rodney as "avoid dating", I think of him as "will slaughter me and bury me in a bathtub of salt in his basement".  Vince seems like he will keep calling me for a year or more after I've told him I'm not interested, maybe show up with a bottle of champagne and some flowers where I work because he thinks it's romantic and will win me over.

I don't know why I want to say this again except that I sort of feel like I am coming off as some sort of clueless PC victim who doesn't understand the importance of listening to her feelings?  I just felt different feelings.  I've dealt with several Vinces in my life, and I've been stalked as well, and I just don't get the same vibe as everyone else seems to.  Like you, I don't know why.  It's some bone-deep thing.  The same bone-deep thing that is apparently making me defensive?  Like you'd victim-blame me if I got stalked?  She should have read The Gift of Fear, shaking her head ruefully.  Which is obviously not the case, I know.

 

Anyway he is gone now and will disappear down the Survivor memory hole like so many pre-merge characters.  And that's fine with me.  It's also fine with me that he had positive last words, because I'm not scared of him and don't hate him.

I think it's logical, oddly enough, that different people would feel differently about these guys because we all have our own sets of experiences informing our reactions.  I'm waiting to see if my reaction to Rodney changes over time -- he didn't get enough time on camera this time for me to get much of a read, or so it seemed to me.  And I felt much less reaction about Vince, too, this week.  I personally don't think victims are to blame for being stalked; I think our whole society sets women up to be uncertain of their own instincts about people because we're always supposed to be people pleasers and grant the benefit of the doubt instead of saying hell no, while men seem to be encouraged to trust their gut reactions.   Perhaps that's changing, I hope it is, I think my daughter has less of that engrained into her psyche than I did.  I grew up in the fifties, and things were reallllly different back then.

[cooksdelight]

A couple of Survivor veterans I know summed up Vince as being the poster boy for insecurity. All the chest-beating, the feathers, the attempt to indimidate Joe and others was a signal to them. And they've been there, they'd know better than me.

[marys1000]

I think some of the over the top assessments of Vince of somebody just short of Ted Bundy are wayyy over the top.  I was hoping he would stick around just to see how much so.  I would have loved to see people have to eat crow.    Sure he is sort of "california" and may be sort of insecure.  I think the editors love to create a twitterfest of someone and are probably really upset right now.  He certainly had good reason to be paranoid, that tight team of 3 was a game threat.

His interviews don't sound bad.  If someone on the show were from NYC and were a hot dog vendor would they be getting all this disdain?  That's basically what he is only its Cal and coconuts.  Shrug.  I'm not a Vince fan per se but the almost salicious joy in hyping and making fun of a few edited moments is disturbing me. 

[pennben]

 

I think some of the over the top assessments of Vince of somebody just short of Ted Bundy are wayyy over the top.  I was hoping he would stick around just to see how much so.  I would have loved to see people have to eat crow.

 

Maybe, and sure, editing can play a role, but I'm not going to dismiss anyone's feelings toward another.  In real life, waiting to see someone proved wrong can be waiting to see them dead. I'm not saying that is Vince (at all), but I am saying I will respect someone being creeped out and wanting to walk away from someone else, even if I don't see it.

 

I like to be right, but not that much.

 

. 

[CletusMusashi]

If someone on the show were from NYC and were a hot dog vendor would they be getting all this disdain?  That's basically what he is only its Cal and coconuts.  

I think the jokes about Jenn not wanting to buy a wiener from him would be flying pretty fast. She'd probably be making them right along with us.

The New York thing would not matter. Judd was a New York doorman. Some words just sound funny, and "doorman" is one of them. As is "coconut." Suffice it to say that nobody on TWOP ever gave that guy an inch. But, just like with Vince, the vast majority of it was due to the material he gave us. Man, those were good times.

The same season also featured a "fishmonger," and we used the word as often as humanly possible, but she was just never as ridiculed as Judd was, because Judd acted like an insane fool. As did Vince.

Edited March 7, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[KimberStormer]

Survivor casting at its finest.

 

I assume you're being sarcastic but it sounds like it really is?  Someone who's obviously a colorful character who demonstrates a wily mind and gift of persuasion to get out of trouble?  That's exactly who you want on Survivor.

[ProfCrash]

I saw Vince as pretty controlling and interested in dominating everyone. The second episode showed him in Joe's face demanding that Joe acknowledge that Vince worked around camp and that Joe had been wrong about something. Vince used a very calm voice but was standing so that he was over Joe and with his face close to Joe's.

There were several comments about Vince not respecting personal space.

I don't see him as harmless. At best he insists on being the dominant person in a social setting. At worst, he is someone who I could see stalking a person.

[candall]

 Vince seems like he will keep calling me for a year or more after I've told him I'm not interested, maybe show up with a bottle of champagne and some flowers where I work

Next stop, Basement.  Please watch your step as you exit the elevator.

 

 

Nope, I totally respect that Rodney riffles the hairs on the back of your neck, as Vince does mine.  Let's meet back here after the Snapped episode airs and I'll buy you a drink.

Edited March 7, 2015 by candall

[Miss Scarlet]

I finally figured out who he sounds like - Vytas with a bit of Tyson mixed in. No wonder I thought his voice was so creepy.

[treeofdreams]

I find that I am quite disappointed that Vince was voted out.  I would like to have seen if he lived up to the impression so many viewers were getting of him.

 

He certainly was more interesting to watch than most of the other players.

[BigRedCheese]

 

I would like to have seen if he lived up to the impression so many viewers were getting of him.

 

I felt like he lived up to it in his post boot interviews.

[treeofdreams]

I did not see any.  Care to give details?  Thanks!

[BigRedCheese]

No, I don't, I don't want to give anymore thought to this weirdo. The interviews are all available to listen to, if you've listened and come away with a different impression, fair enough.

[Kromm]

I did not see any.  Care to give details?  Thanks!

The only one I've heard, read or seen was the Rob C. podcast interview, and Vince comes off even more like "Coach" than I'd thought he did on the show--which is not a good thing, but admittedly is slightly different than the sexual predator vibe.  Frankly, he comes off like a pathetic loser--a self-important shit stain, wrapped in that form of ego where he's convinced he was put on this earth to dispel his own vision and "wisdom".  The only cogent point I heard him make at all was that the conversation with Jenn was, he claims, over an hour and a half long, and while that doesn't make other things we saw from him any less weird, it's SLIGHTLY less weird than talking about how connected you are to somebody after the 2 minutes of conversation we DID see.

EDIT - Oh wait, this is fun(ny): http://www.hitfix.com/the-fien-print/interview-vince-sly-talks-survivor-worlds-apart

Great quotes like:

 

I’m a holistic counselor. I don’t think that was ever expressed on the show. And as a holistic counselor I approach those who are maybe suffering through unhealthy lifestyles and lifestyle choices and usher them comfortably into a self-sustainable lifestyle which offers them their optimal mental and physical well-being.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Kromm

[cooksdelight]

I’m a holistic counselor. I don’t think that was ever expressed on the show. And as a holistic counselor I approach those who are maybe suffering through unhealthy lifestyles and lifestyle choices and usher them comfortably into a self-sustainable lifestyle which offers them their optimal mental and physical well-being.

I suppose he offers them a coconut milk enema to achieve this goal?

[treeofdreams]

Thanks for that link.  Now I'm really sorry he is gone.  I liked everything he had to say, and I don't think he came off as weird or creepy at all.

 

And I know holistic counselors and other people in that kind of field.  (Hey, I live in Sedona...)  They have a certain perspective on life that other people may find weird, but they are good people and sincerely want to help others.

[Kromm]

I suppose he offers them a coconut milk enema to achieve this goal?

Well apparently he (claims) he "owns four art galleries", is a "holistic counselor" AND a "part time coconut vendor".  All three.  So who knows?  Maybe he sells artwork made from coconut shells and makes enemas from the milk.

Thanks for that link.  Now I'm really sorry he is gone.  I liked everything he had to say, and I don't think he came off as weird or creepy at all.

 

And I know holistic counselors and other people in that kind of field.  (Hey, I live in Sedona...)  They have a certain perspective on life that other people may find weird, but they are good people and sincerely want to help others.

It's a totally unlicensed and unregulated field though, isn't it?  Isn't someone a holistic counselor basically because they SAY they are?

[treeofdreams]

True.  But word of mouth in that "community" will out anyone who is shady. 

 

I should add: When someone is looking for that kind of counselor, they first get personal recommendations.  It's not a case of looking someone up in the yellow pages; they ask around about who other people have used and who is good and who should be avoided.

Edited March 10, 2015 by treeofdreams

[Jersey Guy 87]

That interview was a riot although they apparently left out his story about being chased by a tribe of pygmies that wanted to eat his ass.

 

I'm assuming Vince is a complete Trustafarian.

[peachmangosteen]

I almost want to see him and Coach back and on the same tribe. I mean, can you imagine?!

[fishcakes]

That interview is a real pantload. And I don't understand this at all:

 

I was waiting for an opportunity in Tribal to reinforce that, "Hey Will, I got you," without letting the other ones know that I’m going this other direction they should just all funnel their votes to me, because I did so much work already to get them to split their votes.

 

So he's claiming that he's the one responsible for the split vote between himself and Nina? That seems ... fictional. Although if it's true, it's hilarious because it means he got himself voted out.

[ProfCrash]

Ohhhh a crazy people tribe. Philip, Coach, Vince, Russell but not Brandon. Brandon is really messed up and shouldn't ever appear on the show again, never mind in a tribe with Philip.

 

Let me see, for women we could have Shambo and who else? There are not as many crazy women that pop to mind.  Corrine just cause it would be fun to watch her go crazy.

[fishcakes]

Ohhhh a crazy people tribe. Philip, Coach, Vince, Russell but not Brandon. Brandon is really messed up and shouldn't ever appear on the show again, never mind in a tribe with Philip.

 

Let me see, for women we could have Shambo and who else? There are not as many crazy women that pop to mind.  Corrine just cause it would be fun to watch her go crazy.

 

I don't know about Russell; he's more mean than crazy. I might swap him out for Shane.

 

For women: Definitely Shambo. Also Dawn, Holly, Wanda.

[Lamb18]

J'Tia, Abby, Kass.

[Hera]

So he's claiming that he's the one responsible for the split vote between himself and Nina? That seems ... fictional. Although if it's true, it's hilarious because it means he got himself voted out.

There's another interview around where Vince claims to have planted the idea that Nina might have an idol by saying that she was off by herself a lot. I have no idea whether it's true since we were never shown him doing this, nor did anyone say why they were worried that Nina might have found an idol. But on the other hand, we weren't really shown any sort rationale for splitting the vote apart from, "One of our targets might have an idol." Maybe Joe, Hali, and Jenn were being cautious for the sake of it, or maybe Vince really did manage to convince them that Nina might have found an idol—the footage the show aired was uninformative on this point.

[Kromm]

He said that in the Rob C. podcast, yes.  Basically to "prove" that because they decided to vote split that he was therefore a master strategist.

I suppose if it had succeeded we'd be slightly more willing to agree with his own self-assessment.

[cooksdelight]

I'm beginning to think the former Survivors I spoke of earlier have met this guy and have his number as being an insecure braggart down pat.

[NutMeg]

I haven't watched any exit interview but somehow I'm starting to feel bad for all we've piled on this guy. Yes he looked like a weirdo, and a dangerous one to boot. And maybe he is a weirdo, and maybe he's even dangerous. But I know, as an amateur (but keen) photographer, I can make anyone look like a weirdo, a hero, a thoughful soul or a jackass, I just need to know what I'm looking for and lock it in. And I suspect the same is true for editors of TV shows. It's hard to explain, because I'm standing on anything I said or agreed to about him before, but somehow the fact that he is now gone from the show and that what we saw (with maybe hours of a different personality left on the floor) will not be corroborated by future episodes makes me uncomfortable. I'm not sure I'm explaining myself well here, anyone has the same feeling and can maybe explain it better?   

[ProfCrash]

NutMeg, that is all true. Yet, I point to his comments that the second episode was representative of his behavior and who is as a person. That is the episode where he insisted on Joe acknowledging that Vince was right about specific things and where Vince was, once again, in a persons private space. The same episode saw Jenn and Hali discussing the lack of personal space with Vince. The same episode that had Joe discussing Vince's intensity, stare, and lack of personal space. And the comment that he loves 10 second long hugs. And the comments about the Cold War between Joe and Vince.

 

In his interviews he has consistently said he wanted power and control.

 

All of that reinforces my belief that Vince is very interested in being the dominant person in the room. He uses his new age chatter so that it comes off differently but it translates to the same thing. He wants to be in control at all times.

 

He reminds me of Cal from Utopia this season. The motives sound great, the language hippy/new age and blown off by a lot of people, but the controlling behavior is very much there. And yeah, that scares me. He did not lay a hand on anyone but he was shown frequently to be in peoples face and personal space. He says in his interviews that he is going to be positive and not knock people but refers to the other alliance as the Barbie Block.

 

Based on what I saw and have read since he left, he strikes me as a disingenuous control freak. He still gives me the stalker vibe.

[NutMeg]

ProfCrash, I'm with you in this case as as you pointed out there were a lot of bright red flags. Which I got and felt too. I guess my post, using Vince as a (maybe not so good) example, was in reality more about how sometimes we make a strong opinion about someone based on a very edited version we see of them. And once again, I'm not going back of my opinion on Vince, who I thought was extremely inappropriate in the way he invaded people's space, but because we won't see more of him it got me thinking of the sometimes truncated versions of people we are privvy too. Many people can appear like assholes initially (in another thread I mentioned Ozzy in his first season, before his poetry in motion brought me over, as well as Bobby Jon in his first season, before his "doomed hero on a doomed tribe" dynamic became compelling enough to draw me in). I guess this reflexion should have been in a more general thread, but because in this case it was thinking of this particular contestant that brought it up, I put it here, which was probably the wrong place as it's more general of a general thoight than one specific to Vince. And for the record, I agree with all you've said :-)     

[fishcakes]

NutMeg, I see what you're saying, but I think it's more the nature of the boards than the editing. If we all viewed Vince as a weirdo/possible stalker, then there'd be much less discussion about it. We'd all say, "man, he's freaky" and forget about it. But since there are people who want to defend him as just being a sensitive guy with love to share or whatever, it turns into the never ending debate.

 

People pick sides (Vince vs. Jenn, Jenn vs. Nina, Probst vs. women in general) and then any time there's 3 seconds of footage confirming their pre-existing bias, they harp on that until the end of time to "prove" they're right about the person they've never met. And when the footage supporting their position doesn't exist, they just make something up or speculate in an irrelevant way and a bunch of people will jump in to agree with them. I find myself getting sucked into these things too, so at some point I just have to exit the conversation and let the people who can't let it go continue to validate each other.

 

I do think it's worse than it used to be. I don't know if you were on TWoP back during the Ted/Ghandia grinding incident, but that was one of the most hilarious discussions ever. People generally and sensibly agreed that we didn't know what really happened and everyone had a story of some bizarro thing they did while half-asleep ("My sister and I had to share a bed on vacation and one morning we woke up holding hands." "I was sleeping alone and one morning I woke up to find I'd taken off my underpants in my sleep.") I feel like if that incident happened now, the arguing would burn these boards to the ground. Possibly I'm remembering things as being rosier than they were, but it does seem like talking about TV on the internet used to be a fun way to avoid work for a few minutes (okay, hours) and now it's like a fight to the death. So I guess my thinking is that while it starts out being about Vince or Jenn or Nina, by the time it becomes a pile-on, it's really not about them at all, it's just about us wanting to argue or wanting to be right. I do know that if I were ever to be on a reality TV show, I definitely wouldn't read about myself on the internet.

[ProfCrash]

fishcakes: Yeah, there is part of me that fears beating a dead horse with this but my concern is that society has a tendency to overlook red flags for an individual or look away when it they see something uncomfortable or find some way to justify it and then later we ask how did we miss the signs that said person was a stalker and he/she just killed his/her wife/husband/kids.

 

I don't think Vince is a predator. I don't think he is out stalking Jenn or Joe. I think if he had a history of inappropriate behavior he would not have been cast or we would have heard about it by now.

 

I do think that Vince showed a lot of the signs that are discussed in pretty much every company I have worked for sexual harassment and workplace violence training material. It is almost comical how close his portrayal came to the more extreme re-enactments in those trainings. So yes, production is at play, but I fear that we try and wave it away and ignore the flags.

 

NutMeg, I agree that Vince was an edited character and the editing showed played into a story line. But Vince has said that the editing of the second episode was fine. The only difference in the second episode and the first is that Vince was shown targeting Joe and not Jenn and there was not a long bro hug. But the overall behavior was the same.

 

This past season in the NFL we saw some pretty public cases of domestic abuse and caused people to have some pretty uncomfortable conversations. I am not saying that Vince is going to hurt someone but that there are signs that are unsettling. And yes, I find the "he was edited that way" as an attempt to explain away some scary red flags. I have had similar concerns with Big Brother and Utopia. It is amazing how different the folks who watched the Live Feeds saw the Caleb/Amber situation then the people who watched the edited version of the show. Caleb was sniffing Amber's baby blanket, kissed her while she was sleeping and making comments about how much he loved her to how he controlled her destiny in the house to get that bitch out based on how Amber was treating him. That stuff never aired.

 

So think about it this way, this is the footage that Vince provided the Producers in his six days in the game. In six days we saw two intense conversations that came down to trust and a desire to control people. We saw three conversations about Vince's lack of personal boundaries. In his interviews he is calling the younger folks the Barbie Block and says he won't speak poorly of anyone but then uses innuendo to speak poorly of them. His cooky appearance and more laid back demeanor is different then Russell's loud and in your face approach but they are both control freaks who use slightly different techniques to try and run things.

 

I guess I get worried that people are trying to find excuses for bad behavior and trying to wave off some important warning signs. That scares me.

[NutMeg]

Thank you fishcakes for this extensive and very interesting reply - I'm liking this discussion very much and thank you for your insights. I get your nature-of-the-boards comments and agree to some extent. For instance, I've seen cases, maybe not so much on Survivor boards but more on TAR forum, where the opinion is so overwhelmingly for or against one team/contestant that any contrary view is massively disregarded - except by the two or so people who are very happy to see that they're not alone in having different view on things. But still i think that's ok, that's what these forums are for, find like-minded people, see different viewpoints that we would have never seen otherwise, sometimes change our minds or understand how apparently conflicting views each have something interesting and worthwhile to add to the discussion. Sometime, I will "plus" a post that reflect what I think, then read one that says the opposite but makes valid points and even if it doesn't change my mind, if the points are valid and well argumented, I'll plus them too. It does not mean I'm wishy/washy, it means I love good arguments even when I'm not sold :-)

 

I agree with you that sometimes people just pick sides and will work them to death but I still view (and maybe I'm naive - well, I am, because by default I never rule anything out, which means I can appear gullible, while I'm seeing it as keeping an open mind) these let's call them dictators of the mind as being a minority here as well as on TWOP. Yes, some will almost fight to the death to push their opinions, but there are also those (more interesting to read) who not only bring valid opinions but take into account different viewpoints and sometime come to alter their initial perceptions). Yes, I was a TWOP member, but not until Palau (missed first episode due to being overseas, looked for a recap, found Miss Ali's, got hooked, then because recaps came very late went to look at forum and got even more hooked with the discussions and snark going on there) and only started posting years after. Having only watched Survivor starting with Pearl Islands, I googled Ted/Ghandia. You may have a point that boards were less sanguine back then, I don't know either way, as obviously I came on board later on. .

 

(as an aside, this Ted/Ghandia is very interesting in that it was broadcasted, but when a similar situation arose during Cook Islands that apparently influenced some players' opinion of others, and may have had a big influence on how one specific player was pwerceived, it was not aired and only surfaced after exit interviews. I'm sure the sleeping conditions (spooning for warmth and comfort) created many such situations, in most cases we are unaware of). But still, maybe the Ted/Ghandia situation is one example of what TPTB didn't want repeated, hence the different editing. 

 

And note to  moderators: please forgive this entirely off-topic post, I am still clueless as to how we can move a post to a different topic :-(     

[NutMeg]

ProfCrash, I saw the same thing you saw, and as said before I saw bright red flags. And your comment (paraphrasing) about Vince being the poster boy for a harassment video is spot on. Still, imagine, if Vince's sole ambition in coming on Survivor had been to create this character that is extremely spooky in order to build up his acting resume (which so far doesn't seem to be the case, but who knows?), then the perception we have of the Vince character means he would have achieved his aim. So, in the abstract, if he was an actor usually cast in comedies and wanting to expand his repertory, the buzz he created here could take him to the next step. What I mean is that not only does the editing decided by TPTB show us what they want us to see, but the players do too and for any kind of reason (acting career, being called back, establishing a "persona" that they can leverage in other ways, etc.).  

[fishcakes]

I also thought Vince's behavior was disturbing. And if it is a character he created, that might even be worse. Or, stupider, at any rate. In any event, I'm hoping he doesn't get invited back. It's bad enough that Survivor brought Coach and his ever-mutating personality back; a wannabe-Coach is just sad. Vince doesn't even have his own fake martial art to run down and practice at the shoreline every time he hears a helicopter approach.

 

NutMeg, I never heard about the Cook Islands incident. Can you tell me what happened? If you're inclined, maybe we should move over to the Past Seasons thread.

[marys1000]

I think its scary to diagnose someone based on 15 minutes of highly edited tv.  He's a narcissist, he's a stalker, he's dangerous.  WTF. 

 

  A million is at stake.  People are going to feel paranoid, people are going to want to make sure alliances hold.  He got no sleep.   So he got intense a couple of times (you can be sure the editor's didn't use the boring footage).  He's California with a capital C and maybe a bit of touchy feely spirtual douche.

 

But to KNOW he's dangerous?  That's just ridiculous.