S01.E13: The Nuclear Man

[Password]

I really liked this episode.

Concerning Iris telling Linda, I really don't think she meant what happened, to happen. But there's something called TMI. Don't get involved even though you have good intentions. However I'm not down for Iris being butt hurt that Barry is moving on. Please stop show, I have no time for that. She has a loving boyfriend. Tbh I have no problem with Iris having some feelings for Barry that she buried over the years. But don't be that girl Iris. And no I don't think Barry is all of a sudden over Iris. Linda is definitely a rebound. Isn't "I'm totally over her" a symptom of that?

Caitlyn and Ronnie were absolutely great this episode. And this from someone who really enjoyed Snowbarry last week. I think SnowStorm have unresolved...everything, and until that's handled they can't move on. I can't wait to see how this will play out.

I even got emotional over Dr. Stein and his wife. This episode is REALLY something Arrow needs. Forget the villainy and action, slow it down and give us character beats and TALKING TO EACH OTHER. Probably not the thread to vent about Arrow.

Barry outrunning the nuclear explosion was so funny. Like what? I thought you couldn't do that but apparently you can. WITH the weight of Caitlyn in your arms? Eh.

Cisco and Joe were really great this episode. When Dr Wells spouted his greater good speech Cisco finally thought "hmm OK creeper". The desperate housewife making moves on Joe was hilarious. So Barry was at his mums death? Went back in time to stop the inevitable?

Perhaps I'm in the minority but I don't particularly care for Linda. I like Linda fine, but I don't particularly care for their relationship. The pepper thing could've played out differently. If he said "I'll eat this pepper to PROVE how much I want to date you..." I would've liked it more. Instead Barry took lessons from Ray Palmer's book of treachery. Not nearly as bad, but you have to start somewhere.

But a great episode.

[dirtypop90]

I liked Linda but I don't think her and Barry had very good chemsitry. tbh I really don't think Grant has crackling chemistry with iris, caitlin, linda or felicity. But I think he does CP when he's playing the Flash. weird.

[Trini]

Forgot to mention; the special effects were great. It's going to be sad when they lower the budget.

 

And thanks for the abs show, show!

[Chicago Redshirt]

I don't even understand why Iris would be hated after this episode. Linda asked her a question and she answered, it wasn't the best answer...but she thought she was helping. Linda was the one who took it to mean that Barry and Iris had something going on. However, what pissed me off is Barry and him coming to Iris talking to her the way he did. I mean, it's not like she dressed up in a costume and had rooftop chats with him gaging him and flirting with him undercover like someone else we know.

 

The way it was portrayed in the episode, Iris was sabotaging Barry's chance with Linda in a passive-aggressive way.

 

She could have just said, "Barry is complicated and weird but give him a chance." That's what a BFF would do.

 

She went straight to "He's not over someone" as an explanation for whatever issue Linda might have been having. Which incidentally, has nothing to do with the issue that they were having. And Iris didn't act as though she was wanting to know about the actual issue they were having."

 

It was almost wishful thinking on her part that the reason things weren't working out was because Barry was hung up on her.

 

And yes, Iris never said who Barry was hung up on. But Linda almost would have to be dumb, deaf and blind to not put together that Iris was the one he was hung up.

 

The kicker for me was when Barry went to talk with her and ask why she said he was hung up on her. Iris was like, "I didn't..or did I?"

 

There's basically two ways to interpret that and neither of them are particularly endearing for Iris. The first is she is clueless about what she told Linda. The second is that she is being snarky when her supposed BFF comes upset at what she did.

[driedfruit]

Big improvement on the last episode. The break from villain of the week was welcome and I thought all the sub plots were enjoyable, though some more so than others.

 

My favorite arc belongs to Joe and Cisco and the latter's gradual weaning from Wells. The hologram effects were gorgeous, and much appreciated. Though I wasn't surprised that adult Barry was there that night and Wells wasn't. I'm curious where this info is going to lead Joe. 

 

She could have just said, "Barry is complicated and weird but give him a chance." That's what a BFF would do.

The kicker for me was when Barry went to talk with her and ask why she said he was hung up on her. Iris was like, "I didn't..or did I?"

There's basically two ways to interpret that and neither of them are particularly endearing for Iris. The first is she is clueless about what she told Linda. The second is that she is being snarky when her supposed BFF comes upset at what she did.

 

Iris is blunt, always saying whatever's on her mind, however it makes her seem. I didn't see malicious intent on her end, not consciously at least. It was very in character for her to run off with her mouth and diagnose Barry's issues based on what she knows.

 

Her reaction later on was more of an oops. Typical of blabber mouths. 

[FurryFury]

God I hate Ronnie's actor. What a block of wood. I felt absolutely nothing from him, and coupled with DP, who isn't the best actress in the world, to put it mildly... Yeah. Couldn't they movie Ronnie into Victor Garber's body? At least he can act.

 

So over the romance on this show. It's not done well, at all, and shows no signs of improvement. The whole Barry/Iris/Linda stuff went about as badly as I've expected. And Linda got almost no characterization.

 

Overall, a weak episode - one of the weakest episodes of the show, I'd say.

 

Oh, and my theory still stands - the big twist will be that it wasn't Wells or any other villain who killed Nora, it was Barry himself (probably went crazy or something), and Wells was trying to stop this from ever happening. Of course, this is totally unsubstantiated, just something i'd like to happen. Probably too dark for this show, though.

Edited February 11, 2015 by FurryFury

[Cirien]

Oh, and my theory still stands - the big twist will be that it wasn't Wells or any other villain who killed Nora, it was Barry himself (probably went crazy or something), and Wells was trying to stop this from ever happening. Of course, this is totally unsubstantiated, just something i'd like to happen. Probably too dark for this show, though.

I dunno if it'd be Barry who killed his mother. It'd might be Eddie as Reverse Flash who killed her and not Zoom. I can't imagine they'd want Tom off the show that soon he's one of the best actors on it. (or maybe I'm just moping because well without Harrison there's only Eddie for me to drool over and he's getting sidelined). It doesn't feel like they are hedging their bets on who will be the villain of the piece. It's no coincidence that they have two RFs the show after all

[FurryFury]

I can't imagine they'd want Tom off the show that soon he's one of the best actors on it. (or maybe I'm just moping because well without Harrison there's only Eddie for me to drool over and he's getting sidelined).

 

I'll probably drop the show if they'll write Wells off. He's the biggest draw for me, by far. I'm sure he isn't just a straight-up villain, there's been too many hints that he cares about other Team Flash members.

 

I dunno if it'd be Barry who killed his mother. It'd might be Eddie as Reverse Flash who killed her and not Zoom.

 

To be honest, I'll be very disappointed if Eddie will turn out to be a villain this season. There's been ZERO hints about such a possibility and he has had no development at all and no real characterization. It would feel like a complete asspull. And if his motivation would turn out to be jealousy... I remember last year on Sleepy Hollow

when the awesomely menacing Headless Horseman aka Death turned out to be the ex-fiance of lead character's wife who was pissed when she dumped him and wanted revenge. Such a cop-out, it ruined the character forever.

So I really hope that it's not Eddie - but I won't be opposed to him becoming a villain or something a season or two later, provided proper development and motivation.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Lisin
tagged Sleepy Hollow Spoiler

[cambridgeguy]

The fastest man alive - not the best title when you're trying to enjoy some sexy fun times.  Although Linda wasn't discouraged by Barry living with his foster dad so maybe she'd understand. 

 

 

Oh, and my theory still stands - the big twist will be that it wasn't Wells or any other villain who killed Nora, it was Barry himself (probably went crazy or something), and Wells was trying to stop this from ever happening. Of course, this is totally unsubstantiated, just something i'd like to happen. Probably too dark for this show, though.

I don't see them having Barry be the killer but he could be responsible for letting RF travel in time in the first place.  Presumably there'd be no RF without Barry getting his powers in the first place. 

[Shanna]

First off, poor Eddie: he's the real one who's getting shafted.

Oh Cisco, you're so adorable with your Fringe science. He and Joe actually made a good onscreen team. However, I think Joe should have realized that Cisco would be loyal to Wells.

Totally agree about Eddie!

That Cisco hologram 'just for fun' was so hilariously ridiculous. All of his scenes with joe were great and now that joe has planted the seed I think we will see him paying more attention to shady wells and maybe even catching him in the act at something.

One problem though is that the fact the women on this show are defined completely by their relationships to the men on this show. Caitlyn with Ronnie, Iris with Barry and now Linda with Barry. Caitlyn at least works great with Team Flash .

I agree they have kind of made this mistake with iris at times storyline wise and Linda is a one off so that's fine, but I do not agree that Caitlin has been defined by Robbie at all. This episode was focused on it but most of the show has not been. I don't know what they're doing with firestorm but I think it would be a damn shame if they took a step back from treating Caitlin as her own character if Robbie gets included in more scenes. I thought her scene with wells about that being a line she wouldn't cross was great.

The way it was portrayed in the episode, Iris was sabotaging Barry's chance with Linda in a passive-aggressive way..

The thing that saves it for me is actually don't think she meant to do this, it was an accidental overshare. But it was still legit for barry to be unhappy about it and to ask her maybe don't do that again thanks. And he kind of had to tell her the feelings were over because he's trying to move on and she is moved in with Eddie. Edited February 11, 2015 by Shanna

[Sakura12]

The fastest man alive - not the best title when you're trying to enjoy some sexy fun times.  Although Linda wasn't discouraged by Barry living with his foster dad so maybe she'd understand. 

 

 

She seemed to enjoy the vibrating. lol 

[Glory]

Robbie Amell and Liam Hemsworth should start a support group for the lesser talented family members of super-talented, super-good looking actors. I bet some of the Baldwin brothers would show up. Maybe Haley Duff? 

 

He was wooden as fuck and not really very good. Though, he's not bad to look at, I sensed no chemistry between him and Snow. (Intentional maybe? Since he was still Victor?) It was just awkward all around.

 

And, apparently against popular opinion, I actually LIKED Iris in this episode. Her weird wavering is oddly true to human nature. She knew she fucked up, and she knew that Barry had every right to be mad at her. It's probably the most real emotion we've seen her show and so I liked it for that reason only.

 

Linda Park is super hot, though. And I like the actress a lot. 

[Gregg247]

I blame Barry's lack of love-life on bad TV writing.  

 

All Barry (or Iris) had to say to Linda was the simple truth: Barry was one of the victims of the particle accellerator accident and spent 9 months in a coma.  he just came out of it 3-4 months ago, and his doctors (Wells, Caitlan, and Cisco) have cautioned him to take everything slow for awhile.  Perfectly reasonable and accurate.

[shrewd.buddha]

The show is light fun, so I don't watch too seriously -- but the dating stuff is the worst..

Answering your phone during your second date and leaving during a make-out session? There would be no third date. 

Dating confrontations at someone's work place? Isn't that what estranged stalkers with guns do? 

The Iris/Linda/Felicity/Caitlyn multi-angled dating situations are exhausting. But it seems the CW has a mandatory quota for scenes involving love-life angst per episode, so, yuck.. 

 

Also, just to add : I don't think of Iris as a woman of color. The actor, yes, but Iris the character would be written just as badly if she were red, white, blue, whatever. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[CabotCove]

They don't know what to do with her. The writers experience the same problem with Laurel on Arrow.

The truth is, they are only on these shows for one reason. They are the heroes' destined canon love-interests in the comics.

 

Well Laurel was "destined" to be the Black Canary, so there is that. 

 

People are overreacting to Iris. She didn't even say anything wrong to Linda. She was trying to help. I liked that Linda was smart enough to figure it out. But at least now both Barry and Iris can move on. (Since apparently these BFFs never had a discussion about the Confession, or Linda.)

 

It was a bit egotistical  and obnoxious to tell Linda about an "unrequited love"  of Barry's when  she knows its her. It puts her in a bad light especially when the real reason Barry was running out on Linda was work/Flash business. It comes off completely off topic and seems just a way to ruin things between Barry and Linda. Do I hate Iris now, not at all but I fear this could be the start of her downspiral. I understand they are trying to parallel Linda to Iris (showing that Barry has a type or something) but its also very dangerous, with Linda being another reporter, WOC, canonical Flash love interest. Linda came off really likable in this episode and "Lois Lane" like to me, some people might just start preferring B/L over B/I. Linda  makes Iris look easily replaceable. Smallville ran into the same problem with Chloe/Lois, two characters who filled a similar niche. Not to mention it was really weird that they had Barry officially referring to Joe as his foster dad, pretty much putting Iris in the position of a foster sister. Its one thing to deduce it from their relationship/s and another for the characters to confirm it.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Conell

[miracole]

During this episode this song from Tiny Toons kept popping into my head. Triangle man. Triangle man. Triangle man meets Particle man. They have a fight, Triangle wins. Triangle man. 

 

Cisco gets more time with Iris' dad then she does, nice...

 

Don't  like the way they're not letting Iris share with anyone how she's feeling. Barry didn't tell Iris he loved her and then she turned him down and then got with Eddie. Barry didn't tell Iris he loved her romantically until she was in a very serious relationship with someone, that's not fair on his part. Also they're talking about Barry not having been in a serious relationship before because of his feelings for Iris. But if they are besties like they talk about being(wish they'd show it more) then it would seem to me that they would have always been tied at the hip making it hard for Iris to have had a serious relationship before Eddie also.  In fact it would make sense that she and Eddie got so close only because Barry was out of commission.

 

Ha! at the "cool girl" comment.

 

 

[wingster55]

In fact it would make sense that she and Eddie got so close only because Barry was out of commission.

 

I've always assumed this was the case. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I still think they should have made Ronnie/Stein go more than 30 miles away from Central City -- because I would think there would be some other housing/small towns within the miles wide blast zone.  And then there is the teeny tiny issue of fallout -- black rain falling downwind of the explosion would kill even more people eventually.  They really should have found a deep cave for Ronnie/Stein to go kaboom in.

[CaughtOnTape]

I know I'm not supposed to, but I get more chemistry from Barry and Caitlin then I do from Barry and Iris.

[Actionmage]

I do have to admit to being sad that the first seeds were planted for the eventual destruction of Team Flash as we know it.

 

benteen, I don't see where there has to be an inevitable break-up of the team. Yes, Harrison is shadier than an oak, but just because Caitlin told him where one of her boundaries was and Cisco is learning about how to heroes aren't perfect, that doesn't mean the team has to break up. At least, not until the murder/whatever of Simon Stagg comes to light and the prison. Plus, the gov'ment could come in and handwave everything away and draft Team Flash into making an actual facility for metas that they oversee.

 

PS-- Welcome Malese! You and Linda looked like you had some fun.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Actionmage

[Primetimer]

The S.T.A.R. team races to separate Stein and Ronnie before Central City goes up in flames.

Read the story

[Xenith22]

Central City must be in its own weird weather ecosphere - snow on the ground in one scene, summer in the next, a tree turning fall colors in another, etc.  Blame it on the particle accelerator, I guess.

Or the Weather Wizard is not really dead and is off honing his powers somewhere in the city :)

 

The "middle of nowhere" is just 30 miles outside the city? Ha! No.

Yeah...on the one hand an blast 5x the strength of the atomic bomb would still only effect about a 20 mile radius...so the city would technically be safe, the odds of finding a spot where all 20 miles of that radius are completely uninhabited seem pretty dam slim.  So while damage was minimized there should still be some casualties and burn victims, not to mention all the poor dead and burnt wildlife.  So yeah....

 

I love that Barry can just walk into the newspaper offices off the street.

Well he does have police credentials?  So I don't see them giving him too much trouble as a security threat.

 

People are overreacting to Iris. She didn't even say anything wrong to Linda. She was trying to help.

Yeah, I kind of think she was trying to tell Linda to be be patient with Barry,  but it came out sounding a bit like you are wasting your time right now.   Definitely should have considered her words a bit more carefully...but still pretty low on the Lana/Laurel character scale of making me hate a character.

 

To be honest, I'll be very disappointed if Eddie will turn out to be a villain this season. There's been ZERO hints about such a possibility and he has had no development at all and no real characterization. It would feel like a complete asspull.

At this point given that we know Future Barry was involved, I have to believe that it would be Future Eddie that is the likely villain and not the present version.  So in that case there would not be too much development as he has at least a a decade to go before he would commit such a heinous act.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Xenith22

[manbearpig]

Maybe my least favourite episode so far, as it barely held my attention. The location in the last scene with Barry, Caitlin and Ronnie was stunning though. The scene with the pepper was laughably bad. Like something you'd expect to see on the Disney channel.

[Chicago Redshirt]

With regard to the other blood sample not matching Wells, here are some possibilities that occurred to me:

 

1. There is more than one Reverse Flash, and the other one/another one besides Wells killed Nora Allen. 

2. Wells did the killing, but somehow his DNA changed between the time of the killing and the sample Cisco got. (The Particle Accelerator Did It, or TPADI)

3. Wells did the killing, but Cisco somehow botched the collection or analysis of Wells's DNA.

4. Wells did the killing, and was able to figure out Cisco was running an analysis of DNA and sabotage the results.

 

My money is on 4.

[Sakura12]

Why exactly was Nora Allen killed? What does that accomplish for the killer? I understand the Terminator thinking of killing the mother before the kid is born but Barry was 11 when they did it. Will we find that out, or do I have to with she was killed to give the hero manpain. 

[FurryFury]

Will we find that out, or do I have to with she was killed to give the hero manpain.

 

This is always a given no matter the reason of her death.

[Trini]

I really liked this recap/review that focused on all the cool things that happened NOT related to the relationship drama.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Why exactly was Nora Allen killed? What does that accomplish for the killer? I understand the Terminator thinking of killing the mother before the kid is born but Barry was 11 when they did it. Will we find that out, or do I have to with she was killed to give the hero manpain. 

 

Well, if they follow the line of comics in which Nora Allen was killed, it's essentially manpain-plus. Barry's mother's killing and father's unjust imprisonment led to him being interested in the inexplicable and the impossible. That led to him being interested in forensic science. And his interest in forensic science led to him being at the right place and the right time when the particle accelerator happened to become the Flash. Reverse Flash in the comics has had various origins. But one of them is he's someone from the future who idolizes the Flash and wants to uncover the secret to the Flash's speed. His experimentation leads him to learn about the Speed Force. Barry is a generator of Speed Force energy. Reverse Flash's experiments lead him to become a siphon of Speed Force energy. But without the Flash inspiring Reverse Flash and generating Speed Force Energy, Reverse Flash can't exist. So Reverse Flash travels back in time to try to set in motion the conditions for Flash to become the Flash and enable his own existence.

 

[John Ramos]

Ridiculous ending. If Stein wanted to protect people, travelling 30-odd miles away to detonate on the surface is still going to kill thousands. He should have found a deep tunnel or abandoned mineshaft. An underground nuclear detonation kills no one.

 

I only noticed this on second viewing, but Ronnie/Stein had a gun; it seemed like he was planning to kill himself rather than detonate before Caitlin showed up and gave him a third option.

[ribboninthesky1]

I really liked this recap/review that focused on all the cool things that happened NOT related to the relationship drama.

 

Thanks for sharing.  I agree with the recap that this episode worked because Flash/Barry was the least interesting thing about it.  And I gotta say, knowing zip about Robbie Amell before this episode, he's definitely the more talented actor vs his cousin, if we're making comparisons.  This is also the first episode I actually liked Cisco, who previously reminded me of an annoying little brother who tries too hard and isn't as funny as he believes.  This is a Cisco I can get on board with. 

 

I still think Joe is kind of an ass - that much hasn't changed from earlier in the season.      

 

God bless Candice Patton - she deserves better than this show.  ETA: I agree with whoever said upthread that Iris not investigating "the burning man" was even more absurd than the trite "relationship" drama. 

 

I didn't see the big deal with what Iris said, and didn't understand all of the angst around two damn dates.  Linda and Barry were equally annoying in that regard - Linda for being a bit of a hypocrite about "work interrupting the date" thing as well as aggressively pouncing on him during date two when he was clearly uncomfortable, and Barry acting like she's the last woman on Earth he'll get to date.  Ugh, shut up, BOTH of you.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[Bandolero]

Iris was way out of bounds. If one of my friends told my personal business to someone I was dating like that, I would be WAY pissed off. Talk about sabotage. And to make matters worse, she's the person Barry is supposedly trying to get over... how obnoxious. It is so obvious that she is not happy that Barry is moving on. Barry was on point for confronting her. You should be able to trust that your BFF has your back at all times. 

[Sakura12]

Linda wasn't upset about the work interrupting their date. She was upset that he lied about being at work when he wasn't (at the work she knows about). She was fine with going out with again when went to make it up to her after leaving her with her shirt off at his house. Then he got another call and lied about it being police business when it wasn't then, Iris not so subtly told Linda, Barry was in love with her. All of that is what made Linda decide to break it off with him. Which is completely understandable to me. 

 

Iris should not have said any of that to a woman that Barry is trying to date. That was her sudden jealousy speaking and passive aggressively sabotaging the relationship. They need to make Iris a character that stands on her own without Barry before just putting them together. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by Sakura12

[ribboninthesky1]

Linda wasn't upset about the work interrupting their date. She was upset that he lied about being at work when he wasn't (at the work she knows about). She was fine with going out with again when went to make it up to her after leaving her with her shirt off at his house. Then he got another call and lied about it being police business when it wasn't then, Iris not so subtly told Linda, Barry was in love with her. All of that is what made Linda decide to break it off with him. Which is completely understandable to me. 

 

That is not quite how it played out on the show.  Linda/Barry have their first date, and they agree on a second date.  Linda comes over for the 2nd date, and they end up on the couch.  Barry goes vibraty, stops and expresses concerns about going too fast/taking it show, and Linda shoves him back down on the couch.  Because she doesn't like slow, and apparently it doesn't matter if Barry is uncomfortable (that shit bugged the hell out of me, especially because if the genders were switched, the insensitivity of the aggressor would have been called out).

 

Barry gets a text, says it's important and time sensitive, and quickly leaves. Barry shows up to see Linda on the job, she lectures him using sports metaphors, how her time is precious, and questions if he's worth it.  Barry babbles on to this relative stranger about how something important came up, but it's not more important than her! He gets another text, claims work emergency, and wants to talk later; she responds she that she's not going anywhere...yet.  Iris arrives on the scene, and Linda approaches her about how bad/good Barry is at dating and interrogates Iris about his love life.  Iris kind of begs off at first, but Linda presses the issue about previous girlfriends, and Iris (not knowing the details of their dates) goes into the "maybe he's not ready yet because of unrequited love" spiel and to give him time. Linda calls Barry's job despite having his cell number, for some reason, and then calls his phone to tell him she knows he lied about work, but that's okay, she thinks they should go no further because Barry's not over Iris.  She doesn't ASK him about his feelings for Iris, she assumes, and wants to call it.  

         

I know what the show was going for with Iris' unrequited love spiel, but given how Barry played a rather undermining game for months with her relationship with Eddie, up to and including confessing his "love" when she's about to move in with her boyfriend, I just can't get that upset about what she said.  Ultimately, it felt like Linda was already displeased with Barry because of the way he left the 2nd date; Barry's alter-ego activities and lying further shot him in the foot. I was supposed to think it was Iris telling Linda about unrequited love, yet I didn't see it that way. Especially because I thought Linda overreacted about an interrupted 2nd date in the first place.      

 

I thought it was funny that Sam's "Stay with Me" was playing in the background during the sexy times.  I like the song, but it's not exactly a positive message.

Edited February 12, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[Shanna]

I think what iris said kind of made up Linda's mind. You could see her ' I don't want to get in the middle of this mess' wheels turning! Iris should have stopped talking or been super vague and supportive. I think I said earlier the thing that saved it is that 1. I think she legit just babbled without really realizing what she was doing so there was no malice and 2. Barry called her on it and they moved on. That all worked fine for me. Mostly I just am worried they are going to the Now that you are with someone else I'm interested place which I tend to hate.

Linda called Barry's work because she is a reporter! She smelled something fishy and tracked it down. Normally that would annoy me but since Barry kept being sketchy when he took off I'll allow it.

How funny how people see things differently ribboninthesky, because I though Robbie's acting was pretty terrible. I think I liked him better when his face was covered in hair and all he did was grunt!

[ribboninthesky1]

Hee, Shanna! Well, Stephen Amell makes a block of wood seem animated, IMO, so talented isn't that high of a bar in comparison. I thought Robbie did a better job outside of the awful wig, heh.

 

I know exactly what they're doing with Iris and Barry's "romance," stupid as it is, but I've never been invested in them as a couple anyway.  In early episode threads, I expressed my disdain for Barry often, so need to rehash.  If it were up to me, Iris would be on a completely different show.    

[phoenics]

I do not agree that Caitlin has been defined by Robbie at all. This episode was focused on it but most of the show has not been. I don't know what they're doing with firestorm but I think it would be a damn shame if they took a step back from treating Caitlin as her own character if Robbie gets included in more scenes.

All of Caitlin's emotional scenes for the most part have been centered around Robbie. We haven't heard her talk about her career exce(pin how it relates to being on Team Flash - even how she was set up on Team Flash is as a mother hen because of what happened to her fiancé. I mean - that's not necessarily a bad thing - but Caitlin has been characterized by only 2 things: 1) her relationship with Ronnie and 2) being on Team Flash. Aside from that we know nothing else about her really.

Cisco has gotten better development honestly - none of his development has been about a woman or a romantic relationship.

Just because she's part of the team doesn't mean that all of her emotional beats (save the ship bait an episode back) haven't revolved around Ronnie - and even in the ship tease episode, that revolved around Barry.

Man - the CW really doesn't know how to write strong women do they? At least not with comics.

Maybe this is an issue with comic book writers.

I think I'm going to go and look at the episodes with David Nutter producing/directing/writing and see if the women come off any better - he's usually amazing at writing for women.

Edited February 12, 2015 by phoenics

[driedfruit]

It was a bit egotistical  and obnoxious to tell Linda about an "unrequited love"  of Barry's when  she knows its her. It puts her in a bad light especially when the real reason Barry was running out on Linda was work/Flash business.

 

Iris doesn't know about Flash business, so it's natural for her assume that if Barry is blowing off Linda it's probably because of his thing for her.

[lilithred]

Oh, FFS. I don't think Iris was in the wrong last night, but even if she was, so what? She's human. She's allowed to make mistakes and say and do dumb things based on messy, confusing emotions. I don't want a female protagonist who's supposed to be portrayed as being perfect or in the right all the time. Goodness. Let her live. 

 

Besides, given all the emotionally manipulative actions Barry has taken against Iris, I'd say they are quite even now. I don't hate either of them. I don't have a real problem with any of their actions. Neither of them came off looking fantastic after this episode, but that's okay. That is what makes them interesting to me.

[phoenics]

I think fandom can be unreasonable sometimes in expecting the female love interest to be perfect. If they are flawed in any way or exptress anger, hurt or pain, or do something that is deemed wrong, they are skewered. Meanwhile, the male love interest (lead, lol) can do all kinds of chicanery and it's excused.

Edited February 12, 2015 by phoenics

[Shanna]

All of Caitlin's emotional scenes for the most part have been centered around Robbie. We haven't heard her talk about her career exce(pin how it relates to being on Team Flash - even how she was set up on Team Flash is as a mother hen because of what happened to her fiancé. I mean - that's not necessarily a bad thing - but Caitlin has been characterized by only 2 things: 1) her relationship with Ronnie and 2) being on Team Flash.

I think we got a few emotional beats in the first season about robbie, but I am not throwing all of her team flash interactions in that category. She has her friendly relationship with Barry and Cisco, and felicity actually! And her boss/mentor thing with wells. And her general science stuff. And her visit to starling and interactions there. None of that is about Robbie. We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Also I adore Stephen Amell and think he's much better then Robbie. Ymmv.

On Barry, I've had my issues with him earlier in the season but he didn't do anything that bothered me this episode. I thought all his stuff with Linda was cute and his talk with iris was valid.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Shanna

[phoenics]

I don't count Team Flash because it's the same as Cisco, Wells and Barry - it's not really additional development, imo. She's just there helping The Flash. And again - as I said - when she's in mother hen mode there it's clearly depicted as her doing that BECAUSE of Ronnie.

And when she's been to Starling City it's the same (all about The Flash).

And her interactions with Felicity were painful - sorry - DP just comes off poorly there because it becomes obvious that she's trying too hard to be another Felicity, when Caitlin just isn't. Iris' interactions with Felicity have been much more natural.

[ribboninthesky1]

Iris doesn't know about Flash business, so it's natural for her assume that if Barry is blowing off Linda it's probably because of his thing for her.

 

Right? Yet more confirmation that Iris should have been told a long time ago.  If she knew Barry was The Flash, she could have covered for him.   

[Shanna]

Right? Yet more confirmation that Iris should have been told a long time ago. If she knew Barry was The Flash, she could have covered for him.

Truth. Although even not knowing she could have done a better job than she did!

I'm still shocked there was zero fallout from the flash picture last week. Does iris just have that in her backpocket in case the boss starts to think about firing her?

Edited February 12, 2015 by Shanna

[Trini]

I'm still shocked there was zero fallout from the flash picture last week. Does iris just have that in her backpocket in case the boss starts to think about firing her?

 

What do you mean? The picture was on the front page of the newspaper by the end of last week's episode.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Trini

[Shanna]

What do you mean? The picture was on the front page of the newspaper by the end of last week's episode.

It was???? I didn't see that at all.

Well then I have new issues.

[Xander]

It was???? I didn't see that at all.

Well then I have new issues.

Barry's dad showed him the paper before talking about the Flash. 

[Bandolero]

Re: Iris. Yep we all make mistakes but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be called out on it when we do. I thought Barry was a dick (and I said it) for waiting until Iris was in a serious relationship to reveal his feelings and it was a dick move for Iris to say what she said. Has nothing to do with their gender.

 

Frankly I am tired of the love triangles... so tired. 

Edited February 13, 2015 by Bandolero

[ribboninthesky1]

I disagree with equating the two situations - Barry spent months undermining Iris' relationship with Eddie, and then goes full court press with the love confession just as she's about to move in with her boyfriend.  Despite having well over a decade to tell Iris the truth of his feelings.  And as far as we know, Iris wasn't inadvertently sabotaging her own love life because of her clandestine activities and associated lies.  Now I get it, and don't expect Barry to tell a woman he'd been on one date with that he's the Flash and could be gone at a moment's notice.  But Iris' explanation to Linda, who had all of one successful date, and a bruised ego over an interrupted 2nd date, of Barry's odd behavior as a response to an unrequited crush and to give him time is 1) not that out of left field, and 2) not at all the same as Iris being in a committed relationship with someone to the extent that they moved in together.  It's just not.

 

Barry accused Iris of going out of her way to sabotage his "relationship," when he was doing a pretty damn good job of that on his own.  He knew full well going into that 2nd date that he could be called away for Firestorm, and he didn't prepare for it at all, nor did he prep Linda.  Again, not saying he had to tell her everything, but something as vague as "I'm expecting an important call this evening, so the date could be interrupted." Hell, rescheduling the damn thing would have been the adult thing to do.  Life happens, and you deal and adapt. He did neither, which has fuckall to do with Iris and her supposedly passive-aggressive explanation to Linda. 

 

And this is where the show's weak writing always comes into play, and why I'm not buying what they're selling.  They go into teen soap opera mode and have characters acting like they're 16 instead of mid-20s.  Especially Barry.  Linda as well, since no mature woman would be questioning if a man is worth her time after one successful date and one interrupted date that started off quite well.    And certainly not put his friend on the spot by going into interrogation mode about Barry's former love life and girlfriends.  I swear these writers are so very clueless.

 

Candice Patton, you're the primary reason I'm hanging around, and that may not be enough.         

Edited February 13, 2015 by ribboninthesky1

[cynic]

Yeah, it's hard for me to get worked up by Iris' faux pas, considering the dick moves Barry had been pulling. But then, I actually like that they're both flawed and human. I don't mind that Barry took her to task, but I kinda hope that after she discovers his secret that she also calls him out on his questionable behavior.

Edited February 13, 2015 by cynic

[Chicago Redshirt]

On further reflection, I suppose at least some of this should be put on Linda's (lovely) shoulders.

 

She knows that Barry works for the police department as a CSI. So one would think it's actually plausible he would be called off at a moment's notice.

 

She could have talked to Barry about him having to run off to allegedly do police work, and then they could have had an actual adult conversation about that and their expectations.

 

Instead, she chose to involve Iris. Now, I think that asking a third party, "Hey, what's the deal with your friend I'm dating" instead of just asking the friend is probably not the way to go anyway. But I suspect that Linda likely had some inkling of Barry's interest in Iris. "When Harry Met Sally" and all that. So asking Iris was bound to lead to trouble.