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Season 6: All Episodes Talk


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No Brit repairs this year, awesome. Those are some of the best eps but it feels like we are being short changed. Did we ever find out why Lauren Graham was scrapped last year? I really enjoyed the Julie Chen episode. Nice to go someplace completely different.

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So glad this show is back!  Even though Julie Chen isn't a favorite "celeb" of mine, but I love learning about pre-WW 2 China.  The political uphevals and revolutions have always intrigued me. Loved seeing the little kids at the school the grandfather founded. 

 

I think it's very telling that Julie Chen assumed the school would be falling apart and be in poor shape, and how surprised she was to see it in wonderful condition.  There is such a level of respect and responsibility around education in China, so I am not surprised at how clean, fresh and organized the school looked.

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I thought the Julie Chen episode was a little odd, or at least her conclusion regarding her grandfather's 'improper' childhood. Her grandfather died 55 years ago, and although they never did say how old he was when he died, I would assume he was likely at least 60 to accumulate so many wives and children and accomplish what he did. In any case he was likely born around the turn of the century (if not earlier) so to have to go to work at 13 would hardly have been unusual. It isn't like children then had the type of childhoods that kids have had for the last half dozen decades where they are often coddled into young adulthood. Yes, he likely did have privileged life up until his father lost his job, but I doubt going to work at 13 would have been considered an 'improper' childhood in the early part of the century. In any country.

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(edited)

I thought the Julie Chen episode was a little odd, or at least her conclusion regarding her grandfather's 'improper' childhood. Her grandfather died 55 years ago, and although they never did say how old he was when he died, I would assume he was likely at least 60 to accumulate so many wives and children and accomplish what he did. In any case he was likely born around the turn of the century (if not earlier) so to have to go to work at 13 would hardly have been unusual. It isn't like children then had the type of childhoods that kids have had for the last half dozen decades where they are often coddled into young adulthood. Yes, he likely did have privileged life up until his father lost his job, but I doubt going to work at 13 would have been considered an 'improper' childhood in the early part of the century. In any country.

 

But considering that Julie's great-grandfather was a scholar, leaving school at 13 for her grandfather would be like a child of a professor/PhD grad going to work directly from high school.  It's something that is not typically done. 

Edited by PRgal
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(edited)

But considering that Julie's great-grandfather was a scholar, leaving school at 13 for her grandfather would be like a child of a professor/PhD grad going to work directly from high school. It's something that is not typically done.

 

Considering her great grandfather lost his job and then died, I doubt it was that unusual at all. There would not have been the access to grants, school loans, etc. that there is in this day and age. We are talking about 90 - 100 years ago. In any case 'improper' childhood does not seem to be a word that would be used for such a situation, even when his obit was written in 1960. I don't think she actually uncovered the reason for the phrase 'improper' childhood to be used.

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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Honestly I'd chalk it up to a bad translation and then Julie running with it. That guy's English probably wasn't able to convey the nuances of whatever was said in Chinese (Mandarin? Canto? Hokkien? Not sure) in that newspaper. 

Edited by RococoChanel
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I was guessing that 'improper' may have been a nod to his imperial background, which might not have been so revered under Mao (when he died).  But yeah, clearly something was lost in translation.

 

I got a huge kick out of the older cousin humping it up that hill with her yoke full of stuff, not even out of breath, and pilates-toned Julie having a struggle. Small victories over the rich and glamorous, I suppose.  For all of its symbolism, the paper they were leaving around the tomb just looked like litter. Made me twitch. Campsite rule, people!

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Ha, I loved that the translator said, "Your grandfather is her uncle," and then Julie said, "So she's my first cousin once removed," and then the chyron said, "Julie's distant cousin." First cousin once removed isn't distant!

 

As much as I enjoy the trips around America and Europe, it was nice to see an episode that led to Asia. They really lucked out with her grandfather being famous enough to find references to him in the newspaper and in a scholarly journal. Like Julie, I was born here and my parents were immigrants. When my aunt went back to China about ten years ago, she went back to my grandfather's village but she wasn't able to find any records. All the information she has about that part of our family is whatever my grandfather told her before he died.

 

I think that's one of the reasons I love watching shows like this because I know that the chances of me being able to trace back any further than my great grandparents is almost non-existent, so I have to live vicariously through everyone else's geneology research.

 

On a related note, I was cracking up when Julie and the librarian were explaining how to use the microfilm machine. I remember having to use one in college because not all of the old newspapers had been digitized yet. There are still some that aren't available online but I still think of both microfilm and microfiche as normal things that people know how to use. Then I remembered that the average person doesn't even go to the library anymore.

 

Man, that was quite a trek to reach her great grandfather's grave. And to think we complain when we have to stop at the cemetery information office to ask for a grave location.

 

According to my math (he was 68 when he died in 1960 according to the Straits Time obituary so he was born in 1892), it was 1905 when her grandfather got a job as a 13 year old, which is the same year that the imperial exams were abolished so that makes sense. His father lost his job and the exams were no longer being used to determine eligibility for government jobs, which meant his intended route to employment no longer existed. The logical choice was to get a job which would give him experience that he could turn into his own career. And keep in mind that this was a confusing time of civil unrest and reform (the government solicited suggestions for reform, briefly enacted some, then called them off and executed the reformers). Getting a job to earn money and help support his mother would have been considered his filial duty (although hopefully his older brothers were also contributing).

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Ha, I loved that the translator said, "Your grandfather is her uncle," and then Julie said, "So she's my first cousin once removed," and then the chyron said, "Julie's distant cousin." First cousin once removed isn't distant!

I ran that back like three times because it amused me.   A first cousin once removed is a very close relative in the grand scheme of things.   I was surprised that the cousin couldn't tell her more about her great-grandfather as that was her own Grandfather and most people who are interested in family history (and she seemed to be) have gotten some information about their grandparents from their parents.   

 

I particularly enjoyed the part where she packmuled everything up the mountain and we saw nobody offering to help her carry her load.  I assume they did off camera and they refused,  But it seemed odd to me this little old lady carrying all the stuff while her much younger cousin and several younger men followed.   

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I wonder if she knew plenty but wasn't going to share it on television.  Not sure what the current Communist Party rhetoric is about former Imperial appointees, but she might have been better off just being vague (or sharing things off camera) about admiring the intellectual/entrepreneurial branch of the family.  Especially if there was a government representative "supervising" the filming. 

 

 Likewise, the show might have steered clear of the political in order to retain access for future shows.  And I don't necessarily mind that, because whatever glimpses we get are fascinating (not to mention the countryside is gorgeous). 

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I ran that back like three times because it amused me.   A first cousin once removed is a very close relative in the grand scheme of things.   I was surprised that the cousin couldn't tell her more about her great-grandfather as that was her own Grandfather and most people who are interested in family history (and she seemed to be) have gotten some information about their grandparents from their parents.   

 

I particularly enjoyed the part where she packmuled everything up the mountain and we saw nobody offering to help her carry her load.  I assume they did off camera and they refused,  But it seemed odd to me this little old lady carrying all the stuff while her much younger cousin and several younger men followed.   

 

There might have been language issues that prevented the communication.  I speak fairly decent Cantonese and still have trouble getting my more distant relatives to talk about family.  I know very little beyond what my parents are able to tell me!  I don't know how good Julie's Mandarin is, but even if she speaks the language fairly well, as an American, there are cultural and language differences that can get lost.  My parents refer to some relatives as aunts and uncles, but they are, in reality cousins once removed.  In Chinese, relatives one generation older is always uncle/aunt.  My official title in Cantonese to my first cousin's daughters is cousin-aunt.

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Josh's family history was interesting and he's clearly a bright guy but gah was he boring.  I had a hard time staying focused.  I did like how engaged he was and how thoughtful his questions were.

 

Waiting for Sean Hayes' episode.

 

Overall I can't say the group this season excites me. 

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Josh isn't a personal interest for me, but I thought it was cool that he could trace his lineage back so far and have written records.  Same thing with Julie Chen last week, because IIRC, on the Gates' show with Ming, the Chinese Communists destroyed a ton of records.  What I find bad about this show has nothing to do with the celebs, but it's that I record it and, after FF through ads and rehashing of what just happened (do they expect watchers to have amnesia between commercial breaks?) it amounts to about 34 minutes of content.  I could have sworn it was more in depth in earlier seasons.

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I like Josh Groban, but found his episode fairly boring.  One of his ancestors went to college, and the other was a deacon, and that is about all I got out of it.  

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I like Josh Groban, but found his episode fairly boring.  One of his ancestors went to college, and the other was a deacon, and that is about all I got out of it.  

That was the same ancestor, actually, Johan Jacob Zimmermann :) 

 

I liked this episode; Zimmerman(n) is a fairly common surname here in Pennsylvania due to the influx of Germans seeking religious freedom, so it was interesting to me to see some of that history come to life, so to speak.  I also geeked out over Josh's ancestor being mentioned in a book by none other than Isaac Newton--how cool is that?!??

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See, that tells you how interesting I found it... ha ha!  I kind of wondered if they were the same, but he had also mentioned the grandfather above that one so assumed one of them was that grandfather.

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I have an affection for the roots of names, so here's my moment of geek: Zimmerman means 'Room Man', or basically what we'd call a carpenter. Also, when Josh asked what Johan's dad did, the historian said he was a cooper at a hospital, and explained that as craftsman. A cooper is a barrel maker, which is something hospitals needed back before running water. He would have had woodworking and metalworking skills. Which is crafty indeed.

 

Josh should start a campaign to rename Halley's comet "Zimmerman's Comet." ;) He could write a song!

 

I like Josh in general; I think he's talented and kinda goofy/earnest. It would not have killed him to do a little grooming on that face-pelt, however.

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That was the same ancestor, actually, Johan Jacob Zimmermann :) 

 

I liked this episode; Zimmerman(n) is a fairly common surname here in Pennsylvania due to the influx of Germans seeking religious freedom, so it was interesting to me to see some of that history come to life, so to speak.  I also geeked out over Josh's ancestor being mentioned in a book by none other than Isaac Newton--how cool is that?!??

And not just any book by Newton, but his Principia, which sets out the whichness of what that is the start of Newtonian Physics.

 

They didn't dive all that deeply into it, but JJZ sounds like a thinking and reasoning man, who couldn't shut his eyes and enjoy his very good position in the status quo.  Religion couldn't be casual in those centuries, and being up close and personal (i.e., inside the church hierarchy, albeit at a lower level) would definitely expose you to any institutionalized corruption.  Then you either go along to get along, leave, or rebel.

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Then you either go along to get along, leave, or rebel.

Makes you wonder what kind of man he would have become, and the life he would have built, if he had lived and made it to Pennsylvania. 

 

 

It would not have killed him to do a little grooming on that face-pelt, however.

Josh tweeted that he had obtained full beardage at that point. So I'm thinking he has since shaved!

 

My dad's mom's side of the family came over from Germany to Pennsylvania in the mid-1700s so this episode was interesting to me. I need to go back into my Ancestry tree and look at some of the city names again, maybe do some more digging.

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I had had no real interest in Mr. Groban's career,etc. but I found his ancestors' story interesting. One thing that barely got touched upon was the fact that his maternal grandfather appears to have changed his surname from 'Johnson' to 'Johnston' and there was no speculation as to why. I had an ancestor who did took an unpronounced 'e' out of their surname -evidently due to him starting a business but not wanting his clients to mistake him for his father who had the same first name.

     As for Johan Jacob Zimmerman? He sounds quite fascinating- if for no other reason than he was able to get a very thorough education in a time and place where folks born into a laboring [even 'skilled'] families were somewhat discouraged. How did he get into the University? How was the education funded? Even if these questions' answers have been lost to historical record, the fact that he did get educated was quite impressive. Also, after all the literal tossing about that happened re his 'revelations' after Halley's Comet, how was his widow and children able to make the transatlantic voyage to Pennsylvania and did the widow have no family left of her own to help her out in Germany? From the marriage license, it appears her father was already deceased at the time of the marriage to Johan but what about other relatives? And did she somehow provide for her fatherless offspring on her own in the newly settled Pennsylvania colony  or did she eventually remarry another settler?  Ironic ending to Johan dying the same year he predicted the Apocalypse.

   I'm not sure Mr. Groban's interested but the late Ethel Merman's original surname was Zimmerman so perhaps they may have been distant cousins.

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the late Ethel Merman's original surname was Zimmerman so perhaps they may have been distant cousins.

 

Bob Dylan's real last name is Zimmerman, too. But since it's a surname based on occupation, the likelihood of being related is small. (This is why there are so many unrelated people named Smith.)

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Definitely sang that little ditty several times during the episode!

 

I found it interesting, but like Blergh, thought the story of how his xtimes great grandmother managed with small children in a new land halfway across the world would have been a compelling story.  Now, maybe they were joining family already there, but that was quasi wilderness they were going into -- they may have had the fare to get there... but what then?  A quick marriage to some guy who just lost his wife?  Can you imagine being on that ship, traveling over, knowing you'd have to line somebody up pronto, with no idea of who/what might have been available?  Especially if you were headed into farming country and your late husband was an intellectual?  

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If JJZ died in Rotterdam, which is and was a major port in the Netherlands, one can infer (well, I infer) that the family was on its way to Pennsylvania.  As the one guy said, Penn was the Promised Land for people who were religiously "incorrect".  And the Netherlands was also a place of tolerance, which is why the Puritans spent a dozen years there before moving to North America (as far as the Puritans were concerned, too much tolerance - their kids were becoming more Dutch than English).  So the Zimmerman family may have been living there, and the widow could have decided to take the chance and sail to America.  The opportunities for a widow with children would be better on a frontier. 

 

Anyway, one can infer (and I do infer) that JJZ had planned to take his family across the Atlantic, or just wore out in Rotterdam.  It takes a great deal of personal integrity to throw away not just your livelihood and safety, but that of your children, to live according to your own sense of what is morally correct.  The unending stress would be brutal.

 

Something we Americans with our First Amendment freedoms really don't appreciate is that your religion really mattered, that just about every city, duchy, stadt, or whatever governmental entity was in charge of that geographical place, had an official religion, and would in varying but very limited amounts tolerate others, while taxing the hell out of them, restricting their neighborhoods, restricting their right to own property, restricting professions, restricting clothing, doing anything that could be oppressive solely because it was the wrong religion.  For that matter, unless you were a citizen of that locality, your rights were restricted as well.

 

As for adding a T to Johnson, it could have been a correction, or it could have been a way to distinguish that family within what is a large population of Johnsons in this country.  Certain of my great-grandfather's siblings had their name changed from Jensen to Johnson when they immigrated.  They weren't told until it was too late that they didn't have to do that.  As the rest of the eleven siblings came over, they held their ground, spelling Jensen for officialdom as necessary.

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Bob Dylan's real last name is Zimmerman, too. But since it's a surname based on occupation, the likelihood of being related is small. (This is why there are so many unrelated people named Smith.)

 

Also add to that the fact that Bob Dylan's heritage is Jewish while the Zimmerman side of Josh Groban's family is not.

I like Josh Groban, but found his episode fairly boring.  One of his ancestors went to college, and the other was a deacon, and that is about all I got out of it.  

 

I personally found it fascinating.  Any episode that goes to Europe and doesn't mention the Civil War is aces in my book.  I find that genealogy shows tend to spend an inordinate amount of time on the Civil War and I am saturated with it by now.

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Overall I can't say the group this season excites me. 

 

I have to agree with you there.  One would think they'd have an easier time finding a more interesting group.  At least a more well known group.  Other than Josh Groban, Julie Chen, America Ferrera and Melissa Etheridge I don't really know who any of the celebs are.  Bill Paxton?  Tony Goldwyn?  Angie Harmon?  Sean Hayes?  Maybe I need to get out more?

Edited by Snarklepuss
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I don't really know who any of the celebs are. Bill Paxton? Tony Goldwyn? Angie Harmon? Sean Hayes? Maybe I need to get out more?

You'll probably recognize Bill Paxton once you see him and hear his voice. He's a character actor who has been in a lot of movies and TV shows.

Edited by Cara
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The widow who schlepped 4 kids to the new world only gets a mention?  This is like Cynthia Nixon's relative who was fathered by the prison warden....I wanted to know what happened to her.

 

Overall this was an example why I have always hesitated doing too much research...I am sure my ancestors are whiter and more boring than I fear.

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Dude JJZ made it into Principia.   I really, truly don't care how boring Josh Groban is, that is worth the episode right there.  I'm sure there are a lot of interesting stories about the widow who went to the new world on her own, but women's stories are notoriously hard to track because they aren't the types of stories that make it into the record books.   I suspect there was a very, very, very rich paper trail on JJZ (which we saw) and there were two documents about the wife of JJZ and her life in America.   

 

Also, PRINCIPIA.    

 

I don't really mind who the celebrity is.  I love hearing peoples stories and would watch if it was just normal people off the street.  I know that isn't terribly common so I appreciate that getting the biggest celebs possible is the best way to keep the show going.  But I don't worry about who the celeb is before sitting down to watch an episode.  Some of my favorite episodes have been people I couldn't pick out of a lineup.   And some of my least favorite have been celebs I really like.

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I am sure my ancestors are whiter and more boring than I fear.

Chris O'Dowd says he was asked to do the UK version, and discovered that the O'Dowds had lived in the same 5 mile radius for hundreds of years.  Not so interesting.

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The Lauren Graham episode was scratched because she wouldn't sign the contract. They did all the research on her family and filmed but when it came to signing the contract she balked so they pulled her episode.

That kind of makes you wonder why she wouldn't sign. 

 

I enjoyed Josh's episode.  He seemed fascinated to find out what he did.  My mother's family came over from the Netherlands and Germany around the same time.  Its interesting reading.  The some of the Quakers wanted to fight in the revolution so they coverted to Episcopailian or Methodist and moved to Maryland so they could fight.  My father's side of the family came over in the early 1600's and that one ancestor is rather notorious.  His part of the family has been traced back to England to the 1300's by geneologists.  It is fascinating stuff.  Josh's is interesting because of those published works and the Newton mention. 

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Even though the producers may not have thought it interesting [and, perhaps Mr. Groban didn't], I think there are enough folks who may be interested to see that Johan Jacob's widow Maria Margaretha Schaal Zimmerman DID leave records showing HOW she made her way after arriving in Pennsylvania:

http://hatcherfamilyassn.com/getperson.php?personID=I491&tree=MILLERetal

 

 It appears from this website that not only did she NOT remarry but she'd live to about 81 in 1723 before making her will disposing 70 acress in her OWN name to her surviving three children , though the record of her death date appears to be lost, the will appears to have been probated two years later in 1725. It seems that not only did she appearantly receive 25 acres due her as Johann's widow but even expanded her holdings thereafter.

    Also,from this website, several of her surviving children were grown when she left Germany- and the youngest was ten and she herself was about 51 when Johann died in 1693. Most notably, there was a firstborn son who STAYED in Germany [and would die there four years later]. Now whether he himself had disagreements with one or both his parents and decided to make his own way   or whether he was in the army or some other compulsory organization that prevented him joining the family  but,for whatever reasons,  he did not join the others in Pennsylvania.

Edited by Blergh
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"As for adding a T to Johnson, it could have been a correction, or it could have been a way to distinguish that family within what is a large population of Johnsons in this country.  Certain of my great-grandfather's siblings had their name changed from Jensen to Johnson when they immigrated.  They weren't told until it was too late that they didn't have to do that.  As the rest of the eleven siblings came over, they held their ground, spelling Jensen for officialdom as necessary."

 

My family's name has been butchered 8 ways to Sunday due to it being foreign and they just went with phonetics.  Perhaps German pronunciation was the same.

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The Lauren Graham episode was scratched because she wouldn't sign the contract. They did all the research on her family and filmed but when it came to signing the contract she balked so they pulled her episode.

That kind of makes you wonder why she wouldn't sign. 

 

  True- but it also makes me wonder why the producers/researchers went to all that trouble on Lauren Graham's behalf before they had any guarantees on her end. 

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Chris O'Dowd says he was asked to do the UK version, and discovered that the O'Dowds had lived in the same 5 mile radius for hundreds of years.  Not so interesting.

I always joke that my great grandparents crossed an ocean and half a continent to meet someone from 2 villages over in Norway:-)

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I loved Josh's story.  Man, what a treasure trove of documentation survived!  I was squeeing at home in my living room, while Josh seemed very blase.  That was my problem with this ep. Major stuff, Newton(!!), touching a book that the ancestor had taught from, standing where he saw Halley's Comet, and Josh was acting .... polite. I would have required a Depends.  He must be the mellowest person on earth.  I've seen him on talk shows and he's funny and bright, but I guess not much for squeeing.

 

I don't really know who any of the celebs are. Bill Paxton? Tony Goldwyn? Angie Harmon? Sean Hayes? Maybe I need to get out more?

 

 

Bill Paxton was in Twister, Titanic, and Apollo 13.  I know him best from Big Love, where he played such a tedious, loathsome character that I now flinch a bit when I see him on screen.  Tony Goldwyn is somehow related to the Goldwyns who started studios in Hollywood.  The first time I ever saw him was in Ghost, in which he played a despicable character too well; I can never get that person out of my mind and it would take him rescuing my cat from a burning building for me to warm up to him.  (Same issue with Gary Cole, who did too good a job in Fatal Vision.)  Sean Hayes was the flamboyant best friend in Will & Grace and he's from Chicago, so I've heard good things about him.  Angie Harmon?  Got me there.

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Angie Harmon is one of the leads on Rizzoli and Isles. She plays Jane Rizzoli. Sean Hayes played Jack on Will and Grace and went to the same high school that I did. He was a year ahead of me, however, with 2000 students in the building we never crossed paths. Tony Goldwyn plays President Fitz Grant on Scandal and is the grandson of the late Sam Goldwyn (founding contributor and executive of several motion picture studios in Hollywood).

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My first thought for Paxton, no matter what else he does, is Chet, the obnoxious older brother in Weird Science.  Angie Harmon had a run on Law & Order for quite a while, too.

 

Josh Groban irritated me with his lack of enthusiasm.  The only real emotion he showed was when he called Johan crazy.  I had the fleeting thought during his intro-bio that the only reason he'd agreed to do the show was if they included the plug for his charity, and the rest seemed to be going through the motions.

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Angie Harmon is one of the leads on Rizzoli and Isles. She plays Jane Rizzoli.

Angie Harmon was also ADA Abbie Carmichael on Law and Order (original flavor), as well as in Law and Order SVU.

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My first thought for Paxton, no matter what else he does, is Chet, the obnoxious older brother in Weird Science.

He will always be the guy who said, "But first I'd like to butter your muffin" (which was hilariously changed to "But first I'd like to better know you, muffin" for tv).

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I always joke that my great grandparents crossed an ocean and half a continent to meet someone from 2 villages over in Norway:-)

 

This happened in my family also - there's a whole pile of Norwegians in a small area of MN with that exact experience.

 

I think Groban and his family are intellectuals who aren't emotional - I noticed his restraint throughout his episode, whereas I would have been very emotional at the kind of discoveries he experienced.

 

 

Certain of my great-grandfather's siblings had their name changed from Jensen to Johnson when they immigrated.

 

Scandinavians veered between "...sens" and "sons" when they arrived in the US. For example "Larsen" became "Larson." Also, in my family they completely changed a surname because the family had a religious schism in the 1800s.

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