S05.E10: House Of Cards

[sistermagpie]

Kyle is the one who said on WWHL that if she knew it was for wine tasting she would never have put her sister in this situation.  To me that "never have put her sister in this situation" tells me she believed it was wrong.

 

 

But she said that on the show so I don't get where she's changing her story. She has always said that she knew there was a wine thing, but thought it was a wine pairing with lunch. The problem with it just being a wine tasting is that a wine tasting leaves Kim with nothing to do. A wine pairing would be little different than every meal we see on the show where everyone drinks a lot with their meal and Kim drinks something without alcohol.

[haydensterling]

Okay, so I finally watched the episode and read the thread--I know we can just jump in here but thanks to all those who shared stories of addiction, whether personal or in the family.

 

I think that was one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever seen on television.  From the second Kim got in the car, it was plain she was blasted on something.  Perhaps a few things.  Did anyone notice that while Kim and Lisa R. were in the car together Lisa had either just said 'You're a tough bitch' or 'You're a good girl'--can't recall which--Kim sort of kicks her leg in Lisa's direction?  She was acting so aggressively that it flipped me out.  I give tons of props to Lisa R. for being in that car with her, because Kim was downright scary.  I've actually never seen Kim as anything other than an annoying chucklehead, but that was a ready to fight, nasty, messed up woman.  Over at TWoP I was always saying that Kim was way more than an alcoholic.  There's no way that she just has a problem with booze.  She has a problem with opiates and a problem with benzos and a problem with whatever she can get her hands on.  It shocked me to see her being so fucking off the wall, though, and I wonder what she had been taking or if it was just the added stress of Monty that was making her act out that way.  TBH I have a feeling she's done that kind of thing way more than we've been privy to and it was all left on the cutting room floor.   She was vicious on Game Night, but this completely topped Game Night, IMO.  

 

I feel for Kyle in a big way, and in keeping with my general feelings about the Richards sisters, I've actually never seen Kyle as anything other than a mouthy asshole.  Her palpable confusion and growing fear while sitting at that poker table--unreal.  You could almost feel her terror.  She looked scared to death.  I can't imagine what was going through her head in those moments and there's no way I'm going to judge her.  What the hell was Kim implying with the goddamned case the cigar she was smoking came in?  That flipped me out too.  Was this when Kyle got up from the table to go to the bathroom?  I sincerely hope Kyle is in Al-Anon, or this pattern will never end for her or Mo, which is a hellish way to live.  Big Kathy did such a number on those kids' heads.  

I wanted to say that regardless of whether or not this was meant to be a wine tasting or pairing or what the hell ever, Kyle had nothing to do with the setup.  That end of things is production all the way, and the only reason I can speak to that is that I worked in production for Viacom for almost fifteen years, until my anxiety got out of control. Once you're there and in it--as you can see by the photos which show crew crawling all over the place, there is an added pressure on the people being filmed to go through with whatever's happening, whether they're uncomfortable or flipped out or not; it's a trick that producers rely on to get the 'good' shit.

 

Eileen and Vince are saints for putting up with that crap in their home.  I thought Vince was either actively enjoying the shit out of the weirdness, or he's just completely clueless.  I love the way that Eileen is sort of this dispassionate observer of these women--after the Brandi wine toss, she has a tendency to look at them like they're a bunch of stick insects--curious, but ultimately doesn't give a fuck.   She and Lisa R. always look to be floating a bit above it all, and they give a much needed perspective to this season that I really enjoy.  Lisa R. especially, and I sincerely hope that she doesn't get shit on by Kyle for speaking some home truths in that car, as we saw in the preview, though from that brief edit it appeared that Lisa may have been alone in the car when she was talking about addiction, it looked like a wide angle lens that would have picked up Kyle in the shot and I didn't see her, but I have to watch again, as I just caught this episode.

 

I've said this before and I'll say it again.  Kim needs to be off this show yesterday.  She'd probably relapse in a big way and make it all about Bravo, but they need to get her off the air.  A reality show is no place for an addict.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Being an alcoholic myself it is really easy to feel like AA gets the introduction wrong, that I should be saying my name is Addict and I used to be Tracie. You start to believe that you're an inherently narcissistic selfish master manipulator who is a thief and a liar incapable of having an identity outside of alcoholism after hearing it enough times -- but part of your treatment is to love yourself and work on you. It's very confusing. Contrary to popular belief I actually hate talking about my own issues but felt it may be relevant here because as frustrating as Kim is I don't think she's bad. Despite all her privileges she had a tough life and I don't think ever felt very good about herself. That's what I meant earlier when I said being friends with Brandi is accessing her self-destructive side. She thinks it's what she deserves. Brandi on the other hand I think has always been told how great she is and substance abuse is making her ego inflate even more. It's like when Umbridge wore the horcrux necklace in Harry Potter.

Edited January 22, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[Misslindsey]

I just assumed that Lisa V has not spent much time with Eileen in smaller groups to get to know her better, as some of the other ladies have. I think most of the time that Lisa V has been around Eileen it has been at parties with all the ladies or in bigger groups where they might not get much one on one time. Though, this is my first season watching RHoBH and VR so I do not know these ladies antics as well.

[copacabana]

Teresa and Melissa from RHoNJ come to mind.  And Tamra and Gretchen on RHoOC.  Both pairs are all 'bitch stole my look' copycat complainers.  I'm sure there are others that I'm not remembering.   Is that who Lisa V wants to be compared to?

 

Right!  Yeah -- thank you.  So freaking stupid.  I'm off to drink my ass off now and pop some pills while I vanquish everyone at poker and get into weird faux acting routines in limos with folks I hardly know.  

 

Lisa V is losing me this season.  Maybe she thinks Vanderpump Rules gives her a life raft if she wants to blow this tiki stand but I wouldn't bank on that.  Brandi's not worth discussing really but Lisa's constant dumb asides towards her don't exactly fit into her whole Lady Lisa routine. 

 

Truth to tell, if I had to hang out with these women year after year after year, I'd be a Lou Reed Berlin wreck of a person too.  

[missyb]

A wine tasting is different from a wine pairing. Kyle was upset that there was an interactive component in the wine tasting( sniffing, twirling , sipping). It sounds like she was told it would be lunch with wines chosen for each course. I don't think she is a liar. 

[Satchels of gold]

Teresa and Melissa from RHoNJ come to mind.  And Tamra and Gretchen on RHoOC.  Both pairs are all 'bitch stole my look' copycat complainers.  I'm sure there are others that I'm not remembering.   Is that who Lisa V wants to be compared to?

And don't forget Carole and Aviva with the reading glasses and Carole and Luanne about the cape. It sticks out in my mind because I thought Carole was above that sort of thing.

[SuzWhat]

It is interesting to me that Brandi is ok with Kim practically mugging her to hang on her neck and kiss her multiple times to say hello, goodbye and just part of apparently "normal" conversation, but was all "don't touch me" to both Lisa and Kyle when they touched her.

 

Lisa's was kind of in just steering her toward the other side when they were splitting up for massages.   Kyle's was more agressive and I would have been pissed if anyone knocked me aside like she did.   However, Brandi's reaction was a little too much.

 

Kind of makes me think she (Brandi) had already made up her mind to get physical if needed for storyline/camera time.

[jnymph]

First off, I will say I don't know a lot about addiction, except for what I see on the show "Intervention."    9 times out of 10 the addicts on that show have had some sort of past trauma.    That got me to think: I wonder what sort of trauma Kim has had in her life.    Because she's showing herself to be a very angry, vindictive person and I can't help but think some sort of abuse set it off at one time.   OTOH, maybe she's a spoiled Hollywood child star that feels entitled to everything.  

 

Either way, she obviously needs a lot of help AND she has to help herself  <- something else I learned from "Intervention"

[Talented Tenth]

Oh, dear God. Brandi's blog is up. Her tweet about it was, "and scene". And it's poorly written, too.

Isn't it supposed to be "END scene"?

 

Brandi implies Kyle drinks too much as well. Which is exactly what Kim accused her of in the limo scene Season 1.

Maybe Kyle does drink a lot, but she hasn't appeared to be out of control on the show, unlike Brandi and Kim.  They can say she drinks a lot, but she doesn't act like them.

[copacabana]

Being an alcoholic myself it is really easy to feel like AA gets the introduction wrong, that I should be saying my name is Addict and I used to be Tracie.

You start to believe that you're an inherently narcissistic selfish master manipulator who is a thief and a liar incapable of having an identity outside of alcoholism after hearing it enough times -- but part of your treatment is to love yourself and work on you. It's very confusing.

 

Contrary to popular belief I actually hate talking about my own issues but felt it may be relevant here because as frustrating as Kim is I don't think she's bad. Despite all her privileges she had a tough life and I don't think ever felt very good about herself. That's what I meant earlier when I said being friends with Brandi is accessing her self-destructive side. She thinks it's what she deserves. Brandi on the other hand I think has always been told how great she is and substance abuse is making her ego inflate even more. It's like when Umbridge wore the horcrux necklace in Harry Potter.

 

Yes, I hear you, and yeah, really, I know because, well, duh.   In my day, in the mid-80s, when so many young people especially were going through the very tough work of cleaning it up, it was unthinkable that it would not be kept private and within the bounds of the community.  Part of me is happy to see this kind of break down.  There are reasons for anonymity that make it possible for folks and the program to survive but that does contribute to the terrible stigma that still exists.  And to the exploitation that goes on. 

 

You put it beautifully in a nutshell.  

 

Right now, I am working on a program that involves saying goodbye to Bravo.  It's going to be tough but I am really sick and tired of being sick and tired about all of these HWs shows.  And I have come to loathe Andy Cohen.  Am happy to report that my first step has been to totally stop watching WWHL. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by copacabana

[RealityTVSmack]

But she said that on the show so I don't get where she's changing her story. She has always said that she knew there was a wine thing, but thought it was a wine pairing with lunch. The problem with it just being a wine tasting is that a wine tasting leaves Kim with nothing to do. A wine pairing would be little different than every meal we see on the show where everyone drinks a lot with their meal and Kim drinks something without alcohol.

They all knew it was a wine tasting segment and not lunch by the location...The Foley Wine Tasting Room.  To say later on WWHL that she wanted to clear things up that she did not know a wine tasting was to be filmed was disingenuous at best. 

[GreatKazu]

Kyle is the one who said on WWHL that if she knew it was for wine tasting she would never have put her sister in this situation.  To me that "never have put her sister in this situation" tells me she believed it was wrong.

Kyle stated to Andy, "First of all, I had no idea there was any wine-tasting. I had set up a massage for the girls with the hotel, and the hotel then decided to go all out, but I had no idea what was set up other than the massage."

 

Did anyone notice in the sneak-peek on WWHL, Kyle, Kim and Brandi were standing out in front of a garage, and you could see a man peering out of the glass through the garage door? Anyone else catch this? Was that Kim's home?

Edited January 22, 2015 by GreatKazu

[GreatKazu]

They all knew it was a wine tasting segment

I assume when you post "all" that means the addict, Kim, too? Correct? At what point does Kim stop having excuses for her behavior? At what point is Kim supposed to care for herself, her actions, her choices and the decisions she makes? Of course, it is not Kim making this excuse, as she already clarified and backed up Kyle's comment that she was not at all bothered by the wine-tasting. Her beef was there was no food. Kim even made a joke about it. I think, personally, you are reaching for something to put on Kyle when the only person who is responsible for Kim, is Kim herself. One of the first things I learned in Al-Anon is you cannot control the addict, you are not responsible for the addict, they have to do for themselves.

[copacabana]

They all knew it was a wine tasting segment and not lunch by the location...The Foley Wine Tasting Room.  To say later on WWHL that she wanted to clear things up that she did not know a wine tasting was to be filmed was disingenuous at best. 

 

I understand your suspicions but have to ask again and like a big bore why this night was different from any other night.  Why this event was different from any other?

 

I think you are on to something when you describe the underlying hostility, competitiveness, and craziness between these two sisters but still don't understand how this circumstance is different from all of the drinking all around her that has gone on around Kim for years now.  Neither of them can really be described as being fully responsible for anything because neither of them is healthy when it comes to this family trauma.  

 

A wine tasting may not feel good but it's just a wine tasting.  Picking up a drink from a roving party tray is a whole lot easier.  Picking up discarded drinks at party events and downing them is really easy too and a great way to drink in secret.  Being upset or just wanting to use and stocking up on whatever turns you on at home when no one's looking is actually the way to go. 

 

If Kim wants to drink and use, she's going to find a way to do that.  Wine tasting or no wine tasting.  To an alcoholic, there is no boundary to using if you want to -- and no reason to not indulge if you are just in that mood. Addicts pick and choose their slips and relapses -- I think Kyle is a mess but don't see how she can be responsible for that.  It would never end. 

[motorcitymom65]

They all knew it was a wine tasting segment and not lunch by the location...The Foley Wine Tasting Room.  To say later on WWHL that she wanted to clear things up that she did not know a wine tasting was to be filmed was disingenuous at best. 

I guess I don't understand why this is a big deal or some sort of a big reveal. Kyle seems to be consistent on the show, on WWHL and in her blog. She said she didn't know it was a tasting, Kim seemed to think she didn't know, and Lisa V said in her blog that Kyle didn't realize the details of the event.  Hell, even Brandi, who is looking for every possible way to hammer away at Kyle didn't dispute this in her blog. If Kyle knew or if Brandi thought she knew, why wouldn't she say something? Her big hook seems to be that Kyle is looking to publicly shame Kim on TV for a storyline. Seems like a place that Brandi would go.

 

Someone up thread gave good insight from a production point of view, and this goes with what I have always heard.  I think it was Beth - or someone else on the NY show - who said years ago that even the events that are more personal (such as a birthday party) can be out of their hands when it comes to a venue or planning. She said that they can make recommendations if they want to have it at a special place, but it often times doesn't work out that way. There are a ton of details that go into planning, not the least of which is finding a place they can actually shoot the scene. To believe that Kyle was calling around and finding venues, discussing particulars on the phone to get approvals to film and such is extremely far fetched IMO. 

[GreatKazu]

Lola - I don't see Kyle asking for a pass on her reaction or behavior. None. I see her dealing with the realities of dealing with an addict. There is a difference between people choosing not to judge Kyle for her behavior and Kyle painting herself as a victim in all of this and "whoa is me".  I don't hear Kyle commenting she is the victim of all of this mess. I hear a woman who is struggling to deal with an addict and her addict's BFF who has an agenda of her own to dethrone Kyle as Kim's sister and to move in that spot.

 

secondly stated on WWHL that she would NEVER put her recovering addict sister Kim in such a position. I agree with Kyle about her second point, but not about her first.

Where in the segment did she even say this? I watched it and Kyle never said such a thing. I posted above word for word what she said. The first five minutes of the show Andy asked her to clarify what happened, Kyle responded. Nothing about she would never put Kim in such a spot.

 

I will post it again in case it was just overlooked. I think if someone is pointing out a supposed lie that Kyle supposedly said on national television, the correct quote should be noted: 

 

First of all, I had no idea there was any wine-tasting. I had set up a massage for the girls with the hotel, and the hotel then decided to go all out, but I had no idea what was set up other than the massage

Edited January 22, 2015 by GreatKazu

[rubyred]

Random thoughts:

The thing about the Brandi/Kim...thing, whatever it is, is I don't see the point. Like, what is the endgame here? Sure, Kim gets to air all her imagined grievances and lash out at her sister. Brandi gets whatever thrill she gets out of being in the press, being a "truth cannon"/bitchy slag. But how does this further their careers on the show?

 

Brandi has latched on to Kim to give herself a storyline, and her choice is to break up two sisters? What the hell kind of ambition is that? It won't work, they're always going to be related. And no one is going to want to keep watching that. But she's run out of other Hwives to film with. Does she think she's going to get a spinoff? Seriously? She's making herself less and less desirable to this franchise with this BS.

 

I can see, with her addiction, that Kim is an a self-destructive spiral. But I'm not related to her, and even understanding her addiction I think she's a lying liar who lies and Kyle should cut her off. In fact I would love it if Kyle's next storyline would be that she has cut off contact with Kim and is maybe taking a class at UCLA. I'm sure a lot of people would consider that boring but I'd rather watch that than feel the stress of watching a show like that one.

 

It's unfortunate that after all these years Kyle is so reactive to Kim's antics, but that seems to be an aspect of her personality, for better or worse. She needs a break.

 

Is it true that Kyle has tied her participation on the show to them keeping Kim? I wonder what Bravo would do if Kyle decided she couldn't keep doing the show. Or if they're ready and have been ready to drop Kim, but haven't because of that proviso?

Edited January 22, 2015 by rubyred

[motorcitymom65]

Regarding Lisa and her attitude or lack of towards Eileen, I am going to cut her some slack here, as this is pretty much how she rolls.  I have always said that it seems as though Kyle is the "welcome wagon" on the show.  With the exception of Brandi, Kyle is generally the first ho'wife we see interacting and welcoming the newbies. It has always been that way. You will rarely see Lisa filming one on one with a new gal. Lisa R was an exception because they were already friends. You never saw Lisa film alone with Dana/Pam, Brandi, Marisa, Carlton or Joyce initially, except in groups. Hell, even in the case of Yo, who Lisa had a slight prior relationship with, it was Kyle who filmed with her first when she went to do the lemon cleanse deal. The first time Lisa spent any real time with Yo on camera she took Kyle with her to meet Suzanne Somers. I think Lisa has always been more about standing back and taking them in during the social occasions vs. really getting to know them. 

 

Having said that, I do think that they brought Eileen in as the person who would knock Lisa down a bit. Lisa remains the most popular and beloved gal on this franchise - hell maybe on any of the franchises.  As we know, Bravo will not let that go on forever. At some point she will be challenged by someone who the audience would feel is an acceptable alternative. Then again, I always thought that was the plan with Yo.

[sistermagpie]

They all knew it was a wine tasting segment and not lunch by the location...The Foley Wine Tasting Room.  To say later on WWHL that she wanted to clear things up that she did not know a wine tasting was to be filmed was disingenuous at best.

 

 

You could easily be called the Foley Wine Tasting Room and still serve lunch there. Especially if it's at a hotel and they're there primarily for massages and then the hotel was giving them extra. If all the ladies have said they all knew the same thing beforehand what would Kyle be lying about? If she was lying then they all were/are.

Edited January 22, 2015 by sistermagpie

[ryebread]

I am sure this has been mentioned, but what is up with the "cut cut" motion Brandi makes toward the camera when Kim goes off to talk with Kyle?

 

For me, that cut/cut/cut, stop rolling the cameras was everything. Brandi knew something was up with Kim.  And imo, she wanted to protect Kim and her kids from another embarrassing scene.  Brandi is a drunken slag but in that moment she thought she was doing the right thing. By trying to get Kim out of the house and blocking Kyle from addressing it right there in front of cameras.  Because you know Kyle is going to evolve into a tearful, finger pointing shrew in 3...2...1...

 

 I likely would have done the same.  If my good friend was about to show her ass in the way that only Bravo can help you show it - yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd've done the same. And I'd chew her ass all the way home. But from what I'm learning here, that might not be the right thing?  But in the moment, with the cameras in my face, my instincts would be to protect the ones I care for at all costs. Inlcuding physical injury if self defense warranted it. 

[rubyred]

For me, that cut/cut/cut, stop rolling the cameras was everything. Brandi knew something was up with Kim.  And imo, she wanted to protect Kim and her kids from another embarrassing scene.  Brandi is a drunken slag but in that moment she thought she was doing the right thing. By trying to get Kim out of the house and blocking Kyle from addressing it right there in front of cameras.  Because you know Kyle is going to evolve into a tearful, finger pointing shrew in 3...2...1...

 

 I likely would have done the same.  If my good friend was about to show her ass in the way that only Bravo can help you show it - yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd've done the same. And I'd chew her ass all the way home. But from what I'm learning here, that might not be the right thing?  But in the moment, with the cameras in my face, my instincts would be to protect the ones I care for at all costs. Inlcuding physical injury if self defense warranted it. 

For me the key here is your second paragraph - I do not believe for one second that Brandi cares about Kim in a deep and meaningful way. I cannot extend her that benefit of the doubt. Maybe in her alcohol-soaked haze she realized that things were going to get ugly and was trying to protect Kim from that, but I don't believe it was because she cared about Kim, it was because she knew things were going to start popping with Kyle and that would guarantee airtime. I see you, Brandi.

[motorcitymom65]

 

Is it true that Kyle has tied her participation on the show to them keeping Kim? I wonder what Bravo would do if Kyle decided she couldn't keep doing the show. Or if they're ready and have been ready to drop Kim, but haven't because of that proviso?

It has been said, but honestly, I think it is more of an Urban Legend. For one thing, no one has ever been able to pinpoint exactly when or where she said it. Lots of people remember reading it, but it can never be found. That is odd to me, because I have spent time looking for lots of stuff on this show, and if it is out there, eventually it can be located. Also, while I like Kyle, I don't believe she is this selfless. I think she likes being on TV and that this is a really big deal to her. I don't think she is tying her fortunes to Kim. She knows that Kim is unpredictable and she only looks out for herself and her interests. Kyle loves her and thinks the show is good for her, as does Kim. This they have both said this, but I think the deal about them being a joint package is just rumor and speculation. 

[missyb]

When the girls first arrive a the resort, the hostess has a tray of champagne and one non alcoholic drink. However,she may have been the only one who knew that she needed to have one non alcoholic drink. I will now equate this to being gluten free. Only the rare person remembers !! You can tell them in one breath, I cannot have wheat, and in the next they will ask you what kind of bread would you like with your eggs.  Obviously the hostess who greeted the girls got the message but the wine tasting room did not. The hotel thought this would be a cool way to advertise the amenity .

People ten to look for nefarious meaning to everything. Sometimes it is just inattention to good customer service. 

[donovan]

They all knew it was a wine tasting segment and not lunch by the location...The Foley Wine Tasting Room.  To say later on WWHL that she wanted to clear things up that she did not know a wine tasting was to be filmed was disingenuous at best.

Isn't it possible that the hotel:

put them in that room to contain the cameras and any add'l production people just standing around from the rest of their paying guests?

put them in that room to show off their hotel's accommodations?

put them in that room to contain these harpies because they have seen how seemingly normal dinner parties go to hell in a hand basket with people from any of the Real Housewives shows?

Even though they try to portray RH woman hosting/arranging an outing do it on their own, I don't for one second believe it. It is run by production imo.

A wine tasting and a wine pairing are two different things in my book - both could have been done in that room.

[RealityTVSmack]

Okay, so I finally watched the episode and read the thread--I know we can just jump in here but thanks to all those who shared stories of addiction, whether personal or in the family.

 

I feel for Kyle in a big way, and in keeping with my general feelings about the Richards sisters, I've actually never seen Kyle as anything other than a mouthy asshole.  Her palpable confusion and growing fear while sitting at that poker table--unreal.  You could almost feel her terror.  She looked scared to death.  I can't imagine what was going through her head in those moments and there's no way I'm going to judge her.  What the hell was Kim implying with the goddamned case the cigar she was smoking came in?  That flipped me out too.  Was this when Kyle got up from the table to go to the bathroom?

Was Kim implying something about the size of Mauricio's member? If so that should/would cause total terror on Kyle's face. Was her out of control sister going there?

Edited January 22, 2015 by RealityTVSmack

[motorcitymom65]

For me, that cut/cut/cut, stop rolling the cameras was everything. Brandi knew something was up with Kim.  And imo, she wanted to protect Kim and her kids from another embarrassing scene.  Brandi is a drunken slag but in that moment she thought she was doing the right thing. By trying to get Kim out of the house and blocking Kyle from addressing it right there in front of cameras.  Because you know Kyle is going to evolve into a tearful, finger pointing shrew in 3...2...1...

 

 I likely would have done the same.  If my good friend was about to show her ass in the way that only Bravo can help you show it - yeah, I'm pretty sure I'd've done the same. And I'd chew her ass all the way home. But from what I'm learning here, that might not be the right thing?  But in the moment, with the cameras in my face, my instincts would be to protect the ones I care for at all costs. Inlcuding physical injury if self defense warranted it. 

I think the cut, cut motion was interesting and it made me think. I wonder, though, is this what Brandi was doing? And is that what they really do? Would they stop filming if someone asked them too in the middle of filming? If so, wouldn't folks be using slashing symbols all over the place on these shows?  Maybe she was motioning to someone else. Maybe saying to Eileen or her husband that she thought Kim was done, or something? I don't know. Didn't one of the gals say once that the best way to get them to stop filming was just to say, "stop filming", because they aren't going to record and show you saying that? 

 

I have almost come along to the thought that Brandi might have legitimately been trying to protect Kim, or at the very least trying to stop Kyle from having a moment. But what happened to the Brandi in the limo with Kyle, listening with a sympathetic ear to Kyle talk about how hard it had always been, to make her become the Brandi at the poker table? Just booze? It seemed like she wanted to make Kyle go there, as she was being as annoying and vicious as Kim was. It almost seemed like she was trying to provoke Kyle in some manner? Is it possible that Brandi knows you cannot stop filming just by giving them a sign, but she wanted to do it anyway just to show that she was trying to shut it down? I love to hear thoughts, because my Brandi hate can sometimes get in my eyes. 

[larapu2000]

 

 

Obviously Kim is responsible for her own addiction.  That doesn't mean Kyle gets a pass on her behavior or reactions.  People can be empathetic to Kyle for her long standing suffering routine and can understand why she acts/responds the way she does.  Kyle though is also 100% responsible for how she acts or doesn't act in each situation.  Kyle fell into old behaviors of dealing with her sister and it turned out like it always does - a big shit show.  And that is on both Kyle and Kim. Takes two to tango, not just the one who instigates the dance/drama.

 

Meh.  When you're dealing with someone on any kind of substance, they are unpredictable in every way.  The part that sucks about dealing with addicts is that no matter how you engage or don't engage, they're going to engage with you if you're the target of their ire.  Kyle is always in a no win situation.

 

It's like when Umbridge wore the horcrux necklace in Harry Potter.

You win the internet for working a Harry Potter metaphor into a Housewives discussion.

[cooksdelight]

Kim needs to go back to making chicken salad and talking to her turtles. Off-camera. She won't be able to have any type of acting career restart if she doesn't clean up her act.

[ryebread]

For me the key here is your second paragraph - I do not believe for one second that Brandi cares about Kim in a deep and meaningful way.

 

That's why I say the cut/cut/cut was everything.  I think those 5 seconds of film showed she does care for Kim.  Brandi isn't smart enough to figure out in the split second that Kim got up to follow Kyle, to the cut motion that it would mean more camera time for Kyle. 

 

I believe Kim stood up to follow Kyle and Brandi thought, "Here..we..go".  /Nene    In her head she was screaming, "CUUUUUUUUUT".

[haydensterling]

Was Kim implying something about the size of Mauricio's member? If so that should/would cause total terror on Kyle's face. Was her out of control sister going there?

 

 

 

I think Kyle was terrified because her sister was clearly on something again, and I think there's a ton of emotions that go through a person when they realize that.  I think part of getting up from the table was to compose herself, but I think part of it was also to get away from what Kim was doing, which is to say, being a vicious asshole.

 

I also think that there was something very weird and pointed about that cigar case business, and I have no idea if Kim was making some veiled threat or remark regarding Mauricio or perhaps something else in Kyle's past, but it made me feel very uncomfortable.  The Richards family strike me as nothing if not extremely good at keeping secrets until they want to brutalize someone else with them, even if that someone happens to be a member of your own family.

[RealityTVSmack]

You could easily be called the Foley Wine Tasting Room and still serve lunch there. Especially if it's at a hotel and they're there primarily for massages and then the hotel was giving them extra. If all the ladies have said they all knew the same thing beforehand what would Kyle be lying about? If she was lying then they all were/are.

On WWHL Kyle said she did not know and if she did she would never put her sister in the position of attending a wine tasting event.

[GreatKazu]

On WWHL Kyle said she did not know and if she did she would never put her sister in the position of attending a wine tasting event.

I clearly typed WORD FOR WORD what Kyle stated on WWHL. Kyle NEVER said such a thing.  Read my posts above to read what she did say. It is one thing to call Kyle a liar. It is another to pass off a quote of hers that she never said.

 

This is what Kyle said on WWHL:

First of all, I had no idea there was any wine-tasting. I had set up a massage for the girls with the hotel, and the hotel then decided to go all out but, I had no idea what was set up other than the massage.

 

Should I post a clip of what she said? Maybe that would get the message across that Kyle never said such a thing to fit some sort of agenda that Kyle is a liar about this event.

Edited January 22, 2015 by GreatKazu

[copacabana]

I just know that 24 hours later I am having to search again for the person who made me laugh my ass off over Yolanda and daughters being worthy of SVU.  I know it's SO wrong and I'm just bad bad bad but I'm still laughing like Pavlov's dog. I keep hearing boink boink. 

 

No one is ever 100 percent responsible for their own behavior or reactions ever.  Maybe Robinson Crusoe on the island. 

 

Yolanda and Lisa V back next episode please! 

 

If I were a betting woman, I'd put my poker money on LisaR.  I think she's going to be able to jump off this shit show and get herself another minor cable gig -- She's cool and funny. 

Edited January 22, 2015 by copacabana

[cooksdelight]

I just know that 24 hours later I am having to search again for the person who made me laugh my ass off over Yolanda and daughters being worthy of SVU.

Guilty, that would be me. :) Just trying to lighten things up a little.

[ryebread]

I think the cut, cut motion was interesting and it made me think. I wonder, though, is this what Brandi was doing?

 

It could have been meant for someone else other than the camera person.  But regardless of whom it was meant for, imo, Brandi wanted it shut down for Kim's sake. Also, there are 3 or 4 other instances that night of Brandi trying to get Kim to go home. Failing that, told her to "act nice" and pretty much trailed her in and around the kitchen. Escorted her, finally, to the door when Kyle got all grabby.

 

If the cut motion was the only 'protective' thing we'd seen, it wouldn't symbolize so much for me.  But everything from that motion, to barring Kyle from Kim told me she didn't want Kim to suffer more embarrassment like she has in the past AND like Brandi herself is all too familiar with.

[sistermagpie]

Maybe in her alcohol-soaked haze she realized that things were going to get ugly and was trying to protect Kim from that, but I don't believe it was because she cared about Kim, it was because she knew things were going to start popping with Kyle and that would guarantee airtime. I see you, Brandi.

 

 

But Brandi was encouraging things to start popping with Kyle the whole time at the table. She was teaming up with Kim to antagonize her. Making a tiny cut sign she'd know the camera people would barely see, much less obey, when Kim goes after Kyle who's left the table doesn't seem that big of a deal. In that scene Kyle herself was just as protective of Kim by whispering. 

 

I do think that Brandi was very into the role of being helpful so she does believe on some level she was being the good person. But her help seemed to be all about playing out Kim's script of being a victim--she jumped in on Kyle being the bad guy as soon as Kim said Kyle made her "uncomfortable". And that was after making everything ugly by teaming up with Kim against Kyle. When Kim went back to say goodbye she said, "Be nice" like she knew Kim was going to tell Kyle or everyone else off (and and had good reason to). So Brandi's desire to help Kim avoid embarrassment seems to pale beside her desire to help create a scene the way Kim wants it--which includes somebody just not letting Kyle talk to her at all because Kyle had obviously already done enough to hurt Kim. Even though in that moment Kyle was coming at Kim with "What's going on? I don't understand. Why are you suddenly angry at me?" Embarrassment isn't necessarily the only thing she's protecting her from there--or even the main thing, since Brandi was sure to encourage and validate Kim's anger at Kyle while ushering her out. Also there's a line between embarrassment due to being wasted (which Kim obviously was all night) and Kim looking bad and hostile and aggressive, which was the thing Brandi stepped up to prevent. 

 

One thing about Kyle is while she clearly hasn't broken out of her co-dependent patterns she is handling things differently than she has before. She still makes mistakes but she seems to have tried to adjust herself a bit, including being more the way Kim might like her.

Edited January 22, 2015 by sistermagpie

[copacabana]

Guilty, that would be me. :) Just trying to lighten things up a little.

I adore you for that.  So important to laugh a real hearty belly laugh for several minutes on end and this just did and does it for me.  So funny. 

 

 

General Old Lady Obnoxious Announcement though --

 

Let's go easy on some of this stuff though or we're going to get locked out for the second time a little over a week and then we don't get hang out. 

[rubyred]

Hmm. Well I guess I could see that in the moment Brandi thought she was being protective of Kim...I admit it's hard for me to give her the benefit of the doubt so I'll admit bias there! I just think she's very cunning, and when Kyle and then Kim popped up I'm sure (speculating) the production crew scrambled too, so there would be additional indications that something might happen (Bravo hopes). And it's the kind of action Brandi likes, so seeing her wade into chaos looked like same-old to me.

 

Anyway I'm sure that's how Brandi rationalizes it, but still as I mentioned in a previous post, I think she's a piss-poor long range planner because this "take Kyle down" storyline is a dead end.

 

I dread the reunion.

[zoeysmom]

I think the cut, cut motion was interesting and it made me think. I wonder, though, is this what Brandi was doing? And is that what they really do? Would they stop filming if someone asked them too in the middle of filming? If so, wouldn't folks be using slashing symbols all over the place on these shows?  Maybe she was motioning to someone else. Maybe saying to Eileen or her husband that she thought Kim was done, or something? I don't know. Didn't one of the gals say once that the best way to get them to stop filming was just to say, "stop filming", because they aren't going to record and show you saying that? 

 

I have almost come along to the thought that Brandi might have legitimately been trying to protect Kim, or at the very least trying to stop Kyle from having a moment. But what happened to the Brandi in the limo with Kyle, listening with a sympathetic ear to Kyle talk about how hard it had always been, to make her become the Brandi at the poker table? Just booze? It seemed like she wanted to make Kyle go there, as she was being as annoying and vicious as Kim was. It almost seemed like she was trying to provoke Kyle in some manner? Is it possible that Brandi knows you cannot stop filming just by giving them a sign, but she wanted to do it anyway just to show that she was trying to shut it down? I love to hear thoughts, because my Brandi hate can sometimes get in my eyes. 

First off Brandi was drunk so her not so subtle attempts to become the director were ignored.  Production continues to roll film and decides later what they will use.  The can always go with Frankenbites.  I think Brandi was intentionally trying to make herself look good by trying to direct.  I think the limo conversation was about how far Kim had come and how strong she was in her sobriety. Kyle speaking to their growing up didn't seem negative-just informative.  What was interesting is Brandi agreed the talk should be out in the open about Kim's addictions-except for Kyle mentioning it.  For non-Californians the Bel Air to Malibu route  is pretty close to an hour's drive so the three minutes of conversation was definitely selective by production.

 

I think Brandi was drunk and I think if she really wanted to "protect" Kim from Kyle she would have let it play out.  The drama ensued when Kim and Brandi got ridiculous.  Kim and Brandi thought they could play a little tag team joke and recreate previous season drama because the two of them are lame and desperate.  Brandi and Kim had had quite a little run of the table with their inappropriate comments so they needed to get some feedback.  If Brandi was so worried about Kim why not direct her to another bathroom?  Brandi knew Kim was over there to rub it in Kyle's face some more and try and get a camera worthy scene.   When Brandi started ushering her out Kim came back in for another curtain call. 

[RealityTVSmack]

I notice you have not acknowledged my two posts where I clearly typed WORD FOR WORD what Kyle stated on WWHL. Kyle NEVER said such a thing.  Read my posts above to read what she did say. It is one thing to call Kyle a liar. It is another to pass off a quote of hers that she never said.

 

This is what Kyle said on WWHL:

First of all, I had no idea there was any wine-tasting. I had set up a massage for the girls with the hotel, and the hotel then decided to go all out but, I had no idea what was set up other than the massage.

 

Should I post a clip of what she said? Maybe that would get the message across that Kyle never said such a thing.

She said she had "no idea" there was "any wine tasting" which I agree she said on WWHL. IMO she's bold face lying about it. To the degree she brings wine up herself on the episode.

Edited January 22, 2015 by RealityTVSmack

[ryebread]

Let's go easy on some of this stuff though or we're going to get locked out for the second time a little over a week and then we don't get hang out. 

 

Ohhh.  I missed a lock out?

 

Great Kazu and RealityTVSmack:  Kyle actually did say she would never want to put her sister in that position.  But it was during the episode.  Easy mistake.

[Higgins]

But Brandi was encouraging things to start popping with Kyle the whole time at the table. She was teaming up with Kim to antagonize her. Making a tiny cut sign she'd know the camera people would barely see, much less obey, when Kim goes after Kyle who's left the table doesn't seem that big of a deal. In that scene Kyle herself was just as protective of Kim by whispering. 

 

I do think that Brandi was very into the role of being helpful so she does believe on some level she was being the good person. But her help seemed to be all about playing out Kim's script of being a victim--she jumped in on Kyle being the bad guy as soon as Kim said Kyle made her "uncomfortable". And that was after making everything ugly by teaming up with Kim against Kyle. When Kim went back to say goodbye she said, "Be nice" like she knew Kim was going to tell Kyle or everyone else off (and and had good reason to). So Brandi's desire to help Kim avoid embarrassment seems to pale beside her desire to help create a scene the way Kim wants it--which includes somebody just not letting Kyle talk to her at all because Kyle had obviously already done enough to hurt Kim. Even though in that moment Kyle was coming at Kim with "What's going on? I don't understand. Why are you suddenly angry at me?" Embarrassment isn't necessarily the only thing she's protecting her from there--or even the main thing, since Brandi was sure to encourage and validate Kim's anger at Kyle while ushering her out. Also there's a line between embarrassment due to being wasted (which Kim obviously was all night) and Kim looking bad and hostile and aggressive, which was the thing Brandi stepped up to prevent. 

 

One thing about Kyle is while she clearly hasn't broken out of her co-dependent patterns she is handling things differently than she has before. She still makes mistakes but she seems to have tried to adjust herself a bit, including being more the way Kim might like her.

Here's the thing though, Kyle needs to total disengage herself from Kim's problems. That doesn't mean that she has to cut her out, just that she needs to stop playing a part in the addiction. She has many times talked about bailing Kim out, promising her mother to care for Kim. The whole car ride over. all she talked about was Kim's addiction. She has played that up, often. If I were her, I would stop going there. I understand her frustration but her involvement isn't helpful to either of them.

[CaughtOnTape]

Let's go easy on some of this stuff though or we're going to get locked out for the second time a little over a week and then we don't get hang out. 

 

There's a mod here who has posted recently.  If we need to be told to chill out, let the mod do it, it's what they're here for.  We're all adults here and no one has said anything out of line.  People are simply trying to make sure the truth of the situation is known against someone who continues to claim something was said that was not said.

[imjagain]

First off, I will say I don't know a lot about addiction, except for what I see on the show "Intervention." 9 times out of 10 the addicts on that show have had some sort of past trauma. That got me to think: I wonder what sort of trauma Kim has had in her life. Because she's showing herself to be a very angry, vindictive person and I can't help but think some sort of abuse set it off at one time. OTOH, maybe she's a spoiled Hollywood child star that feels entitled to everything.

Either way, she obviously needs a lot of help AND she has to help herself <- something else I learned from "Intervention"

It could easily be both. Edited January 22, 2015 by imjagain

[CaughtOnTape]

Regardless of whether or not she said it, the logic still doesn't jive IMO.  Kyle's statements about what went down seem genuine to me.  Bacara is no stranger to having Reality shows filmed there.  Nick Carter's wedding was there  (for those of you who are going "Who the hell is Nick Carter?" he's a Backstreet Boy who had a reality show in VH1 a few months ago).  I'm sure they have many places where they stash filming crews and celebrities so as not to bother their other guests.  Just because a room is named something doesn't mean that's solely the only thing that happens there.

 

She stated she didn't know and that she'd never want to put her sister in that position so I'm not sure how we circle back to her cackling with glee while she makes plans for a wine tasting and invites Kim.  Her face during the poker game was telling enough for me.  She looked shocked as shit as to what was going on and clearly uncomfortable.  She also, it seemed to me, came to the realization suddenly that it was being filmed which is part of the reason she stood up and excused herself and then kept quiet during the discussion in the bathroom.  I just don't see Kyle as that calculating.

Edited January 22, 2015 by CaughtOnTape

[AnnaL]

It could have been meant for someone else other than the camera person.  But regardless of whom it was meant for, imo, Brandi wanted it shut down for Kim's sake. Also, there are 3 or 4 other instances that night of Brandi trying to get Kim to go home. Failing that, told her to "act nice" and pretty much trailed her in and around the kitchen. Escorted her, finally, to the door when Kyle got all grabby.

 

If the cut motion was the only 'protective' thing we'd seen, it wouldn't symbolize so much for me.  But everything from that motion, to barring Kyle from Kim told me she didn't want Kim to suffer more embarrassment like she has in the past AND like Brandi herself is all too familiar with.

 

I disagree, if she wanted to help Kim as she wants us to believe she would have not have behaved the way she did, if she wanted to protect Kim she would have noticed how wasted she was and would have tried to cool her off, instead she actively participated in the mocking and belittling of Kyle, she showed her own ass by acting in such a trashy way, at that point when Kyle went to the bathroom not one word had been said about any abuse of anything, Kyle went to the restroom and that was it, it could have been the end of anything, the reason why Kim went to the bathroom is because she had been extremely annoying and disrespectful not only to Kyle but also to the hostess of the event.

 

Do Kim and Brandi would like to believe that they can act like jerks and have a good laugh at others' expense and they just have to take it and pretend that nothing is happening? are they so full of themselves that they truly believe that even when it is noticeable that they are on something, everybody just have to turn a blind eye?

 

Considering what had happened at that poker table and how embarrasing Kim's behavior was, Kyle did the right thing, she excused herself and went to the restroom. Brandi making a cut motion was IMO not aimed to protect Kim but to protect herself, as drunk as Brandi was she knew that they both, Kim and Brandi, have gone to far with their crass behavior, she didn't want Kyle to confront Kim about it or make a scene about it because she was on the same boat as Kim. One can't comment on how bad Kim's behavior was without bringing light to how bad Brandi's behavior was. Brandi IMO was only protecting herself .

 

Brandi making a cut motion IMO doesn't mean she was trying to protect Kim, she was trying to control the narrative of the episode. Almost as like Eileen said the elephant in the room. Notice how Kyle whispered in the restroom and needed subtitles for her words, if she truly wanted to embarras Kim she would have not been whispering, after that according to Kyle they hugged , Kyle went out of that bathroom and thought they were okay, Kim went out of that bathroom and her first instinct was to cry to Brandi about how "unconfortable" Kyle had made her feel. really? are you kidding me?

 

Unconfortable is how LisaR felt in that limo, unconfortable was Vincent and Eileen at that table, unconfortable was Kyle at that table when she saw what was happening in front of her eyes, yet when Kim feels unconfortable she needs protection? body protection? "I got your back" - having her back is certainly not enabling to think that her behavior is normal but what would Brandi know about normal behavior?

 

IMO Brandi during that limo ride and given the nature of Kyle's confessions about how Kim's addiction had affected not only her but also the family made the decision to make that her story line, she would become Kim's protector and that was her attitude during that whole poker game, she came out of that limo with her new strategy, the fact that Kim was wasted out of her mind just seal the deal, Brandi had chosen her new victim and Kim was just the means to an end.

 

I am sorry but I just can't give Brandi any benefit of the doubt. When a person is willing to use little kids (Adrienne's) in her fight against another castmate, that tells me that there is not one boundary they will not cross, not even taking advantage of a obviously pathetic woman like Kim.

[ryebread]

Was Kim implying something about the size of Mauricio's member? If so that should/would cause total terror on Kyle's face. Was her out of control sister going there?

 

And this is where I felt Eileen dropped the ball in the hostess department. That was awkward for everyone.  Vinnie looked like he wanted to be anywhere but there.  

 

Eileen:  What are you talking about?

Kim:  What are YOU talking about?

Eileen:  I'm not quite sure.

 

Then she folded her hands and waited for the next brilliant gem from Kim or Brandi. Seemed like forever. Everybody quiet, eyes shifting. LOL She should have taken that opportunity to get up from that really weird scene and offer food. More booze.  An escort to the door. Anything to get away from that weird table.

[motorcitymom65]

But Brandi was encouraging things to start popping with Kyle the whole time at the table. She was teaming up with Kim to antagonize her. Making a tiny cut sign she'd know the camera people would barely see, much less obey, when Kim goes after Kyle who's left the table doesn't seem that big of a deal. In that scene Kyle herself was just as protective of Kim by whispering. 

 

I do think that Brandi was very into the role of being helpful so she does believe on some level she was being the good person. But her help seemed to be all about playing out Kim's script of being a victim--she jumped in on Kyle being the bad guy as soon as Kim said Kyle made her "uncomfortable". And that was after making everything ugly by teaming up with Kim against Kyle. When Kim went back to say goodbye she said, "Be nice" like she knew Kim was going to tell Kyle or everyone else off (and and had good reason to). So Brandi's desire to help Kim avoid embarrassment seems to pale beside her desire to help create a scene the way Kim wants it--which includes somebody just not letting Kyle talk to her at all because Kyle had obviously already done enough to hurt Kim. Even though in that moment Kyle was coming at Kim with "What's going on? I don't understand. Why are you suddenly angry at me?" Embarrassment isn't necessarily the only thing she's protecting her from there--or even the main thing, since Brandi was sure to encourage and validate Kim's anger at Kyle while ushering her out. Also there's a line between embarrassment due to being wasted (which Kim obviously was all night) and Kim looking bad and hostile and aggressive, which was the thing Brandi stepped up to prevent. 

 

One thing about Kyle is while she clearly hasn't broken out of her co-dependent patterns she is handling things differently than she has before. She still makes mistakes but she seems to have tried to adjust herself a bit, including being more the way Kim might like her.

I think this is at the heart of it for me. On the one hand, I can see Brandi actually working to get Kim out of there, and I do think that is what she was doing. I also think that she wanted to protect Kim. For whatever reason, I actually think she cares about her. Shades of the way she was protective of her in Ojai, I guess.  Although I have no idea why I hold onto this when she was the one talking about the shit-stained pillow.  

 

The problem I have is that I also think she was trying to stir Kyle up. She was active and vicious at the table with Kim. She wasn't just watching Kim go after Kyle, she was going there as well. And she was also trying to get Kim all worked up with the whole "no one knows what you are going through except me", and "I've got your back". If you are concerned about Kim not making a huge deal out of it all, why not try to calm her down with something like "Kyle is just worried about you". This is the part that I don't get. She was so two faced by letting Kyle confide in her during the limo ride and acting like she understood, then almost using that knowledge against Kyle a mere few hours later.  

 

I think Brandi's whole point was to provoke Kyle and look like she was Kim's protector. Maybe she was Kim's protector and she really didn't want to get hurt, but she was more than willing to help get it to a point where Kyle lost control and she was the one who took control of the sister. Leave the terrible sister, the one with a history of Limo revelations and game night antics once again looking like a raging mean-girl loon. People will buy it because they've seen it all before. 

 

It isn't lost of me that this episode brought together for Kyle her two most horrible moments - the first being a situation with a drunk sister and allegations that she didn't protect her, and Game Night. I think it probably all went down about the way Brandi hoped that it would. 

[Leroux]

SNIP...

 

Do Kim and Brandi would like to believe that they can act like jerks and have a good laugh at others' expense and they just have to take it and pretend that nothing is happening? are they so full of themselves that they truly believe that even when it is noticeable that they are on something, everybody just have to turn a blind eye?

 

SNIP..

 

IMO Brandi during that limo ride and given the nature of Kyle's confessions about how Kim's addiction had affected not only her but also the family made the decision to make that her story line, she would become Kim's protector and that was her attitude during that whole poker game, she came out of that limo with her new strategy, the fact that Kim was wasted out of her mind just seal the deal, Brandi had chosen her new victim and Kim was just the means to an end.

 

I am sorry but I just can't give Brandi any benefit of the doubt. When a person is willing to use little kids (Adrienne's) in her fight against another castmate, that tells me that there is not one boundary they will not cross, not even taking advantage of a obviously pathetic woman like Kim.

 

Yes, they both do, if you do not overlook their horrible actions you become the enemy, and really who would like to have any of these two nasty women with no filter as their enemy, so most of them just pretend that this is not happening or do not talk about it.

 

I agree with you on that one 100%, Brandi saw her opportunity and took it, she would become protector or poor underdog Kim against her evil sister Kyle, Brandi had it all figured out since the moment Kyle was opening her heart to her in the limo. Stupid Kyle didn't realize that she was giving Brandi just the ammunition that she needed.

 

With the absence of engaging from Lisa, Eileen and Lisa R, given how badly she behaved when she threw wine at Eileen and knowing that she needed something quick to vindicate herself she IMO decided that her best bet was to go against Kyle and what better way to do it than to use her own sister against her.

 

I don't put it pass Brand ibecause she has shown time and time again that she is very rotten to the core.