Gotham in the Media

[Chaos Theory]

57 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Source? Seeing nothing on Google.

I double checked and my source is actually a crappy twitter source that is saying probably definitely almost certainly so I am probably wrong.  It’s @Gothamhub which has been right in the past so take it as you want.  

Edited March 23, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Kostgard]

I believe that the original source is a site called renewcanceltv.com where they reported “an insider” said that Fox has quietly greenlit season five. I have no idea what this site’s track record is as far as accuracy. They also reported that Lucifer was renewed, but one of that show’s producers has said they still haven’t received any news one way or the other (I don’t think anyone associated with Gotham have confirmed or denied this story).

I think people also got excited because a couple days ago Sean Pertwee posted a video on Instagram where he said something like, “Today was my last day of shooting for season four. See everyone in a couple months for season five.” But there’s no telling if they are actually scheduled to come back already or if Sean was just being optimistic. I think we just have to wait to hear the official word from Fox (probably in May).

[Kathemy]

Gotham posted 0.7 prelim now (+0.1) 

I guess it could be worse...

[Danielg342]

I've always said that there will be a S5 in some capacity, probably to at least get to 100 episodes. This would mean a S5 of at least 12 episodes, and I could see FOX ordering that many to give the show a proper closure.

Remember, David Mazsouz is 18 next February...what better way to show that he's now a man by showing Bruce donning the Batsuit for the first time?

[Kostgard]

5 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I believe that the original source is a site called renewcanceltv.com where they reported “an insider” said that Fox has quietly greenlit season five. I have no idea what this site’s track record is as far as accuracy. They also reported that Lucifer was renewed, but one of that show’s producers has said they still haven’t received any news one way or the other (I don’t think anyone associated with Gotham have confirmed or denied this story).

I think people also got excited because a couple days ago Sean Pertwee posted a video on Instagram where he said something like, “Today was my last day of shooting for season four. See everyone in a couple months for season five.” But there’s no telling if they are actually scheduled to come back already or if Sean was just being optimistic. I think we just have to wait to hear the official word from Fox (probably in May).

Updating my own post here - looks like Sean responded to someone asking on Twitter if they were renewed, and he said "It's a positive possibility for now, keep everything crossed. We officially hear early May." So it sounds like they have not received official word yet. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I may just be going extremely loopy, but I thought long ago someone or something mentioned that the show was originally planned with 5ish seasons in mind. ??? It was probably just a crackpot dream of mine though :(, but considering how the seasons and storylines have played out, ending after season 4 or 5 seems reasonable. Heck, the season 3 finale would have served as a pretty solid finale, imo. Anyways, I'd love for a season 5 so my fingers are crossed.

Edited March 24, 2018 by HoodlumSheep

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ben McKenzie discusses Gotham:

[tv echo]

Network Renewals 2018: What’s Safe, What’s In Danger & What’s On The Bubble
by Nellie Andreeva • March 27, 2018 6:44pm
http://deadline.com/2018/03/network-renewals-agents-of-shield-izombie-scorpion-the-last-man-on-earth-bubble-1202352573/

Quote

We are on the cusp of the annual flurry of broadcast renewals and cancellations. CBS just kicked off the proceedings today with the first multiple renewals so far this season — for freshman dramas SEAL Team and S.W.A.T. Here is a look at the broadcast scripted series whose fate has not been determined yet, along with assessment of their chances. The assessment is done somewhat in a vacuum as some of the renewal decisions will depend on the strength of the networks’ pilots and a number of them will come down to a network’s ability to make a deal with an outside studio. You can stay up to date with the status of current TV series with Deadline’s Series Renewal Status Scorecard.
*  *  *
Fox has the most series already renewed for next season, freshmen 9-1-1, The Orville and The Gifted as well as animated comedies The Simpsons, Family Guy and Bob’s Burgers. Of the others, Empire is considered a no-brainer to return. The other Fox drama co-created by Lee Daniels, Star, is looking good, as are the Warner Bros. TV-produced Gotham and Lethal Weapon. The third WBTV series, Lucifer, was a sleeper hit when it launched in January 2016, and then landed an early Season 3 renewal in February 2017. This time around the comic-based drama is on the bubble, and it could go either way. Medical procedural is a genre Fox has been trying to bring back to the network that carried hit drama House. While new midseason entry The Resident has not been a breakout hit the size of ABC’s The Good Doctor, it has showed enough promise and is looking good to get a second season. Despite strong reviews, The Exorcist could not draw a crowd in two seasons and is not expected to continue.

[tv echo]

[tv echo]

Edited April 8, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Shows included in this poll include Gotham...

Cancellation Countdown! Which 7 Shows Do You Most Want Saved?
By Team TVLine / April 27 2018
http://tvline.com/2018/04/27/cancelled-renewed-bubble-show-list-2018-poll-vote/

Quote

Some lingering renew/cancel decisions surely have secretly been made, but many are legitimately still up in the air, likely not to be locked in until May 11 — the Friday before NBC, Fox, ABC, CBS and then The CW announce their schedules for the 2018-19 TV season.

If only for cathartic reasons, here is one… last… chance… to let your voices be heard. TVLine has listed below dozens of dramas and comedies whose fates have yet to be officially announced. Review the choices and then vote for your “Hopefully Lucky 7” — up to seven shows you most hope get good news instead of… the hook.

Edited April 27, 2018 by tv echo

[Danielg342]

On 27/04/2018 at 5:56 PM, tv echo said:

Shows included in this poll include Gotham...

Cancellation Countdown! Which 7 Shows Do You Most Want Saved?
By Team TVLine / April 27 2018
http://tvline.com/2018/04/27/cancelled-renewed-bubble-show-list-2018-poll-vote/

Gotham is seventh in that poll, behind Criminal Minds and ahead of The Resident and Designated Survivor, both virtually deadlocked at eighth.

[Kathemy]

Rumor mill has it the show will be cancelled by Fox by the upfronts. "Insider info". Within quotes because it's not really confirmed to be an insider account, but...

Yeah, I believe it.

[Danielg342]

3 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Rumor mill has it the show will be cancelled by Fox by the upfronts. "Insider info". Within quotes because it's not really confirmed to be an insider account, but...

Yeah, I believe it.

Source?

[Kathemy]

23 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Source?

+

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotham/comments/8f8eca/spoilers_insider_info/ (many spoilers if this is legit.)

[Danielg342]

4 hours ago, Kathemy said:

+

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotham/comments/8f8eca/spoilers_insider_info/ (many spoilers if this is legit.)

Thanks.

I have a hard time believing it. This same poster suggested that the writers were "going all out" because they "knew cancellation was imminent" when those scripts would have been written before the end of the 2017 calendar year and filmed and processed at the end of March. At that time, Gotham was a better lock for renewal than it is now.

[Kathemy]

19 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Thanks.

I have a hard time believing it. This same poster suggested that the writers were "going all out" because they "knew cancellation was imminent" when those scripts would have been written before the end of the 2017 calendar year and filmed and processed at the end of March. At that time, Gotham was a better lock for renewal than it is now.

It wouldn't be the first time Gotham's doctored the script during the season.

Anyway, even if we could say that's just "personal opinion", there's this:

Quote

 

[–]Dlc5isreal3 3 points 5 days ago 

Ok. Thank god they don’t continue the split personality thing. Also How Similar is The Joker too Animated Series joker and others or Jerome?

[–][deleted] 8 points 5 days ago 

Not very, he doesn't laugh as much or tell as many jokes, his voice is lower, quieter and more steady, he's very sarcastic and doesn't use prank props or toys the way Jerome would, he behaves like a 1920s gangster, he's like Jack Nicholson's Joker before he became the Joker.

 

This was written before the accidental episode 21 promo was released, and from Jeremiah's behavior in that clip, it all checks out.

I think we need to entertain the notion that this is a legitimate source.

[Kostgard]

The source could be legitimate (I'm not an insider myself, so I have no idea). Based on the ratings it is certainly plausible, if not probable. 

The only pieces that make me doubt is the source said that the writers' room was quiet for the past month and that was an indicator of cancellation. Well, it should be quiet. This is hiatus time for them. They don't really go back to work until they know there is still a show to work on. Unless they meant that even the producers/studio people who would normally be working during this time are not, then that didn't make a ton of sense to me. The other piece is if a show's production is anticipating that the show will be canceled and they are acting accordingly, that sort of news usually leaks out in Hollywood. People talk (like this person on reddit). People notice that Gotham writers/producers are suddenly sending their resumes out. There are signs that indicate a cancellation is happening that people pick up on, and so far that source is the only one reporting that. And so far some of the major Hollywood publications - Deadline, Entertainment Weekly, The Hollywood Reporter - are all still saying that it is a "safe bet" for renewal. You'd think that if production had for all intents and purposes shut down, that would be the word on the street and one of the Hollywood rags would have picked up on it.

But that's just my not-at-all-an-expert take on it. That source could very well be legit and completely correct in their statements. 

[Kathemy]

And then there's this.

Quote

 

[–]Kwilly462 5 points 5 days ago 

What color is his hair if it's not green? Just red?

[–][deleted] 6 points 5 days ago 

Black, very black.

 

Checks out too, now.

Anyway in all my years talking shows on internet fora since the dawn of the internet I've made up some thumb rules to determine a legitimate source.

Among others:

• Posts highly detailed spoilers that can be proven or disproved as the promotional material is released.
• Will engage with other posters to fill out the blanks and will not contradict himself.
• Presents a story that sounds reasonable given what we already know about the show.
• Will state clearly where his knowledge begins and ends and again, will not contradict himself on this.
• Will not write multipage fanfictions about Tyrion reaming Jaime up the ass and present it as spoilers.

The less popular a show, the more likely a source will turn out to be real. Clickbait trolls are busy with Game of Thrones.

With the latest news, there's no doubt in my mind this source is legitimate.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Kathemy
ETA

[Kostgard]

I do think that if Fox doesn't renew it the only place it would resurface would be on the WB streaming service (for all the reasons mentioned above) - though I do wonder how the Netlix deal factors into that. I highly doubt the CW or anyone else would pick it up. Well, we'll know within a week.

[Kathemy]

4 hours ago, Kostgard said:

I do think that if Fox doesn't renew it the only place it would resurface would be on the WB streaming service (for all the reasons mentioned above) - though I do wonder how the Netlix deal factors into that. I highly doubt the CW or anyone else would pick it up. Well, we'll know within a week.

If WB wants to it'll tell CW to take it, suck it up and learn to like it.

[Danielg342]

In any case, even if he knows spoilers from the writers' room, I doubt he's in any position to actually know if cancellation is imminent or not. Likely the only ones that really know at this stage are FOX execs.

[darkestboy]

Right now, it's 50/50 but I can still see FOX being tempted with a twelve episode final season that gets to show Batman in some capacity. 

They'd almost be mad not to.

[Danielg342]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/thursday-final-ratings-may-3-2018/

Gotham just barely missed a series low this week.

I do have to wonder how this season went from averaging 0.85 to 0.6...usually the decline in-season isn't that big. Maybe this last hiatus made some watchers abandon ship?

Edited May 5, 2018 by Danielg342

[scarynikki12]

What are the delayed numbers? The CW DC shows have all lost live viewers but are solid on delayed views, guaranteeing renewal. If the delayed numbers are good it can work in Gotham’s favor. 

[Kathemy]

4 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

What are the delayed numbers? The CW DC shows have all lost live viewers but are solid on delayed views, guaranteeing renewal. If the delayed numbers are good it can work in Gotham’s favor. 

If CW cancelled all shows Gotham's rating or lower they wouldn't have any left.

[Danielg342]

5 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

What are the delayed numbers? The CW DC shows have all lost live viewers but are solid on delayed views, guaranteeing renewal. If the delayed numbers are good it can work in Gotham’s favor. 

The delayed numbers don't really matter much when it comes to renewal, since only viewers watching live are actually watching ads (since they have no choice). I know networks like to tout it, but that's just so they can write positive-sounding press releases.

[Miss Dee]

You can't compare the CW numbers to the other networks because they have a totally different business model. (I believe the CW was the only network not to lose money for the 2016-2017 season, BTW.)

Viewers' watching habits are another thing. I would suspect Gotham is like most shows and viewers are migrating from live television to DVR/streaming.

Does Fox release the live + 7 numbers for its shows? I know the CW does.

[superloislane]

17 hours ago, Miss Dee said:

You can't compare the CW numbers to the other networks because they have a totally different business model.

Yeah the CW is totally different - I believe they get a lot of funding from CBS and they renew low-rated shows for syndication so they can be sold elsewhere for CBS. That's why they have renewed shows that are down as low as 0.1-ratings don't matter a whole lot there. There are many different ways a show can be renewed other than just ratings-Elementary kept getting very low ratings but I believe it had a very lucrative deal internationally so they kept renewing it (thank God because I love that show!). It was said Once Upon A Time was renewed for its ridiculous and truly awful seventh season because Netflix put up some cash for it (Once has been huge on that site for years but I guess the seventh season killed it everywhere since it's now been cancelled!). Ratings are a huge part of the renewal obviously but it is compared to shows on its own network, not shows on other networks and it depends on the day it airs etc...there are lots of ways networks decide on renewal and cancellation.

[Lady Calypso]

Hi folks! Just a reminder that mild spoilers are ok, but they should either be tagged or taken to the appropriate Spoilers and Speculation thread.

Thanks everyone! 

[jhlipton]

On 5/5/2018 at 8:01 PM, Danielg342 said:

The delayed numbers don't really matter much when it comes to renewal, since only viewers watching live are actually watching ads (since they have no choice). I know networks like to tout it, but that's just so they can write positive-sounding press releases.

As I understand it, the Nielsen ratings matter most.

Waaaay down the line is On Demand, which also has ads you can't skip.  Then comes Hulu, and Netflix / Amazon if they buy whole seasons.

I don't think live viewers, other than Nielsen families, are measured, so they don't count.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Cameron Monaghan discusses Gotham:

[Kathemy]

Lucifer, Brooklyn 99 cancelled.

[Kostgard]

There are just two dramas and two comedies waiting to hear their fate (and technically, Bob's Burgers and Family Guy, but I don't think they are in any danger). The two comedies are shaky (Ghosted, which got yanked from the schedule for retooling, and LA to Vegas, which got the same ratings as the comedies they just canceled). Gotham and Lethal Weapon on the drama side.

A Buzzfeed reporter tweeted today that she heard things are looking good for Gotham and LW (with a recast co-lead actor), and (in non-Fox related news) if anyone is a fan, she said didn't look good iZombie.

Grain of salt and all. We'll see. But they sure are waiting until the 11th hour.

[Kathemy]

iZombie got renewed, in other words, seriously hurting her credibility.

[RandomWatcher]

Gotham's fate rests on whether on or  not Lethal Weapon is able to find a new lead

[Kostgard]

I just sort of checked out emotionally with this renewal decision, because it feels super-stupid. Gotham’s fate hinges on whether or not LW can find a new lead? Lord. Here’s the thing - they knew this guy (LW lead actor) was trouble. The wrote the finale in a way where they could get rid of his character. They stopped filming at least a month or so ago. They still haven’t found a new lead (because everyone they’ve offered it to has passed on it), even though Fox has to present their new schedule on Monday. They think LW, a show that is, admittedly, getting better ratings than Gotham (though at times, not by much), but it also experienced a huge dip in ratings between season one and two, will do just as well as it did this season with a new lead (something that is very much a gamble)? What. Ever. I’d rather they straight up cancel Gotham for ratings reasons. That, at least, would appear to be solely a business decision and not these stupid shenanigans.

Also, Fox brought back Last Man Standing in a lazy and obviously hope for Roseanne-esque ratings. 

I will be thrilled if the show comes back. But with decision-making like this on display, I’m walking away from this nonsense.

[tennisgurl]

This cancellation season has been freaking brutal. No wonder I saw some sites referring to yesterday as Bloody Friday. Gotham at least made it through that day.

Edited May 12, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Kostgard]

12 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

 

3 hours ago, Kostgard said:

Also, Fox brought back Last Man Standing in a lazy and obviously hope for Roseanne-esque ratings. 

Last Man Standing has no affect on Gotham.  Last Man Standing replaces a sitcom that has already been cancelled by Fox.

 

Oh, I know that. I just thought it was gross and it’s kinda the icing on the cake for me as far as Fox is concerned.

[Danielg342]

40 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Perhaps the best that Gotham fans can hope for, is that Gotham gets a twelve episode mid-season replacement order.  That would air after the NFL season is over.

I believe that's what the ultimate decision will be based on- whether or not Gotham gets a full season or twelve or thirteen more episodes to wrap things up.

I'm personally on the "wrap things up" side because I'm not sure where the show can go now that we've essentially got The Joker running around and ruining things in the city. I really don't think there's anything left for the show to do except gear up Bruce for his final fight (of the series). Whether or not it gets 22 episodes or only 12, I think S5 should be the last season.

[Kathemy]

Will repeat myself, for all the good it will do.

Gotham ending on a cliffhanger after having just reached the syndication threshold seems unthinkable to me.

But I'm out of nails to bite.

[Danielg342]

3 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Gotham ending on a cliffhanger after having just reached the syndication threshold seems unthinkable to me.

Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior ended its first season with a cliffhanger and CBS cancelled it. Mind you, the CMSB guys perhaps thought they'd get to resolve the cliffhanger on the parent Criminal Minds show and that didn't happen.

Also, My Name is Earl also ended without a resolution after four seasons, as the showrunners were blindsided by the cancellation announcement. That show never did get a resolution (apart from a reference to one on Raising Hope).

So I'm not certain that Gotham ending on a cliffhanger assures it from cancellation. Of course, I also believe Gotham is a bit more "favoured" at FOX than other shows are, so perhaps the showrunners got assurance that, no matter what happens, they will get a resolution.

[mtlchick]

4 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Gotham ending on a cliffhanger after having just reached the syndication threshold seems unthinkable to me.

Warner Bros also snagged worldwide distribution deal with Netflix before the show even begun, which was unheard of at the time.  That said, Lucifer ends on a cliffhanger and look what happened there. 

 

It sucks that this show hangs in the balance not based on its merits, but on the fate on another show that made the news as of late "for all the wrong reasons."  I saw many people write on message boards that they'll pass on LW no matter what, even though it's been made clear that the actor has some major issues to work on (and on where you read, Damon Wayans wasn't fun to be around either.)   I do hope that it does come back, gets a short final season to wrap things up (or wrap them up where Bruce finally becomes the Bat) and runs the show with NO BREAKS.  The scheduling this show received was a death sentence in itself. 

[Danielg342]

34 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

It sucks that this show hangs in the balance not based on its merits, but on the fate on another show that made the news as of late "for all the wrong reasons."

What gets me is that before Lethal Weapon had its issues, Gotham was still a "bubble" show, a show FOX seemed confident in renewing if it could find a way to do so. Yet the way the chatter is now, Gotham would have been a surefire cancellation if Clayne Crawford wasn't a jackass.

What changed? Are the LW producers trying to play games by getting its fans to turn on Gotham and pin the blame on our show for their show's cancellation? Are the Gotham producers trying to gain some kind of leverage with FOX or Warner Brothers by suggesting they're "playing favourites"?

I feel like there's way more to this story than what we're being told.

[Miss Dee]

The stupid thing is: there's no way they could ever hire anyone who'd keep the ratings for LW up! Maybe if they'd done what so many franchises do and kept the name while severely retooling the main characters from the getgo, they could get away with a recasting.  Maybe if Wayans and Crawford had been kind of meh from the start, they could get away with a recasting.

But the amazing thing about LW in its first season was how thoroughly fans became invested into thinking of those two as Murtaugh and Riggs. Different than the movies, sure, because they had to sustain the characterization for more than a two-hour action fest, but it was a believable take. As a fan, there's no way now to remove one of those two from the equation and still buy it as Lethal Weapon! It's going to tank in the ratings faster than a Mack truck over a bridge! And for *this* we're going to lose Gotham?! Ugh, it's so bloody frustrating!!

[Danielg342]

Sean William Scott, best known as Steve Stifler from the American Pie movies, is replacing Clayne Crawford for Season Three of Lethal Weapon:

http://deadline.com/2018/05/seann-william-scott-cast-lethal-weapon-replace-clayne-crawford-out-series-renewed-season-3-fox-1202388143/

According to the article, as of yet, there is still no decision on Gotham.

[Proteus]

Gotham may be renewed according to several reports for a 13 episode season to at least reach 100 episodes.

[mtlchick]

https://t.co/4Jesd9MTC7

 

Renewed for a final season! WOOT!  It's the last show I was waiting on. Glad to see it's getting a proper send off. 

[Kostgard]

Good. I’m glad they pulled it off and the show gets a proper send off after all these stupid shenanigans. 

And mid-season return means between 10-13 episodes, which I also think is a good thing. This show has a problem with meandering and spinning its wheels on storylines. This way they have to keep the story tight. 

[srpturtle80]

I am so relieved!