Spoilers With Speculation

[Aeryn13]

7 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Have we figured out how Mark P./Lucifer fits in all this. An actress posted a pic of her with him and the boys on set and talked about the finale and Mark P has said he is in it. She later removed the pic. 

Do you know if she said the Finale? Because I still can`t quite make out if he will be in ep 19 or 20. 

[Myrelle]

17 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Or it could be he has to convince Dean to let go. 

Oh, I have no doubt that this will be it for the finale.

It's just a matter of how they're going to execute it.

17 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Even at this point it is very difficult to tell how episode 19 goes. It is supposed to be the Season Finale, meaning the entire Chuck plot needs to be wrapped up. I could see the people only slowly returning (maybe none of the characters we know but you just see people) at the very end and this will lead into episode 20.

Which is even harder to predict without knowing how 19 goes. Now the big "heroics" or whatever should happen in ep 19. So I`m kinda "hm" on Jared declaring episode 20 his most favourite. Because that looks like the emotional mop-up job.

IA that this week's episode will be the pivotal one,  but I'm also thinking that we might be left in the dark as to what happened to the brothers, until 20 when it will all be cleared up and we will get all the "returns".

 

 

[ILoveReading]

Just now, Aeryn13 said:

Do you know if she said the Finale? Because I still can`t quite make out if he will be in ep 19 or 20. 

I remember something in a virtual panel about him commenting on having read the finale, and that lead to a lot of speculation that hes in it.  I hope not because if he is, I'll be convinced of a Swan Song 2.0 situation. 

[Aeryn13]

4 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I remember something in a virtual panel about him commenting on having read the finale, and that lead to a lot of speculation that hes in it.  I hope not because if he is, I'll be convinced of a Swan Song 2.0 situation. 

I think the Finale is likely gonna be a Sam-focused ep. If Dean dies, yes, it could be about him "letting go". Though I have no idea how Pellegrino fits into it. Especially since he apparently said his last scene is in the bunker with Cas and Jack. Buzzuh?

But it can`t quite be 5.22 because whatever world-saving wrap up happens in 19. If Dean gets a good role there, I`m okay with whatever afterwards.

Imdb continues to list "Chuck" and "Amara" for ep 20. Flashback footage? A quickie the actors shot earlier? Just their voices?

Then there was apparently a three-day fight scene, maybe that scene in that barn? We didn`t have that yet, right? 

There are speculations about a character only listed as "mother". Now either that just means she plays a mother and gets no lines or it is some nevertofore heard about primordial being. Introduced in the Series Finale.  

[ahrtee]

Remember when speculation used to be fun?  When we wanted to speculate on things because they thought they would intrigue, amaze and/or delight us and not to make us lower our expectations? 😩

 

[Bergamot]

23 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Have we figured out how Mark P./Lucifer fits in all this. An actress posted a pic of her with him and the boys on set and talked about the finale and Mark P has said he is in it. She later removed the pic. 

 

15 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Do you know if she said the Finale? Because I still can`t quite make out if he will be in ep 19 or 20. 

I would bet on it being episode 19 for one reason -- that is the episode written by Buckner and Ross-Leming, right? And I think it was clear that the only reason we had that whole stupid storyline with Nick surviving the death of Lucifer and hanging around in the most tiresome way possible for all of Season 14, was because Miss Eugenie has this enormous crush on Mark P.  I can see her saying, "Oh, we must bring back Mark one more time, he is just so wonderful!!!" even though it seems obvious to me that Lucifer's story should have ended many seasons ago, and that the last thing the show needs is to bring him back AGAIN.

[ILoveReading]

10 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

There are speculations about a character only listed as "mother".

I feel like with Mother, vampire and officer there is likely to be one last hunt. I'm just not sure if the hunt is someone's heaven or if Jack left one last creature on earth for Sam and Dean to hunt.  Then at the end the brothers say goodbye

That would fit with Jensen saying he hopes people look at the bigger picture rather than a snap judgment.  A snap judgment would be Dean needs to let go of Sam to let him grow up, but the larger picture would be they want different things out of life. 

I just have no idea how Jack, Lucifer and maybe Misha might fit in. 

Alex said he has no dialogue.  So it might be part of a montage, kind of the last 5 minutes is basically a clip show of their greatest hits. Then the final good bye

[Aeryn13]

3 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

 

I would bet on it being episode 19 for one reason -- that is the episode written by Buckner and Ross-Leming, right? And I think it was clear that the only reason we had that whole stupid storyline with Nick surviving the death of Lucifer and hanging around in the most tiresome way possible for all of Season 14, was because Miss Eugenie has this enormous crush on Mark P.  I can see her saying, "Oh, we must bring back Mark one more time, he is just so wonderful!!!" even though it seems obvious to me that Lucifer's story should have ended many seasons ago, and that the last thing the show needs is to bring him back AGAIN.

I remember going by his twitter he did arrive home a few days later than Rob Benedict wrapped but he could have just stayed in Vancouver a tad longer of course. I remember the pic but I can not recall what the actress looked like exactly. Imdb lists a female guest star for 19 and one for 20. I think it was the one for 20, though. 

Something Jensen said about Easter Eggs was that there was something in it that Jared did that might call back to the Pilot for people who remembered. Now if that is in their - final - scene in the Pilot clothes on a bridge, the first thing that comes to mind would be how Sam shoved Dean and said something like "don`t you say that, not you". I think at least. I remember the shove because they were arguing about Mary. 

Now IF Dean is already dead there and just hangs around as a ghost and the ep is about him letting go as well as getting Sam to accept to let go (with lots of you`re the man speeches), you could have a similar moment in the Series Finale. 

Just some wonky spec here. 

In the end, like I said, if the world-saving gives Dean a good role in 19, I`m going to be pretty lenient with 20. I have no beef if he dies a hero`s death.       

[Casseiopeia]

1 minute ago, Aeryn13 said:

Sam shoved Dean and said something like "don`t you say that, not you".

Actually Dean shoved Sam and said "don't talk about her like that" when Sam said that Mom was gone.

Whatever the finale for the season or the series will be considering the writers I'm going to guess both episodes will not be worth the 15 year investment.

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Actually Dean shoved Sam and said "don't talk about her like that" when Sam said that Mom was gone.

Oh God, you`re right. Of course. So that can`t be it since Jensen said it was something specifically Jared, well in that case Sam, did. 

[tessathereaper]

31 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Oh God, you`re right. Of course. So that can`t be it since Jensen said it was something specifically Jared, well in that case Sam, did. 

You know strangely that is one of my favorite scenes because that is the moment that I went "oh that surprised me" with Jensen's acting.  He shoves Sam but rather than yelling at him and being angry as one would expect, he suddenly gentles and sort of quietly and sadly says "don't talk about her like that". His first scene made me go "How can a man who looks like this exist and I'm just learning about it now"/"Oh I like his voice it's deep for a WB show" and that scene on the bridge specifically made me notice his acting, it was also the first scene where I got this real feeling that Dean was used to taking care of Sam in more than just a big brother/little brother way.

Edited November 9, 2020 by tessathereaper

[Bergamot]

33 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Oh God, you`re right. Of course. So that can`t be it since Jensen said it was something specifically Jared, well in that case Sam, did. 

Hmm. Something that Sam did on the bridge in the Pilot.

• Stomps on Dean's foot.
• Tells Dean he smells like a toilet.

(I love the two of them in the Pilot! 😊 ) Well, maybe it is something Sam does in the Pilot, but not on the bridge.

I wish we had more clues about the last two episodes to consider.

[Casseiopeia]

 

[ahrtee]

18 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

 

My only WTF comment is regarding Misha's assertion that with Jack, "the Winchesters and Cas for the first time are stepping into the role of parent and caretaker."  *sigh*  How quickly they forget.  

[Bobcatkitten]

The actress who posted the pic with Mark P and J2 is Kimberley Sustad. She was in one previous episode. Not even sure she had lines. But it was a long time ago and the photo is clear new. It was posted Sept. 4.

 

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

My only WTF comment is regarding Misha's assertion that with Jack, "the Winchesters and Cas for the first time are stepping into the role of parent and caretaker."  *sigh*  How quickly they forget.  

Maybe he meant for the Winchesters and Cas together? Or for Sam and Cas only?

Edited November 9, 2020 by catrox14
clarifying comment

[ILoveReading]

ThT

Take this with a grain of salt, of course.  I saw it posted on another site and couldn't find the original source.  But it does sound plausible and explain why Jared loves the finale. 

Honestly, I wouldn't hate this as long as Dean plays a part in the final fight, like distracting or weakening God so Sam can take him out.  But I'm not sure about that because the last time the net work said no.

The Charlie/Bobby thing is true.  That was confirmed.

Spoilers could support the rest, but I think covid cancelled a lot of cameos.

But if we see a lot of famous faces, it could explain Jack being there.

Edited November 10, 2020 by ILoveReading

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

ThT

Take this with a grain of salt, of course.  I saw it posted on another site and couldn't find the original source.  But it does sound plausible and explain why Jared loves the finale. 

Honestly, I wouldn't hate this as long as Dean plays a part in the final fight, like distracting or weakening God so Sam can take him out.  But I'm not sure about that because the last time the net work said no.

So actual Bobby and Charlie both who have always been closer to Dean are brought back and Dean spends the rest of eternity just driving around heaven? I hate it.

[Smad]

13 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

ThT

Take this with a grain of salt, of course.  I saw it posted on another site and couldn't find the original source.  But it does sound plausible and explain why Jared loves the finale. 

Honestly, I wouldn't hate this as long as Dean plays a part in the final fight, like distracting or weakening God so Sam can take him out.  But I'm not sure about that because the last time the net work said no.

The major problem here is that there needs to pay off for Amara being in God or one with God or whatever. They made a big deal mentioning their (Dean and Amara) connection over and over in the last 2 episodes Amara was in. If that connection holds true even while she is in God, then this can't happen. Amara can't hurt Dean and she won't let Dean be hurt, those are the parameters of the connection.

Also how does restoring some good things that happened between the brothers kill God in any way? Not to mention that they have no one powerful enough for said restoration. You'd need to be God to do that.

And the fanservice, I want to vomit. One of the biggest problems with this show is fanservice. All these characters and their cameos because 'the fans demand it'.

And Dean just dying and in heaven, screw that. Much as I hate the Cas speech from last episode but he basically elevated Dean to God-hood. I'm sorry but the whole 'you care so much' 'you take care of everybody' 'you are humanity's best' or whatever, sounds like the perfect new God for me. What's the point of that speech, other than freaking fanservice, if you just kill Dean off and dump him in memor-ex?

And if anyone was going to get to experience life and deserve to do so, it's Dean and not Sam. Other than that year he spend with Lisa and Ben, Dean has never had a chance to live just for himself and have an actual life.

[gonzosgirrl]

IMO, the absolute worst fate for Dean is Memorex heaven.  He's the guy who already chose to leave a fake ideal life behind in WIAWSNB. Sticking him in some fake heaven-scape would be a huge disservice to the character.  So yeah, that's probably exactly what Badd will do. 

[DeeDee79]

14 minutes ago, Smad said:

And if anyone was going to get to experience life and deserve to do so, it's Dean and not Sam. Other than that year he spend with Lisa and Ben, Dean has never had a chance to live just for himself and have an actual life.

I can't agree more with this.

7 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

IMO, the absolute worst fate for Dean is Memorex heaven.  He's the guy who already chose to leave a fake ideal life behind in WIAWSNB. Sticking him in some fake heaven-scape would be a huge disservice to the character.  So yeah, that's probably exactly what Badd will do. 

I agree. I would absolutely hate this kind of ending. Dean deserves better.

[Lemuria]

Quote

To me, this totally reads like a piece of Sam fan fiction.  The only one who appears to do anything or get anything is Sam.  Dean dies doing what, exactly?  Who knows--it doesn't seem to be important.  Where's Jack?  (And if Nougat Kid is this unimportant, why was he wrecking the show for three years?)  Where's Michael and Lucifer?  Where's Amara?  Sam can't bring Dean back from Heaven because...reasons, but Bobby and Charlie can come back?

And Jessica comes back for no reason except to be really cruel to her because Sam has moved on (well, he already did for the dyspeptic drunken veterinarian) but it's probably her fault since she apparently never celebrated his birthday, if we are to believe the flashbacks in Season 8.  Or maybe the show intends to end with a menage a trois.  Sam the God Killer clearly deserves more than one woman.

While Dean just drives endlessly around Heaven.  Tooling down an empty road in your Baby may be great for an afternoon but for all eternity?  And which episode was it in season 1 where Dean drove off by himself into the sunset just to enjoy himself?

I call "feh"to this.

[Myrelle]

18 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

ThT

Take this with a grain of salt, of course.  I saw it posted on another site and couldn't find the original source.  But it does sound plausible and explain why Jared loves the finale. 

Honestly, I wouldn't hate this as long as Dean plays a part in the final fight, like distracting or weakening God so Sam can take him out.  But I'm not sure about that because the last time the net work said no.

The Charlie/Bobby thing is true.  That was confirmed.

Spoilers could support the rest, but I think covid cancelled a lot of cameos.

But if we see a lot of famous faces, it could explain Jack being there.

I'd be glad if the apple pie life wasn't forced on Dean again; better if he perishes helping to take out Chuck.

 

[Casseiopeia]

17 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

To me, this totally reads like a piece of Sam fan fiction.  The only one who appears to do anything or get anything is Sam.  Dean dies doing what, exactly?  Who knows--it doesn't seem to be important.  Where's Jack?  (And if Nougat Kid is this unimportant, why was he wrecking the show for three years?)  Where's Michael and Lucifer?  Where's Amara?  Sam can't bring Dean back from Heaven because...reasons, but Bobby and Charlie can come back?

And Jessica comes back for no reason except to be really cruel to her because Sam has moved on (well, he already did for the dyspeptic drunken veterinarian) but it's probably her fault since she apparently never celebrated his birthday, if we are to believe the flashbacks in Season 8.  Or maybe the show intends to end with a menage a trois.  Sam the God Killer clearly deserves more than one woman.

While Dean just drives endlessly around Heaven.  Tooling down an empty road in your Baby may be great for an afternoon but for all eternity?  And which episode was it in season 1 where Dean drove off by himself into the sunset just to enjoy himself?

I call "feh"to this.

If this is true no wonder Jensen had issues with it. But I can see Dabb  throwing everything at the wall and just walking away.

[Myrelle]

4 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

If this is true no wonder Jensen had issues with it. But I can see Dabb  throwing everything at the wall and just walking away.

Wasn't the end of S11 a royal mess like this, too; and it had to be re-written a few times?

 

 

[Casseiopeia]

Just now, Myrelle said:

Wasn't the end of S11 a royal mess like this, too; and it had to be re-written a few times?

 

 

Dabb conferenced for over an hour with the actors to come up with a script.  It looked like the work of a bunch of inexperienced writers.

[Myrelle]

Just now, Casseiopeia said:

Dabb conferenced for over an hour with the actors to come up with a script.  It looked like the work of a bunch of inexperienced writers.

So there's a precedent then.

Geez, how the hell is this guy still running this show?

[gonzosgirrl]

42 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

To me, this totally reads like a piece of Sam fan fiction.  The only one who appears to do anything or get anything is Sam.  Dean dies doing what, exactly?  Who knows--it doesn't seem to be important.  Where's Jack?  (And if Nougat Kid is this unimportant, why was he wrecking the show for three years?)  Where's Michael and Lucifer?  Where's Amara?  Sam can't bring Dean back from Heaven because...reasons, but Bobby and Charlie can come back?

And Jessica comes back for no reason except to be really cruel to her because Sam has moved on (well, he already did for the dyspeptic drunken veterinarian) but it's probably her fault since she apparently never celebrated his birthday, if we are to believe the flashbacks in Season 8.  Or maybe the show intends to end with a menage a trois.  Sam the God Killer clearly deserves more than one woman.

While Dean just drives endlessly around Heaven.  Tooling down an empty road in your Baby may be great for an afternoon but for all eternity?  And which episode was it in season 1 where Dean drove off by himself into the sunset just to enjoy himself?

I call "feh"to this.

So maybe Badd let his sycophant  production assistant protege ghost-write the finale. Fan fiction is her speciality. 

[Aeryn13]

4 hours ago, Lemuria said:

To me, this totally reads like a piece of Sam fan fiction.  The only one who appears to do anything or get anything is Sam.  Dean dies doing what, exactly?  Who knows--it doesn't seem to be important.  Where's Jack?  (And if Nougat Kid is this unimportant, why was he wrecking the show for three years?)  Where's Michael and Lucifer?  Where's Amara?  Sam can't bring Dean back from Heaven because...reasons, but Bobby and Charlie can come back?

And Jessica comes back for no reason except to be really cruel to her because Sam has moved on (well, he already did for the dyspeptic drunken veterinarian) but it's probably her fault since she apparently never celebrated his birthday, if we are to believe the flashbacks in Season 8.  Or maybe the show intends to end with a menage a trois.  Sam the God Killer clearly deserves more than one woman.

While Dean just drives endlessly around Heaven.  Tooling down an empty road in your Baby may be great for an afternoon but for all eternity?  And which episode was it in season 1 where Dean drove off by himself into the sunset just to enjoy himself?

I call "feh"to this.

But it sounds exactly like what Dabb would do. Now the only thing that was cut were some guest stars in a montage. We know that already.

Of course they couldn't make the heroics equal that one time. Guess that's where the Amara possession comes in.

Btw, how would the Finale work then? Where does the final scene on the bridge take place? The fight scene with both of them? That pie-eating scene? All in Dean's heaven? Is he supposed to be dying the entire episode?

The concept of Dean in heaven itself, well,.if he died, where else would he go at this point? So that in and of itself was expected.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Aeryn13

[NougatJack]

But Dabb said Sam and Dean won´t be seperated at the end:

https://screenrant.com/supernatural-season-15-sam-dean-together-ending-confirmed/

 

[Aeryn13]

2 hours ago, NougatJack said:

But Dabb said Sam and Dean won´t be seperated at the end:

https://screenrant.com/supernatural-season-15-sam-dean-together-ending-confirmed/

 

No, he didn't. The way he was cagey and worded it like "if they end in the same place or the same way remains to be seen" is almost a giveaway for different endings. This article just puts a spin on it but his actual words look different.

Ending it together and ending up together are not the same thing.

So basically Sam is Tony with Cap's ending. Dean is... Natasha? 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Aeryn13

[PAForrest]

10 hours ago, Lemuria said:

To me, this totally reads like a piece of Sam fan fiction.  The only one who appears to do anything or get anything is Sam.  Dean dies doing what, exactly?  Who knows--it doesn't seem to be important.  Where's Jack?  (And if Nougat Kid is this unimportant, why was he wrecking the show for three years?)  Where's Michael and Lucifer?  Where's Amara?  Sam can't bring Dean back from Heaven because...reasons, but Bobby and Charlie can come back?

And Jessica comes back for no reason except to be really cruel to her because Sam has moved on (well, he already did for the dyspeptic drunken veterinarian) but it's probably her fault since she apparently never celebrated his birthday, if we are to believe the flashbacks in Season 8.  Or maybe the show intends to end with a menage a trois.  Sam the God Killer clearly deserves more than one woman.

While Dean just drives endlessly around Heaven.  Tooling down an empty road in your Baby may be great for an afternoon but for all eternity?  And which episode was it in season 1 where Dean drove off by himself into the sunset just to enjoy himself?

I call "feh"to this.

We're discussing this on another forum, and it was pointed out that this particular person always claims to see finales long before they are even completed and it always turns out to be a lie. So I'm not putting any stock in this.

Not that I don't expect Drabb's finale to be something as by-the-numbers and boring as this, but I agree with Lemuria that all this is lifted straight from a Sam-stan wish list. You noticed Princess McGuffin isn't mentioned at all and, sorry, he's Drabb's insert - we already know he's going to play a role, it ain't going to be all Sam, if it's Sam at all. Jessica and Yellow Eyes coming back is random as hell. A lot of Sam-stans have always resented that Dean got to kill YE. Yes, we know we see Original Flavor Bobby and Original Flavor Charlie again - but we don't know the context, they could be seen in Heaven. Why would only three people from the past be resurrected and not all the other sad pointless deaths throughout the years?

And Sam having two love interests/wives at the end? Come on. That's just embarrassing.

[Aeryn13]

17 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

We're discussing this on another forum, and it was pointed out that this particular person always claims to see finales long before they are even completed and it always turns out to be a lie. So I'm not putting any stock in this.

Not that I don't expect Drabb's finale to be something as by-the-numbers and boring as this, but I agree with Lemuria that all this is lifted straight from a Sam-stan wish list. You noticed Princess McGuffin isn't mentioned at all and, sorry, he's Drabb's insert - we already know he's going to play a role, it ain't going to be all Sam, if it's Sam at all. Jessica and Yellow Eyes coming back is random as hell. A lot of Sam-stans have always resented that Dean got to kill YE. Yes, we know we see Original Flavor Bobby and Original Flavor Charlie again - but we don't know the context, they could be seen in Heaven. Why would only three people from the past be resurrected and not all the other sad pointless deaths throughout the years?

And Sam having two love interests/wives at the end? Come on. That's just embarrassing.

Oh, that's good to know that they have a history of doing that.

Jessica would be strange because the actress is a lead on the Orville. If she was shooting anything it's her far superior role there. Amd just mentioning her, why?

I'm also not sure Shoshannah Stern is in the Finale.

And even Sam fans don't seem so hot in Eileen as a love interest, certainly not over the still heralded Jessica.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Aeryn13

[Castiels Cat]

5 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

No, he didn't. The way he was cagey and worded it like "if they end in the same place or the same way remains to be seen" is almost a giveaway for different endings. This article just puts a spin on it but his actual words look different.

Ending it together and ending up together are not the same thing.

So basically Sam is Tony with Cap's ending. Dean is... Natasha? 

Yep. I see Dean being the one in it this time and bearing the risk. They spelled out his role in actions and text in the last episode. Also, Chuck is focused on Dean... so much so I wonder if there is going to be an extra reveal. This Dean goes off scripts and redeems other characters with his selfless love. He is so different which has been the source of Chuck's interest. Is there something else...

 

[Castiels Cat]

Omg. I just read that. If Sam kills Hod it will be one of those Forrest Gump kills of his in which Dean does all of the heavy lifting and is brutally beaten. The weapon literally flies into Sam's hands and as Chuck monologues over Dean Sam manages a prick and Chuck keeps over.

One of those...

Why would a reset bring weird random people back.  Butterfly effect however if Jessica comes back I would think a lot more people they knew would pop up. Makes no sense.

[Bobcatkitten]

I fully expect Dean to die and be in heaven. My theory is his heaven will be the early days of hunting, milk runs with his brother - saving people, hunting things. 

 

I would love that. Why would a heaven ending for Dean be bad? 

[BabySpinach]

5 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I fully expect Dean to die and be in heaven. My theory is his heaven will be the early days of hunting, milk runs with his brother - saving people, hunting things. 

 

I would love that. Why would a heaven ending for Dean be bad? 

For me, I see Dean as a force of nature. He has saved the world the most out of all TFW, consistently rejected anyone's attempts to control or change him, and has influenced/stumped many powerful characters on a fundamental level. Tucking him away in heaven where he can no longer affect the real world, where he's basically caged and helpless for all of eternity surrounded only by memories, just doesn't sit well with me.

At this point, given the sheer scale of the impact he's had on the SPN universe and what he represents within it, he's way overdue some sort of permanent cosmic ascension, IMO. With both Cas' and Death's speeches last episode (and Amara possibly still in play within Chuck), it really brought that back into focus for me. 

[Castiels Cat]

9 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

For me, I see Dean as a force of nature. He has saved the world the most out of all TFW, consistently rejected anyone's attempts to control or change him, and has influenced/stumped many powerful characters on a fundamental level. Tucking him away in heaven where he can no longer affect the real world, where he's basically caged and helpless for all of eternity surrounded only by memories, just doesn't sit well with me.

At this point, given the sheer scale of the impact he's had on the SPN universe and what he represents within it, he's way overdue some sort of permanent cosmic ascension, IMO. With both Cas' and Death's speeches last episode (and Amara possibly still in play within Chuck), it really brought that back into focus for me. 

Yes.

I have expect them to go full on Star Wars and have Chuck say... Dean I AM YOUR FATHER. 

THAT is how relevant Dean has been and it would explain Chuck's focus on him.

Bad writing or not... this has been consistent. Chuck is interested in Dean. Many many supernatural beings are interested in Dean. Some are changed for the better by Dean... REDEEMED by knowing him. The King of Hell sacrificed his life for Dean!!!

Dean repeatedly goes off script and in season 5 Chuck indulges him. In season 11 God's own sister is humanized by Dean and learns to love humanity and the world because she bonds with him. Chuck answers his cry for help and Dean is told that he is responsible for the world. Dean chooses how the story ends.

Now this storyline is all about Dean refusing to play ball.

Cas'pre-Death monologues isn't just a Destiel outing... it's a testament to Dean's superpower and his role.

It's a bit much to throwaway at this juncture even for a Badd writer. 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[ILoveReading]

13 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Tucking him away in heaven where he can no longer affect the real world, where he's basically caged and helpless for all of eternity surrounded only by memories, just doesn't sit well with me.

At this point, given the sheer scale of the impact he's had on the SPN universe and what he represents within it, he's way overdue some sort of permanent cosmic ascension, IMO. With both Cas' and Death's speeches last episode (and Amara possibly still in play within Chuck), it really brought that back into focus for me. 

There is one way he can go to Heaven and still affect the world around him.  Dean's soul is strong, what if he's the key to saving Heaven.  That his soul is so full of light that it can power Heaven.   That way he's still a force of nature but he has peace all around him. 

I could see Jensen finding that cheesy because he doesn't' see Dean that way.  So that might have been his objection. 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by ILoveReading

[gonzosgirrl]

31 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I fully expect Dean to die and be in heaven. My theory is his heaven will be the early days of hunting, milk runs with his brother - saving people, hunting things. 

 

I would love that. Why would a heaven ending for Dean be bad? 

Because, if they do it in canon (hahahah, I kill me), we know, and HE knows it's all fake.

ETA: If it's heaven with a purpose, then I can and will enjoy it. If it's an endless loop of successful, milk-run hunts and we're supposed to believe that would heaven enough for Dean (just because he's with presumably-fake Sam), then it's a hard pass from me.

Edited November 10, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Bobcatkitten]

Very interesting. Heaven to me has always been about Dean finding peace and we all know he deserves it. He won't have the constant burden of worry and guilt that has been his life. 

[Bobcatkitten]

16 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Very interesting. Heaven to me has always been about Dean finding peace and we all know he deserves it. He won't have the constant burden of worry and guilt that has been his life. 

And one more thing. They have pulled people out of heaven before. So I guess there is no real finality to me. 

[catrox14]

I don't believe most of those "spoilers". Why would they bring back Jessica? No reason to do so other than it's a full reset of the show, which I really don't want at all.

Dean in Memorex Heaven is a terrible ending for Dean. He already knows that it's fake. And I can't see him being happy hunting on his own forever in fake Heaven. With an occasional pie eating adventure. Because we know that he didn't want to do it alone anymore when he sought out Sam to help him find John. That sounds more like Hell for Dean than Heaven.

I think Dean would rather die on Earth and have his soul be nowhere than Memorex Heaven.  

I wonder if Dean is going to try and get Cas out of the Empty or is going accept it as the final ending for Cas?

[Bobcatkitten]

In my theory Sam is with him hunting. 

 

I agree about some of those spoilers. They make no sense. Half those people absolutely didn't quarantine and shoot during the end. And why would they have done so much advanced shooting? 

[Smad]

Dean has been vehemently against Heaven every time someone tempted him with it. Or thought he'd love it as a reward or what have you. That's been made clear in both the S4 and S5 Finales. Even when he was in Heaven in S5, he didn't buy Pamela's sales pitch and referred to Heaven as Memor-ex. And I don't remember Dean having changed his mind on that in the years since, so Heaven (at this point in time, guy is only 40 for crying out loud) would be among the worst outcomes for him.

 

 

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

At this point, given the sheer scale of the impact he's had on the SPN universe and what he represents within it, he's way overdue some sort of permanent cosmic ascension, IMO. With both Cas' and Death's speeches last episode (and Amara possibly still in play within Chuck), it really brought that back into focus for me. 

 

1 hour ago, Castiels Cat said:

Yes.

I have expect them to go full on Star Wars and have Chuck say... Dean I AM YOUR FATHER. 

THAT is how relevant Dean has been and it would explain Chuck's focus on him.

Bad writing or not... this has been consistent. Chuck is interested in Dean. Many many supernatural beings are interested in Dean. Some are changed for the better by Dean... REDEEMED by knowing him. The King of Hell sacrificed his life for Dean!!!

Dean repeatedly goes off script and in season 5 Chuck indulges him. In season 11 God's own sister is humanized by Dean and learns to love humanity and the world because she bonds with him. Chuck answers his cry for help and Dean is told that he is responsible for the world. Dean chooses how the story ends.

Now this storyline is all about Dean refusing to play ball.

Cas'pre-Death monologues isn't just a Destiel outing... it's a testament to Dean's superpower and his role.

It's a bit much to throwaway at this juncture even for a Badd writer. 

 

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

There is one way he can go to Heaven and still affect the world around him.  Dean's soul is strong, what if he's the key to saving Heaven.  That his soul is so full of light that it can power Heaven.   That way he's still a force of nature but he has peace all around him. 

I could see Jensen finding that cheesy because he doesn't' see Dean that way.  So that might have been his objection. 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Very interesting. Heaven to me has always been about Dean finding peace and we all know he deserves it. He won't have the constant burden of worry and guilt that has been his life. 

Maybe Dean will have to stay in Heaven and Sam will have to stay on Earth to maintain the balance that would keep the reset intact.

And this would absolutely work for me and in addition, it completely sets Dean up as the Christ figure in all of this-even Castiel's speech in last week's episode fits.

The only reason I don't see it happening is because I cannot ever see this bunch writing such an awesome ending for Dean.

Sam? Absolutely. Not Dean,  though.

So maybe it's a foiler with the main characters' names switched out for the most part.

 

13 minutes ago, Smad said:

Dean has been vehemently against Heaven every time someone tempted him with it. Or thought he'd love it as a reward or what have you. That's been made clear in both the S4 and S5 Finales. Even when he was in Heaven in S5, he didn't buy Pamela's sales pitch and referred to Heaven as Memor-ex. And I don't remember Dean having changed his mind on that in the years since, so Heaven (at this point in time, guy is only 40 for crying out loud) would be among the worst outcomes for him.

 

 

If it meant saving the world, Dean would do it and make the best of it AND he would know that Sam was alive and living the life he'd always wanted and dreamed of.

Jensen might not have liked that the brothers were separated or that his character took on the Christ role, but I want this ending now. 😉

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Myrelle
Additions

[PAForrest]

1 minute ago, Myrelle said:

Maybe Dean will have to stay in Heaven and Sam will have to stay on Earth to maintain the balance that would keep the reset intact.

And this would absolutely work for me and in addition, it completely sets Dean up as the Christ figure in all of this-even Castiel's speech in last week's episode fits.

The only reason I don't see it happening is because I cannot ever see this bunch writing such an awesome ending for Dean.

Sam? Absolutely. Not Dean,  though.

So maybe it's a foiler with the main characters' names switched out for the most part.

Yeah, it's hard to believe Drabb would write that important an ending for Dean. But it would be one I could get on board with, even while at the same time I can see what Jensen wouldn't like about even that one - probably because Dean is not doing the work he feels Dean should be doing on Earth, and the brothers are separated.

No, I don't want Dean in a Memorex Heaven - that would be hell, no pun intended. However, my guess is - and I could be wrong - that the garden Jack saw using the Occultum is what will transform Heaven, because it has to be restructured. If Heaven becomes the garden, then everyone can move around freely and interact with their loved ones. The angels would be there to watch over them - and in Castiel's case, if he gets back to Heaven, to be close to his beloved.

I think the Jack!bomb woke up all the angels and demons in the Empty - that's why it was loud. I think the Empty has to be, well, emptied - with the angels going back to Heaven, demons to Hell, and both realms are then closed off to Earth.

Who knows what will happen, but they continue to make it sound like Sam being with Eileen on Earth is his endgame. Dean's is up in the air, but I think the safer bet is that he does die and stays in Heaven. Again, that's not an ending Jensen would like. And, yeah, I'd rather my boy stay alive and finally get to enjoy his time on Earth, but I don't think it's in the cards.

[Aeryn13]

If he got a heroic farewell, I wouldn't mind so much if he has a peaceful ending. Even in Memorex heaven, even knowing, it could be peaceful. 

Yes, it would be nice if he got an upgrade position and in going so super-huge with making God the final villain and a Thanos-snapped Earth, it seems like a ridiculous small-fries ending now to just be in heaven like all the other souls. But I don't think the character is required to give and give for eternity so if there is a way for him to be content in just a peaceful resting state, he would have earned it.

I'm not quite sure what to make of Billie's attempts  to kill him in the last episode. She clearly read God's new ending. So was she going "screw it and you, I don't care if you have a part to play" at that point or was it an indicator that he isn't instrumental to the fight?

[Casseiopeia]

44 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

I think the Jack!bomb woke up all the angels and demons in the Empty - that's why it was loud. I think the Empty has to be, well, emptied - with the angels going back to Heaven, demons to Hell, and both realms are then closed off to Earth.

So if Dean went to heaven that would  mean that he would be in heaven together with Castiel forever?

[Smad]

45 minutes ago, PAForrest said:

I think the Jack!bomb woke up all the angels and demons in the Empty - that's why it was loud. I think the Empty has to be, well, emptied - with the angels going back to Heaven, demons to Hell, and both realms are then closed off to Earth.

That's going to be a mess considering that all the other universes are erased. Where do the AU angels and demons go then? Go to prime-verse heaven/hell? Go poof?

34 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But I don't think the character is required to give and give for eternity so if there is a way for him to be content in just a peaceful resting state, he would have earned it.

That's the reason I want him to live as a person on Earth. Because he's been forced to give and give his ENTIRE life, now it's time for him to live for himself and actually live life. I want him to be able to find some peace in actual life because he's never had that. 'Forced' peace of heaven is not the same to me. I want him to be able to do things he might have wanted to try in life but because of the burden his family put him, it's been impossible. I guess he could try that in heaven if heaven gets an overhaul but it's not the same really.

7 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

So if Dean went to heaven that would  mean that he would be in heaven together with Castiel forever?

Great ending for Castiel right? Perfect ending for him actually. He gets his love. Sam gets his on Earth (also perfect ending). And Dean gets...