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Spoilers With Speculation

SueB

By SueB
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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PeterKahlke
PeterKahlke

NEXT ON SUPERNATURAL Sam and Dean search for the yellow-eyed thing that killed their mom.

devlin
devlin

I don’t care who JA is going to be playing. I could seriously watch this guy read the phone book and be completely enthralled. I am just looking forward to some powerhouse acting full of nuances by wh

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So, so over it. You're a big boy - if you don't agree, put up or shut your judgey piehole.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)

Btw, with Lucy around, we have three significant sibling pairs now: Chuck and Amara, merged, Michael and Lucy and Dean and Sam. 

And somehow the Nougat.

In any non-ridiculous "fight" the brothers would get pulverized within 0.000001 seconds. And yet they are (nominally) the main characters.

 

Edited by Aeryn13
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PeterKahlke

PeterKahlke

(edited)
45 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Btw, with Lucy around, we have three significant sibling pairs now: Chuck and Amara, merged, Michael and Lucy and Dean and Sam. 

And somehow the Nougat.

In any non-ridiculous "fight" the brothers would get pulverized within 0.000001 seconds. And yet they are (nominally) the main characters.

 

With both Michael and Lucifer showing up, I can think of one way to at least give Sam and Dean a fighting chance...

 

SamiferDichael.png

Edited by PeterKahlke
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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
3 hours ago, PeterKahlke said:

With both Michael and Lucifer showing up, I can think of one way to at least give Sam and Dean a fighting chance...

 

SamiferDichael.png

I would love this, but I have to say that I highly doubt that it would be allowed to happen. 

Edited by Myrelle
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Myrelle

Myrelle

(edited)
1 hour ago, PeterKahlke said:

What makes you say that?

Because as was apparent from the episode, the showrunner is not interested in writing for the two lead actors and the two main characters on this show.

He's more interested in writing for his Cousin Oliver character. 

And this is why the show is ending. 

Edited by Myrelle
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

So with a boring wrap-up of the Nougat Stu, what is supposed to be the point of episode 20? They didn't leave any mytharc up in the air or anything to resolve.

Neither brother died or transformed or anything.

I guess Amara also won't possess Sam in the end. Jared really does come up with the most random shit.

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ParadoxLost

ParadoxLost

Does someone please want to reassure me that the clip in the finale promo where a sunset back drop is pulled away is an old thing from the French Mistake.

Because really I was worried they would go that way and I do not want them to.

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PAForrest

PAForrest

(edited)
3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Does someone please want to reassure me that the clip in the finale promo where a sunset back drop is pulled away is an old thing from the French Mistake.

Because really I was worried they would go that way and I do not want them to.

It's from Hollywood Babylon.

Also I take back all my speculation. It's obvious the multitude of dropped plot points are going to be just that - dropped.

Edited by PAForrest
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BabySpinach

BabySpinach

6 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

So with a boring wrap-up of the Nougat Stu, what is supposed to be the point of episode 20? They didn't leave any mytharc up in the air or anything to resolve.

Neither brother died or transformed or anything.

I guess Amara also won't possess Sam in the end. Jared really does come up with the most random shit.

Since I'm not sure what else they could possibly fill up two hours with, I'm hoping that Sam and Dean exit the show in at least some kind of changed state. Didn't Jared say that the ending was pretty final? If so, I doubt the series will end with them riding off in the Impala as usual.

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PAForrest

PAForrest

7 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Since I'm not sure what else they could possibly fill up two hours with, I'm hoping that Sam and Dean exit the show in at least some kind of changed state. Didn't Jared say that the ending was pretty final? If so, I doubt the series will end with them riding off in the Impala as usual.

I think the two hours includes the retrospective. Episode 20 is a regular one-hour episode. About what? Who the hell knows.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

7 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Since I'm not sure what else they could possibly fill up two hours with, I'm hoping that Sam and Dean exit the show in at least some kind of changed state. Didn't Jared say that the ending was pretty final? If so, I doubt the series will end with them riding off in the Impala as usual.

After seeing what they were willing to film tonight, I am expecting that one or both of them are going to get taken out by a random vampire for their grand finale. Dabb does not give a single fuck about the Winchester legacy. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

9 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Since I'm not sure what else they could possibly fill up two hours with, I'm hoping that Sam and Dean exit the show in at least some kind of changed state. Didn't Jared say that the ending was pretty final? If so, I doubt the series will end with them riding off in the Impala as usual.

Since Jared kinda always seemed to want it, I guess Sam settles down. And Dean does whatever.

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Binns

Binns

From what I’ve been reading seems like the finale is just a MOTW and maybe the boys do different things, like Sam settles down and Dean keeps hunting, but they are both alive and happy? That’s the spec I keep seeing. I find it hard to believe Dean wouldn’t have asked for Cas back. I just...don’t want either of them to die. 

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shoetingstar

shoetingstar

1 hour ago, BabySpinach said:

Since I'm not sure what else they could possibly fill up two hours with, I'm hoping that Sam and Dean exit the show in at least some kind of changed state. Didn't Jared say that the ending was pretty final? If so, I doubt the series will end with them riding off in the Impala as usual.

 

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Since Jared kinda always seemed to want it, I guess Sam settles down. And Dean does whatever.

Was tonight's episode Jared's Favorite episode or Episode 20? Cuz....😬

I want them both to find some kind of happiness.

 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

I figured after 19, it would be clear what to expect in 20. But ha, 19 was basically a Series wrap.

With no set up and lingering plot threads, Dabb wrapping up their "character journeys" sounds like the worst thing ever.

Dying on a random hunt will be super-anticmimactic now. Settling down would still not be for any better reason than any other time.

Considering Jared loves it so much and the chance for superbig heroics have passed, my guess would be Sam and Eileen settling down. Dean either dies randomely or just settles down also with some bar or something since they haven't set up anything for him.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Now it's highly possible the actual ending will be even more blah and undignified but at this point you'll have to reach back several Seasons anyway to when the Winchesters still mattered and were heroes.

The problem with the show is they did open it up and made it bigger and bigger so the main characters had to legitimately level up in cosmic importance to keep up with it. Even while staying human. If they couldn't pull it through in the end, they should have stayed smaller.

Conversely, there can be something poetic in having characters live through all the big things and then die on some little hunt. But you need better writing for that. And the big heroics should be meaningful so they leave a good legacy either way.

Now the legacy they leave is kind of iffy. Because I sure as hell don't consider the Nougat Stu to be one.

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PeterKahlke

PeterKahlke

7 hours ago, Myrelle said:

Because as was apparent from the episode, the showrunner is not interested in writing for the two lead actors and the two main characters on this show.

He's more interested in writing for his Cousin Oliver character. 

And this is why the show is ending. 

You were right, of course. I wanted so much to believe, but... sigh.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Dying on a random hunt will be super-anticmimactic now.

This would also be something Jensen doesn't like. 

There is a random vampire listed on IMDB.  Dabb said something about a hunt in that interview, and there is that big fight scene that took 3 days to film. 

I figure it will go one of two ways.  Dean dies on this 'milk run.'  Sam realizes there is more to life than hunting.  And he settles down with Eileen to live a long happy life. 

Or one or both brothers almost die on this last hunt and Sam decides he want more out of life than hunting and asks Dean to let him go, and Sam settles with Eileen for a long happy life.  Dean opens a bar. 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

This would also be something Jensen doesn't like. 

There is a random vampire listed on IMDB.  Dabb said something about a hunt in that interview, and there is that big fight scene that took 3 days to film. 

I figure it will go one of two ways.  Dean dies on this 'milk run.'  Sam realizes there is more to life than hunting.  And he settles down with Eileen to live a long happy life. 

Or one or both brothers almost die on this last hunt and Sam decides he want more out of life than hunting and asks Dean to let him go, and Sam settles with Eileen for a long happy life.  Dean opens a bar. 

There comes Badd's "maybe they are not ending it in the same way/place or on the same page" thing in again.

So that final scene they have on the bridge will be a goodbye scene and we either don't see their separation or it's another montage? Seriously, killing one off would be neater in that scenario.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Oh, I thought of something. Those set pictures from what was clearly their last day of shooting, in the Pilot clothes (Easter Egg) and on some bridge, there was discussion of both looking aged up via some grey in their hair.

Now back then I dismissed it as the lighting but what if the bulk of the episode is a milk-run hunt and it ends in a time-skip where it`s either clear both are dead or they decide (or one decides) to hang it up? 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)

Said it in the episode thread, but since they didn't mention Castiel at all after The Ascension of Nougat Boy,  my spec is now that Dean dies stupidly on a stupid hunt of a stupid monster, Castiel grips him tight and raises him to New!Heaven (a final fuck you to Jensen), and Sam gets his apple pie life at long last. With a 50/50 shot of them being rained upon by precious little drops of Nougat to remind them of his love everlasting.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
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SueB

SueB

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My thought:  No way they end a HORROR show with a happy montage.  So yes, a hunt next week. I don't think Chuck comes back, but I think the episode will feel like "You thought you were safe? FOOLED YOU!"

No clue on plot, no clue of real ending.  But it's going Horror trope IMO.

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Pondlass1

Pondlass1

I’m wondering if next week’s episode will just be a montage of previous guest stars and convention panel favourites feeding through the revolving doors of the bunker to thank and reminisce with Dean and Sam... no hugs social distancing only.  It won’t need much in the way of script or acting, but will appease Twitterverse and easily pleased casual viewers. The final visitor will probably be Eileen.  Sam will settle down and Dean will ... well, I don’t know what they’ll do with wild and crazy Dean. He is not a simple man. 
 

See you on The Boys, Jensen!!

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Bobcatkitten

Bobcatkitten

On 9/11/2020 at 1:49 PM, Bobcatkitten said:

So I have a theory that the reason they are dressed like when they are younger, gray hair and the original license plate is that this is Dean's heaven - growing old doing milk runs with his brother Sam. Just like in the beginning before all the angels/apocalypse/god stuff. Rolling into town - saving people, hunting things - and then moving on. There is a random vampire listed in the last episode that could be just a normal old hunt with them together. 

Maybe it will even be most of the episode with us thinking they are just on a hunt but in the end it will be Dean's heaven. 

Can't wait to see if my theory from a few months ago holds up...

 

 

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

It's tricky as IMO the final scene is with the brothers because a separation could only be teased/implied. Unless it's them uniting in heaven.

And what's the point of living different lives if nothing about it is shown in the slightest?

I think thr clothes and licence plates are easter eggs for fans. The general viewers will not notice stuff like that.

Best case scenario? They both die. We get some nice speeches from the people they left behind. Though AU!Bobby would be a meh choice. I wouldn't care about him rhapsodizing just Sam some more. Jody or Donna would be better choices.

Then the final scene is a lame one in heaven. Probably with Nougat silently lookibg at them. Wrap.

No idea where Dabb's leftover myth comes in. The Empty? 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

I’m wondering if next week’s episode will just be a montage of previous guest stars and convention panel favourites feeding through the revolving doors of the bunker to thank and reminisce with Dean and Sam... no hugs social distancing only.  It won’t need much in the way of script or acting, but will appease Twitterverse and easily pleased casual viewers. The final visitor will probably be Eileen.  Sam will settle down and Dean will ... well, I don’t know what they’ll do with wild and crazy Dean. He is not a simple man. 
 

See you on The Boys, Jensen!!

I think - and I am sure I read this somewhere - that we have seen the last of the bunker. If I recall correctly, they were already breaking the set when the guys were filming 15x20.

I think that's why they focused on the carved initials, and *gag* Mary's initials, Cas and Jack's names.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

2 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think - and I am sure I read this somewhere - that we have seen the last of the bunker. If I recall correctly, they were already breaking the set when the guys were filming 15x20.

I think that's why they focused on the carved initials, and *gag* Mary's initials, Cas and Jack's names.

The final image screams "farewell" to the bunker, true, but it would be really strange to imply they just moved out. 

I can see it just not featuring in the Finale with its milkrun hunt. Or two. There is the vampire and those clown-things in the barn. Likely the big three-day fight scene.

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ahrtee

ahrtee

4 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Likely the big three-day fight scene.

I was assuming the terrible choreography of the Chuck fight was because they couldn't use the stunt people (I think they were in a different bubble?) and so they had to rely on just closeups of a fist hitting (or, more accurately, missing) a face.  No long shots, no close up fighting.  So unless the stunt people joined the actors' bubble or they did a lot of fancy editing to blend both sets of people seamlessly, maybe the reason it took 3 days to film was so that they *could* manage the different groups of fighters and not that it was such a wonderful scene.  *sigh*

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

I was assuming the terrible choreography of the Chuck fight was because they couldn't use the stunt people (I think they were in a different bubble?) and so they had to rely on just closeups of a fist hitting (or, more accurately, missing) a face.  No long shots, no close up fighting.  So unless the stunt people joined the actors' bubble or they did a lot of fancy editing to blend both sets of people seamlessly, maybe the reason it took 3 days to film was so that they *could* manage the different groups of fighters and not that it was such a wonderful scene.  *sigh*

I remember the three-day fight specifically mentioned for episode 20. And they probably need it to pad the runtime.

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PAForrest

PAForrest

(edited)
4 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I’m wondering if next week’s episode will just be a montage of previous guest stars and convention panel favourites feeding through the revolving doors of the bunker to thank and reminisce with Dean and Sam... no hugs social distancing only.  It won’t need much in the way of script or acting, but will appease Twitterverse and easily pleased casual viewers. The final visitor will probably be Eileen.  Sam will settle down and Dean will ... well, I don’t know what they’ll do with wild and crazy Dean. He is not a simple man. 
 

See you on The Boys, Jensen!!

Can't wait!

Like I said further up, I can't even guess anymore because there are so many dangling plot points/holes that can't possibly get wrapped up. And why? The showrunner/producers got bored, forgot, didn't give a damn?

1.) Heaven was dying because there were almost no angels left, and we were told when they die, Heaven goes completely bye-bye. Uh, how about that? I'd think that would be rather important to our guys.

2.) The Garden in the Occultum.

3.) Ruby's plea to Cas to save them from the Empty because it's actually all torture porn.

4.) Gack doesn't give a crap about bringing anyone back the guys loved.

5.) Then there was that weird thing when Cas was losing his powers for a half a season, with no explanation. Then suddenly he had them back, no explanation again. And now he's dead, so I guess it doesn't matter. But what was the plan?

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting because the whole season - or whole Dabbernatural era - is forgettable AF. These are just the latest that happened this year.

And we have a whopping 42 minutes to go.

Seeing as all it took was a really cheesy tacked-on youtube vid of the guys from the past when they used to be leads and heroes to satisfy most of Dabb's fans, I agree, they could have just done away with any pretense of a script next week and run another youtube vid for five or ten minutes, and that also likely would have sufficed.

Edited by PAForrest
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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

50 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Nope.

Yeah... I mean she was finger snapped so we were not reading along with her. 

And if this was God's awful draft playing out.... does that mean it was  fake victory and he will pop up again and say ... gee you guys were so happy for one hot minute but no... it ain't that easy. 

And frankly the bad writing started before Becky returned.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

8 hours ago, SueB said:

My thought:  No way they end a HORROR show with a happy montage.  So yes, a hunt next week. I don't think Chuck comes back, but I think the episode will feel like "You thought you were safe? FOOLED YOU!"

No clue on plot, no clue of real ending.  But it's going Horror trope IMO.

Chuck foretold a future with monsters if they killed him.

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7kstar

7kstar

46 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Chuck foretold a future with monsters if they killed him.

If it is true, I might not even finish it.  Since I don't have cable at least I can find out whether I want to watch with commercials or not.  So far, being spoiled before has actually helped me like something.  Since it lowers my expectations to I will like nothing to oh, that's an okay moment.

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Castiels Cat

Castiels Cat

18 hours ago, Binns said:

Just saw this on Twitter. Could the writers be that smart? Is it possible?

 

 

The only way I can see this remotely working is if they cut to the writers room and show them throwing out the previous concept for another.... which would  be awful in the last episode of the series.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

(edited)
7 hours ago, Dobian said:

From the preview the finale looks like more of a retrospective than anything.  I'm not expecting any actual plot to it beyond maybe bringing back some of the characters one last time.

I think they just didn't put in any actual footage of episode 20 to be coy about it. There will obviously be a milkrun hunt and then one or both brothers are dying or settling down. Since Dabb crowed how definite an ending it is, both may die for once.

Since Jim Beaver filmed on the last day, it might be the cheese of original Bobby welcoming them to heaven. Probably with "idjits" because that's how pancake flat the character used to be in the end, nothing more than this catchphrase.

They put an old line reading by Jim Beaver in at the end of the trailer "here's to running into you on the other scene". That could turn out to be "teehee haha" as a clue.

Edited by Aeryn13
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PAForrest

PAForrest

(edited)
12 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Chuck foretold a future with monsters if they killed him.

Other than some random milk run, in which I'm sure one of them - probably Dean - will be stupidly killed as if he's never done this before, I predict just another hour of signature Dabb soap opera. Andrew Dabb is a soap opera writer - his failed spin-offs were all soap opera. There's been less and less actual horror for years, but especially during Dabb's era. I mean, Party City ghosts running around in the bright BRIGHT light? That's not horror, that's a bad attempt at comedy.

The penultimate episode was nothing but overwrought narcissistic Mary Sue soap opera.

So I'm not expecting horror at the last second. I think we'll just have to be happy if it's actually about the Winchesters - but nothing is a given.

Edited by PAForrest
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