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Spoilers With Speculation


SueB
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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53 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Sam says,  "We win this, and we're free." 

So, Chuck challenges them to a do-over, but without him 'on their side' (ha ha ha) this time. They win, he takes out all the baddies and they can retire.  

That gives them lots of MOTW episodes and a season arc. And a boring ending, which I can see Jensen being unsure of. Hmmm.

Well, I HOPE we get to see lots of MotW episodes for the guys. But I'll only believe that when we see them materialize, especially given Dabb's interest in anything but the Winchesters. Lots of MotW episodes would mean the guys are hopefully spared watching Cas mope after Jack.

But I agree Jensen would hate a retirement ending. He didn't like it in season six.

Edited by PAForrest
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1 hour ago, Bobcatkitten said:

If that's the ending I could totally love it. Also I saw this on Twitter, if it means anything. 

Not if they're just repeating all the hunts they already did, starting with the woman in white.  After all, they already know how to kill them and don't have to figure things out.  

OTOH, that certainly takes the pressure off the writers since they don't have to actually think in order to come up with anything new,.  *sigh* 

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1 hour ago, ahrtee said:

After all, they already know how to kill them

What if Chuck erased that as well. Salt, silver, iron, burning the bones, exorcisms.... etc.  Now nothing in lore or canon will have any relevance at all. I mean if he is pissed and released everything why not erase any means of defeating them as well. Otherwise what's the point?

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49 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

What if Chuck erased that as well. Salt, silver, iron, burning the bones, exorcisms.... etc.  Now nothing in lore or canon will have any relevance at all. I mean if he is pissed and released everything why not erase any means of defeating them as well. Otherwise what's the point?

Woodchipper?

ETA:  Don't worry.  Rowena and Ketch have all the fancy spells and equipment, and Jack will be the deus-ex-machina to save the day.  

Edited by ahrtee
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I do like the poster, but honestly I'm not happy about Jack being on there.  I don't hate him or anything, but I do not consider him a main character (as much as certain writers would like me to).  Also, the artist didn't quite catch Alex's likeness so that bothers me, too.  The 'stairway to heaven' bothers me coupled with Jensen's initial dislike of the ending, so there's that.  I really don't want the end to be for them to be dead -- even if Billie somehow forgets to drop them in the empty and lets them go to that big hunt in the sky.

The stills -- When did Sam get re tattoo'd?  Cas burned it off during "Road Trip" so Crowley could possess Sam and get him to eject Gadreel.  Sigh.  I hate sh*t like this.  I know, I know, the last couple of seasons are full of such egregious errors and you'd think I'd be used to it.  I guess I was hoping someone would pay a little bit of attention since it is the final season.

The trailer --  I'm still watching that in slo mo, but my initial impressions are leaning toward positive.

And, oh, all the "the boys got another car!" click bait?  No they didn't, Baby is right behind them and they are checking out a car with blood on the windshield.  Sounds like a case to me, ya idjits.  (edited to add cause I forgot to:) And who is behind Baby's wheel in that pic?  

And, just my feeling from watching numerous interviews.  I do think it was Jensen who initially pulled the plug, and I think he's regretting it a bit now.  Which is too bad, cause it would be nice to see him go do something really great.  I mean, not that our little show isn't great, but you know.  🙂

Edited by Cambion
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Okay, I'm obsessive and an insomniac....

So, the trailer. 

The song is "devil's gonna come when the sun goes down" and if that turns out to be literal...I just can't.  *sigh*

Sam says:  If we win this, we're free.   

Ooookay, lots to unpack there.  Is there some kind of deal going on here?  Did Chuck throw some conditions at the boys culminating in a "if this, then that" statement with that = free?  Is this a single fight/action that will allow the boys to get away from all of this (perish the thought!)?  Hmmmmm.....

Sam:  It's just us.  Dean: You and me versus every soul in Hell.  I like those odds. 

Probably click bait, if you will, because where is Cas in all of this?  He's just gonna stand back and not fight with his brothers?  And we can't forget Jack, cause I'm sure the writer's won't let us.  No, I'm pretty sure that line was included in the episode so it could be included in the trailer to psych the fans into thinking we will get MOTW and our boys fighting the good fight to make sure we all tune in. (Although, either this season will be decent and we'll tune in to enjoy, or it will be a train wreck and we won't be able to look away, take your pick.)

Dean:  If she's back, then, they'd all be back.

I hope not literally, and I hope the ones we do see have some extra juice or something because (as someones pointed out in another thread) we already know how those hunts are going to end and boooooring.  How about some new monsters?  Ones that were already in Hell, you know in the millennia before the boys started hunting?  Is it really just going to be the horror version of "This is your Life"?

Also, some of the characters having been teased we know went to heaven (Kevin, Aileen), so what - heaven is open now too? (Forgive me I need to rewatch 14.20 because some of the ending is a little fuzzy, maybe Chuck did open heaven as well and I forgot about it because of all the demons and zombies stampeding out of hell.)

Sam:  We got work to do.

Okay, thanks for the little ride into nostalgia.  Hope the stories live up to the nostalgia and aren't the same stories without even the names changed.  

ETA: okay, so maybe it wasn't so positive...

Edited by Cambion
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4 hours ago, Cambion said:

Probably click bait, if you will, because where is Cas in all of this?  He's just gonna stand back and not fight with his brothers?  And we can't forget Jack, cause I'm sure the writer's won't let us.  No, I'm pretty sure that line was included in the episode so it could be included in the trailer to psych the fans into thinking we will get MOTW and our boys fighting the good fight to make sure we all tune in. (Although, either this season will be decent and we'll tune in to enjoy, or it will be a train wreck and we won't be able to look away, take your pick.)

From the promo we see a mopey Cas not with the brothers, and I do tend to think that's going to be the theme of the season, quite honestly. Cas had no real interest in the brothers last year, or really ever since Jack popped out, but especially last year. Plus Singer has never liked Cas being the third wheel in the back of the Impala.

So I can buy that Cas won't be fighting with the brothers most of the time per norm, and will instead be focused on Jack, getting him back, or likely dealing with him the instant he comes back which is probably about 2 seconds after the premiere starts. Plus there's the spoiler about Cas and Dean not getting along this year, tension in their relationship, so that's probably the excuse they'll use to keep them separated, which given what Dabb has done to Cas is just fine by me.

Yes, I do think the promo is click-bait'ish in that it's purposely designed to look like the whole season is going to be about the brothers fighting the good fight. Finally! Except we already know that's not true, but it certainly was cobbled together to make it look that way.

5 hours ago, Cambion said:

I do think it was Jensen who initially pulled the plug, and I think he's regretting it a bit now.  Which is too bad, cause it would be nice to see him go do something really great.

I completely believe it was Jensen who first broached the subject and brought the plan to Jared. He wouldn't have done it without Jared, but I'm sure he's the one who said, "it's time". Yeah, he might feel some regret, or more so nostalgic sadness. Just because he may believe the show has no legs anymore to keep going strongly - and he's right - doesn't mean he won't miss it, miss the work, miss the crew and everyone he's worked with all these years. It's been the largest chunk of his professional life, and it will leave a hole, which I'm sure he never doubted. But that doesn't mean it wasn't time to call it quits. And yes, selfishly I'm ready to see Jensen work on something with more meat to it.

Even so, I too will miss seeing Dean Winchester on my tv screen every week.

Edited by PAForrest
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10 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

Well they do have their version of Lucille...  :)

O/T that mark on Jensen's nose is starting to freak me out. It's been months now (and it is still there in the soccer pics).

36 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I don't think so, we saw it when it first happened and was scabbed over.  I think it was probably just a bad cut/scrape and now he's got a scar and it's taking some time to fade.  But you never know.  

I tend to think it's this because sometimes we can see it, and sometimes not. I just hate the idea of anything being wrong with him, like ever.

Quote

E BEGINNING OF THE END – Picking up here we left off last season, Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) are left to defend the world after all the souls in hell have been released and are back on Earth and free to kill again. John Showalter directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1502). Original airdate 10/10/2019.

Press release for the premier.

Nothing new.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-season-premiere-photos-back-and-to-the-future-description/196183/

Edited by ILoveReading
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On 9/6/2019 at 1:16 AM, SueB said:

Lose people? Like Mary twice, John, Bobby, Ellen, Jo, practically every hunter they know, practically every angel that ever existed, Dean's bros Benny and Crowley. . . 

WHAT. IS. HE. TALKING. ABOUT.

DOES. HE. WATCH. THIS. SHOW.

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2 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

Lose people? Like Mary twice, John, Bobby, Ellen, Jo, practically every hunter they know, practically every angel that ever existed, Dean's bros Benny and Crowley. . . 

WHAT. IS. HE. TALKING. ABOUT.

DOES. HE. WATCH. THIS. SHOW.

My guess is that Dabb will just have Chuck say that the guys never really lost anyone because he just wrote them back into the story.  But now he won't so it will be permanent.

50 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I do not understand how the souls from hell are entering corpses and reanimating them. I guess demons could do this but they wouldn't act like zombies. Neither would ghosts. It I'd all so stupid and nonsensical.

Per Dabb's previous soundbite (TV Guide I think) he seems to think this a ghoul. This is not a "Supernatural" ghoul. We all know a ghoul is a type of shapeshiftimg monster that eats human flesh. 

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

My guess is that Dabb will just have Chuck say that the guys never really lost anyone because he just wrote them back into the story.  But now he won't so it will be permanent.

I think he is a bona fide idjit.

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4 minutes ago, Castiels Cat said:

I do not understand how the souls from hell are entering corpses and reanimating them. I guess demons could do this but they wouldn't act like zombies. Neither would ghosts. It I'd all so stupid and nonsensical.

Per Dabb's previous soundbite (TV Guide I think) he seems to think this a ghoul. This is not a "Supernatural" ghoul. We all know a ghoul is a type of shapeshiftimg monster that eats human flesh. 

I think he is a bona fide idjit.

"Southpark" had a bit regarding "Family Guy". To wit the writers were a bunch of manatees playing with balls with words on them. The concept is applicable.

Edited by Castiels Cat
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On 9/13/2019 at 5:24 PM, SueB said:

i feel like there’s some spoilers in this poster so I’ve brought it here to cogitate on. 

First, not only is Jack back but he has eyes.  Now that’s not a guarantee (the eyes) but aI think they wouldn’t want to keep Jack blind the entire time. 

Second, I joked about Gozer the Gozerian on Twitter but it definitely has that vibe with the stairs.  I’m going to need someone to explicate the whole poster after this is over. 

Third, skull with a raven sitting on the Impala.  Besides ’cool factor’, it sure seems to imply Death’s involvement at least. Or it could mean something entirely different.

But we’ve also got the bird motif working for us in the middle -above the steps.  More Reapers?

Which brings me to those steps. Sort of a Pearly Gates feel but it ends in an anti-possession symbol.  May just a general allusion to the end  likely more.

We’ve got two angels with full wings carrying something each.  They look like your classic stained glass window Angels with the old times halo effect and robes.

Prominent wings - not any one’s in particular— more vertical than most.  Could be anyone’s or just a sign of angel involvement.  

That’s a super-fancy Enochian-class Devil’s trap in the center but there's a larger circle that surrounds everything.  With non-standard pattern on the ring.   No clue.

Baby with the world on fire seems apt.

Finally, ‘As it is written, so shall it end.’ Very Chuck sounding.   Is that the challenge - break what is written? Didn’t we do that already?  

Off the top of my head without much thought. Stairway to heaven. Two true vessels for two archangels. Thinking there may be a God tablet.

Bird is a symbol for the holy ghost and also for the soul in Christian iconography.

Dean has been the only character to change Chuck's story as it was written. Because Chick was only Chuck at the time Dean may not have realized the significance. Chuck was kind of wow... I did not write it this way. It happened twice in season 5 and of course Dean did not kill Jack in s 14. It is strongly implied that s 11 did not end the way Chuck wrote it. Metatron was horrified by what Chuck wrote, presumably his death and everything ending; however Dean found another way. 

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14 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Did he break his nose? It looks different. Still gorgeous.

I don't think so.  He cut it during the summer and has a scar across it which might make it look different(you know like how makeup works to thin out or widen a nose, you have a darker scar across the bridge it's going to make it look different depending on the lighting). 

He's always had a bump on his nose.  Depending on what angle he's photo'd from his nose looks entirely different, I always found it a little fascinating. LOL  It has a little slope from one side and looks straight from the other and sometimes you can see the little bump. It's also slightly crooked straight on.   I imagine he did break it at some point when he was young, because from what I can tell his nose hasn't really changed since he started acting.  Actually I think he even made a joke at a con this summer about the cut, something about his busted looking nose looking even more busted(can you imagine, we look at him and think he's as close to perfect as possible and he probably looks in the mirror thinking "Argh stupid nose!" :))

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On 9/17/2019 at 12:58 AM, Cambion said:

And, just my feeling from watching numerous interviews.  I do think it was Jensen who initially pulled the plug, and I think he's regretting it a bit now.  Which is too bad, cause it would be nice to see him go do something really great.  I mean, not that our little show isn't great, but you know.  🙂

I'm retiring this year, so it's bittersweet.  For 15 years, he's done supernatural and has made friends that he looks forward to seeing and then it will end and he won't see them but that doesn't mean he doesn't want to move on.  But his emotions could be flip flopping.  I know I am but I'm also very clear that this year is the right time to move one.  It's scary, exciting and sad all in one.  

Now for me it's been 31 years but people have left so it isn't the same.  But it's the beginning of the season so he's got the energy and may sound like he's wavering but I really doubt it.  Jensen is smart and understands the fans that are mixed about the show ending.  I do hope he continues to act pass Supernatural but for now I'm sure his feeling are all over the place.

I'm also hoping that no matter what happens it isn't so bad that I just quit watching, but so far nothing has me excited about the new season, everything seems too much of a rinse and repeat but wait this will make it feel new...maybe or maybe not.  ONLY time will tell.

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On 9/17/2019 at 2:44 AM, Cambion said:

Okay, I'm obsessive and an insomniac....

So, the trailer. 

The song is "devil's gonna come when the sun goes down" and if that turns out to be literal...I just can't.  *sigh*

Sam says:  If we win this, we're free.   

Ooookay, lots to unpack there.  Is there some kind of deal going on here?  Did Chuck throw some conditions at the boys culminating in a "if this, then that" statement with that = free?  Is this a single fight/action that will allow the boys to get away from all of this (perish the thought!)?  Hmmmmm.....

Sam:  It's just us.  Dean: You and me versus every soul in Hell.  I like those odds. 

Probably click bait, if you will, because where is Cas in all of this?  He's just gonna stand back and not fight with his brothers?  And we can't forget Jack, cause I'm sure the writer's won't let us.  No, I'm pretty sure that line was included in the episode so it could be included in the trailer to psych the fans into thinking we will get MOTW and our boys fighting the good fight to make sure we all tune in. (Although, either this season will be decent and we'll tune in to enjoy, or it will be a train wreck and we won't be able to look away, take your pick.)

Dean:  If she's back, then, they'd all be back.

I hope not literally, and I hope the ones we do see have some extra juice or something because (as someones pointed out in another thread) we already know how those hunts are going to end and boooooring.  How about some new monsters?  Ones that were already in Hell, you know in the millennia before the boys started hunting?  Is it really just going to be the horror version of "This is your Life"?

Also, some of the characters having been teased we know went to heaven (Kevin, Aileen), so what - heaven is open now too? (Forgive me I need to rewatch 14.20 because some of the ending is a little fuzzy, maybe Chuck did open heaven as well and I forgot about it because of all the demons and zombies stampeding out of hell.)

Sam:  We got work to do.

Okay, thanks for the little ride into nostalgia.  Hope the stories live up to the nostalgia and aren't the same stories without even the names changed.  

ETA: okay, so maybe it wasn't so positive...

I hope to see the original death and that Sam isn't forced to kill Eileen.  Also is it possible that some of the returning monsters won't be ones we have already seen but ones Sam and Dean have killed off camera?  They have fought the forces of evil for years before we, the audience, have met them. They fought creatures like chupacabras and ones like the liver eating monster dean killed (Cole's father).  I also have been wanting to check in on Christi and her friends since season 8 but we probably won't.  Wasn't Garth supposed to be looking in on them?

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On 9/22/2019 at 1:00 AM, lmdreamer said:

I hope to see the original death and that Sam isn't forced to kill Eileen.  Also is it possible that some of the returning monsters won't be ones we have already seen but ones Sam and Dean have killed off camera?  They have fought the forces of evil for years before we, the audience, have met them. They fought creatures like chupacabras and ones like the liver eating monster dean killed (Cole's father).  I also have been wanting to check in on Christi and her friends since season 8 but we probably won't.  Wasn't Garth supposed to be looking in on them?

All we saw at the end of season 14 and all that has been described poorly is letting the souls out of hell. Correct me if I am wrong. We saw ghosts that were evil and would have gone to hell. We saw sliritz rising out of hell and somehow reanim6the dead. I could not bare to watch more than once znd I was grimacing T the end so I could be misremembering. This would constitute a classic biblical end of days Alocalyptic scenario per Revelations more ir kess.. Considering the Apocalypse in season 5 roughly corresponded as well and Chuck is the biblical God. . .

At this point there is no reason to assume he opened Purgatory. We don't even know if the demon gates were opened.  . . Yet or if they will be. There are no good living demons left frankly.

We don't know that God will open Purgatory at all. Dean could ask Death to escort him there to get Benny.. . Maybe. Now per season 8 (?) We know there is a backdoor entrance between Purgatory and Hell. Some monsters could escape through that however they wouldn't have bodies to walk the walk and there is no guarantee that they know the spell to transmorgrify like Benny did.

Of course these writers put no thought into anything so probably monsters will show up because it will be a nepotism script or something.

We can assume that dead Angels and demons will show up because the Empty appears to be a frenemy at least in the short-term. Probably not Crowley sadly unless they recast him because they screwed the actor royally. They probably will recast Crowley.

They can perhaps bring back old Death as an angel since thst',that's, essentially what he was before becoming Death.

17 hours ago, Casseiopeia said:

If it's Supernatural I would be stoked!

I know there were calls years ago for Kane to appear on Supernatural, especially during the time Edlund was around, so that is a possibility. Also he and Jensen are friends.

Though I haven't been following Kane on twitter in recent years, I wouldn't know of another project or genre that fans might have been clamoring to see him on.  Maybe a western, but the only western-like project that pops to mind currently on the air is Yellowstone on the Paramount network, but that just finished its second season. Hasn't been on for "years".

Let us know when he spills the beans.

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10 hours ago, PAForrest said:

I know there were calls years ago for Kane to appear on Supernatural, especially during the time Edlund was around, so that is a possibility. Also he and Jensen are friends.

Though I haven't been following Kane on twitter in recent years, I wouldn't know of another project or genre that fans might have been clamoring to see him on.  Maybe a western, but the only western-like project that pops to mind currently on the air is Yellowstone on the Paramount network, but that just finished its second season. Hasn't been on for "years".

Let us know when he spills the beans.

I saw some info yhat hes reuniti g with Dean Devlin, who i think was the producer of Leverage so i dont know if it will be Supernatural.

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I saw some info yhat hes reuniti g with Dean Devlin, who i think was the producer of Leverage so i dont know if it will be Supernatural.

I was thinking about Leverage and the people he worked with there, but hadn't heard anything recent. The most recent thing I can find about Devlin is that he and Roland Emmerich are in the possible early-early stages, once again, of either rebooting or producing a Stargate movie sequel. But like I said, it's very early stages of deciding even what it might end up being. But given how long Stargate was on the air in one iteration or another, yeah, that could be it too.

Still, it would be cool if he did a one-off appearance on SPN this last season.

Edited by PAForrest
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15 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I saw some info yhat hes reuniti g with Dean Devlin, who i think was the producer of Leverage so i dont know if it will be Supernatural.

Kane said on his twitter that what he's talking about is new--the show he has with Devlin is already known by his fans and has been in the media.   So it's not about that show.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-15-2-description-raising-hell/196890/

SENDING OUT AN SOS – Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) call on Rowena (Guest Star Ruth Connell) to help keep the evil souls at bay and get an unexpected assist from Ketch (Guest Star David Haydn-Jones). Robert Singer directed the episode written by Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming (#1503). Original airdate 10/17/2019.

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5 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-15-2-description-raising-hell/196890/

SENDING OUT AN SOS – Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) call on Rowena (Guest Star Ruth Connell) to help keep the evil souls at bay and get an unexpected assist from Ketch (Guest Star David Haydn-Jones). Robert Singer directed the episode written by Brad Buckner & Eugenie Ross-Leming (#1503). Original airdate 10/17/2019.

I wonder if 1501 will be called "killing evil s.o.b.s"  .

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43 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Very cool!!!

Seconded. I always thought they should have brought in some more friends from Dean`s solo hunting days. Or showed a hunt in flashbacks interconnecting with today. I mean they did that with Soulless Sam but never really for Dean.

Leo is probably gonna get killed in the episode - because Dean can`t have nice things - but I hope to see some good friendship vibes. 

As usual the recent Con was a dearth of spoilers again, nothing really came out of it. And nothing else trickles down the grapevine either. What are they shooting right now, ep 6 or 7? And apart from some guest stars we basically got zilch. Maybe it`s due to the original spoiler sheet not being continued (and the new one being very, very sparse) but for a final Season, there is bubkis. I see a lot more about Arrow.   

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4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Seconded. I always thought they should have brought in some more friends from Dean`s solo hunting days. Or showed a hunt in flashbacks interconnecting with today. I mean they did that with Soulless Sam but never really for Dean.

Leo is probably gonna get killed in the episode - because Dean can`t have nice things - but I hope to see some good friendship vibes. 

As usual the recent Con was a dearth of spoilers again, nothing really came out of it. And nothing else trickles down the grapevine either. What are they shooting right now, ep 6 or 7? And apart from some guest stars we basically got zilch. Maybe it`s due to the original spoiler sheet not being continued (and the new one being very, very sparse) but for a final Season, there is bubkis. I see a lot more about Arrow.   

I saw a tweet that attributed Jensen with saying that s15 was "Badass".

I hope that he's talking about his own character and I want to think that he is.

But frankly, I'm still concerned about the ending of it all.🤨

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2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I saw a tweet that attributed Jensen with saying that s15 was "Badass".

I hope that he's talking about his own character and I want to think that he is.

But frankly, I'm still concerned about the ending of it all.🤨

Just because the showrunner basically said “If you thought GOT’s ending was bad, wait ‘til you see this!”?  I can’t imagine why that would concern anyone. [/sarcasm] 🙄🤬

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Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Bitter Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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