S00.E142: Last Christmas

[Starchild]

I loved the Doctor referring to the older lady as "sexy one".

 

Disappointed not to get a new companion; Shona would have been good.

[Daisy]

Also, to quote the War Doctor: can you  not have people speak like an adult? Timey-Wimey was cute because it fit into the whole, "wibbly wobbly, timey wimey.. stuff." Everything else, including "beardy-weirdy" needs to just stop. It doesn't have to rhyme, it doesn't need to be cute. You milked it so dry now you're getting dust particles on your hands. 

[miles2go]

I'm rather glad I didn't watch this on Christmas;  would have spoiled the whole day to find out Clara's still going to be with us.

 

Oh, well.

 

Not a bad episode, though.  I rather enjoyed Santa Claus; the rest of the guest characters were good, too.  I am wondering why everyone awakened without any signs of damage  -- they've had a brain-sucking alien attached to their heads; seems to me there would be some after-effects.  But here they are all magically healed!

 

And for the record, I happen to like tangerines.

[shapeshifter]

...I am wondering why everyone awakened without any signs of damage  -- they've had a brain-sucking alien attached to their heads; seems to me there would be some after-effects.  But here they are all magically healed!...

Yes, that bugged me throughout and beyond. Couldn't Moffat and friends think of any pseudo-scientific reason for The Doctor to give?

 

...And for the record, I happen to like tangerines.

Me too. And fruitcake. And walnuts. Maybe I should just change my last name to Christmas now.

[benteen]

Yes, that bugged me throughout and beyond. Couldn't Moffat and friends think of any pseudo-scientific reason for The Doctor to give?

 

Me too. And fruitcake. And walnuts. Maybe I should just change my last name to Christmas now.

 

It's Moffat just waving his hand again with their not being any side effects.

[alias1]

I absolutely hated old Clara and if the show had ended that way I would have been very disappointed.  Can't the companion just walk away like Martha?  When Clara does leave I hope she gets a better sendoff than she was going to have here.  And the old makeup was terrible and so fake, in my opinion.  Please, Moffat, you can do better than that.  It looks like Clara and Twelve will get the chance to have a better relationship going forward and that makes me look forward to next season.  I wasn't crazy about the way Clara has been written recently and I'm a huge fan of the actress.  She deserves better and so does Twelve.  I like them together.  None of the characters in this episode would make better companions.  They were all too vanilla.  I would love if the Doctor could recruit Psi and Saibra. 

 

As Christmas Specials go, it was better than most under Moffat.  A lot of it was still boring.  I was never that invested in Danny before but I liked him here.  He and Clara seemed more natural with each other than previously.  My burning question is what happened to the kid that Danny sent back from the Nethersphere? 

[catrox14]

Good grief that was one bad episode and I have seen that show before when it was called Inception. And so now we are stuck with Clara longer? Ugh. No thanks. Peter Capaldi deserves a better companion.

Edited December 26, 2014 by catrox14

[Kalliste]

 

At least she wasn't telling him to shut up and do as he was told at the end of the episode. I could put up with her for another season/series if they keep her mellow.

She did tell him to behave though.

[ganesh]

I don't like Clara slapping the Doctor. Or anyone. Not for nothing, but it's a bad example for kids. Clara is a teacher. Rolling her eyes and telling the doctor to behave actually works. But they've had her do a lot of stuff like that this season and I think it's just poor.

I liked the concept even though it's been done. I was interested where the doctors was when he woke up.

I think the actor is fine, and I don't want Clara to die. I don't like that the companions have tragic ends. Though I think the Ponds ended fine.

I don't know but it seems like everything is a thing with Clara. I'd like to just watch some proper adventures.

The thing is, most of the stories on paper this series were good. But they go to far and drag it down. You don't need to name drop Aliens. I got it.

Funny too. I liked a lot of the guest characters for potential companions. This time it was Shona.

[cardigirl]

At least she wasn't telling him to shut up and do as he was told at the end of the episode. I could put up with her for another season/series if they keep her mellow.

 

She did tell him to behave though.

 

It one of the first things the Doctor says to her on the roof, to behave and get in the Tardis.  I tend to look at this as the way they talk to each other.  Everyone on the show says shut up.  Even Santa. 

Edited December 27, 2014 by cardigirl

[Archery]

I don't know, more and more I'm finding homage episodes of any show just plain lazy.

TV shows have been doing homages to literary works since TV began.

[random chance]

And I think it's lazy.

[jah1986]

Just saw it. This was the first time that Capaldi has felt like the Doctor to me, maybe he's finding some balance.  But I'm really over Clara, the show is just too much about her. I'm not making sense. It's time for a new companion.

[Darth Nigel]

Just thought of this.   Was the whole thing the Doctor's dream?   He was being attacked by the psychic head lice, and that was all.

Everything else was his imagination?

[MrHufflepuff]

Just thought of this.   Was the whole thing the Doctor's dream?   He was being attacked by the psychic head lice, and that was all.

Everything else was his imagination?

 

They should have done this.  It would have been cleaner.  Have the Doctor wake up one last time, killing the dream crab.  Then he goes back to find young Clara fine and dandy, and the experience of his dream leads him to reconcile with her.  But, instead, they have him go back and pull the dream crab off her face one last time, which introduces all the other plot issues.

Edited December 27, 2014 by MrHufflepuff

[benteen]

TV shows have been doing homages to literary works since TV began.

 

Agreed.  Classic Who did plenty of homages to classic movies as well.

 

Outside of the Shona character, I didn't think Moffat's script developed any of the "scientist" characters that well.  Though I liked that they were normal people in their real life.

 

I also agree though, why can't companions just leave for normal reasons?

Edited December 27, 2014 by benteen

[angora]

As soon as the Doctor mentioned that they might be from different times, I wondered if Ashley was Clara's daughter from the future.  I hadn't really been HOPING that Clara's pregnant with the late Danny's child, but it did seem like a Moffat thing to do, and it felt like Ashley would have fit.  Apart from the Excellent Questions and pseudo-companion brainstorming with the Doctor during the adventure, it seemed suspect to me that we only caught a glimpse of her waking up.  With Bellows, we got the granddaughter and the wheelchair, and we got the lonely Christmas to-do list and the Dave mention with Shona, but with Ashley, it was just, "She's awake!  Bye!" which made her feel a little unfinished to me.  I tend to think that, if Clara were pregnant and there weren't anything Gangerish going on, we'd know about it by now, but Ashley still tingled my spidey sense.

 

Maybe it's a cheat to rewrite the Doctor and Clara's entire dynamic with this episode, but their relationship in series 8 so often made me unhappy that I don't mind.  If they can stay more like this, I'll gladly consider it my Christmas present.

 

I don't know why, but I just adore prickly Doctor moments (note - "prickly" is not the same as "asshole."  There's a distinction, show, and one should be used a lot more sparingly than the other.)  I LOVED when he didn't want to get in Santa's hand-holding circle.

[shapeshifter]

Agreed. Classic Who did plenty of homages to classic movies as well....

If we want to go as far back as pre-history, King Solomon of Ecclesiastes (Hebrew scripture) said, "There is nothing new under the sun."

Anyway, maybe I'm just not familiar with very many Santa Claus variations, but I thought this episode's was pretty unique.

Oh dear. I just notice while making a typo that Santa is an anagram of Satan.

Okay then, forgetting that, I too like the scene with Shona dancing to not look at the brain eaters so they wouldn't rise up and attack. Very universal nightmare stuff done in a fun way.

As soon as the Doctor mentioned that they might be from different times, I wondered if Ashley was Clara's daughter from the future...

So would astronaut Pink from the future be Ashley's son?

She was lovely and yes, I could imagine her being what their child would look like.

Danny's strong-featured handsome face softened by Clara's cute-as-a-bug's-ear looks.

Edited December 27, 2014 by shapeshifter

[buttersister]

Loved Nick Frost's performance. Do not love that Clara is back. Show is titled Doctor Who not Doctor Companion. I could hope she'll be different, but hoping here leads to crushing disappointment (I was so excited about Peter Capaldi, but didn't guess he'd be appearing in DC).

[ketose]

I don't like Clara slapping the Doctor. Or anyone. Not for nothing, but it's a bad example for kids. Clara is a teacher. Rolling her eyes and telling the doctor to behave actually works. But they've had her do a lot of stuff like that this season and I think it's just poor.

 

It's still better than when she tried to kill him to get Danny back.

[Llywela]

Well, I liked it a lot better second time around, although was still bored by the Clara-Danny interlude. Sorry, Show, but if you wanted me to care about Clara's relationship with Danny, then both it and he really needed to be more than a plot device. As it is, both existed purely to give Clara a tragedy, and I resent the attempt at emotional manipulation.

 

I think my biggest problem with Moffat's Who is that it's a sit-com. Most eras of the show have their influences - the Hinchcliffe era in the '70s was gothic horror, the Davies era was soap opera, and the Moffat era is sit-com - exaggerated one-note characterisation, storylines twisted to achieve a stupid joke, little regard for logic or consistency. But sit-com doesn't work for me in Doctor Who. So I'm just going to have to grimace and put up with it for a little longer, alas.

I'm glad Clara is still around, even if the character hasn't always been handled well. I still want to know how and why the doctor kept running into iterations of her and nothing from the master episodes really settled that. But man old Clara really would have been a great send off for her.

We know why the Doctor kept running into iterations of her - that was settled back in the S7 finale when she jumped into his time stream and was scattered throughout his timeline. I mean, it's a massively flawed premise that wasn't well executed at all and I still hate it, but they did make that part pretty clear.

 

It one of the first things the Doctor says to her on the roof, to behave and get in the Tardis.  I tend to look at this as the way they talk to each other.  Everyone on the show says shut up.  Even Santa. 

He didn't tell  her to behave. He asked her to do as he was saying without argument just for once, because it was important, and for once she actually took him seriously and did as he was asking instead of getting affronted and making a fuss - as she did later, when he asked her (as a person not currently doing anything, who had asked to be kept busy) to fetch him the 'dead' dream crab hand and instead of just doing it, she started clutching her pearls and became all passive aggressive, 'shall I make a cup of tea while I'm at it', because how dare a man ask her to do anything, and she's got him so whipped he suggested the punch in the face himself. Sit-com relationship dynamics - and straw man feminism. He wasn't being patronising or chauvinistic. He asked her to do something to help with the investigation. She introduced a chauvinistic suggestion herself just so she could berate him for it, which is part of the unpleasant aspect of Clara's character that really winds me up. And to think people have criticised Sarah Jane for being a token feminist written by a man who doesn't really understand the issues - she's got nothing on Clara, who is 100% a male fantasy version of a strong female character, rather than an actual strong character.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Llywela

[cardigirl]

He must have said do as you're told in another epi.  At any rate, I am not bothered by Clara's so called "high handedness" as the companions all seem to  have some sort of repartee with the Doctor that does not seem like abject worship.  Wouldn't be much of a show if all the companion was around for was to simper after the Doctor.  ;)

 

And I would like to see more of Danny Pink, have his character expanded, but not certain he's just a plot device, because I rather like him just as he has been shown.  I thought it was interesting that he was able to voice his own thoughts in Clara's dream.  The Doctor seemed interested in that as well.  Supposedly Clara was controlling the dream, and yet, Danny listened to the Doctor and helped wake Clara up.  It could be that Clara really wanted to wake up, but I thought it was interesting that Danny seemed to be interacting with the Doctor outside of the parameters of Clara's dream.  Just my opinion.

 

Speaking of plot devices, one of the elves was called Wolf.  Or at least that was on the back of his vest.  Wonder if that had more meaning.

[romantic idiot]

That was a cruel, cruel tease. 

[alias1]

I think my biggest problem with Moffat's Who is that it's a sit-com. Most eras of the show have their influences - the Hinchcliffe era in the '70s was gothic horror, the Davies era was soap opera, and the Moffat era is sit-com - exaggerated one-note characterisation, storylines twisted to achieve a stupid joke, little regard for logic or consistency. But sit-com doesn't work for me in Doctor Who. So I'm just going to have to grimace and put up with it for a little longer,

Well, finally someone has clearly explained to me the big difference between Moffat and Davies and why I prefer Davies.  Thank you, Llywela!  Yes, a lot of Davies was soap opera, and very well done in my own personal humble opinion.  I have never liked sit coms.  They depend on stupid one liners that have no basis in reality.  The Christmas Special is another example of creating superfluous side characters that are strictly a plot device and are soon forgettable.  Even Shona, who most people here think should be the next companion.  What makes her so special?  That she had all the right DVD's for the episode?  It felt like just another (cutesy) Moffat plot device.

[ganesh]

I liked her because she was trying to keep her cool, but she was obviously scared. She was asking a lot of questions to figure out what was going on, and wasn't acting like a know it all. 

[alias1]

I liked her because she was trying to keep her cool, but she was obviously scared. She was asking a lot of questions to figure out what was going on, and wasn't acting like a know it all. 

I liked Shona, too.  She was the most fleshed out of all the side characters.  But I don't think that she would necessarily make a good companion.  Well, no better than a lot of the other characters we met over this past season.  

[millahnna]

She'd be fun for a small run at least, three or four or episodes or something. I totally don't remember the time stream scattering thing. I'm not sure if that says more about me or Moffat.

Edited December 28, 2014 by millahnna

[Archery]

I don't think Danny Pink was any more a plot device than Mickey, the butt of every joke and insult for two seasons.

[Llywela]

I don't think Danny Pink was any more a plot device than Mickey, the butt of every joke and insult for two seasons.

Mickey felt more like a person in his own right, to me at least. He had relationships outside of Rose and the Doctor. He had a life outside of TARDIS visits and excursions. He had lots of facets to his personality - he could be lazy, greedy and cowardly but also loving, clever and selfless, and all those things felt as if they were coming from him, in his human strength or weakness. He may have been the butt of many a joke, but he grew beyond his initial purpose as part of the life Rose was leaving behind - he had a story of his own, developed as a person. Danny Pink existed purely as part of Clara's story; beyond his soldier backstory (again a device to set him and the Doctor at odds, for no properly explored reason), he had no life outside of his relationship with Clara, his abilities and characteristics were exaggerated for either comic or dramatic effect (that gymnastic somersault, anyone?) rather than flowing naturally from his established personality. He was created as a source of conflict between the Doctor and Clara, and his eventual death was already planned from the start to give Clara a tragedy, with neither his character nor their relationship fleshed out in any way. We were simply told they were in love now, rather than shown how they got there. In this episode, he wasn't even a real person - he was an idealised version of Clara's memory of him and then the voice of the part of her mind that wanted to live.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Llywela

[amaginon]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. I did not enjoy the previous season so I stopped watching halfway through. I hated how obnoxious both the Doctor and Clara had become (did not like the boyfriend either). I was one of the few who actually enjoyed Clara pre-12 as a refreshing change after the staleness of Amy and Rory. But this episode made them all much more likeable again (even the boyfriend). If the Doctor and Clara stay this palatable and friendly towards each other I will definitely watch next season. 

 

And people keep on sniping how Inception did the episode first, NO, it did not, the idea has been around a lot longer than the movie. But I did like how the idea was used here. 

 

Very much hope both the Doctor and Clara stay as likeable characters in the new season.

[ketose]

The Danny Pink storyline could have worked much better if we got a little more of his backstory and if there was an actual relationship between him and Clara. Instead of Danny being right about the Doctor being the general, they made him wrong because despite all the other half dozen times he commanded others, he refused an army of Cybermen. Danny could have been the reason Clara decided to stop running from the tragedies in her life with the Doctor and start her own family, but Moffat just has to pull a fast one on the audience every time. Why give us happily ever after when you can give us Danny dying three times. I think he died more than Rory.

 

When the unexpected is the norm, it's not unexpected anymore. So many viewers guess what Moffat was going to do, it just ended up being dumb. I miss the days of the rubber monsters because at least their motives had substance.

[Llywela]

Instead of Danny being right about the Doctor being the general, they made him wrong because despite all the other half dozen times he commanded others, he refused an army of Cybermen.

But it isn't a binary opposition. Just because this sitcom styled season wanted to draw its character stories in stark black and white terms (good/bad, general/soldier, etc) doesn't mean we have to fall for it. Life is more complex and messy than that. Danny interpreted the Doctor's attitude as being like that of a general, and that combined with the Doctor's inexplicable sudden hatred for all soldiers turned into this whole binary head-butting thing, but in actual fact, it isn't a binary opposition of general/not general, black or white. 'General' isn't the only possible term for a person who takes the lead in a crisis, which is what the Doctor actually is. Take away the word 'general', which is a military rank and a term that comes stacked with military connotations, and look at who the Doctor actually is. He isn't a military leader. He's just a leader, which isn't the same thing.

[Pattycake2]

I was hoping the whole dream inside a dream inside a dream was just in Clara's head. And the chalk writings, etc. were messages from T he Doctor trying to save her as she was dying from eclampsia after giving Birth to a new generation of Pinks. And he failed. That would have worked for me.

[ganesh]

This whole "General" thing was a stupid creative choice by TPTBs. Yes, the Doctor for sure is the guy taking the lead in the crisis of the day and giving the orders. But he (1) usually knows the most about what's going on because the situation is beyond everyone's experience, and (2) takes on the most risk; c.f. nearly every episode of the show. 

 

Danny was saying the Doctor gives orders and puts others in harm's way. Clara easily could refute that and cite numerous examples of the Doctor as Eleven and Twelve so his whole argument completely falls apart. 

[cardigirl]

Danny was saying the Doctor gives orders and puts others in harm's way. Clara easily could refute that and cite numerous examples of the Doctor as Eleven and Twelve so his whole argument completely falls apart.

 

I rather thought it was his observation, similar to Rory's observation in The Vampires of Venice when he told the Doctor that he was dangerous because he made people want to prove themselves to him (despite common sense dictating otherwise).  Two boyfriends making observations about a potential rival for their girlfriend's attention? The Doctor doesn't believe in violence or guns, but he is the most feared person in the universe because he manages to somehow protect the earth by destroying the others' plans.

 

I think it's a fair observation.

[ketose]

I think Danny's (and Rory's) observations about the Doctor are pretty accurate for the kind of pompous ass we see in NuWho. The Doctor may not b a military leader, but he has the effect of one. He surrounds himself with people who believe in him and follow his orders. He convinces people to risk (and give up) their lives, sometimes when he knows that's the outcome. If "a good man goes to war" when it's the Doctor, it's also the case when any military power engages in a just war.

 

In Classic Who, the case would be harder to make. People gave up their lives for their own beliefs. Companions of the Doctor died, but generally by accident. Besides being Doctor focused,(and the Classic series really wasn't) the show is seriously Earth-focused. In this season, only a few episodes were off-planet and only Time Heist wasn't majority human. That's happened before in DW, but in this case the earthiness was used to construct another needlessly involved season arc. No one seems to be able to make a good anthology series anymore. 

[Archery]

I rather thought it was his observation, similar to Rory's observation in The Vampires of Venice when he told the Doctor that he was dangerous because he made people want to prove themselves to him (despite common sense dictating otherwise).  Two boyfriends making observations about a potential rival for their girlfriend's attention? The Doctor doesn't believe in violence or guns, but he is the most feared person in the universe because he manages to somehow protect the earth by destroying the others' plans.

 

I think it's a fair observation.

I agree. River makes the same, or a very similar, point in AGMGTW. And "Doctor" translated as "warrior" in the Gamma language.

The Doctor never wants to believe he is That Guy, but he generally is.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

I know a lot of people are commenting here and around the internet that it's a ripoff (homage, if giving a positive spin) of Inception...but Inception didn't invent this plot.  Any science fiction/fantasy fan of novels and shows since decades gone by could give other examples. 

Absolutely.  One of the oldest story ideas, predating modern science fiction by many centuries. 

 

Love Nick Frost and loved his Santa Claus.  Who hates tangerines?

[darkestboy]

I liked it a lot. Not my favorite Christmas special but enjoyable though.

Dream Crabs worked well as the aliens, the horror was good too. Bit Inception like in parts too.

Surprised by the way Santa was used but it worked well though, better than expected.

Saw the Danny cameo coming a mile off but it worked and he's still dead though.

Shona could come back, right? Liked Bellows and Ashley. Albert was wasted though.

Great stuff with Twelve and Clara throughout the whole episode too, 8/10.
 

[Eozostrodon]

I love that even in Clara's dream, Danny is a bit of a controlling dick.

[Llywela]

I agree. River makes the same, or a very similar, point in AGMGTW. And "Doctor" translated as "warrior" in the Gamma language.

The Doctor never wants to believe he is That Guy, but he generally is.

I think this is another new Who/classic Who divide. The new Who Doctors often are 'that guy' (but still not a military leader, just a leader). The classic Who Doctors really aren't.

[LadyArcadia]

I've ripped on this season and 12's reign so much I think it's only fair I give praise when it's due.  I actually enjoyed this episode (except for the last 3min).  It was scary, funny, and had interesting twists.  It felt like Doctor Who.  

 

And as much as I really hate Clara, I enjoyed their moment together on the sleigh.  If that is the type of relationship we will get next year, I might even tolerate her.

 

Kudos. It was my favorite so far.

[shapeshifter]

...And as much as I really hate Clara, I enjoyed their moment together on the sleigh....

A screen grab of that moment would make a great Christmas card--maybe with little blue police boxes and swirls as a border.

[romantic idiot]

I really didn't. It looked a little too romantic cheek-to-cheek moment for me. 

 

Eh, I'm feeling an irrational dislike towards Jenna Colemen for the tease. 

[OakGoblinFly]

Dang. Just we needed for Christmas: Inception and Alien in a pureed package. Oh, and the hopes that Clara would be too old to travel with Peter P- . . . I mean, the Doctor. Maybe Clara won't bug from here on out. Maybe Moffat will stop trying to cram her down our collective gob, and maybe he'll plant his focus on the Doctor. Christmas is about lots of things, and why wouldn't hope be one of them?

 

 

Doubt it since the end card said "The Doctor and Clara will be back" .... I don't think I've ever seen an end card with the companion's name listed.  I'm so very tired of Clara and her special snowflakeness (makes Rose seem tame in comparison) - and how many times did she have to say "Every Christmas is last Christmas"?

 

Ugh!  I just can't with her anymore.

[LadyArcadia]

Hey, silver lining?  It didn't say  "Clara and the Doctor will be back"

 

I'm trying...

[Sakura12]

For me the difference is, while insufferable at times, Rose seemed to really enjoy the adventures and hanging around the Doctor, while for Clara it seems like the Doctor and his adventures are interrupting her day and she goes along because she has nothing else better to do. I'd rather see someone enjoying themselves then someone that is indifferent to what the Doctor is showing her. 

[voiceover]

I thought it was charming.  Never thought I'd become as attached to Capaldi's Doctor as I have, but wow! loving him.

Who hates tangerines?

 

I thought it was an Americanized-up version of Ten's "A Satsuma!" during Christmas Invasion.

[voiceover]

I loved the Doctor referring to the older lady as "sexy one".

 

This, times 1000.

[ratgirlagogo]

 

Never thought I'd become as attached to Capaldi's Doctor as I have, but wow! loving him.

I loved him from the beginning.  I've also found it kind  of baffling that the show seems to think that I'm not supposed to find him sexy WHEN HE SO CLEARLY IS.  At least in this episode Clara didn't seem to find the task of being Dr Who's companion an infinitely annoying pebble in her shoe.