S25.E12: All Or Nothing

[needschocolate]

ETA for needschocolate: Remember, the Survivors and Firefighters had to take a penalty for giving up on the Roadblock along with the Realtors.

 

Thanks! And additional thanks for reminding me who those two blond ladies were at the finish line.  I had forgotten all about all three of the teams that took the penalty - it seems so long ago. 

 

You HAVE to complete that properly. "Millie and Chuck, Dating 11 Years, Virgins"

I wanted them on All Stars if only to see them update their tag line.

 

"Millie and Chuck, Dating 23 years, Had sex twice. Didn't like it."

[Pepper Mostly]

Brooke was just UGLY to the scientists in the airport, wasn't she? That was just unnecessary and unkind. Glad Karma bit them in the ass quickly for that. For the whole race, really.

 

And kudos to Maya, who not only refused to be baited but stayed friendly and classy. 

I am so happy the scientists won. I have hated the wrestlers for weeks and after the nasty way Brooke acted at the airport I was pleased as punch to see karma kick them in the face and them get eliminated. If you want to talk about fair, their NEL save was just as "fair" as this was.

I thought the scientists really did play a good game. They kept a positive attitude and didn't snipe at each other much, and Maya was so darn bubbly and enthusiastic. She's like I imagine I would be if I ever got to play this game, just so happy to be on the show and so happy to do every task. I loved them. Then again I have a soft spot for the Beakman Boys too. ;)

I love Amy and Maya and I had a soft spot for the Beekmans, but I think its because I read Josh's books. 

 

So, did Maya call the stunt man like she promised?  "You'll call me when you win the million dollars, right?"  "YES!!!"  (All CAPS, because, you know, it's Maya.) 

I thought that was an adorable moment. 

 

I think Brooke and Robbie, or any of the racers, should not have been that surprised to see Amy and Maya.  They know there wasn't a pit stop, they know first place didn't win a prize.  And I may be wrong, but I thought Phil told them all that 4 teams would continue racing.  Even if he didn't, knowledge of the race should have clued them in that this was mid-leg, not end-of-leg.  

 

And I maintain that there is no fair or unfair, because production of AR seems to make rules and then to stick to them (unlike, say, oh I don't know...Survivor).  And I'm sure the racers' contracts include language indicating that their race may not be exactly like previous racers'.  So to me, the race is fair, in that the first person to the mat on the final leg wins.  That's the goal throughout the entire race: get to the final leg, and then win it.  In the end, that is all that matters.  Winning more legs than anyone else doesn't matter; winning legs by a large distance doesn't matter; who did and did not get "saved" by either an NEL or an actual Save doesn't matter.  I don't think Adam and Bethany were ever saved, but all three other teams were, so them bitching about it is pretty hypocritical in my book.  If the dentists or wrestlers had been eliminated when they came in last, they would not be in the final 3, so it's crazy to me that they would get pissed off that Amy and Maya were still around due to yet another rule/ construct of the race.  I get that they might have been surprised, and under a lot of pressure, and exhausted, and so I'm willing to write some of the pettiness off, but Brooke was just bitter and hateful.  

I agree that Brooke is bitter and hateful, and I agree with everything you said about fair and unfair. Its their show, and their rules. Its what they say, not what any particular viewer thinks it should be. 

[needschocolate]

In case anyone is taking a poll - I think that Amy and Maya staying in the race and not having to do a speed bump was fair because it was a TBC and if any other team had gotten to the mat last, they would have also stayed in and would not have done a speed bump.  Same rules for everyone is what makes it fair in my book. 

 

Off the top of my head, I think the only place one could really argue that the race isn't fair is in the needle-in-a-haystack tasks because the later you get there, the fewer items there are to be found -- for example, if you are first to arrive, there are 10 clues buried in the pig trough, if you get there last, there may only be one.  But I would never argue that these tasks aren't fair because the racers determine when they get there - the last ones were mostly last because of their own mistakes or bad taxi luck (but, since anyone could have gotten that taxi, it is still fair). 

 

I was glad that it was a TBC last week, and I am glad the scientists won this week, and I am very, very glad that, because it was a TBC, Brooke never won a leg (they reached the mat first, but the leg wasn't over, so they didn't win the leg). 

 

I am also very glad there was extremely little bickering between teammates this season (at least not among the last 6-7 teams) - unfortunately, I don't think that will be the case next year.  The race is no place to try to figure out your relationship.

[Noreaster]

I think the whole fair/unfair argument is somewhat pointless with this show when the rules change season to season. However, we viewers certainly have the right to discuss our opinions and how we may find some task/leg designs problematic. It's their show but we viewers can have opinions.

And let's be honest, if we swapped Amy/Maya with Brooke/Robbie in the leg placings, some people here would probably change their tune about the whole fair/unfair thing.

[Lingo]

I think Brooke and Robbie, or any of the racers, should not have been that surprised to see Amy and Maya.  They know there wasn't a pit stop, they know first place didn't win a prize.  And I may be wrong, but I thought Phil told them all that 4 teams would continue racing.  Even if he didn't, knowledge of the race should have clued them in that this was mid-leg, not end-of-leg.  

 

From the bonus clips, you can tell that Phil didn't tell them that 4 teams would continue (because they were debating that), but he apparently did tell them that there would be a mid-leg elimination the next leg....that seemed to tip them off that Amy and Maya may not have been eliminated.

 

And as has also been noted, there's never been a TBC leg with a spoonfed long-haul flight. It was a TBC to the extent that there was no leg prize and no speed bump, but it was a NEL to the extent that there was a big ol' sitting-in-the-airport bunch before that Delta-promotional-consideration flight, which functioned as Pit Stop downtime even though teams were technically "still racing". Many of the things associated with past uberlegs -- particularly, teams being able to carry an advantage forward -- didn't apply.

 

I think there's been plenty of times when there's been, if not a "spoonfed long-haul flight", then at least a point in the middle of the TBC in which bunching is virtually guaranteed.  But as I said, that's exactly what I don't like about the TBC legs: the fact that the first episode is usually rendered moot.

 

This was no less fair than any other NEL/TBC.

 

It is less fair, because there's no speed bump.  Even Bethany says in a bonus clip that they should have to do a speed bump.

 

It may be "their show", but that doesn't make it fair, or good TV.

[shura]

Just rewatched the airport scene. The funniest thing about the fair/unfair discussion is that, at least at the airport, Brooke never said anything about fairness or lack thereof. The words "fair" or "unfair" were not spoken! She said it was very frustrating that Amy and Maya were not eliminated (Adam actually said the exact same thing there), that the previous stretch had been pointless (as quite a few people argue here), and when Brooke talked to the scientists, she very calmly and rationally agreed that they did not make the rules, but it was her right to feel frustrated with the existing rules. I didn't think she was being an ass. She was simply expressing her frustration. I wouldn't be offended if I was Amy or Maya, I thought Brooke was making a clear and thought out - on the fly! - argument. It was actually the first time when I could see her as an intelligent person rather than the dummy she came off as during the whole season. And then she made the joke about losing the mental task, and I saw more of that intelligence there - it was a good, self-deprecating joke.

 

As far as the wrestlers and the dentists being disingenuous because they themselves had been saved by NELs, how is it disingenuous to honestly speak what's on your mind? It may be ugly or disagreeable, but disingenuous it certainly is not. If the other teams were not frustrated at those NELs, good for them. If they were frustrated, but did not show it, good for them again, it's their choice, although technically this last one is disingenuous. There is a third reaction to seeing a non-eliminated team - Brooke's. To me, it's just as valid as the other two. So Brooke has a different reaction to someone's NEL than that person had to hers - what's wrong about that?  

Edited December 21, 2014 by shura

[kingshearte]

Personally, I kinda like the TBC legs because, as someone else pointed out, they do ramp up the fatigue element, which can make things interesting. I don't know that I particularly care for it right at the end, especially right after an NEL, but whatever.

 

I've been on Team Surfer from pretty early on, but I really couldn't bring myself to be disappointed with this result. Amy & Maya seem to be generally delightful, and they have really pulled through some things that were really tough for them. My husband wanted them to win just to spite Brooke & Robbie, so he was happy too.

 

Oh, Brooke and Robbie. I sympathized with her up to a point on this one. I can understand feeling frustrated, and we've all had those irrational "No fair — even though I would be totally cool with it if I were the one to benefit from it" moments. However, the grown-up, classy way to behave at such moments is to keep that to yourself, or vent to your partner, not be as nasty to other people as Brooke was there. I seem to recall them mentioning at some point that her wrestling character is a "good guy," while his is a "bad guy," and I find that interesting, because while he can occasionally be an ass, I always kind of felt like he was playing the asshole more than actually being one, and he seems to be a reasonably even-keeled, decent sort of guy. She, on the other hand, just seems toxic. I know there are people who are generally decent people, but who become intolerable in competitive situations, and maybe she's one of those and is usually delightful, but based on what we saw, I think Robbie deserves better.

 

I think those who are saying that the teams should have assumed a final memory roadblock and acted accordingly are being just a touch harsh, because that's hardly a given. I haven't watched all seasons, but of the ones I have seen, there have been at least a few final roadblocks that were not memory based, and the big memory task has not always been a roadblock. So I don't know that I would have made that assumption. Looking back and knowing what the first roadblock was, it easy to say that Bethany, Misti, and even Amy should have done it, in case the second roadblock (that does seem to be a fairly consistent feature of the final leg) turned out to be something really physical requiring two hands, significant strength or the ability to run. But given that they didn't know what the stunt would be before they chose who would do it, all three choices made perfect sense to me, as an action stunt could involve any or all of the conditions I just stated.

 

That final roadblock, though. Yowza. I'm pretty good with numbers, but that still sounded brutal to me. Just memorizing the numbers associated with each city I think I could handle. But then you have to get back and put them in the correct order, which is essentially introducing another set of numbers into your brain. That could so easily muck you up completely, especially with no notes, no partner to work with, nothing. Kudos to all of them for managing it at all.

 

And finally, regarding next season, count me as extremely skeptical. I believe I've said this before, but I think that TAR, more even than most other reality shows, doesn't need gimmicks to stay interesting. I think they could have aired 25 seasons following the exact same formula they used in S1 (with maybe just a few tweaks to address anything that just straight up didn't work), and it would still be interesting, because you have different inter- and intra-team dynamics, different locations, and different tasks. This need to constantly reinvent the perfectly good wheel is just silly. All dating couples, fine, whatever. Dating couples don't bother me. But teams of people who have never met? That doesn't sound good at all. I'll watch it, because at the base, it's still The Amazing Race, but I'm extremely skeptical.

[RedheadZombie]

Congratulations, scientists! I wanted Adam and Bethany to win, but am very happy for the scientists! I was hoping anyone but the wrestlers. Brooke was nasty to the end. Telling Robbie he had a crazy attitude when he was calm and speaking reasonably? But I did see at the end that she was clapping for the scientists, while Robbie was could barely bring his two hands together.

 

I actually re-watched that scene and got a good laugh.  He was just so funny.  Brooke blames Robbie for following "the man's" directions.  Robbie:  The man wrote down the instructions for you.  I don't know better than the man or you.  She complains they took the wrong route on a road split.  Robbie:  You wanted to go the opposite of what the man said?  What are you talking about?  Want to go to McDonalds?

 

I imagine finding a bra that she can wear with only one arm (not much of a shoulder) is difficult. I like the racer-back style myself and they don't make a lot of them with underwire support.

 

Bethany's shoulder looks pretty much intact, so I don't think that's the problem.   If it was, she could still wear a racer back bra or a good supportive sports bra (or two).  Some women just hate bras and hate feeling constrained.  Growing up on the beach and wearing bathing suits, she may just prefer feeling "free".  From one well-endowed gal to another, I would advise her to start supporting now, or regret it later.  Especially because she plans on multiple children.

 

I felt for Amy on that last task.  She was running back with all that data in her head, and there's Maya screaming support again.  That's wonderful, but the last thing she needed in that moment.

 

Jim and/or Robbie made comments about the scientists not being athletic.  Maya said she's competed in triathlons, and Amy seemed pretty aerobically fit and had pretty toned arms.

[Bluerang1]

Happy with the winners. Really either of the F5 winning was fine by me but I had a slight bias gor the Bikers and Wrestlers.

[millennium]

I wasn't going to watch the finale but I did ...

 

As a fan of the cyclists, it was satisfying to see Adam and Bethany get third.   Wipeout.

 

By the same token, it was aggravating that the candy scientists won.   I don't know which one is Amy and which one is Maya, but it was the smaller of the two who originally concocted the plan to double U-turn the cyclists and then enlisted the wrestlers and dentists to join her.   I hate mean-spirited hijinks like that.   If you're going to U-turn another team, fine, do it.   But don't recruit other teams to join you.   I can't think of any other form of race where entrants conspire to eliminate other racers.   

[Mumbles]

 

Jim and/or Robbie made comments about the scientists not being athletic.  Maya said she's competed in triathlons, and Amy seemed pretty aerobically fit and had pretty toned arms.

Yeah, I never got that "the scientists aren't athletic" crap. They never were the *most* athletic, but they looked in great shape compared to the general population.

 

I did laugh at loud at Brooke's candid, honest assessment that if a challenge required brains, she and Robbie weren't going to be up to the challenger

 

She was running back with all that data in her head, and there's Maya screaming support again.  That's wonderful, but the last thing she needed in that moment.

The woman seems incapable of being quiet.

 

As for the "it's not fair the Scientists didn't get eliminated/didn't have to do a speed bump" debate - in the past the AR has had 2-hour finales. Had this been a two-hour finale, there wouldn't have been the dramatic ending of last week's ep and people wouldn't have thought twice about them continuing on.

[peachmangosteen]

And let's be honest, if we swapped Amy/Maya with Brooke/Robbie in the leg placings, some people here would probably change their tune about the whole fair/unfair thing.

 

Not from me. I wouldn't change my tune about the fairness of it, I'd just hate that it happened because I don't like Brooke/Robbie.

 

It is less fair, because there's no speed bump.  Even Bethany says in a bonus clip that they should have to do a speed bump.

 

But it wasn't a NEL.

 

By the same token, it was aggravating that the candy scientists won.   I don't know which one is Amy and which one is Maya, but it was the smaller of the two who originally concocted the plan to double U-turn the cyclists and then enlisted the wrestlers and dentists to join her. 

 

I thought it was the Brooke/Robbie who got it going, which made them not even using the U-Turn even more hilariously stupid.

 

I don't understand how having an NEL/TBC this time is any less fair than any other time they had one.

[millennium]

Not from me. I wouldn't change my tune about the fairness of it, I'd just hate that it happened because I don't like Brooke/Robbie.

 

 

But it wasn't a NEL.

 

 

I thought it was the Brooke/Robbie who got it going, which made them not even using the U-Turn even more hilariously stupid.

 

I don't understand how having an NEL/TBC this time is any less fair than any other time they had one.

 

I'm pretty sure it was the scientists, specifically the little one who "runs laps."   I remember souring on them when it happened.

 

The finale was easily one of the most underwhelming I've ever seen.

Edited December 22, 2014 by millennium

[Netfoot]

And as has also been noted, there's never been a TBC leg with a spoonfed long-haul flight. It was a TBC to the extent that there was no leg prize and no speed bump, but it was a NEL to the extent that there was a big ol' sitting-in-the-airport bunch before that Delta-promotional-consideration flight, which functioned as Pit Stop downtime even though teams were technically "still racing". Many of the things associated with past uberlegs -- particularly, teams being able to carry an advantage forward -- didn't apply.

 

In Season 10 (for instance) the final episode had teams racing from Spain, through France -- where they faced various challenge tasks -- before finally catching a plane from Charles de Gaulle to JFK.  That would have been a "big ol' sitting-in-the-airport bunch."  No carrying forward of any time advantage.  So, just a chunk of the early part of the leg all meaningless and a waste of time?

 

I don't think so.  It wasn't a waste of time because we got to see it, and it would have had it's effect on the fatigue levels of the racers, which might have affected the outcome.  One way or the other, they always have a transportation bunch right before the return to the USA.  Sometimes it is right at the start of the leg, but sometimes it is in the middle.  Either way, someone's time advantage gets erased.  In S25 the bunch was in the middle of the leg which happened to be an UberLeg and broadcast over two episodes.  But from the PoV of the racers it really wasn't much different to the S10 finale.  In each case teams left the pit-start and raced to the final mat, with a transportation bunch along the way.  The only real difference between the two was how TPTB chose to air that leg.

[kassygreene]

Bethany's shoulder looks pretty much intact, so I don't think that's the problem.   If it was, she could still wear a racer back bra or a good supportive sports bra (or two).  Some women just hate bras and hate feeling constrained.  Growing up on the beach and wearing bathing suits, she may just prefer feeling "free".  From one well-endowed gal to another, I would advise her to start supporting now, or regret it later.  Especially because she plans on multiple children.

 

The thing about bras is ideally you "rest" them for a day between wearings.  Wearing the thing round the clock will accelerate it wearing out.  The race doesn't offer many opportunities for freshening up, let alone laundry.  I've always suspected that every stitch of clothing worn on the race, including shoes, gets pitched before they head for home.  After all, aren't they supposed to have the big bag of stuff for sequester?  I seem to remember the infamous Flo talking about how her sequester bag was crammed with books and music, because she expected they would be out early, and of course Zach carried her to the end.

 

I thought it was the Brooke/Robbie who got it going, which made them not even using the U-Turn even more hilariously stupid.

 

Double U-turning the two teams that went for the fast forward is so amazingly smart it can make your brain hurt.  At least one of those teams will not get the fast forward (in the right circumstances, neither team - shaved heads, anyone?), and u-turning both is almost a certain way of making sure one team will finish far behind you.  After all, you could wind up with a massive delay on a subsequent task, or trouble finding the pitstop.  Whichever team came up with the plan it was good game play.  For the Wrestlers to not play their part was evidence of difficulty with the mental aspects that they may not have been consciously aware of.

[biakbiak]

I'm pretty sure it was the scientists, specifically the little one who "runs laps." I remember souring on them when it happened.

No, it was most definitely Brooke and Robbie who came up with the plan on the ferry and all the other teams agree, including the surfers. It was why Amy and Maya were so pissed/confused when they didn't actually do it because it was the Wrestlers idea in the first place.

Edited December 22, 2014 by biakbiak

[peachmangosteen]

That's how I remember it as well, biakbiak. Though to be fair to Brooke/Robbie, all the teams were varying levels of enthusiastic about U-Turning the Cyclists. But still, it was indeed the Wrestlers who were shown as coming up with it.

[etagloh]

One way or the other, they always have a transportation bunch right before the return to the USA. 

 

They do now, because they realised in the teens that airport drama is incompatible with the last leg as they want it to play out. (This also, sadly, limits the final leg locations to international hub cities.)

 

 

But from the PoV of the racers it really wasn't much different to the S10 finale.

 

I respectfully disagree. The big difference in the TAR10 finale was that teams had free choice over their flights: all three teams flew separately from Barcelona to Paris; Lyn and Karlyn chose poorly by going back to Orly instead of CDG, ended up on a later flight from CDG and got the closest thing to a Guido Edit at the end. (In addition, Tyler and James might not have made it off the standby list, which would have left only Rob and Kimberly on the earliest flight.) You could certainly argue that a hypothetical TAR10 finale in which all teams chose to go to CDG for that last flight, or were told to go there, wouldn't have been very different, but that wasn't what happened.

 

Spoonfeeding that final direct flight -- the way the edit skipped check-in and cut to the gate was not subtle -- made it much more like the start of a new leg than a continuation. When the clue tells you which plane you're on, you're not really racing until the cabin doors open on landing. Levelling up the final teams on their flight doesn't feel so bad after there's been an elimination in the previous leg, but it doesn't sit well with "keep racing".

[jjj]

biakbiak -- yes, the Wrestlers were the ones who talked everyone else into U-Turning the cyclists; then backed out themselves when it came time to do it.  I found it quite hypocritical and cowardly -- they were counting on someone else to U-Turn the cyclists and avoid any fallout.

 

About the airport scene -- did the Racers even get to change their clothes?  I thought Adam was looking completely fatigued as he slouched in a chair.  And I wondered if what we saw as the final two episodes had actually been filmed to be a two-hour finale?  There have been four teams starting a two-hour finale, right?  This seemed like a very late finale, less than a week before Christmas. 

[Chyna]

As far as the wrestlers and the dentists being disingenuous because they themselves had been saved by NELs, how is it disingenuous to honestly speak what's on your mind? It may be ugly or disagreeable, but disingenuous it certainly is not.

 

 

I used the wrong word. I meant that it was hypocritcal.

[wineaux]

I'm pretty sure it was the scientists, specifically the little one who "runs laps."   I remember souring on them when it happened.

 

The finale was easily one of the most underwhelming I've ever seen.

 

As mentioned by others, Brooke and Robbie were definitely the ones who began the plot to u-turn the bikers when they were all on the ferry, and the others chimed in.   Below is a link from CBS's recap.  Read the paragraph under "PLOTTING".

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/amazing_race/episodes/213698/

 

I think this should resolve the confusion.

[Camera One]

I hate U-Turns but in hindsight, it was smart to use the U-Turn on one of the two strongest teams who went for the FF.  Even though the U-Turn never actually ended up being responsible for the elimination.  I doubt the Scientists would have won if the Bikers had stayed in the race.  I wouldn't have been surprised if the Bikers did the memory challenge as well as Amy.

[auntlada]

Why four teams to the finish?

 

They have to fly the fourth team to the final city anyway. Why not let four teams race? I thought it made the episode a little more exciting since it made it a race among three teams instead of a race between two teams (figuring that Robbie and Brooke would have still messed up their navigation).

[RococoChanel]

I am in the minority here. Am glad the surfers did not win. Bethany drives me crazy the way she speaks. In my opinion, she talks like a little child. She does not come across as the brightest bulb. I agree about the bouncing boobs. If nothing else, strap those down with two sports bras.

 

No, you're not. They were my least liked team, even less than the Wrestlers. The Wrestlers were at least interesting to me. I couldn't stand Bethany's uptalk and "bebbah"s, not to mention the super saccharine moment when they're on the train and the camera pans in closely to her face, illuminated by the sunlight through the window and she mouths "I love you." I dislike how they were edited and hyped, and my opinion was confirmed by her rudeness to the fireman. But that's just my opinion.

 

Cue puke. 

Edited December 22, 2014 by RococoChanel

[selkie]

They don't always show the mechanics of teams "asking" for laptops, cell phones or computer use at a hotel.  They only did that back in the first two or three seasons when people viewing didn't know the TAR rules.  Why spend screen time on the obvious and take it away from more interesting stuff? 

 

Yeah. When you're talking 40 hours of film minimum (and frequently far, far more than that) that's going to need to be edited down to a 42ish minute episode,  then airport non-drama is easy to cut in favor of more interesting things.  Though one of the posters at RFF did briefly make it on screen in TAR 24, IIRC, for being a laptop person helping Margie & Luke find flights in SE Asia.

[Molly by golly]

No, you're not. They were my least liked team, even less than the Wrestlers. The Wrestlers were at least interesting to me. I couldn't stand Bethany's uptalk and "bebbah"s, not to mention the super saccharine moment when they're on the train and the camera pans in closely to her face, illuminated by the sunlight through the window and she mouths "I love you." I dislike how they were edited and hyped, and my opinion was confirmed by her rudeness to the fireman. But that's just my opinion.

 

Cue puke. 

I don't think Bethany was rude to the fireman in any way at all even slightly. She's in a race, she can't stand around and talk.  Even at that she answered him enthusiastically when he asked if she was Bethany Hamilton and when he continued on she said she had to go.  I don't know what more could be expected?  I think these people are under extreme stress as well as fatigue (even if they've had a rest, a month of running around would be taxing), and I think sometimes their every little move and word is over analyzed and then judged.  I'm guilty of it too, just sayin.  They're human, and I've seen so much worse behavior by teams in every single race since the 1st, including by generally nice people.  I also don't understand how the teams are responsible for their edits? 

Edited December 22, 2014 by Molly by golly

[Molly by golly]

 

 

And finally, regarding next season, count me as extremely skeptical. I believe I've said this before, but I think that TAR, more even than most other reality shows, doesn't need gimmicks to stay interesting. I think they could have aired 25 seasons following the exact same formula they used in S1 (with maybe just a few tweaks to address anything that just straight up didn't work), and it would still be interesting, because you have different inter- and intra-team dynamics, different locations, and different tasks. This need to constantly reinvent the perfectly good wheel is just silly. All dating couples, fine, whatever. Dating couples don't bother me. But teams of people who have never met? That doesn't sound good at all. I'll watch it, because at the base, it's still The Amazing Race, but I'm extremely skeptical.

 I completely agree. I think this is going to be a mess when people who don't know each other are racing together. It reminds me of the season with the birth mother and her birth daughter meeting up at the race for the first time since the daughter was adopted out at birth.  Neither of them knew the others strengths or weaknesses and it really hampered their race at times.  

 

I don't understand why they would change what has worked so well for so many years. Please, no more gimmicks.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Molly by golly

[Molly by golly]

I actually re-watched that scene and got a good laugh.  He was just so funny.  Brooke blames Robbie for following "the man's" directions.  Robbie:  The man wrote down the instructions for you.  I don't know better than the man or you.  She complains they took the wrong route on a road split.  Robbie:  You wanted to go the opposite of what the man said?  What are you talking about?  Want to go to McDonalds?.

This was hilarious! He was so funny. She just has to blame someone else but herself for every little thing doesn't she?

[millennium]

As mentioned by others, Brooke and Robbie were definitely the ones who began the plot to u-turn the bikers when they were all on the ferry, and the others chimed in.   Below is a link from CBS's recap.  Read the paragraph under "PLOTTING".

 

http://www.cbs.com/shows/amazing_race/episodes/213698/

 

I think this should resolve the confusion.

 

I'm not confused.   I remember it differently.   Either way, the scientists were involved in that petty little plot, making them no better than the hated Brooke.

[Camera One]

For the Scientists, the U-turning was strategic to increase their chance of survival on the race.  It was petty on the part of Brooke who conceived the plan since the Bikers were her least favorite people, as described in the recap.

[Molly by golly]

I'm not confused.   I remember it differently.   Either way, the scientists were involved in that petty little plot, making them no better than the hated Brooke.

That was far from Brooke's only offense imo.

[wineaux]

I'm not confused.   I remember it differently.   Either way, the scientists were involved in that petty little plot, making them no better than the hated Brooke.

 

Truth be told, I liked the bikers, too…and a lot more than I liked the scientists at that point in the race.  However, in this instance, Brooke was the instigator and the rest of the teams went along with HER plot.  

[Ruprecht]

I was amazed as I watched the finale that I really wanted the scientists to win. Not because they were smart, women, or underdogs - but because the other teams (at least the wrestlers and dentists) were so dismissive of them and did not view them as athletic competition at all (and I say this even though I did like the dentists - especially Misti). I'm sorry but Amy ran that entire race with an injury and won. If she had been healthy, the team may have even taken other legs along the race. Maya may have had a tin ear about some of her comments but doggone it, she was HAPPY TO BE THERE! She was my proxy - it may have been some stunt casting but I loved seeing someone who was obviously a fan getting to do what I would love to do. And Amy could have been a poster from this forum - her droll comments were perfect (I just wish she managed to include a reference to a heavenly bathtub). 

 

Way to go, Amy and Maya! Well done!

[millennium]

For the Scientists, the U-turning was strategic to increase their chance of survival on the race.  It was petty on the part of Brooke who conceived the plan since the Bikers were her least favorite people, as described in the recap.

 

Why sanitize the scientists?

 

Strategy or not, they colluded with the wrestlers to u-turn the cyclists for no other reason than both parties knew they couldn't measure up to the cyclists as competitors.   Imagine if every contest were like that, where ability can be edged out by the degree of jealousy and manipulativeness in lesser competitors.

[biakbiak]

Strategy or not, they colluded with the wrestlers to u-turn the cyclists for no other reason than both parties knew they couldn't measure up to the cyclists as competitors. Imagine if every contest were like that, where ability can be edged out by the degree of jealousy and manipulativeness in lesser competitors.

.

Every team still on the race agreed to u-turn the bikers, I don't find trying to maximize the chances of getting a strong team out of the race to be petty, but strategic. The petty part came in Brooke's justification which was that they hung out by themselves and she didn't like them which was not the other teams reasoning. Edited December 22, 2014 by biakbiak

[green]

I was amazed as I watched the finale that I really wanted the scientists to win. Not because they were smart, women, or underdogs - but because the other teams (at least the wrestlers and dentists) were so dismissive of them and did not view them as athletic competition at all (and I say this even though I did like the dentists - especially Misti). I'm sorry but Amy ran that entire race with an injury and won. If she had been healthy, the team may have even taken other legs along the race. Maya may have had a tin ear about some of her comments but doggone it, she was HAPPY TO BE THERE! She was my proxy - it may have been some stunt casting but I loved seeing someone who was obviously a fan getting to do what I would love to do. And Amy could have been a poster from this forum - her droll comments were perfect (I just wish she managed to include a reference to a heavenly bathtub). 

 

Way to go, Amy and Maya! Well done!

 

I agree with everything you said except this definition of stunt casting.  Stunt casting usually means some sort of quasi-famous team (Surfers and Wrestlers to get fans of Bethany and wrestling fans to tune in, say) or reality show crossovers (to get Survivor and Big Brother fans to tune in - other seasons quasi actors/models/beauty queens too) or stuff like that.  Maybe someone outside the business who is well known like former ballplayer and famed bigot John Rocker on Survivor this season (shudder).  They usually never apply but are sought out by the show and are both recruited and are stunt teams.

 

Then there are "recruited" only teams without so much of the "stunt" part in them as in they aren't known by pretty much anybody before being "recruited."   A lot of low end mactor teams we never heard of but are on the fringes of "the business" or would like to think they are.  They often know someone in casting since lots of casting agents are young, failed "actor wannabees" and hangers on who run in the same set of people.  (The wanna be boys/girls network).  Or their agent knows someone and they want to get on for face time to further their show business or modeling "careers" ... real or imagined.  Also "pretty boy" teams like TAR4's Goats "recruited" at a bar by a casting agent that found them "hot."  Or the four "alpha" Cincy 20-somethings (tho one was still in his late teens) who won TAR Family Edition who had never seen the show but a casting agent vacationing in Cancun "saw" a highly "photogenic" family in her mind and the rest was horrible history.

 

Some people would argue having someone missing a leg or being deaf or a little person on the show is stunt casting.  I don't.  I think that is looking for a "type" just like looking for different ethnic and racial groups (which the Race should step up - too white for me and I am white myself) or age groups or sexual orientation or interesting professions etc.  So everyone has different definitions of "stunt", "recruited" and "type" I guess.

 

Maya, on the other hand, would be considered a "normal person" I think by most people because she actually applied for the show and was a big fan of it besides.  She wasn't a "type" either since she wasn't cast as a member of the lone, token "Afro-American team" though in the first two seasons their "token" rate was at least two teams and not one.  (Though All Stars 2 did have two teams and both ended up in the final 3).  She isn't in any form of show business or modeling either.  She is the type of person a lot of us wish was chosen for the show period.  What reality shows once held the promise of being about.  Like Festivis, the show for "the rest of us," heh.

 

Now stunt cast teams and recruited teams can be okay.  I didn't mind the Surfers or the Wrestlers this season though the Survivor couple was a total waste of casting space and would never have gotten on if they applied as any other couple would is my guess.  They had nothing to offer the show except two people most people don't even remember from their season.  So not all are terrible though their track record is pretty bad on the whole.  And a few a season are manageable.  But wall-to-wall-to-wall ones, not so much.  We need the majority of these teams to be real folks like we work with and meet every day for this to be a "reality" show for me personally.

Edited December 22, 2014 by green

[blackwing]

I've been out of town and was unspoiled and just got around to watching the finale.  Amazing!  Happy for Amy and Maya.  I have hated Bug Eyed Jim and Pancake Makeup Misti since the beginning, so I was especially happy to see them come in second.  Especially after Jim's toolish comment that "who cares that they weren't eliminated, they are low hanging fruit and next to go".

 

I liked the idea of the final challenge, but wow, it was dull to watch.  Would have been nice to see an overhead shot of the yard with the container locations marked, and three indicators for the three women, like rats in a maze.  Also would have been nice to see how they were all trying to remember the numbers, or some thinking out loud about the route order, etc.  As it as, what we saw was them struggling to find containers, them seeing some containers, Amy taking one try to get it right, the others taking a few.  Really really boring.

 

I especially loved that when Amy was presenting her numbers, Jim had his head against the container and mumbling and looked like he was praying that she would be wrong.  Ha ha!

 

As for fairness/unfairness... I don't care.  The Dentists and the Wrestlers both benefitted from NEL and their Speed Bumps were fairly inconsequential.  Also, on past races, even before any kind of penalty was enacted, teams (Florinka/Zach and Chris/Alex, and others) had NEL saves and still won.

[Netfoot]

Imagine if every contest were like that, where ability can be edged out by the degree of jealousy and manipulativeness in lesser competitors.

 

That is exactly what the U-Turns are for.  Included in the race design to give us a big ole dollop of Vote-Them-Off-The-Island-itis straight from the Survivor playbook.  I like TAR because -- for the most part -- a team's success results entirely from their ability to race, or their lack of such ability.  None of the cool kids ganging up to eliminate teams because they are strong, or unpopular, or just not so good at lying and ass-kissing and back-stabbing.  That is what makes TAR a superior competitive event when compared  to Survivor, Big Brother, or any other shitty reality television show.

 

Unfortunately, TPTB seem to believe that the viewing public want winners decided by lying, back-stabbing and so forth.  And maybe they are right.  Hence the Yield, the U-Turn, and also Mugging, Marked for Elimination, and Speed Bumps.  I sure wish TAR would revert to a cleaner, earlier form, where these gimmicks were not used, but maybe TPTB is right.  Maybe 90% of viewership would abandon the show, if they didn't have the hope of seeing a good team Philiminated by bitches like Brooke, and a U-Turn board.  Or some tail-end team trying desperately to avoid elimination, told that this is a NEL, then punished with a Speed Bump on top of being hours late.

 

Maya, on the other hand, would be considered a "normal person" I think by most people because she actually applied for the show and was a big fan of it besides.  She wasn't a "type" either since she wasn't cast as a member of the lone, token "Afro-American team" though in the first two seasons their "token" rate was at least two teams and not one.  (Though All Stars 2 did have two teams and both ended up in the final 3).

 

I agree that Amy & Maya are about as far from stunt-cast as it's possible to get.  And they are a perfect example of why I don't like stunt-casting.  Famous Survivor or Big Brother alumni are usually boring (eg. Keith & Whitney) or gorge-inducing (eg. Brenchel) whereas the Amys & Mayas show us that ordinary people can be extraordinary.

 

I really don't understand all that about Afro-American token-rates.  I understand that TPTB try to bring diversity by including people of different race, gender, age, sexual orientation, type of pre-existing relationship (S26 aside) and so forth.  I don't believe any sort of quota is set in stone, and if TPTB produced a season which happened to include no Afro-American contestants, or no older contestants or no gay contestants, or no Blond bimbo contestants, or etc, I would not be overly distressed.

[millennium]

Every team still on the race agreed to u-turn the bikers, I don't find trying to maximize the chances of getting a strong team out of the race to be petty, but strategic. The petty part came in Brooke's justification which was that they hung out by themselves and she didn't like them which was not the other teams reasoning.

 

There's no lesser evil.   They all conspired, they all planned to reap the rewards.   Every one of them is equally petty/strategic (take your pick).

[Quilt Fairy]

They probably expected the memory task to be done together as a team, as per previous seasons.  I wanted to see how Amy would have stacked against Jim and Adam.

Maybe I'm just having a senior moment, but I don't recall any memory task done by a team together. It's always been a roadblock done by a single team member.(Of course, I bailed on last season's finale because I didn't want any of the final3 teams to win.)

 

What Brooke said at the airport wasn't that it was 'unfair' that Amy and Maya were still in the race, she said it was 'disgusting'. Just when I thought I couldn't dislike her any more, she set the bar even lower.

[jette]

Quilt Fairy, totem poles! And that's all I've got

/senior moment

[Camera One]

The Totem Poles from Season 23 is the one I remember too.  So yeah, it's a little odd that Adam and Bethany didn't think of saving him for the possible final memory task.  Unless they didn't know the details of the stunt?

[MyAimIsTrue]

I finally watched the finale and I actually jumped off the couch and screamed with joy when I saw Amy and Maya running toward the finish line first.  Usually my favorite team comes in fourth place so this was an actual thrill for me (and, no doubt, for them.)  After Maya left the stunt place still in her uniform and they lost the lead I figured they were done but kudos to Amy for getting the shipping container task on the first try.

 

Great finish to a very enjoyable season!

[Donny Ketchum]

Ugh. Thanks to some non-payment issues with my Internet, I lost my connection for three days.  But I'm back to offer my take!

 

It was a brilliant finale!  Actually, I thought it was one of the better final legs of the latter-day TAR!  The final Roadblock was one of the best since probably TAR17's "remember the greeters" final task.  Also, no one ran a completely perfect leg tonight.  Everyone made mistakes.  But this time, the team that made the fewest mistakes won the whole thing!

 

So now the teams:

 

Amy & Maya: Yay!  I'm so happy the nice team won!  I knew that nugget of Maya's mentioning her and Amy being the third women's team to win two weeks ago meant something!  Save for one little mistake, these girls just dropped the hammer and killed the final leg!  For once, it seemed like their navigation was spot-on, they didn't seem to get lost (or if they did, it certainly wasn't for long), they got to City Hall faster than the other teams, Maya aced her Roadblock (despite her initial, irrational fear with jumping three times), they saved their dummy fast, and they stayed in a dead heat with the other teams the entire time!  Their only real mistake was not reading the clue about Maya removing her stunt outfit.  Still, Amy rocked out that final Roadblock and got them the win they so deserved!  Great job, ladies!  And they won the whole race in front of Brooke & Robbie, the team who'd been most critical of them!  Robbie was PISSED to see them win!

 

Misti & Jim: Seriously?  Don't see how they could've grown on anyone, especially after Jim's comment of kicking Amy in the shins.  But anyway, it seems that Jim got hit by his own hubris when he was so sure that he and Misti were going the right way to city hall and were the only team doing so, only to find out they'd quickly gotten lost!  And then, they did again on the way to the first Roadblock!  They did well to make up the time at the Coast Guard task, and I think that if Misti had been just a bit more careful at that final Roadblock, they would've won.  At least Misti was a good sport about the win.  Jim clearly wasn't willing to be one until he was offered the chance to be by Amy.

 

Adam & Bethany: My rooting value for this team decreased when Adam let his irritation at Amy & Maya being saved be known.  But that was it.  Other than that, they made a couple of mistakes of their own when they got lost on the way to the first Roadblock.  Though I tittered when the fireman seemed to recognize Bethany.  Didn't know she was that well-known.  That said, Adam killed the first Roadblock, and they killed the Coast Guard task.  But when the last Roadblock was revealed to be a memory-based one, and Bethany was stuck doing it, I knew they were toast.  And indeed, she proved my thoughts correct.  Still, good on them to reach the final leg, and I'm glad they took losing with grace.

 

Brooke & Robbie: If Jim got beaten by his own hubris, then Brooke & Robbie got beaten even harder by their own!  While I give Brooke credit for admitting that Amy & Maya didn't make the rules and actually explaining why she felt irritated at them still being in it, I found her calling their survival "disgusting" as completely off-putting.  And Robbie, as usual, wasn't much better.  Still, I'd already known they'd be falling out of the running in fourth place, but didn't know how.  Until they kept getting lost.  By far, that was the worst final leg of racing I'd ever seen.  But so worth it for their mid-leg elimination.  I kinda figured it was coming at the first Roadblock when I only saw three boats at the Coast Guard task.  But I'd have liked seeing one of them do the task, anyway, and then being tossed at the boats . . . unless that was the plan, and they took too long finding the place.  Either way, a well-deserved comeuppance for them, and it was even more worth it seeing Brooke try to pretend to be happy for Amy & Maya at the finish line (she went right to hug Misti & Jim after all the teams had finished) and Robbie just looking like he wanted to be anywhere else.

 

Fantastic ending to a fantastic season with one of the most fantastic casts ever!  I hope the show casts four women's teams more often.  Both times they've done that, one has won!  (Four were in TAR17, which Nat & Kat won, and now, four were in TAR25, which Amy & Maya won!)

Edited December 23, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[Tahitigirl]

I agree with everything you said except this definition of stunt casting.  Stunt casting usually means some sort of quasi-famous team (Surfers and Wrestlers to get fans of Bethany and wrestling fans to tune in, say) or reality show crossovers (to get Survivor and Big Brother fans to tune in - other seasons quasi actors/models/beauty queens too) or stuff like that.  Maybe someone outside the business who is well known like former ballplayer and famed bigot John Rocker on Survivor this season (shudder).  They usually never apply but are sought out by the show and are both recruited and are stunt teams.

 

Then there are "recruited" only teams without so much of the "stunt" part in them as in they aren't known by pretty much anybody before being "recruited."   A lot of low end mactor teams we never heard of but are on the fringes of "the business" or would like to think they are.  They often know someone in casting since lots of casting agents are young, failed "actor wannabees" and hangers on who run in the same set of people.  (The wanna be boys/girls network).  Or their agent knows someone and they want to get on for face time to further their show business or modeling "careers" ... real or imagined.  Also "pretty boy" teams like TAR4's Goats "recruited" at a bar by a casting agent that found them "hot."  Or the four "alpha" Cincy 20-somethings (tho one was still in his late teens) who won TAR Family Edition who had never seen the show but a casting agent vacationing in Cancun "saw" a highly "photogenic" family in her mind and the rest was horrible history.

 

Some people would argue having someone missing a leg or being deaf or a little person on the show is stunt casting.  I don't.  I think that is looking for a "type" just like looking for different ethnic and racial groups (which the Race should step up - too white for me and I am white myself) or age groups or sexual orientation or interesting professions etc.  So everyone has different definitions of "stunt", "recruited" and "type" I guess.

 

Maya, on the other hand, would be considered a "normal person" I think by most people because she actually applied for the show and was a big fan of it besides.  She wasn't a "type" either since she wasn't cast as a member of the lone, token "Afro-American team" though in the first two seasons their "token" rate was at least two teams and not one.  (Though All Stars 2 did have two teams and both ended up in the final 3).  She isn't in any form of show business or modeling either.  She is the type of person a lot of us wish was chosen for the show period.  What reality shows once held the promise of being about.  Like Festivis, the show for "the rest of us," heh.

 

Now stunt cast teams and recruited teams can be okay.  I didn't mind the Surfers or the Wrestlers this season though the Survivor couple was a total waste of casting space and would never have gotten on if they applied as any other couple would is my guess.  They had nothing to offer the show except two people most people don't even remember from their season.  So not all are terrible though their track record is pretty bad on the whole.  And a few a season are manageable.  But wall-to-wall-to-wall ones, not so much.  We need the majority of these teams to be real folks like we work with and meet every day for this to be a "reality" show for me personally.

I realize that the surfers appear to be stunt casting, but, for what it's worth, I know for a fact that she's a fan of the show and applied several times before being cast for S25.

[North of Eden]

Just watched now...man it was a Red Letter week in CBS Reality programming for me...SURVIVOR and AMAZING RACE both had the players I wanted to win...actually win! I don't think that has ever happened.

 

Some random observations.

 

Brooke is vile and Rob is a lunk head. What's your natural reaction when lost trying to win a race for a million dollars? Why sit there and ARGUE about getting lost instead of getting moving again!

 

Bethany lost points when the Fireman tried to tell her that his daughter was a big fan and her reaction wasn't a gracious thank you but instead saying they were in a hurry. Not cool.

 

Adam did the best stuntman jump and the whole stuntman thing was way better than the ridiculous David Copperfield trick where we are suppose to believe  that the non participating racer is suppose to believe their partner burned to death in the trick.

 

That container challenge was totally WORTHY of a final leg task! To this day I am still stunned in NYC that time on of the final tasks was to eat a pizza...simply unbelievable! And when I heard Misti had to do the task I knew the dentists were done...detail orientated she was not (think the restaurant challenge in Europe).

 

The changing weather at the lighthouse behind each after race confessional was interesting.

 

Phil popping out from behind a crate to eliminate the Wrestlers was a thing of beauty. I figured they were done when I saw only three coast guard boats on station.

 

Must have been a Saturday for L.A. City Hall to be a ghost town.

 

Looks like next season the "pre existing relationship "is out the window ala Eat Sleep and  Mingle.

 

And lastly Props the Sweet Scientists...they were adorable throughout and I enjoyed rooting for them. Amy and Maya are great winners and I loved Maya bumrushing Phil for the hug...most enthusiastic and positive racer ever and the Anti-Brooke!

[Donny Ketchum]

And I may be wrong, but I thought Phil told them all that 4 teams would continue racing.  Even if he didn't, knowledge of the race should have clued them in that this was mid-leg, not end-of-leg.

I think the surprise shown by not only Brooke & Robbie but also by Adam & Bethany tells me that Phil didn't tell the teams.

[Donny Ketchum]

Donny Ketchum might know if there were previous legs like this in the race.

I don't know all of them, but the one that really comes to mind for me was TAR10's Madagascar to Finland to Ukraine double leg.  There was a flight after the TBC in Finland.

[cooksdelight]

I thought I remembered a flight involved in one previous race, thank you, Donny!

[blackwing]

I think another final memory task that was done as a team is Kat and Nat with the computer screen of greeters and their hats.

Edited December 23, 2014 by blackwing