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Tara Ariano

S29.E11: Kind Of Like Cream Cheese (11) / Still Holdin' On (12)

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L.J., and THANK YOU, @truthaboutluv, for calling him that.  I thought I was the only one who'd thought of him that way.  Back at TWoP, EVERYONE praised and slobbered all over him, when I thought he was just plain boring and did only one thing that was really any good when he found the Beauties' idol.  But other than that, he was BORING.  Everyone was so sure he'd win, I laughed so hard at everyone there when he was blindsided.

 

Getting back to this season, though, I loved the pure exposure of Jon and Jaclyn's both separate and joint entitlement issues.  Definitely can't see them winning with the editing showing those moments.

 

Natalie FTW!  Wouldn't mind Baylor, either.

 

I didn't get why everyone was slobbering all over LJ and I wasn't one of those, he didn't do it for me. There was Jeremiah, Spencer, & Woo, who were eyecandy LJ looked old and we wondered why Bryce was on the beauties tribe lol.

 

Anyways back to this season, I can only hope that Natalie wins or Keith squeezes out a win. That would be hilarious if Keith did win. As he's the one who's back is completely against the wall now and he has to win an immunity challenge.

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Last night, Jon talks about his dying father, and how they have only recently become close.  He has also mentioned his girlfriend's inability to biologically have children.  And he discussed his love of wine and all the nuances of tasting wine.  

 

I finally put it all together and realized - Jon is auditioning for Chopped (and probably hoping for an episode where every basket contains a bottle of wine).  

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I watched TAR and found the twins over the top but had a deep affection for them.   I was thrilled to see them here and was dashed when Nadia was first out.  I am rooting for Natalie and will be profoundly bothered if she does not win.  Good things will come her way from this, I hope.  Smart, beautiful and strong woman.  How can you fail with that? She is destined for some good stuff.  I would love to give her a good haircut.  Not short but layered properly with the blonde gone.  

 

ETA- did not like they stole the hairs money but have forgiven that and I cannot defend why!  I guess I just like them. 

Edited by wings707
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I'm disturbed each season by the fact that I prefer these guys starved and scruffy.  When I see them at finale I think - ugh, what happened.

 

Yes!!  I was just thinking this to myself today.  I was watching some of the Ponderosa videos where Jeremy and Reed were lamenting over how skinny they looked and I was thinking, but you look goood!  All those defined muscles.  Then I felt ashamed that I like the look of starving people.  I'm fine with liking scruff though.  

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Very happy with both boots. So glad that Reed is gone and that I don't have to listen to that voice anymore. I agree with the comment upthread that he is not a nice person. He is extremely catty, and he has a very high opinion of himself and knows he likes to thank that his shit don't stank. He and Josh seem to be a perfect match.

Also glad that Alec is gone. As he said himself, he pretty much sucked the entire time.

I like Jon and Jaclyn the most. But I also like Natalie and I'm surprised by how much my opinion on Baylor has changed. She's smarter than I thought. I think Natalie overplayed her hand. She should have just voted out Keith as was the plan. Now the other three are suspicious. As Baylor said, the two of them could just as easily have gotten Alec's vote and they could have blindsided Jon. Will be interesting to see Nat's explanation next week.

I really don't fully understand why Nat is still so loyal to Jeremy. She knew him for 21 days and yes she was allied with him but at this point she's making it too personal. She is allowing her hatred for Jon's engineering of Jeremy's ouster to muddle her strategy. She could have gone to Keith and Alec and told them to vote out Jaclyn. Then next week she has the numbers with Missy (who would surely join Baylor) to vote out one of Alec or Keith and they run to final three.

But she was so fixated on blindsiding Jon that she preferred to not to tip her hand. Now he's on the alert.

Edited by blackwing
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My understanding of the pre-TC vote discussion was the Five were going to split their votes - three (Jon/Jaclyn/Natalie) for Keith and two (Missy/Baylor) for Alec.​

 

Thank you for this - I somehow missed it, and was really confused about why Missy looked so shocked when Alec was booted, even though she voted for him.  But really, it shouldn't be that big of a deal, if everyone was willing to lose Alec if Keith had played his idol.  It's not like Nat turned on the alliance in a major way.  

 

He can't possibly be missing the fact that if the plan proceeds as expected, we end up with Missy/Baylor as one twosome, and Jon/Jaclyn as the other twosome, which puts his entire game at the mercy of Natalie, who hasn't forgotten what happened to Jeremy.

 

I think Jon can quite possibly be missing this fact.  And many many other facts as well.  Dim bulb, that one.  

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Have to agree that Jon/Jaclyn thinking that they have all the power as the swing votes is not very bright.  The swing votes get voted out as soon as  their vote is not needed. Also have to agree they are way way entitled.  Comes from being a beauty queen, and whatever it is that Jon is.

 

Sometimes I see flashes of maturity in Baylor, mostly in relation to how her Mom makes very very bad choices in her personal life.  However, that does not preclude Baylor from being a brat.  Brat doesn't  mean evil, and it is definitely not as bad as Jon/Jaclyn's entitlement issues - however, if Baylor had money, then she would feel entitled.  Missy - there is only a couple of words that come to mind to truly describe Missy, and it would be catty to say them.  She will never have anything of material value, if she wins the million, she will blow it on lots of stuff known as vices, and be one of those lottery winner types that end up bankrupt.  She's just that non-intelligent. .   

 

Truth is I'm hoping for Keith.  He works hard, wins challenges, and is highly entertaining.

Edited by mythoughtis
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Not that what people refer to as 'helicopter parenting' is part of that.  I'm a proud, heavily-involved parent and people who don't like it can kiss my ass, so I suppose who am I to judge her gestures?  lol

 

What Missy does is in no way helicopter parenting.  What she does is 'your kid looked at  my kid funny... I'm going to beat your ***'  type of parenting.   Helicopter parents want their kids to turn out successful, and wouldn't tolerate their children being bullies, wearing low cut tops , skirts up to here, and so forth. Missy would thrive on having a daughter that did all that. 

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This grueling pair of episodes started out great with the fight and everything, but it was all a lot of smoke with no fire.  I'm sure the producers were just as frustrated as I was that none of the camp drama lead anywhere gamewise.  I found the shocked looks at the end sort of ridiculous--OMG THE WRONG SPLIT-VOTE TARGET WENT HOME, #BLINDSIDE!!  Please. 

 

Have to agree that Jon/Jaclyn thinking that they have all the power as the swing votes is not very bright.  The swing votes get voted out as soon as  their vote is not needed. 

 

Hasn't worked that way for them so far.  I think "swing votes always die" is a very overstated piece of Survivor-fan dogma, and especially so on this season when Jon and Jaclyn are swinging as a pair.  Jon and Jaclyn were both annoying at some point this episode, but I don't think they're playing as badly as a lot of people seem to think.  (I also will say that I didn't find Jaclyn that bad--yes, she was overreacting to not being taken on reward, but Jon was being way dismissive in a gross way, and I dunno, I've needed that kind of "get out of my face" time when I've fought with boyfriends myself.  Also, while I did think she was being very mildly flirtatious with Alec, so what?)

 

However their edit--particularly Jon gargling his wine--makes me feel it's pretty unlikely they'll win.  Jaclyn maybe.  Although I see why people find the editing frustrating this season, I have to say it's nice for once not to know for sure who is winning six episodes from the finale.  I have no idea.

 

Still finding Probst's relationship with the cast fascinating.  He was so disgusted that they weren't playing the reward game right, and so hopeful that this would bite them in the ass.  But unfortunately for him (and me--I agreed with him on this one) it didn't really work out that way.  I'm surprised he doesn't seem to see Jon in the Alpha Male Hero Worship light that he has seen so many other dudes in, some of them much duller than Jon.  I guess it's because Jon is so goofy?

 

I don't know who I would vote for if there was a FTC right now with all of them there.  Just as I find Jon and Jaclyn underrated, I think Natalie's being somewhat overrated--can't see this as anything but making a move to make a move, out of frustration.  I would probably put J/J over her, and Natalie over Missy/Baylor, and M/B over Keith...but the differences are very slight.  It's a small-potatoes kind of season.  I guess we'll see what happens.

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I think it's sad that Jeff's response to that challenge was "well, let's call the whole thing off" rather than forcing them to continue and reveal the pecking order. It's like he doesn't even understand the show any more.

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Is it wrong that I want to see those two dummies end up together (Alec and Baylor)? They're kind of perfect for each other.

 

"People don't know Baylor, I've got like, feelings and stuff".

"Wow, he's so much more than i thought he was"

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I liked that at least Reed was trying to play the game but I just don't like him. Glad he's gone. He's so desperate and his brat comment was unnecessary.

Jon is a douche but I did not see anything wrong with his interactions with Jaclyn. He didn't really snap and Jac was just being a princess as usual.

Last week I thought i'd hate to see Keith wins but maybe it wouldn't be so bad. Considering who left in the game it will be equally funny to see them do the final tribal speech. Keith'd just spit his way throughout the speech. Jon'd show what a clueless he is. Jaclyn'd be as self absorbed and all about me me me. Missy'd just being so defensive about her daughter. So can't wait to see that.

Natalie should have just voted out Keith but on the other hand if Alex stayed, J&J might considering Alec as their third (Jon probably won't but Jaclyn might) So I don't know. We'll see.

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Probst was pissed and persnickety about the thrown challenge.

Rightfully so, since they figured a way around revealing the pecking order, which is the point of that challenge. When they got down to their F5 alliance, they openly discussed who should be chopped next. None of these people are brainiacs, so I was amused that, in their stupidity, they found a way around revealing alliance order. And a classic challenge bites the dust.

And if either him (Jon) or Jaclyn doesn't win immunity at F4, he can present a unified voting block and threaten the immunity winner with the thought that they might be forced to draw rocks.

At F4, ties are decided with making fire. Rock draws are for ties before that point. 

Edited by riley702
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RickyP, I really like your analysis of how Jon should have seized control of the game.  I think that the reason he didn't is that he already thinks he has the game under control.  I don't know why but he seems to think that being the swing vote is the same as controlling the game.  It will be interesting to see how the next episode plays out-especially if he doesn't win immunity.  I also wonder if Jaclyn would vote him out in an effort to win the game herself.

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I think it's sad that Jeff's response to that challenge was "well, let's call the whole thing off" rather than forcing them to continue and reveal the pecking order. It's like he doesn't even understand the show any more.

 

 

It did reveal the pecking order with the picks for the reward. There's a reason the reward is never one person and they always have to choose because that breeds resentment sometimes (see Jaclyn) and reveals who's tight with whom. They may have done the bullshit "we're all so close and we'll just discuss together who should win it" but Missy's decision to go with Natalie along with Baylor did suggest to Jaclyn, true or not, that she and Jon were at the bottom of the 5.

 

I remember Rob after All-Stars saying it was one reason that as much as he wanted the reward where they got to go away from camp for a night, he was also happy he didn't get it because while he would have chosen Amber as the first person to join him, the second choice could have caused issues. Because he might have considered choosing Lex, to still keep him secure at the time that they were tight, but that might have pissed off Big Tom and others in his original alliance so at the end of the day it wasn't worth it. And other players have said that - rewards can be a dangerous thing when you have to pick people to join you. And this is why this game is so awesome. Everything is a source of paranoia and any small decision can screw up your game. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Add me to the list of people glad Reed is gone. I wanted to like him, but he was just plain mean a lot of the time, and had far too high an opinion of himself. The snotty "I have twelve horses at home" comment just sealed the deal for me.

 

I can see the pros and cons of the Natalie's flip to boot Alec rather than Keith. Chief among them is that she's likely earned two vital jury votes in Keith and Wes (presuming we end up with a Nat/Baylor F2 which is my guess at the moment). Keith sounds like he knows he's not getting to the end, but will respect the fact that Natalie thought he was more worthy of keeping around. Also she has herself a useful ally in the next vote, as well as a viable option for blocking Jon from an immunity run. She is playing with fire though, Jon and Jacqueline will be in full paranoid mode next week and there is an outside chance Keith could steal the win. 

 

Short of an immunity run I just don't see how Jon or Jacqueline can win from here. The thing that has kept them in the game until this point (swinging) is exactly what will account for their (surely imminent) demise. I actually quite like Jon, I think he's a bit of a sweetheart. The combination of being too trusting and too complacent/cocky will be his undoing, however. Jacqueline did come across as a princess in this episode - yet she was correct about her two main points. (1) It was Natalie and Jacqueline who prompted Jon to play his idol last tribal, not Jon himself. I could see why the lack of credit would piss her off, she clearly hates being considered a Julie-style hanger on to a strong man, which I actually admire. Also praising Natalie might have led to a strengthening of their core alliance, the social game is something Jon is not paying enough attention to and (2) they should have flipped to Keith and Alec side because it's clear that Jon and Jacqueline are never going to get into the final 3 given how tight Nat/Baylor/Missy are. 

 

All up this has been a disappointing series, with too many dull contestants chosen for the wrong reasons. Where have the brains been this season? Plenty of brawn and beauty, but no one like Chaos Kass. 

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Guest

It did reveal the pecking order with the picks for the reward. 

 

I didn't get this part... So it's down to the five and they openly start to discuss who should be out next.  Before they decide much, Jeff butts in and lets them declare a winner now.  Baylor (I think) says, "Missy would probably win," seemingly out of the blue.  And 1-2 others agree and they hand Missy the win.  But they started out discussing it and then ended by basically letting Baylor 'nominate' Missy and Missy second it and no one objected.  Does that mean that they all know that Missy is still the most under-rewarded or is she in control or in danger of flipping, or are they all just too nice to object and say, "Maybe I want reward or X does"?  

 

I was annoyed we didn't get to hear the rest of the trivia questions, and see who knew their shit about people.  

Edited by Guest

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I was referring to Missy's decision of who to take on the reward with her. That was what revealed the pecking order and Jaclyn more or less said this in all her self-important ranting. That it showed her that Missy and Baylor were really close to Natalie and so when it got down to 5, she and Jon would be in trouble. For the record, that may not be true but that's the danger of rewards which is what I noted in my post. In a game filled with so much paranoia, who you take with you for a reward could make others very suspicious and start second guessing their place in their alliance with you and next thing you know, flips and blindsides happen at tribal council. It's why Natalie knew to take them with her on her reward all the while she was plotting to get Jon get out because she needed him confident and secure so he wouldn't see it coming.

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... it's clear that Jon and Jacqueline are never going to get into the final 3 given how tight Nat/Baylor/Missy are. 

 

You know, I'm not so sure that is clear. I believe there's a pretty big chance Missy would choose Jon over Natalie. I thought her and Jeremy were super close and she chose Jon over him and it seems that Missy is even more bonded to Jon now then she was then. So, I'll give Jon some credit here for not being completely clueless about things because I do believe he's right about having control over Missy.

 

Does that mean that they all know that Missy is still the most under-rewarded ... or are they all just too nice to object and say, "Maybe I want reward or X does"?  

 

A bit of both of these, I think. Missy has that story going of not having won a lot of rewards and being 'tired' and whatnot. Plus, Baylor just saying Missy would win gave everyone an easy out on actually making any decisions, so they just went along with it. I think it really only pissed Jaclyn off. Natalie doesn't care about rewards, Jon knew he was gonna go to EI and find a HII, and Baylor knew her mom would take her.

Edited by peachmangosteen
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Hasn't worked that way for them so far.  I think "swing votes always die" is a very overstated piece of Survivor-fan dogma, and especially so on this season when Jon and Jaclyn are swinging as a pair.

 

 

Off the top of my head, I can't recall a "swing vote" (i.e. someone who is not part of either of two otherwise equally split alliances) who lasted very long (unless they also turned out to be Goats).

 

I think the "dogma" is that players who are self-proclaimed "swing votes" don't have the power that they think they have.  

 

Granted, Jon and Jaclyn have lasted longer that most "swing votes" because they represent a two-vote bloc, and that has made them valuable to the competing alliances even when the competing alliances are unbalanced by one vote as well as evenly balanced.

 

I'm also very curious to see how a 3-person FTC would play out with an intact couple making up 2 of the F3.  In a purely numerical sense, they'd have a 2 in 3 chance of winning.  But in reality I think there's a greater likelihood that going to a F3 FTC with along with your partner actually hurts both of your chances.

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I was referring to Missy's decision of who to take on the reward with her. 

Oh, right, I know.  It didn't look like it how I started that post, though!  I was just confused about how Baylor basically got to pick the winner. 

 

A lot of good points have been made.  Missy should've sent Baylor to EI to get the idol, left Nat at camp to run interference and taken J/J on reward.  

 

It's starting to sound like that riddle with the fox, chicken and corn.  Heh.

 

A man has to get a fox, a chicken, and a sack of corn across a river.

He has a rowboat, and it can only carry him and one other thing.

If the fox and the chicken are left together, the fox will eat the chicken.

If the chicken and the corn are left together, the chicken will eat the corn.

How does the man do it?

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Off the top of my head, I can't recall a "swing vote" (i.e. someone who is not part of either of two otherwise equally split alliances) who lasted very long (unless they also turned out to be Goats).

 

I think the "dogma" is that players who are self-proclaimed "swing votes" don't have the power that they think they have.  

 

Granted, Jon and Jaclyn have lasted longer that most "swing votes" because they represent a two-vote bloc, and that has made them valuable to the competing alliances even when the competing alliances are unbalanced by one vote as well as evenly balanced.

 

I'm also very curious to see how a 3-person FTC would play out with an intact couple making up 2 of the F3.  In a purely numerical sense, they'd have a 2 in 3 chance of winning.  But in reality I think there's a greater likelihood that going to a F3 FTC with along with your partner actually hurts both of your chances.

I totally agree about the swing votes and the dogma.

 

The FTC scenario is interesting.  I suppose it could also be argued that a pair in the final might be more likely than 2/3 to have one win because the jurors might feel like they were rewarding two people, so letting down only one?  Though the reverse could be true-- if they're bitter, either of the pair with bloody hands might lose it for the whole pair.  

 

How fun would it be if a pair made it to the end, one with badly bloodied hands, and the other one argued they would take the winnings all for themselves?  Jaclyn: "Giving the win to me wouldn't be rewarding Jon.  We're not married.  I'm not even sure I like him anymore.  With a mil, I might like being single just fine, it's not like I can't adopt on my own."  Heh.

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 I think Natalie's being somewhat overrated--can't see this as anything but making a move to make a move, out of frustration.  

 

I agree about this so much. She is playing the game but that doesn't mean she is playing it well. On top of my head, she's made 3 big mistakes that could cost her.

 

1. Not getting rid of Jon when she had the chance. Warning him to use his idol did nothing to help her; Jon refuse to give her credit.

2. She shouldn't have tipped her hand in getting rid of Alec of all people if she wasn't going for the kill. Jaclyn. Now she has Jon, Jac and Missy giving her the  side eye.  The only advantage is maybe having Keith on her side. The same Keith who told Missy they were planning to vote out her daughter. That genius.

3. Not clarifying for Missy and Baylor that the Idol belongs to her. I still think it'll come to bite her.

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I agree that Natalie's decision here was mostly, "making a move to make a move, out of frustration." But I guess it doesn't bother me too much because I can understand that inclination and because I think that ultimately it won't hurt her/voting out Jaclyn would've been a bigger mistake.

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3. Not clarifying for Missy and Baylor that the Idol belongs to her. I still think it'll come to bite her.

I think they all know that it's technically Natalie's and she'd have to choose to give it to one of them.  I think the rules are very clear on it.  

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AANNNDDD I officially like absolutely like no one! Just a bad season all around.

Mistake 1-Giving those idiots flint when they "lost" it & were apparently to stupid to look for the dam thing.

Mistake 2-Giving them so more food when they scarfed down what they had. Tough. Go look for more food! Have we even seen anyone try to fish or find berries?

Mistake 3- "I want KFC, Coke, And wings before I quit this challenge" Probst- "Oh o.k." Brings it out. Correct answer "People in hell want ice water. If you want to quit, quit. No skin off my nose"

Mistake 4- Stopping the challenge because the idiots kept discussing who would win. Probst should have stopped the challenge all right-and sent the directly to tribal for being so stupid and eliminate 2 people as punishment.

\Mistake 5- How dam many immunity idols are there????? Good Lord. One  a season is fine! We son't need a million of those things.

Basically I think they have coddled this group with flint, food, and anything else there little hearts desired instead of, I don't know, playing the game! It's called SURVIVOR not 4 star hotel with room service. Sigh. I miss Richard Hatch and the days when Survivor meant really surviving.

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I like Jon and Jaclyn the most.
Why?  This week showed neither one is particularly nice or likable.  At all.
I dunno, something about his earnestness really resonates with me.  I like the fact that he's flawed, he doesn't seem that astute about the game and he doesn't come across as this evil mastermind.  He has this good ole boy charm that makes people like him, and Missy seems really tight with him and it seems she's like Mom to him.  He seems fairly affable, I laughed at his imitation of "who wants to date someone who doesn't make the merge" Kat and his jubilation over being switched over to Jaclyn's tribe and the first thing he said was "I get to sleep with you!".  I'm sure he meant "sleep sleep" but still.

 

As for their "fight", I was completely on his side.  He came back from Exile after two days.  Hasn't seen his girlfriend at all, hasn't even had a chance to tell her about his new idol.  But she's immediately all "let me tell you about what's going on" and in game mode.  He was just happy to be back with her, and she wouldn't let him enjoy that at all.

 

I also don't understand why he's taking flack for saying he wants to be with her despite her lack of a uterus.  I don't think he's staying with her to be a martyr and to prove to the world that he is a good person because he wants to marry a woman who can't have children.  He wants to be with her, and is willing to accept any challenges and deal with them.

 

I don't think Jon and Jaclyn are revelling at being the swing votes.  They are the swing votes because everyone else has been making them the swing votes throughout most of the game.  As Reed said, he could just as easily go to Missy and Baylor and try to get them to join him.  Well, why didn't he try?  

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Along the lines of "every little move matters," Baylor jumping in first to answer Jeff's question with "Looks like it's going to be my mom" was a great move, intentional or not.  Anyone who disagreed had to keep quiet or else speak out against Missy/Baylor.  And lord knows those ladies really hold a grudge.

 

I hope Baylor's perception of Natalie's HII being "theirs" comes into play.  Natalie said in some interview that she planned to find it and slip it quietly into her pocket, but then she got all excited and couldn't stop herself from jumping around and screaming.  Pfffft.

 

I guess I'd choose Natalie for the win over the others, but losing her cool after finding the HII is not her first bad move--she's no Survivor Mastermind.

 

.

 

 

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It's starting to sound like that riddle with the fox, chicken and corn.  Heh.

 

A man has to get a fox, a chicken, and a sack of corn across a river.

He has a rowboat, and it can only carry him and one other thing.

If the fox and the chicken are left together, the fox will eat the chicken.

If the chicken and the corn are left together, the chicken will eat the corn.

How does the man do it?

Four trips. First takes the chicken across, leaving the fox and corn together. Second, pick up the fox and take it across, but bring the chicken back with you so it isn't left with the fox. Third, leave the chicken and take the corn across and leave it with the fox. Fourth, go back for the chicken.

Yeah, I get it - this bunch isn't up to figuring out something that complicated. But I knew the answer! I had to say it. ;)

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As for their "fight", I was completely on his side.  He came back from Exile after two days.  Hasn't seen his girlfriend at all, hasn't even had a chance to tell her about his new idol.  But she's immediately all "let me tell you about what's going on" and in game mode.  He was just happy to be back with her, and she wouldn't let him enjoy that at all.

 

See I thought that too at first. But on reflection I think it's more likely his justification to himself - which remember we got much later as a talking head. When couples fight each individual always has their own justification/revision story in their head for how they behaved. If you just watch their reunion in isolation it could be all sorts of things going down between them.

 

I may be wrong but I think it was more a case of him being tired and pissed off that Jacklyn was trying to take control of their strategy again, and in a way that he didn't think made sense. It was clearly something they fought about the first time - when she was right, and I'd argue she was right to contemplate switching back here as I think Baylor and Natalie are very tight, and most importantly I think Jacklyn has picked up on the fact that Natalie dislikes both of them whereas Jon definitely has not. 

Edited by Misty79
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Why did it never occur to Natalie and Baylor to take out Jaclyn?  I would think if I was either of them that I would want to bring Alec into the final three.  If Baylor made it to the final three with her mom and Alec, her or her mom were sure to win.  If Natalie made it to the final three with Alec and either Missy or Baylor, she's probably be the winner.  Takling Jaclyn out would have isolated Jon and put Natlie in the advnatageous position of being the player in the middle, able to stay aligned with Missy and Baylor or flip and use Keith and Alec to pick off Missy or Baylor.

 

And they really need to get rid of immunity idols on Exile island.  It's a ridiculous advantage to give to someone who is basically there because they lost.  So now they get a clue and loads of time to find a hidden idol without any distractions.  At least idols hidden by the camp can be competed for.

Edited by Dobian
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It did reveal the pecking order with the picks for the reward. There's a reason the reward is never one person and they always have to choose because that breeds resentment sometimes (see Jaclyn) and reveals who's tight with whom.

 

That's why I hate these team reward challenges they keep having.  No choosing = no drama and no information.  Finally there were individual reward challenges this time.

 

Off the top of my head, I can't recall a "swing vote" (i.e. someone who is not part of either of two otherwise equally split alliances) who lasted very long (unless they also turned out to be Goats).

 

I think the "dogma" is that players who are self-proclaimed "swing votes" don't have the power that they think they have.  

 

Yes, that's the dogma, and it's overstated.  Cirie in Micronesia is a classic example, and if you're swinging as a group (which Jon and Jaclyn are), like Taj, JT, and Stephen in Tocantins post-merge, you're golden.

Edited by KimberStormer

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Why did it never occur to Natalie and Baylor to take out Jacqueline?  I would think if I was either of them that I would want to bring Alec into the final three.  If Baylor made it to the final three with her mom and Alec, her or her mom were sure to win.  If Natalie made it to the final three with Alec and either Missy or Baylor, she's probably be the winner.
I wouldn't take a chance on taking Alec to the jury.  If it's a final 3 vote, that means there are 8 on the jury.  Alec would probably get the votes of Josh, Reed, Keith and Wes.  Add one more bittercakes at the other 2 finalists, and Alec wins.  If it's a final 2 vote and there are 9 jurors, Alec could get the same four plus one.

 

In the past we have seen other jury votes still vote for the best person even though they were bitter at their ouster by him (Tony and Tyson are the two most recent examples) but I see this particular bunch of jury, especially the Josh alliance, being very petty and catty and unable to let things go.

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I agree that Natalie's decision here was mostly, "making a move to make a move, out of frustration." But I guess it doesn't bother me too much because I can understand that inclination and because I think that ultimately it won't hurt her/voting out Jaclyn would've been a bigger mistake.

 

It doesn't bother me too but I am talking about the praise she is getting for making that move. Jaclyn would have hurt more but if she wasn't going for broke and breaking up the two bloc votes, she should have left things alone and stayed true to her alliance.

 

I think they all know that it's technically Natalie's and she'd have to choose to give it to one of them.  I think the rules are very clear on it.  

 

I hope you are right. Missy saying Baylor found the Idol in her talking head gives me pause. 

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Oh, I didn't hear that.  Natalie found it, right?  Maybe she meant that Baylor 'found it' as in Baylor 'found out Nat had it'?  Odd word choice, considering how Baylor found out.  

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Oh, I didn't hear that.  Natalie found it, right?  Maybe she meant that Baylor 'found it' as in Baylor 'found out Nat had it'?  Odd word choice, considering how Baylor found out.  

 

 Someone here corrected me, initially I thought Baylor told Missy she found it thus Missy talking head about being proud Baylor found an idol. Natalie apparently told during their time away that her she and Baylor found it. I have no idea why Natalie will do that. 

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but I see this particular bunch of jury, especially the Josh alliance, being very petty and catty and unable to let things go.

 

 

Based on the Ponderosa videos, the only person still a little bitter and angry about their ouster is Jeremy and even he is more or less fine. Josh was fine with his elimination right after it happened and he has been nothing but pleasant and happy at Ponderosa. If I was the Final 2/3 I would be more concerned about Alec, Wes and Keith if he's not in the end not because I think they will be bitter but because they're not the brightest with this game and could make the most random votes. I absolutely believe Jeremy, Reed and Josh will vote based on who they think played the best game. If Missy is there but Baylor makes it to the end, she'll vote for her and vice versa. If Natalie gets voted out, I see her also voting for who she thinks played the best game. If Jaclyn is on the jury and Jon in the end, like Missy and Baylor she'll vote for him and vice versa. 

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I think what Natalie said was "Me and Baylor [shudder] found the idol."  Because they were looking for it together and were together when Natalie found it.

 

I think Natalie realizes that she found the idol herself and the only reason Baylor was there is that Natalie talked her into looking for the idol.  I hope and believe that Natalie knows full well that the idol is technically "hers" but that allowing Baylor (and Missy by extension) to have a sense of ownership of it will only help her in the long run.

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Yes!!  I was just thinking this to myself today.  I was watching some of the Ponderosa videos where Jeremy and Reed were lamenting over how skinny they looked and I was thinking, but you look goood!  All those defined muscles.  Then I felt ashamed that I like the look of starving people.  I'm fine with liking scruff though.  

 

I think all men and women look better when they look natural.  Most people throughout the history of the human race look more like what you and others refer to as the "scruff" look.  No silly gym muscles but real life muscles.  No tons of makeup and hair-dos.  Advertisers and media sell an unnatural version of humans to most people.  Then businesses "require" that look.  Totally unnatural.

 

Off the top of my head, I can't recall a "swing vote" (i.e. someone who is not part of either of two otherwise equally split alliances) who lasted very long (unless they also turned out to be Goats).  ...

 

Someone upthread mentioned Circe.  But I was also thinking of the person whose name is on the tip of my tongue and won't pop off of it despite her being one of the most well-known Survivors ever.  She won twice.  The Puerto Rican lady whose tag line was kind of "as long as it isn't me" as she was always providing a number for an alliance that wouldn't vote her out.  I loved her style of play and feel dumb I'm blanking on her right now.  Help me out guys so I can do a Homer Simpson "d'oh" to my forehead.

 

ETA thanks to SnarkKitty and Dobian for the quick reply.  How could I forget Sandra's name.  She was one of my all time favorites too.

Edited by green

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Missy was stupid to take Natalie on the reward. Jaclyn has been flipping left and right and everyone knows it is Jaclyn who is sensitive. So why would you leave her behind with the three members of the other alliance? Really Missy? And then there was the discussion with Reed

 

 

I was yelling in frustration at the screen to just say "Jaclyn and Jon went on the last two rewards, and Natalie didn't get to go because she gave hers to Jaclyn, so it's the fair and right thing to do."  That would have shut Reed down and made the Pissy Princess look even worse had she pursued it.

 

 

The episodes last night were full of examples of entitlement issues that the two couples have.  ...'Jaclyn continues to believe that she is the single most important person there and not only should everyone realize it, they should continue to give up their rewards for her or at least take her along on theirs.  I so wish that Natalie and Jeremy had not given their rewards to Jon and Jaclyn as that only fed into their entitlement issues. 

 

These people are the worst.

 

Those of you who've been arguing that Jaclyn is an entitled princess who demands that everyone kiss her ass at all times can now feel a hearty sense of vindication. While I could see her logic in not wanting to be in an alliance with the guys who considered her nothing more than Jon's second vote, she was ridiculous last night in wanting to flip back to them now just because Missy didn't pick her for the reward. Worse, she seemed to blame Baylor and Natalie for not saying, "oh no, take Jaclyn instead," claiming that the three of them were being disrespectful to her. Only someone who thinks she should always get her way could classify not getting to go on a second (or is it third?) unearned reward as disrespectful. 

 

This would have been the third unearned reward in a row. Like, really bitch? Really?  And why hasn't her princess ass been sent to Exile like Natalie (volunteered!), Baylor, Julie or Jeremy's wife? I'm mad she got the third anyway although I get why Natalie did it after the bitch-fit she pitched last time. I might have taken Baylor instead of Jon though, and claimed it was to have a girl's day. I just hate seeing those entitled blovats get everything, it's fucking annoying. But I get why she did it.

 

Their lovers' quarrel was interesting for a hot minute; Jon really has that grovel down pat, huh? I was fine with her being pissed in the moment, although she could have said "fine, I get it" when he explained he just wanted to talk to her without the game after his return and moved on. No, Pissy Princess had to drag it out for the next 5-6 hours and then some, up until tribal. That's one spoiled little bitchlet and Jon will be kissing that bony ass for a long time to come; she's already taught him how to treat her.

 

Keith - stop spitting, ugh! I've had to figure out a way to anticipate the camera swinging his way, and then averting my eyes fast enough when it does. I have this weird thing that when someone else spits or hocks one, I have the urge to spit as well, it's like I can feel it in my mouth. Which is fine when someone outside does it, but incredibly inconvenient when home watching TV!

 

I actually had a 3 hour block of show to watch having skipped last week in protest of Jeremy's blindside. Didn't care which of them was booted after that. After two weeks ready to see them all go:  Missy out - vote out Jon/Jaq - vote out Jaq/Jon - Keith, Baylor & Natalie in F3; Nat for the win!

 

Green asked:

 

 

But I was also thinking of the person whose name is on the tip of my tongue and won't pop off of it despite her being one of the most well-known Survivors ever.  She won twice.  The Puerto Rican lady whose tag line was kind of "as longs as it isn't me" as she was always providing a number for an alliance that wouldn't vote her out.  I loved her style of play and feel dumb I'm blanking on her right now.  Help me out guys so I can do a Homer Simpson "d'oh" to my forehead.

 

 

That would be Sandra! Sandra Diaz-Twine, my favorite Survivor ever.

Edited by SnarkKitty
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Someone upthread mentioned Circe.  But I was also thinking of the person whose name is on the tip of my tongue and won't pop off of it despite her being one of the most well-known Survivors ever.  She won twice.  The Puerto Rican lady whose tag line was kind of "as longs as it isn't me" as she was always providing a number for an alliance that wouldn't vote her out.  I loved her style of play and feel dumb I'm blanking on her right now.  Help me out guys so I can do a Homer Simpson "d'oh" to my forehead.

That was Sandra.  Yes, she has the bragging rights as the all-time Master Survivor.  For a former champion to win it again is really impressive.

Edited by Dobian
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Sandra is the only two time winner and she played a far more complicated game then "as long as it isn't me." She was insanely loyal and happily went after people who burned people in their alliance and were assholes. She was the one who burned Russell's hat.

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Someone upthread mentioned Circe.  But I was also thinking of the person whose name is on the tip of my tongue and won't pop off of it despite her being one of the most well-known Survivors ever.  She won twice.  The Puerto Rican lady whose tag line was kind of "as longs as it isn't me" as she was always providing a number for an alliance that wouldn't vote her out.  I loved her style of play and feel dumb I'm blanking on her right now.  Help me out guys so I can do a Homer Simpson "d'oh" to my forehead.

I think that was Sandra. But I'd say that both Cirie and Sandra played more of an Under-the-a Radar"/"Anyone-But-Me" strategy.

I think that's different. Those are players who make sure they're not perceived as threats. They may sometimes happen to be the deciding vote at at TC, but that's just a function of the numbers.

I consider Swing-Votes (especially self-proclaimed ones) to be players who no one wants, but whom both alliances have to work with situationally and temporarily to get numbers

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Well I think Jon shouldn't have openly volunteered to go to Exile if he's going to miss Jaclyn for 2 days, like he hasn't been to Exile before. If he's like this for 2 days I can only imagine Jon at work for 8 hours, complaining to his co-workers how much he misses Jaclyn. I know that Keith, Reed, or Alec had no shot at going to Exile because the other alliance don't want them finding the HII.  Looks like there's another to be found since it looks like this season there's a total of 3 or I could be wrong since so close to final 6 and I think that's when idols expire. Good thing they got rid of the Tyler Perry idol, cause that one sucked. 

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Probst was pissed and persnickety about the thrown challenge.

I didn't read Jeffy that way at all. He seemed almost giddy to bail on finishing the game and getting to go back to his plush accommodations earlier than expected. I think ol-time Jeffy would've continued on and ignored their chattering, so I'm not really sure what's up with him this season.

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I didn't read Jeffy that way at all. He seemed almost giddy to bail on finishing the game and getting to go back to his plush accommodations earlier than expected. I think ol-time Jeffy would've continued on and ignored their chattering, so I'm not really sure what's up with him this season.

Thing is, Probst is always smiling even when he's ticked off, and I suppose you can definitely argue it both ways on how he felt when the players talked out loudly about who to chop next, et al.

 

Perhaps this particular variety of challenge needs to be retired if the players are seeing through it.

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I think what Natalie said was "Me and Baylor [shudder] found the idol."  Because they were looking for it together and were together when Natalie found it.

 

I think Natalie realizes that she found the idol herself and the only reason Baylor was there is that Natalie talked her into looking for the idol.  I hope and believe that Natalie knows full well that the idol is technically "hers" but that allowing Baylor (and Missy by extension) to have a sense of ownership of it will only help her in the long run.

But it won't help her if she refuses to hand it over when they want her to.

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Looks like there's another to be found since it looks like this season there's a total of 3
I was wondering about the third Idol too.  Keith, Jon and Natalie all had one.  Keith and Jon both used theirs.  One gets re-hidden on Exile.  Jon finds it.  Reed gets voted out.  Next round, Alec goes to Exile and Alec gets voted out.  Shouldn't the other played Idol have been re-hidden, at least during the round Alec got voted out?

 

We didn't see Alec on Exile at all, so not even sure if he got the same clue Jon did or a new clue.  Odd.

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I think what Natalie said was "Me and Baylor [shudder] found the idol."  Because they were looking for it together and were together when Natalie found it.

 

I think Natalie realizes that she found the idol herself and the only reason Baylor was there is that Natalie talked her into looking for the idol.  I hope and believe that Natalie knows full well that the idol is technically "hers" but that allowing Baylor (and Missy by extension) to have a sense of ownership of it will only help her in the long run.

 

Why even make that statement when you backtracking would sever the very ties she's trying to make. 

 

I don't think Natalie thinks 2 steps ahead before she makes a move. 

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