Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Featherhat]

9 hours ago, Trini said:

I want all the Lois & Clark tropes but I know this show will never be that 😢

I think the new Lois & Clark show is going to be the new Lois & Clark show. And I'm sad because that Lois has not impressed me yet. 

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

So Candice doesn't know why her fans want to know if she is the crossover. Maybe it isn't a big deal to her as it is to her fans. She does seem happy about her role in the show this season.

Maybe she doesn't think of the crossovers as a big deal in terms of exactly how many episodes she's in? Some actors really get excited for them, some are ok with them but then enjoy getting back to their regularly scheduled programming and others seem to appreciate the lighter month when they aren't featured much. 

It generally doesn't impact the rest of the season, although this year's definitely will and it's often a masked-palooza, and her character doesn't wear one. In general she seems they type of actor who cares more about the quality of the storyline for her character and isn't obsessed with word counts or screentime counts. And of course she's not going to start showing IF she's frustrated publicly, especially so early in the season. 

I just think Cisco and Kamilla are such a different couple, used for different purposes that it's useless to compare them, even though it would be excellent for WA to have some fun moments despite the sword of Damocles hanging over them. Fun and cute is all they have for Cisco/Kamilla because we've not really been given much reason to care about them beyond the fact that they're cute and make each other happy. Plus in a Cisco centric ep it's not surprising. 

[adora721]

Oh, Amunet is back to tell Caity Frost what an extra special snowflake she is; that is Amunet's sole purpose.

[legaleagle53]

16 hours ago, Trini said:

Good news / bad news:

Ugh - NO:

Linda, Marlize, Jesse Quick, Iris' stepsister; can any of those ladies come back?

It depends on whether Jesse Quick survived the destruction of Earth-2 that we saw on Arrow.

[phoenics]

On 11/2/2019 at 3:43 PM, SevenStars said:

So people who have already seen 6×05 said that it is very Cisco center, and we only get maybe two small scenes with Iris and Barry. 

So I think those scenes will be when Barry suggest they go on a vacation and one scene for when they come back from this off-screen vacation. All that press and interviews, and this is all we are going to see, lol. 

I had a feeling the tradition of Iris/Barry being off-screen for their vacation would continue. Also, Candice did warn us that Iris wasn't really in this episode. 

I tried to tell folks.  I've been getting screamed at on Twitter for a week for correctly predicting this, lol.  I knew we weren't going to get anything real with Barry/Iris.

This is worse than Season 2A and I thought nothing could top that foolishness.

[Misslindsey]

4 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

It depends on whether Jesse Quick survived the destruction of Earth-2 that we saw on Arrow.

Maybe God sent her a friend request which told her about the destruction of Earth-2 before it happened. 😉

[Starry]

13 hours ago, phoenics said:

This is worse than Season 2A and I thought nothing could top that foolishness.

I don't think this is worse than 2A but it's as bad as season 4 when Barry and Iris got no wedding reception and an interrupted off screen honeymoon. Despite clunky dialogue and the presence of a couple offensive tropes I still believe 2A was way worse. During 2A Iris got no romance at all, she investigated about Wally off screen, had no POV over Eddie/Barry, got one line in the crossover and was averaging five minutes of screen time per episode. She's getting way more this season. Even in 6x03, when the sidelining began, she still got nine minutes of airtime. I don't like that 6x05 and 6x06 will have little Iris but according to CP who I believe is trustworthy, things will change for 6x07, 6x08 and 6x09. In season 2 Iris only started getting more once Patty left.

Speaking of Patty, what they are doing now with Barry and Iris is what they should have done with Barry and Patty in season 2. Just give them a couple throwaway scenes and off screen dates. If she was supposed to be temporary we didn't need to see so much of their budding romance, just a couple scenes to indicate that they were dating.

Sadly they are doing in 6x05 what they have been doing since they put Barry and Iris together. It's not like we ever saw them be on a real date that didn't get interrupted after two seconds. Not even during season 3 when Iris could have died. It's disappointing but it's sadly more of the same.

I would have liked Iris to be in more than two episodes of the crossover but it seems CP is good with what she got. I can only hope that she got high quality screen time and that they didn't make the mistake of having Barry "die" without her there or reunite with her off screen. But I have no idea what Barry's plot is in the crossover. I am not even sure he's going to fake-die at all.

In short, if the last three episodes of 6A don't give us more of Iris' POV, more journalism and more high quality WestAllen scenes I'll be inclined to agree that 6A is just as bad as 2A but I am not there yet.

[Velocity23]

RIP Gypsy

Quote

TVLINE | What all are you revealing about the circumstances of Breacher’s visit?
Someone very close to Cisco has been murdered, and there are a lot of really tough emotions to contend with in this episode. Cisco’s in charge of figuring out what happened, and that mystery will lead him on an emotional roller coaster. Oh, yeah.

TVLINE | It’s a bit of a whodunnit, which is interesting and different for the show.
Exactly. We’re used to seeing Cisco’s “sunny countenance,” so to see him sort of battle different kinds of foes and get pulled in different directions is interesting.

https://tvline.com/2019/11/04/the-flash-preview-episode-6x05-carlos-valdes-cisco-murder-mystery/

[Trini]

Come onnnnnn -- it better not be. We literally just had an entire episode of manpain. There's no reason MURDER Cynthia to have Cisco 'learn a lesson about leadership'.

But I'm still looking forward to Cisco/Carlos getting stuff to do for a whole episode.

[Starry]

A murder doesn't sound right. I am sorry but I wish they had just blown up her Earth. At least her death would have had a bigger purpose and tie up to Crisis.

This show is doing a poor job at building up Crisis outside of reminding us every week that Barry is fated to die. Maybe they are going somewhere with the Nash character but his scenes have been throwaway so far.

[SimoneS]

Good grief. More tears... I swear, they are going to be crying every episode until this crossover is over. Oh Gypsy. I loved her. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by SimoneS

[Primal Slayer]

On 11/3/2019 at 10:42 AM, Velocity23 said:

Candice confirmed she is in 2 episodes of the crossover.

She also mentioned which episodes feauture more Iris

Why does she seem annoyed that her fans want to see more of her? What is there to be confused about?

[Trini]

5 hours ago, Starry said:

This show is doing a poor job at building up Crisis outside of reminding us every week that Barry is fated to die. Maybe they are going somewhere with the Nash character but his scenes have been throwaway so far.

I'm not pressed about the leadup to Crisis since I don't particularly care about that comic story. I think the show is focusing on the thing that will impact Flash the most.

But Wallace did say that this new Wells' story ties in to Crisis.

[Velocity23]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Why does she seem annoyed that her fans want to see more of her? What is there to be confused about?

While having a big role in Crossover might be nice it could also be that Candice has a big part in the post-crisis story on her own show. So she doesnt see it as this big deal. We seen from BTS material that there is some teaming up between Lois and Iris, so she might not be as disappointed as her fans seem to be. 

Additionally, its probably why it was possible to give Iris a heavier load for the crossover. I remember last year there was very little of the leads in the post crossover episodes. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Velocity23

[Trini]

Photos for 6.06, "License to Elongate", are out. Barry and Ralph is tuxes; Ultraviolet returns; a Nash/Allegra/Frost subplot? but no pics of Cecile's subplot or Rosso.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Trini
added link to photo gallery

[Starry]

Barry looks good. That's all I have to say about this episode.

I guess they are taking a break from Bloodwork?

[Velocity23]

9 hours ago, Velocity23 said:

Edited November 5, 2019 by Velocity23

[BeautifulFlower]

10 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Why does she seem annoyed that her fans want to see more of her? What is there to be confused about?

Someone on twitter made a good point in that it might not be a big deal to Candice like it is to her fans. 

Add in the fact, that she got asked this all the time on twitter every time she logs in. She probably got tired of being asked this question. To her, what does it matter how many episodes she's in?

[SevenStars]

5 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Someone on twitter made a good point in that it might not be a big deal to Candice like it is to her fans. 

Add in the fact, that she got asked this all the time on twitter every time she logs in. She probably got tired of being asked this question. To her, what does it matter how many episodes she's in?

I get it but she didn't have to answer that way. Clearly her fans wanted that info, if they kept asking her. If it was annoying her or she didn't care, she didn't have to answer. It feels like a slap down to some of her fans. 

But I appreciate that she gave out the episodes she would be feature in more. It kind of make up for her first response to me.  

[Trini]

This is very general:

Quote

Your fall preview for The Flash mentioned that Iris would “get pulled into a very deep mystery.” Any further information on what this mystery is, and when we will see it be discovered? –Mariam

I present you with the complete and unexpurgated soundbite from showrunner Eric Wallace, during his discussion of Iris’ need to shore up the Citizen staff: “As a result of the events of the first few episodes of this season, she gets involved in a very deep mystery that plays quite large into what’s happening this season, and our Big Bads and what not.”

https://tvline.com/2019/11/06/walking-dead-season-10-spoilers-negan-tested-by-alpha/

[Trini]

Barry may really be dead, 'cause it looks like Iris cashed in his life insurance, LOL! Or it's Pulizer money, because I think this may be CCC's new office. Or a redesign of the loft, but I think that's unlikely.:

[Trini]

They're on episode 6.11, I believe.

[Trini]

Also Candice's caption for the same photo on her instagram: "just a girl born in the wrong era"

-- Which seems to point to the comic story where Iris is from the future....

[Trini]

Tease from Sendhil; Ramsey's looking normal here - hmm.

[adora721]

Not sure if this is legit, but it's a synopsis of 6x7

[Trini]

Yeah, that's legit. 6.07 synopsis:

Quote

"The Last Temptation of Barry Allen, Pt. 1 -

PART ONE OF THE MID-SEASON FINALE - As Barry Allen (Grant Gustin) stands on the threshold of his impending death in Crisis, his convictions are tested when the monstrous Dr. Ramsey Rosso (guest star Sendhil Ramamurthy) infects The Flash with a mysterious, hallucinogenic contagion. Meanwhile, reporter Iris West-Allen (Candice Patton) uncovers a vast conspiracy.

Chad Lowe directed the episode written by Jonathan Butler & Gabriel Garza (#607). Original airdate 11/26/2019.

---

It sounds like not the usual person write this synopsis. (They don't usually use the full names of the regulars. And the "reporter" in front of Iris' name is also odd.)

Anyway sounds good; they're overdue for a Flash/Bloodwork confrontation.

[BeautifulFlower]

Teases from Guggie on Iris role in Crisis

[SimoneS]

Guggenheim probably gritted his teeth writing those scenes for Iris. I will be watching on YT.

[Velocity23]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Guggenheim probably gritted his teeth writing those scenes for Iris. I will be watching on YT.

He didnt wrote the whole crossover though. All writers from all shows were creating the content. He just oversaw it. 

Lauren Certo and Sterling Gates wrote The Flash episode of the crossover, with Eric Wallace conceiving the story.

The Arrow episode was co-written by Guggenheim and Marv Wolfman, who wrote the comic book.

The Legends of Tomorrow episode was written by Keto Shimizu and Ubah Mohamed.

I dont get where the idea comes from that Guggenheim is responsible why Iris wasnt involved in the past. Why would Guggenheim have an agenda against Iris when he never probably even written for Iris. 

[BeautifulFlower]

25 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

He didnt wrote the whole crossover though. All writers from all shows were creating the content. He just oversaw it. 

Lauren Certo and Sterling Gates wrote The Flash episode of the crossover, with Eric Wallace conceiving the story.

The Arrow episode was co-written by Guggenheim and Marv Wolfman, who wrote the comic book.

The Legends of Tomorrow episode was written by Keto Shimizu and Ubah Mohamed.

I dont get where the idea comes from that Guggenheim is responsible why Iris wasnt involved in the past. Why would Guggenheim have an agenda against Iris when he never probably even written for Iris. 

Because he still has complete control over the story. He just doesn't write the scripts for each show. However, he still has to approve the scripts.

He most likely decides who gets to crossover from other shows. For example, the season 3 crossover. I think someone said Marc deleted a scene from the script that involved Barry saying goodbye to Iris.

No matter what, he has a role in Iris not being involved in the crossovers. Not even Laurel got to crossover to other shows.

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Velocity23 said:

I dont get where the idea comes from that Guggenheim is responsible why Iris wasnt involved in the past. Why would Guggenheim have an agenda against Iris when he never probably even written for Iris. 

What @BeautifulFlower said. I will change my comment to: Guggenheim probably gritted his teeth allowing Iris to be included in the crossover. I will be watching on YT

Edited November 9, 2019 by SimoneS

[Velocity23]

6 minutes ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Because he still has complete control over the story. He just doesn't write the scripts for each show. However, he still has to approve the scripts.

He most likely decides who gets to crossover from other shows. For example, the season 3 crossover. I think someone said Marc deleted a scene from the script that involved Barry saying goodbye to Iris.

No matter what, he has a role in Iris not being involved in the crossovers. Not even Laurel got to crossover to other shows.

Look i am not a fan of Guggenheim but he doesnt have the solo power, people are claiming he has. I think you are giving him more control and power than he has. Guggenheim cannot exclude anybody from the crossover. All final decisions about the script are made by WB. My question would be if the scene was cut (meaning somehting they actually filmed) or not filmed at all? And if i remember correctly the cut scene was from a crossover where AJK had still the most involvment. And was in the hierachy above Guggenheim. 

From what i recally Flash showrunner asked in how many episodes of crossover Candices wants to be in? 

Yet somehow Laurel managed to be in several episodes of other Arrowverse shows.  I dont see the Flash doing that for Iris. Another show has never had the opportunity to write for Iris so i dont get how anyone can claim a writer hates her because a scene was cut? And if we take into consideration that Guggenheim hates Iris so much, he still going to give her an important journalist storyline, before even her show does? 

[Featherhat]

Guggenheim gets blamed for everything and accused of hating everything (including by me sometimes) by Olicity and Felicity fans, Laurel(s) and Lauriver fans, comic purists and now Iris and WestAllen fans. 

He's showrunning the crossover but certainly not alone and Berlanti, CW and WB/DC are all heavily involved. He initially got blamed for the double wedding fiasco but that was Berlanti's bright idea. If anyone had wanted Iris more involved in the crossovers than she generally has been he doesn't have the authority to say no and there's absolutely no indication how he feels about her one way or the other except that he tweeted a some very promising stuff for her and WA. And as @Velocity23 has said, Laurel has crossed over onto both Flash and LOT a few times. So many great and popular characters get missed out of much in the crossovers including many characters MG helped create or are otherwise from his shows and that goes double if you don't have a mask. 

On 11/7/2019 at 1:26 AM, Trini said:

Also Candice's caption for the same photo on her instagram: "just a girl born in the wrong era"

-- Which seems to point to the comic story where Iris is from the future....

It could be but I have no idea how that's going to work unless there is so major post COIE stuff happening because the Wests, including Francine seem to go back a long way in the 20th/21st centuries.

Unless CP is just feeling very glam and from a bygone era with that look and nothing more.  

Edited November 9, 2019 by Featherhat

[Trini]

On 11/6/2019 at 7:59 PM, Trini said:

Barry may really be dead, 'cause it looks like Iris cashed in his life insurance, LOL! Or it's Pulizer money, because I think this may be CCC's new office. Or a redesign of the loft, but I think that's unlikely.:

Nevermind; this is the WestAllen loft. I think the lighting makes it look different - or did they repaint it a lighter color?

[Trini]

I have no idea if Guggenheim "hates" Iris but he has ignored her - at best.

Anyway, about Paragons, I'll let ComicBook.com explain since there's only so much I'm going to 'study' for this crossover:

Quote

On Friday, Guggenheim did a kind of impromptu Twitter Q&A answering some fan questions about "Crisis on Infinite Earths". <...> According to Guggenheim, Iris recruits the seventh Paragon.

In the opening scene of Arrow's Season 8 finale, the idea of "paragons" was introduced into the Arrowverse. In that scene, The Monitor (LaMonica Garrett) has the opening voiceover and in it explains that the idea that human beings are created equally is a fallacy. He goes on to explain that some rise above and are heroes, but even among heroes there are those who go even higher with the highest echelon of heroes being known as Paragons -- and they are the only hope of all creation.

It's not exactly clear who these Paragons are, though given a few of the other things The Monitor has said, it's probably safe to assume that Oliver Queen/Green Arrow (Stephen Amell) and Barry Allen/The Flash (Grant Gustin) are among them. <...> Thanks to Guggenheim, we know there are at least seven and it's likely that some of them come from the impressive and exciting list of guest appearances in "Crisis".

Over recent weeks and months, there have been multiple exciting announcements about various guest appearances for "Crisis"<...> It's possible that any or all of those characters could end up being Paragons ....

[Velocity23]

It will be funny if they try to portray Barry as a paragon. When he barely at a hero level. Going beyond the usual heroics and actually being willing to sacrifice for the greater good. Maybe they might do something in this crossover to change it. 

[Velocity23]

The word paragon was said in context to Oliver, at least on Arrow. IMO Barry at this moment has not earned that title. Maybe it comes with Crisis. But his actions and involvment in changing timelines speaks of too much selfishness. 

[Starry]

Whether he is the one Iris recruits or not, I have no doubt Barry is a Paragon.

Apparently Iris has scenes with both versions of Lois.

[scarynikki12]

Quick reminder of the rules for crossover related posting:

Post here & there:  What a Flash character might or will do on the crossover episodes. 
Post only there: What a character from another show, might do or will do in the crossover episodes. 
Post only here:  Talk about a Flash character, who might appear on the crossover episodes, but the talk is about what they're doing on Flash. 
Neither here nor there: Talking about things characters are doing that aren't happening in the crossover episodes or on Flash.

[Trini]

Photos for 6.07, "The Last Temptation of Barry Allen, Part 1", are out. Another set without Iris - not good. Besides the fact that she has the B-plot, I don't see how she wouldn't be in Barry's dreamscape.

They show Nora Allen, I want Henry too, but I'm guessing Shipp isn't in this one if he's not in the photos.

[Starry]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Besides the fact that she has the B-plot, I don't see how she wouldn't be in Barry's dreamscape.

Isn't the episode about Barry being tempted to fight for his life? In this context hallucinating Iris would make way more sense than hallucinating his dead mother.

[SevenStars]

2 hours ago, Starry said:

Isn't the episode about Barry being tempted to fight for his life? In this context hallucinating Iris would make way more sense than hallucinating his dead mother.

Hallucinating both and Nora would make sense. He witness his mother not given a chance to fight for her life. That means if he has that chance, he should fight.  

His past (Nora's death), present(life with Iris), and future( Nora, his future daughter) should make him want to fight. 

But base on past episodes this season, I'm not holding my breath that the writers care about what make sense. Ex: not bringing out Caitlin to work on a cure for Ramsey, instead using Cisco.  

[RedVitC]

Since the hallucinations are because of something Ramsey does, and looking at the pictures and the way the episode description is worded ('his convictions are tested') I don't think they're going for a Barry realizes there's a chance and he starts fighting again storyline, but rather Ramsey makes a last attempt to have Barry be more like Ramsey and save himself regardless of the cost to other people and this is the last big test for Barry before heading into crisis.

I don't think Iris not being in the pictures necessarily means she won't be involved in the Barry and Ramsey storyline either as herself or a hallucination. I want to think that she will. Candice seems to have filmed quite a bit for this episode, but that could be for the investigation part/B plot.

[Trini]

Well, Candice is putting out pics, if the PR office won't: another 6B outfit, and Iris speaks Italian?

[Trini]

I don't know if the above means that Iris is in Italy, but I've been thinking that it would be a nice change of pace if they let the characters go outside of Central City more often. (And going to another Earth's Central City doesn't count!)

[Trini]

BTS pic from Danielle:

[Trini]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:07 PM, RedVitC said:

I don't think Iris not being in the pictures necessarily means she won't be involved in the Barry and Ramsey storyline either as herself or a hallucination. I want to think that she will. Candice seems to have filmed quite a bit for this episode, but that could be for the investigation part/B plot.

She's in the story, I'm not so much worried about that; I am worried about Iris/Candice being omitted from the promotional materials four episodes in a row.

[Trini]

6.08, pre-Crisis mid-season finale synopsis:

Quote

"The Last Temptation of Barry Allen, Pt. 2" - (8:00-9:00 p.m. ET) (TV-PG, LV) (HDTV)

THE EPIC CONCLUSION OF THE TWO-PART MID-SEASON FINALE - With The Flash (Grant Gustin) freshly infected by the monstrous Bloodwork (guest star Sendhil Ramamurthy), Iris (Candice Patton) and Cisco (Carlos Valdes) battle to help Barry take control of himself before he's lost forever to Ramsey's influence. Meanwhile, the rest of Team Flash fight to reclaim control of Central City from Bloodwork's growing army.

Michael Nankin directed the episode written by Kristen Kim & Joshua V. Gilbert (#608). Original airdate 12/3/2019.

Seriously, Kim and Gilbert for the episode leading into Crisis? But yay for Irisco!

[Velocity23]

Sue Dearbon has been cast

[Featherhat]

Interesting, I've seen her in a few things, can't really say much. I imagine it's a recurring for the back half of this season with heavy potential for series regular next season. 

The only thing is whether they'll rush this because it's comics destiny and Ralph's a supporting character ala Kamilla and Cisco or use it to drag out a bigger romance storyline. 

[Trini]

Was hoping for someone a little more well-known, but that's not a dealbreaker or anything. I hope she's good opposite Hartley.

From the article:

Quote

Described as possessing a fierce intelligence and a spitfire personality, Sue Dearbon is the daughter to one of Central City’s most wealthy families. But there’s much more to Sue than just the socialite reputation that always precedes her, which master detective Ralph will discover when they finally meet later during Season 6.

I think we've only seen Central City's wealthy elite only a few times in 6 seasons, so this is one way of fleshing out the character of Central City.
 

13 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Interesting, I've seen her in a few things, can't really say much. I imagine it's a recurring for the back half of this season with heavy potential for series regular next season. 

The only thing is whether they'll rush this because it's comics destiny and Ralph's a supporting character ala Kamilla and Cisco or use it to drag out a bigger romance storyline. 

Pretty sure their romance is going to be a bigger thing, since she's a comic character, and from the way Wallace and Hartley have talked about her.