Spoilers and Spoiler Discussion

[Trini]

52 minutes ago, phoenics said:

All I know is that if the thought of losing Barry doesn't spur some lovemaking from Barry&Iris then I will riot.  Kids or no kids - at least hint that.  Insane for a married couple to be facing that kind of potential loss and we not see that lead to SOMETHING.

I mean, seriously. I know they are not going to show anything onscreen, but my idea is that they at least have the conversation about trying to get pregnant* before he vanishes. Because we already know Barry wants a family; and he's the last Allen left.

*(Not that they need that as a reason to have sex, but I'm trying to 'tone it down' for these particular writers)

[BeautifulFlower]

11 hours ago, Trini said:

I mean, seriously. I know they are not going to show anything onscreen, but my idea is that they at least have the conversation about trying to get pregnant* before he vanishes. Because we already know Barry wants a family; and he's the last Allen left.

*(Not that they need that as a reason to have sex, but I'm trying to 'tone it down' for these particular writers)

That reminds me of what Zack stenz said on twitter. In 5x16, he wrote a scene were Barry and Iris mentioned they were in the process of trying to conceive Nora. He said that's why they didn't want to know her birthday. IT was obviously going to play as a comedic moment in the episode, but they deleted it from the script. It's one thing to not show them being intimate that way, but now they can't even have a small mention of WA have sex?

[Starry]

On 9/6/2019 at 4:32 AM, phoenics said:

All I know is that if the thought of losing Barry doesn't spur some lovemaking from Barry&Iris then I will riot.  Kids or no kids - at least hint that.  Insane for a married couple to be facing that kind of potential loss and we not see that lead to SOMETHING.

18 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

 It's one thing to not show them being intimate that way, but now they can't even have a small mention of WA have sex?

Replying in the Relationships thread.

[Trini]

Some recent BTS stuff:

Cecile's office?? Or is it Iris', because why would Cecile have an entire set?? Also a new cast member/guest star?

This is a photo from last season, though:

Filming in a theater, and they also have pics of Grant going to set in formal wear:

Edited September 8, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

If this new Wells is really going to play a big(-ish?) part in the COIE crossover, I wonder if he will still be sticking around after the Crisis conclusion. Could he leave (die?) in the crossover, and we could have a mostly Wells-free back half?

I know I might be setting myself up for disappointment, but if this character is here to set up COIE, then there shouldn't be much use for him after.

[shantown]

20 hours ago, Trini said:

I know I might be setting myself up for disappointment, but if this character is here to set up COIE, then there shouldn't be much use for him after.

Hope springs eternal 🤞

[Trini]

7 hours ago, shantown said:

Hope springs eternal 🤞

Hey, every other show has cast departures, and with a Crisis coming, this could be the year!

Edited September 10, 2019 by Trini

[BeautifulFlower]

5 minutes ago, Trini said:

Hey, every other show has cast departures, and with a Crisis coming, this could be be the year!

I want to have this kind of hope but this show has made clear that no exits unless someone wants out.

[adora721]

Candice tweeted about really digging episode 607; no mentin of 606... hmm....

[Trini]

From EW's Fall Preview:

Quote

The Flash (Season 6)

Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton) aren’t the only members of Team Flash in mourning when season 6 begins, as Caitlin (Danielle Panabaker) and her icy personality Killer Frost are grieving the loss of their father, bringing a fresh take on both characters. 

Oct. 8, 8 p.m., The CW

-----

I'll never get why they're so committed to this character/s.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Trini

[Primal Slayer]

I think because they really want that action female and generally enjoy Danielle. It still makes me sad how they did majority of the KF storyline. I really wish they'd rip off Angel and what they did with Fred/Illryia.

[SevenStars]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think because they really want that action female and generally enjoy Danielle. It still makes me sad how they did majority of the KF storyline. I really wish they'd rip off Angel and what they did with Fred/Illryia.

On screen, they write Iris as an action female, more than KF/Caitlin. They keep having KF show-up in fighting situations but being put down quickly and easily.  I'm indifferent to KF/Caitlin but I find it really frustrating that they keep doing that to the character because it is so stupid and I dislike stupidity. 

As for liking Danielle, I don't know, so I have no comment on that. 

[BeautifulFlower]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

From EW's Fall Preview:

-----

I'll never get why they're so committed to this character/s.

Nobody wants to see them grieve. It will forced to me. Caitlin spent majority of her life thinking he was dead. She didn't really have him back in her life until like 2 min before he died.  She cried a little and then went for drinks with her mom. She mentioned him once in the following episode. 

And why is Killer Frost grieving? I didn't get in 5x20 and I still don't get it. In our view, Killer Frost didn't really have a relationship with Thomas. So why would she be sad over him dying?

This is the "forced" I'm talking about. Neither of their "griefs" will be believable because we barely got Thomas. We only met the man in 1 episode. We barely got their relationship with him. How do they expect the audience to care with this type of writing?

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, SevenStars said:

On screen, they write Iris as an action female, more than KF/Caitlin. They keep having KF show-up in fighting situations but being put down quickly and easily.  I'm indifferent to KF/Caitlin but I find it really frustrating that they keep doing that to the character because it is so stupid and I dislike stupidity. 

As for liking Danielle, I don't know, so I have no comment on that. 

Iris may shoot a gun every once in a while but KF gets way more action than Iris. She gets in a lot of fights but of course since she is a CGI budgetary nightmare they can only do so much.

[BeautifulFlower]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think because they really want that action female and generally enjoy Danielle. It still makes me sad how they did majority of the KF storyline. I really wish they'd rip off Angel and what they did with Fred/Illryia.

They barely write her as that. Season 3 Killer Frost maybe fit action female, but not S4-current. Starting in s4, they butchered her character. Anytime she showed up, she was immediately knocked out. Don't get me started on s5. They tried to hype her up as the key to defeating Cicada, but nothing came of it. 

[SevenStars]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

Iris may shoot a gun every once in a while but KF gets way more action than Iris. She gets in a lot of fights but of course since she is a CGI budgetary nightmare they can only do so much.

Iris does more than shoot a gun, which would still be in the action category. But anyway, maybe it is because the writers seems to take more care in Iris' fight sequences ( maybe because Iris is human, and they want to make it look as believable as possible) than KF and most of the time they make sure we see that the fights are not easy for Iris to win, but she manages to win, one wau or another. While at the same time, KF fights are mostly a sequence of her coming in, throwing a few icicles and then the bad guy throw something that send her flat on her back and that is the end of the fight. That's why to me, it seems like the writers write Iris more as the action female than KF. KF seems to be more of comic plot-point when it comes to her fight scenes. 

[SevenStars]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Nobody wants to see them grieve. It will forced to me. Caitlin spent majority of her life thinking he was dead. She didn't really have him back in her life until like 2 min before he died.  She cried a little and then went for drinks with her mom. She mentioned him once in the following episode. 

And why is Killer Frost grieving? I didn't get in 5x20 and I still don't get it. In our view, Killer Frost didn't really have a relationship with Thomas. So why would she be sad over him dying?

This is the "forced" I'm talking about. Neither of their "griefs" will be believable because we barely got Thomas. We only met the man in 1 episode. We barely got their relationship with him. How do they expect the audience to care with this type of writing?

I think they are hopping we will forget/ignore all of this and just think about the fact that a child lost her parent. Honestly, because I'm indifferent towards KF/Caitlin and have come to expect/accept this crapping writing for her and other characters, I'm going to go along with their gaslighting writing. 

[BaggythePanther]

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

I think because they really want that action female and generally enjoy Danielle. It still makes me sad how they did majority of the KF storyline. I really wish they'd rip off Angel and what they did with Fred/Illryia.

That storyline depressed me so much but now that you mention it, that would have been a much better plot for Killer Frost. The writers just aren’t brave enough to go all out.

[Trini]

I've been over Caitlin/Frost for a while now, and skipped her subplots last season. But that latest info from EW makes me think that the show might try to make direct comparisons between Caitlin's and the West-Allens' grief -- ugh, kill me now.

---

About the teaser promo,

These are probably scenes from the first 2 or 3 episodes.

I didn't notice that the thing on Barry's head was Jay Garrick's helmet at first. So if Barry is maybe making a trip to Earth-3, that's probably not Nora Allen, but Joan Garrick?

[BeautifulFlower]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

I've been over Caitlin/Frost for a while now, and skipped her subplots last season. But that latest info from EW makes me think that the show might try to make direct comparisons between Caitlin's and the West-Allens' grief -- ugh, kill me now.

---

About the teaser promo,

These are probably scenes from the first 2 or 3 episodes.

I didn't notice that the thing on Barry's head was Jay Garrick's helmet at first. So if Barry is maybe making a trip to Earth-3, that's probably not Nora Allen, but Joan Garrick?

It didn't work in 5x19 and it won't work now. As I said above, it'll be forced. We cannot buy Caitlin's grief over her father when we barely got her relationship with him. Honestly, she shouldn't grieve that much as she had years of getting over his "death".  Considering her writing in general, why do these writers continue to try to give her a story? The outcome always seems like they don't really CARE to write for Caitlin.

If that is Jay's helmet and he is going to Earth 3, then that could be Joan. The teaser really got me excited for this season.

[adora721]

6 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

As I said above, it'll be forced. We cannot buy Caitlin's grief over her father when we barely got her relationship with him. Honestly, she shouldn't grieve that much as she had years of getting over his "death". 

I agree, especially since Cait mentioned losing her dad as a child in S2 and had no insight or words of comfort for Iris when Iris found out about her "dead" mom being alive and then losing Francine in the same season.  

The only things KF should be grieving about is taking HR to be murdered in S3, working in human trafficking and torturing people in S4, and the suffering she caused to Iris, Cisco, Barry, Tracy Brand, and Cecile in S3.  In fact, Cait should be grieving these things, too. But she/they are both sociopaths who don't feel guilt about anything evil she/they have done. But we're supposed to believe they're "grieving" their three-episode father? Sure..

[SimoneS]

I dread all this grieving. I want to forget that horrific version of Nora existed, not hear Barry and Iris wax poetic tearfully about her. Enduring Caitlin/KF's grief over her two minute father will be even worse. 

Nora in the promo is probably Jay's wife or something from Earth 3. Barry crying so early in the season. *snort* I hope that the show has a more fun lighthearted tone after COIE.

[rogvortex58]

I wonder if Bloodwork recently lost his daughter, and that’s what Grant means about Barry being able to relate to the new big bad, because “he’s going through the same thing”.

It could also explain his obsession with wanting to end death. And if Barry is seeing visions of people dying in the crisis he might feel that there’s nothing he can do to stop it.

Edited September 15, 2019 by rogvortex58

[Trini]

5 hours ago, rogvortex58 said:

I wonder if Bloodwork recently lost his daughter, and that’s what Grant means about Barry being able to relate to the new big bad, because “he’s going through the same thing”.

It could also explain his obsession with wanting to end death. And if Barry is seeing visions of people dying in the crisis he might feel that there’s nothing he can do to stop it.

I think that Bloodwork/Rosso definitely had someone close to him die, but a daughter might be a too on-the-nose parallel to Barry -- plus they did villain with a daughter last season to parallel. Then again, these writers are never subtle.... I'm thinking it was his wife who died.

But speaking of Bloodwork, I'm really surprised there hasn't been more press about him or other villains so far. Not even any interviews with Sendhil R.

[SimoneS]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

But speaking of Bloodwork, I'm really surprised there hasn't been more press about him or other villains so far. Not even any interviews with Sendhil R.

I think that it is odd. Sendhil Ramamurthy is pretty high profile for the CW. You would think that the network would have him doing press all over. Maybe it doesn't want to pay him.

[rogvortex58]

Maybe they can only afford him for the first half. Which is why this season has two separate “graphic novels” with the crisis in the middle.

Edited September 15, 2019 by rogvortex58

[DearEvette]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I think that it is odd. Sendhil Ramamurthy is pretty high profile for the CW. You would think that the network would have him doing press all over. Maybe it doesn't want to pay him.

I remember seeing quite a bit of press when he was first announced.  But that has since died down.  It seems everyone is hyper focused on this being Arrows' last season more than anything.  RE: The Flash, I think most the the news I have seen seems to be less on what is happening in front but more on what is gong on behind with the new showrunner and what the change will mean to the show.

1 hour ago, rogvortex58 said:

Maybe they can only afford him for the first half. Which is why this season has two separate “graphic novels” with the crisis in the middle.

I am hoping that this just means the show has finally realized they can't sustain the pacing needed to done one throughline for 20+ episodes.  They haven't been able to do that successfully since season one.  They have to pad it out too much or you just get storyline fatigue.

[rogvortex58]

Plenty of other shows have done the same. Have two separate arcs in one season.

I kinda prefer it that way. At least where the Flash is concerned.

[Trini]

More stills from the Season 6 premiere have been released; I'm not liking that all the photos are in STAR Labs. One photo is The Monitor.

Still none of any villains....

ETA: Now the hi-res photos are up at FlashTVNews: http://flashtvnews.com/the-flash-more-season-premiere-photos-into-the-void/32758

Edited September 16, 2019 by Trini

[Trini]

On 9/15/2019 at 1:42 PM, SimoneS said:

I think that it is odd. Sendhil Ramamurthy is pretty high profile for the CW. You would think that the network would have him doing press all over. Maybe it doesn't want to pay him.

It doesn't even have to be 'all over', just anything? Becuase so far it's been nothing; which is weird since they made the effort to include him in the Comic Con trailer.

---

Anyway,

It took six years to get here, but I'm glad there's finally a cowl that matches the rest of the Flash costume. (And again, I can't believe they let him wear that other thing for a whole season.) Some of the tweaks make a world of difference. I doubt it, but I wonder if they'll mention the suit update in the narrative?

[rogvortex58]

Question: Anything about The Flash‘s Caitlin Snow and Killer Frost? —Clarice
Ausiello: “Killer Frost is going to explore her humanity in ways we haven’t seen before — and sometimes that means her being on the team more than Caitlin,” showrunner Eric Wallace tells Matt Mitovich. “That doesn’t mean Caitlin is gone — obviously she is integral to the story, because she has the connection to our Big Bad, Bloodwork (aka Dr. Ramsey Russo). But some of the fun, some of the sadness, and some of the mysteries from Killer Frost’s past that we haven’t really been able to deal with, now we can.” (Speaking of Dr. Russo, played by Sendhil Ramamurthy, Wallace says it’s “a definite possibility” that Killer Frost will have her own take on Caitlin’s handsome colleague!)

https://tvline.com/2019/09/18/downton-abbey-movie-spoilers-lady-mary-scene/

[adora721]

8 hours ago, rogvortex58 said:

Question: Anything about The Flash‘s Caitlin Snow and Killer Frost? —Clarice
Ausiello: “Killer Frost is going to explore her humanity in ways we haven’t seen before — and sometimes that means her being on the team more than Caitlin,” showrunner Eric Wallace tells Matt Mitovich. “That doesn’t mean Caitlin is gone — obviously she is integral to the story, because she has the connection to our Big Bad, Bloodwork (aka Dr. Ramsey Russo). But some of the fun, some of the sadness, and some of the mysteries from Killer Frost’s past that we haven’t really been able to deal with, now we can.” (Speaking of Dr. Russo, played by Sendhil Ramamurthy, Wallace says it’s “a definite possibility” that Killer Frost will have her own take on Caitlin’s handsome colleague!)

https://tvline.com/2019/09/18/downton-abbey-movie-spoilers-lady-mary-scene/

Glad to hear some of this, except it seems like Cait's getting off scott free for what she, not KF, did in S3 and in S4. All the blame is going to KF. It's not just KF who did evil things. I guess I'll have to accept what crumbs of redemption they give, but again with the snowflake treatment for Teflon Cait.

[rogvortex58]

Some might read this as love interest. But considering the age gap I think Rosso was more of a mentor to Caitlin. Given their history, she’d never suspect he was up to something. But Frost might.

[Starry]

Did they say how old the character is supposed to be? Because Sendhil could easily pass for someone in his mid-thirties. The age difference shouldn't be a problem.

I am not sure he's Caitlin's love interest. I guess it can be possible but I don't know if I want a repeat of the Caitlin/Zoom storyline with her being fooled by the villain.

[Trini]

From Candice:

With the horror vibe this season, and the villain being Bloodwork, I'm guessing she shot something bloody? Well, at least I've been warned. (They're filming 6.07, I believe.)

[rogvortex58]

Getting closer to crisis.

I can already sense the foreboding.

[Trini]

Season 6 premiere synopsis:

Quote

"Into the Void" 

SEASON PREMIERE - While Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris (Candice Patton) deal with the heartbreaking loss of their daughter, Nora, the team faces their greatest threat yet - one that threatens to destroy all of Central City. Meanwhile, Killer Frost (Danielle Panabaker) has a brush with death that results in an unexpected new dynamic that will change her relationship with Caitlin forever.

Gregory Smith directed the episode written by Eric Wallace & Kelly Wheeler.
Original airdate 10/8/2019.

-----

*sigh*

I just wish that they'd put some (or all) of this energy for character development and backstory for Killer Frost into characters and actors that deserve it and have been here since day one.  *COUGH*cisco*COUGH*

[Trini]

Quote

... the team faces their greatest threat yet - one that threatens to destroy all of Central City....

Still being super vague about the premiere villain/threat. Odd, since it will probably just be a one-episode subplot because we know Crisis and Bloodwork are the bigger stories.

Is this referring to Godspeed, though? We also know he shows up.

Also, way to exaggerate, synopsis writer -- they're NOT going facing their "greatest" threat in the premiere; especially in this Crisis season.

[BeautifulFlower]

2 hours ago, Trini said:

Season 6 premiere synopsis:

-----

*sigh*

I just wish that they'd put some (or all) of this energy for character development and backstory for Killer Frost into characters and actors that deserve it and have been here since day one.  *COUGH*cisco*COUGH*

Same. I still stand by my conspiracy theory that they put in Danielle's contract that they MUST write for her. Otherwise, she'll be treated like Cisco. Seriously, I hope Cisco get some development this season. I don't want just 1 centric episode.

[adora721]

11 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

Same. I still stand by my conspiracy theory that they put in Danielle's contract that they MUST write for her. Otherwise, she'll be treated like Cisco. Seriously, I hope Cisco get some development this season. I don't want just 1 centric episode.

I also believe it's in DP's contract to always crossover no matter how little she gets to do, how irrelevant she is to the plot, or inappropriate her inclusion. That's why KF was in the same episodes as Lois Lane, but Iris West was missing from those episodes in the recent crossover. No one can convince me that AJK and his wife didn't give DP a sweet deal.

Edited September 20, 2019 by adora721

[Trini]

A little BTS video from Hartley; writer Thomas Pound was on set:

[rogvortex58]

Since Iris is writing the Crisis article about Barry disappearing I like to think she’ll have a significant role in the crossover this year.

Maybe she and Smallville’s Lois will even get a scene together. Fingers crossed.

[BaggythePanther]

This is from the crossover thread, but it looks like Wally will be coming back this season. I’m glad he’s coming back in a regular episode. Everyone and their brother will be in the crossover. I want to see Wally interacting with just the Flash cast.

10 HOURS AGO, TV ECHO SAID:

Keiynan Lonsdale (Wally West/Kid Flash on Flash and LoT) is at Oz Comic Con Brisbane this weekend - here's video of his Saturday panel (Brisbane, AU, is 14 hours ahead of US East Coast)...

-- KL: "Kid Flash is not going to be on the [COIE] crossover, but Kid Flash is returning."

 

[Trini]

3 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

This is from the crossover thread, but it looks like Wally will be coming back this season. I’m glad he’s coming back in a regular episode. Everyone and their brother will be in the crossover. I want to see Wally interacting with just the Flash cast.

I wanted him in the crossover too, though; but I'm glad he said he'll be back. I wasn't counting on him coming back, despite what Wallace had said at Comic Con.

Maybe they'll even let him dye his hair red this time!

Edited September 22, 2019 by Trini

[BaggythePanther]

27 minutes ago, Trini said:

I wanted him the crossover too, though; but I'm glad he said he'll be back. I wasn't counting on him coming back, despite what Wallace had said at Comic Con.

Maybe they'll even let him dye his hair red this time!

I can understand wanting to see him in COIE, but the last two crossovers Wally was in, he popped up for 30 seconds, did something cool, then disappeared. There’s going to be so much going on this year he’d have even less to do. The only problem is that plot wise, they’re going to need an excuse as to why Wally isn’t helping out during this world ending event. 

I’d love to see KL with the red hair.  

[SimoneS]

I am glad that hear that Wally is really returning and not in the crossover since I never watch it. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I’d love to see KL with the red hair.  

Agreed. Wally was already a kind of "free" spirit so him dying his hair would be in character. 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Primal Slayer

[Trini]

https://www.tvinsider.com/gallery/returning-tv-shows-fall-2019-network-preview/#7

Quote

This winter's looming Arrowverse crossover, kicking off December 8, will have "a huge influence on" the first half of Flash's Season 6, says exec producer Eric Wallace, hinting that speedster Barry Allen (Grant Gustin) will "confront some very deep personal issues that he hasn't had to before." Among them: grief over the evaporation of daughter Nora (Jessica Parker Kennedy).

Ooooh; Barry dealing with his emotional trauma was one of the good things in the first two seasons. But this is also good because they should have done some of this last season.

Grant is good at this stuff, thank goodness; but I hope Barry isn't crying every episode. We need some more good memories before his Crisis disappearance.

[Trini]

SpoilerTV has the episodes has the episodes titles for the first 7 episodes (they're usually pretty accurate):

6.01 - Into The Void
6.02 - A Flash of The Lightning
6.03 - Dead Man Running
6.04 - There Will Be Blood
6.05 - Kiss Kiss Breach Breach
6.06 - License To Elongate
6.07 - The Last Temptation of Barry Allen, PT. 1

They might be following the Supergirl writers room in naming episodes after movies?

6.04 should be the Halloween episode, so that title fits.

So while 6.05 is Cisco-centric, 6.06 is a Ralph episode. Maybe Ralph goes undercover in that one; it references a Bond film.

I assume 6.08 will be TLToBA, Part 2. A Barry-focused 2-parter that leads into the crossover is already a change in the usual structure of the front half. But then we're probably not getting a holiday episode this year. If the show is referencing this movie, then it sounds like Barry may face the choice to avoid his Crisis fate and live, or sacrifice to save the world. Maybe this is the episode that the Monitor or Anti-Monitor visits? LaMonica Garrett is supposed to make appearances in the other shows outside of the crossover episodes this season.

[BaggythePanther]

Is the crossover episode 9 again this season? I thought it only shifted to episode 9 last year so The Flash could do its 100th episode.