S29.E10: This Is Where We Build Trust

[RedheadZombie]

Actually, if Reed and Alec really had intended to go along with the plan, then goading Keith or Wes into playing the idol would have been the best outcome: it flushes the idol out, and with 4 votes apiece for Keith and 3 for Wes, one of them would have gone home no matter who played it.  It would have been worse if Wes had decided to keep the idol and not play it, because he'd still have it after Keith was voted out.

 

But that doesn't even make sense to me.  Reed wanted Keith and Wes to trust him so they could vote with him on Jon.  Reed deliberately provoked Keith and Wes so they would distrust him and play their idol, yet still vote with Reed.  That makes absolutely no sense, and that's why Reed's plan failed.  Sure two idols have been flushed, but now no one trusts Reed.  I don't see how this advantages Reed - at all.

[fishcakes]

fishcakes . . . better halfwits than the quarterwits of Nicaragua. Remember Fabio and the others? Not good times.

 

Ooh, yes. The original Nicaragua is still probably the worst season ever, but overall I thought their unpleasant personalities overshadowed their general stupidity.

 

I went back and watched and they actually show the kids eating popcorn and ice cream in the background.

 

That's good to know. I guess the scene where Jon gave the kid one spoonful of ice cream was supposed to be heartwarming, but it mostly made me mad. I still think he should have handed the whole thing over to the kid, but knowing that the little boy had probably already had some makes it a little less irksome.

[truthaboutluv]

Reed deliberately provoked Keith and Wes so they would distrust him and play their idol, yet still vote with Reed.

 

 

I don't think Reed was trying to goad Keith and Wes into not trusting him and playing the idol. I only think he was trying to make Jon and company that much more comfortable so they would not suspect the blindside that was coming. Again, it's not like Reed mentioning the possibility of Keith and Wes having the idol should have been this big news to Keith because Keith KNEW people likely knew he had it when he realized someone (which funny enough was Reed but he didn't know that) had gone through his bag in last week's episode. And how Reed explained the plan to Keith made it clear that it hinged on convincing Jon and company that Reed and Alec would vote with them to force Keith to play the idol, which is what he was further cementing with his comment.

 

Keith has no reason to not trust Reed because he did exactly what he said he was going to do - convince Jon and company he was with them and have them split the vote and he, along with Alec, Keith and Wes voted for Jon. The plan backfired because of Keith's big mouth which then spooked Natalie and company and made her convince Jon to play the idol. And Wes pretty much confirms Keith's stupid goof in his Ponderosa video by saying that once Keith mentioned sticking to the plan chaos started at tribal council and how he had spoken to his dad before tribal and told him to just stay quiet no matter what and don't freak out. But sure enough, that's what the idiot did. 

Edited November 27, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[cooksdelight]

I'm hoping the shot of Jon and Jacklyn leaning against each other, asleep, while Natalie and Reed were hanging on for dear life is some sort of foreshadowing to their demise. I can't stand it when people think they've got it in the bag and come off as too entitled to the win.

[Maverick]

 Nah, Jaclyn was probably tired after that big meal.   Two and a half cookies will make anyone sleepy.

[ferretrick]

That sloth almost looked like a woman crawling through the jungle.

I thought it looked like a walker from Walking Dead!!!

Reed and Keith = Boston Rob and Philip. Master strategist almost undone by idiot alliance mate who can't shut up.

[truthaboutluv]

Reed and Keith = Boston Rob and Philip. Master strategist almost undone by idiot alliance mate who can't shut up.

 

 

Ah but see that's where Rob was brilliant because he was actually able to contain Philip's crazy quite well and drag him all the way to the end as his perfect goat. I think the better analogy would be Christina and Philip where Philip totally blew their plan with his crazy and big mouth. Not that the plan was going to work anyway but still. Thing is it wasn't from lack of effort from Reed because it was clear he knew that Keith was someone where everything had to be spelled out and he had to be very explicit with him but still, Keith fucked things up. 

[candall]

I don't think Reed was trying to goad Keith and Wes into not trusting him and playing the idol. I only think he was trying to make Jon and company that much more comfortable so they would not suspect the blindside that was coming. Again, it's not like Reed mentioning the possibility of Keith and Wes having the idol should have been this big news to Keith because Keith KNEW people likely knew he had it when he realized someone (which funny enough was Reed but he didn't know that) had gone through his bag in last week's episode. And how Reed explained the plan to Keith made it clear that it hinged on convincing Jon and company that Reed and Alec would vote with them to force Keith to play the idol, which is what he was further cementing with his comment.

 

Keith has no reason to not trust Reed because he did exactly what he said he was going to do - convince Jon and company he was with them and have them split the vote and he, along with Alec, Keith and Wes voted for Jon. The plan backfired because of Keith's big mouth which then spooked Natalie and company and made her convince Jon to play the idol. And Wes pretty much confirms Keith's stupid goof in his Ponderosa video by saying that once Keith mentioned sticking to the plan chaos started at tribal council and how he had spoken to his dad before tribal and told him to just stay quiet no matter what and don't freak out. But sure enough, that's what the idiot did. 

Right!  That's exactly what I said, too--Reed's comment fit into the context of "the plan."  I only wondered why Reed didn't speak slowly and use one-syllable words preparing Keith the way he did with Alec--but now you've answered that for me:  Wes did the pre-TC prep work on Keith.

 

(I get it, Wes.  My dad never listened to me, either.  It's frustrating.)

 

I'm pretty sure that even watching the broadcast, Keith still won't comprehend what a doof he was.

[Yogi Nomad]

My girlfriend thought there was a Japanese ghost on survivor and it turned out to be just a sloth. Oh well. Sloth for the win!

I'm really surprised how much I like Natalie and how entertaining this episode was. The tribal was crazy! Keith was just being Keith and the look on Reed's face was priceless. This what happened when you ally yourself with dummies!

I don't know how tight Natalie is with the remaining player. She doesn't seem to be close with anyone else but they didn't seem to hate her or anything so we'll see how it goes from here. I just think that Female alliance rarely make it to the end. I fear Missy will try to get Natalie out next if she knows Natalie has an idol.

I want a showdown between Reed and Natalie. They are the only ones who know how to play the game. One of the two need to win. On the other hand, I don't mind seeing Jaclyn in the final, just for the LOL and other selfish reason. She can be the next Amanda.

If Keith ended up winning, I'd throw something at my TV.

[Wandering Snark]

Maybe it's just me but I want the words "and then you'll untie a set of puzzle pieces" to be stricken from the Survivor lexicon. Enough puzzles (no matter their shape) already!

[KimberStormer]

I am really excited to see the emergence of Reed as a player.  I've been waiting for it all season...how could I not root for Spider-Man?  But he was just not in the show for so long, I thought he must be a total dud.  So glad to see he's playing and playing hard.  He allllllmost pulled off a Cirie Triple Play today (not as amazing as her real Triple Play in Panama because that did not entail vote-splitting, just three different sets of suckers).  And I just like him, I dunno.  Those eyes of his, probably.  I can't believe how bad Keith blew it.  (Though it did give me the idea that saying "HEY MAN, STICK WITH THE PLAN OKAY?" to the least-trusted member of the enemy alliance might be an excellent way to scramble if you're in danger.  I'll save that one for the day when I am reincarnated into someone athletic enough to go on Survivor season 123: Fans VS Favorites 30: Mars or Bust!) 

 

I'm not totally sold on Natalie still and I'm not totally sold on her play today.  I was another one who was baffled that Reed did not go to her, but then it turned out she felt Reed was the biggest threat, for some reason.  I guess she thinks he's smarter than Jon, but Jon a) has been running the show and b) has an idol.  So it seems to me like Jon was her best target, and saving him this time...why do it?  On the other hand it is true that she could sit tight and enjoy the fact that she'd flushed both of the idols and had one that nobody suspected in her pocket...except that Baylor knows about it.  I'm surprised she trusts Baylor, who is, I think, pretty clearly in it for herself, whatever else you might say about her.  Keith and Wes, like a lot of people who have played over the years, are not really playing for themselves, but letting other people play for them, if you see what I mean?  But I don't get that impression from Baylor at all.  She will cut Natalie's throat if she thinks it will keep her in the game, for sure.  Anyway, it remains to be seen if Natalie is playing smart or dumb.  I do sort of love that she has clung to the idea of a woman's alliance through all this, and if a women's alliance were to come out on top in a season where the women were outnumbered before the game even started because of the last-minute pulling from the game, that would be pretty amazing.

 

But the funny thing about this season to me is the relationship of the players to Jeff Probst, which I feel is different than any other I can remember.  What with the bargaining for flint, swapping rewards, etc, he's somehow closer to them than usual, I feel like?  And also, it's just my feeling, but he seems to have more contempt for them than usual?  This reward of course was very clear about it--usually he wants to tempt them, but this time he was like "I don't even care if you get down, shut up," and then was obviously not loving it when Wes brought up Two and a Half Men (did Jeff really appear naked on that show?)  And yet they seem more comfortable bantering with him.  Or maybe that's why he hates them.  I dunno.  It's weird.

[SnideAsides]

Maybe it's just me but I want the words "and then you'll untie a set of puzzle pieces" to be stricken from the Survivor lexicon. Enough puzzles (no matter their shape) already!

Can we also get rid of "untie a bag of balls"? Because seriously. Those challenges never ever work.

But the funny thing about this season to me is the relationship of the players to Jeff Probst, which I feel is different than any other I can remember.  What with the bargaining for flint, swapping rewards, etc, he's somehow closer to them than usual, I feel like?  And also, it's just my feeling, but he seems to have more contempt for them than usual?  This reward of course was very clear about it--usually he wants to tempt them, but this time he was like "I don't even care if you get down, shut up," and then was obviously not loving it when Wes brought up Two and a Half Men (did Jeff really appear naked on that show?)  And yet they seem more comfortable bantering with him.  Or maybe that's why he hates them.  I dunno.  It's weird.

We've finally got a cast where nobody treats him as a benevolent god, and it's pissing him off. I'd bet there's a metric fuckton of the players mocking his delusions of grandeur in the editing room Recycle Bin.

[Richness]

I didn't have any feelings about Wes other than 'hnngh', and then he went and pulled such an awesome zinger on Probst. That was hilarious, Jeff's smile was a total "shut up, or I'll come stab you in your tent and DQ you for an injury." And now he's gone. Geez.

 

Heh heh.

 

So, I'm a little confused about where Natalie's idol came from? Did they re-bury the one Rocker found? Did they spawn a new idol at merge? It was news to me that another idol was available to be found. 

I was wondering about that, too. When that was shown in the promo I was confused because I didn't think there was an idol to be found. Is the merged tribe on the yellow tribe's beach? If so, maybe they rehid John Rocker's idol and it's only now that these dumbasses thought to look for it. Or maybe they just hid an idol at merge. I believe they normally do that, but there weren't any clues with the merge feast, so I assumed they didn't hide one this season. Then again, maybe there was a clue and we just didn't see it. Curse the terrible editing!

 

I was wondering where that idol came from too, nor do I buy this other explanation. The idols that were originally hidden at both tribe's camp were both found. The one that Rocker found went home with him. In the past, those usually aren't rehidden as it's just considered a casualty of the game. The one Kieth found didn't come out until tonight. The one Jon found came from the one hidden on Exile Island. (On a side note, I wonder if it was there during the entire game, or if they "hid" it after the merge.)

 

In order to find them, you did have to get clues from Exile Island. And since someone from either tribe could choose the correct urn with the clue it, they both had to be hid in the same spot at each tribe. I forget what it was specifically, but it was something like six feet northeast from the well. And the talisman that Kieth found on the well cover was the clue on which direction and how far to dig. There was probably a similar one for Rocker's idol, but I don't recall them making a big deal about it. I also remember being just as suspicious that the stunt cast chosen contestant found the idol with random digging.

 

Now we have another stunt cast contestant deciding to hunt for a second idol out of the blue after being out there several weeks. I really hate when this show makes me join the conspiracy theory crowd. (Those tin foil hats are uncomfortable and hot!) I suppose it's possible that it was Rocker's re-hidden idol, but then the early Exile Island clues would not be pointing to its new location.

 

That's also the part that baffles me. Natalie said she just followed the directions that someone told her about the idol.(Baylor?) No one got clues to the new location. Or did the clues early on Exile Island lead to multiple locations, and they just decided to pick one? I imagine it would be hard to find that many similar locations at two different tribe locations.

 

Nor does it seem likely that Natalie's idol was provided as the merge feast idol. I suspect if there was, the true game players (Kieth, Josh, and Natalie) would have found that the second they merged. So I don't think that's where the idol came from. Nor do I think that the editors would neglect to show someone finding the clue due to the possible drama that it would cause.

 

Frankly, I just think the producers were getting pissed that no one was playing an idol, so they decided to toss a fourth one into the game. Then told Natalie where to dig and act surprised. That's certainly the simplest explanation, but I admit my dislike of Natalie may be clouding my judgement.

 

That sloth almost looked like a woman crawling through the jungle.

My girlfriend thought there was a Japanese ghost on survivor and it turned out to be just a sloth. Oh well. Sloth for the win!

 

I thought it was the girl from The Ring, and this was their horrible way to advertise a crappy sequel. Glad it's just a scary sloth.

 

Overall, excellent episode. I found Reed giving up the reward to Misty just as transparent a ploy as Jeremy and Natalie's. Again, a neanderthal's ineptitude thwarted a gay man's game play. While Reed's scheming was a beautiful thing, he really needs a better alliance mate even though he doesn't have any choice. Keith has neither the social skills nor the strategic skills for good game play Unfortunately, Reed's gone the moment he looses individual immunity.

[SVNBob]

That's also the part that baffles me. Natalie said she just followed the directions that someone told her about the idol.(Baylor?) No one got clues to the new location.

Yes they did.  Recall when Reed beat Baylor for Tribal Reward after the swap (and Rocker's booting) and sent her to Exile.  He was going to choose Julie to join her, but Natalie volunteered.  Those two did get a clue to an idol (Baylor by urn selection, and Natalie because Baylor shared it), and it was different from the clues seen prior; the second clues starting from the tribal flag instead of the well like the first set.  So a second pair of HIIs had to have been put into play then, probably while the tribes were at the arena doing the swap.  And Natalie finally decided to look for it in this episode.

 

I personally believe the second HII that was hidden at the Blue camp was dug up by TPTB during the merge feast and reused for the HII hidden at Exile.

[needschocolate]

Maybe it's just me but I want the words "and then you'll untie a set of puzzle pieces" to be stricken from the Survivor lexicon. Enough puzzles (no matter their shape) already!

 

I wonder rather hear "and then you untie a set of puzzle pieces" than hear Jeff say "and So-and-so wins again!"  Watching someone do a puzzle may not be as exciting as a physical race (although there have been some fairly exciting puzzle finishes and who can forget the laughs generated by Tina and Co. during the first BvW when they kept thinking they solved the puzzle and hadn't), but the challenges have been less predictable since they started adding more puzzles.  Ozzie and Colby would probably not have went on their immunity runs if there had been puzzles as part of the challenges.  

 

Besides, I like puzzles, I just wish they would film it in a way that would let viewers try to solve it at home (film from above at a wider angle?).  However, I don't want just puzzles, I want some part of the challenge to be physical.  

[panthergirl13]

Has anyone ever uncovered the contract these contestants (or BB contestants) sign? I'd love to see the part where it says "Yes, you're playing for a million dollars but producers reserve the right to manipulate the outcome. Good luck!"

[candall]

Though it did give me the idea that saying "HEY MAN, STICK WITH THE PLAN OKAY?" to the least-trusted member of the enemy alliance might be an excellent way to scramble if you're in danger.  I'll save that one for the day when I am reincarnated into someone athletic enough to go on Survivor season 123: Fans VS Favorites 30: Mars or Bust!

 

But the funny thing about this season to me is the relationship of the players to Jeff Probst, which I feel is different than any other I can remember. 

LOL.  I was content to just be bummed there was no Survivor in 1979.  I didn't know there was a reincarnation/vitality option--sign me up.

 

Probst doesn't bug me anymore.  He used to send down a zephyr from Mt. Olympus at regular intervals announcing how many more seasons he was willing to do.  Then he got the talk show and it promptly tanked.  Heh.

 

Dalton Ross made an interesting point his Survivor blog at EW, that "resigning" is no longer the unbearable shame it once was and it'll get more common as future players observe you don't have to spend the rest of your life defending that decision.  Maybe it will be the same with JP--the first snicker has aired.  Release the hounds!

[survivinmt]

Why would the kids necessarily need food? Sure, they were needy in that they didn't have baseball equipment, but that doesn't follow that they were starving. I know lots of kids that are fed better than me that will sit at my knees with big sad kitty eyes if I have candy or something they want. Doesn't make Survivor heartless. Kind of a jump to assume these kids were in need of food is all I'm saying.

 

I like the fact that Natalie has the only idol but the fact that Baylor knows is a real problem. I think Natalie could use or promote herself really well if she were the only one with that knowledge, but with Baylor knowing, its power is definitely lessened.

 

Interesting season. I love the breaking of the 4th wall with joshin' with Jeff about his questionable acting choices. HA!

 

I think all these folks are really trying to win with the exception of Alex, who I think is still wondering why they are playing and they haven't just handed him the million already? I mean when he walked up to Jon and Jon asked him what he was doing and all Alex would say is, "I'm down." I would have been suspicious and made him tell me who he was voting for and why because I think he would have gotten confused and just blurted out, "Jon, because Reed told me to. OOOPS, you're Jon. No I mean, Keith?"

[Special K]

SO:  We have two terrific, strategic, physically strong, and smart players, and they are each aligned with an untrustworthy idiot:

 

Reed - Keith

Natalie - Baylor

 

This will either cause me great despair or high amusement (or both!).

[survivinmt]

I know! Good times - right?

[ShadowSixx]

I will say this about Wes, it did seem from watching him in swimming challenges that he's one fast swimmer and not that bad at physical challenges. It just seems that he wasn't there to compete or play Survivor and just there for Keith more than anything. He could have actually been a strong player if he put his head in the game, but how quickly he dropped down for some chicken wings, never had any type of plans or strategy, even when Keith tried giving him the idol Wes didn't want it. I don't think Wes was into the game at all.

 

Does Natalie lose weight at all? I don't remember her winning any type of food rewards, cause she looks the same size as when she came in.

[fishcakes]

Why would the kids necessarily need food? Sure, they were needy in that they didn't have baseball equipment, but that doesn't follow that they were starving. I know lots of kids that are fed better than me that will sit at my knees with big sad kitty eyes if I have candy or something they want. Doesn't make Survivor heartless. Kind of a jump to assume these kids were in need of food is all I'm saying.

 

It's not so much that they need food -- they all looked healthy enough to me -- but if there's no money for baseball equipment then there's likely also not money for treats for the kids or at least not very often. So the idea of Survivor contestants, all of whom are well off enough that they can take two months off from their jobs and who can have ice cream every day of their lives if they want it, eating it in front of kids who probably don't get to eat things like that as often is sort of off-putting to me. I know the Survivors are really hungry at this point, but they knew that was going to be part of it, and they can eat whatever they want when they get home, or in Jon's case if things go the way I'm hoping, at Ponderosa.

[ProfCrash]

Natalie is playing a strong game. She was instrumental in getting rid of Rocker and Alec's idiot brother. She has formed a good bond with different groups, being seen as one of the guys by Alec, Reed, and Wes but strongly aligned with Jeremy and Missy. She just saved Jon's ass by telling him to play the idol and then had to explain to Baylor what happened as it was happening. It seems like Reed and Natalie are the only two seeing the big picture at this point in time.

 

Keith is an idiot but we have known that for a while. Jeremy attempted to explain the idea of sub alliances to Keith at a tribal council but Keith was baffled by the concept. So no one should be surprised that he found a pile of dog poop, dragged it into tribal council, lit it on fire, and then stepped in it. I would rather deal with Kass, who was all over the place but in a way that was calculated then Keith who just cannot figure out the game and how it is played. If you could try and see the game from Kas's perspective, you could use her. Keith you cannot know what he is going to do because he does not understand the game or how to play it.

[iMonrey]

I question Natalie's strategy, because while her plan to get rid of Reed first, followed by Jon, would indeed leave the women up by four over the three remaining men, one of those women would have been Jaclyn, and how can she know Jaclyn would still be on her side after she'd just booted her boyfriend? Yes, Jaclyn has expressed an unwillingness to work with the guys based on their foul behavior, but that was when Jon was still around and she felt tight with Missy and Baylor. Jaclyn has not shown herself to be any master strategist, she's just been fortunate enough to be in a position of power along with Jon. No telling what she'd do if her own alliance voted Jon out.

[Rick Kitchen]

 

I fear Missy will try to get Natalie out next if she knows Natalie has an idol

 

Ther's no way Baylor won't tell her mother.

[SnideAsides]

I wonder rather hear "and then you untie a set of puzzle pieces" than hear Jeff say "and So-and-so wins again!"  Watching someone do a puzzle may not be as exciting as a physical race (although there have been some fairly exciting puzzle finishes and who can forget the laughs generated by Tina and Co. during the first BvW when they kept thinking they solved the puzzle and hadn't), but the challenges have been less predictable since they started adding more puzzles.  Ozzie and Colby would probably not have went on their immunity runs if there had been puzzles as part of the challenges.  

 

Besides, I like puzzles, I just wish they would film it in a way that would let viewers try to solve it at home (film from above at a wider angle?).  However, I don't want just puzzles, I want some part of the challenge to be physical.  

 Oooh, there's an idea. Survivor should merchandise a range of their puzzles. (Targeted at the pre-school market, obviously.)

 

I'm pretty sure there were a bunch of puzzles in Ozzy's run though - that was the first season where basically every challenge had a puzzle at the end.

[Oholibamah]

Damn. This was one of my favorite episodes in Survivor history, although I'm not sure how much that has to do with the only person I still like pulling off a hat trick of awesome moves. First Natalie found the Idol, then she bartered with Jeff for whatever food she wanted, and then flushed two Idols while maintaining the majority. Her accidentally spitting on herself was just the comedic cap that the episode needed.

 

Reed was another one that showed some stellar gameplay with his own moment of comedic gold (having Jeff give him the necklace while he hams it up in a splits position). This episode reconfirmed my desire to have a Reed v. Natalie showdown at the end, because they are the only players left with more than one braincell to rub together. If one of them manages to pull this off, I will forgive the season for being so terrible pre-merge and having the dumbest cast since... well, Caramoan or Nicaragua or Thailand, perhaps.

[Wings]

I love the puzzles, they are my favorite part of the challenges.  They need some components that do not cater to the strong athletic ones. 

 

And again, I am SURE they gave those children lunch and ice cream!  The entire crew probably ate there, too.  It takes a long time to film a scene. 

 

Natalie looks to have lost quite a bit of weight, to me.  

[Shelby]

Can someone please give me an idiot-proof explanation of what exactly Keith did wrong at TC? I can't stand him or his idiot son, and wasn't really paying attention to what he said.

I'm so sick of seeing him spitting I usually look away when he's on the screen. Gross me out the door!

Edited November 29, 2014 by Shelby

[RedheadZombie]

I guess I'm just as stupid as Keith, because I think Reed screwed up just as badly as Keith.  Reed's stated goal was to blindside Jon, and he almost succeeded.  But Reed couldn't be satisfied with that.  He was cocky and felt the need to pontificate and show off.  He had three allies - just three - yet he felt the need to shed suspicion on two of those people. So he's flushed two HIIs, but also lost one ally, alienated another ally, and proven to Jon and Jaclyn that he's untrustworthy.  That leaves him with Alec as an ally ........  sounds stupid to me.  Jon came close to being as stupid  - he proved he can't read a room, pick up on tension, or listen to his girlfriend.

[riley702]

Though it did give me the idea that saying "HEY MAN, STICK WITH THE PLAN OKAY?" to the least-trusted member of the enemy alliance might be an excellent way to scramble if you're in danger.  

I'd love to see this in a future season!

So no one should be surprised that he found a pile of dog poop, dragged it into tribal council, lit it on fire, and then stepped in it. 

LMAO at this mental image!

[Oholibamah]

Can someone please give me an idiot-proof explanation of what exactly Keith did wrong at TC? I can't stand him or his idiot son, and wasn't really paying attention to what he said.

 

As far as I could tell amidst the chaos, Keith urged Reed to "stick with the plan", which implies that Keith and Reed had hatched some sort of scheme together.

 

Numerically, if the majority splits themselves 3-2, then the 4 guys teaming up would eliminate Jon. This is the most likely "plan" that Keith would be referencing, hence Natalie, Jaclyn and Baylor's "oh shit" faces. Jon, of course, was still clueless.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Oholibamah

[LoLo]

Natalie had a prime opportunity to get rid of Jon & break him & Jaq up without getting blood on her hands & she let it slip through her fingers. Does she really think she will come between Missy & Baylor or Jon & Jaq?. Dumb move to also let Baylor in on the idol hunt. Baylor backstabbed Josh, wrote Jaq's name down in the beginning, then flipped on Jeremy. I would not trust those 4 for anything. Natalie could have let Jon get voted out & then she becomes more of a necessity & has an idol. She gave up her reward to say thanks to Jon & Jaq but they didn't return the favor on top of not telling her about the Jeremy blindside. I would have flipped on them in a heartbeat & went with Alec who isn't that bright, Wes, again not the smartest & not keep the strongest girl & guy (Jaq & Jon) along with a mother & daughter that flip flop. I don't get why everyone worships Jon & Jaq. They go on the rewards, don't look like they've lost any weight & step on everyone whenever they want.

Damn. This was one of my favorite episodes in Survivor history, although I'm not sure how much that has to do with the only person I still like pulling off a hat trick of awesome moves. First Natalie found the Idol, then she bartered with Jeff for whatever food she wanted, and then flushed two Idols while maintaining the majority. Her accidentally spitting on herself was just the comedic cap that the episode needed.

 

Reed was another one that showed some stellar gameplay with his own moment of comedic gold (having Jeff give him the necklace while he hams it up in a splits position). This episode reconfirmed my desire to have a Reed v. Natalie showdown at the end, because they are the only players left with more than one braincell to rub together. If one of them manages to pull this off, I will forgive the season for being so terrible pre-merge and having the dumbest cast since... well, Caramoan or Nicaragua or Thailand, perhaps.

Best episode in Survivor history? Really? I thought it was the best of this season but far from the best of the entire show. Natalie was smart to find the idol but not smart to let Baylor in on it. Again, not smart to keep Jon when she could have broken up a power couple but not blindside them or get blood on her hands. Jon was not going to play the idol until she told him to. She would have been smart to separate them & take some control of Missy & Baylor, Jaqueline would be scrambling too. Natalie would have then been the power player for both sides as she could swing anyway. Now, Baylor will tell her mother about the idol, her mother will of course tell Jon & Jaq. So not very smart to me.

[truthaboutluv]

He was cocky and felt the need to pontificate and show off.  He had three allies - just three - yet he felt the need to shed suspicion on two of those people.

 

 

But that is just it...there was no suspicion being shed because everyone already knew Keith had an idol and Keith himself surmised that the others knew he had an idol. Reed's comment came after Jeff asked him about fighting for hours, he and Natalie, for immunity while others just stepped down. And Reed's comment was basically that yes, if people are willing to give up immunity you have to assume it's because they feel very safe and confident and he called out Jon stepping down and then he mentioned Wes and stated that yeah so it must mean he and Keith have an idol. Because let's face it, Keith and Wes were clearly not in the larger alliance so why else would they feel safe? 

 

All this should not have thrown or surprised Keith because again, going back to last week's episode, Keith said clearly to Wes, "they know I have the idol or someone else knows because someone went through my bag." Keith knew the other tribe members felt fairly certain he had the idol. I mean for crying out loud, why would Reed's plan to him revolve around convincing the others to split the vote if they weren't convinced that there was an idol to flush that would make splitting the vote necessary. 

 

I'm sorry no matter how many ways it's spun, Keith's move was just stupid. This was basically the equivalent of Philip's crazy freakout in Redemption Island when Francesca made the oh so horrible mistake of saying Rob would not go home and this bothered Philip because the plan they discussed was to get rid of Rob and so obviously that meant they'd lied to him. And it was like, "dude if you're going for a blindside, of course you say things to make that person you are about to blindside feel as comfortable as possible." Reed's comment was to try and make the alliance of 5 even more certain that splitting the votes was the way to go and stupid Keith, despite the fact that the plan was detailed and explained to him as clear as possible panicked for no reason. 

 

I don't want to say Keith is a completely idiot because I don't think he is. I think Keith's big problem is that he trusts no one and as this is Survivor, you shouldn't, at least not completely. However, even while you have to be smart and aware and make sure others don't get you before you get them, there are times when you have to put faith and trust in others to get through in the game. And the fact is, even with the Jeremy blindside, Keith was still in the minority with the numbers, so he really had no choice but to trust in Reed's word and his plan and believe it would go as he said. Because if he had it would have worked out exactly as Reed said. Instead, he succeeded in helping to get his son eliminated and he lost his idol.

Edited November 29, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Shelby]

Damn. This was one of my favorite episodes in Survivor history, although I'm not sure how much that has to do with the only person I still like pulling off a hat trick of awesome moves. First Natalie found the Idol, then she bartered with Jeff for whatever food she wanted, and then flushed two Idols while maintaining the majority. Her accidentally spitting on herself was just the comedic cap that the episode needed.

Reed was another one that showed some stellar gameplay with his own moment of comedic gold (having Jeff give him the necklace while he hams it up in a splits position). This episode reconfirmed my desire to have a Reed v. Natalie showdown at the end, because they are the only players left with more than one braincell to rub together. If one of them manages to pull this off, I will forgive the season for being so terrible pre-merge and having the dumbest cast since... well, Caramoan or Nicaragua or Thailand, perhaps.

Even more than Reed's fantastic splits, Natalie's "look at this fool" with her side-eye o him had me cracking up. I've grown to really like her!

As far as I could tell amidst the chaos, Keith urged Reed to "stick with the plan", which implies that Keith and Reed had hatched some sort of scheme together.

Numerically, if the majority splits themselves 3-2, then the 4 guys teaming up would eliminate Jon. This is the most likely "plan" that Keith would be referencing, hence Natalie, Jaclyn and Baylor's "oh shit" faces. Jon, of course, was still clueless.

Thank you, Oho!

Edited November 29, 2014 by Shelby

[KimberStormer]

I think Reed played in the ensemble, not as Spider Man, right?  

 

I think he was like one of several stunt-Spider-Men but not the main one?  In any case CLOSE ENOUGH

 

I don't want to say Keith is a completely idiot because I don't think he is. I think Keith's big problem is that he trusts no one and as this is Survivor, you shouldn't, at least not completely. However, even while you have to be smart and aware and make sure others don't get you before you get them, there are times when you have to put faith and trust in others to get through in the game. And the fact is, even with the Jeremy blindside, Keith was still in the minority with the numbers, so he really had no choice but to trust in Reed's word and his plan and believe it would go as he said. Because if he had it would have worked out exactly as Reed said. Instead, he succeeded in helping to get his son eliminated and he lost his idol.

 

Can I just say you've been killing it with your analysis this episode, truthaboutluv.  Every time I am about to say something, I find you've said it better.

[Way Wes Jr]

I've given up on trying to figure out what the overall "story" the editors are trying to give us this year.  I'm not upset, as it is keeping the season 'fresh,' but it makes it virtually impossible to predict.  Part of the problem is that, regardless of what the long term editing story is, the individual episodes are incredibly inconsistent.  There have been some really good episodes, (Jeremy's blindside, the obvious boot of Drew made entertaining,) and some really ham handed clunkers.  This episode - fantastically chaotic tribal saving it as a whole, fell into the latter category.

 

The trouble with this episode was you knew from the editing that the Jon blindside wouldn't work because they gave too much air time to that possibility.

 

Wish Jon was gone - they seem to be doing everything they can to keep him in the game.  

 

Actually, the voice over during the "previouslies," set the stage to give the result of the episode away.  When Probst mentions "no idols being played," he might as well added, "until tonight!"  Then, once Reed laid out his three way split, with two of the three having idols ... the only mystery was if Keith would keep his idol or give it to Wes.

 

I think I could watch this whole season twice and still not understand who is on what side with who.

 

Part of this is the editing choices the production staff has elected to go with.  But part of it is the mix of players.  We have fans who accept treachery, and are entertained by it (Josh, Jeremy, Reed, and probably Natalie,) a pair of unapologetic floaters (in the Big Brother, Alison and Jun style,) and a collection of the densest recruits, supplemented by 'loved ones,' who don't have the same enthusiasm as their partners, ever seen on this show.  We don't know who is on who's side, because THEY don't know whose side they are on!

[Misty79]

I was impressed with Natalie's quick thinking here, enough to finally root for someone on this series. She had to keep Jon for this week at least as without him the guys would potentially be back in control, and she would have been the first one in their cross-hairs. 

[cooksdelight]

I was impressed with Natalie's quick thinking here, enough to finally root for someone on this series. She had to keep Jon for this week at least as without him the guys would potentially be back in control, and she would have been the first one in their cross-hairs.

I see it the other way around. The guys all voted for Jon, they wouldn't have been targeting Natalie nearly as much as they will be now, for her messing up their plan. The only person who would have been pissed at her would be Jacklyn, I think.

[Oholibamah]

Best episode in Survivor history? Really? I thought it was the best of this season but far from the best of the entire show. Natalie was smart to find the idol but not smart to let Baylor in on it. Again, not smart to keep Jon when she could have broken up a power couple but not blindside them or get blood on her hands. Jon was not going to play the idol until she told him to. She would have been smart to separate them & take some control of Missy & Baylor, Jaqueline would be scrambling too. Natalie would have then been the power player for both sides as she could swing anyway. Now, Baylor will tell her mother about the idol, her mother will of course tell Jon & Jaq. So not very smart to me.

 

No, but "one of" and "favorites" were my words of choice, not The Best. I would never attempt to argue that this was the unqualified objective best episode of all time, but it heavily featured one of my favorite players, kept me guessing, and had a light-hearted tone throughout - I thoroughly enjoyed myself.

 

It's better the devil you know. Why leave an enemy 4-person voting bloc in tact to split up a 2-person voting bloc that is on your side? Natalie has tons of time to get rid of Jon later, including an Idol to do it with.

 

Telling Jon to play his Idol is the Occum's Razor best move - if it saves him, then Natalie's alliance is up a number and Jon's Idol is gone. If he plays it and the vote goes their way anyway, then Jon's Idol is gone. If he refuses and gets sent home, then that's one fewer fish to fry.  If he refuses and the vote goes their way, status quo.

 

Atrophying your own numbers too early is always a bad move. Case and point: if they had kept Jeremy around last week, they would have had the numbers to split the vote 3-3-3 this week and save themselves a ton of worry. By waiting one week to target Jon, Natalie has prevented a guaranteed tie against a bloc with an Idol.

 

I see it the other way around. The guys all voted for Jon, they wouldn't have been targeting Natalie nearly as much as they will be now, for her messing up their plan. The only person who would have been pissed at her would be Jacklyn, I think.

 

With Jon gone, Natalie is the most threatening person out of Jaclyn/Baylor/Missy. If you're Reed, who are you targeting next? Granted, Natalie could play her Idol and win the tie, but why even go there?

 

On the other hand it is true that she could sit tight and enjoy the fact that she'd flushed both of the idols and had one that nobody suspected in her pocket...except that Baylor knows about it.  I'm surprised she trusts Baylor, who is, I think, pretty clearly in it for herself, whatever else you might say about her.  Keith and Wes, like a lot of people who have played over the years, are not really playing for themselves, but letting other people play for them, if you see what I mean?  But I don't get that impression from Baylor at all.  She will cut Natalie's throat if she thinks it will keep her in the game, for sure.  Anyway, it remains to be seen if Natalie is playing smart or dumb. .

 

Baylor will absolutely slit Natalie's throat if it will help her game, but Baylor will also slit Jon/Jaclyn's throats. Assuming this alliance makes it to the F5 (before which Natalie has plenty of time to use Alec/Reed/Keith to maneuver Jon out of the game), Natalie has a uterus and a father without cancer - I can pretty much guarantee she will be a more attractive FTC opponent than Brad and Angelina. I can't imagine Baylor wanting anybody else in the F3 with her more than Natalie. She despises Keith/Alec, Reed is too dangerous, and Jon/Jaclyn give the illusion of jury bait (even though I think they would both lose). A Missy/Baylor/Natalie core makes the most sense, and support Natalie's decisions this episode.

 

Yes, it is potentially dangerous to go to the F3 with a couple, but shooting your own game in the foot to avoid it in a season filled with couples is worse. Besides, in a FIC, my money would be on Natalie 85% of the time. Baylor can have 14% and Missy 1%. Natalie also has the option of aligning with Jaclyn at 4, force a tie against Baylor, and be the more attractive choice to take if Missy somehow wins the last Immunity.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Oholibamah

[cooksdelight]

I'd vote for a third person out rather than a couple, because you're basically giving the million dollars to the two of them.

[peachmangosteen]

I've given up on trying to figure out what the overall "story" the editors are trying to give us this year.  I'm not upset, as it is keeping the season 'fresh,' but it makes it virtually impossible to predict.  Part of the problem is that, regardless of what the long term editing story is, the individual episodes are incredibly inconsistent.  There have been some really good episodes, (Jeremy's blindside, the obvious boot of Drew made entertaining,) and some really ham handed clunkers.  This episode - fantastically chaotic tribal saving it as a whole, fell into the latter category.

 

This! You put what I've been thinking into much more eloquent words than I ever could. The editing has just been odd as hell this season. It's both frustrating and entertaining. It is pretty fun to not be sure of how things are gonna shake out, but at the same time it's annoying that we don't really know anything at all about the dynamics.

 

I think Reed and Keith were both stupid at TC. As was Jon. Alec and Wes have been stupid since day 1. Honestly the only people left, including the jury members, who have not shown at least one huge instance of just blindingly stupid gameplay are the women, IMO.

Edited November 29, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

 

Honestly the only people left, including the jury members, who have not shown at least one huge instance of just blindingly stupid gameplay are the women, IMO.

 

 

I agree.  They can easily vote Jon out next, if he does not win II.   The tricky part for them (Natalie, Baylor, Missy) is to gag both Keith and Reed.  They cannot be allowed to speak at TC!  

[Nashville]

This! You put what I've been thinking into much more eloquent words than I ever could. The editing has just been odd as hell this season. It's both frustrating and entertaining. It is pretty fun to not be sure of how things are gonna shake out, but at the same time it's annoying that we don't really know anything at all about the dynamics.

I came to the conclusion a little while back that the editing couldn't be this bad by accident; it had to be by design, to maximize surprise for the viewers. Great for a whodunit - not so great for a reality show.

I think Reed and Keith were both stupid at TC. As was Jon. Alec and Wes have been stupid since day 1. Honestly the only people left, including the jury members, who have not shown at least one huge instance of just blindingly stupid gameplay are the women, IMO.

Notice the look of shocked surprise which totally failed to cross my face. :D

Of course, with this crew of Y chromosomes, it's kinda hard to argue the point:

• Keith - country boy who's been out in the bayou too long.
• Wes - rough country kid, but previous much a nonentity, game-wise.
• Alec - dumber than a sack of wet mice. Runs in the family, it appears.
• Reed - convinced he's always The Smartest Person In the Room, which usually means he'll be blindsided by those who know better.
• Jon - Jon? Still not sure WTF is up with Jon. I think he's at least average intelligence or above, but has a tendency to lead with his heart instead of his head - which is ok WHEN Jaclyn is around to rein him in. She's the brains of the pair (not to say THAT bar is set very high) - so if she gets voted out first, look for him to implode and follow shortly after. If nothing else, they'll be the best-looking couple in the Jury.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Nashville

[Shelby]

Natalie has a uterus and a father without cancer - I can pretty much guarantee she will be a more attractive FTC opponent than Brad and Angelina.

hee hee!

[iMonrey]

 

But Reed couldn't be satisfied with that.  He was cocky and felt the need to pontificate and show off.

 

I agree that Reed seems to feel the need for the spotlight at tribal council, and considering his alliance isn't exactly a brain trust, he did overplay his hand. That said, Keith is a babbling idiot not to understand what Reed was trying to do.

[Eggman]

Exactly.  And now that Reed has been seen to be lying about Kieth as a target, with Kieth as an accomplice, I predict a double-elimination episode that shows the two of them going without much suspense.   Perhaps one of them hangs on until the following episode while the slack-jawed longhair goes, since he (whatever his name is,) lied right to Jon's face.

[Donny Ketchum]

the slack-jawed longhair goes, since he (whatever his name is,)

That's Alec.

[blackwing]

I agree that Reed seems to feel the need for the spotlight at tribal council, and considering his alliance isn't exactly a brain trust, he did overplay his hand. That said, Keith is a babbling idiot not to understand what Reed was trying to do.

Reed was really dumb.  He wanted to show everyone that he's brilliant and a mastermind.  He should have told Keith in advance "I'm going to make it look like I'm against you and Wes and that I'm with Jon, but no matter what I say, I am voting with you.  I want Jon to feel comfortable so he doesn't play an idol.  Nothing to worry about."  Instead he's all about trying to act like he's with Jon, without telling Keith about it in advance.  People here are saying Keith was dumb, but from Keith's perspective, what was he supposed to think?  He's supposedly allied with Reed and Alec and they are going to take out Jon.  Then he hears his ally telling everyone that Wes and Keith must have an idol and that maybe they are going to play it?  I don't blame Keith for thinking Reed flipped on him.

 

I don't get the need for the pretense.  He had already told Jon he was with him, and Jon actually believed him.  Why keep going on about Keith's idol?  To make Jon trust him in the next round?  In Reed's game, Jon would have been voted out that night and there would have been no need to keep pretending.  Clearly none of Jon's alliance even suspected that Reed was lying to them.  I don't know why they trusted him so much at all.

 

I think Reed and Keith were both stupid at TC. As was Jon. Alec and Wes have been stupid since day 1. Honestly the only people left, including the jury members, who have not shown at least one huge instance of just blindingly stupid gameplay are the women, IMO.

The smartest person by far in the game is Natalie.  She is perceptive and strategic.  Missy actually seems to have some handle on the game too.  Baylor is a follower.  Jaclyn plays emotionally - her entire reason for not siding with Josh and Alec and crew was "they were mean to me".

[truthaboutluv]

He should have told Keith in advance "I'm going to make it look like I'm against you and Wes and that I'm with Jon, but no matter what I say, I am voting with you.  I want Jon to feel comfortable so he doesn't play an idol.  Nothing to worry about."

 

 

He did. It may not have been that statement verbatim but that's pretty much exactly what he told Keith and he did specifically tell him that he has nothing to worry about, no matter what.