S03.E07: Draw Back Your Bow

[JenMD]

It's never been really started but it's glaringly obvious that Felicity loves clothes. You don't have her kind of style (the kind other female characters are seriously lacking) if you don't love clothes, the seriously expensive clothes Felicity wears.

 

I agree Felicity loves clothes (and it's even more apparent the show's costumers love dressing her), but her wardrobe isn't particularly expensive.  Tends to be a lot of Anthropologie and nice department store type clothes.  I do love that they reuse pieces for her, as well.

 

It was just stupid that this particular event did not warrant it. If it had been a state dinner with the president or an embassy party or something it would have been easier to buy as necessary. (Also if that dress had actually been coutour!) As it was, she could have just worn the dress she wore to the lair and it would have been fine.

Yeah, maybe they blew the budget on actually getting the dress (although it's not the type of dress they'd use again, maybe they got it on loan) and they couldn't actually do up a big shindig, but that and the necklace were out of proportion for the event we ended up seeing.

[SmallScreenDiva]

What happened that he put out this tweet? Could it possibly be that people hated/ complained about this line so much ('cause it's OOC for Felicity) that Kreisberg now wanted to shift the whole blame on EBR? IMO that's mean of him. Even if it's her ad-lib, in the end, it's up to the EPs to decide what gets into the episode and what not. Thus, he (and MG and GB) have to assume full responsibility for what was said on screen.

 

Wow, I really didn't see anything nefarious in AK's tweet. I think that particular line was actually very well-received on Twitter at the time (I found it hilarious!) and he was actually rather proud of Emily that she came up with it.

[paigow]

You're very right about that.

 

That's a fiftyish guy and his fiftyish wife. She's very Talbot's. It's not like this was a charity ball they were going to. Wrong approach.

Inappropriate / Awkward is Ray's middle name....

[jaytee1812]

Inappropriate / Awkward is Ray's middle name....

I thought his middle name was Creepy!

[Kordi]

Wow, I really didn't see anything nefarious in AK's tweet. I think that particular line was actually very well-received on Twitter at the time (I found it hilarious!) and he was actually rather proud of Emily that she came up with it.

Thank you for the clarification! So I just misunderstand the tweet, sorry. Maybe, it's because my general opinion about Arrow's EPs and writers isn't the best at the moment. I don't trust them right now and interpret everything they say in a negative way. Well, I should do something against my prejudice. Episodes 3x08 and 3x09 will help me doing this, I hope :-) Edited November 21, 2014 by Kordi

[Delphi]

I agree Felicity loves clothes (and it's even more apparent the show's costumers love dressing her), but her wardrobe isn't particularly expensive. Tends to be a lot of Anthropologie and nice department store type clothes. I do love that they reuse pieces for her, as well.

I enjoy that too, shows that she's living with a real salary abd her clothes just don't go into the trash when she gets home.

I didn't mean to suggest that her clothes are outrageously expensive though, merely that Saks fifth Avenue and Bloomingdales could never be the majority of my dressy clothes.

[SmallScreenDiva]

LOL, I get the suspicion and distrust of the EPs, I really do. They're not ... reliable. That's why if I handled their PR, I would tell them to stop talking and stop tweeting :P

[foreverevolving]

When Felicity told Diggle that the dress was a loaner I assumed the tag on the back was from the rental place. That's just my assumption.

 

I actually think what she meant was that in her own personal view point- the dress is a loan, a loan from Ray. Ray could have either bought it or rented it. i'm gonna assume bought it, because someone like Ray Palmer can afford a Victoria Beckham without even causing a sweat to his bank account. according to worn on tv website the dress is worth 2500K. So i think, while Ray bought the dress with every intent for Felicity to keep it, as far as she was concerned it was a mere loan, just like the neckless was.

[KenyaJ]

^^^^ That was my interpretation as well.

[TanyaKay]

In this episode, the most honest and mature relationship that is shaping up is between Oliver and Roy. Oliver is concerned about Roy's well being and Roy is there for him when Oliver comes back heart broken from Felicity's office. They are both open and honest to each other - something they never did with their love interests.

Edited November 22, 2014 by TanyaKay

[Ariah]

Actually, I think the cocktail party clothes she usually wears would have been more appropriate.  I didn't think Mrs. Gardner's clothes were anything special, and if you want something from someone, you don't show them up by having your VP wear designer dresses and $10M worth of diamonds.

I sort of think that was not the point of the whole dress-up.

The dress and the necklace were a masque - Ray flaunted Felicity in her expensive attire in front of the Gardners like an eye candy. Felicity's couture was saying: we can afford this. We are very rich. Your mines are safe with us.

 

Also: "Mr Gardner, please look into that V-neck line of my beautiful VP and don't think of the consequences of your business decission"

And: "Ms Gardner, think about the fact that your husband can afford to buy you the exact same necklace onece he sells me his mines".

[bethy]

On rewatch, I think it's possible Felicity had told Oliver about the change in QC's name.  Both Diggle's and Oliver's responses would be appropriate if the knew. Oliver walks away and hammers on the heart arrow - he knew it was coming, but it still bothers him.  Diggle says, "Are you OK?" meaning "I knew this would (and is) bothering you. How are you doing, man?" Felicity's smile is because she's part of a new and exciting endeavor and Oliver had assured her (LIAR!) that he was OK with it. 

 

Maybe I'm wanking it, but I'm ok with that!

[statsgirl]

I thought from Oliver's expression when he was watching the TV that he didn't know about the name change (which makes no sense if he were still holding shares but what about the finances on this show does?)  so that he was hit by a double whammy -- not having Felicity available when he wants her to be and losing the QC name.

 

At least for the former Felicity would still be around if he paid her from the $4 million he has left so no sympathy from me, guy.

 

 

I didn't mean to suggest that her clothes are outrageously expensive though, merely that Saks fifth Avenue and Bloomingdales could never be the majority of my dressy clothes.

Sales.  Just sayin'.

 

In this episode, the most honest and mature relationship that is shaping up is between Oliver and Roy. Oliver is concerned about Roy's well being and Roy is there for him when Oliver comes back heart broken from Felicity's office. They are both open and honest to each other - something they never did with their love interests.

Oliver's most open and honest relationships in this show are with Diggle and Roy.  Thea begged him to open up and be honest with her in seasons 1 and 2 (this season she's keeping her own secrets) , and Felicity has accepted everything he's given her and he's still shut himself off from her, so again, no sympathy from me for Oliver.

 

This stupid 'star-crossed (aka asinine) storyline is really making me dislike Oliver.

 

Also: "Mr Gardner, please look into that V-neck line of my beautiful VP and don't think of the consequences of your business decission"

And: "Ms Gardner, think about the fact that your husband can afford to buy you the exact same necklace onece he sells me his mines".

LOL. although I think by this time, Mrs. Gardner knows she's not going to get the necklace, sale or no sale.

[bmjax]

I really liked Cupid. She was extremely insane, in a fun way. I am really enjoying the relationship between Oliver, Roy and Diggle. They are really the cornerstone of the show to me. And that says a lot because when Roy first appeared on the show I wished a fiery death upon his character.   I really liked Felicity when she first appeared on the show but now, I can't stand her. I hate her lack of loyalty. She does not have "staying" power in my opinion. How long has she known Oliver? One year, at the most. She is weak. When things get tough and SHE has to fight for what she wants, she doesn't. I really do not believe she told Oliver anything regarding the re-branding of his families legacy.  She went from believing Ray was a creepy stalker to giving him a hero speech at dinner. I don't know I could go on but at this point, she kind-of just completely sucks.

[catrox14]

I really liked Cupid. She was extremely insane, in a fun way. I am really enjoying the relationship between Oliver, Roy and Diggle. They are really the cornerstone of the show to me. And that says a lot because when Roy first appeared on the show I wished a fiery death upon his character. I really liked Felicity when she first appeared on the show but now, I can't stand her. I hate her lack of loyalty. She does not have "staying" power in my opinion. How long has she known Oliver? One year, at the most. She is weak. When things get tough and SHE has to fight for what she wants, she doesn't. I really do not believe she told Oliver anything regarding the re-branding of his families legacy. She went from believing Ray was a creepy stalker to giving him a hero speech at dinner. I don't know I could go on but at this point, she kind-of just completely sucks.

I have to say I completely disagree with the idea that Felicity is not loyal. I still maintain that her speech was not about Ray at all but about Oliver. I don't think we can say one way or the other if she told Oliver about the name change. And even if she didn't that doesn't make her disloyal. Maybe she had to sign a nondisclosure agreement about the name change and couldn't tell Oliver or anyone even if she wanted to.

Edited November 23, 2014 by catrox14

[wonderwall]

I really liked Cupid. She was extremely insane, in a fun way. I am really enjoying the relationship between Oliver, Roy and Diggle. They are really the cornerstone of the show to me. And that says a lot because when Roy first appeared on the show I wished a fiery death upon his character.   I really liked Felicity when she first appeared on the show but now, I can't stand her. I hate her lack of loyalty. She does not have "staying" power in my opinion. How long has she known Oliver? One year, at the most. She is weak. When things get tough and SHE has to fight for what she wants, she doesn't. I really do not believe she told Oliver anything regarding the re-branding of his families legacy.  She went from believing Ray was a creepy stalker to giving him a hero speech at dinner. I don't know I could go on but at this point, she kind-of just completely sucks.

It's so interesting how we perceive Felicity a different way... 

 

I really think that Felicity is really the most loyal of the bunch which can be seen how she cut dinner short to be there for the team. Regarding her not telling Oliver about changing the company name, Oliver is a shareholder of QC, he would've known about the name change of the company regardless of whether Felicity told him or not. In regards to Felicity fighting for Oliver, how in the world can she fight for someone who has given up? He's given up on himself, and has given up on Felicity. You can't tell me otherwise because that's what episodes 1 and 2 were about. Felicity isn't fighting for him because she can't, but she's THERE for him and will always be there for him. That's the best thing she can do at the moment. Felicity doesn't lack loyalty. Do you really think that if Oliver said "I change my mind I want to be together" she wouldn't jump on that? She would, because that's where her heart truly lies. Felicity would NEVER choose Ray over Oliver or Team Arrow. But she will sometimes choose HERSELF over them because she deserves to have a life outside of Arrow. But that doesn't mean she's not loyal to Team Arrow. It just means that she's also loyal to herself. 

 

In regards to Felicity being weak, I don't think that's true either. She's been dealt a really shitty hand and she's dealing with it the best way possible. When Sara died, Felicity made a choice and is now actively trying to pursue it. I think this season she's growing all the more stronger. While last year, she would've given her life to Team Arrow, but this year she isn't. Why? Because she wants more out of life than to just die down in the foundry. Felicity is  pursuing what she wants out of life regardless of how hurt she is, she's being a little more selfish than she was last year and she's doing it because she wants to be happy. She's pushing through all that hurt that was caused by Oliver and by Sara's death to be happy. That's who Felicity is. She's the type of person who values her own happiness and regardless of what painful events she goes through, she fights for said happiness. To me, all of that equates to strength. She's putting herself first for once in her life. 

 

The Ray thing was a bit out of nowhere, but that's just all contrived writing IMO. I honestly don't understand what changed her mind about him. I really don't. But apart from this, Felicity, imo, is a lot more human this season. We're seeing her stumble, we're seeing her make bad judgement calls, we're seeing her rise above her mistakes, we're seeing her faults more clearly. All the while, we're seeing her grow as a character. 

 

I feel like the people who don't understand Felicity's actions are looking at things in Oliver's perspective. I think this is because Arrow is in Oliver's POV and we don't really see Felicity and her POV. It's quite sad. But through her actions, I can totally see why Felicity is doing what she's doing. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

I can see it from both Oliver and Felicity perspectives which makes it even more sad.

[JenMD]

How long has she known Oliver? One year, at the most.

More than two years, she first appeared in the 3rd ep of the 1st season. 

[wonderwall]

I can see it from both Oliver and Felicity perspectives which makes it even more sad.

And this is why they can't be together, they're both in different stages of their lives right now and both of their views/reasonings for whatever is going on is valid. Oliver wants Felicity and Felicity wants Oliver that much is clear. But Oliver believes he can't be with Felicity in order to be the Arrow thus he gives up on her and the idea of them. Felicity on the other hand wants more out of her life than being in the foundry 24x7 unlike Oliver. But we all know Oliver's made the wrong decision in terms of what he wants out of life, even he knows he's wrong and I think he's on the slow journey of making amends. So now we wait for Oliver to finally be on the same page as Felicity. Let's just hope that she hasn't moved on by then because then that would just be frustrating to me as a viewer lol. 

[apinknightmare]

I really do not believe she told Oliver anything regarding the re-branding of his families legacy. 

 

She didn't have to. Oliver is a shareholder in the company and he would've had to vote on it.

[statsgirl]

 I hate her lack of loyalty. She does not have "staying" power in my opinion. How long has she known Oliver? One year, at the most. She is weak. When things get tough and SHE has to fight for what she wants, she doesn't

She's the one who rebuild the Arrow lair when he left at the end of season 1, and she's always giving him "you can do it" speeches.

 

And she's still there working for Team Arrow whenever she needs to.  She asked for one night off in two years.  In terms of working for Palmer, it was Oliver himself who said Palmer would be better for the company than he himself would be.

 

She's 'all in' in terms of the vigilante thing and she was there for a relationship till Oliver shut her down. Again, and again, and again.  After a while,  you have to stop hitting your head against the brick wall because the wall's not going to move and you'll end up killing yourself.

[catrox14]

She didn't have to. Oliver is a shareholder in the company and he would've had to vote on it.

Unless Oliver didn't pay attention or bother to vote which would be totally Oliver.

[apinknightmare]

Unless Oliver didn't pay attention or bother to vote which would be totally Oliver.

 

True. But that isn't Felicity's fault - especially if he still isn't bothering to give a damn about his financial assets considering that's all he has left of his family's company after he was dumb enough to sign it over to a psycho.

[NumberCruncher]

She's the one who rebuild the Arrow lair when he left at the end of season 1, and she's always giving him "you can do it" speeches.

 

And she's still there working for Team Arrow whenever she needs to.  She asked for one night off in two years.  In terms of working for Palmer, it was Oliver himself who said Palmer would be better for the company than he himself would be.

 

She's 'all in' in terms of the vigilante thing and she was there for a relationship till Oliver shut her down. Again, and again, and again.  After a while,  you have to stop hitting your head against the brick wall because the wall's not going to move and you'll end up killing yourself.

Right. I don't know how much more "all in" she could have been. On more than one occasion over the past 2 seasons she has mentioned that her Arrow activities have consumed her life, but she's dedicated to the cause. She has always provided the hero pep talks to Oliver even when he had all but given up. It's not like even now she has abandoned the team because she was right there in the lair in an evening dress at crunch time. I don't begrudge the fact that she's trying to find more beyond being stuck down in the basement with a man who would rather die than be with her.

[catrox14]

True. But that isn't Felicity's fault - especially if he still isn't bothering to give a damn about his financial assets considering that's all he has left of his family's company after he was dumb enough to sign it over to a psycho.

Erm... I never said it was Felicity's fault. I am defending Felicity. I even said she probably had a non disclosure thing regardless of what Oliver knew or cared about. I was also just giving Oliver shit for being a rather terrible CEO.

[apinknightmare]

Erm... I never said it was Felicity's fault. I am defending Felicity. I even said she probably had a non disclosure thing regardless of what Oliver knew or cared about. I was also just giving Oliver shit for being a rather terrible CEO.

 

Sorry, I misinterpreted!

[Ceylon5]

Frankly, if Oliver is so uninterested in QC that he's not keeping up with the on-going developments there (of his own accord; not via Felicity), not reading his shareholder correspondence and not voting on important changes within the company, then his lack of knowledge about the company is completely on him.  It really shouldn't be up to Felicity to feed him information about a company that some parts of the audience (not me) apparently thinks he has some huge passionate personal interest in, and there's no reason for him to rely on her for that when he has direct access himself.  If he were truly emotionally invested in QC as his family's legacy or whatever, he would be paying attention and keeping himself informed.  He was once CEO, after all, even if he was terrible at it, so he knows how it all works.  If he's not staying informed (despite being emotionally invested), then I have no words for how utterly pathetic that would make him in my eyes.

 

I personally don't think he's ever been very interested in the company, though.  He didn't keep up with what was going on there even when he was CEO, so why would he give a rat's ass about it now?  Even with only the most minimal interest, though, I would think that any adult man who has a monetary stake in a company his family once owned, would at the very least be responsible enough to read relevant correspondence regarding the company, particularly one he was bidding to become CEO of a month or 2 ago.  But that's just me.

 

Because the show hasn't bothered to show Felicity and Oliver having any kind of conversation AT ALL about her working at QC, we have no way of knowing what the status is with that.  Obviously everyone knows that she has Oliver's old office, etc. because they've phoned her there and shown up there, but we never saw her telling them any of that.  We therefore don't know whether Oliver basically shut her down and said/implied that he didn't want to hear anything at all about her day job, or whether he was okay with it, so that she feels able to chat to the others about the type of work she's doing and the changes that are happening at QC.  They entirely skipped over what I thought was a pretty relevant story point, and that's why the audience is left guessing about what kind of conversations Felicity and Oliver are or aren't having about QC and her work.

[statsgirl]

I don't think Oliver is interested in running the company, at least not at this time if ever.

 

But there was a time a little while ago when he did want it back because it held his family's name and legacy so I think there would be some sadness to see that lost.

[JenMcSnark]

I think there would be some sadness, but maybe in Oliver's mind the legacy isn't all that great anyway.  

 

The company has been at the base of a lot of bad things done by his father and mother and also being done to his family. I think he felt obligated in some respects to try to keep hold of it, and maybe in the future if he ever has the opportunity to get it back he can make it into a legacy that his family would be proud of.  

 

But I didn't see much surprise on his face in the renaming scene.  I felt he was sad, but mostly because he's watching Felicity helping Ray the way she was always going to help him.  And no, that's absolutely not disloyalty on Felicity's part.    

[foreverevolving]

She didn't have to. Oliver is a shareholder in the company and he would've had to vote on it.

Are we even certain he still holds shares? Is there any possibility he lost them last season during Isabel takeover? 

Felicity mentioned in the premiere that Oliver has backers (presumably of the financial kind) to get the company back, or am i missing something? 

 

than again, it's been awhile since i've seen the premiere, and obviously when it comes to business me and the EPs are totally not on the same page.

[apinknightmare]

Are we even certain he still holds shares? Is there any possibility he lost them last season during Isabel takeover?

Felicity mentioned in the premiere that Oliver has backers (presumably of the financial kind) to get the company back, or am i missing something?

than again, it's been awhile since i've seen the premiere, and obviously when it comes to business me and the EPs are totally not on the same page.

I don't know for sure that he still has them, but I don't know how he could've gotten rid of them, because part of the convoluted reasoning for Oliver's brokeness is that Isabel somehow diluted the stock so it was worthless. I guess he could have unloaded worthless stock, although why he would have when he was broke and still wanted his company back, I don't know. Edited November 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[bmjax]

After reading the posts about the DJ I was a little afraid to watch the episode. He was ok not the worst I have seen on screen. I have a hard time believing that Thea was surprised her DJ was so bad at the club. She was holding auditions. Shouldn't she already have a list of dj's from the last time she ran the club.  But the new guy is not the worst, just close.  I just hope that she and Roy and can their way back together. I really enjoyed them as a couple last year.

 

How long has it been since Oliver has been back?  Someone mentioned three years but sometimes show seasons don't equal years (example: walking dead).  Just because I can't say it enough I love the friendship between Oliver and John.  I loved the looks on their faces when they discovered that Cupid was a rabid arrow fan girl. 

 

I don't read comics so I am not sure what the deal is with the atom suit. This should be  very interesting. 

[Velocity23]

The show does RL time jumps during hiatuses.

[looptab]

I agree with Ceylon, the show hasn't given us anything about how Felicity working with Palmer has affected Oliver. Even in this episode, Oliver's issues were mostly with a potential romantic relationship between them ,rather than the business one; on Palmer as a man, not as her boss. We didn't see Felicity telling him she was going to work at QC again, as we didn't see her informing him about the rebranding. That doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[BkWurm1]

I really liked Felicity when she first appeared on the show but now, I can't stand her. I hate her lack of loyalty. She does not have "staying" power in my opinion. How long has she known Oliver?  One year at the most.

 

Taking to the Felicity Thread. 

[slayer2]

I think there would be some sadness, but maybe in Oliver's mind the legacy isn't all that great anyway.

The company has been at the base of a lot of bad things done by his father and mother and also being done to his family. I think he felt obligated in some respects to try to keep hold of it, and maybe in the future if he ever has the opportunity to get it back he can make it into a legacy that his family would be proud of.

But I didn't see much surprise on his face in the renaming scene. I felt he was sad, but mostly because he's watching Felicity helping Ray the way she was always going to help him. And no, that's absolutely not disloyalty on Felicity's part.

I think it's totally disloyalty. She could have given him a heads up. I don't give too many fucks about the business storyline b/c I'm still scratching my head over Ollie being broke. But as a Taurus, that was some cold shit. Felicity isn't perfect no matter how well liked, and that was a certain gaffe.

Her working for Ray, dating Ray etc is her business but she must keep in mind she is working at his former company doing the same right hand job she did with him in the Arrow cave. There's a sort of transference going on, granted it's heavy-handed by the writers but that was Ollie's company, his legacy. A heads up about the name change and a little softening the blow was the least she could have done as a friend.

Edited November 23, 2014 by slayer2

[katniss85]

I really liked Cupid. She was extremely insane, in a fun way. I am really enjoying the relationship between Oliver, Roy and Diggle. They are really the cornerstone of the show to me. And that says a lot because when Roy first appeared on the show I wished a fiery death upon his character.   I really liked Felicity when she first appeared on the show but now, I can't stand her. I hate her lack of loyalty. She does not have "staying" power in my opinion. How long has she known Oliver? One year, at the most. She is weak. When things get tough and SHE has to fight for what she wants, she doesn't. I really do not believe she told Oliver anything regarding the re-branding of his families legacy.  She went from believing Ray was a creepy stalker to giving him a hero speech at dinner. I don't know I could go on but at this point, she kind-of just completely sucks.

 

I completely disagree. Felicity is the one who is the most loyal imo, she is still working with team Arrow to help save the city every night even when Oliver probably broke her heart in the premiere.

Frankly, i really don't understand why she is still working with Oliver after the way he treated her previously, remember the time Oliver did not care about Felicity's professional career at all, e.g when he demoted her, an MIT graduate with exceptional IT skills to the job of his personal secretary for his own convenience because he could not be bothered taking the elevator 20 floors downstairs to talk to her and plus, he did not even consult her about this important decision that was going to affect her own career.

 

He belittles, shouts and takes his anger out at her when her head is not in the game and he is rather short with her when he is in a bad mood or thinks that she is not 100% focused as per his own words.What she does for team arrow and the risks she takes, she does it for free and he sometimes, takes her for granted.

 

I can't stand Oliver character, and the thought that Felicity should put her prefessional career and her personal life on hold out of a sense of loyalty for Oliver disgusts me so much when Oliver himself is to blame. He is the one to blame for losing QC as he signed the rights of CEO to Isobel even when his own mother warned him against it and he is again, the one who rejected Felicity not once but three times alone this season. Also, Oliver was not that much interested in his own company, he was always late and had to be reminded by Felicity, herself to go and attend CEO meetings at QC.

In the premiere, Felicity took a crappy job again at tech Village to accomodate her team arrow duties and was bidding her time until she could go back to QC, after Felicity helps him recuperate the company. But, again after Ray gets the company, Oliver decides to throw the towel as he thinks Ray would be a better CEO than him. He alone opted not to fight to get this company back, so why should Felicity be bothered?

 

Felicity, for 2 seasons now, has always been there for Oliver through thick and thin, at his beck and call and now, because of a decision he universally, took of not wanting to pursue a relationship with her because he wanted to wallow in his mainpain, she should be the one to put everything on hold for him? why?

 

First time in a while, Felicity put herself first and i was so proud of her in this episode.

She deserves a little bit of fun and happiness after all the crappy things she has been through in her life, she is still an awesome character that is still helping team arrow save the city everynight even with her busy job as vice president of Palmer Technologies.She still left in the midlle of her business dinner with Ray to help Oliver and team arrow and basically, trying so hard to balance her normal life and her arrow life, so to me Felicity is as much of a hero as Oliver.JMHO.

[KirkB]

Bruce Wayne was tacitly involved in the daily affairs of Wayne Enterprises, if only so he could keep up appearances and of course keep track of funding for his nocturnal activities. When he bothered to show up for meetings at all he often fell asleep or spent most of the time staring out the window, paying little or no attention to what was actually being said. But he didn't have much to worry about because he had guys like Lucius Fox and Alfred around to keep track of the paperwork and make certain he was told the stuff he needed to know. He was at least interested in maintaining the Wayne company, if only out of concern for his employees and his family legacy.

 

Oliver, at his best, had little of this. Before the island he had no interest in Queen Consolidated, except that it funded his trips and partying. Once he came back he was more focused on building the lair and killing people on his father's list. Besides, Moira was in charge of the company, and was probably a better CEO than Robert could have ever hoped to be. Once she went to jail Oliver had to take over but with no experience and little interest toward anything outside of the lair he was happy when Isabel stepped up and offered to help him out. Now this season he was working to get the company back, a little, but without someone helping him research and keep track of what was going on in the business world he was completely blindsided by Palmer. Once it became evident the board was more interested in listening to Palmer, who genuinely seemed to care about running the company, he stepped aside. Even now his aggravation about the name change doesn't seem to me to be they're taking my company so much as he didn't know. Which tells me he still isn't too interested in paying attention, and probably should be kept at far away from the company as possible.

 

As for Felicity, how is it her responsibility for protecting Oliver's feelings or giving him a heads up? He has shown zero interest in anything having to do with the company since Palmer out bid him. If the company is really important to him he should have spent more than the first fifteen minutes of the premiere trying to get it back. Yes, I know this is an action show and Oliver in a board room isn't really something that most people want to see, but it's hard for me to take his connection to the company seriously in a season where it has only come up twice, and I'm fairly sure one of those times had more to do with Felicity than QC.

[quarks]

Answering the financial question over on the Oliver Queen thread.

[dtissagirl]

All I got from Oliver about the name change was him being super bothered that Palmer is getting the "normal" life he wants with Felicity, but can't right now 'cause they still have 16 episodes to go this season.

The only time I can remember we ever saw Oliver take a personal interest in QC rather than a practical one [it provides money and cover for his real job as the Arrow] was during his pitch speech to the board: "this company is my family, and as my mother always said, there's nothing is more important to me than family". Which was a PR line as much as anything.

But then he lost QC to Palmer and told Felicity maybe it was for the best, and that for him to want the company was selfish, something the "old him" would have interest in. So I fail to see Oliver legit caring about the legacy of his family name. If the show wants me to believe he deeply cares about QC, they're gonna have to show it to me way better.

Edited November 23, 2014 by dancingnancy

[apinknightmare]

I love that so much conversation and character judgment has resulted from something that no one has any idea actually happened or not.

[Password]

Is it there intention to make Oliver look terrible or is he terrible? I will never know.

[JenMcSnark]

I think it's totally disloyalty. She could have given him a heads up. I don't give too many fucks about the business storyline b/c I'm still scratching my head over Ollie being broke. But as a Taurus, that was some cold shit. Felicity isn't perfect no matter how well liked, and that was a certain gaffe.

Her working for Ray, dating Ray etc is her business but she must keep in mind she is working at his former company doing the same right hand job she did with him in the Arrow cave. There's a sort of transference going on, granted it's heavy-handed by the writers but that was Ollie's company, his legacy. A heads up about the name change and a little softening the blow was the least she could have done as a friend.

 

I don't know that she didn't give him a heads up. I think if he hadn't known about the renaming, he probably would have reacted with some surprise which would have been a very normal reaction on anyone's part. He didn't.  He looked slightly bothered.  By what?  We don't know because TIIC decided not to tell us.  He could have eaten some bad shrimp for all we know.

 

If he didn't know, and he saw the woman he loves standing there beaming while his company was rebranded, that was a bad acting choice on Stephen's part.  There should have been some surprise.  And I know he is more than capable of showing that. 

[JenMcSnark]

All I got from Oliver about the name change was him being super bothered that Palmer is getting the "normal" life he wants with Felicity, but can't right now 'cause they still have 16 episodes to go this season.

 

 

Basically this.   

Edited November 23, 2014 by JenMcSnark

[Danny Franks]

Is it there intention to make Oliver look terrible or is he terrible? I will never know.

 

Is it their intention to make Laurel look terrible and 50 Shades look like a creepy stalker? I'm guessing the answer is no... but they're doing it anyway.

 

These guys don't seem to be very good at judging tone, and perhaps don't make a habit of watching their own show, to see how all their choices, and the choices of the actors and editors, end up coming across.

[quarks]

Is it their intention to make Laurel look terrible and 50 Shades look like a creepy stalker? I'm guessing the answer is no... but they're doing it anyway.

 

 

Laurel is debatable, largely because we're getting different messages from the show and the interviews, and in some cases we seem to be getting different messages from the script and the acting.

 

With Ray, yes, I think that the show absolutely does intend to make Ray come across as questionable and potentially evil, to keep the audience guessing about him until the final reveal of good or evil. The interviews have been very cautious on this point, pointing out that we don't know what Ray is actually up to and hinting that his motives might not be all that good. And on the show, leaving Felicity out of it, we've now had two episodes end with Ray looking at Secret Weapon Stuff or Armored Costumes in the dark, complete with Ominous Music, not to mention Ray going to great lengths to get dwarf star stuff (whatever, show) and info from QC's Applied Sciences Division - the very division that had so many potentially Evil Things (earthquake devices, things that you can make Mirakuru with) Oliver was willing to blow it up to keep even minor things out of Slade's hands.  

 

At this point the only argument I've heard for Ray being good is "comics."  I'll add that in general, Arrow has introduced its major villains with a touch more subtlety, and in this case may want to fool viewers into thinking that Ray is evil when really he's good, just as a change from Slade and Isabel last season. But I definitely think we're supposed to be at the least questioning what's up with Ray, especially with the ending of this last episode. Granted, this might be just because I'm finding him ambiguous at best, but I think the lighting/editing supports that.

Edited November 23, 2014 by quarks

[TanyaKay]

With Ray, yes, I think that the show absolutely does intend to make Ray come across as questionable and potentially evil, to keep the audience guessing about him until the final reveal of good or evil. The interviews have been very cautious on this point, pointing out that we don't know what Ray is actually up to and hinting that his motives might not be all that good. And on the show, leaving Felicity out of it, we've now had two episodes end with Ray looking at Secret Weapon Stuff or Armored Costumes in the dark, complete with Ominous Music, not to mention Ray going to great lengths to get dwarf star stuff (whatever, show) and info from QC's Applied Sciences Division - the very division that had so many potentially Evil Things (earthquake devices, things that you can make Mirakuru with) Oliver was willing to blow it up to keep even minor things out of Slade's hands.  

 

At this point the only argument I've heard for Ray being good is "comics."  I'll add that in general, Arrow has introduced its major villains with a touch more subtlety, and in this case may want to fool viewers into thinking that Ray is evil when really he's good, just as a change from Slade and Isabel last season. But I definitely think we're supposed to be at the least questioning what's up with Ray, especially with the ending of this last episode. Granted, this might be just because I'm finding him ambiguous at best, but I think the lighting/editing supports that.

 

but Arrow has sometimes made its characters flip sides. Shado was a villain in comics but a hero - sort of - on the show. May be they plan to flip a hero into a villain with Ray Palmer (Who am I kidding, they totally won't.)

[Starfish35]

but Arrow has sometimes made its characters flip sides. Shado was a villain in comics but a hero - sort of - on the show. May be they plan to flip a hero into a villain with Ray Palmer (Who am I kidding, they totally won't.)

Well, look what they did to Huntress.

[TanyaKay]

Well, look what they did to Huntress.

 

But Brandon Routh must have cost them a pretty penny. Would they want to let it all go to waste?

 

In any case, now that her dad is dead, Helena's redemption arc is all but paved. She could still be a hero.

Edited November 24, 2014 by TanyaKay

[statsgirl]

I think in this episode, Ray Palmer was more socially inept than stalkery, although I still wouldn't put it past him to SWM Oliver.

 

But he did make Felicity a VP, recognizing how good she is, and for that I can forgive him some.

 

In any case, now that her dad is dead, Helena's redemption arc is all but paved. She could still be a hero.

Yep.  Helena redeemed for a possible BoP spin-off, The Atom in either his own or on The Flash.