S02.E08: Heartless

[Kanner]

About Witnesses having romantic complications: I don't like watching the Cranes but in Ichabod's defense his complication was built in.  It is easier not to start something than get rid of a wife. At least for now she is out of the Witnesses' hair.

[Tippi Blevins]

When Katrina looked at the baby, her necklace began to glow.  That's when she got that 'it's my baby!' look on her face.  I think she's under a spell. That could lead to some good scenes, since I'm assuming she fiercely try to protect it when Crane and Abbie try to destroy it.

 

"You don't think Baby Moloch has earned my love?!"

 

I'm kind of hoping Katrina isn't under a spell, knows it's an illusion, and is faking her "awww bebby!" reaction to trick Henry and Abe with her "skilled operative" ways. That may be too much to hope for.

[tv echo]

The opening scene of Katrina and Ichabod watching reality TV was cringe-inducing.  I thought 'I can't believe Ichabod is back in love with Katrina after all her lies.'  And I hoped that we would find out that Katrina had put a love spell on Ichabod all those centuries ago because Ichabod is like a different person with Katrina than he is when she isn't around.  But unfortunately I don't think that's the case.

 

As the episode progressed, however, there were clear indications that Ichabod's feelings for Katrina have changed, although he was battling those new feelings since he thought she was "the love of his life".  There was his talk with Abbie about how they've all changed because of everything they've gone through and how relationships must evolve.   There was also the succubus (dressed like Katrina) who talked about his doubts and fears about his "heart's desire".

 

I liked that the tension between Abbie and Katrina was brought out into the open, with Abbie calling Katrina out for being "condescending" and Katrina admitting that she may seem "irrational".  It was also clear that each felt that her bond with Ichabod was threatened (and I'm not talking about romance).  Ichabod's constantly catering to Katrina was annoying, but she is his avowed wife so he probably feels his first allegiance should be to her.  Katrina's deciding to go back to Abraham in order to get close to Moloch was a relief.  But it was a nice surprise to find out that she has been bespelled with the glowy necklace and will most likely be acting as mother to baby Moloch, who will probably grow at a supernatural rate.

 

Although this episode was hard to sit through sometimes (the succubus storyline was too reminiscent of episodes of The X-Files and Buffy), it did make me understand Katrina's role better.  Once TPTB made the decision to make Jeremy one of the Horsemen and to have John Noble return as a regular cast member, then Katrina had to be brought to the modern day and given increased presence on the show in order to have the parent-child drama/conflict.  I've been wondering how this whole story arc with Jeremy and Abraham will be wrapped up because it can't go on forever - the audience would revolt.

 

I think this season will culminate in an epic battle involving everyone, in which Jeremy and Abraham will be defeated, and in which Katrina and maybe Frank will be killed.  Then we'll find out that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are spirits that can't be killed and that, when the bodies they inhabit are destroyed, they simply move into new bodies.  Then in an ending twist, we'll find out that Katrina and Frank(?) are now the new Horsemen of Death and War.  Just my speculation.

 

Scenes for next week indicate that episode will be all about the Mills sisters and their mother.  Perhaps their mother will turn out to be a Horseman (there are four, after all), and then Abbie will be in the same predicament as Ichabod is now - with a loved one being the enemy?  (I previously speculated that the Four Horsemen have inhabited different people throughout the centuries as the two Witnesses have changed throughout history.)

Edited November 11, 2014 by tv echo

[fantique]

Although this episode was hard to sit through sometimes (the succubus storyline was too reminiscent of episodes of The X-Files and Buffy), it did make me understand Katrina's role better.  Once TPTB made the decision to make Jeremy one of the Horsemen and to have John Noble return as a regular cast member, then Katrina had to be brought to the modern day and given increased presence on the show in order to have the parent-child drama/conflict.  I've been wondering how this whole story arc with Jeremy and Abraham will be wrapped up because it can't go on forever - the audience would revolt.

 

I think this season will culminate in an epic battle involving everyone, in which Jeremy and Abraham will be defeated, and in which Katrina and maybe Frank will be killed.  Then we'll find out that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are spirits that can't be killed and that, when the bodies they inhabit are destroyed, they simply move into new bodies.  Then in an ending twist, we'll find out that Katrina and Frank(?) are now the new Horsemen of Death and War.  Just my speculation.

The first paragraph helps me consider the writers smarter then. Because that would make sense that this is the use of the character. Otherwise I would think them tone-deaf. I agree that out of the 2 parents the one more delusional and desperate to hold on to Jeremy is Katrina. Crane kind of already sounds like he is leaning towards Abbie's side so the only that provides a counter balance is Katrina, who did not actively bother me (heck she's more of an annoyance) until baby-moloch-gate.

I also think that having them separate from Katrina for so long makes it awkward when she's included in Team Witness which I really wished they had avoided. Now her screentime will always actively taking focus away from others' like Jenny and Frank whereas she could have been part of a shared team screentime plus a token scene with Crane and there would be more time for Mr & Mrs BAMF. Oh well, spilt milk and all that. 

 

I really like your prediction for the end of the season and I am definitely leaning toward this type of outcome, with the Horsemen changing quite a few times before the Final battle.

 

ETA: Is it weird that I like Katrina better in her scenes with Abbie (and anyone else after) than Crane? She seems less spineless somehow.

Edited November 11, 2014 by fantique

[DeLurker]

 

"You don't think Henry has earned my love?"

I think Henry and Katrina deserve each others' "love".

 

I HATE HATE HATE how they've neutered Headless.  Clearly, he only gets his head or his balls, but not both.

Edited November 11, 2014 by DeLurker

[Amethyst]

The succubus (as Katrina) to Ichy:  "I can sense your desire. It burns strong even though you try so hard to hide it."

 

So Ichy is hiding his "burning desire" for Katrina... his wife... What? Why? The lack of passion is supposed to be hidden burning desire? LMAO! They can miss me with that lame ass lazy writing!

 

Yeah, that was weird.  I thought they were talking about Ichabod's attraction to Abbie, because it really doesn't make sense if they're talking about Katrina.  We already know he wants her; she's his wife.  Unless they mean a different kind of desire.  Doe he have a burning desire to leave her?  Tell her to fuck off because he no longer trusts her?  It wasn't clear.

 

 

As much as I don't care for Katrina, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt on this one.  When Abraham told Henry that Katrina had come back and Henry said to bring her to him, he asked if she was still wearing the necklace.  Henry looked extremely pleased when Abraham said yes.   When Katrina looked at the baby, her necklace began to glow.  That's when she got that 'it's my baby!' look on her face.  I think she's under a spell.  That could lead to some good scenes, since I'm assuming she'll fiercely try to protect it when Crane and Abbie try to destroy it.

 

I think the necklace has the same effect on baby Moloch as it does on Abraham.  Instead of seeing a demon, Katrina sees a real baby.  I'm thinking that's where the "spell" comes in. 

 

But it doesn't matter if the baby looks human or not, Katrina knows it's evil.  It's bad enough they're doing this with Henry, but if she starts going "Moloch just needs a hug!" then that's a new level of dumb.

[DkNNy79]

Loved Abbie.  I feel like she has been carrying the workload more lately among the witnesses.  Hopefully now that Katrina has gone back to Abraham, Crane will be back to his normal self.

 

I like Hawley.  He's pretty to look at and I like his attraction to Abbie, even though I don't like that he had a past with Jenny.  Abbie is awesome and its nice to have it acknowledged by a member of the opposite sex.  I also appreciated his shirtless scene.

 

I don't like Crane with his hair down.  I appreciated him asking Hawley about his intentions toward Abbie.  I pretty much just ignore Katrina.  I'm surprised no one on team witness has asked her about the necklace she's wearing.

 

What does BAMF stand for?

 

Can't wait for next week.

[marleyfan]

I'm confused about something. Succubus locked the door when she decided to suck the life out of Crane. How did Hawley get in the room?

Edited November 11, 2014 by marleyfan

[DeLurker]

 

What does BAMF stand for?

Bad Ass Mo' Fu.

 

 

Succubus locked the door when she decided to suck the life out of Crane.

They did make a whole scene of that, didn't they?  Which seems kind of pointless because if I am a succubus, I come equipped with enough skills to capture my prey without locking the door.

 

But it was a flimsy lock anyway, so Hawley could have just given the door a good kick and he's in.

[Julia]

What does BAMF stand for?

 

Badass person with oedipal tendencies.

[FierceAfroChick]

What does BAMF stand for?

 

 

Bad Ass MotherFucker

 

The Bible speaks against witchcraft...would God want his Witnesses practicing it?  But it wouldn't be the first time the writers have gotten something wrong on that front, so...

 

There's an unwritten rule among black women (sorry, I only know about that dynamic when it comes to sistas) that we don't keep it in the family or among friends.  So this Abbie/Hawley/Jenny thing is making me want to throw up and get a twitter account so I can educate the writers.

 

The bad soap opera this show has become has convinced me to (maybe) tune out after next week's episode.

Edited November 11, 2014 by FierceAfroChick

[nurse1]

 

Yeah, that was weird.  I thought they were talking about Ichabod's attraction to Abbie, because it really doesn't make sense if they're talking about Katrina.  We already know he wants her; she's his wife.  Unless they mean a different kind of desire.  Doe he have a burning desire to leave her?  Tell her to fuck off because he no longer trusts her?  It wasn't clear.

 

I honestly think that she was talking about Abbie... I think that he believes that he has this great LUV for Katrina, but I just don't think that it's the same for him anymore and he is trying to be a loving partner to her..  we know that Katrina gives a little  side eye when Crane and Abbie interact.....I think that the writers are going a Mulder and Scully route with the two and we won't see any will they or won't they for quite a while. (if the show survives in the ratings)

[marceline]

I spent this whole episode asking "Where. The Fuck. Is JENNY?!!"

 

I did like Abbie's "This again?" when Katrina started talking about saving Jeremy. In fact all of Abbie's sighs and eye rolls were channeling my reaction. I just wanted to climb into the TV set, drive to the cabin, knock on the door and say, "Honey, you need to get the hell up on out of here. Let's go."

 

I know I've been saying that we need to see Katrina be a powerful witch instead of hearing about it but when they walked into the crypt and Katrina ignited the candles by waving her hand I finally figured out that Katrina is Sleepy Hollow's version of the sonic screwdriver.

Edited November 12, 2014 by marceline

[Quadmom2005]

I'm actually surprised by how quickly they are moving things along on the Hawbie front. I expected them to drag out a "are they or aren't they into each other" thing for weeks, but nope. I'm good with that. It was obvious Abs was feelin all kindsa 3rd wheel this ep, and I was SO good with seeing her cop some tude with Latrine finally. That revolutionary wench is all kinds of out of line and overstepping.

 

Ultimately, I'm Team Crabbie (sorry, but Ichabbie makes ZERO sense to me when we have THAT for an option). But still, Hawley is hot and complex. And available. I'm good with that for however long they wanna give it to us. Suck it up, Miss Jenny.

[moviewhore]

If I have to hear Ichy call Katrina the love of my life one more time I'll scream.  I hated everything between those two starting with them watching TV while Abbie was working.  And later on when he told Abbie to "protect" Katrina even though his wife is supposedly a badass witch.  Okay then, is that what Abbie's been reduced to? And why was it that he was the one coming up with all of the brilliant ideas while Abbie just watched and listened?  And why doesn't he ever take Abbie's position seriously in regards to Henry instead of shooting her down?  He was a total asshole all through the ep to me, especially about Hawley's interest in her.  Dude, you say you love you wife so what business is it who Abbie dates?  Unless, and this is the interesting route that will never be explored, he's trying so hard to convince himself he loves Katrina but it's Abbie he wants.  It would explain his dick waving with Hawley at the dance place and the succubus' "you're deepest desire".  Crane looked like a jealous boyfriend when he realized Hawley liked her, very territorial.  If he's fronting then that would create some conflict and good stuff but I can't imagine the writers being good enough to work on that.

 

Hawley being shirtless was wonderful.  Thanks, show.

[lucindabelle]

I used to love this show. It used to be so wild, move so fast. Now it's slow and nonsensical.

I was willing to get on team Katrina if they kept her around and shows her doing stuff, even with that never in nature colored hair.

I even liked her digging the bachelor and rooting for Amber. But then to send her right back? Lather, rinse, repeat.

[Bruinsfan]

I did like how subtly the Succubus made herself kinda look like the objects of desire. The minute I saw her hair in the bar I knew she was supposed to be Abbie-like. And then there was this nice camera shot where the scene went from the bar back to the cabin and it morphed from her face to Abbie's, but the hair was exactly the same.

As others have said, it was nice that the succubus was more about deep-seated emotions than mere lust. And I think it's the first time I've seen such a character played by an actress who couldn't be spotted as an obviously evil temptress from 50 yards away - usually it's some mute, barely dressed redhead with Endora-style eyelashes writhing around.

 

The Bible speaks against witchcraft...would God want his Witnesses practicing it?  But it wouldn't be the first time the writers have gotten something wrong on that front, so...

I don't recall the Bible being big on zombification or giving life to patchwork corpses either, so the forces of Good seem to muck around with creepy methods a lot.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

"You don't think Henry has earned my love?"

No, you crazy witch, I don't! Abbie was much more diplomatic than I would have been. Katrina hasn't seen him since he was a baby. What has he done since they've been reacquainted? Teamed up with a demon, buried her husband alive, turned her over to a horseman, killed many people, and tried to start the apocalypse. Oh yeah, I totally see why you love him. Idiot.

The only thing Henry has earned is a spanking. 

 

As I watched the final scene unfold, I was all "What is this evil bastard up to OHLOOK! A BABY!!!!!" so I guess it's a good thing I'm not a witness. (The only way I could have doomed mankind more is if there was a puppy beside baby Moloch) 

[saber5055]

All I could think of during this episode was Sleepy Hollow doesn't need the Witnesses, it needs Sam and Dean Winchester. WTH was up with the Supernatural soul sucking? This show has really turned into a POC, and by that I mean Piece of Cr*p. Someone needs to get Crane a scrunchie for his hair that used to be down on rare occasion and now is down all the time, no doubt because the cr*p writers believe viewers think it's hot. Not. And talk about soul sucking, Katrina sucked the soul right out of this episode. And all the blabber about who is lusting after whom, including the succubus who stops her attack on Crane to give a soliloquy that's just long enough for Crane to be saved. The heck? And on a shallow note, what's up with Katrina's hair that goes from dark brown to Lucy Ricardo henna red?

 

Last season this was my favorite show, I really cared about Crane and Abbie and the horrible Horseman of Death. This season? Please. The writers have become the succubus, sucking the life out of what was once a really fun experience.

Edited November 11, 2014 by saber5055

[DkNNy79]

Ultimately, I'm Team Crabbie (sorry, but Ichabbie makes ZERO sense to me when we have THAT for an option). But still, Hawley is hot and complex. And available. I'm good with that for however long they wanna give it to us. Suck it up, Miss Jenny.

 

Team Crabbie.  I love it!!  What were we thinking with Ichabbie.....

 

Until Ichabod gets his shit together and Katrina is out of the picture, I'm all about Abbie getting some attention from Hawley.  As long as it doesn't create conflict with Jenny.  Sisters before misters (To me this is universal).  That aside, I don't think Hawley's too bad.  He was a little dickish in the bar, but I get that he got his hopes up with Abbie asking him to meet her.  His ego got hurt and he rebounded by flirting with those other girls in front of her to make her "jealous."

 

Totally agree that Ichabod hasn't been treating Abbie like his equal partner lately. 

 

Thank you all for explaining BAMF.  Makes perfect sense for Jenny and Irving.

Edited November 11, 2014 by DkNNy79

[bethy]

I thought that so much of this episode was meant to convey the tension Ichabod is feeling about his relationships with Katrina and Abbie.  I know a lot of people didn't like the scene where Ichabod was mediating between Katrina and Abbie, but I actually liked the visual of it.  They shot each woman with Ichabod's hand in the frame, and to me it was a supplicating gesture, asking both women to see the other's side.  Which, frankly, is progress as far as Ichabod is concerned.  In the past he's been all about Katrina, but his doubt is making him open to what Abbie is saying in ways he hasn't been lately.  I think Ichabod has seen his primary loyalty as being to Katrina because she is his wife; now he's beginning to question that on some levels.  I like it.

 

People have already commented on the lack of spark or chemistry or whatever between Ichabod and Katrina, but that was so on display in the opening scene.  I don't feel antipathy toward Katrina as a character, but the awkward there was palpable. For sure on Ichabod's part, to me.  After Abbie came busting in, Ichabod seemed relieved, and there was a moment when he mentioned something about Katrina being returned to him and he added (I think) "and you" to Abbie. To my ears, his voice changed completely on those words.  

 

I liked Abbie's, "And now I'm going to have to punch you in the throat" to Hawley.  I hope they don't go there with that relationship, but I do like the humility it gives Hawley to not be sure about how Abbie feels about him.  And for the record, I don't see her returning his attraction.  Very nice shirtlessness aside.  

[HalcyonDays]

Marginally better than last week. Marginally better.

 

Katrina is a "highly skilled operative." Skilled at what, swooning? Not completely magic spells? Being unable to detect a bloody hex? Undermining Abbie? Complementing Abraham on his quince tea? The hell? The only thing she is good at is manipulating Ichabod.

 

How on earth is this supposed to be a powerful witch? Seriously? She can't detect the hex in the room. She can't complete a spell, so the Witness who does not (yet) have full witch powers, has to complete it? She can't stick her hand into a jar of creepy crawlies. Okay, I get that it freaked her out, but she is supposed to be a witch!! Witches make potions...you know, eye of newt, toe of frog, type of stuff.

 

Katrina is so WEAK. She gets a vision, starts swooning and Ichabod has to cart her off like she is made of fragile glass. Dear god. Katrina's coven didn't kick her out for "saving" Ichabod, they kicked her out because couldn't do magic if her life depended on it, and kept fainting all of the time. That's the real reason.

 

The Abbie eye-rolling was classic this episode. Classic. Loved her calling out Katrina on the whole Henry thing. The audacity of this witch to say "It's my son, my decision." Please. Also, when Kat asked about more reality TV, and Abbie has no time for her and just shuts her down. Remember, this is a woman who put post-it notes all over the motel room for Crane. She - and I - are so done with useless Katrina. Oh, and Kat having Abbie tell Ichabod that she is leaving. That's true love...? *dear god*. Terrible. Weak. Cowardly.

 

Like others, if I have to hear Ichabod mooning over Katrina again "The love of my life"..I'll scream. And I'm still angry that he hasn't called out his wife on her lies upon lies upon lies. And the love of your life can't even say goodbye to you. Nice.

 

I miss Jenny big time - she should have been there along side Abbie, slamming that useless witch down and joining in the eye rolls and throwing out some sarcastic shade.

 

Thought the Succubus was really good - the mimicking was spot on. Nicely done Caroline Ford.

 

I really do like Hawley - I know its skeevy that he was with Jenny before, but I still like him. It's funny, he can easily be part of Crane and Abbie and NOT grind everything to a halt. Put Katrina in there - it's just wrong on so many levels. Just terrible. In some interview a while back, I think Mison made some comment that Katrina changes the dynamic of the Witnesses, and Katia herself changes the dynamic between Mison and Beharie. Does she ever...

 

Having Abbie say "yes Kat, you are valuable?" Please writers. How many eye rolls did Beharie have when she read the script? Same with Mison at having to say "She's a highly trained operative." They must have cringed when they read the script the first time.

 

The words that Ichabod said about Katrina and Abbie being returned to him - I'm sorry, but rang so hollow to me. Nice that he remembered Abbie. The last two weeks have destroyed my love of Ichabod (I still love you, Tom Mison!) and his flowery words to Abbie mean nothing to me now. He is going to have to do a lot of work to rise back up to his pre-Deliverance levels. That little "wouldn't you like to see me dance" line left me cold.

 

Someone explain to me what Ichabod's true desire was? I was so lost on that. His true desire is...doubting his wife???

[Daisychain]

HalcyonDays and others have already commented eloquently about the useless, poorly-written charisma vacuum that is Katrina.  To this I would add, her hair turns my irk up to 11.  Is it a heinous wig or just styled to look like a heinous wig?  I really want to know at this point.  I can't with the crusty, processed loopy locks.

 

I miss Jenny and Frank, don't mind Hawley, and would welcome other Scoobies.  Aren't there any other cops who want to help stop the apocalypse?

[Tippi Blevins]

Someone explain to me what Ichabod's true desire was? I was so lost on that. His true desire is...doubting his wife???

 

I took it to mean that Ichabod was super hot for Katrina but trying to hide it because of his doubts about her. He hides it so well that it doesn't even show.

[HalcyonDays]

HalcyonDays and others have already commented eloquently about the useless, poorly-written charisma vacuum that is Katrina.  To this I would add, her hair turns my irk up to 11.  Is it a heinous wig or just styled to look like a heinous wig?  I really want to know at this point.  I can't with the crusty, processed loopy locks.

 

I miss Jenny and Frank, don't mind Hawley, and would welcome other Scoobies.  Aren't there any other cops who want to help stop the apocalypse?

 

It's a wig. I think they couldn't keep the colour on Katia Winter's hair consistent - and it probably ruined her hair, so they went with a wig this season. Her own hair is chin length and blonde.

 

I took it to mean that Ichabod was super hot for Katrina but trying to hide it because of his doubts about her. He hides it so well that it doesn't even show.

 

Is that what is was? Why does that actually make me feel a little ill? So what, his sex drive is dimimished by the doubts about his wife? Well, at least he has some honour left in him. And yeah, he hides it so well that he sits on the bed, stiff everywhere but where it would count, and watches TV. True love, eh? But definately not lust.

 

Once again the show tells me, but they don't show it. But in this case, I am actually grateful.

[netlyon2]

(1) Katrina is a "highly skilled operative." Skilled at what, swooning? [snip]

Katrina is so WEAK. She gets a vision, starts swooning and Ichabod has to cart her off like she is made of fragile glass. Dear god. Katrina's coven didn't kick her out for "saving" Ichabod, they kicked her out because couldn't do magic if her life depended on it, and kept fainting all of the time. That's the real reason.

 

(2) I really do like Hawley - I know its skeevy that he was with Jenny before, but I still like him. It's funny, he can easily be part of Crane and Abbie and NOT grind everything to a halt. Put Katrina in there - it's just wrong on so many levels. Just terrible. In some interview a while back, I think Mison made some comment that Katrina changes the dynamic of the Witnesses, and Katia herself changes the dynamic between Mison and Beharie. Does she ever...

 

(3) That little "wouldn't you like to see me dance" line left me cold.

 

(4) Someone explain to me what Ichabod's true desire was? I was so lost on that. His true desire is...doubting his wife???

(1) I kept thinking that half her problems would be solved if she would get a new outfit.  Lay off the corsets, Katrina!  Somebody should have her read the scene in Eight Cousins where Rose's uncle cuts the strings off her corset to show her what it's like when she's able to breathe.

 

(2) You make a good point about how Hawley doesn't disrupt the Witness dynamic.  Actually, if the show didn't screw things up by (a) giving Jenny and Hawley a hook-up past and (b) avoiding having the two in the same scene unless they were discussing said past, I think that he and Jenny would work well with Abbie and Ichabod.  I'd also like to see Irving interact with him.  I think the Captain's opinion would fall somewhere near Abbie's in terms of balancing disapproval of his profit motive with appreciation of his usefulness.

 

(3) Aww, I still liked it.

 

(4) My read of the speech is that Ichabod's desire is not what's hidden, it's the "souring" of his love that he strives to keep from Katrina.  So, it's his perfect image of Katrina (without the lies and secrets), the one that he's held onto and cherished for so long, that is his secret desire.  I wonder to what extent we are supposed to see this speech as influencing his decision to accept the reality of Katrina (in combination with Abbie's observations about war causing people and relationships to evolve).

[phoenics]

Lmbo Tippi.

Added to that - fans continue to tune out. Last night's ep got a 1.5 rating.

Not even the Mama episode will help, IMO. I think - most fans - after seeing such a huge focus on Katrina last night and the promise of more (Voldemoloch - love that name) folks probably didn't even see the Mama promo because they switched it off well before that.

I'm stunned that after the first 2 eppies this season things fell off so badly.

I used to love this show. What has happened to it is so sad. I don't think there will be a season 3 unless they do something epic right now.

The opening scene - was that an attempt on the writer's part to see if Ichatrina could be like Ichabbie? Because it failed. Miserably.

And I'm going to need the cranes to stop ordering Abbie around while they are living off of her - don't the writers see the ugly subtext of that?

What an awful show. I tried to give it another chance and I will watch Mama to help with ratings but after that the show seems primed to go back to the CFD that is killing the show.

I has a sad.

[DearEvette]

I thought that so much of this episode was meant to convey the tension Ichabod is feeling about his relationships with Katrina and Abbie.  I know a lot of people didn't like the scene where Ichabod was mediating between Katrina and Abbie, but I actually liked the visual of it. 

 

People have already commented on the lack of spark or chemistry or whatever between Ichabod and Katrina, but that was so on display in the opening scene.  I don't feel antipathy toward Katrina as a character, but the awkward there was palpable. For sure on Ichabod's part, to me.  After Abbie came busting in, Ichabod seemed relieved, and there was a moment when he mentioned something about Katrina being returned to him and he added (I think) "and you" to Abbie. To my ears, his voice changed completely on those words.

 

 

I like the idea of the tension between Abbie and Katrina. I also like the why of it.  The problem is Katrina has not earned my consideration.  She doesn't get to sit back and need to be rescued umpty times and then join the team and start getting an equal voice.   And this is the crux of my issues with the character.  They frittered her away for a whole season and now they are trying to rapidly integrate her.

 

And yes, the cold open was painful to watch.  First, we have had how many shows start this way this season?  Close up on Ichabod or Abbie saying something only for it to be it is about something else completely different.  It was cute with Yolanda.  It is overdone now.  But this was just bad.  There was no ounce of charm or inflection in the exchange.  Where was the humor and sparkle?

 

Katrina is so WEAK. She gets a vision, starts swooning and Ichabod has to cart her off like she is made of fragile glass. Dear god. Katrina's coven didn't kick her out for "saving" Ichabod, they kicked her out because couldn't do magic if her life depended on it, and kept fainting all of the time. That's the real reason.

 

OMG, your whole post cracked me up! I swear, though, Katrina is the worst witch.  Meanwhile Abbie was serving some Hermione Granger realness and finished the spell, no problems.

Edited November 11, 2014 by DearEvette

[DeLurker]

Nicole Beharie better win the Emmy for Best Eye Roll.

[Neurochick]

This episode was much better than last week's.  

 

But I have a strange question.  While I was watching (in NYC), I was also watching Homeland on the computer.  At one point, I turned to the TV and it looked like Fox forgot what show they were running, because it was Gotham; I thought it was a commercial, but it was going on for quite a long time.  I went back to Homeland and then Sleepy Hollow came back on.  WTF?  I felt as crazy as Carrie (and if you watch Homeland, you know what I mean).

[DeLurker]

Not crazy.  They had some extended promo or something for Gotham. 

[Timetoread]

I have to admit that I liked this one. Why? Because Abbie finally got to tell Katrina about herself. I wished it had gone on longer. Like everybody else I am scratching my head at Ich's hidden desire. His wife? How is that hidden? Sucky even took the form of Katrina. What I'm really thinking is his secret desire is to kill Henry and not trust Katrina. Because he is a Witness, his instinct is to destroy the Horsemen or die trying. Katrina keeps playing the family card and Abbie, smartly, plays the Witness card. He will have to choose and I think he will choose Witness - his fate as ordained by God.

You know what? I keep hearing about how powerful a witch Katrina is. Did I miss that episode. I kept thinking about another powerful witch - Willow, and how cool this show would be if she conjured up some Willow mojo.

You know what else? I think Hawley is ugly. I've looked at him from different angles and I just don't see it. I was trying to think of what tv star he reminded me of and all I could come up with is Harry and Hendersons. Abbie can, and already did, do better.

[Happytobehere]

I think this season will culminate in an epic battle involving everyone, in which Jeremy and Abraham will be defeated, and in which Katrina and maybe Frank will be killed.  Then we'll find out that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are spirits that can't be killed and that, when the bodies they inhabit are destroyed, they simply move into new bodies.  Then in an ending twist, we'll find out that Katrina and Frank(?) are now the new Horsemen of Death and War.  Just my speculation.

 

Scenes for next week indicate that episode will be all about the Mills sisters and their mother.  Perhaps their mother will turn out to be a Horseman (there are four, after all), and then Abbie will be in the same predicament as Ichabod is now - with a loved one being the enemy?  (I previously speculated that the Four Horsemen have inhabited different people throughout the centuries as the two Witnesses have changed throughout history.)

I liked your entire post, even the there's a reason for Katrina part, but I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe that the intelligent, well-thought out analysis you provided will come to pass. Between the change in writing staff and the admissions that Katrina was supposed to be killed of last season (which speaks of network interference), I have no faith that things will return to the awesome that made me fall in love with this show. In fact, comments from the writing staff on social media seems to indicate they are doubling down on their Rah Rah Katrina stance. Unless the network steps in to try to save the show, it will continue to disappoint and die on the vine. Having said that, I do love the last two paragraphs of what you wrote because I have been thinking/hoping along a similar lines.

And I'm going to need the cranes to stop ordering Abbie around while they are living off of her - don't the writers see the ugly subtext of that?

What an awful show. I tried to give it another chance and I will watch Mama to help with ratings but after that the show seems primed to go back to the CFD that is killing the show.

I has a sad.

I'm right here with you on that. I however do think the writers are fully aware of the subtext because it reflects something inherent in their views of the world. It is no coincidence that the show has become whiter and Abbie is now there to take orders from Ichabod and Katrina even though they live off of her.

[stealinghome]

Henry's sibling jealousy is going to be off the charts. He already has Mummy and Daddy issues.

I really, really hope that the show is going here, just because John Noble playing Henry as a 5-year-old is much more interesting to me than him playing Henry as a mustache-twirling villain. If Team Witness can play on his sibling jealousy to split up Team Evil? I am SO there for that.

 

ETA: Is it weird that I like Katrina better in her scenes with Abbie (and anyone else after) than Crane? She seems less spineless somehow.

It's not just you. Katia Winter plays much better off Nicole Beharie than Tom Mison (though I give both Mison and Winter a partial pass on this past episode, because clearly the point was supposed to be that Ichabod and Katrina are now awkward together). I keep joking about Abbie/Katrina being the way to go, but seriously, Beharie and Winter just have much more acting chemistry together.

 

Also, when she's around Ichabod the writing reduces Katrina--and Ichabod, really--to lovers out of an 18c romance novel, which does neither character any favors. Getting Katrina out of the LI role and into a more proactive witchy role, which tends to happen when she's around Abbie, does a lot for the character.

 

I still can't believe they didn't go the "Jenny is a witch, and Katrina tutors her in her witchy powers" route this season. That would've been much better than having Katrina In Purgatory 2.0 and Jenny being in offscreenville 90% of the time while Hawley comes in and vacuums up all her screentime.

 

Perhaps their mother will turn out to be a Horseman (there are four, after all), and then Abbie will be in the same predicament as Ichabod is now - with a loved one being the enemy?

I've actually wondered if there was a sort of dormant witness gene in Abbie's family and her mother was the previous generation's witness, hence why Moloch & co. went after her. Maybe Team Evil got their wires crossed and only realized later that Abbie was going to be The Witness?

 

And for the record, I don't see her returning his attraction.  Very nice shirtlessness aside.

I couldn't tell if Abbie was trying to be nice (because she's now clued in that Hawley has real feelings for her) or trying to get her flirt on in that last scene. Maybe she herself didn't even really know?

[patchwork]

Okay as no one else has mentioned it I guess it's just me and my shipping goggles that saw Crane's incubus as a mix of Abbie and Katrina, his desires too. He secretly wants one and doubts the other. 

 

In this one episode where they're trying to show Katrina as a valuable asset to team witness could they not have her fainting, being knocked out and unable to finish her own spell?  

The cold opening was simply painful, even putting aside their serious lack of chemistry, Crane works better as the lone voice against modernity. 

[Iamsweetdee]

You know what else? I think Hawley is ugly. I've looked at him from different angles and I just don't see it. I was trying to think of what tv star he reminded me of and all I could come up with is Harry and Hendersons. Abbie can, and already did, do better.

 

I thought it was just me. Some men shouldn't have facial hair and I think this dude is one of them. Besides that, he just looks so unclean even sitting at a bar. 

 

Not happy with the episode. Couldn't even get excited about Abbie giving folks the side eye as that is annoyingly passive aggressive. I was happy she finally said her piece. Too bad she essentially took it all back. Also ticked that the writers thought the two dudes deciding who Abbie could have an interest in was something I wanted to see. Not cute. 

 

I'm sick of the Crane drama and Ichabod. I wish we just had a show with Jenny, Irving and Abbie. 

[kimberella]

Like everybody else I am scratching my head at Ich's hidden desire. His wife? How is that hidden?

IMO, we're overthinking this. Someone suggested it was an attempt to sell the Cranes as the biggest love story, without Tom and Katia ruining their scene with their lack of chemistry and maybe there is some truth to it, but I simply think it was a way to stick it to the Ichabbie shippers. I don't understand the reasoning behind this, because it's been them, who have been doing the bait and switch all this time, but I think they finally decided to focus on the Cranes romance and they don't want the burden of catering to the Ichabbie shippers any longer. Whatever. I think the Cranes are equally awful people and they deserve each other.

Another week, another episode in which the Cranes treat Abbie like crap and like their personal servant. I mean, it's in character for them to be racist assholes and barely do anything themselves, but I don't understand why Abbie was complying with everything they demanded of her.

 

At least, Abbie was able to voice her concerns about Henry without being outvoted again.

[ChelseaNH]

while Crane has done nothing but put his romantic and family life above their cause. What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander

 

Crane keeps putting his family first, but I'm not convinced that this is being presented as him making the right decision.  After all, we still hear Abbie's objections to those choices.  Also, we see how witnesses can step in for witches, but not vice versa.  The most important relationship on the show is still between the witnesses.

 

I do wish the writers would have some idea how magic does/does not work, other than "however we need it to work in order to support the plot."  Katrina isn't so much weak (she zapped Abraham to keep him from killing Ichabod) as incredibly inconsistent.  She spent some 250 years in Purgatory -- did she get to maintain her witch skills or did they deteriorate?  (Also, they just recently brought up the fact that she was waiting and enduring for centuries with nothing but hope to sustain her; it would be more interesting to see that taking a toll on her in some way.)

 

I thought it was strange that Ichabod wanted Abbie to guard Katrina rather than doing it himself, but I have played D&D long enough to know that you have to guard the casters while they're casting, and nobody thinks the fighters are just being the servants of the casters.

[Quadmom2005]

That's no spell. That's stupidity. Katrina is no "trained operative". She's a woman reacting AS a woman. I'm beyond tired of seeing her. She's throwing off the flow of things.

[shanndee]

Well. this is the first episode I didn't watch live (and, in fact, I haven't watched it yet at all). Clearly I didn't miss anything. I might watch it on the weekend before I watch Mama live.

 

I'm so disheartened that Sleepy Hollow has come to this.

 

I has a sad.

[Fable]

Thank God Katrina went back to Abraham.  It's not even that I dislike her, but she really kills the mood between the witnesses, and I don't even ship Crane and Abbie.  I wouldn't mind at all if Katrina turned out to be shady or ends up going dark.   Her character just doesn't jibe with the rest of the team.   She sucks the fun right out of the air.

[Indi]

I don't understand why they want to send the message, that Abbie must automatically and inevitably become a third wheel, the moment Katrina is present. Is that how they want to treat the leading lady? Do they hate her to the point, they want to see her humiliated by Ichy and wifey two episodes in a row? They are shooting themselves in the foot with this weird fetish they have for Katrina and disrespect for Abbie. What does Abbie lack in their little minds that she's kicked around so much and basically used as prop for the Cranes?

 

I hope they don't act surprised about the ratings, because this is their fault.

[HalcyonDays]

I think this season will culminate in an epic battle involving everyone, in which Jeremy and Abraham will be defeated, and in which Katrina and maybe Frank will be killed.  Then we'll find out that the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are spirits that can't be killed and that, when the bodies they inhabit are destroyed, they simply move into new bodies.  Then in an ending twist, we'll find out that Katrina and Frank(?) are now the new Horsemen of Death and War.  Just my speculation.

Scenes for next week indicate that episode will be all about the Mills sisters and their mother.  Perhaps their mother will turn out to be a Horseman (there are four, after all), and then Abbie will be in the same predicament as Ichabod is now - with a loved one being the enemy?  (I previously speculated that the Four Horsemen have inhabited different people throughout the centuries as the two Witnesses have changed throughout history.)

 

tv echo, dammit, go write for the show and save this season. I love this idea. Love it.There was so much potential. Jenny a hidden witch that Katrina works with and develops her powers. Katrina an actual powerful witch. They could've gone the evil route. But no, instead we have swooning 18h century redheads, Ichabod being dumb as rocks and Abbie not being able to fully voice her displeasure (though this episode did a good job).

 

And you cannot replicate that type of chemistry (Mison and Beharie), simply by writing a similar scene. Thinking again of that "dancing" scene - look at how effortless the interactions were between Ichabod and Abbie. So effortless and connected and all of that. The cold opening? Shudder.

 

This episode was written by Albert Kim, who is a Mark Goffman - ie. someone who wants to push Katrina to the forefront. There you go.

 

And seriously...So Katrina is just going to nonchalantly raise this baby, no questions asked. The writers must think we are really stupid.

 

Okay as no one else has mentioned it I guess it's just me and my shipping goggles that saw Crane's incubus as a mix of Abbie and Katrina, his desires too. He secretly wants one and doubts the other.

 

I didn't initially see it (maybe it was my disgust and confusion) but seeing a couple of gifs on the internet - The Succubus does a head tilt just like Abbie does, her eyes go yellow and then Crane's eyes go wide, because he realizes Abbie is in there too...Damn...Too bad we'll never get there.

[Bosman]

Katrina is a highly skilled operative?? Best howler of the season. I wish this show would decide if she is supposed to be a bad-ass witch or...whatever they are making her now. I love how she didn't notice the protection hexes and then charged right in. And she can't tell that her necklace is spelled??? Ugh!! To compensate for the mess that is Katrina, we need much more shirtless Hawley.

[marceline]

 

(1) I kept thinking that half her problems would be solved if she would get a new outfit.  Lay off the corsets, Katrina!  Somebody should have her read the scene in Eight Cousins where Rose's uncle cuts the strings off her corset to show her what it's like when she's able to breathe.

 

Thank you for touching on something that annoyed me. After everything Katrina has been through and is "recovering" from, seeing her walking around in that corset is ridiculous. I find it hard to believe that any woman from Colonial times wouldn't be throwing that thing in the fireplace first chance she got. No wonder she's passing out all the damn time. Plus, she did get that think out of the lost and found at the hospital. At the very least it needs a wash. It could probably stand up on its own.

 

Also, it seems like this show is losing Tom & Lorenzo. I especially like this part:

 

 

Sleepy Hollow is very much an example of a fantasy-based show that knows it enjoys a large female audience and tailors its material to them, so we’re finding it just a little amazing that they’re going with a “forced pregnancy turns a woman pliable” storyline. It’s just about the worst cliche you could impose on a female character in a fantasy story.

Preach. With the sidelining of Jenny we've lost a big part of the chick-kickassery that I love(d). Abbie's all law and order but Jenny is the Terminator. 

Edited November 12, 2014 by marceline

[BigEasygirl]

The show can kicks rocks with those transparent shipper-baiting Ichabbie crumbs. Not for anymore of that. As has been said, I don't like Crane much at all now (even his hair is terrible). He's been shown to be insensitive, ungrateful, disloyal, generally douchey and not too terribly bright. Not a good look. Poor Tom Mison whom I also still love. He deserves better too.

[savinggrace]

I think it's interesting that Hawley is perceived as "stealing" Jenny's screen time. Really it's Katrina. The Wendigo episode -- and every other episode with Hawley present -- has shown that he can be dropped in with any member of  Team Witness, or all of them, without disrupting the chemistry. He and Jenny have shared screen time without issue. There's no reason why Jenny couldn't have been present in other episodes that contained Hawley except the black hole that is Katrina. The only reason I believe Jenny is sidelined is because the writers shoehorned Katrina into Team Witness and they can't put Jenny and Katrina in the same scene and realistically write the outcome they desire (i.e Katrina overrules Abbie). Imagine if Jenny had been present with Abbie during the ridiculous Deliverance vote or even in the same room in Heartless when Katrina was talking down to Abbie. Things would have gone down differently if Abbie had that sibling alliance. The writers are lazy. They'd rather sideline a character inexplicably than come up with a solution to include her in the storyline.

[phoenics]

IMO, we're overthinking this. Someone suggested it was an attempt to sell the Cranes as the biggest love story, without Tom and Katia ruining their scene with their lack of chemistry and maybe there is some truth to it, but I simply think it was a way to stick it to the Ichabbie shippers. I don't understand the reasoning behind this, because it's been them, who have been doing the bait and switch all this time, but I think they finally decided to focus on the Cranes romance and they don't want the burden of catering to the Ichabbie shippers any longer. Whatever. I think the Cranes are equally awful people and they deserve each other.

Yeah - that was me. When I read an article with the actress who played the Succubus mention that she would play both Abbie and Katrina, I knew that the writers were violating their own Succubus mythology (hidden desires) just to take a swipe at Ichabbie fans by having even Crane's hidden desires be about his wife.

Which is really stupid, btw, since it doesn't go with the Succubus mythology.

IF they had her also throw some Abbie into it - then they intentionally left it ambiguous so they don't have to do anything with that and so they can tell any Ichabbie shippers who "saw Abbie in the Succubus with Crane" that they are just reading into it and seeing things and that Crane ONLY loves Katrina and - you know - it's EPIIIIC.

The writers are truly shooting themselves in the foot. I wonder if they really don't get it - thinking that all they have to do is put Katrina with Crane onscreen and everyone will just love them without any effort on their part? Or is it that they don't understand just how special Ichabbie is? They think they can write an "Ichabbie" scene for Ichatrina and the same magic (or any at all) will just happen?

Do they think Ichabbie is due to their writing? Because the scene with The Bachelor would have worked well with Tom and Nicole - but with Tom and Katia - NOPE!

Poor writers... they think it's them that made Ichabbie great.

It's mind boggling though - any other show would be foaming at the mouth with joy that they had a pairing with so much chemistry (Ichabbie) that they'd be milking it for all it was worth.

I've never seen a show so determined to destroy the chemistry of its leads and replace it with another pair. It's mind boggling.

[Enero]

I thought it was just me. Some men shouldn't have facial hair and I think this dude is one of them. Besides that, he just looks so unclean even sitting at a bar. 

 

Not happy with the episode. Couldn't even get excited about Abbie giving folks the side eye as that is annoyingly passive aggressive. I was happy she finally said her piece. Too bad she essentially took it all back. Also ticked that the writers thought the two dudes deciding who Abbie could have an interest in was something I wanted to see. Not cute. 

 

I'm sick of the Crane drama and Ichabod. I wish we just had a show with Jenny, Irving and Abbie.

 

Me three. Hawley does nothing for me. Even shirtless he looks like a greasy dishrag. He has no charisma and no chemistry with Abbie. Luke and undead Andy were 100 times better than this guy.

 

All I could think of during this episode was Sleepy Hollow doesn't need the Witnesses, it needs Sam and Dean Winchester.

Be still my heart! Now these two are who I'd love to see on the show. They'd fit right in with Abbie and Jenny's badassed-ness. Also they know a thing or two about killing demons. They wouldn't put up with the Crane's crap and both brothers are WAY hotter than Crane and just demolish Hawley in the looks. Abbie and Dean or wait Abbie and Sam, either coupling would be fine by me. :)

[Timetoread]

<quote>I've never seen a show so determined to destroy the chemistry of its leads and replace it with another pair. It's mind boggling.</quote>

I've seen it before. It is happening in the current seasons of not one but two other shows that I watch. Sadly the common denominator seems to be a general and irrational fear of casting a black female alongside a white male lead. Racism is alive and well but I feel that society has evolved enough to accept this. Scandal is ridiculous but one of the most poplar shows on the air with this very pairing. I think they should be brave and follow the chemistry if you are lucky enough to get two actors that have this kind of chemistry.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Timetoread