S05.E05: Self Help

[MDKNIGHT]

"She took herself and her kids away from the one person who fought tooth and nail to protect them, only to get herself/kids slaughtered, makes no sense to me at all."

 

I agree but since these aren't real people they are the mercy of the writer's abilities to make it make sense. So it shows a failure of the writing to make it seem plausible. That being said if I HAD to make sense of it I would go with the concept that Helen after being violated and being unable to stop her daughter from being violated was so in shock that she retreated into a la la land where what was going on JUST IS NOT HAPPENING. MASSIVE DENIAL. Consequently she (a) had to believe that Abe had lost HIS mind because if the rape didn't happen then his killing those guys didn't have a reason (b) felt that she had to get away from where it happened in order to maintain the delusion that the rape never happened © fled from Abe because he's a giant reminder that it DID happen and (d) convinced herself that there weren't any Walkers outside because if your mind can't handle a rape how the heck is it going to handle the dead have risen and are going to eat you. The sum total of it all leading to her blindly fleeing and getting herself and kids killed in a desparate and doomed effort to flee to ostensibly the past, where things were good. Under all that was probably the subconcious wish to end it all so she didn't have to deal with it anymore. I truely believe that if any of that was what the writers wished to convey it could have been done but it just didn't come across in this.

 

Edited November 10, 2014 by HalcyonDays
Quoted the actual quotes for ya! - removed double response

[maczero]

Ok, I do think Eugene is smart. I'm guessing they decide to still take him to DC on the chance he might be able to do something, that last thin thread of hope.

 

Yeah, I don't see that happening.  Even if Eugene thinks he's "smart".  There's no indication that he really has a background pathology or anything related to medicine.  So no I don't him being able to "MacGyver" up a cure.

I totally agree - he was probably the smartest guy working at the comic book store.

That's exactly where I imagine him working. 

 

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if Eugene is well read and is a walking encyclopedia.  It's just that all his knowledge comes from books and very little real world experience.

 

While they were talking in the bus, didn't it sound like Eugene's plan for walker eradication involved nuclear weapons? I had always assumed his cure involved medicine or science.

I assumed he was talking about using a missile or a bomb as some sort of delivery system as bio-weapon against walkers.  If Eugene's a gamer, it kind of makes sense that he would incorporate some kind of weapon into his plan.

 

I call BS on the fire hose kills. Eugene only hit a few of them on the head, the rest got hit in the chest.

I wish the writers could make a script where they show scenes from all three groups.

A few did lose limbs and I believe one was actually split down the middle.

 

You know, that makes sense. Although he is pretty social (talking Tara's ear off as they walked the railroad track), his socializing is still awkward. It makes the whole situation even sadder, really. So far, everyone we've seen with any kind if mental health issues has been a mad dictator.

How can you forget crazy Lizzie?

[Ellaria]

I actually think both episodes worked as solo episodes, in the sense that they built up to strong conclusions. Chopped up material crammed together wouldn't have worked for me. But then I generally enjoyed last week's episode.

 

One of the problems, if you can call it that, is the show has a lot of great characters right now (to me anyway), some of whom are barely seen at the moment. 

 

If it were me I would have waited to introduce Abraham/Eugene/Rosita, if they needed to be introduced at all.

Agree - there was no need to introduce A/E/R for the Terminus story line. They could have held delayed their appearance until this season.

 

The inability to manage compelling story lines for a large cast has been their problem almost from the start. I would have preferred more back story on Tyreese and Sasha than Orange Abe. And I'm always ready for more of Michonne. This show struggles with character development. It seems to be nothing at all or two episodes devoted to The Gov wandering around the countryside.

[editorgrrl]

The quote button and other buttons are not working for me so...

 

Just type [ quote] before the desired text and after (no space).

 

[Mu Shu]

IMO, Eugene's story was never credible and not because of his hair or oddness -- I know quite a few brilliant scientists and engineers who have poor communication and social skills. Where did Eugene do his research? What is his field? Again, where in D.C. was he going to produce this cure? What lab? What materials did he need and where were they going to have to find them?  However, given the ignorance about public health and medical research in the general public, it is probably realistic that it did not occur to anyone to ask these pertinent questions.

 

I will say it on every thread; l going to D.C. is pure craziness. I cannot even imagine how they would get through densely populated northern Virginia alive, much less D.C. 

 

Gale Anne Hurd said on Talking Dead that the earlier walkers are more frail and easier to kill. If that is the case, I would like our survivors to encounter denigrating walkers who are unable to move and attack.

 

I can't believe those sexually repressed prudes were actually considering censoring this episode. A couple weeks ago, a man got his head hacked off with a machete and they want to censor that tame sex scene. Seriously, those people need to pull that stick out.

The answer to your questions?   That's classified.    I hear you, I don't see how Eugene is so smart.  I envision him online pretending to be a "scientist" before the shit hits the fan, and then uses it on a guy dumber than mouse poop to survive.   How is his "smartness" going to help the group?   What does he actually know, and what can he do?    I'm assuming the doctor who sort of be friended Beth is smarter and far more useful.   We now have two adult dead weights if the group gets back together intact.   Who stays, Father Pee Pants or even more useless Eugene?  My money is on Pee Pee.   He can be taught self defense and has social skills. 

[editorgrrl]

The edit button is ALSO not working for me so I can't correct the repitition in my original post. The reason the repetition happened is also because of some wiered technical problem this computer is having with this site. Sorry for the mess.

 

You can report technical problems at Forums > Info > Site Business > Bugs, as well as flag your buggy post & ask a mod to edit it for you.

[JBody]

I get what you're saying Pete Martell, and I liked this week's ep, but last week left something to be desired for me. I think the cast is too big and needs a good pruning, which as it is the way of this show, will happen sooner rather than later.

[Nashville]

IMO, Eugene's story was never credible and not because of his hair or oddness -- I know quite a few brilliant scientists and engineers who have poor communication and social skills. Where did Eugene do his research? What is his field? Again, where in D.C. was he going to produce this cure? What lab? What materials did he need and where were they going to have to find them?  However, given the ignorance about public health and medical research in the general public, it is probably realistic that it did not occur to anyone to ask these pertinent questions.

Although never overtly stated, I think the inference was Eugene was suggesting they head to Fort Detrick.

 

I can't believe those sexually repressed prudes were actually considering censoring this episode. A couple weeks ago, a man got his head hacked off with a machete and they want to censor that tame sex scene. Seriously, those people need to pull that stick out.

 

I thought the censorship suggestion was in relation to what happens to Moobraham's family, rather than his hookup with Rosita.

 

Uh, Rosita?    Should have stayed with Rick's group.   Four single men there, all who would be a better match than the middle aged frat boy bragging to Glenn about "getting some ass".     Poor Glenn,  he seemed as grossed out as I was, and by Glenn I mean the actual actor getting a visual of Mr. Moobs getting  some ass.   Mortifying shit, that was.

Life's general rule is, he who talks the most about it, gets the least. 

Don't know if that applies post-ZA, though.

[Christi]

Geez...my post got buried already! Cows or zombies ? Lol

[Pete Martell]

According to Cudlitz on Twitter, this episode almost never made it to air. If the rumours of this episode being censored are true, then perhaps there was an almost rape scene prior to the death by beans.

That's a big maybe though.

 

I'm not all that surprised. I know people keep saying that Talking Dead has to answer questions because of writing issues, but other than the whole Tyreese and Martin mess, I don't feel like that's often true. Last night was very odd to me.

 

I imagine they had to fight to get the Carl and Rick material on last season, which was vital to both characters (Rick in particular), and now you have a woman and her daughter raped. Most of this can't be shown, and if it was shown, it would be so horrific it would have colored the entire episode.

 

Part of me wishes they'd just given him a new backstory, although I have a feeling Kirkman would have spit nails.

[Nashville]

Geez...my post got buried already! Cows or zombies ? Lol

 

Cows eaten by zombies?

Or... zombie cows?

[Pete Martell]

Uh, Rosita?    Should have stayed with Rick's group.   Four single men there, all who would be a better match than the middle aged frat boy bragging to Glenn about "getting some ass".     Poor Glenn,  he seemed as grossed out as I was, and by Glenn I mean the actual actor getting a visual of Mr. Moobs getting  some ass.   Mortifying shit, that was. 

 

Rick just woke up from a months-long mental breakdown, Tyreese is still mourning his girlfriend, Gabriel...has a long way to go, and Daryl is a very damaged man who is already emotionally involved with two women.

 

Abraham wouldn't be my choice, but Rosita seems to think he's a good lay and a worthy partner, and she also seems more than capable of standing up for herself, so more power to her, I guess.

[Christi]

Cows eaten by zombies?

Or... zombie cows?

The stuff that smelled so bad...kind of looked like a livestock yard..

[Pete Martell]

I get what you're saying Pete Martell, and I liked this week's ep, but last week left something to be desired for me. I think the cast is too big and needs a good pruning, which as it is the way of this show, will happen sooner rather than later.

 

I think we must be in for a cast purge, which sucks for me, as I know most of those I would be fine with losing aren't going anywhere. 

 

I can see why people don't like the change in format. It's a big risk, not just in the sense of viewers not wanting to see only a few characters, but also in that sometimes the episodes in question just aren't that great. 

 

I'm still glad they're making the effort, because I like that they're taking risks (an episode like "The Grove" never could have been made in the first few seasons), and I also feel like we would not be getting any material for anyone outside of Daryl, Rick, Carl, maybe Carol and a few others, if we went back to the seasons 1-3 format. 

 

I know they do have to go back to that at some point, but I hope they do a better job of writing for the group than they did in season 2 and 3.

[Tippi Blevins]

I'm not sure if it was just my TV or what, but during the flashback scenes Abraham's hair did not seem so RED, just kinda brownish, light reddish. When Eugene said "I have an important mission" and the scene cut back to Abraham:suddenly his hair was BRIGHT RED. Then when Abraham learned Eugene did not have the cure, his hair didn't seem so bright. Maybe I just have a cheap TV?

 

I thought I saw the same thing. Maybe Abe and his hair were both suddenly aflame with new purpose, and then dimmed with the horror of realization.

[HalcyonDays]

The edit button is ALSO not working for me so I can't correct the repitition in my original post. The reason the repetition happened is also because of some wiered technical problem this computer is having with this site. Sorry for the mess.

 

No worries MDKNIGHT. I put those quotes in quotes for you, to make it easier to read, and took out the repetition.

 

The quote tags will work also, as editorgrrl said.

[Ocean Chick]

it centred on a female character that isn't Carol (who may as well be a man based on the way she behaves these days)

 

 

 

So this might be better discussed in a thread that's centered on Carol, but I'm intrigued.  How does a woman "act like a man" during the za?  Are they supposed to act differently?  Does Michonne act like a man or a woman with how she behaves on the show?  Should the women be cowering in a corner, waiting for a man to rescue her?  Or does she focus on cooking and cleaning while the men defend the campsite?  Was it Carol rescuing the group by using her brains and daring, making it seem like she was a man?  Enquiring minds want to know!  LOL

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Love Cudlitz, but Duke NukeEm's antics are nails on a chalkboard to my nerves.

Had no issue with the sex scene, didn't like him referring to Rosita in a crude manner.

[Helena Dax]

 

I assumed he was talking about using a missile or a bomb as some sort of delivery system as bio-weapon against walkers.  If Eugene's a gamer, it kind of makes sense that he would incorporate some kind of weapon into his plan.

 The red dust from the original "V" XD

 

 

How does a woman "act like a man" during the za?

 

I was wondering that too and I'm someone who likes Beth.

[Nashville]

I think we must be in for a cast purge, which sucks for me, as I know most of those I would be fine with losing aren't going anywhere. 

 

So you're expecting the church group to have a... Come To Jesus meeting?  :>

[Mu Shu]

Geez...my post got buried already! Cows or zombies ? Lol

LOL!  It looked like blurry stick figures to me.   Really sketchy CGI. 

[bosawks]

"Looks like Abe spilled the beans."

Yeah, that's the thought I had when the camera panned down the cans and corpses of his beat down.

Hand basket, hell, for me...

[Portia]

The recap includes a bright (yet too zoomed out) image of "the rotting hand ranch."

Yup! That's what I saw on my TV screen. And I still have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at.  

[Ellaria]

Yup! That's what I saw on my TV screen. And I still have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at.  

 

Same here. No idea of what I'm looking at or why it was so terrifying.

[SoSueMe]

Same here. No idea of what I'm looking at or why it was so terrifying.

To borrow from Z Nation, maybe a zunami? Huge herd impossible to get around? It was pretty fuzzy on my TV too.

[natyxg]

LOL!  It looked like blurry stick figures to me.   Really sketchy CGI. 

 

They looked like trees to me when I saw it on tv. After looking at the screengrab, they still look like trees, except the ones on the road.

 

They can't just assume that in the middle of things we will figure out what the hell we're supposed to be looking at from the distance. Close ups, people!

[MrHufflepuff]

I'm still lost as to why his wife thought leaving with two young kids was the better option. Was he an abusive husband pre ZA, and seeing him kill five guys with a can of peas was too much? As a parent I though it was just so weird. Your first instinct is defending your young, which Sgt. Slaughter sure did.

 

This is kind of what I thought as well.  That he was an abusive husband.  Maybe they were separated pre-ZA and she had a restraining order against him.  And then the ZA hits, and he tracks her down and kills the survivors she's holed up with in order to rekindle their marriage or something.  Which would explain why she was so horrified upon seeing him.  But, then I come into this thread and it's a completely different back-story then what I imagined.  Oh, well.  I suppose the real backstory is a bit better than my imagined one, since in mine, Abraham is a complete monster, and this way, he's at least got some humanity to him.

[Irishmaple]

Nothing gets me more excited than a giant horde of zombies, so that scene was catnip for me.  Abraham and his crew came up over the hill and there it was, wall-to-wall zombies.  They were distant and fuzzy for me too, so I may have inferred them but, damn, that scene made me happy.

 

ETA: well, maybe a few things get me more excited because if that were true, I might have some issues!

Edited November 11, 2014 by Irishmaple

[editorgrrl]

Last week's episode was far superior in terms of suspense, philosophy and acting, but hey it centred on a female character that isn't Carol (who may as well be a man based on the way she behaves these days) so most TWD fans seem to think the other way.

So this might be better discussed in a thread that's centered on Carol, but I'm intrigued. How does a woman "act like a man" during the za? Are they supposed to act differently? Does Michonne act like a man or a woman with how she behaves on the show? Should the women be cowering in a corner, waiting for a man to rescue her? Or does she focus on cooking and cleaning while the men defend the campsite? Was it Carol rescuing the group by using her brains and daring, making it seem like she was a man? Enquiring minds want to know! LOL

I've taken this to TWD Women: Who's the Bigger Threat - Walkers or Writers?.

Edited November 11, 2014 by editorgrrl

[Ellaria]

They looked like trees to me when I saw it on tv. After looking at the screengrab, they still look like trees, except the ones on the road.

 

They can't just assume that in the middle of things we will figure out what the hell we're supposed to be looking at from the distance. Close ups, people!

 

They looked like trees to me as well. That entire scene was a bit anti-climatic: the camera pulls back for the "big reveal" and half the audience is squinting and thinking, "What is that? Trees? Cows?." Between this scene and the need for night goggles for many other scenes, I shouldn't have to work so hard to figure out what I am watching.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Ellaria Sand

[Lillith]

Love Cudlitz, but Duke NukeEm's antics are nails on a chalkboard to my nerves.

Had no issue with the sex scene, didn't like him referring to Rosita in a crude manner.

Yeah I already didn't love Mr. Moobs, but the whole "piece of ass" thing was just ugh.  Especially from a middle aged man.  If it weren't for the ZA he'd never be able to punch so far above his weight and get a hot young girl who looks like Rosita.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Lillith

[Solid Muldoon]

I have a hard time getting past the distraction of how much Eugene looks like Bill Hicks.

[editorgrrl]

I have a hard time getting past the distraction of how much Eugene looks like Bill Hicks.

I didn't notice before—but now I'll be distracted, too!

[Ronin Jackson]

The whole Eugene thing seemed poorly thought out since he was in the comic books.  The character isn't credible, which isn't of itself a problem, but everyone believes the guy.  The problem was just accentuated in the show, with the hillbilly scientist with a mullet thing being amped up, and more characters taking everything he says as gospel.  I was actually hoping they might find a different twist with the show... like maybe he IS a real scientist who knows something but he dies before he can do anything.  Anyway, it's good the story line is over...

 

After a really strong start to the season, the show is settling back into its usual middling self.  

Edited November 11, 2014 by Ronin Jackson

[Rosiejuliemom]

Has Darryl even told her what happened to Beth? You would think they would at least give us a piece of that conversation.

 

 

I believe Daryl and Maggie discussed Beth while they were in the boxcar in the premiere. If I remember right, Daryl told her that Beth was taken and he tried to follow. Maggie's response was something along the lines of "But she's alive?" It was a brief exchange, but it did happen.

[RedheadZombie]

I took this a bit differently. If she and her children had been raped and then just witnessed her husband, whom we should assume was a kind and good man in the regular world, reduced to a killing machine, then I sort of understand her choice. I'm not sure I would see much point in living in such a violent world, or in subjecting my children to it. I took it as less that she was scared of Abe and more that she was broken by how much he has had to change to live in the ZA. I think she gave up, as opposed to running from him, and I kind of can't blame her.

 

His wife may have "opted out" (I'm not sure she did), but that was a horrible way for her children to die.  In The Road, the wife opted out as her husband begged her not to.  The difference is she left her son with her husband.  I can't think of a more gruesome way for a child to die. 

 

A concentration camp in the middle of Georgia in the USA?  That doesn't make sense. Things are bad, but the ZA didn't allow time for folks to set up concentrations camps. I couldn't see well either. I just assumed a slaughterhouse because of the size of what we were supposed to be looking at.

 

I'm the original poster, not GHOULINA.  I believe I said my mind went there for a flash, not that it was my final impression.  But to be fair, I wouldn't expect cannibal factories, the military to gun down non-infected humans in a hospital, or for the government to bomb Atlanta, yet they all happened in "the middle of Georgia in the USA".  It doesn't take a lot of time to corral and separate people into camps when they're running to you for protection.

 

By the way, I wonder if the vagueness of what they saw is less to due to with poor directing choice, and more to do with saving the money that would be required to show a detailed walker hoard.

[GreyBunny]

They looked like trees to me when I saw it on tv. After looking at the screengrab, they still look like trees, except the ones on the road.

 

They can't just assume that in the middle of things we will figure out what the hell we're supposed to be looking at from the distance. Close ups, people!

 

After staring at the screen for a moment I could tell the stick figures in the fields were moving and wiggling a little but that was about it.  I watched it in regular definition since it saves DVR space (and I have a ton of stuff saved so the drive is nearly full) but I'll watch it again in HD and see if that makes a difference. (Probably not much.)

 

Tara is growing on me too, I like her and hope she stays for a while.  It cracked me up when, after her chat with Eugene in the self-help section, she peeked through the stacks at Abe and Rosita, shook her head, and walked off.  They didn't do anything for me either, honey. 

I was also pleased to see that Rosita had some mechanical knowledge as she knew where the intake was on the fire engine, and, while she's loyal to Abe, she will still stand up to him when he goes too far into Crazytown.  Good for her.  I'm liking her more and more.

Edited November 11, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Raven1707]

 

Looked like a livestock yard....but I couldnt really make it out

 

Only a guess, but I think it might have indeed been a cattle stockyard, which earlier in the apocalypse probably would have attracted walkers. I'm not sure why the walkers would have stayed there once all of the cattle were gone, though. After all, if the walkers were able to find a way into the stockyard, they should have been able to find the way back out.

[GreyBunny]

I thought they were a massive hoarde or a walker haboob that was just traveling through and is on its way south.  I didn't get the impression that they were stuck there.

Edited November 11, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Raven1707]

 

Maggie spent all last season looking for Glenn, the fact that she never mentions her also missing sister seems a little strange. Has Darryl even told her what happened to Beth? You would think they would at least give us a piece of that conversation.

 

They did; in "No Sanctuary" there was an exchange that occurred as a voice-over while the group was still in the boxcar:

Daryl: “Black car, with a white cross painted on it. Tried to follow it. I tried.”

Maggie: “So she’s alive?”

Daryl: “She’s alive.”

 

I didn't get the impression that they were stuck there.

 

It looked to me like there were walkers both in the stockyards and on the road. But you know how it is...watch this show long enough and you start seeing walkers everywhere!

[GreyBunny]

Yeah, they're like fleas.  Giant, undead fleas.

[Raven1707]

 

Many of us have not read and will never read the comic books.

 

Yeah, I have no interest in the comic books at all. And this is why...

 

 

Part of me wishes they'd just given him a new backstory, although I have a feeling Kirkman would have spit nails.

 

Kirkman! (I try to avoid ever speaking his name, but when I do, it's the way Seinfeld used to say "Newman!")

[Bruinsfan]

Either that or she really WAS Amy Winehouse and was so whacked out of her mind she wasn't thinking clearly. 

If it had been, the uncoordinated movements and miasma of alcohol fumes around her would have prevented the walkers from recognizing fresh prey.

[Raven1707]

 

I would like our survivors to encounter denigrating walkers who are unable to move and attack.

 

I suspect that you meant disintegrating, but it might be fun to run into a herd of walkers who've somehow found a non-verbal way to disparage the humans...

Edited November 11, 2014 by Raven1707

[NurseGiGi]

It frustrates me to no end that the writers will one minute have Rick and the Rickettes respond like a well oiled machine and the next do something so stupid and out of character just to further the plot.  As in the whole three stooges plot line.  And for them to so easily take someone at face value the way they did after going through all that crap with the Guv, all the shit that happened on the road that then culminated with Terminus.  And all of this happening within a very short time frame.

 

And I'm just not a fan of devoting whole episodes to certain characters.  It was tolerable last season because I figured one time and done to further develop our main group but I didn't want that to happen again.  That would have been like devoting one whole episode to the Vatos in season one and then having the next episode focus on the camp and fish fry.  I'm invested in Rick and Co and want to see more of the interactions within the group.  And they now have so damn many commercial breaks!  Any momentum that's built is practically destroyed when you only get 5 minutes of show and 5 minutes of ads.

 

Also, I really hate that they divide the show into two mini seasons.  That really pisses me off.

 

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.

[Raven1707]

Just an aside, but I was amused to see that the book Eugene was reading was "The Shape of Things to Come" by H.G. Wells.

[GreyBunny]

I'm not a fan of bottle episodes.  If they need to do some character development, pick two or three characters and divide the hour up into two separate storylines.  Beth's futzing around at the hospital could have been shared with Carol and Daryl trying to track her down, and Team Manboobs could have been split with whatever Camp Dinner Bell was up to. The episode "Chupacabra" did it right. 

 

Just an aside, but I was amused to see that the book Eugene was reading was "The Shape of Things to Come" by H.G. Wells.

 

Maybe Eugene is a cylon. 

Edited November 11, 2014 by GreyBunny

[JBody]

NurseGiGi, I feel your pain.

[lawless]

I liked this episode, but didn't love it.  I few more tweaks in the writing and it would have been better.  But I'll take it.

 

As for the problems -- I agree that Abraham's wife sneaking away with the kids at night was not very logical given their desperate plight and the fact that he eliminated the threat to them -- to the point of it being hard to believe.  Maybe it was just pure, reactionary, irrational panic from all that had happened to them, and she transferred all the fear onto Abraham?  (Interesting parallel to Daryl telling Rick he needed to wipe the blood off his face, even with water in short supply, because Carl could see it, and Abraham's failure to notice the same thing, but Abraham didn't have a Daryl around to clue him in.)  Maybe especially if he'd told her she could trust those guys and that she'd be safe with them?  I don't think she was intending to kill herself and the kids, I think she thought they'd get away, somewhere "safe."  Thin though, unfortunately.  However, Abraham got to me when he put the gun in his mouth.  I felt bad for him.  His past behavior makes a lot more sense when you know how desperate he's been not to think about what happened right before he met Eugene.  However, he's a pretty scary guy to be around -- domineering, irrational, violent.  But on the other hand, he seems to have genuine affection for Rosita, and she for him, and he and Glen had a decent bonding moment -- he's definitely a better man than many our gang has encountered, and his strength is useful.  I hope he can chill out and that they go back and find the others now.  I suppose they could still try to get out of Georgia and head to DC, but it seems like it would be much more dangerous to go to such a heavily populated area on the eastern seaboard.

 

I like Maggie/want to like Maggie, but I wish they would write something for her to acknowledge Beth as a loss to her -- even any indication to Glen that she doesn't want to talk about it (because it's too painful) would go a long way to making her character more believable.  I think all the characters would benefit if they were shown to be traumatized in a subtle way now and then, plus exhausted and malnourished. They are definitely shown to be dirty, and they talk about water and food issues sometimes, but moments of forgetfulness/distant thoughts and so on would go along way to show the trauma, and then make their foolish decisions more understandable -- like believing Eugene at all!

 

I have also come to really like Tara and to want her to make it.  She's kind to characters like Eugene that she doesn't have to be kind to, and she really tried to make amends for the whole Governor thing with everyone.  It was a bad mistake, and a bad lapse into selfishness, but lots of people were duped by "Brian" and she saw it and stopped before she actually shot at anyone, so there's that too. Heaven help me, I like Eugene too, the cowardly little perv.  He can be funny, the actor is enjoyable, and even though he put other people in danger because of their "mission," Abraham would be dead by suicide if he hadn't given him something to live for, so there's that.  Also, if Abraham hadn't spouted off about needing to get to DC, they all would have eaten the meat when they got to Terminus, so thank god for that!  As for the others dying -- I don't know the circumstances so I can't necessarily pin that on Eugene.  After all, Eugene included Bob amongst those that had died "for him" but I thought Bob's death had nothing to do with Eugene and the mission.  And Abraham and Rosita were helpful in defeating the Termites.  Maybe the circumstances of the other people's death really could be pinned to Eugene, but the mere fact that they died while there was a "mission" doesn't make that necessarily so -- people drop on this show like flies for all kinds of reasons.  It makes Eugene untrustworthy, but his actions seem to weigh on his conscience and he seems to want to be better, be honest, and become a contributing member of the group.  I am not so sure how smart he actually is, but these people seem to need all the help they can get.

 

Rosita is interesting -- there's a mind in there, and guts.  If they could manage and interesting back story for her, I would be interested in flashbacks a la Bob.  That makes for a lot of characters on the show, but there's only so much they can do with Rick's angst/savagery, so it's better to me to care about all the characters and to take some breaks now and then.

Edited November 11, 2014 by lawless

[GreyBunny]

Poor Eugene didn't even need the lie (though maybe he did to keep Abraham from killing himself in that moment).  He does know how to do stuff and figure things out.  He figured out the firehose (though the truck needed to be running to get water pressure) and he used some wire and a battery to start the fire in the library.  He might not have walker killing skills but he knows a lot of nerdy little science class tricks that can be helpful and make life easier in other ways.  He did have value, he just didn't know it.

Edited November 11, 2014 by GreyBunny