S05.E03: Four Walls And A Roof

[ghoulina]

If I'm remembering correctly, when they left Morgan he was up and about checking his booby traps. The three of them walked past him and Carl said something I can't remember as they walked past.

 

Oh okay, I didn't remember that. Thank God for these boards, because my horrible memory is always failing me!

[Rosiejuliemom]

Maybe it was Martinez?

 

 

Oh man, that would be interesting. On one hand, I would like to see that family again. On the other, as of now, I can pretend that they are all alive and well somewhere safe. Especially since they did the smart thing and left Camp Dinner Bell.

 

When Sasha was getting ready to take care of Bob, did anyone else get the feeling that she was going to turn him into a "pet"? Just something about the way she was holding the knife by his wrist made me think that she was getting ready to cut off his hands and then go to work on his mouth.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Rosiejuliemom

[TexasChic]

As for who Daryl told to come out, it could have been anyone. Even if it was Carol or Beth, he could have scouting ahead to make sure the coast was clear. But I think it was someone else. Maybe it's the one eyed dog!!! I've been waiting for him to return!

[Adam]

Because of the the callback to withering Jim, bitten in season 1, maybe Rick's shovel work was a nod to Jim's prescience, when he unsettled Shane and others by inexplicably digging several graves.

[ParadoxLost]

I'm starting to think all the vagueness with describing/asking what happened to Beth was solely to keep everyone from making an immediate connection to Daryl/Carol taking off after a car with Beth so they could put Maggie on the bus without her looking [as] bad.

 

Its like shows not asking the obvious question.

[HalcyonDays]

Tainted Meat is now not only my rally cry but the name of my band that I'm going to start..

 

Lyrics for your song: Don't eat me please, I cannot stand the way you season me....

 

What the hell have you people made me do??

[kikismom]

Soooo, who do you think it could be?

 

I wonder if:

They will show the Beth scenes first...ending with Carol bringing her body, or

 

Morgan...with some severed heads or something freaky or

 

MORALES! Who Daryl would know...only the dude has changed in some way that would make Daryl unsure if it's good or bad that he's back.

[Pete Martell]

Oh man, that would be interesting. On one hand, I would like to see that family again. On the other, as of now, I can pretend that they are all alive and well somewhere safe. Especially since they did the smart thing and left Camp Dinner Bell.

 

When Sasha was getting ready to take care of Bob, did anyone else get the feeling that she was going to turn him into a "pet"? Just something about the way she was holding the knife by his wrist made me think that she was getting ready to cut off his hands and then go to work on his mouth.

 

Morales was the CDB guy with the family. Martinez was the Governor's henchman, last seen in a walker pit.

 

I was mostly terrified that Bob was going to turn and bite Sasha, and that her having an emotional attachment would be her demise. I held my breath there.

[TexasChic]

No, he wouldn't. Maybe it was Martinez? LOL

 

Oh okay, I didn't remember that. Thank God for these boards, because my horrible memory is always failing me!

 

 

Same here! I don't remember who Martinez was. 

[kikismom]

Oh man, that would be interesting. On one hand, I would like to see that family again. On the other, as of now, I can pretend that they are all alive and well somewhere safe. Especially since they did the smart thing and left Camp Dinner Bell.

 

When Sasha was getting ready to take care of Bob, did anyone else get the feeling that she was going to turn him into a "pet"? Just something about the way she was holding the knife by his wrist made me think that she was getting ready to cut off his hands and then go to work on his mouth.

Yeah...Martinez was the Governor's henchman! The Latino family from the quarry was the Morales family.

[peach]

This episode just didn't do it for me.  Last week felt dragged out, and Bob got bitten because they were doing something hard to believe, namely sloshing around in chest deep, opaque water full of active zombies.  This week, every scene and conversation seemed twice as long as necessary, too much talking, Tyrese and Abraham both being generally unbearable IMO, no reason for Abraham and Co to leave early with Maggie and Glenn once the Termites were dispatched, etc., and I just don't find it that believable that Maggie & Glenn would leave the group so easily. 

 

I appreciated Bob's scenes, and I was sad for him, and I was glad to see Rick take out Gareth with the machete as promised.  Also enjoyed everything with Sasha, and before this, I didn't care either way about her.  But there was too much blah surrounding those things.  For the first time in 5 seasons, I am losing interest.

 

Edited October 27, 2014 by peach

[raven]

The actor playing Father Gabriel did a good job here.  

 

I wonder if the Martin thing will be addressed?  He looked a little beat up but Sasha killed him & he was dumped so how would Carol know about it, I'm not even sure Tyreese recognized him..  I don't want Tyreese to have lied to Carol about that (actually I don't think he did) but it doesn't make him look very smart either.  I did like how he was with Sasha and that he got it done with Bob.

 

If next week is Beth-centric then no hot Rick slashing up threats to the family? Bummer.

Edited October 27, 2014 by raven

[mmecorday]

 

Daryl looked like he brought someone, but he was not feeling good about what the reaction would be, yet he said come on out...like it was Quasimodo or something.

"This is my other brother, Burl. Dudn't he look like the snowman from 'Rudolph?' That's why we called him that."

[Pete Martell]

Sometimes I worry I'm losing what's left of my vision. This episode seemed so dark. I watched it on a somewhat old TV so maybe that doesn't help. 

[ParadoxLost]

This episode just didn't do it for me.  Last week felt dragged out, and Bob got bitten because they were doing something hard to believe, namely sloshing around in chest deep, opaque water full of active zombies.  This week, every scene and conversation seemed twice as long as necessary, too much talking, Tyrese and Abraham both being generally unbearable IMO, no reason for Abraham and Co to leave early with Maggie and Glenn once the Termites were dispatched, etc., and I just don't find it that believable that Maggie & Glenn would leave the group so easily. 

 

Abraham agreeing to wait because Tara, Glenn, and Maggie agreed to go with him if they did made zero sense...because Glenn, Maggie, and Tara are not Rick, Daryl, Carol, or Michonne.

[Portia]

I've always been pulling for Sasha because of my personal connection to the actress, but MAN I'm happy that they're making her more interesting! She's developing her BS detection skills--witness her recent interactions with Mullet and Gabe--and she made the controversial and unexpected decision to go seek revenge rather than passively sit by dying Bob's side. And oh yeah, she exacted some pretty brutal justice on those Termites! Holy cow. I was glad, though, that she ended up getting to be with Bob at the end after all.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Portia

[lulee]

One bonus point to Glenn for the callback to Jim.

[kelnic86]

I don't think Daryl's with Carol or Beth judging from the look on his face. If it was Carol, what would be the point in keeping us in suspense? We already know he was with her before. Beth is who knows where. I doubt he could find her within a day like that. I just assume whoever is with him is connected to Beth's storyline somehow, seeing as he's the only one that's even bothering to look for her. Maybe it was the guy in the black cross car?

Edited October 27, 2014 by kelnic86

[natyxg]

 

 

Same here! I don't remember who Martinez was. 

 

Martinez and his family were in season one. When Rick and Co decide to go to the CDC they decide to go elsewhere. I don't remember where. A military base, maybe?

[TexasChic]

I just realized it must have been Tara's idea to have most of the group leave and then circle back. She said, "I have an idea," then Abraham argued with Rick, then Maggie and Glen agreed to go to DC if they would stay and help.

[Iguessnot]

Father Gabriel's story was malarkey (bad writing). The windows were easily accessible and if someone could carve warnings into the woodwork, they could pry open the shutters and enter the church.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Iguessnot

[peach]

Abraham agreeing to wait because Tara, Glenn, and Maggie agreed to go with him if they did made zero sense...because Glenn, Maggie, and Tara are not Rick, Daryl, Carol, or Michonne.

Right?  Or when Tara agreed to go first, like that's gonna make some kind of difference?  Everything about Abraham and Eugene, especially tonight, just feels stupid and contrived.  Rick's evolution and the rest of the badass crew is worth watching, but the other half of the show is nonsense that doesn't fit at all.  IMO, of course.

Edited October 27, 2014 by peach

[lulee]

Father Gabriel's story was malarkey {bad writing}. The windows were easily accessible and if someone could carve warnings into the woodwork, they could pry open the shutters and enter the church.

And if they were torn apart by walkers, it seems awfully convenient that Gabriel was able to bury them all, getting nary a scratch.

I guess time will tell if it's meaningful or if it's just sloppy.

Edited October 27, 2014 by lulee

[nodorothyparker]

Bob went out as well as he reasonably could under the circumstances, even if I was doing a bit of eye rolling there at the end when he was proclaiming Rick A Good Person.  Has he seen some of the stuff Rick's been up to lately?  Rick's not a villain but he's definitely getting darker and more feral.  Still, Lawrence gave the character a phenomenal exit so kudos for that.

 

The episode did have some nice moments, like Glenn remembering Jim and reminding us that he's a season one character.  But much of the rest of it read like a sorting of characters who can leave my screen now never to return.  Everyone on the bus can go because nothing about the decision to head out when they did or even who should go made any sense whatsoever.  The comic trio still come across like people who wandered in from a different show and won't be missed.  It's amusing Tara thinks she's a huge asset at this point, and Glenn and Maggie just confirmed that they won't even be a part of the promised to be tedious "Where's Beth?" story, so what's the point?

 

The previews for next week already have me wanting to skip it.  I don't care about Beth and never will.  I'm now actively resentful that this will be taking time from characters I do care about and actors who can actually act.

 

Gabriel's story about locking his congregation out might have been at least marginally compelling had we not seen the Termites pop the lock and open the door in about 5 seconds.  Apparently his parishioners were as weak and inept as he was.

[Pete Martell]

Abraham agreeing to wait because Tara, Glenn, and Maggie agreed to go with him if they did made zero sense...because Glenn, Maggie, and Tara are not Rick, Daryl, Carol, or Michonne.

 

He barely knows any of those four. He knows Glenn and Tara, he knows Tara is incredibly loyal, he knows Glenn is predictable and a kind, honorable man. He also knows those two (and Maggie to a degree) are likely to go along with what he wants.

[shanndee]

You are laying into Maggie unfairly and totally misrepresenting how she has been portrayed on screen. Maggie and Glenn have been one of the best tv couples. They are both insanely bad assed together and apart. They have saved each other as well as risked their lives for others in the group. Gimple has not given them much to do and having them ignore both Hershel and Beth has been an oversight, but this does not mean that Maggie should go.

 

I agree. Glenn and Maggie have been strong as a team and as individuals. They have both performed selfless acts for others. And, please, lets not ignore that being in a marriage does alter your relationships with others. Your spouse is your foremost concern. If he/she isn't "first" in your life, the relationship doesn't stand much of a chance.

 

Anyway, add me to the list of people who think Carol was waiting for the "all clear" from Daryl before she leaves the protection of the woods with an injured Beth.

 

Poor Bob. I thought he had been bitten last week, and the Termites eating his flesh (ugh!) would lead to their infection. I guess that is a moot point now! Still, I was just starting too like Bob, so of course he had to go :(

[natyxg]

Father Gabriel's story was malarkey (bad writing). The windows were easily accessible and if someone could carve warnings into the woodwork, they could pry open the shutters and enter the church.

 

Martin just broke the door like it was nothing, and in they were. The first thing I thought was how come his congregation didn’t do that?

Edited October 27, 2014 by natyxg

[Pete Martell]

 

Gabriel's story about locking his congregation out might have been at least marginally compelling had we not seen the Termites pop the lock and open the door in about 5 seconds.  Apparently his parishioners were as weak and inept as he was.

 

The Termites were probably expert at this type of thing. Rick and the group also didn't want to make it too difficult for them to get in. And they weren't in shock over being attacked by walkers and seeing their friends and family being torn apart.

[bentley]

We finally get to meet Albert! *ahem*  RIP Albert.

 

 

 

Good on Rick, Michonne and Abraham for taking out those parasites. What I didn't like - the somewhat judgemental looks by Maggie, Glen et all. Please. You should know better by now.

 

Yep. Also, I thought it was pretty forebearing of Rick  to avoid an "I told you so" moment about finishing off the Termites to begin with.

 

I thought the phrasing of some of the gang's last words to Bob were callbacks to what the Termite said in last season's finale. Something about taking them in and becoming a part of them only making them stronger.

 

Love the characterization of Michonne and Father Gabriel at the end. Suspicious noise in the woods...Michonne gets up to investigate, weapon at the ready. Father Gabriel bolts inside the church.  Oh Father...why don't you pray for some cojones?

[natyxg]

The Termites were probably expert at this type of thing. Rick and the group also didn't want to make it too difficult for them to get in. And they weren't in shock over being attacked by walkers and seeing their friends and family being torn apart.

 

The congregation called the walkers attention by screaming at Gabriel, so I guess they were there a while before the walkers came. Yet no one thought to break the door, apparently.

[Pete Martell]

Right?  Or when Tara agreed to go first, like that's gonna make some kind of difference? 

 

It tells him he has someone he can control. I don't think he really cares about having these bad-ass people helping him. I think he just wanted to go to DC and whoever could go with him, especially if they don't make a fuss, would be welcome. If anything I wonder how much he even wanted someone like Rick with a hard head.

 

Abraham is the weakest part of the show at this point (for me) - it's not even close. I keep hoping I will find a reason to care. The note he left for Rick was a good start. I hope we see more of that side of him and less of the bluster. 

 

And losing that stupid mustache and Pippi Longstocking dye job would help.

[TexasChic]

When Gareth is naming off all the people he knows are in the church, the camera is showing each person as he says their name. And it even happens to Judith! Her expression is so funny because it looks like she's thinking, "Don't say my name, don't say my name. Oh crap, he said my name!"

[nodorothyparker]

Oh and because it's on on the rebroadcast right now, did the Termites seriously think they were going to be able to negotiate any kind of compromise either with the group in the office or with Rick and Company?  Once you've set your bar as eating people, there really isn't any room for any middle ground.

[Pete Martell]

The congregation called the walkers attention by screaming at Gabriel, so I guess they were there a while before the walkers came. Yet no one thought to break the door, apparently.

 

It mostly depends on who they were. The woman in the photo, the one who was also in the water as a walker, seemed (just going by the photo) very meek. I can see people panicking instead of thinking of what to do. 

 

It's one of those things which sounds like a cool, traumatic backstory, but doesn't make a ton of sense when you think about it, but I'm willing to wave it off.

[Madding crowd]

As soon as we saw Gareth pop the church door open I wondered how an entire congregation couldn't get in. I wish they had a more compelling story for Father Gabriel. If he was locked in all that time where did he get water? Where did he go to the bathroom? It just does't compute for me.

 

As soon as Judith starting crying I knew we would get posts about MASH and/or doing away with her; but those guys would have been in that room in a minute anyway. JMO, but I think she is worth saving. Especially since walkers seem so easy to kill now, including newly dead Bob, who seemed to have a really squishy skull.

 

I think Rick went overboard with the violence and could have shot them each with one bullet. Turning yourself into a rage filled feral creature is almost as bad as being too peaceful and calm. Acting rational and get rid of threats in the most efficient way is truly the way to go, but I get it Rick is only human after all.

Daryl was acting odd when he popped out of the woods and I almost thought he was drugged or disoriented because he just looked like he didn't know who he was talking to. it is intriguing trying to find out who is with him; I actually do hope its Beth because I don't want to drag that story on for too long (I also am kind of neutral on Beth).

 

So long Bob, you were an interesting character even if we never knew all your secrets.

[peach]

 Glenn and Maggie just confirmed that they won't even be a part of the promised to be tedious "Where's Beth?" story, so what's the point?

 

I am more invested in what happened to Beth than Maggie is.  For three full episodes now, we have had long, drawn out conversations, yet no time at all for Daryl to maybe take 30 seconds and discuss Beth with Maggie.  Last season it was reasonable for Maggie to assume Beth didn't make it out of the prison, but now she KNOWS that Beth is alivem but it's not worth a mention, even though they're devoting the next episode to it.  And right, what's the point if Maggie and Glenn are moving on? 

Also, Tyrese doesn't kill the guy in the cabin, who comes back to wreak havoc on Bob, and let's just skip that, too.  It's okay that you're a giant baby, Tyrese, who can't get rid of a man who was threatening to break Judith's neck, that's not a liability at all.

[ParadoxLost]

When Gareth is naming off all the people he knows are in the church, the camera is showing each person as he says their name. And it even happens to Judith! Her expression is so funny because it looks like she's thinking, "Don't say my name, don't say my name. Oh crap, he said my name!"

 

What was with Gareth suddenly knowing everyone's name.  When they were at Terminus it was Archer, Samurai, etc.  Is the difference between Terminus and Hunter that they want to know where the meat comes from.

[RedheadZombie]

But if it's Carol helping Beth (which is my hope), behind Daryl, then he's giving the all-clear that there aren't walkers or other threats in front of them. Daryl looked kind of banged up like they had a tough time back. So maybe he was just weary.

 

My DVR cut off before next week's preview, but sweet baby Jesus, grant me the patience to endure the Beth-centric episode that's obviously coming.  And please, dear Lord, limit it to one episode.  You didn't do this with the governor, even after I asked nicely.

 

I think the show thinks it's being clever by trying to create suspense.  They're probably going to do a parallel storyline, as they did with the governor.  As predicted upthread, I assume Carol and Beth will walk out of the woods.

[nodorothyparker]

Also, Tyrese doesn't kill the guy in the cabin, who comes back to wreak havoc on Bob, and let's just skip that, too.  It's okay that you're a giant baby, Tyrese, who can't get rid of a man who was threatening to break Judith's neck, that's not a liability at all.

 

This really bugs as well.  It would seem to be rather important for someone to know that Tyreese couldn't finish a man who was going to break a baby's neck.  These people need to know not to trust him to have their back before they get in a situation where he gets someone killed.

[queenanne]

Is there any significance to the Bible chapters and verses on the church wall?

 

"Significant", may be stretching it, but set design was clearly having a little fun:

 

Ezekiel 37:7:  "So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I was prophesying, there was a noise, a rattling sound, and the bones came together, bone to bone."

Matthew 27:52: "and the tombs broke open."

Revelations 9:6:  "During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them."

Luke 24:5:  "In their fright the women bowed down with their faces to the ground, but the men said to them, "Why do you look for the living among the dead?"

 

If it's not just a fun little lagniappe, Gabriel has clearly been constructing thematic guilt sermons to preach, if he'd only opened the doors to the congregation.

[callmebetty]

I love Judith! That little girl's reactions are priceless. I have no doubt Rick told her to cry just at that moment so as to distract the Termites.

[Armchair Critic]

Sometimes I worry I'm losing what's left of my vision. This episode seemed so dark. I watched it on a somewhat old TV so maybe that doesn't help.

 

I feel your pain. I try to dim the lights in the house to help me see the tv better but it doesn't help that much.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Armchair Critic

[Valny]

If you asked me about Beth before last season's finale I would have said I couldn't care less about her character, but now after seeing those previews tonight, I really want to know what the hell is her story!

 

I'm still up in the air about who Daryl told to come out. Way to cliffhanger us show!

Edited October 27, 2014 by Valny

[lulee]

My DVR cut off before next week's preview, but sweet baby Jesus, grant me the patience to endure the Beth-centric episode that's obviously coming.  And please, dear Lord, limit it to one episode.  You didn't do this with the governor, even after I asked nicely.

 

I think the show thinks it's being clever by trying to create suspense.  They're probably going to do a parallel storyline, as they did with the governor.  As predicted upthread, I assume Carol and Beth will walk out of the woods.

My fellow redhead, we prayed separately for the show to limit the Guv-centric shows. Maybe if we form a prayer circle, it will really work this time. How about next Sunday at 8:50 Eastern time? And don't forget about Daylight Saving Time ending Sunday at 2AM.

Edited October 27, 2014 by lulee

[Elais]

i didn't have much problem with Glenn and Maggie leaving the group that easily.  I think the shocked looked on their faces after seeing Rick and the others execute the cannibals caused them to lose faith that they are with the right group.  I don't think they are happy to be going with Abraham and the others, but they might figure they could just as easily ditch everyone and find their own way as a couple.

[editorgrrl]

I wonder who Daryl brought back. I don't think its Carol.

I think it's Carole, but the promo monkeys're stringing us along. It's not Morgan—his scene was a flash forward. (The tell is the kudzu on the Sanctuary sign that Rick defaced.)

Perhaps it's Beth (with or without Carole), and we'll get flashbacks showing where she's been. Timey whimey!

[peach]

This really bugs as well.  It would seem to be rather important for someone to know that Tyreese couldn't finish a man who was going to break a baby's neck.  These people need to know not to trust him to have their back before they get in a situation where he gets someone killed.

 

Exactly.  Apparently, it's supposed to be significant that Tyrese left him alive, but the audience seem to be the only people who know about it.  I don't get it.  Especially in an episode about Father Gabriel cowardly locking people out to die.  A coward is just as dangerous as an aggressor.

Edited October 27, 2014 by peach

[Pete Martell]

This really bugs as well.  It would seem to be rather important for someone to know that Tyreese couldn't finish a man who was going to break a baby's neck.  These people need to know not to trust him to have their back before they get in a situation where he gets someone killed.

 

Chad Coleman said on Talking Dead last week that he (or Tyreese, I'm not sure) thought the guy was dead. The whole thing confuses me, as it wasn't brought up this week. Clearly the idea in this episode is that Tyreese has started realizing when you have to kill people. It's just that they could have brought up Martin and didn't.

 

I don't think he's a danger to the group, I just want some explanation because otherwise it's like the show decided they really liked the actor so they'd have him around a little longer with no explanation.

[islandgal140]

Aww, when Michonne saw and then lifted up her katana I actually broke out in song and started singing Reunited by Peaches and Herb

Reunited and it feels so good

Reunited 'cause we understood

There's one perfect it

And, sugar, this one is it

We both are so excited

'Cause we're reunited, hey, hey

Another great episode. I know we are only 3 episodes in but the pacing has been fantastic. All 3 has had me on tenderhooks. However, looks like next week we are in danger of hitting a brick wall with Beth, Girl Interrupted. The one interesting thing is that it seems to be that she is in a city in perhaps a medical building so there's that.

Glad to see that the last of the Terminites have been quickly and painfully dispatched. I fully expected Gareth to be around much longer. I actually thinking they could have squeezed 1-2 more episodes out of the character but I ain't mad that they didn't. He was around long enough to grow to hate him, but not so long that he wore out his welcome and become the height of tedium (looking at you Governor). The show's use of him was especially effective because it was a good death and they didn't have him hang around so long that it would make the group look really stupid and dumb.

When the camera held that shot of the group walking into the woods and grew into a wider shot and then the Terminites out of the woods and upon the church, I screamed. When Gareth walked into that church and Judith's name actually crossed his lips, especially after that damn cub/bear story, I was infuriated. I knew his has was not long for this world when the camera panned to the red handle of his knife I acted like a damn fool in my front room.

Glenn, Maggie, Tara and Tyreese's WTF faces at the brutality of the deaths of the Terminites at the hands of Rick and the others did not go unnoticed by me. Interesting.

One thing that didn't make a lick of sense is Gareth in his opening monologue talking to Bob and knowing for a fact that Carol was the one who killed his mom. How in the world would he have known that? There was no one in the room but Carol, the mom and then the walkers that Carol let in to feast by candlelight. Terminus was bedlam then. Carol came in like a damn ninja. That place didn't know what, let alone who hit them. Gareth was too busy doing other shit and then we saw him get shot on the docks by Rick so it is not like he had time to hear the dying words of his mom, which were probably just screams anyway.

[peach]

i didn't have much problem with Glenn and Maggie leaving the group that easily.  I think the shocked looked on their faces after seeing Rick and the others execute the cannibals caused them to lose faith that they are with the right group.  I don't think they are happy to be going with Abraham and the others, but they might figure they could just as easily ditch everyone and find their own way as a couple.

 

Then they are better off going with a group that thinks it's better to leave cannibals to kill other unsuspecting people. 

 

They would be dead on a Termite grill if it weren't for the murderous Carol and Rick.  They would have been dead in Woodbury if it weren't for Rick.  They've depended fully on each other since the very beginning, but a machete attack of the most gruesome, evil people who murder and eat children was so offensive for them, they have to leave with annoying strangers.  Good luck, Carl and Judith.  Nice knowing you, Daryl and Carol.