S03.E03: Corto Maltese

[fantique]

Also, that speech at the end about the jacket making her feel like Sara was alive was the worst.  I won't even blame Katie Cassidy; that was just awful writing.  I'm not sure if it was acting, or if Ollie's "WTF?" reaction was Stephen Amell being like "Did our writers get taken over by monkeys with typewriters?"

ROTFLMAO, that was great. The writers are making puzzling choices. Colour me confused. 

 

And I also don't think Laurel was a bitch to Felicity. If anything I was taken aback by Felicity being sort of rude to Laurel with the "Are we favor friends? Are we even friends"...Who says that to someone? Especially Felciity who is usually Miss. Nice.  

 

Umm how did Laurel now Felicity was in a meeting with her boss? And considering Felicity is a semi-superhero/Oracle-light, calling her out of the blue isn't far fetched.

Not to rehash the discussion as I am late to the party but Felicity being "Miss Nice" is not really accurate. She does nice things because she prefers to be positive but she is also blunt and has no filter. Calling her that maybe means that you haven't payed much attention to the character (which is fine) so IDK how to not be dismissive but basically, she has shown many times that she is not a doormat. If she has the balls to say to her boss that he can't fire her then I don't think she is going to take kindly to a non-Arrow team member calling her out of the blue without so much as a hello and just saying "I need a favour" without asking if she's available. She also has shown to be cranky when under pressure, her gadgets are tinkered with or when her skills are doubted so no, she is NOT Miss nice.

 

Laurel should know better than to call someone during business hours and expect them to do her bidding. Also she had already ID'ed the guy so it was just a matter of finding the dude which she has the professional authority to ask of someone in her department or ask the police people a favour. 

WRT (don't remember who said that it would have been received differently had it been Roy) if it was someone else. First of all using Roy as an example is a bad idea because most have been dismissive of his character and are just starting to remember he exists on a consistent basis. So most people would have torn him a new and asked what the hell did he think he was doing especially because what Laurel is doing right now is the equivalent of Roy putting himself in danger last year stalking the Arrow. At least with Roy there is a seemingly familial-like bond between them and he looks up to her. With Laurel she literally only started acting like Felicity is in the room when in a scene with her.

 

Of course, Oliver still is hiding stuff from Thea and Diggle stupidly encouraged that.  Still, good work by both actors and I always like when Diggle has more to do.

Yeah... I do not appreciate Diggle giving bad advice. I guess he was saying that Oliver should not overwhelm her but that was weird.

 

The "you never quit Argus" stuff will lead to interesting storylines for Lyla and Dig - it also makes me curious how Oliver managed to break away from them post-Hong Kong.    

I am thinking this will be a parallel later in the season when they show Oliver getting his freedom while Lyla is dealing with being stuck with A.R.G.U.S

 

Corto Maltese recap

 

I'll just keep posting these because this person makes me laugh if no one minds.

http://jemmmasimmons.co.vu/post/100719908585

 

Please do, these are a delight.

 

Like, imagine if that guy, instead of being an asshole, had disarmed her, taken her hat thing off, and then pressed charges for battery.  Hell, if he got the right lawyer, he could probably still charge her for battery and claim that he had to disable her for self defense, since she attacked him in an ally without provocation.   

Instead, we have her believing in a magic jacket and making confusing analogies about fire.

Honestly, I actually thought that he was making a deposition to file a complaint and then I realised what Quentin had done. So yeah not only this was incredibly stupid but it was a HORRIBLE writing choice. It would have been a thousand times better if Laurel was walking around looking pissed, trying to clear her head and she saw him mistreating his girlfriend and intervened. It would have been heroic and badass even if she had ended up with the same injuries. I would have been left with a feeling of "Whoa, that didn't end well but good job Laurel". I actually looked away and FF'ed it because that was brutal.

Also that fire analogy is terrible, they should call what it is "rage". Why do they have to make it sound so melodramatically OTT and cringeworthy it makes you roll your eyes at a legitimate reaction to a loved one's death. Stop invalidating Laurel please writers. Just stop. If we can't have Sara let her sacrifice not be in vain. I agree with whoever said that actually the disillusion that would force Laurel on the streets and the rest of the show's D.R.A.M.A! could easily have happened without Sara's death.

Edited October 23, 2014 by fantique

[El Seed]

Now that it's mentioned, Laurel in the hospital would have been the perfect time to tell Quentin about Sara. I mean, it would have been manipulative as hell too, but it probably would have garner her massive sympathy from Quentin, and prevented him from blowing a gasket (or his heart) right then and there.

 

 

And if Quentin did have heart problems from Laurel telling him about Sara, he was at the best location to receive medical attention. Christ, just tell him already. There's no good time to find out your child died, so waiting for the stars to align or some shit is not a kindness. He should be allowed to grieve and find closure, properly this time, and hiding the truth from him (and Dinah) prevents that. Contrived writing for an inconsistent character; it must be a Wednesday.

[Password]

I actually really enjoyed this episode. I adored that Felicity got the corner office now she's master of the universe. I even enjoyed Ray. @10Eleven12 mentioned that BR toned Ray down and I cannot agree more. He reminded me of season 1 Felicity. I think even Felicity wanted to put a hand on his shoulder to calm down that ramble. Interesting interesting interesting about Felicity's "long stories". I really don't think Ray knew about those plans at all. Although good on BR for that split second change in facial expression that made him look super...angry/creepy/I don't know? Good stuff.

Oliver. Jonas. Queen. I'm going to go out and say this whole not talking thing in relation to Felicity is annoying the snot out of me. Why is he acting like such a dick? I don't understand, it's like Felicity was the one who decided to be the Arrow and leave his feelings in the dust. The distance has gone too far. Stop show. Sit down and talk like the normally mature adults you are with each other. When he told Thea "And if we're not together...then we've not even really alive." I immediately thought hmm he should say this to Felicity. But anyway.

Oliver and Thea were beautiful this episode. Finally Oliver has decided Thea needs his attention! I really hope this is the start of a great brother and sister relationship between them.

Laurel. Sigh. I don't have much to say about Laurel because I don't watch the show to watch her anger being worked out. I enjoyed Corto and Felicity as CEO but Laurel I just can't find it in me to really care. I am a terrible person for laughing when Laurel got knocked out...but it was comedy, I am sure. However when Thea was abused by her daddy I was genuinely horrified. That man! When Laurel was talking about being so angry at the AA meeting it really made me hate how the EPs made Sara and Laurel rehash that awful Ollie storyline in season 2b. They had so many issues between them that they could've come to an understanding and real love for one another that wouldn't make us roll our eyes at her "anger". The longer she keeps this secret from Lance the more it'll hurt him. Oh Laurel.

Thea and Merlyn. Colour me surprised about that development because I really thought there'd be more nefarious reasons behind Thea going back to Starling City. But I am super excited for Thea's story because I thought not only did Barrowman bring it, but Willa Holland owned every one of her scenes. So mature. And I adored how mature Thea and Roy were (makes me want a certain someone else to come to such realisations). Roy looking tired. Interesting. I wonder if they'd go down the Roy doing drugs story line.

Diggle and Lyla! It warms my heart when two people who have been through a world of experiences can come together and enjoy themselves. Baby Digglette, Diggle being super daddy, giving Oliver advice (although I would say Oliver should ease Thea into it, not keep lying). He's literally superman. It's so wonderful.

Loved the action sequence in Corto! The boys doing what they know best was awesome. Haha you can't keep Felicity out of the action for looooong.

ETA: I realise laughing at Laurel after she was knocked out is bad taste. However I laughed at the ridiculousness of the situation that had Laurel attack a known woman beater (with absolutely no back up), with a bat, and then get her butt handed to her. Did she expect him to cower or did she really think she'd scare him? I don't know but it was dumb.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Limbo

[some1105]

I could bet a $1 million dollars if that was Roy, no one would comment. I'm sticking with that.

 

I'll put up my hand on this.  I wouldn't have commented negatively on Roy making that call, and would have been surprised if Felicity had the same reaction to Roy making exactly the same request in exactly the same tone at exactly the same time as Laurel did in this episode.  But not because I have some machismo blindspot.  Because Roy and Felicity spent 90% of their scenes together last week clinging to each other.  It stuck out to me--in the wake of the premiere, it was nice to be reminded that, regardless of whether Oliver and Felicity are sucking face, they both have Diggle and Roy to rely on and to support in turn.

 

Roy and Felicity are both on Team Arrow.  They have both made great personal sacrifices for the team's goals.  So, no.  I don't think that if Roy calls Felicity in a panic and asks for information that Felicity will stop to ask if they are "favor friends?  Friends?"  They're comrades in arms.  

 

At this point, to Felicity, Laurel is Sara's peremptory sister.  She's Oliver's peremptory ex.  She's an acquaintance that Felicity has the great good nature to accommodate because she knows that Laurel has recently experienced a loss.  She's a DA who doesn't have the wherewithal to do her own googling, phone tracing, or, for chrissakes, warrant checking, even though she's the only one other than Quentin who doesn't have to hack anything to track down a suspected criminal.  But she's not Felicity's friend.

[Slovenly Muse]

Ok, I have to say, I have never really disliked Laurel the way many in the fandom seem to. In fact, I've always been mostly indifferent to her. No animosity, no exasperation that she takes time away from other storylines, not even any frustration at her plots never going anywhere. She's always been an integral part of the show and I have always accepted that without negative feelings.

 

Until tonight.

 

I'd always hoped the writers, who seem to be pretty well on top of what is working for the fans and what is not, had seen that Laurel's becoming Black Canary was not going to work. But I was wrong, and it sucks. I really disliked Laurel tonight, and not because she represented some sort of threat to Oliver/Felicity. Come on, Sara was a much bigger threat to O/F and I LOVED her. And that's the problem. Sara was an amazing character. She was a brilliant, strong, angst-ridden, heroic defender of the innocent (slash perpetual combatant of her own demons, slash deadly assassin), who had undergone the requisite "crucible" of heroic transformation and become an extremely likeable and powerful character (not to mention she had a real, organic friendship with Felicity) who more than adequately filled the role of Black Canary. There was no reason that I can see for her death other than to give Laurel an excuse to pick up the jacket. And every time it is hinted on the show that Laurel will take up her sister's mantle, I can't help but see the VERY unfavourable comparison between the two women. Watching them try to awkwardly stuff Laurel into the ill-fitting jacket is only making me more and more resentful of Sara's absence.

 

Laurel is tolerable and maybe even functional as a character at times, when she is doing her own thing. But watching her try to do Sara's thing is just painful. And not in a good way. Because Laurel doesn't have the "scaffolding," if you will. She doesn't have the right attitude, motivation, worldview, personal history, etc, to get to where Black Canary needs to be. Sara did, and I need her death to leave more than just an empty mask that anyone could fill. Black Canary is a brilliant, important character, and I can't help but feel that she is gone now, and we are never going to get her back. And it's really hard not to direct that bitterness at Laurel.

[catrox14]

JFC, Laurel is the literal worst character in a show I have ever had the displeasure of being subjected to just to watch the characters that are awesome. So sure it's horrible that the girl was being abused by her boyfriend but FFS Laurel you do NOT go after someone with a baseball bat.  By all rights that is attempted murder because it was not fucking self-defense. 

 

Thanks Gods Oliver is all, fuck you, you are too stupid to live.  And is having none of her ish.

 

Everything else was glorious.  Malcolm is so consistently batcrap crazy. That was such great stuff between Malcolm and Thea.  And yes Willa Holland is so good here. And yes show give her more. Mia...I see what you did there show.

 

Diggle! Diggle! Diggle! What a great episode for Diggle. He was kicking all kinds of ass and taking names.  So great. 

 

Pretty good episode aside from the Literal Worst Character in the History of TV. (IMHO)

[SleepDeprived]

I think that was a pretty decent episode but, honestly, this will probably end up being one that I would need to wiki or find clips online to remember the events that happened. Other than some good moments with the characters I like, I just couldn't shake the feeling that there was something off. I liked the Corto Maltese scenes and all but I missed seeing the lair. And the usual keeping tabs via comms bits. I miss Team Arrow.

 

I, also, take back the doubts I had about the writers probably not learning from the EA debacle last season. That was pretty awesome that Felicity was promoted to an Executive position (CIO? COO?), given her own EA, and Oliver's old corner office with a view. I hope she gets the place blessed or exorcised or something, though, since Isabel died there. Bet Isabel's ghost is pissed that Felicity got the corner office.

 

Thea and Oliver were great, definitely one of the highlights for me. As was Diggle/Lyla, Diggle/Oliver, Roy/Oliver, and Malcolm/Thea. Barrowman and Willa have a wonderfully crazy dynamic that I am enjoying immensely. I'm loving Thea's journey, so far.

 

Pleasantly surprised at Roy's reaction to Thea's explanation on why she left and broke up with him. No trying to explain to her what her own feelings/thoughts might be, or even trying to excuse his actions, but just plain acceptance and wishing her the best. Even though you could see that he was hurting, too. I did laugh at how Colton picked up as little of the trash as possible while "helping" Willa clean up the scattered garbage on the ground.

 

Nice name drop of Armitage, the arms dealer. And I loved Felicity's reaction to Palmer bringing up the bombing of QC's Applied Sciences building. Which she masterminded. I appreciate the attempts at continuity for the little things, writers. Now, let's not get lost when it comes to all the other bigger stuff, yeah?

 

I dunno what Ray's planning. I didn't really take his expression as sinister but rather concerned then somewhat pissed at discovering the O.M.A.C. weapon blueprints. Both O.M.A.C. and A.R.G.U.S. in an episode where we see Ray Palmer's (who was supposed to be Ted Kord until the writers nixed him and we ended up with Palmer, instead) extreme interest in QC's Applied Sciences division... I wonder if we'll see Maxwell Lord or Checkmate on Arrow sometime, too.

 

NYSSA!!!

[foreverevolving]

Maybe she has a 2-3 bedroom apartment with the extra rooms containing clothes?

I'd like to have that. *self proclaimed shopaholic right here*

 

This and I did too (I may have also shouted a few "yes" and "oh my god"

I’ve always liked Thea, because Willa Holland makes her imminently likable to me, and I’m really glad to have her back and excited to see where her storyline goes. The time jump and being around Malcolm makes her a believable badass to me. When she held that sword to Malcolm’s throat, I wanted to clap.

 

I actually did clap when Felicity got her new office and her new EA. I spent the whole summer hoping she’s be doing something involving applied sciences, and I’m glad the show didn’t let me down on that front, at least.

I can't wait to see Oliver reaction when he finds out what her position exactly is. i'm gonna say she's the head of a department. cause you don't get such a nice office if you're lower on the food chain.

 

also:

Is it just me who thought that Ray didn't know what was on the drive and was surprised to find  these advanced technologies and weapon stuff? 

and i also think he's starting to seriously suspect Felicity is up to something. she was actually not very secretive when talking with Diggle. Ray was being all: i'm just gonna pretend to not hear what you just said. but it was obvious the wheels in his head are turning. someone posted today (22nd or 21st) on AO3 a fic of him realizing who Felicity worked for and who the Arrow is, it wasn't the best written fic - it was a bit clunky in places- but it was good enough for me to finish reading and none of the characters acted stupid or too much out of character. I would love to see it happen that way on the show.

with that being said, tonight and last week Ray freakishly looked like my previous english professor - yes my english professor is that hot, and he's just as tall as SA - i was literally wondering what is he doing on my TV when i realized why would he be on my TV. it's been a long day.

 

I thought she originally had a talk with Oliver that was supposed to clue her in that this was a good time for her to visit Barry. I could've sworn that was a spoiler at one point. It must've gotten cut?

yea I was wondering about that too.

 

 

I returned to feeling either okay to serious eye-roll at Fakanary. she was sooo bad in that hospital scene even PB wasn't able to save that scene, and i was yelling in my "stupid bitch he's right there, you're in the hospital, laying on a bad after getting beaten up. be smart tell him about Sara, so he can at least understand why you are doing what you are doing". but did she listen to me? of course. cause she's stupid, and this entire storyline is contrived and all it makes me wanna do is invite lance over and make him some hot chocolate and than cuddle him. poor guy needs a cuddle.

the shouting match with Oliver was good on Stephen part, but hers... kind of tuned out on the Wildcat scenes, I thought the AA meeting scene was good.

 

Lance totally phoned in about that guy.

 

something tells me we're going to see more of that Shaw guy.

 

Oliver is really trying to avoid his feelings for Felicity. he's doing the same thing i do when i seriously like someone but know our relationship has zero chance of ever happening: I act like a pissed ice-bitch to them; it's mean and probably petty, which is why I have no problem accepting him doing just that. because people do, do that in real life, it's a defense mechanism and that is where Oliver is right now, that is what choosing to be the arrow is all about. he'll grow out of it, probably around the second half of the season.

 

Oliver being honest with Thea was great- both SA ad WH were amazing in that scene, I'm gonna take a guess and say Oliver is gonna tell her he's the Arrow next episode, or at least he'll try and than Malcolm will show up and turn his entire plan upside down.. or maybe this show will surprise me and despite finding out Malcolm is alive he'll tell Thea. oh and i may have squealed a bit at Thea going by Mia. it was either a simple nod to the character or she plans on truly taking on that name.

 

Speaking of Malcolm. He's bat shit crazy- no doubt about that, but Barrowman is doing it in such an amazing graceful way that I actually feel more emotions for Malcolm when he was talking about his dead wife, than Fakanary when she talks about Sara.

 

 

Can't wait for next week.

but really can the 5th be here already.

 

ETA: kodus for both Oliver and Roy for bringing up the fact that Thea acted... different, weird. that there was something off about her. yea next week gonna be fun!

Edited October 23, 2014 by foreverevolving

[slayer2]

Well, I found that kind of boring. The only things I was interested in were Thea, Laurel, Wildcat and surprise Nyssa. So...I guess the girl stuff. I am now heavily invested in Thea, very happy she joined the non-whiny party, I think I'm going to like Season 3 Thea very much. Laurel meets her trainer. Perfect. He doesn't look like he takes shit either so equally perfect and Nyssa has returned looking for Sara. Good. I will have these things to hold my interest. I certainly hope Felicity hurries back from Central City soon, I don't want her ruining my Flash experience. Finally, on the shallowest note ever, I really love Willa Holland's hair, the girl is gorgeous anyway but this style just suits her and her new role to a T. Glad that Ollie won't be the only one keeping secrets, way to switcheroo ol' show. Oh Ollie, such an idiot you are, just tell her you're the arrow before she inevitably jams a sword through your torso.

[Trini]

 

Personally, I laughed and it's because Laurel's an idiot. She goes after a wife beater with a BAT--what was her backup plan???

 

Well, the last time she tried to use a gun....

[some1105]

I think this show might need to start putting a "don't try this at home" disclaimer at the bottom--at one point tonight during the Thea/Malcolm training scenes, I caught myself wondering idly whether it might not be a good idea for me to smack bowls of water while I watch Arrow each week.  I mean, what could it hurt?  And then I'd be a ninja some day!

 

And then I caught myself and was like, errrr, snap out of it.

[GirlWednesday]

Hmm. Shoot me! I liked this episode, not because it was perfect and I had my team back but some (small) amount of faith was restored in the writers.

THEA!!! Now that's how you take a character and deconstruct her to be something new something else. Thea was always a B character for me on the show. But I want her journey and I'm interested in her journey.

Congrats to Felicity on her promotion. You deserved it girl. I like the potential storytelling opportunities. This one character is now connected to pretty much everyone on the show with a major storyline. That quick scene played for laughs proves why arrow needs the Felicity character. Everyone's else is busy being Debbie downers!

Oliver - I like his moments with digg and Roy. It makes his relationships believable. He is focusing on his sister because he witnessed a sister being lost. He's dumb but I guess I can see him compartmentalizing this: thea and I have no one else. We need to be together. BUT Felicity got hurt because I didnt notice a tracker on me. I can't be distracted.

Digg - liked his sub- story. Digglette and Lyla were so cute!

LL: ok that first scene in the gym. I wasn't even playing attention to the dialogue. Because my sister and I were confused as to why LL is wearing a detective's shield.

As much as I don't care for this storyline or that they killed Sarah for this stuff and nonsense, I liked that she failed and stumbled so grandly. For someone who is the second best educated (first bring Felicity but she's also a genius), why is she the least logical person on the show. If LL had done her research and then outplayed the abuser, I could have bought into it. Hell. I would have cheered if she approached him and used her "Wiley heart eyes" to start something with some thugs and get him beat up. I would have thought that LL was vicious but at least she would be competent.

... Taking the rest of this to Laurel thread.

Anyways overall I have regained some lil faith that writers are evolving the characters . I'll ff thru LL stuff and still be ok.

[wonderwall]

Over the past 3 episodes all I've seen from Laurel is rage and bad decision making whereas other people who probably started liking her probably saw her being more badass, a fighter, and the BC. 

Can I just say that becoming Black Canary isn't character development? What would be character development would be to see Laurel making less bad decisions, see her be thoughtful of her surroundings, having her care about other people and not the fire in her, having Laurel be friendly to Oliver's team and not use them as a means to an end. Because that's essentially what Laurel did this episode. She used Felicity for her tech and Felicity didn't even get anything in return. The fact that Felicity even helped her at all shows that she's a better person than Laurel. 

 

I want to see character growth from Laurel. This episode didn't show it. 'Sara' didn't show it. And now I'm left wondering, will we ever see it? Or will we just see Laurel becoming a bad ass? Because that will get tiring very soon. 

 

Laurel is right where she was in season 1. She's the definition of a flat character. 

[SleepDeprived]

1. I can't believe I am typing this, but, Ray.  Congrats, writers and Brandon Routh, you may have won me over just a little bit with that office scene with everyone calling Felicity and Routh just standing there, perfectly cool. And then you had to remind me that Ray is actually all evil and mostly interested in weapons, but, still. Triple bonus for explaining just why he was willing to spend that much money to get Felicity (and hire an EA for her AND give her Walter/Oliver's old office AND ignore the fact that she was clearly planning to do mildly unethical things from QC's office in a ten second bit.  Quadruple bonus for doing this while saving money on sets. Well done. Still don't want Felicity and Roy anywhere near anything resembling romance, but you got me a lot more intrigued and slightly less AUUGH on the stalking.

 

Pssst, @quarks. Remember that thing you were bitter about? Ray... Roy... Their annoyingly almost-similar names? Guess what happened? ;)

 

But, yeah, I agree with you. Right now, I wouldn't want to see Felicity and Ray (maybe, I'm still not close to being totally won over) or Felicity and Roy (never ever) in anything resembling a romantic relationship.

[Velocity23]

 

No one needs to tell Felicity the identity of the Flash.

[Ariah]

Ok, let me just say that Thea actually looks like she could be Malcolm and Moira's daughter. I mean Willa can pass for Barrowman/Thompson love-child. She has Thompson's little mole on an upper lip and Barrowman's button-nose. Yup, I can see that.

 

On different note, I liked that Laurel got her ass handed to her. After going half-cocked into a situation she could have handed differently (an anonymous tip did the job better and didn't get its eye blackened in the process), Laurel deserved a little reality check. I was afraid we would see her fight a bad guy with skill, but no. A positive surprise.

 

Another positive surprise was Oliver refusing to teach her how to fight. I wonder if it was the riginal plan, but Stephen said "no" to their scenes, hence the introduction of Ted. I can only hope that's the case.

 

Any episode with little Felicity is a downer for me, the next one will have Nyssa to cheer me up, though.

 

I'm on board with those saying felicity was right telling of Laurel. Still, I think there's more to her slight animosity towards Laurel than being fed up with orders. It may be subconscious, but here is Felicity, still very much in love with Oliver (or her idea of Oliver), trying to get away from the blast zone of Ollie's indecisiveness. She wants to forget or at least not think about all these romantic peturbations. And there she has Laurel calling for favour, out of the blue, like it's the most natural thing to do for Laurel - ever. Laurel, who was Oliver's ex. Laurel, who is grieving, yes, but obviously wants to get into Oliver's romantic zone now that there's a vacancy. Laurel, who urged Oliver to get up and kill when he fell off a motorcycle and could have been seriously hurt. I'm no saint, I'd hang up on Laurel in Felicity's place. On some subconscious level, they are rivals - not friends. It's instinct at work.

[AudienceofOne]

Oh my, so many plotlines. I enjoyed that. But it was far more all-encompassing than a usual Arrow episode. I'm surprised they didn't try to jam a Hong Kong flashback in there as well.

 

As much as I like Oliver going badass on people and as much as I think the show suffered a lot last season from not letting it happen more often - a bow and arrow against armed mercenaries? Really?

[looptab]

Maybe if the writers had thrown in a line such as "Are you busy?Could you blah blah" in the scene where Laurel calls Felicity it would have had another impact. But it looks like they're too concerned with rushing things and so keep skipping little bits that could do a lot for the characters. Another example is the missed conversation about Felicity's new job, or her trip to Central City. Yes, the audience is not dumb and can fill the blanks of what possibly happens off-screen, but...some things need to be shown, not just imagined, IMO.

 

Laurel's journey is still ridiculous to me. It's true, a lot of people seems to be more positive towards her, but, I said it last week and I'll say it again, it's because her destination seems to be set in stone. I guess seeing her do something (no matter how foolish) instead of popping pills must be an improvement for someone, but I just can't see what she's doing as a believable or acceptable behaviour. Oliver and Sara went through their transitions because they had to, because there were extraordinary circumstances that prompted them. She is not in the same situation. But it's useless discussing it, it's happening anyway..:/

 

Malcolm is so crazy it's awesome; more Diggle it's always a pleasure; Roy was cute.

I loved Thea and Oliver, it's always nice to see them together, I wonder if that's the only truth she'll know and for how long?

Ray's motivation it's one of the things I am looking forward to the most, and I like him with Felicity. But yes, more Team Arrow, please. ( Lol at Lyla calling them that, too).

 

Finally, they should definitely change their password for the lair, even though nyssa is certainly a most welcome sight in there than "someone else".

[olicityfan25]

I would love a scene of Felicity changing her phone number. Nobody should have to hear Laurel's annoying voice telling them what to do.

[Big Bad Wolf]

Ooh, Brandon Routh is up to no good!

 

When Laurel went to Oliver to ask him to train her, for a minute I thought I was really going to have to quit this show. At least if Laurel has her own storyline, I can just FF right through it. (And I did. Although I did make an exception when Fakanary was getting her ass kicked.)

 

They need to stop with the Laurel telling Felicity what to do crap right fucking now.

 

New!Thea is much less annoying then OldThea. Although, what was she doing working in a cafe when she's the daugher of Malcolm Merlyn? Pretty sure she didn't need the money to make rent.

 

Diggle's baby storyline bores me.

 

Also, I'm pretty sure that one can take a bow and arrow set on a plane, as long as it's in checked baggage.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Big Bad Wolf

[ostentatious]

I am no Laurel fan, but I am gravely disappointed in this casting choice for Ted.

See, if Laurel was in an enjoyable romance, I could easily be swayed. I always am. But this guy...did they even have him read? This role is so obvious. It is so obviously a type, and a type that would work wonderfully with her buttoned up self. This guy isn't that type. He really isn't any type. He is blah.

I know they don't grow Kevin Durands on trees, and he isn't pretty enough for CW. But beautiful men can play that gruff, seen it all type who would call her Princess, you know? Jensen Ackles, for one.

It should've been so easy to cast that type. I rewatched the scene and the scene itself could've crackled with tension, but nope. And it wasn't KC's fault IMO. One of her strengths is also one of her weaknesses; she would've played that scene exactly the same no matter who was playing Ted. She doesn't create energy with other actors. But if you had a guy who could, or even a guy who was matching her rhythm, it would've still played as intended. Instead, it makes her work look perfunctory, when the other party isn't "on."

He doesn't have to be a big guy. A Nestor Carbonell type, for example. Someone who would connect to her and have that pushing back, challenging feel.

Maybe one reason CD worked well with her was that he was the one reaching out and connecting?

I am the disappointedSorbo.gif.

Edited October 23, 2014 by ostentatious

[apinknightmare]

Also, I'm pretty sure that one can take a bow and arrow set on a plane, as long as it's in checked baggage.

Yeah, but it's probably not a good idea for two vigilantes to travel with the weapons they're performing illegal acts with. Good call on Oliver's part (it's rare).

[Password]

Haha that was so cool how he made the bows and arrows though!

[apinknightmare]

Haha that was so cool how he made the bows and arrows though!

Agreed! I love it when the show goes all-out ridiculous like that.

[Gwen-Stacys]

I am a terrible person for laughing when Laurel got knocked out...but it was comedy, I am sure. However when Thea was abused by her daddy I was genuinely horrified.

 

I thought the people over on ONTD were joking about this, but I guess not. Sorry, I have a thing about people laughing at women or people in general getting beat to the point of hospitalization....whether they're a real person or a fictional one. ....but humor is a subjective thing, I suppose.

 

Moving on:

 

I loved the storylines involving all of the women this episode! I knew in season 1 they were going to give Thea the Mia Dearden SL (minus the HIV and prostitution bits), so it was a nice little shout out that her island name is Mia (middle name Dearden). Her second scene with Oliver was very touching...but weirdly cut by the following scene of Ollie, Diggle, Roy, and the Argus storyline.

 

I actually laughed at Felicity voicing her refusal to be anyone's coffee pusher...only to find out that she had her own personal coffee pusher. The dynamic she has with Ray is refreshing and I hope they draw that relationship out for longer than a season, because they're super entertaining together. Great multi-tasker that one.

 

Note: I don't think Laurel asking Felicity to get information for her was particularly bitchy and neither was Felicity's response to her. Laurel likes efficiency and Felicity's the most efficient person she knows that won't ask her why she's looking up information on certain people. Felicity is also a very foot-in-mouth character who says things as she thinks them. Oliver used Felicity in pretty much the same vein as Laurel in season 1 (it's actually the foundation of Olicity); Felicity even gave him shit about it. Just pointing it out for those who'd like to tack that onto their reasons for hating Laurel.

 

I'm soooo happy they're going this route with Laurel's storyline. I liked that she went out and tried to "do good" but it went totally wrong. She's out of her depth in the vigilante field, and Sara giving Laurel her jacket didn't magically make her anything. It just gave her the courage and the push to start on her canon path. I also liked that Oliver turned her down when she asked him to train her (dumb on his part if he's trying to protect her, but completely understandable in context). The Black Canary (as well as other great fighters in the DC universe) is trained by Ted Grant and I AM HERE FOR THIS!

 

The ARGUS stuff, however.....I was not here for.

[pootlus]

What's worse is the five minutes they spent showing the start of Thea's training was more engaging than everything involving Laurel in this episode. Even though Laurel got beaten so badly she was put in the hospital, Malcolm attacking Thea just enough to drive her to grab a sword was far more harrowing and chilling to watch. Are they really going to have another character's road to badassery be more interesting and compelling than Laurel's again? I can't, people. I just can't.

 

Yep, Thea was great in this episode and Willa was awesome (but seriously, hot wax isn't that bad).  Loved all the bits with her and Barrowman. Malcolm is full-on cray cray and I'm loving every second of it.  Please, please if you have to have a replacement Canary make it Thea.

 

Colton Haynes was, to my surprise, pretty good in this episode.  He's always done his best work opposite Willa Holland, whom he seems to have a genuine rapport with, but the scene with him and Oliver in the Arrowcave was also pretty good and funny.  It was nice to see Oliver smile again.

 

Do I need to add anything to the Awesomeness That Is John Diggle? The Glock line had me LMAO and I loved his rage at the dude on Corto Maltese.  You do NOT mess with those whom Diggle holds dear.

 

I think the scene with Oliver and Thea may be my favourite drama scene from the show, for a while at least. A great scene for both Holland and Amell.

 

The less said about Laurel and her new aboreal love interest the better.   And sure KC is a mediocre actress but the writers are doing her absolutely no favours at the moment.  The line about the magic jacket was hilariously awful, it was like something an enthusiastic 12-year-old might have come up with.

 

Still liking Ray, didn't notice the expression post-plan because I was too lost in the hotness that is Brandon Routh.

 

Felicity owned all of her scenes as usual and thank GOD someone finally appreciates this woman's brains and gives her a great office and someone who may bring her food occasionally (because I'm sure she forgets to eat when she gets involved in something).

[Gwen-Stacys]

Can I just say that becoming Black Canary isn't character development? What would be character development would be to see Laurel making less bad decisions, see her be thoughtful of her surroundings, having her care about other people and not the fire in her, having Laurel be friendly to Oliver's team and not use them as a means to an end. Because that's essentially what Laurel did this episode. She used Felicity for her tech and Felicity didn't even get anything in return. The fact that Felicity even helped her at all shows that she's a better person than Laurel. 

 

I want to see character growth from Laurel. This episode didn't show it. 'Sara' didn't show it. And now I'm left wondering, will we ever see it? Or will we just see Laurel becoming a bad ass? Because that will get tiring very soon. 

 

Laurel is right where she was in season 1. She's the definition of a flat character. 

You actually did see growth within the episode though? She learned (the hard way) that you can't go into a situation with good intentions and a baseball bat and hope to come out the other end okay. She called in an anonymous tip on the woman-beating-douchebag and she signed up to learn how to be a more efficient fighter (by the person who actually trains BC in the comic book. BC never had an assassin-esque background.). She acknowledged that she has issues with channeling grief and sought an alternative method to her previous attempts. That's a character learning from bad choices and making attempts to avoid similar outcomes in the future.

Felicity helping Laurel didn't show that Felicity is a better person, it just showed that Felicity is willing to help someone/Laurel is an attorney and sometimes might need information she can't necessarily obtain through legal means.  (please stop trying to raise up one female character by pushing down another one, in-character-Felicity probably wouldn't be very down for that. She's awesome on her own without the need for comparison)

[apinknightmare]

Wasn't Quentin the one who called in the anonymous tip?

[pootlus]

Wasn't Quentin the one who called in the anonymous tip?

 

That was how I read the scene, the little half-smirk did it.

[apinknightmare]

And I agree that Laurel did show progress in this ep, but I just personally don't buy into her sudden disillusionment with the legal system and I think her drive to be a vigilante is plot-driven, clumsy and weak. But that's not on her, that's the writers' fault.

The plus side is I wasn't actively disengaged from her storyline which is really all I can hope for at this point and I'm glad she's going to get proper training-watching her get beaten was tough to take.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

"I need your help to find someone by Googling his phone… or something."

Ugh, between that and Laurel thinking that a guy lying to the DA when he wasn't under oath or under arrest or anything made me think that Laurel must be the stupidest person on earth. But then she went after the girlfriend beater and confirmed that it was possible for her to be even dumber than I originally thought.

 

Loved Oliver's hotel bows and arrows. Can you imagine the look on the maid's face when she came in and saw the bed taken apart with pieces missing?

 

Oliver said he was going to tell Thea the truth about everything and then ended up telling her only one thing. I hope once they get back home, he tells her the rest.

 

I have never warmed to Roy as a character, but last week when he hugged Felicity after they saw Sara's body and this week when he sincerely told Thea that if she was happy being away from Starling City then she should stay where she was, I started to like him a little bit.

Edited October 23, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Ceylon5]

My takeaway from the episode: Yay, Felicity has a real job doing things that only she is able to do and is presumably, along with the slightly irrelevant perks of the big office and the EA, being paid accordingly.  I wonder what her EA does all day?  I can't see Felicity really needing someone to plan her appointments and he clearly can't fend off unwanted callers, because they (Laurel, I'm looking at you) just call on her cell.  So does he just bring her a steady stream of coffee all day?  Fun job.

 

Speaking of phone calls, Felicity should just not answer her cell when she's in a meeting.  I get it was played for laughs (and it was funny), but a) it's a bit rude to take a call when you're in a meeting; and b) if you don't want people to hear your private Arrow business, try not talking about it in front of said people.  I guess Felicity has now been programmed to answer all calls immediately because everything is always so life-and-death and Felicity-we-can't-do-it-without-you that she's afraid if she doesn't answer, something awful might happen.  Which, to be fair, it might.  But she needs to train her peeps to not call her at work except, as in Diggle's case, if it really can't wait and really is life-and-death.

 

Also, while I'm on phone etiquette, please compare and contrast Call A:

Diggle: Hey, Felicity, this is John.  Where are you?

with Call B:

Laurel: Felicity, I need a favour.

What, Laurel, no "hello"?  No, "It's Laurel"?  No, "Sorry for calling out of the blue, is this a good time?"?  Also, Felicity knows Diggle's voice extremely well, considering she has it in her ear for large parts of every day, but he still introduced himself.  Laurel just expected her to know who was speaking.  Of course, Dig did then let down the side by ignoring the fact that Felicity told him she was in a meeting, but since the matter was super urgent and his family was at stake, I am totally letting him off the hook.  Laurel, however, was just rude.  Especially the pissed-off way she said "What?!" after Felicity implied somewhat jokingly that maybe, possibly, heaven-forbid she might not actually be in a doing-Laurel-a-favour type of mood.  Clearly the thought had not crossed Ms Lance's mind.  Does she even realise that Felicity is an actual person?  She hasn't ever shown that she does - she never greets her or speaks to her other than to tell her to do something.  Ever.  Trust me, I checked.

 

Otherwise, I was happy that the action was taking place during the daytime - yay for foreign locales where the guys can do cool stuff during daylight hours (I'm still not understanding the whole Arrow Must Only Walk At Night thing...).  And I was happy not to have any HK flashbacks, as those really aren't doing anything for me.  Also, two thumbs up on keeping Laurel in her own separate storyline.  As exhibited above, when she's inserted into the parts of the story that I enjoy, she tends to trigger my inner rant.

[Big Bad Wolf]

Yeah, but it's probably not a good idea for two vigilantes to travel with the weapons they're performing illegal acts with. Good call on Oliver's part (it's rare).

 

Maybe. But I'm pretty sure the show wasn't writing this as a good decision on the part of Oliver, but more because it gave them a chance to show him 'MacGyvering' the creation of the bows and arrows out of hotel room spare parts. LOL

[tv echo]

Oliver, Diggle and Roy
- I really enjoyed watching them work together on Corto Maltese.  Oliver and Diggle working in the field is always fun, and Roy actually added to it.  Oliver's shooting was awesome, as was his quip to Roy about how he never said he couldn't use a gun.
- I loved how Oliver constructed weapons (including bows and arrows!) out of stuff in their hotel rooms.
- I liked Oliver's scenes with Thea.  SA does a good job of showing how much Oliver loves Thea.  Sadly, I didn't get the same vibe from WH as Thea.  I've had trouble believing that Thea loves Oliver.

 

Thea
- I haven't liked Thea in the past because I thought she acted like a spoiled, self-centered brat.  But she's much more interesting now, and I like her journey of transition into a hero(?).  WH did a great job of showing Thea's change over the past five months.
- For someone who's been bitching about how others kept secrets from her and lied to her, Thea certainly has no problem keeping secrets of her own and lying to her brother now.  (There's a certain hypocrisy in that, just like there's hypocrisy in the fact that Laurel is prosecuting lawbreakers as a DA, while breaking the law herself.)  Oliver is still keeping his Arrow identity secret from Thea.  But so what?  Thea's keeping secret from him the fact that Malcolm Merlyn is alive and has been training her.  Thea's turning into Moira.
- I did like the interactions between Thea and Malcolm.  JB was great as usual, playing the proud, fond but cruel father.

 

Laurel
- I think we're supposed to feel sympathy for her grief and admiration for the way she fearlessly went after that guy.  Instead, like others here, I'm just getting a strong Single White Female vibe from her - and it's creepy.  (She's even getting blonder.)  Laurel tries to assume Sara's mission of taking down men who abuse women, so she attacks that guy with a bat.  Like others here have said, he could justifiably argue that he was just defending himself by beating her.  Police Captain Lance has only been a Laurel enabler.  Last season Laurel avoid a DUI charge because of her father.  Last week he didn't say anything about her lying, using his position to bully his officers, and beating that guy in the hospital bed.  This week, he just consoles her when he should be arresting - or at least reprimanding - her for breaking the law.  But no, he's only concerned about her injuring herself.  And how did Laurel even know for sure that guy was guilty?  That girl in AA could've been a psycho liar ex-girlfriend.  That's why we have something called due process - that every DA should know about.  Also, shouldn't Laurel's law license and DA job be in jeopardy again?  She broke the law.  Unless she lied about how she got injured and her police captain father covered up for her.  So she gets away with doing whatever she wants - again.
- Speaking of her DA job, why is Laurel acting like a cop by flashing a badge and tracking down suspects.  Cops investigate and arrest;  DAs prosecute.  Even though prosecutors wear badges, the DAs on Law and Order never went around wearing a badge like a fashion accessory.  I suspect Laurel wore it so openly in order to intimidate - I said last week that she has no compunction about using her power to get what she wants.
- I think the EPs made a mistake in making Laurel a lawyer.  She's a terrible lawyer - incompetent and unethical.  They should've made her a cop, which would give her a more valid reason for being out on the streets investigating, and which also would've given her police training.
- Laurel's default mode seems to be cold, hostile and angry.  She's back to Season 1 Laurel.  If Ted Grant falls for her, it certainly won't be because of her personality (unless he's a masochist).  I got zero chemistry between KC and JRR.  When they showed the shot of Ted shirtless and punching a bag, I thought "oh, look, they got a Stephen Amell body double."
- Yay to Oliver for refusing to train Laurel.  Poor Ted Grant, now he's stuck with her.

 

Felicity
- I love how she's turning into a cross between Pepper Potts and Lucius Fox.  Wouldn't it be great if Ray Palmer leaves Starling City at the end of Season 3 and makes Felicity the new CEO of QC?  (Of course, he's have to train her on how to run a corporation in the meantime.)
- Even Laurel is now calling Felicity for IT help.  I actually didn't mind so much, except for Laurel's tone of voice.  Only Laurel can ask for a favor and make it sound like an order.  I do like Felicity's response: "We're favor friends? We're friends?"  Felicity was surprised and confused (I didn't hear any animosity or resentment).  I'd be confused too, considering their limited past interactions.  Incidentally, I think Laurel didn't ask for help from the DA office or the police because she didn't want them to know what she was doing.  She knew it was personal vigilante, illegal stuff.

- I have no problem with Diggle calling Felicity at work.  When she was working at Tech Village, Oliver and Diggle called her all the time for help, so it's something Felicity would expect.  I expect her to keep taking calls at work because she knows how important and necessary her role is on Team Arrow.  

- I am a bit nervous about the way Felicity is kinda being shunted to the side with her side story, while Laurel is being integrated into the main story.

 

I almost quit watching Arrow in Season 1, when the show focused on Oliver, Laurel, Tommy and Thea, because I just didn't care for any of the characters and thought they were all self-centered (except maybe Tommy).  I got interested again when the original Team Arrow (Oliver, Diggle, Felicity) began working together and then Sara came on board as the Black Canary.  Like many of you, I lost interest again in the back half of Season 2 when it became all about the Lance family drama, before getting invested in that season finale.  If Season 3 is going to focus on Oliver, Laurel and Thea again, while shunting Diggle and Felicity to the side as secondary characters,  I don't know if I can stay interested to the end.  I want characters I can like and root for.

Edited October 24, 2014 by tv echo

[Primetimer]

Laurel, Thea, and even Felicity are starting new chapters in their lives. How does that fit into the Arrow template?

Read the story

[Password]

Felicity

    - I love how she's turning into a cross between Pepper Potts and Lucius Fox.  Wouldn't it be great if Ray Palmer leaves Starling City at the end of Season 3 and makes Felicity the new CEO of QC?  (Of course, he's have to train her on how to run a corporation in the meantime.)

 

This is exactly how I felt in the second half of season 2. Felicity was far more concerned about QC than Oliver was and I thought gosh she would make a great CEO. If it's something Felicity grows to want, then absolutely I would love it to happen.

 

One thing I adored about this episode was how speechless Felicity was when she realised she has her own EA. She whispered it, and it was a lovely moment.

[Guest Accused Dingo]

I know people dont paricularly like Laurel (epecially when it comes to Sara) but i think i am going to enjoy her storyline this season. I never hated Laurel i found her boring but i did like DrunkLaurel so i think i will like Angry Vigilante Laurel.

Like always Felicity was entertaining.

Is it a bad thing when Oliver is the least interesting thing on the show? I think i care about Oliver least and that is not good.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[apinknightmare]

Maybe. But I'm pretty sure the show wasn't writing this as a good decision on the part of Oliver, but more because it gave them a chance to show him 'MacGyvering' the creation of the bows and arrows out of hotel room spare parts. LOL

Oh, most definitely! The bows and arrows were left behind specifically so Oliver could play MacGuyver, but I won't complain because I loved that ridiculousness.

[quarks]

Pssst, @quarks. Remember that thing you were bitter about? Ray... Roy... Their annoyingly almost-similar names? Guess what happened? ;)

 

 

I hate being right. I'm going to be mixing up those names all season, I bet.

 

Anyway, I have another question: given that the show has said that Oliver is too broke to have his own apartment, buy his own bed or a fern or a cheap little baby gift, and the comics suggested that he's not even paying his equipment suppliers the full amount - how exactly did he pay for three last minute tickets to South America? (I'm including Thea; I figured ARGUS paid for Diggle's ticket.)  I think he still owns QC stock (right?), and Ray just told us that QC stock just bounced up by $10 a share, but how exactly did he convert that money into airline tickets?

[ostentatious]

I think part of the point of frazzled Felicity is that she doesn't automatically know how to be a boss. She is used to being the support. She will be great as the boss, but delegating and allowing your EA to do their job and protect you...a new manager has to learn that skill.

 

It would definitely have been helpful if Laurel had said "Got a second?" or "Can you talk?" because Felicity is a people pleaser, even when people=Laurel, and even though she did not have a second and could not talk, she would've said "Sure."

 

However, it is entirely in character for Laurel to do that to her. Laurel has no idea whatsoever that Oliver isn't on the market anymore and that Felicity is the buyer who just hasn't moved in yet. Laurel seems to need a reason to be nice to someone, rather than needing a reason not to be.

[jester]

The Laurel wanting to be BC arc would've been a big ol' stinker to me anyway, but it would've made so much more sense to have her already be disillusioned with the law. I mean, she worked at CNRI and was in the DA's office last year, you can't tell me she hasn't seen fucked up domestic shit before. And NOW she wants to do something about it? NOW she's dissatisfied with the legal process? She could've gotten disillusioned without Sara having to die, and that would've been a much more compelling story. I mean, as compelling as it can be with her.

I don't know,  this kinda worked for me. I think we have seen throughout Laurel has been struggling with the restraints of what she can do within the confines of the law. She strikes me as someone who wanted to go into law for very idealistic reasons, and has gradually seen over time those ideals cannot be met usually. Sara (and the Arrow) have shown her there is another avenue to get things done and help people. Sara dying makes sense as a catalyst for her to want to get in the game so to speak and be able to do something as well as carrry on her sisters legacy. Maybe it's a stretch but I didn't feel short changed in how it's been handled, but take my opinion with a grain of salt because I think KC has done a great job with what she's given and this story line. Judging from all the other responses here I'm clearly and idiot. :)

[patchwork]

It was the little things that made this episode for me like Roy's 'what the hell man' face when Oliver goes all assassin pro with the gun, the callback to Felicity's blow up Allied Science plan, Daddy Diggle and the Digglet. 

 

Laurel, I give up I just give up your storylines suck.

 

I don't know what Felicity's new job is exactly but as it utilises her actual skills and seems to be within her field of profession I'm all for it. I don't think Ray's in any position to criticise her hacking considering the way he was able to buy QC but he is the most understanding boss ever to tolerate that going on during a meeting and grant her request for a few days off.

 

IMO he was counting on there being something worthwhile on that hard drive but he wasn't expecting what he found.

 

The shipper in me is grinning like a loon at Oliver not being able to put his failed relationship with Felicity in a box and pretend nothing has changed. Boy has it bad. 

 

Thea's back! Using the name Mia might be a hat tip to comic canon with no lasting consequence but I'm glad the show put it in. Her level in badass is so much more believable than Laurel's as is her motivation. Speaking of I'm disappointed Oliver didn't confess all but I got the feeling she already knows.   

Edited October 23, 2014 by patchwork

[KirkB]

Anyway, I have another question: given that the show has said that Oliver is too broke to have his own apartment, buy his own bed or a fern or a cheap little baby gift, and the comics suggested that he's not even paying his equipment suppliers the full amount - how exactly did he pay for three last minute tickets to South America? (I'm including Thea; I figured ARGUS paid for Diggle's ticket.)  I think he still owns QC stock (right?), and Ray just told us that QC stock just bounced up by $10 a share, but how exactly did he convert that money into airline tickets?

 

Because the show is trying to have it's cake and eat it too. They wanted Oliver to be broke as part of Slade's plan, and to give him more reason to mope, but at the same time they need him to be a well equipped vigilante and that takes money. So I figure he's broke by billionaire standards. He probably still has a degree of money to burn, just not the virtually limitless assets he could access at a moments notice.

[Pyramid]

I actually really liked this episode.

I think my favourite scene was the one between Thea (like the hair!) and Oliver. It was really well acted and they've got great chemistry together.

And I surprised myself by actually thinking that Roy wasn't an immature idiot for once. His response to Thea staying was measured and adult, I really liked it. Good character development.

Digg continues to be awesome in every way.

Glad Felicity got the office and the EA. I read her scene on the phone with Laurel a little differently from most here. I thought it was supposed to be played as a light, vaguely comedic scene, but the KC's vast ability to suck the fun out of anything conquered all. I really thought the "Google his phone" line was supposed to be funny, but the way KC said it, it just came off in her usual shitty way.

 

Laurel, well ... if she was eight years old then half of the things she does would make sense. Like only being able to vent her frustration by lashing out, and her belief that Sara's jacket is magical. What a fucking idiot.
Knowing that they're going to make her the Black Canary, it really colours every scene, I'd really like to know what someone would make of her actions if they didn't know the ultimate destination of her journey. Would it make sense?

 

I'll end by saying I disliked S1 Thea about as much as I disliked S1 Laurel, but now I'm completely turned round. I can't wait to see her journey now.

[foreverevolving]

Also, I'm pretty sure that one can take a bow and arrow set on a plane, as long as it's in checked baggage.

identity safety protocol probably. think what may happen if someone opens that bag up and realize Oliver Queen is transporting a bow and arrows...

 

 

Oliver said he was going to tell Thea the truth about everything and then ended up telling her only one thing. I hope once they get back home, he tells her the rest.

 

 

He also wanted her to come back home, not- as Diggle pointed out - run in the other direction. he gave her just enough to show her he was ready and willing to share everything. plus they were in a very public place. There's a place and time for everything.

 

 

Anyway, I have another question: given that the show has said that Oliver is too broke to have his own apartment, buy his own bed or a fern or a cheap little baby gift, and the comics suggested that he's not even paying his equipment suppliers the full amount - how exactly did he pay for three last minute tickets to South America? (I'm including Thea; I figured ARGUS paid for Diggle's ticket.)  I think he still owns QC stock (right?), and Ray just told us that QC stock just bounced up by $10 a share, but how exactly did he convert that money into airline tickets?

 

i'm gonna fanwank it was credit card points cashed in for miles. I've done it once before. I can only imagine how many points a man like Oliver Queen has on his credit card(s) account.

[steelyis]

You actually did see growth within the episode though? She learned (the hard way) that you can't go into a situation with good intentions and a baseball bat and hope to come out the other end okay. She called in an anonymous tip on the woman-beating-douchebag and she signed up to learn how to be a more efficient fighter (by the person who actually trains BC in the comic book. BC never had an assassin-esque background.). She acknowledged that she has issues with channeling grief and sought an alternative method to her previous attempts. That's a character learning from bad choices and making attempts to avoid similar outcomes in the future.

 

 

Laurel is a highly educated, adult woman who should already know better. Laurel doesn't even have the excuse of acting from a heightened emotional state either, because her attack was as premeditated as they come. She had plenty of time to calm down and plan her attack better if she was determined to stop that asshole from abusing his wife/girlfriend again, or do the smart thing and make a simple phone call like her father did.

 

I'd have credited her with some competence if she'd brought pepper spray or a stun gun with her to even the odds, or at least aim for the asshole's knees with the bat, but nope, she couldn't be arsed to do that much.

 

Instead she acted without thinking, which made her look like a petulant child having a temper tantrum. It made her look like a kid wanting to play dress up. If Arrow had a lighter tone I think she could get away with it, but Arrow is a very dark show and has shown us that being a vigilante is not fun and will likely lead to a horrible, painful death. Laurel should be approaching it with all the caution and seriousness it deserves, but she hasn't, even though she's seen up close what that life has done to people she loves.

 

It's really frustrating to watch Laurel bumble witlessly and make mistakes even Roy didn't make when he started out, and he didn't have half the support and resources Laurel has at her disposal.

[quarks]

She called in an anonymous tip on the woman-beating-douchebag and she signed up to learn how to be a more efficient fighter (by the person who actually trains BC in the comic book. BC never had an assassin-esque background.). She acknowledged that she has issues with channeling grief and sought an alternative method to her previous attempts. That's a character learning from bad choices and making attempts to avoid similar outcomes in the future.

 

 

I'll give you the grief-channeling. That was, I thought, her best scene in the episode and something that was really giving me hope for her character, especially since I thought KC was strong in that scene. (Actually, for once the only time where I thought KC was completely off was when she was attempting to explain the jacket magic to Oliver, and I have to agree with the general consensus here - that wasn't KC, that was that line.) I also liked that she realized she needed training, even if she approached Ted Grant at exactly the wrong time. The only real issue there was continuity - the show has said, in script, that Laurel has taken self-defense and fighting lessons. Which is why I get irked when the show decides to forget this and make Laurel incompetent, as it did here. Having said there there's a gulf between self defense and running after goons, so I like that Laurel is addressing that.

 

With the rest, though - The camera/editing, though, strongly suggested that Quentin, not Laurel, called in the anonymous tip.  And the problem is, she went from bad choices to worse choices.

 

Well, one problem. The second issue - and this is me - is that this is the second episode in a row to have the following pattern: Laurel gets angry and wants to do something. Man tells Laurel not to do said something. Laurel does it anyway and ends up screwing it up/needing rescue/getting hurt. It's the classic trope of Angry Woman doesn't listen to a man, and needs to be taught a lesson, and unfortunately, it's something we've seen many times with Laurel on this show, all the way back to episode two, and the overall sense is that no, Laurel is not learning from her mistakes: she has to be taught the same lesson over and over again.

 

Plus, we are now 49 episodes into this show, and so far, Laurel has had one unmitigated success that she has earned on her own: bugging Blood's office. That's it. With everything else she has either completely screwed up or needed to be helped/rescued by Oliver or Sara. Her very few heroic moments have involved saving bad guys ("An Innocent Man," "Birds of Prey," in both cases not actively saving, but begging Oliver/Sara not to kill) or begging others to do her heroic work for her ("Birds of Prey,""Streets of Blood.")  I am more than fine with my superheroes failing occasionally, or, in Oliver's case, succeeding at beating people up and failing at so much else, but seeing Laurel fail yet again is frustrating.

[apinknightmare]

I don't know, this kinda worked for me. I think we have seen throughout Laurel has been struggling with the restraints of what she can do within the confines of the law. She strikes me as someone who wanted to go into law for very idealistic reasons, and has gradually seen over time those ideals cannot be met usually. Sara (and the Arrow) have shown her there is another avenue to get things done and help people. Sara dying makes sense as a catalyst for her to want to get in the game so to speak and be able to do something as well as carrry on her sisters legacy. Maybe it's a stretch but I didn't feel short changed in how it's been handled, but take my opinion with a grain of salt because I think KC has done a great job with what she's given and this story line. Judging from all the other responses here I'm clearly and idiot. :)

Not an idiot at all, please don't write that. Opinions, we all have 'em!

And I do see your point, it's just that I don't recall her ever being dissatisfied with the system even when she did have to go outside of it to get things done. She just happily involved the Arrow/blackmailed people/whatever and went on her way. She must've seen a ton of domestic violence cases working with the disadvantaged and in the county/city court system, so this sudden realization that the legal system sucks for DV victims and her deciding to go after their abusers seems like less of a character progression (she was a happy and successful DA just two eps ago) and more of a plot device. I guess I was just hoping the 'am I me or am I my sister' dilemma was less literal. I'd like to have seen her come to the realization that the system isn't fair before Sara died-then her kickstarted desire to fight for victims (that "fire" she feels, I guess) after Sara's death would feel more natural to me instead of her literally wanting to be her sister.

Edited October 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Big Bad Wolf]

So, if Felicity is going to be working a day job at Queen Consolidated, as well as keeping her gig as the backbone of Team Arrow at night, when is the poor girl going to sleep?

[Lady Calypso]

I found Roy to be very grounded and pulled in this episode. Usually he's wound up tight, usually angry, but Colton Haynes was definitely showing Roy as 'tired and grounded'. Maybe Roy is kind of mourning Sara still? Which is only slightly odd, as I didn't think the two were that close. Or it's just that Roy was worried about Thea. 

 

I would add my two cents in on Xtreme's posts on Laurel/Felicity, but I think everyone else has said it all, so I'll just nod and say 'I agree!'. 

 

I didn't mind Laurel calling Felicity, just as I didn't mind Felicity calling her out on it. It's a legitimate question and if someone like Amanda Waller called Felicity, I'd have the exact same reaction as Felicity would. 

 

I did fast forward through most of Laurel's scenes. I don't think she's doing a horrible job (the writing really is the major problem), but she still isn't likeable for me enough to care about her character's journey. Yes, a part of that is attributed with Katie Cassidy's acting, but the writing for Laurel has been all over the place so I can't find it in me to care that much about her. I did like that Oliver wouldn't train Laurel because Sara wouldn't want him to. For all of Oliver's faults, he does care about people. He just makes some occasional bad decisions of not telling people things to protect them. Laurel, in the meantime, is probably going to break her promise to Quentin and go fight crime again, because it 'gets rid of the fire inside me'. That's just bad writing all around. So, my opinion of Laurel is me wanting to give her a chance, and I think Katie does some occasional good work, but the writing and some of her own acting choices make it hard for me to let go of the last two seasons with her. 

 

Felicity having her own EP was really sweet and I don't mind her working with Ray. I think he's an intriguing character and he is treating her like an equal. 

 

Sara Digglet is so adorable that I just want to squeeze her and never let her grow up. 

 

Thea/Oliver scenes were well done. Thea is the last family member that Oliver has and I'm glad he finally went to go get her. The scene where he tells her about Robert was well done because she may have been shocked and possibly angry, but she still listened to Oliver and made the choice to come home. I'm hoping Oliver continues to tell her things bit by bit. I think that will be a good way of easing her into things. Also, I see Thea's journey to become a hero much better written and performed than Laurel's. Maybe because Barrowman is attached to Thea's journey. Hmm. Maybe if Laurel was Merlyn's protoge, we could like her more. Probably not. 

 

Ted Grant is boring as hell, sorry to say. I don't really like his character. Actually, scratch that. I like the character and what he stands for, but I'm surprisingly underwhelmed by the actor.