S03.E03: Corto Maltese

[MostlyC]

Oliver leaves for Corto Maltese, to where Felicity has traced Thea’s whereabouts. Laurel meets Ted Grant. Felicity adjusts to her new job.

[wonderwall]

Overall I thought this was an okay episode... Some quick thoughts while I was watching the episode:

• Merlyn is batshit crazy
• Lying to a DA when you're not under oath is not perjury. FFS what type of Law School did she go to?
• I saw no chemistry between her and Ted but I'm willing to give it a chance. She's supposed to be in the A plot, but damn, she still manages to be in the B plot. What does Laurel training have to do with the Arrow? But I really liked her AA scene. I'm glad we finally got to see that.
• And then just when I don't mind Laurel, she's a bitch towards Felicity and does something stupid like going out and getting the shit beaten out of her.Ugh she's going to give Quentin a heart attack one day. And it's annoying how they bring up the jacket every episode. WE GET IT. And why does Laurel get stuck with the clunkiest of lines?
• They are pushing Laurel as BC way too hard and it makes me uncomfortable... ugh.
• Diggle and his family? The most precious thing in the entire world.
• FELICITY GETS AN EA AND getting Oliver's old office!? this is just amazing. THANK GOD.
• Ray is so evil it's not even funny :p Daniel Shaw 2.0 guys
• And let's be real, everyone would be lost without Felicity.
• The show feels ridiculously weird with Felicity being away from the team. SO WEIRD. Not sure if I'll wait till 1am to tune in next week.

[Shanna]

Ugh, I was really liking this episode and then they have to throw in the laurel bullshiit. I can not deal with her stupid jacket obsession. Can all of her training just happen offscreen for the duration of the show and then maybe in the last episode Oliver can retire to marry felicity and have babies and laurel can go fight crime somewhere in offscreensville?

Anyway. I cackled at Oliver's drapes dress version of homemade bows. Waller is shady. Diggle is awesome and I even enjoyed Roy.

I have to say, I think Stephen Amell does an amazing job when he gets these emotional beats like with Thea this episode talking about the island and his dad. Bravo.

Eta, yes Merlin is indeed BSC. When he hit Thea? Man.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Shanna

[apinknightmare]

Loved everything about this ep but Laurel's weak-ass reasoning for wanting to become Sara. She's all of a sudden disillusioned with the law? How many wife beaters has she seen walk in her law career? She was super fine being DA just two weeks ago - everything was peachy. They really are just writing her wanting to single white female Sara allllll around town. I don't know why I expected any different, but I did.

 

1. Felicity has an EA? Giving her Oliver's old office? YESSSSSS

2. Thea? GIRL, YES

3. Roy? Sweet little puppy? YES

4. Oliver actually attempting to be a brother for once? YES (I loved those scenes with Thea)

5. Diggle being all grrr over his family? YES

6. Felicity calling Laurel out, asking if they were favor friends? Or even friends?  YES, FELICITY. YES

 

This ep made me not miss the Felicity/Oliver interaction so much, but I need them back in good standing soon. Did I miss it or did she not tell him she was working with Ray? And did I also miss where she found out about Barry?

Edited October 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

Smart moves:  Oliver refuses to train Laurel  and they put Nyssa in to preview an episode where Felicity will be taking time off.

 

The funny:  when Laurel puts on Sara's jacket, she wants to do good.  It's a magical jacket, clearly.

 

What I missed:  Doe, A Deer, playing in the background as Oliver and Diggle made up bows and arrows from parts of the hotel room.  (I wonder what the excess charge was, and is ARGUS paying it?)

 

They really are using Colton Haynes well.  He's got the greatest facial expressions.

 

I'm enjoying the Thea/Oliver and Thea/Merlyn stuff.  I wonder if Merlyn had already made plans to have her back in Starling City as soon as he saw Roy.

 

I'm glad Ray didn't make Felicity his EA, and that he appreciates her abilities. He'd have to, given how everyone kept calling her when she was in a meeting with him. Team Arrow + Laurel really has to stop taking her for granted.

Edited October 23, 2014 by statsgirl

[Sunshine]

They didn't actually show her telling Oliver about working for Ray.  I think she found out about Barry from the news.  (See Easter Egg on computer screen in office.)

 

ETA: MG tweeted that Felicity was reading Iris's blog. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Sunshine

[Tallis]

Thoughts: Still don't know what Felicity's job title actually is (but she has a cute EA). Has she told Oliver that her new job is with Ray? Doesn't seem like it. How many outfit changes did she have - they must have upped the clothing budget. Randomly off to Central City - why?

Thea was awesome, Thea and Malcolm was every bit the screwed up fun I'd hoped for. Willa's stunt double is unfortunate not a good match physically. Barrowman! <shakes fist>

Roy is growing on me.

Oh Laurel. Oh christ.

[apinknightmare]

The Laurel wanting to be BC arc would've been a big ol' stinker to me anyway, but it would've made so much more sense to have her already be disillusioned with the law. I mean, she worked at CNRI and was in the DA's office last year, you can't tell me she hasn't seen fucked up domestic shit before. And NOW she wants to do something about it? NOW she's dissatisfied with the legal process? She could've gotten disillusioned without Sara having to die, and that would've been a much more compelling story. I mean, as compelling as it can be with her.

[bethy]

I was so hoping Ted Grand would call Laurel on her stupid perjury comment.  Ugh.  Even with that I was thinking I didn't mind her in her DA role until she called Felicity.  Just.  Grrrr.  I get that they were probably trying to show everyone depending on Felicity for a funny/awkward moment with Ray, but man.  So. Obnoxious.  "Google a phone number"? Do you not own your own phone?  Or have your own computer?  Or an assistant at your fancy DA office who could do your bidding?

 

 LOVED that Felicity called her on whether they were "favor friends" or even "friends" and then hung up on her.  

 

I've never hate-watched anything before - I wonder if I could try that as my mindset when Laurel is on screen.

[Tangerine]

Laurel's arc is going exactly the way we thought it would. So we make all these jokes about how the jacket has magical powers and the show pretty much writes it in there. UGH. DO NOT WANT. When Quentin was saying "You are not your sister" was I the only one screaming at the TV "YES! LISTEN TO YOUR FATHER."

 

That being said, I do not take any joy in watching a woman being beat up on screen, even for storytelling's sake. Seeing that happen to both Thea and Laurel today made me uneasy.

 

I very much enjoyed Oliver Queen channeling Macguyver. I also enjoyed seeing him shoot arrows in civilian clothes so I could get a better look at his form (his archery form!) and technique because I'm a nerd like that.

 

And the Thea/Oliver and Thea/Roy scenes were done very well. I just really hope Oliver tells Thea soon.

 

Felicity remains the best. She stood her ground, but was still obviously nervous. And she gets an EA. And an office! I just wished we could have had more scenes between her and Oliver. There's just so much unresolved between them that needs to be addressed.

 

Diggle + Family remains amazing. I do wish they could use Lyla a bit more though.

[Shanna]

Thoughts: Still don't know what Felicity's job title actually is (but she has a cute EA). Has she told Oliver that her new job is with Ray? Doesn't seem like it. How many outfit changes did she have - they must have upped the clothing budget. t.

Maybe she is the C I O?

I love to picture Felicitys closet full of cute dresses.

[opus]

Was it wrong I laughed when Laurel got beat up , and then compounded it by laughing again when she was in the hospital?

[Tallis]

Maybe she is the C I O?

I love to picture Felicitys closet full of cute dresses.

I think at this point it must have gone beyond a mere closet. Possibly a storage warehouse?

[Trini]

 

Ray is so evil it's not even funny :p Daniel Shaw 2.0 guys

Dead things should stay dead! (To borrow a meme from TWoP)

 

 

LOVED that Felicity called her on whether they were "favor friends" or even "friends" and then hung up on her.

 

Well, somebody on the writing team gets it.

[Shanna]

I think at this point it must have gone beyond a mere closet. Possibly a storage warehouse?

Maybe she has a 2-3 bedroom apartment with the extra rooms containing clothes?

[Jediknight]

• Lying to a DA when you're not under oath is not perjury. FFS what type of Law School did she go to?

Starling City Upstairs Law School.

 

So we got Thea going by Mia tonight.  Soon she'll be Mia Dearden, and ready to become Speedy.

 

It was good to see that Oliver got to smile this week.  When Roy says he's never been on a plane Oliver starts laughing, although it's possible Amell really cracked and they left that in.  For the most part Amell got to have a lot of fun this episode.

 

Great to see Nyssa back.

[thuganomics85]

Nyssa!  Katrina Law, you are a welcome sight, you beautiful, awesome, badass!  I so can't wait to see more of Nyssa next week!

 

OK, every time, I tell myself to try and give Laurel chance, they pull shit like this.  Her getting her ass handed to her by that woman-beating asshole was predictable, but makes it worse was she had him, if she didn't feel the need to trash-talk.  But, nope, she wacks him a few times, gets in her Sara rip-off line, letting him recover, and take her out.  Moron.  What if it had been a guy who actually killed people?  At least this led to her getting fed some humble pie, like Quentin telling her she isn't Sara, and Ollie pointing out she has no training.  So, now she's seeking Ted Grant's help.  Good luck, Grant.  I hope you can put up with a lot of arrogance and attitude.

 

Also, that speech at the end about the jacket making her feel like Sara was alive was the worst.  I won't even blame Katie Cassidy; that was just awful writing.  I'm not sure if it was acting, or if Ollie's "WTF?" reaction was Stephen Amell being like "Did our writers get taken over by monkeys with typewriters?"

 

Besides that, I actually really liked everything else.  Any time we get plenty of Diggle and David Ramsey owning the screen, is good in my book.  And, it sounds like there will be lasting implications, since he gets even more conformation that ARGUS and Waller are up to no good (although, I have to think The Suicide Squad all but confirmed that, already.)

 

Thea and Malcolm together, were about as nutty as I expected.  Willa Holland and John Barrowman are just so much fun to watch.  I really hope they don't drop the ball this time, and Thea gets more to do this season.  Enjoyed her interactions with Ollie, and the way Willa and Stephen play off of each other.  Glad she's coming back to Starling City, but I have to think things are only going to get crazier.

 

Felicity was off doing her own thing, but I did enjoy watching her balance out everyone asking her to do something.  And, the set-up for her to go off to The Flash next week.  Seems like Ray wanted those files for some kind of weapon?  Hmm...

 

Did I mention how glad I am Nyssa is back?!  Sorry...

Edited October 23, 2014 by thuganomics85

[Orion]

Loved Oliver and Thea moment. SA did a really good job with the moment he told her about Robert.

 

Diggle was awesome. Show give me more Diggle!

 

Roy is cuter when he doesn't speak but I like him this year more.

 

No, No, NO to Laurel calling up Felicity for favors. Stop it. Get your own team Laurel. This one is being doing real crime fighting not picking fights with thugs.

 

Loved the car chase stunt at the beginning.

 

Can't stand that they didn't let Oliver and Felicity have a scene about Barry or about where she's working.  The more they cut from that relationship the angrier I get about Laurel being in the show.

 

I know they did it for laughs but I've been to South America you can get guns there pretty easily and Argus didn't have connections to call they didn't have to use bed springs.

 

Happy Nyssa is back.

 

I am 100% done with her waving the jacket around as some kind of instant character development. I want to fight because I have my super magic jacket that takes away the fire burning inside of me.

 

Ted Grant not the best actor and no chemistry with Laurel. I was hoping for more.

 

Merlyn is fun crazy though.

 

ETA: Laurel is STILL lying to Quentin and this is still making me angry. Now the whole don't be your sister is being add to the your daughter is buried in her old grave. Laurel and Quentin was one of the few times I find her tolerable and now they took that away. *sigh*

Edited October 23, 2014 by Orion

[XtremeOne1]

 

Overall I thought this was an okay episode... Some quick thoughts while I was watching the episode:

• Merlyn is batshit crazy
• Lying to a DA when you're not under oath is not perjury. FFS what type of Law School did she go to?
• I saw no chemistry between her and Ted but I'm willing to give it a chance. She's supposed to be in the A plot, but damn, she still manages to be in the B plot. What does Laurel training have to do with the Arrow? But I really liked her AA scene. I'm glad we finally got to see that.
• And then just when I don't mind Laurel, she's a bitch towards Felicity and does something stupid like going out and getting the shit beaten out of her.Ugh she's going to give Quentin a heart attack one day. And it's annoying how they bring up the jacket every episode. WE GET IT. And why does Laurel get stuck with the clunkiest of lines?
• They are pushing Laurel as BC way too hard and it makes me uncomfortable... ugh.
• Diggle and his family? The most precious thing in the entire world.
• FELICITY GETS AN EA AND getting Oliver's old office!? this is just amazing. THANK GOD.
• Ray is so evil it's not even funny :p Daniel Shaw 2.0 guys
• And let's be real, everyone would be lost without Felicity.
• The show feels ridiculously weird with Felicity being away from the team. SO WEIRD. Not sure if I'll wait till 1am to tune in next week.

 

 

I'd fault the actor for the no chemistry between Laurel and Ted. He seems to think shirtless = acting. But I hope we don't get a relationship with them. Just let Laurel become a fighter.

 

And I also don't think Laurel was a bitch to Felicity. If anything I was taken aback by Felicity being sort of rude to Laurel with the "Are we favor friends? Are we even friends"...Who says that to someone? Especially Felciity who is usually Miss. Nice.  Hope they do build a friendship between them. The DC-TV verse is lacking in any sort of female friendships, especially now that Sarah is dead. But I guess I'm the only one here who thought that since people LOVE that Felicity was snippy to her. Given the machoism of Arrow, and the death of Sarah, I'm surprised anyone who roots for female characters on television could be for that.

 

I find it funny because I do think Kate Cassiday is doing a better job this season, compared to the stinker of her character last season(and the last half of season 1)...And than we have Colton "one facial expression" Haynes and most people never comment on that.

 

But I thik people are going to hate the character no matter what arc she goes on for numerous reasons that are out of control of any writing they could do for the character or any acting improvement Kate Cassiday could make. I thought she did well in both the AA scene and the hospital scene but yeah...w.e.

Edited October 23, 2014 by XtremeOne1

[statsgirl]

 

 Seems like Ray wanted those files for some kind of weapon?  Hmm....

 

It would be really funny if Ray wanted QC for the weapon Applied Sciences was developing and Oliver, it's former CEO, had no clue it was there.  And Isabel was the one who ordered it.

Can't stand that they didn't let Oliver and Felicity have a scene about Barry or about where she's working.  The more they cut from that relationship the angrier I get about Laurel being in the show.

Yes. They're doing a good job of not forcing Laurel into Team Arrow (Oliver won't teach her to fight because Sara wouldn't approve (awwwww); Felicity calling her out on not being favor friends) but they do need to put in some Oliver/Felicity scenes back in.

 

 

If anything I was taken aback by Felicity being sort of rude to Laurel with the "Are we favor friends? Are we even friends"...Who says that to someone?

Someone who is being interrupted in a meeting with her boss in order to do something the other person could easily do herself, and having nothing to do with Arrow business.  Especially when they're not friends in the first place.  (Diggle took Felicity for granted too but at least it was about saving his family.)

 

I'm okay with Laurel and Felicity having a friendlier relationship later on, but Laurel has to respect Felicity, and treat her with respect, first.

Edited October 23, 2014 by statsgirl

[Velocity23]

 

"I need your help to find someone by Googling his phone… or something."

  Guess no one in the D.A. office could help huh?

[KenyaJ]

Meh. There were individual parts of this episode I liked, but the show just isn't clicking for me right now. Everything feels off.  I know all the reasons why, but being able to identify them isn't making me feel any better about the situation.

 

Was I supposed to feel sympathy for Laurel after she got knocked the fuck out. As a lawyer, I’m outraged that a fucking ADA thinks it’s acceptable to go around assaulting people when she feels like it. I’m also outraged that she doesn't know what perjury is and that she feels comfortable demanding favors of Felicity, who is neither her employee nor her friend. I just … I hate her so much. And everything the show does to try and make me not hate her just makes me hate her even more. I give up.

 

I’ve always liked Thea, because Willa Holland makes her imminently likable to me, and I’m really glad to have her back and excited to see where her storyline goes. The time jump and being around Malcolm makes her a believable badass to me. When she held that sword to Malcolm’s throat, I wanted to clap.

 

I actually did clap when Felicity got her new office and her new EA. I spent the whole summer hoping she’s be doing something involving applied sciences, and I’m glad the show didn’t let me down on that front, at least.

Edited October 23, 2014 by KenyaJ

[strikera0]

I didn't think it was possible, but Laurel and Ted may have even less chemistry than Oliver/Laurel and JR Ramirez' acting didn't impress me either. What a downer.

 

The Thea/Oliver and the Thea/Merlyn scenes were the highlights of the episode for me. More of that, please.

Edited October 23, 2014 by strikera0

[Tallis]

Also, Roy has so been on a plane before (because comics). Granted he fell out of it almost immediately but still...

[wonderwall]

And I also don't think Laurel was a bitch to Felicity. If anything I was taken aback by Felicity being sort of rude to Laurel with the "Are we favor friends? Are we even friends"...Who says that to someone? Especially Felciity who is usually Miss. Nice.  Hope they do build a friendship between them. The DC-TV verse is lacking in any sort of female friendships, especially now that Sarah is dead. But I guess I'm the only one here who thought that since people LOVE that Felicity was snippy to her. Given the machoism of Arrow, and the death of Sarah, I'm surprised anyone who roots for female characters on television could be for that.

Completely disagree. Obviously :p I mean, who barks orders at people they barely know? Laurel could've asked Felicity for a favor, but she didn't. She said she needed a favor like Felicity worked for Laurel. If someone talked to me like that I would be super pissed. Felicity's reaction was on point. Because they aren't friends and Laurel shouldn't order her around like that. I gave her a pass last week, but I won't do it this week. 

 

I thought Laurel had her moments, I really liked her in the AA meeting. But everytime I start liking her they make her do and say stupid stuff that makes me hate her. That's not me hating her for the sake of hating her. That's me not liking how she's being characterized and how she never thinks before she acts. She never thinks about Quentin or what her actions would do to him, she never thinks of the possible ramifications of her actions (thus shown in this episode)... It's just frustrating. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by wonderwall

[Tangerine]

I didn't have any issues with what Felicity said. It was a legitimate question to ask since as far as we know, the only interactions she's had with Laurel involved Laurel bossing her around. Plus, I think her delivery was more playful than anything.

[ban1o]

I actually agree about Felicity's response being kind of OOC I didn't think she would react that way. 

[XtremeOne1]

It would be really funny if Ray wanted QC for the weapon Applied Sciences was developing and Oliver, it's former CEO, had no clue it was there.  And Isabel was the one who ordered it.

Yes. They're doing a good job of not forcing Laurel into Team Arrow (Oliver won't teach her to fight because Sara wouldn't approve (awwwww); Felicity calling her out on not being favor friends) but they do need to put in some Oliver/Felicity scenes back in.

 

Someone who is being interrupted in a meeting with her boss being asked for someone the other person could easily do herself.  Especially when they're not friends in the first place.

 

Umm how did Laurel now Felicity was in a meeting with her boss? And considering Felicity is a semi-superhero/Oracle-light, calling her out of the blue isn't far fetched.

 

And I don't get the comments that Laurel coming more into a role means less Felicitya and less Felicity/Oliver(umm last episode they had a huge emotional scene together).

 

This is one of my major problems with fandom and shipping. Since it tends to be female centric, it creates a lot of animosity towards female characters. I mean, what's going on that where mad that Laurel called Felicity for a favor. I want this to happen, especially considering Felicity is this world's Oracle and Babara and Dinah were best friends in the comics. HAving that relationship develop would be amazing.

 

But there is this Laurel vs Felicity divide that's just disappointing. I get a lot of people want Felicity and Oliver(not me. Felicity is my favorite character and I fear what a relationship with Oliver could do to her development), but yeah...it sucks that's how people see it.

[apinknightmare]

I thought Laurel had her moments, I really liked her in the AA meeting. But everytime I start liking her they make her do and say stupid stuff that makes me hate her. That's not me hating her for the sake of hating her. 

 

Yeah, I liked her in the AA scene too. I wish they had just let her have her moment instead of having that abused woman share her story, because I was completely taken out of it because all I could think was, "Gah...she's going to try to kick that guys ass now, what an idiot."

 

Also, she missed her chance to tell Quentin that Sara died. If he'd forgive anything, he'd forgive it with his daughter in a hospital bed all beat up. Ugh.

[ban1o]

Oh and wonderwall I really don't think Ray will be evil :P The writers will be stupid to do the exact same storyline with the same actor. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

I actually agree about Felicity's response being kind of OOC I didn't think she would react that way. 

 

I'll write it off because a) I didn't think it was that bad, considering we've never seen Laurel actually being friendly toward her, only asking her to do things for her, and b) she was a bit frazzled with all those calls coming in when she was right there with her boss. She told Diggle it was a bad time too, so clearly nerves were at play.

Edited October 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

I actually agree about Felicity's response being kind of OOC I didn't think she would react that way. 

Felicity doesn't take anyone's crap and she tends to get frazzled and snappy when she has 500 things to do. I don't think it was OOC at all. Hmm. 

Oh and wonderwall I really don't think Ray will be evil :P The writers will be stupid to do the exact same storyline with the same actor. 

BUT EVIL FACE AND EVIL BLUEPRINTS! :p 

 

No I kid. I think this is him trying to be a hero and destroying the plan on those blue prints. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by wonderwall

[ostentatious]

Since their prior encounters have involved Laurel giving her eat shit and die looks or summarily dismissing her from her own secret lair, I think Felicity's response to being called at work on business unrelated to Team Arrow and tasked by Laurel was quite reasonable.

[XtremeOne1]

Completely disagree. Obviously :p I mean, who barks orders at people they barely know? Laurel could've asked Felicity for a favor, but she didn't. She said she needed a favor like Felicity worked for Laurel. If someone talked to me like that I would be super pissed. Felicity's reaction was on point. Because they aren't friends and Laurel shouldn't order her around like that. I gave her a pass last week, but I won't do it this week. 

 

I thought Laurel had her moments, I really liked her in the AA meeting. But everytime I start liking her they make her do and say stupid stuff that makes me hate her. That's not me hating her for the sake of hating her. That's me not liking how she's being characterized and how she never thinks before she acts. She never thinks about Quentin or what her actions would do to him, she never thinks of the possible ramifications of her actions (thus shown in this episode)... It's just frustrating. 

 

I could bet a $1 million dollars if that was Roy, no one would comment. I'm sticking with that. 

 

And I'm sorry but why should she think about Quentin. Since when is that a problem for a Superhero's origin. I don't here anyone saying, "But Peter isn't thinking about poor Aunt May! Oliver isn't thinking about Thea or his mom!" I mean, why is that Laurel needs to think of her father? Yes, he's sick but Aunt May was an old woman, anything happened to Peter it would kill her. And Thea would break if Oliver dies(or she would before her training), so where are the cries of for Oliver to stop?

 

I just find it funny that Oliver tells Laurel "Think about your dad" when Oliver never one thought about anyone else in his quest. That's the hero life. There is a line of selfishness in people like Peter Parker, Oliver Queen and other heroes with secret identities and a family. So why is Laurel an exception to the rule?

[Writing Wrongs]

LOL @ Laurel's epic fail as a vigilante.

 

That stunt double was so obvious during the Thea/Malcolm fight that it took me straight out of it.

 

There was a lot going on in this episode.

 

Isn't Ray a good guy?

[apinknightmare]

This is one of my major problems with fandom and shipping. Since it tends to be female centric, it creates a lot of animosity towards female characters. I mean, what's going on that where mad that Laurel called Felicity for a favor. I want this to happen, especially considering Felicity is this world's Oracle and Babara and Dinah were best friends in the comics. HAving that relationship develop would be amazing.

 

But there is this Laurel vs Felicity divide that's just disappointing. I get a lot of people want Felicity and Oliver(not me. Felicity is my favorite character and I fear what a relationship with Oliver could do to her development), but yeah...it sucks that's how people see it.

 

I'd see your point if people disliked Laurel because of the ship. But people disliked Laurel pre-ship, in fact that dislike is one of the reasons the ship even exists.

 

I'd like to see them be friendly, but I don't have a problem with Felicity calling her out for asking for a favor, because Felicity and Laurel don't know each other, and all last episode Laurel was calling the shots (which Felicity followed, because she was desperate to catch the guy who killed Sara, too). I don't mind her standing up for herself, and clearly she did what Laurel asked, so...

[Lord Kira]

Why can't Thea be Black Canary? It's already more believable than Laurel. Laurel is more like "Selfish Canary".

[Orion]

Umm how did Laurel now Felicity was in a meeting with her boss? And considering Felicity is a semi-superhero/Oracle-light, calling her out of the blue isn't far fetched.

 

And I don't get the comments that Laurel coming more into a role means less Felicitya and less Felicity/Oliver(umm last episode they had a huge emotional scene together).

 

This is one of my major problems with fandom and shipping. Since it tends to be female centric, it creates a lot of animosity towards female characters. I mean, what's going on that where mad that Laurel called Felicity for a favor. I want this to happen, especially considering Felicity is this world's Oracle and Babara and Dinah were best friends in the comics. HAving that relationship develop would be amazing.

 

But there is this Laurel vs Felicity divide that's just disappointing. I get a lot of people want Felicity and Oliver(not me. Felicity is my favorite character and I fear what a relationship with Oliver could do to her development), but yeah...it sucks that's how people see it

 

Actually my problems have absolutely nothing to do with who I prefer together romantically in the show and has absolutely everything to do with the character created by the writers and the problems I have with the actress playing her. And honestly I find it insulting to be told why I don't like something. And really insulting to be told that this is a female problem.

 

Laurel's character has been a failure since Episode one, season one, let me direct you to the Laurel Lance tag where her character and why we each have problems with her are talked about. 

 

As far as shipping goes, Olicity wouldn't exist in the numbers it has if Lauriver wasn't completely rejected by a larger majority of the fans. Lauriver not working came first before Olicity was even something on the screen.

 

My problem with Laurel this episode is she is a DA with her own assistant, her own staff, her own computer and her own phone. Felicity is not her employee, friend or servant. She can get her own damn information. Like Oliver did before he ASKED Felicity to join Team Arrow.

[Tangerine]

Umm how did Laurel now Felicity was in a meeting with her boss? And considering Felicity is a semi-superhero/Oracle-light, calling her out of the blue isn't far fetched.

And I don't get the comments that Laurel coming more into a role means less Felicitya and less Felicity/Oliver(umm last episode they had a huge emotional scene together).

This is one of my major problems with fandom and shipping. Since it tends to be female centric, it creates a lot of animosity towards female characters. I mean, what's going on that where mad that Laurel called Felicity for a favor. I want this to happen, especially considering Felicity is this world's Oracle and Babara and Dinah were best friends in the comics. HAving that relationship develop would be amazing.

But there is this Laurel vs Felicity divide that's just disappointing. I get a lot of people want Felicity and Oliver(not me. Felicity is my favorite character and I fear what a relationship with Oliver could do to her development), but yeah...it sucks that's how people see it.

I can only speak for myself, but the issue I have with Laurel is strictly how her own character has been written and portrayed, not because it takes away from Felicity/Oliver. The problem is, Laurel's characterization has been awful, and when you insist on giving attention to a story line that isn't resonating then of course people will be upset that it's taking away screen time from characters and storylines that are working. Felicity and Oliver's relationship has not only been well developed so far, but it's also been an important part of growing both Oliver and Felicity's characters. Laurel thus far hasn't been used properly, her storylines haven't been enjoyable and really her character hasn't contributed much at all to the bigger story.

It's not about setting up one female character against another. I wouldn't mind seeing Laurel and Felicity become friends, but that's the thing....we need to SEE it. So far, all we've seen is Laurel treat Felicity like she works for her. And Felicity, who obviously has self-respect, enough so that we see her tell her new boss under no uncertain terms will she answer late night emails or bring him coffee, question the nature of her relationship with Laurel. So yes, I do see it as in character. And again, delivery makes a huge difference. Felicity wasn't snarky. She was somewhat joking and probably sincerely questioning what was happening. And at the end of the day, she still did it and helped because she asked.

ETA: And once again, when Laurel asks Oliver to train her, she makes it about herself. The writers make Laurel self-centred and it's hard to root for her. I'm glad Oliver mentioned Quentin because between not telling him about Sara's death, I feel like nobody's been considering him in all of this. Also, the guy getting arrested because of an anonymous tip just undermines and highlights Laurel's foolishness for going after the guy.

ETA2: I also don't like the suggestion that a female character is disliked because she threatens a ship. Women are not duty bound to like or root for every woman on screen. We're capable of separating a character that should stand on her own merits from a relationship that we're interested in seeing succeed. Especially if that character has been problematically written and portrayed.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Tangerine

[Actionmage]

Jerry Conway is Felicity's Executive Assistant! I just can't! *G* (Big DC writer, for those not in the know.)  loved her ' What Looks Like Crazy' day. I nodded with her re: Laurel & favor friends. Not exactly, but Felicity is cool. Ray's look of 'Srsly?' was great. (Mr. Routh's eyes really seemed red-rimmed in his first scene, so kudos to Make-up or BR going Method on us.)

 

Loved that Thea was Mia, so no doubt going by 'Mia Dearden'; at least in my head cannon. Yet, the very contrived coffee spill? That she didn't just flip out and have a big reaction is supposed to be a red flag? Granted, I don't drink coffee, but I've burnt my tongue on enough nuclear hot chocolate and reacted about as minorly as Thea.  Was Thea such a china doll that she should be flapping and squawking?  I also find it hard to believe that Oliver didn't have Felicity run down everything related to that residence after his first meeting with Thea.  Oliver should have some inkling that the shoe is on the other foot and Thea is keeping her cards close to the vest. That he felt the need to ask Roy, I think, is telling in how lost he feels now about Thea.

 

John and Lyla and Little Sara are wonderful together. Too bad Lyla is still employed by Waller. Maybe Mark Shaw (!!!) can come to Star City and meet Laurel.  I sort of wanted Lyla to show up and ask Shaw if, because she gave birth,he thought she couldn't kick his ass. Selling out supposed friends and co-workers to get away from Waller and ARGUS is drastic, plausible, but still Bad Form. No need to drag other spooks and SOs and kids into your morality crisis.  Lyla having a crisis of conscience is bound to happen this season; it's just a matter of before or after the Christmas break, imo.

 

The Merlyn/Thea flashbacks were good, of course. It highlighted that Thea still has her edge and a healthy salt lick of distrust when it concerns her birth father. I am very intrigued as to how she handles Star City and the gang. Will she want to go back to the high-living she had about twenty years of living and enjoying (mostly) or will she favor a simpler, more "normal" life? She's so well know, will she attempt the Mia Dearden persona?  Just very excited about her being back in town!

 

Nice segues into Felicity on The Flash and next week's episode here!  Nyssa needs to learn about not drawing down on your host in his own secret lair. It's rude and asking nicely is generally better recieved with Oliver.

 

Ted Grant. He's nice to look at and wants to help folks who get a raw deal. Cool. He is as intimidated by Laurel as we on the boards are, so hopefully, that stays. At least for a while and where appropo.

 

Quentin! Look, he's talking general common sense and being a concerned dad! He asked for Truth! He's still in the dark about his youngest daughter! (Sara's death was All About Laurel and Laurel's feels, but of course.)

 

Laurel is done no favors by the writing staff. She is written as super-dense about how to deal with the implied contract of an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. "When we start bringing badges to meetings, that's when the drunks leave." Indeed sir! I understand wanting to help her fellow AA member, but going "thug" and trash talk with not enough to back it up was foolish, especially when she could've done the anonymous tip earlier. (Unless it was Quentin with the tip and he didn't do it until he saw  Laurel in the  hospital.) Her speech about having a fire was eye-roll worthy, but I just didn't care. It was like Oliver was the mouthpiece for most folks objections as to why Laurel, at this time, should not go vigilante. If she had a fire due to Sara's death, then shouldn't it burn more hotly or feel warm when she was 'avenging' her AA friend? As opposed to not feeling it?  (Fire= need to act; burning hotter= finding her passion/ warmth= it's the right thing/ comfortable, correct symbol-deciphering folks/ Lit. students?)

 

I liked the feel of Corto Maltese. I hope it is a place we can visit from time to time. It is a nice break from Star City and Lien Yu. I just wish they'd cut back on the yellow filter, as it gave me flashbacks to CSI:Miami and that's almost as bad as working for Waller.

 

Excited for next week!!

[statsgirl]

Yes, I thought it was in character for Felicity too.  She always calls people on their crap, from Oliver on down, including Moira.  Including Walter when she thought he wanted to fire her.

Umm how did Laurel now Felicity was in a meeting with her boss? And considering Felicity is a semi-superhero/Oracle-light, calling her out of the blue isn't far fetched.

It was during working hours.  Did Laurel assume Felicity doesn't have a job and is free to work on vigilante business all the time?  What does she think Felicity lives on, or doesn't she think about Felicity like that?  Friends do.

 

Even if it were true that Felicity spends all her day on computers working for team Arrow, Laurel isn't on Team Arrow yet.  It was a favor and if Laurel couldn't do it herself, she should have 1) asked if this was an okay time for Felicity to talk and 2) asked after work, not while Felicity was at work.  (I have friends to whom it never occurs to ask me if this is an okay time to talk and I HATE it.)

 

 

I could bet a $1 million dollars if that was Roy, no one would comment. I'm sticking with that.

You'd lose. If you look at my post above, I complained that Diggle was doing it too. But at least Diggle was doing it in order to save his family.  Laurel was doing it because she wanted to be Sara and assumed that she could use Felicity because Oliver did.

Edited October 23, 2014 by statsgirl

[bluemapleleaf]

Gah! There is so much I love about this show and then LL appears.

I can't remember the last time I loathed a character as much as I loath Laurel.

The 3 Amigos were great, Thea kicked ass and Felicity's new job rocked.

Laurel pulls me out of the groove every. Single. Time.

Edited October 23, 2014 by bluemapleleaf

[wonderwall]

I could bet a $1 million dollars if that was Roy, no one would comment. I'm sticking with that. 

 

And I'm sorry but why should she think about Quentin. Since when is that a problem for a Superhero's origin. I don't here anyone saying, "But Peter isn't thinking about poor Aunt May! Oliver isn't thinking about Thea or his mom!" I mean, why is that Laurel needs to think of her father? Yes, he's sick but Aunt May was an old woman, anything happened to Peter it would kill her. And Thea would break if Oliver dies(or she would before her training), so where are the cries of for Oliver to stop?

 

I just find it funny that Oliver tells Laurel "Think about your dad" when Oliver never one thought about anyone else in his quest. That's the hero life. There is a line of selfishness in people like Peter Parker, Oliver Queen and other heroes with secret identities and a family. So why is Laurel an exception to the rule?

Lmaooo I don't like Roy at all. And I can say for everyone on this board that we would be side eyeing the hell out of him if he ordered Felicity around like that. That would be so uncalled for. i'm pretty sure if he did that I would be thinking "who the hell does he think he is?".  Can I haz my $1 million now? 

 

She should think about Quentin because she loves him? Because her getting hurt affects him? If her excuse for not telling him about Sara was because she was afraid it'll cause him a heart attack, then what's her excuse for getting the shit beaten out of her? It's stupid and it's inconsistent. If Quentin's well being is so important to her that she would take away his RIGHT to bury his daughter, it should also be an important factor when she goes out and gets beaten up. 

 

We aren't talking about Peter Parker (I disagreed with his decision as well). And we all know Oliver is a hypocrite. That's been known for years. The whole argument that other people did it too is such a fallacy. Justifying  Laurel's behavior by saying "but peter did it and Oliver did it too" doesn't make what she did any better. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

I could bet a $1 million dollars if that was Roy, no one would comment. I'm sticking with that. 

 

And I'm sorry but why should she think about Quentin. Since when is that a problem for a Superhero's origin. I don't here anyone saying, "But Peter isn't thinking about poor Aunt May! Oliver isn't thinking about Thea or his mom!" I mean, why is that Laurel needs to think of her father? Yes, he's sick but Aunt May was an old woman, anything happened to Peter it would kill her. And Thea would break if Oliver dies(or she would before her training), so where are the cries of for Oliver to stop?

 

I just find it funny that Oliver tells Laurel "Think about your dad" when Oliver never one thought about anyone else in his quest. That's the hero life. There is a line of selfishness in people like Peter Parker, Oliver Queen and other heroes with secret identities and a family. So why is Laurel an exception to the rule?

 

Oliver also came off of 5 years of torture and hell that molded him into the kind of guy he was when he first came home (who probably didn't care if he died), whereas Laurel's standing there making a choice to try to live that kind of life because it "puts out a fire" or whatever and he's trying to talk her out of it. He's using Quentin as a bargaining chip, hoping she'll change her mind, trying to make her realize she might be making a mistake. "Think of (whoever)" is a pretty common tool to use when trying to talk someone out of doing something stupid with their life.

[Angel12d]

This is one of my major problems with fandom and shipping. Since it tends to be female centric, it creates a lot of animosity towards female characters. I mean, what's going on that where mad that Laurel called Felicity for a favor. I want this to happen, especially considering Felicity is this world's Oracle and Babara and Dinah were best friends in the comics. HAving that relationship develop would be amazing.

 

But there is this Laurel vs Felicity divide that's just disappointing. I get a lot of people want Felicity and Oliver(not me. Felicity is my favorite character and I fear what a relationship with Oliver could do to her development), but yeah...it sucks that's how people see it.

 

It is completely valid to have problems with Laurel that have nothing to do with wanting Felicity/Oliver together. If Laurel was a dude I'd still have the same issues with the character as I do now and that's because the writing SUCKS. It's a complete mess. Shipping has zero to do with it. I'm all for some female friendships on this show (Felicity could do with some friends) but there needs to be some build up to it first and we've not been shown any Felicity/Laurel interaction that would suggest they are even remotely on friendly terms. 

[opus]

Jerry Conway is Felicity's Executive Assistant! I just can't! *G* (Big DC writer, for those not in the know.)  loved her ' What Looks Like Crazy' day. I nodded with her re: Laurel & favor friends. Not exactly, but Felicity is cool. Ray's look of 'Srsly?' was great. (Mr. Routh's eyes really seemed red-rimmed in his first scene, so kudos to Make-up or BR going Method on us.)

 

Loved that Thea was Mia, so no doubt going by 'Mia Dearden'; at least in my head cannon. Yet, the very contrived coffee spill? That she didn't just flip out and have a big reaction is supposed to be a red flag? Granted, I don't drink coffee, but I've burnt my tongue on enough nuclear hot chocolate and reacted about as minorly as Thea.  Was Thea such a china doll that she should be flapping and squawking?  I also find it hard to believe that Oliver didn't have Felicity run down everything related to that residence after his first meeting with Thea.  Oliver should have some inkling that the shoe is on the other foot and Thea is keeping her cards close to the vest. That he felt the need to ask Roy, I think, is telling in how lost he feels now about Thea.

 

John and Lyla and Little Sara are wonderful together. Too bad Lyla is still employed by Waller. Maybe Mark Shaw (!!!) can come to Star City and meet Laurel.  I sort of wanted Lyla to show up and ask Shaw if, because she gave birth,he thought she couldn't kick his ass. Selling out supposed friends and co-workers to get away from Waller and ARGUS is drastic, plausible, but still Bad Form. No need to drag other spooks and SOs and kids into your morality crisis.  Lyla having a crisis of conscience is bound to happen this season; it's just a matter of before or after the Christmas break, imo.

 

The Merlyn/Thea flashbacks were good, of course. It highlighted that Thea still has her edge and a healthy salt lick of distrust when it concerns her birth father. I am very intrigued as to how she handles Star City and the gang. Will she want to go back to the high-living she had about twenty years of living and enjoying (mostly) or will she favor a simpler, more "normal" life? She's so well know, will she attempt the Mia Dearden persona?  Just very excited about her being back in town!

 

Nice segues into Felicity on The Flash and next week's episode here!  Nyssa needs to learn about not drawing down on your host in his own secret lair. It's rude and asking nicely is generally better recieved with Oliver.

 

Ted Grant. He's nice to look at and wants to help folks who get a raw deal. Cool. He is as intimidated by Laurel as we on the boards are, so hopefully, that stays. At least for a while and where appropo.

 

Quentin! Look, he's talking general common sense and being a concerned dad! He asked for Truth! He's still in the dark about his youngest daughter! (Sara's death was All About Laurel and Laurel's feels, but of course.)

 

Laurel is done no favors by the writing staff. She is written as super-dense about how to deal with the implied contract of an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting. "When we start bringing badges to meetings, that's when the drunks leave." Indeed sir! I understand wanting to help her fellow AA member, but going "thug" and trash talk with not enough to back it up was foolish, especially when she could've done the anonymous tip earlier. (Unless it was Quentin with the tip and he didn't do it until he saw  Laurel in the  hospital.) Her speech about having a fire was eye-roll worthy, but I just didn't care. It was like Oliver was the mouthpiece for most folks objections as to why Laurel, at this time, should not go vigilante. If she had a fire due to Sara's death, then shouldn't it burn more hotly or feel warm when she was 'avenging' her AA friend? As opposed to not feeling it?  (Fire= need to act; burning hotter= finding her passion/ warmth= it's the right thing/ comfortable, correct symbol-deciphering folks/ Lit. students?)

 

I liked the feel of Corto Maltese. I hope it is a place we can visit from time to time. It is a nice break from Star City and Lien Yu. I just wish they'd cut back on the yellow filter, as it gave me flashbacks to CSI:Miami and that's almost as bad as working for Waller.

 

Excited for next week!!

Slight correction. It's Gerry Conway (with a "G").

[quarks]

Considerably less depressing than last week. So already a plus!

 

Good things:

 

1. I can't believe I am typing this, but, Ray.  Congrats, writers and Brandon Routh, you may have won me over just a little bit with that office scene with everyone calling Felicity and Routh just standing there, perfectly cool. And then you had to remind me that Ray is actually all evil and mostly interested in weapons, but, still. Triple bonus for explaining just why he was willing to spend that much money to get Felicity (and hire an EA for her AND give her Walter/Oliver's old office AND ignore the fact that she was clearly planning to do mildly unethical things from QC's office in a ten second bit.  Quadruple bonus for doing this while saving money on sets. Well done. Still don't want Felicity and Roy anywhere near anything resembling romance, but you got me a lot more intrigued and slightly less AUUGH on the stalking.

 

2. Felicity, in that office scene. Bonus points for the incredulous, "Are we favor friends now? Even friends?"

 

3. Oh, NOES, everyone, the QUEENS HAVE TO FLY COMMERCIAL.  FEEL THE ANGST. No wonder Thea didn't remember to pretend to notice the coffee.

 

4. Oliver finally telling Thea the truth about Robert's suicide. Really touching scene on both sides.

 

5. Roy, unlike every other freaking guy on this show, not trying to tell the other woman what she's really feeling, but accepting that what she says she's feeling is what she's really feeling. Roy, stand up, because you have just vaulted into the temporary ranks of one of my favorite characters. It won't last, but yay on you now.

 

Also, who on earth would have predicted ROY as the healthiest breakup person on this show? Roy! I take back all of the many many many mean things I said about you earlier. 

 

6. Malcolm Merlyn. This is evil. This is excellent.

 

7. Thea's plotline. This. Sounds. Fun.

 

8. Macgyvering up the arrows. That was hilarious.  I sincerely hope none of you paid by credit card though because is THAT hotel going to try to jump on you for the charges.

 

9. Oooh, tension between our perfect couple Lyla and Diggle! And over something pretty profound too.

 

10. NYSSA IS BACK AND SHE IS WILLING TO SHOOT PEOPLE!

 

11. And Felicity remains part of Team Arrow; watching her juggle this with her job should be fun.  Plus sorta helps justify Oliver's whole "secret identity" thing with making her his EA last year - see, Felicity, people DO notice these sorts of conversations.

 

12. Somebody ELSE besides me hates Amanda Waller so much that he can justify killing cute little babies from this hatred alone. I get you, dude, I totally get you. And now I feel the show gets me, at least with Amanda Waller.

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Ted Grant. Dude, you were going great until you started getting all condescending on Laurel and mansplaining stuff to her...wait, it's Laurel. We're good. Carry on!  

 

2. I thought, from Oliver's expression, that Felicity had told him at some point that she'd accepted the job, but the script didn't make that clear, and should have.

 

Bad things:

 

1. Amanda Waller is still alive. I sense that I am going to be typing that under bad things for awhile. 

 

And now, Laurel:

 

Show.

 

I'm trying to give this character a break.  Really, I am. And we were getting there this episode.  Sure, the anvils during her meeting with Ted Grant and the AA meeting were, shall we say, heavy, but I thought her bit about having issues with anger was fine, and I actually liked that she was motivated by a need to protect women (even if that's kinda stolen from Sara, but let's move on.)  And then:

 

1. Yes, Laurel, it's called Alcoholics Anonymous for a reason. I'm with Quentin on that one.

 

2. Calling Felicity and treating her like a research assistant. Now, to be fair to Laurel, this was set up to be played for laughs and make Ray (even more) suspicious, thus the lack of "Is this a good time?" but here's the problem: one, it was so in character for Laurel that I didn't bat an eye, which is another in character note that this character is set up to be demanding, and two, Laurel, unlike Diggle, was not having an emergency.

 

3. Going out with just a ski mask on which....

 

....4. And deciding she could be a vigilante with just a big stick.  I know this is the traditional part of the superhero journey especially for those without actual super powers, and they have to fail first and try try again, but at least Oliver and Sara and Thea were all forced into failing. They didn't choose it. Plus, she'd just been told that she needs to learn to fight.

 

5. And then, failing.  Which means that this is 49 straight episodes of this character failing at things. Show, I am reaching my limit. 

 

6. Going to Oliver and demanding training when her face looks like crap, as a visual reminder of how easily she could get hurt, just a week or so after her sister's death. Laurel! Unless he has no feelings at all, he's still mourning your sister who DIED because she did stuff like this. Now is not the time!  At least wait until your face heals! 

 

On the bright side, I'm very glad that some fan concerns were addressed: the "are Laurel and Felicity going to be instant friends?" (apparently not), the "will Laurel just be part of Team Arrow now?" (also apparently not), "will Laurel and Oliver be working together?"  (at least not for a few more episodes.)

 

For what it's worth, I'm fine with Felicity and Laurel being friends; I just think they have to work up to it.

Edited October 23, 2014 by quarks

[KenyaJ]

We all know that shipping makes us wimmins so irrational, but I'm looking forward to an equally patronizing and insulting reason why the non-Olicity shippers among us also dislike Laurel so much. 

[El Seed]

I'd totally watch a DIY show featuring Oliver making bows and arrows out of household items.

 

I'm absolutely thrilled that Felicity has a job that's appropriate for her skills. And she'll work in that office more than Oliver ever did, that's for sure.

 

I seriously loved everything in Corto Maltese: Thea/Oliver, Thea/Merlyn, Diggle being a BAMF. Also: "That's what my Glock is for."

 

Laurel's storyline...can I return it and demand a refund? I'm not enjoying this hard push for her to be the BC, Goughlar 2.0.

 

I'm liking Ray so far, so don't let me down writers.

[ban1o]

Is it just me who thought that Ray didn't know what was on the drive and was surprised to find  these advanced technologies and weapon stuff? 

Edited October 23, 2014 by ban1o