S03.E03: Corto Maltese

[Pyramid]

I found Roy to be very grounded and pulled in this episode. Usually he's wound up tight, usually angry, but Colton Haynes was definitely showing Roy as 'tired and grounded'. Maybe Roy is kind of mourning Sara still? Which is only slightly odd, as I didn't think the two were that close. Or it's just that Roy was worried about Thea. 

 

I would add my two cents in on Xtreme's posts on Laurel/Felicity, but I think everyone else has said it all, so I'll just nod and say 'I agree!'. 

 

I didn't mind Laurel calling Felicity, just as I didn't mind Felicity calling her out on it. It's a legitimate question and if someone like Amanda Waller called Felicity, I'd have the exact same reaction as Felicity would. 

 

I did fast forward through most of Laurel's scenes. I don't think she's doing a horrible job (the writing really is the major problem), but she still isn't likeable for me enough to care about her character's journey. Yes, a part of that is attributed with Katie Cassidy's acting, but the writing for Laurel has been all over the place so I can't find it in me to care that much about her. I did like that Oliver wouldn't train Laurel because Sara wouldn't want him to. For all of Oliver's faults, he does care about people. He just makes some occasional bad decisions of not telling people things to protect them. Laurel, in the meantime, is probably going to break her promise to Quentin and go fight crime again, because it 'gets rid of the fire inside me'. That's just bad writing all around. So, my opinion of Laurel is me wanting to give her a chance, and I think Katie does some occasional good work, but the writing and some of her own acting choices make it hard for me to let go of the last two seasons with her. 

 

Felicity having her own EP was really sweet and I don't mind her working with Ray. I think he's an intriguing character and he is treating her like an equal. 

 

Sara Digglet is so adorable that I just want to squeeze her and never let her grow up. 

 

Thea/Oliver scenes were well done. Thea is the last family member that Oliver has and I'm glad he finally went to go get her. The scene where he tells her about Robert was well done because she may have been shocked and possibly angry, but she still listened to Oliver and made the choice to come home. I'm hoping Oliver continues to tell her things bit by bit. I think that will be a good way of easing her into things. Also, I see Thea's journey to become a hero much better written and performed than Laurel's. Maybe because Barrowman is attached to Thea's journey. Hmm. Maybe if Laurel was Merlyn's protoge, we could like her more. Probably not. 

 

Ted Grant is boring as hell, sorry to say. I don't really like his character. Actually, scratch that. I like the character and what he stands for, but I'm surprisingly underwhelmed by the actor. 

I agree, which is the second time that has happened. First time with Sara, and we saw how that ended. No reason for it to end that way this time, but it is unfortunate the writers chose to do it this way. It just kind of highlights the deficiencies in the writing and acting of Laurel.

[KenyaJ]

She's the Whack Canary, and no amount of training from Ted Grant will change that. 

 

I didn't think I could possibly love anything more than "Canary Sue," but "Whack Canary?" I can't stop laughing. I've mostly been calling her "Fetch," because the show keeps trying to make her happen, but Whack Canary is my new jam.

 

- I think the EPs made a mistake in making Laurel a lawyer.  She's a terrible lawyer - incompetent and unethical.

 

Last week, my boss administered the Oath of Attorney to a co-worker who had just passed the bar. It was a great reminder of everything attorneys aspire to be -- especially those of us who work within the various apparatuses of the justice system. Watching Laurel shit all over that every week is infuriating, honestly. I wouldn't care so much if she was back at CNRI or some other form of private practice, but it's really appalling to see someone who works in the district attorney's office behave the way she does. The show would be better off having her decide to give up the law altogether.

[catrox14]

is the second episode in a row to have the following pattern: Laurel gets angry and wants to do something. Man tells Laurel not to do said something. Laurel does it anyway and ends up screwing it up/needing rescue/getting hurt. It's the classic trope of Angry Woman doesn't listen to a man, and needs to be taught a lesson, and unfortunately, it's something we've seen many times with Laurel on this show, all the way back to episode two, and the overall sense is that no, Laurel is not learning from her mistakes: she has to be taught the same lesson over and over/\

 

I think it's reading this way because of the character herself. I don't think the show makes a habit of this trope. Other female characters have ignored the warnings of men and they were actually heroic in the end.

 

I think they were trying to show us what a brave if ill-advised badass thing it was that Laurel tried to take down that abusive dickbag.  I hate that they were trying to prop up Laurel as being so concerned with this woman's plight when it really was never about Laurel being concerned for her. IMO it was used to try and make me feel sorry for Laurel and think "Well, she was trying to do a good thing". She'll do better the next time. Oh no, let me worry about Laurel".

[Zalyn]

One other thing: I think Laurel and Thea's motivation is essentially the same. Both have been hurt so much and are looking for a way to not be victims any more. But Thea comes off as completely credible (to me, anyway) as a newly fledged bad-ass. I can buy that after five months of training with Malcolm, she can do high level fighting. I'm fairly sure Laurel will not come off as a credible fighter, ever.

While watching the episode, I was concerned that the writers are now using Thea's story to prop up Laurel's (third?) crucible arc.  I really enjoyed Thea's and Malcolm's scenes in all their messed up, hot wax-on-hand*, psycho glory.

 

As far as whether we're ever allowed to laugh or feel satisfaction in a scene where a woman is beaten up, I think that the context and execution matter.  In Battlestar Galactica, Starbuck (woman) gets into a lot of fistfights with men, and they will beat each other up.  It's a bit weird to see, but that is two people fighting as peers, not abuse.**

 

Similarly, if I were to see someone go off half-cocked in a dopey mask and a baseball bat trying to act like a superhero, threaten their target, and start hitting them, they've made it pretty clear that they want a fight and they deserve to get their ass kicked (this is a pretty standard trope in many hero growth stories).  Now, it could get ugly if the person - a woman in this case - is beat up in a stereotypically abusive way - grabbed by the hair, pinned, etc.  But a straight up beat-down in response to her swinging a baseball bat?  Nope, no sympathy, and I will laugh at the failed Buffy attempt. I feel that our ability to have scenes like these where we don't have to feel that the woman is being abused are ways to acknowledge the growing equality that comes from women being stronger, more willing to be physical, and yes, more willing to do stupidly aggressive things we normally attribute to men.

 

Also, "It's like I have a fire inside"???  This only works for a character who previously had no fire/heat.  That character would need to either 1) have always been cool and calm, 2) suffering from major ennui, or 3) become deeply disillusioned and disconnected.  But none of them would actually SAY that; you could use that to describe someone else, though. 

 

* I'm pretty sure that was melted wax he was pouring on the hand, which is painfully hot, but not scalding the way water would be.

** One study I read said that while women often tend to start with physical contact in cases of domestic violence, it's usually a slap or some other non-injurious hitting that is intended to get attention and not to harm.  If that sort of thing happens in a scene, I would be more likely to read it as DV/abuse, but if the woman just winds up and punches/roundhouse kicks/assaults someone, I'd expect the guy to hit back.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Zalyn

[Chicago Redshirt]

Credit where credit is due:

 

Laurel took up a bow and arrow and helped Arrow escape a collapsed tunnel in one of the episodes last season.

 

I think she also got the drop on someone attacking Sara last season. 

 

There are probably a few more situations where she was a help rather than a hindrance. But just a few.

[steelyis]

If that sort of thing happens in a scene, I would be more likely to read it as DV/abuse, but if the woman just winds up and punches/roundhouse kicks/assaults someone, I'd expect the guy to hit back.

 

In a way I wish that asshole had done more damage to Laurel, AND NOT BECAUSE I WANT TO SEE HER HURT, I don't care enough about the character one way or another for that, but because the way he drove off made him seem less dangerous than what was suggested earlier at the AA meeting.

 

In fact, he reacted more rationally than he should have--he hit Laurel just enough to stop her from attacking him then left. He didn't even sound all that mad about being hit repeatedly with a freaking baseball bat! I think it would have left more of an impression if he had taken the bat and fractured her ribs with it. That would have made me flinch and feel like Laurel was in real danger. But they wanted to have Laurel run to Oliver then Ted for training right away so...

 

The whole scene just emphasized how weak and manipulative the scenario was in the first place, as It clearly only happened to set up Laurel's journey, and in no way meant to endanger her beyond a few bruises.

[apinknightmare]

I wouldn't have wanted him to hit her or hurt her any more (watching it was bad enough as it was) but I am surprised that he didn't bother to find out who she was. Then again, he was probably in too much of a hurry to get back to his girl so he could beat the shit out of her for talking to someone about what he did to her.

Good thing Quentin called in that anonymous tip.

[Carrie Ann]

The scene with Laurel at Verdant was kind of confusing. She was sitting there in her self-pity--I mean, her RAGE and GRIEF--and when Oliver walked in, she seemed surprised to see him, and said something like, "I didn't know the Arrow took vacation days." If she wasn't waiting for Oliver, then why would she have been there at all? And if she was waiting for him, then why the faux-surprise? It just looks manipulative, like she wanted his pity and concern, wanted to shock him with the state of her face. I suppose the explanation could be as simple as "KC doesn't understand how to portray being startled out of a reverie" but if that's the case, I'm tired of having to handwave so often for her.

[dtissagirl]

I did not appreciate seeing both Laurel and Thea brutalized in the span of half an hour so their storylines can be furthered. It was disturbing to me, because all it made me think was that these writers believe that the story itself only works from a viewpoint of well, these two women need to be beaten, but it's for the own future good when they become warriors later.

 

I don't find any of this to be interesting, or engaging storytelling.

[Chicago Redshirt]

One thing I do wish we had more insight into: Thea (presumably) knows that Malcolm tried to bury the Glades with his quake machine and in fact killed 500+ people and would have killed more if Arrow and Moira (RIP) hadn't at least partially thwarted his plan by stopping quake machine 1 and by giving a public heads-up to GTFO of the Glades, respectively. She knows that Malcolm is presumed dead.

 

I don't think we've ever really gotten a good answer as to why Thea would go along with Malcolm knowing these things. I mean, I get that she wants to never be victimized again and maybe to an extent she wants to find out about her blood dad. But there are other ways to not get victimized than to share time with crazy pants.

[apinknightmare]

I did not appreciate seeing both Laurel and Thea brutalized in the span of half an hour so their storylines can be furthered. It was disturbing to me, because all it made me think was that these writers believe that the story itself only works from a viewpoint of well, these two women need to be beaten, but it's for the own future good when they become warriors later.

I don't find any of this to be interesting, or engaging storytelling.

Yeah. Laurel's encounter would've been just as effective if she'd somehow been scared to the point where she realized a bat wouldn't cut it and she wasn't quite equipped to defend herself the way she needed to. Maybe if the guy had taken a few swings and she barely got away? She could've still gone to Oliver to ask him to train her, then gone back to Ted and NOT been beaten to the point of hospitalization (or at all).

And I understand what they were going for with Thea, but...yeah, hopefully we don't have to see anything like that again.

Of course, neither one of those scenarios had to play out they way they did for motivational purposes, just trying to figure out a way things could've worked better in the story they did tell.

Edited October 23, 2014 by apinknightmare

[wonderwall]

You actually did see growth within the episode though? She learned (the hard way) that you can't go into a situation with good intentions and a baseball bat and hope to come out the other end okay. She called in an anonymous tip on the woman-beating-douchebag and she signed up to learn how to be a more efficient fighter (by the person who actually trains BC in the comic book. BC never had an assassin-esque background.). She acknowledged that she has issues with channeling grief and sought an alternative method to her previous attempts. That's a character learning from bad choices and making attempts to avoid similar outcomes in the future.

Felicity helping Laurel didn't show that Felicity is a better person, it just showed that Felicity is willing to help someone/Laurel is an attorney and sometimes might need information she can't necessarily obtain through legal means.  (please stop trying to raise up one female character by pushing down another one, in-character-Felicity probably wouldn't be very down for that. She's awesome on her own without the need for comparison)

 

What I did see was Laurel trading in one addiction for another. Rage. I don't consider that as character development. Laurel made a rash decision going after that guy when she could've easily used her powers as the DA to lock him up for good. What was she planning on doing after beating him up? Leaving him there? Laurel was irredeemably stupid. She actually didn't acknowledge she had any issues. She acknowledged that she was a crap fighter and wanted to fuel that 'fire' inside of her. 

 

Felicity helping Laurel after Laurel treated her like her assistant is Felicity being better than Laurel because what does Laurel do for Felicity? When has Laurel ever shown kindness towards her? When has she ever acknowledged her outside of wanting a favor? Felicity is better than Laurel because Felicity is actually a kind person. Laurel isn't. Some pleasantries would've been nice. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by wonderwall

[catrox14]

I did not appreciate seeing both Laurel and Thea brutalized in the span of half an hour so their storylines can be furthered. It was disturbing to me, because all it made me think was that these writers believe that the story itself only works from a viewpoint of well, these two women need to be beaten, but it's for the own future good when they become warriors later.

I don't find any of this to be interesting, or engaging storytelling.

This would bother me more if it weren't for the juxtaposition of Thea with Laurel. Thea was being trained in the manner of many super heroes; pain and suffering, get beaten down to get back up and go. To me whilst it's uncomfortable it is not IMO misogynistic. I thin the context matters. Malcolm would have done the same thing with Tommy because he's crazy.

Laurel was nothing more than a blatant attempt to get us to feel sorry for her and to show that she really isn't prepared for this gig but look she wants to help women. Nah that was an excuse for her to use violence which she's been jonesing for since Sara died. It wasn't because of her doing good not here IMO.

Edited October 23, 2014 by catrox14

[Zalyn]

I did not appreciate seeing both Laurel and Thea brutalized in the span of half an hour so their storylines can be furthered. It was disturbing to me, because all it made me think was that these writers believe that the story itself only works from a viewpoint of well, these two women need to be beaten, but it's for the own future good when they become warriors later.

 

I don't find any of this to be interesting, or engaging storytelling.

I respect and appreciate your perspective on this, and I think that our different responses show that this show is able to engage us on many different emotional and personal levels.

 

It may be that I have a different threshold for what constitutes abuse and brutalizing; I look at power dynamics and motivations/agency of the characters involved.  In the case of Laurel becoming [can't bring myself to say it], that is a very physical, and hand-to-hand based fighter, as is confirmed by Laurel going back to Ted Grant for training.  If you do hand-to-hand fighting training, you will be hit, you will be bruised, and it will at times be brutal.  But if the character chooses to go this route, especially in Laurel's case where there was no real reason to surround herself in that close physical violence, then I weigh the fight scenes and violence through that lens. 

 

Likewise with Thea, I see her choice to go with Merlyn as flawed and ill-advised, and her single-minded focus on becoming strong has consequences.  I liked the little touch with how Merlyn sighed sadly when he "realized" that he couldn't teach her "the easy way."  It's screwed up, but it makes internal sense based on how his character views the world.  The philosophy Merlyn has about pain and life is a valid one; it is just very different from what many would know (it's Eastern-ish).  Based in that perspective, I see Merlyn as valuing and respecting Thea more for trying to train her when he gave up on Tommy for being too weak.  I don't see that as abusive within that context, and the fact that Thea got to leave when she wanted emphasizes even in an American-Western perspective that it's not abuse.

 

TL:DR - If you're going to be a bruiser type of superhero, you're going to get beat up a lot in the process.  Heroes shouldn't get an immunity pass from harm just because they're the heroes.  And different cultural contexts see the same interactions in completely different ways; this is pretty transparently flagged by setpieces, attire, music, and other cues that "Eastern-ish" cultural ideas are being offered to contrast with Western ones.

 

ETA: catrox14 - you beat me to it and were more concise to boot:

 

 

Thus would bother me more if it weren't for the juxtaposition of thea with Laurel. Thea was being trained in the manner of many super heroes pain and suffering, get beaten down to get back k up and go. I To me whilst it's uncomfortable it is not IMO misogynistic. the context matters. Malcolm would have done the same thing with Tommy because he's crazy.

The "uncomfortable" vs. "misogynistic" distinction is a very good one to draw.  There is also a good distinction between "uncomfortable b/c it's challenging our views" and "uncomfortable b/c it's clumsy."

 

ETA2: Someone who knows more about domestic violence and psychology, help me out here if I'm off: most of the time, people who engage in abuse, especially physical abuse, were abused themselves or otherwise had violence done to them.  I would like to think that Laurel would have known that from her CNRI work, making her assault (which it was) on the dirtbag even more poorly advised.  Beating up someone who abused someone does nothing to change them; it just reinforces the value of violence in controlling others.  It is one thing to intervene in an altercation and use violence to neutralize a threat; it is another to just hunt someone down to beat them. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Zalyn

[fantique]

 (please stop trying to raise up one female character by pushing down another one, in-character-Felicity probably wouldn't be very down for that. She's awesome on her own without the need for comparison)

I can only say this for myself but I have never compared Felicity and Laurel in my head. Apples and Oranges to me. Not the same thing. I will answer to people comparing them but they are too different and occupy different roles in the show at any point in time. Also nobody here is "propping up" Felicity to make Laurel look bad, unfortunately she needs no help in that department.

 

This was about discussing how the two parties came across when they were interacting. I have said before that I don't like that the writers seem to be ok with writing Laurel as someone who only cares about others if it benefits her. It is mind-boggling to me that people excuse her being rude as "well, Felicity did the same thing when Oliver was her boss and as part of Team Arrow" and neither apply to Laurel who, as a decently raised and educated adult not facing a life or death situation and with other resources available, should bloody well know better.

Again, with the DV case, it seemed she just wanted a scapegoat for her rage as opposed to genuine indignation. I want Laurel to be better, I want to think of her a decent human being. I will openly admit to not giving 2 shits about the comics, especially when it takes precedence over a character being a human I can stand. For example, while I am unhappy with both Thea and Roy's instant-ninja statuses, there are genuine emotions to ground the ridiculousness of their upgrades. I like Roy better now because they are using CH's strength in being more emotionally connected with the other characters. Willa makes Thea interesting with her cold anger and focus. She is saying that as soon as she decided to leave SC, she ran out of fucks to give and has found the perfect way to keep from being affected/controlled by those stronger than her (I think she is pulling a long con on Daddy Merlyn). 

 

I get that people are excited about her finally being BC but those of us who are not that interested in a character as only a superhero, we are saying that the writing is bad. It does not do Laurel justice and they keep invalidating her, which I hate. Why can't they have her be BC and having good personal moments that aren't a decoy to further the BC agenda. Or at least they should be smart enough to fool me into thinking that's not what they are bluntly shoving down my throat. This episode has exemplified what I have been saying over the summer, the writers and KC's conceptualisation of Laurel is BC only. Since they didn't lay a (solid enough, for me) foundation for her to be suddenly in the streets attacking baddies, it is a mess. They could have had her catch him as he was about to beat the girl and have her intervene. With the same consequences of her learning that while her intentions are great, if she can't handle herself she is doing more harm than good. It would have been more ethical wrt to her being in the DA's office and 100x more heroic than putting on a ski mask and attacking someone from behind. Someone said, and I agree, that Laurel is basically trading one addiction for another and that's not growth (Haha Just saw that wonderwall said that as well). It's one of the other billion changes they made in Laurel's characterisation since she appeared in season 1. Like I said earlier, I actually FF that scene because I didn't want to see her beaten up. It wasn't a fight or honourable for her and I didn't want to see that. I also don't think it's funny or ok to laugh at her being beat up but maybe that's my sense of humour.

 

 Maybe it's a stretch but I didn't feel short changed in how it's been handled, but take my opinion with a grain of salt because I think KC has done a great job with what she's given and this story line. Judging from all the other responses here I'm clearly and idiot. :)

Don't say that! Everyone's opinions matter! You are respectful and not dismissing others' opinions and POV so you are entirely entitled to your opinion, that's what this forum is for! Also I agree with you that KC is not a bad actress so much that there beats that are missed when she is thrown such weird writing. The only time when her acting seems off to me is when she is acting opposite team arrow but that's because her concept of Laurel in those moments are "Laurel is the MVP here" as opposed to "I am appreciative of getting interact with a whole new slew of characters who can help me develop further and explore the team player side of me".

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Thea

I am impressed with how much they convinced me here. Her eyes are so steely and I can see her becoming the perfect child of Moira and Malcolm with her own set of shaky morals and rules that only make sense to her, like Moira doing all those shady things because of her family.

 

Ray

I think he is interesting now he is showing the geeky and not cocky side of him. I am intrigued by his discovery of those QC plans. Finally he interests me! Love interest is a non-qualifier for a character to me so bring on the mystery.

 

Roy

I am impressed with CH, I said during "Sara" I think his strength is emotion. He is so much more interesting when we see him connecting with the other members of the team on an emotional level. Good job!

 

Oliver

I am completely ok with him pouting wrt Felicity right now (she is doing alright for herself and that's all that matters to me). If he is feeling like being a bitch and can't go back to normal that's his problem. Let him deal with the awkwardness. I actually like it because he is showing affect and a pouting Oliver is kind of cute... but not for too long, please show it gets tiresome quick. I loved his interactions with Thea and he just was on point the whole episode. I loved his facial expression when Nyssa showed up. His face just "And... here comes the third!" You know, because bad things come in three.

 

Felicity

Her reactions were just perfect, she made me laugh. I like her bringing levity and that was the main hook for me with her character. She has little to do until 3x05 but the writers have given me faith they can handle her at least outside of a relationship with Oliver.

 

Diggle

Daddy Diggle for the win. I love this man. I want to be baby Sara. Adopt me. He is so badass protecting/fighting for his family and then so sweet, DR is killing it. "She better not do anything interesting while I'm gone." He is smitten and so am I. I am also glad we will be learning more about Lyla's position in A.R.G.U.S and how it impacts him. We already know Waller is not above threatening a family.

 

NYSSA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This episode definitely got me looking forward to next week. It's time it got its groove back and the pacing is slightly better even if the editing choices are a bit awkward.

Edited October 23, 2014 by fantique

[dtissagirl]

I'm sure you can recognize Buffy in my avatar, right? :)

 

I really have no problem with superhero ladies fighting, or getting the shit kicked out of them, and I know that learning to fight and being a superhero is a violent lifestyle. And I don't think I missed the point with either Laurel or Thea -- I think they're trying to make me feel sympathy for Laurel, and that I'm supposed to feel Thea's newfound empowerment. I mean, I'm all for ninja!Thea, I really am. I just don't find either of those two violent scenes we got to be edgy, or compelling in terms of my engagement with the story. I find them to be more of the same, even. Because this show has been writing women terribly from the start, and it seems that while last season they killed women [shado, Moira] to further Oliver's storyline, this season they're brutalizing women to further their own storyline. I guess at least it's not for manpain anymore?

 

I completely agree that Laurel was terribly stupid and short-sighted to go after that dude. And I see that Thea is in an awful position of having to trust a dude with severe anger management issues and rampant megalomania, because she feels like she can't trust anyone else. Both want to be fighters, which I have no problem with. But the exectution I got from this episode was men putting them both down violently, so they can rise above the fold. And that's the opposite of interesting storytelling to me.

Edited October 23, 2014 by dancingnancy

[JenMcSnark]

Personally, I think having Felicity just ride Laurel's jock like everyone else would be the worst form of female friendship. I have no interest in seeing someone who is generally a sweet, helpful person kowtow to someone who treats her like dirt most of the time and ignores her the rest.  As a female, I pick and choose my friends carefully and distrust and distance myself from those that are not, at the very least, courteous and genuine.  

 

I didn't think Felicity even had a mean/rude tone on the phone with Laurel.  To my ears, she sounded genuinely surprised that Laurel, of all people, would be calling her (for the 2nd ep in a row, mind you) to have Felicity do something for her.  She wondered why this is happening as would I. 

 

KC was a bit better this episode.  But I didn't like the writing in the AA meeting.  At. All.   How Mary Sue to be an alcoholic and experience your "beloved" sister's brutal murder and yet...she didn't even think of drinking!  Not even tempted!  Wow!  She's amazing.  And so going to an AA meeting to state that, basically made me feel like she was all 'Damn I'm strong!  You people weak..."

 

I won't get into the rest of her storyline in this ep except to agree that it was ridiculous and how dare she not tell Quentin about Sara when she had the perfect opportunity.  I think she's not because then Daddy's focus would be shifted away from Laurel and her issues and back onto Sara and the pain of losing her. 

 

LOVED Thea/Mia!  That girl rocks!!  Diggle was amazingly awesome as usual and had some of the best lines of the episode too.  Justice! Roy actually made me tear up a little when he was talking to Thea.  I like that kid.  

 

Loved Felicity this episode and glad to see some recognition of her talents. I don't even care if she and Oliver work out romantically at this point, but I do feel that Oliver is still being a dick to her and I don't like it.  Dick. 

 

I fear that this show is going to Vampire Diaries me.  Make me pissed and disgusted from week to week and then give me just enough awesome to suck me back in again. 

[Shanna]

I didn't see this great distance between Oliver and felicity. I enjoyed the guys in their own, but then I tend to enjoy when they play with group dynamics like that. And I enjoyed felicity and her corner office. Actually was a bit surprised that we took all those calls in front of Ray but I guess when someone spends a billion dollars to make you work for him you don't worry about getting fired! But it wasn't terribly stealthy doing team arrow business in front of him.

“Are we favor friends? Are we friends?”

I’m going to go with no. I was willing to give Laurel a pass in Sara but tonight it’s clear she just thinks Felicity is the team Google. There wasn’t even a pretense of pleasantry.

Yeah, I think that the main problem here. If you want a favor you should be polite. Laurel never is with felicity.

[catrox14]

But the exectution I got from this episode was men putting them both down violently, so they can rise above the fold.

 

 

I can envision that Nyssa gave the same kind of training to Sara in the LoA. So for me that's why I don't have a problem with it. I think it's because I don't view what Malcolm did to Thea as an act of abuse because she is a woman or because he is trying to punish her in some way. Now, I'm sure Malcolm has something up his sleeve that he can use Thea for his purposes later on but I do not believe in this situation Malcolm was using the violence against her per se. He actually believes that he is helping her. It's fucked up but because we know Malcolm's whacked out of his mind it doesn't come across to me as Men Hurting Women Because They Can..kind of thing.

 

I'm far more bothered by the idea that Laurel is using a legitimate victim of DV to further her personal need to satisfy whatever 'fire" or drive to do more violence. It wasn't in true service to solve that girl's problem. Because now that dickbag is going to go back to her and beat her again for disclosing her abuse because Laurel attacked him without provocations towards her specifically. 

 

DV is a fucking complicated issue that I don't think a show like this can really examine with any kind of reasonable quality and depth and I'm rather annoyed that they went there at all simply to make me feel sorry for Laurel. Nope.  

[Andromeda]

Ugh, I just can't with Laurel. She wants to help people and put away the bad guys? She's already an assistant district attorney, which puts her exactly where she needs to be to accomplish just that! Not everyone has to be physical, she can use her brain (*waves at Felicity*), like she did in the first season, when I actually liked her.

 

God, I really hate that character now. How stupid to think she can put on black clothes and go beat up some random guy? I was so glad to hear Oliver remind her that Sarah had YEARS of training. If Laurel doesn't take years, but comes back as the new Black Canary in, say, three months, I will be furious. Sarah earned that job and title, Laurel farting around in a gym on the weekend will not have earned it in the least!

 

ETA: I was confused about the need to build bows out of hotel room parts. You can take weapons on a plane (golf clubs, bows and arrows, at least; guns too as long as they're checked and inspected in person, I think) as long as you check them, at least in the U.S. Maybe this country specifically forbids them coming in -- if so, I hope they never plan on hosting the Olympics. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Andromeda

[Chicago Redshirt]

There are lots of problems with Laurel going after dude.

 

Even if she had managed to beat him with the bat severely without him turning things around and beating on her, what then?

 

Was she planning to literally kill him to douse the "fire" she feels inside?

 

Leave him for the cops? Based on what?

 

Or as others have already pointed out, leave him alive, free, but enraged? Where he would undoubtedly take it out on his girlfriend, possibly even killing her, for ratting him out as an abuser?

 

As a woman, a prosecutor, a daughter of a cop and a vigilante-wanna be, Laurel should have thought this through more. She could have, for instance, tried to talk to DV Victim within the context of the AA meeting and let her know that she's supporting her, encourage her to go to the authorities or even offer to take things in her own hands. 

[Happy Harpy]

This week, no Team Arrow? For me, it means "no show".

Per the promo, will next week's grace us with the Original Trio?

I'd say it's a big "No".

See you on 3x05, but only if...you know.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Happy Harpy

[some1105]

I hate being right. I'm going to be mixing up those names all season, I bet.

 

After grinding my teeth a little about Ray/Roy last week (and, okay, doing a mini Chuck marathon over the weekend), I had decided to just refer to Brandon Routh as Shaw 2.0.  Then the writers had to go ruin that plan by naming this week's baddie "Shaw" (when he obviously looks more like a Scanlon).  At this point, I think they're just fucking with us. 

 

I was also trying to figure out what it is that I have been liking more about Colton Haynes' work this season, because it's not like he's turned into a super-emoter.  I have a theory--I think he might have watched his own work (like, not just casually, but really examined it).  He's deploying his limited range more effectively, if that makes sense--like he's realized that he looks pretty much the same on screen across a spectrum of emotions and scenarios, and is letting that be what it is, while working more on his timing in the dialogue and body language.  It's working for me.  Good for him.

Edited October 23, 2014 by some1105

[TanyaKay]

After re-enacting the whole Working Girl scene, this recall to Felicity being a bombing master mind was fabulous. But then all Felicity scenes were amazing last night, whether she was talking about indexing the algorithm to get the print of the index finger, throwing shade at Laurel or asking for time off to see a friend who was struck by lightening. She is amazing.

 

Edited October 23, 2014 by TanyaKay

[SmallScreenDiva]

While I love the look on her face when Ray mentions the "wacko" who blew up the division, I did shake my head at her response. No one working for QC at the time should be making excuses for the "terrorists" (that's what Isabel called them) who destroyed an entire building, LOL! I would have loved just a shot of Ray kinda looking at Felicity all confused.

Edited October 23, 2014 by SmallScreenDiva

[catrox14]

I think Felicity's line was more of Felicity's babbling which is so in character.  And I suspect that babbling may come back to bite her.  Ray is clearly more savvy than he is letting on . And if he has suspicions about Felicity already and he should given that he kind of stalked her, then that might be something he files away in the back of his mind for future reference.

[AudienceofOne]

The thing about Laurel is that I find the hate for her character unreasonable and disproportionate. I truly dislike how any discussion of the show gets derailed by Laurel ranting. She's a poorly-crafted character, poorly acted. But this is a CW superhero show and that's pretty well par for the course.

 

Having said that, sometimes I wonder if the writers make decisions they know will infuriate viewers to keep the forum boards humming or if they really are just completely tone deaf.

 

There is a massive, massive difference between seeing a man beating up his girlfriend (or anyone, actually) and choosing to intervene and in deliberately attacking an unarmed man with a baseball bat in an alley.  Even as a woman who is very angry at the ongoing misogynism and violence against women in our society that people insist on ignoring or excusing, even I thought Laurel's actions were the worst sort of thuggery. If violence against an unarmed person is wrong then violence against an unarmed person is wrong.The fact that person did something bad yesterday doesn't matter. And since all she apparenlty had to do was let the police know he was in town to stop him beating his girlfriend, that means this wasn't a 'last straw' desperate act but a deliberate decision to take her own anger out on somebody through violence. How am I supposed to root for that? 

 

Also, I am very angry at the writers for not letting Quentin know his daughter is dead. It seems like they're having characters lie for no other purpose then to have them lie for drama. On that note, why didn't Oliver just tell Thea he's the Arrow?

[yellowfred]

KC was a bit better this episode.  But I didn't like the writing in the AA meeting.  At. All.   How Mary Sue to be an alcoholic and experience your "beloved" sister's brutal murder and yet...she didn't even think of drinking!  Not even tempted!  Wow!  She's amazing.  And so going to an AA meeting to state that, basically made me feel like she was all 'Damn I'm strong!  You people weak..."

 

Yeah, that scene was not particularly well written.  I kind of get what they were going for, though.  For a lot of alcoholics and other addicts, it's less about what the actual drug is and more about the fact that they use that drug in lieu of healthier coping mechanisms.  In that sense, unfortunately, Laurel's new "alcohol" is hitting people, which makes it as unhealthy on the "she's a recovering addict" level as it is on the "she's not a very good fighter" level.

 

I can envision that Nyssa gave the same kind of training to Sara in the LoA.

Oh man, that was one of the main things I kept thinking about during Malcolm and Thea's first few scenes.  Then I started thinking that Sara probably would have understood the significance of her whole "I don't even notice scalding hot liquids on my skin anymore" thing (on a side note, Malcolm probably should have included a note about how you have to pretend that it bothers you around civilians, so they don't get suspicious), having gone through the exact same thing.  Then I got sad again.

[slayer2]

This week, no Team Arrow? For me, it means "no show".

Per the promo, will next week's grace us with the Original Trio?

I'd say it's a big "No".

See you on 3x05, but only if...you know.

But Team Arrow were together and they were boring, the weakest part of the show IMO. Original recipe Team Arrow is Diggle and Ollie and they were wasted in the episode as they were all made to look emotionally r******* (except Roy). They should have canned the slamdown on ARGUS' whatever and stuck with the Thea/Laurel stuff. If they cut out the Shaw crap there could have been more time for Thea/Malcolm flashbacks and Thea/Ollie interactions and interactions with WildCat.

 

I also think Oliver is a fucking moron for not just telling Thea who he is. She left because of secrets and you still refuse to tell her the truth when you find her? You chased her halfway around the world and begged her to come home, dude and your big secret is that Dad killed himself? Okay that is a big secret and really tough to carry (my poor Ollie) but tell her everything!!!! Plus everybody and their cat knows his fucking secret anyways so at this point he's just being mean-spirited and there's no logical reason to keep it from her. All his enemies know who he is and who Thea is, he's actually putting her at a disadvantage by not saying anything. Diggle was a moron to advise him against the truth, this is what their hive mind thinking leads to?? To quote Kelly Kapowski "If you two are sharing a brain, why don't you get one that works?"

 

Also count me in as one who has no problem with Thea being that good in 5months. From experience, if you have  5months with nothing but time to get devoted to something and if you don't it could lead to yet more pain and suffering (everybody's seen Kill Bill) trust me, you're going to get good at it. I'm so happy to see they're evolving Thea that I don't give a damn how they do it but this way is looking pretty damn good.

 

 

 

 The thing about Laurel is that I find the hate for her character unreasonable and disproportionate. I truly dislike how any discussion of the show gets derailed by Laurel ranting. She's a poorly-crafted character, poorly acted. But this is a CW superhero show and that's pretty well par for the course.

 

 

I feel this way too. There's other aspects of the show I'd like to discuss. Like why they had to bring back Tommy to make him look ridiculous and then not even make reference to that apropos of nothing flashback in this episode. The ARGUS stuff felt as shoe-horned in as the weird Tommy stuff last week. Maybe it will all play out in the future episodes but it just seemed random.

Edited October 23, 2014 by slayer2

[Zalyn]

I can envision that Nyssa gave the same kind of training to Sara in the LoA. So for me that's why I don't have a problem with it. I think it's because I don't view what Malcolm did to Thea as an act of abuse because she is a woman or because he is trying to punish her in some way. Now, I'm sure Malcolm has something up his sleeve that he can use Thea for his purposes later on but I do not believe in this situation Malcolm was using the violence against her per se. He actually believes that he is helping her. It's fucked up but because we know Malcolm's whacked out of his mind it doesn't come across to me as Men Hurting Women Because They Can..kind of thing.

Good points here.  It would be interesting if some flashbacks of Nyssa beating up Sara as part of her training end up popping up on the show - 1) would they be able to film it in a way that isn't "oooh, catfight!" bait, and 2) would it be able to be shown as equally disturbing? 

 

Malcolm referencing his own training actually reinforces the idea of cycles of violence - he was beaten and hurt terribly (probably for a lot longer too) by people who didn't value or care for him.  And while he tried to avoid doing that to Thea, he very sadly decided that it was the only way.  It makes for interesting parallels with the DV story.  I'm not sure how much faith I have in the writers that this level of connection was intentional, but I'm just going to focus on that so I don't have to focus on less savory storylines.

 

 

Malcolm probably should have included a note about how you have to pretend that it bothers you around civilians, so they don't get suspicious

This is what happens when amateurs try to do grandmaster training; they forget the little helpful things.  :)

[catrox14]

I feel this way too. There's other aspects of the show I'd like to discuss. Like why they had to bring back Tommy to make him look ridiculous and then not even make reference to that apropos of nothing flashback in this episode. The ARGUS stuff felt as shoe-horned in as the weird Tommy stuff last week. Maybe it will all play out in the future episodes but it just seemed random.

Laurel is a main character. It will be hard to not discuss it when sadly it is becoming more prevalent. I think it's fine to bring up those other topics.

Edited October 23, 2014 by catrox14

[AES13]

I have to admit to something: I'm starting to enjoy all the WTFery they're doing with Laurel, just because I know the reaction it'll get here.  As I was watching last night, I kept laughing, thinking of all the glorious comments I would get to read.  I can't say I was ever bored so on one level, the show was a total success.  The only negative aspect I see is that at some point Laurel may become more of a main character and her delightful misadventures will no longer be amusing in their wrongheadedness but will doom the rest of the show.  As long as she remains primarily a peripheral character, I can handle it .

 

I missed Team Arrow last night mainly because usually Felicity is around to inject some humour into their situation.  I would have loved to see her witness Oliver's DIY arrows and remind him that they would be dinged for them on check out.

 

I know it's an odd criticism of a comic book hero show, but the lack of consistency regarding their financial situation bugs me.  Oliver is living out of the basement of Verdant and is so broke that Felicity has to buy him a bed and he can't afford a present for baby Sarah.  A week later, they're flying to South America, staying in a hotel and paying to bring Thea back with them.  How?  Where is Thea going to live?  Does she have money?  What frustrates me is that a lot of these questions could be answered with a throw away line; I don't need an in-depth discussion, just an acknowledgement that these things were considered.

[Angel12d]

Finally got my thoughts together on this episode. Much better than last week but there is something missing and I can't put my finger on it. I don't know if it's the direction or the editing or even the way things feel kind of fractured between the characters but there's definitely something off about it.

 

1. There wasn't much Felicity but that's fine with me because she's going to have her own episode in 2 weeks. But that scene where she's in a meeting with Ray and Diggle and Laurel were all calling her was absolute GOLD. The comic timing of it was perfect and much needed in the episode.

 

2. On that note I'm thrilled Felicity is finally in a job she deserves. Yay! I think her struggling to balance the two 'jobs' is going to be a problem though and I'm sure Ray is going to notice more and more.

 

3. Still don't see this amazing incredible chemistry between Ray/Felicity that the EP's kept going on about which makes me want a romance between the two even less.

 

4. Malcolm/Thea were just brilliant. Absolute highlight of the episode. I loved everything about them. Their dynamic is interesting and compelling and I can't wait to see what happens there. I would like to see more about why she thinks it's ok to trust the man who had a part in the Undertaking though, especially when she spent months not talking to her own mother for the same reason. There's a bit of a disconnect there.

 

5. Thea is already a more believable BC to me. Watching her fight was awesome. 

 

6. Laurel had me until she pulled that mask over her face and attacked that guy with a baseball bat. Seriously. Look, I'm not one who ever dismissed Laurel becoming BC. It was always going to happen. I know that. I just happen to think they are going the wrong way about it and this whole plot was incredibly rushed and fell flat. I would have liked to have seen some more struggle first. And the whole thing with Ted Grant was so heavy handed. They literally handed her a leaflet that said 'Learn to fight.' I think they should have had a few more episodes of Laurel slowly growing more disillusioned with the law and then have her do something about it. We basically had 3-4 episodes worth of plot/development in one episode and it showed.

 

7. On that note this just reinforced how unnecessary it was for Sara to die. Laurel could have just felt disillusioned with the law to start her on her path to BC instead of shoving another female character in the ground. Ridiculous.

 

8. Loved the Oliver/Thea scenes. Great chemistry. Oliver telling her the truth about how their dad really died was quite emotional. I'm really looking forward to them building a better relationship, especially with Malcolm involved. 

 

9. Diggle/Lyla/baby Digglette were adorable and much needed cuteness. I enjoyed the focus on Diggle for a change, although I thought it was a little odd how Shaw managed to knock him out, especially knowing Digg is trained special forces. 

 

10. Did anyone else not miss the Hong Kong flashbacks one bit? I'm almost dreading when they come back, especially with the less than subtle way Shaw said 'You don't know the things Waller made me do' or whatever. They do love their parallels. 

Edited October 23, 2014 by Angel12d

[slayer2]

I'm tired of the flashbacks period but least the Hong Kong flashbacks are bathed in light. Honestly the only flashbacks I want to see now are the ones that involve the Merlyn family. #MerlynFamilyValues.

Edited October 23, 2014 by slayer2

[Zalyn]

I know it's an odd criticism of a comic book hero show, but the lack of consistency regarding their financial situation bugs me.  Oliver is living out of the basement of Verdant and is so broke that Felicity has to buy him a bed and he can't afford a present for baby Sarah.  A week later, they're flying to South America, staying in a hotel and paying to bring Thea back with them.  How?  Where is Thea going to live?  Does she have money?  What frustrates me is that a lot of these questions could be answered with a throw away line; I don't need an in-depth discussion, just an acknowledgement that these things were considered.

Frequent Flyer Miles.

[thuganomics85]

OK, maybe I'm just easily amused, but I have to admit that I'm actually kind of bummed we didn't get to see wacky hi-jinks over Ollie, Diggle, and Roy's plane ride.  Especially since Roy never flew before.  I bet he was fun first-timer.  And, now I'm wondering about other things. Like were they able to get tickets for the same row?  If so, who sat where.  Well, obviously, Roy would be forced to sit in the middle (he is the newbie of Team Arrow, after-all), but I wonder who would get the window seat between Ollie and Diggle.

 

Of course, if they were separated, I'm sure there was fun to be have with the other passengers.  If Diggle's seatmate, dared to put his elbows in his personal space, that probably wouldn't end well.  And, if some poor fool asked what Ollie's story was, Ollie no doubt busted out the "My name is Oliver Queen.  For five years, I..." spiel, and droned on for the entire trip!

 

Yes, I clearly am way too concerned over the least important things about this show!

Edited October 23, 2014 by thuganomics85

[slayer2]

I agree. Airplane trips can be some of the funniest moments in tv {I'm looking at you Brenda and Jason}. We were robbed of Team Arrow high-flyiin' shenanigans.

[Actionmage]

And, now I'm wondering about other things. Like were they able to get tickets for the same row?  If so, who sat where.  Well, obviously, Roy would be forced to sit in the middle (he is the newbie of Team Arrow, after-all), but I wonder who would get the window seat between Ollie and Diggle.

 

If they were able to sit together, I think it would be:

Window: Ollie, better to brood

Center: Roy, unless he found out he got airsick

Aisle: John, more leg room

 

We could've had Ollie keep giving a Thousand Yard Stare to folks, if the three weren't together. Of course, he'd be on the exit row. John could sweetly help a frazed mom or dad with their baby and hilariously getting death glares from Ollie at Not Focusing. (Unless, he ruefully smiles at how good Diggle is at the Dad stuff.) Roy? Is discovering all the stuff you can do and get. A bemused flight attendant decides to 'adopt' Roy to help keep the enthusiasm in check.  He's disappointed a lot of the time as he's not flush this week. (Unless ARGUS is being beneficent- Daddy Diggle to the rescue!) 

Edited October 24, 2014 by Actionmage

[Shanna]

We have discussed plenty of things besides Laurel so that doesn't bother me. (Drapes dress level bow making, Felicitys dress collection, etc)

I found it somewhat disturbing to watch Malcolm hit Thea but that was clearly on purpose and she got it and fought back. It was interesting because Malcolm had tried to train her in a softer way, and decided he didn't know how. Now Malcolm is crazy but this ended up making some sense. It wasn't about beating up a girl.

The laurel beating she basically went out looking for it. So I don't knew what to do with that besides thinking it was stupid and could have gotten herself killed.

Oh! Also did anybody understand why she was wearing a badge in that one scene? I couldn't concentrate because I thought she was faking being a cop but then she wasn't so....

It's with everyone who is enjoying Roy more these days. I think he's relaxing into it maybe? His conversation with Thea was downright mature.

ETA if I think about Oliver's dumb nonsensical financial situation my head feels explody so I choose to ignore it. For now looks like felicity is wearing the money pants in their little team!

Edited October 24, 2014 by Shanna

[Tangerine]

We have discussed plenty of things besides Laurel so that doesn't bother me. (Drapes dress level bow making, Felicitys dress collection, etc)

I found it somewhat disturbing to watch Malcolm hit Thea but that was clearly on purpose and she got it and fought back. It was interesting because Malcolm had tried to train her in a softer way, and decided he didn't know how. Now Malcolm is crazy but this ended up making some sense. It wasn't about beating up a girl.

The laurel beating she basically went out looking for it. So I don't knew what to do with that besides thinking it was stupid and could have gotten herself killed.

Oh! Also did anybody understand why she was wearing a badge in that one scene? I couldn't concentrate because I thought she was faking being a cop but then she wasn't so....

It's with everyone who is enjoying Roy more these days. I think he's relaxing into it maybe? His conversation with Thea was downright mature.

 

ADAs do have badges actually, although the way she was wearing it was odd. That whole scene was odd because ADAs wouldn't be the ones questioning witnesses about alibis. Then again, this show isn't exactly accurate with its depiction of the American legal system.

 

I find it amazing how level-headed and mature Roy and Thea's relationship always has been despite the fact I'm pretty sure their pairing was to meet the proto-typical "Young Hot Couple" quota. I really did like that he was quietly accepting of her decision. No mansplaining, no whining.

[Shanna]

ADAs do have badges actually, although the way she was wearing it was odd. That whole scene was odd because ADAs wouldn't be the ones questioning witnesses about alibis.

I've just never seen a da or lawyer wear a badge around their neck like that. Do they have the same kind cops do or do they have a normal work kind of badge, like maybe the FBI?

Anyway, I thought the scene would have actually made more sense if she was pretending to be a cop because that's kind of how she was acting, investigating crime. So the whole thing threw me.

[catrox14]

I've always liked Roy and Thea. And I've always liked Roy on his own even from the beginning. I thought he had just a kindness about him that sometimes got overrun by his own stress and poverty etc. I'm not including the Mirakuru rage for obvious reasons.

 

Even when he stole Thea's purse I didn't think it was out of rage or anger or whatever, but his own desperation. And now that he's found something to live for, something positive I think his kindness is even more evident. 

Edited October 24, 2014 by catrox14

[slayer2]

Roy is really growing on me too and I think that conversation between Roy and Thea was the most adult of any relationship between man and woman that I've seen on this show.

[TVHappy9463]

I was really surprised at how much I liked this episode ( with the exception of Laurel), we got out of town and still moved the story forward for all the characters.  It was solid story telling and good character development.  I have always loved the Oliver - Thea relationship, and these actors play nicely off each other. I see an Arrow - Thea showdown coming, and her possibly injuring Roy without realizing it.  I wanted Oliver to rip that jacket out of Laurel's hand and lock it away forever.  Canon be damned!

I would be very happy to see an entire episode dedicated to Felicity's new job and boss, that story needs to fast-track, not dribble.  If you put John Barrowman and Jada Pinket Smith in the same scene, who would eat more scenery. I wonder.  

[statsgirl]

One other thing: I think Laurel and Thea's motivation is essentially the same. Both have been hurt so much and are looking for a way to not be victims any more. But Thea comes off as completely credible (to me, anyway) as a newly fledged bad-ass. I can buy that after five months of training with Malcolm, she can do high level fighting. I'm fairly sure Laurel will not come off as a credible fighter, ever.

What I find interesting about their journeys is that they both started off from a position of being hurt.  Thea decided that she never wanted to be hurt again and so she fought to become strong and self-sufficient.  Laurel decided to take on the qualities of Sara and go out and fight like Sara, without learning how to be strong first.

 

Do I need to add anything to the Awesomeness That Is John Diggle? The Glock line had me LMAO and I loved his rage at the dude on Corto Maltese.  You do NOT mess with those whom Diggle holds dear.

 

I think the scene with Oliver and Thea may be my favourite drama scene from the show, for a while at least. A great scene for both Holland and Amell.

 

Felicity owned all of her scenes as usual and thank GOD someone finally appreciates this woman's brains and gives her a great office and someone who may bring her food occasionally (because I'm sure she forgets to eat when she gets involved in something).

I'm really really glad that someone finally appreciates Felicity for who she is and what she does.  It's about time, and I hope this theme carries into later in the season.

 

What is it about fathers and guns? First Quentin replies to Tommy's "How are you sir?" with "Proficient with guns", then Joe threatens Eddie in this week's The Flash and now it's Diggle foreshadowing.

 

 

I think part of the point of frazzled Felicity is that she doesn't automatically know how to be a boss. She is used to being the support. She will be great as the boss, but delegating and allowing your EA to do their job and protect you...a new manager has to learn that skill.

 

It would definitely have been helpful if Laurel had said "Got a second?" or "Can you talk?" because Felicity is a people pleaser, even when people=Laurel, and even though she did not have a second and could not talk, she would've said "Sure."

 

However, it is entirely in character for Laurel to do that to her. Laurel has no idea whatsoever that Oliver isn't on the market anymore and that Felicity is the buyer who just hasn't moved in yet. Laurel seems to need a reason to be nice to someone, rather than needing a reason not to be.

But as an EA, Felicity should have been used to putting people in her real life on hold to do her job. Oh, wait, she has no one in her life.

Oliver really should have told her about Barry waking up . That's really pissy not to.

 

I thought Laurel's storyline here was something I can live with (so glad Oliver refused to train her) but it depends on how much screen time she gets.  I'll give the show till 3x09 to prove to me she's worth it.

I 

[JenMD]

Oliver really should have told her about Barry waking up . That's really pissy not to.

 

I can't blame Oliver for the writers dropping story beats like hot potatoes.  We don't know how or when Felicity found out Barry was awake. It's been, what, three weeks or so Flash time?  Barry (or Caitlin or Cisco) could have clued her in as soon as Barry woke up and it just wasn't pertinent to what was going on in the Arrow-verse for us to see it.  From the quick shot of Felicity reading the Streak/Blur/whatever headline on her computer (that I didn't even catch until I saw a screen shot of it), it seems like it was figuring out Barry was the Flash that prompted her visit to see Barry, not finding out he was awake (I suppose we'll might find out on The Flash, but if I was an Arrow only viewer, I'd be left confused).  I thought that scene of her asking for time off was so out of the blue (because, again, I didn't catch her reading the headline), that the only reason I wasn't completely shaking my head was because I knew she was going to do a crossover.  I just thought that whole segue came across as incredibly rushed and poorly set up all around.

Edited October 24, 2014 by JenMD

[Angel12d]

I thought that scene of her asking for time off was so out of the blue (because, again, I didn't catch her reading the headline), that the only reason I wasn't completely shaking my head was because I knew she was going to do a crossover.  I just thought that whole segue came across as incredibly rushed and poorly set up all around.

 

Yeah, I hadn't actually watched The Flash this week when I watched this episode so I didn't realize Felicity was reading Iris's blog at all. It totally escaped me and I think that's pretty bad tbh. You shouldn't have to watch The Flash to fill in blanks in the story on Arrow. I can already tell this crossover stuff is going to get annoying.

 

Also I think it's pretty bad for Felicity to be asking for time off when she just started her job so the whole thing was a bad set up from story and character perspectives.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Angel12d

[catrox14]

 

 

f you put John Barrowman and Jada Pinket Smith in the same scene, who would eat more scen

ery. I wonder.

 

I don't think Barrowman has been chewing scenes at all as Malcolm. I think he's done a great job getting right on the edge of scene chewing but never goes there.  I think he's just fantastic here. The stuff his character has to say and do is OTT but I don't think his performance was been anywhere near scene chewing.

[wonderwall]

Also I think it's pretty bad for Felicity to be asking for time off when she just started her job so the whole thing was a bad set up from story and character perspectives.

I thought so too, especially when Ray incredulously said "But you just started"... However, I think that after Felicity's success in attaining the data from that drive (when no one else could), I think she deserved that time off especially because of the extenuating circumstances (friend who was in a coma woke up). Ray was nice enough to let her go. I think as long as Felicity performs and excels at her job (as she did regardless of the few detours she took in order to help Digg and Laurel and Oliver), she can take as much time off as she needs. Plus, I'm sure she can work from Central :) 

[JenMcSnark]

Kind of curious how the boxing training will prepare Laurel to be a vigilante.  I'm sure it helps some...does Ted Grant have other skills I'm not aware of?  I'm not familiar with the comic.

 

I really loved the Oliver/Thea scenes.  Those two have always had good chemistry.    I agree that he should have told her everything though.  And I have a problem with him telling her that their father was a great man, or whatever he said.  Actually, he wasn't that great Oliver.  He went out semi-okay and had good intentions with that list, but the rest of the time he was pretty sketchy.  

 

I didn't feel like the ARGUS scenes were too forced.  I prefer episodes like this where everyone has something to do that basically fits with the a/b stories.  I kind of prefer them to the one-character eps. 

 

Loved Felicity's index finger joke; didn't love that Oliver basically rolled his eyes and walked away from her.  Last 2 seasons, that's the sort of line that would have at least got a reluctant smile which is one of the things that lightens the show.  It just seemed a bit OOC especially when he was laughing with Digg and Roy a few minutes later.  

 

I just don't like the angst.  You made a decision, Oliver, now accept it and treat Felicity the way you've always treated her.  If you're disgruntled or rude because of a decision you made, you're not very likeable. 

 

I've liked Roy from the get go.  I didn't think Colton was a very good actor, but the character was good for me.  I'm glad, like someone pointed out, that Colton seems to have recognized the things that he's good at and is using them to Roy's advantage.