S01.E03: Things You Can't Outrun

[slayer2]

How the hell has this show made me start to get tears in my eyes for two of the first three episodes that were produced. Barry talking with Joe and and his actual dad got me. I don't even have any drama with my dad in real life or anything. They just have me so invested in characters I just discovered. It's just amazing.

 

And I don't think this show needs to fix anything. This is one of the most solid, out of the gate, shows I've seen in some time.

Agreed! Finally a show to sit down and enjoy with a big ol' bag of popcorn or (as I discovered my new favourite thing) run on the treadmill to. #RunningwithBarry. I love this show.

[Jack Kerouac]

The particle accelerator could be modified to act as a makeshift prison! And that was before they even knew what they were dealing with.

 

 

 

Quite convenient. The big question is - who is paying to keep these super criminals in the particle accelerator? Who feeds them? Changes their potty? Lets them out for super criminal sunshine breaks?

 

How long do they stay in the super prison? Who decides their sentences?

[Kromm]

Considering that with every episode it becomes more clear the Wells knew exactly what was going to happen the night of the explosion, he probably intentionally designed the particle accelerator for easy conversion into a meta-human prison.

Bingo. He's from the future.  He went into this knowing exactly what would happen and was engineering it.  The potential paradoxes give me a migraine thinking about them, but assuming we roll with it as Good Time Timey Wimey TV Fun, then at the very least we have to acknowledge that any seeming "coincidence" is likely no such thing when Harrison Wells is involved.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Kromm

[AudienceofOne]

Considering that with every episode it becomes more clear the Wells knew exactly what was going to happen the night of the explosion, he probably intentionally designed the particle accelerator for easy conversion into a meta-human prison

 

 

Like it. That makes a lot of sense. Still doesn't explain

 

who is paying to keep these super criminals in the particle accelerator? Who feeds them? Changes their potty? Lets them out for super criminal sunshine breaks?

How long do they stay in the super prison? Who decides their sentences?

 

Because perpetually imprisoning people without charge is kind of... evil.

[twoods]

I love this show. I can't believe that after 3 episodes, I'm so invested in these characters that I keep crying with any Barry/dad and Barry/Joe scene. Just fantastic writing all around.

[Kromm]

Because perpetually imprisoning people without charge is kind of... evil.

What I'm going to suggest below is spoiler tagged because its based on characteristics of a character from the comics we know is in this adaption, but we don't quite know how this person shows up. I will say however that I believe it's only medium level spoilery, not heavy, mostly because its more broad strokes about who's who in the comic Flashverse and big things they're know for that define their characters.  Names, assumed roles because of names, etc. and how I think it fits with what we've seen so far on the show.  Then.. I speculate based on that.  So proceed with caution if that bothers anyone...

 

The yellow blur 

we know killed Barry's Mom is without any doubt The Reverse Flash, also commonly know as Professor Zoom in the comics. This is barely spoilery mostly in the sense that it's a core aspect of The Flash story and not some niggling little bit of trivia that may be used for a twist.  The Reverse Flash in the comics is named Eddie Thawne, although the character isn't overtly much like THIS version of Eddie.

Thawne is all over the board over the decades with how he's portrayed in the comics, but the whole "Professor Zoom" aspect buys more than a bit into the idea of a fakeout, with Harrison Wells--the "Professor" we're presented with--being the Reverse-Flash/Yellow Blur here.

 

The big thing with Reverse-Flash in many stories is that he worships The Flash and sees himself as his necessary opposite. He WOULD protect The Flash and in fact embed himself in his hero's creation, because he sees it as a bootstrap to his own creation as the opposite.  Ergo, killing the mom to give the motivation. Building the accelerator and then cleverly arranging the accident AND the redirection of the fallout upwards to land on the crime lab.  Of course its all a Paradox, since how did these things happen to INSPIRE him to do this before he did it to create himself as what he is?  That's part of it too.  

 

The Prison That's A Bad Idea comes in to this as well (it's not in the comics though).  Reverse-Flash wants to make sure Barry survives his early days to become what he's meant to be--this major superhero who a later day sad sack emulates (getting the same powers and a reverse costume and motive).  So he helps put all the nasties away the first time.  Then because he sees his later role to DESTROY what he's built up, you can bet your bottom dollar that the point of the Prison and all the badies being there so conveniently together is for Reverse-Flash to let them out all at once--so that they give the more mature Flash his "ultimate test".

 

It's on purpose, in other words.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Kromm

[AudienceofOne]

It's on purpose, in other words.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, Kromm, what you just wrote is way way more interesting and nuanced than anything I've seen in the show so far.

[Lyndy]

Grant Gustin and Jesse Martin are carrying this thing right now. I don't dislike the rest of the cast but those two are the most interesting. 

[bettername2come]

The Barry/Joe and Barry/Dad scenes are reminding me just how well Berlanti can do heartwarming family drama. It made me break out the Everwood dvds. 

 

Damn you, Berlanti!

 

I keep waiting for someone to tell Barry that he's beyond friendzoned. He's siblingzoned.

Edited October 22, 2014 by bettername2come

[Actionmage]

Kromm, a virtual kiss on the cheek; your spec is wonderful! Why aren't you on their staff?

[Kromm]

Kromm, a virtual kiss on the cheek; your spec is wonderful! Why aren't you on their staff?

I may have expressed it in a nice way, but I actually DO think this is what they seem to be doing. Geoff Johns is directly involved with this show. Geoff Johns is the DC writer who most recently honed most of the aspects of the character I mentioned. I'm basically attempting to channel what I know of Geoff Johns and his involvement with The Flash mythos with this theory. I could be wrong, but it's what I consider an educated guess.

[caracas1914]

I think Caitlin is fine as a closed off, walls up, character.  There is SL reasons for it even more with her fiancee's death.   Iris is actually more problematic for me because she screams nominal female ingenue with no driving reason to be in the narrative, other than someone for Barry to pine over.  It would have made more sense to have Iris linked with Barry as co workers in the Police Department, other than psuedo siblings who hang out before she goes to bang her cop boyfriend in the evening.

Edited October 22, 2014 by caracas1914

[Kromm]

I think Caitlin is fine as a closed off, walls up, character.  There is SL reasons for it even more with her fiancee's death.   Iris is actually more problematic for me because she screams nominal female ingenue with no driving reason to be in the narrative, other than someone for Barry to pine over.  It would have made more sense to have Iris linked with Barry as co workers in the Police Department, other than psuedo siblings who hang out before she goes to bang her cop boyfriend in the evening.

The pseudo siblings has been my biggest reservation with the whole show since Day 1. That said, I see how it wound up being that way. They wanted Joe as a father figure. They wanted Jessie L. Martin as Joe--a decision that's been more than justified by the fact that Martin is doing the best work of his career here. Somewhere along the way they discovered Candice Patton, that she clearly fit as Joe's daughter, and that she could actually act unlike most actresses who fill roles of this general type on shows like this.

The only way to change this would be if they unseated Barry as so close to Joe, and they'd have lost a big aspect of the show that seems to be working really well if they had. If Joe had just been the cop who arrested his father, lets say, that Barry ironically wound up working with years later when he wound up at the crime lab, I don't know if this show would have half the heart it does.

Ergo, Barry and Iris wound up as pseudo siblings.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Kromm

[shrewd.buddha]

The big question is - who is paying to keep these super criminals in the particle accelerator? Who feeds them? Changes their potty? Lets them out for super criminal sunshine breaks?

Maintaining a prison is not a trivial side job. I was wondering how they would even manage to get food to Poison Gas Man. 

[Grammaeryn]

How the hell has this show made me start to get tears in my eyes for two of the first three episodes that were produced. Barry talking with Joe and and his actual dad got me. I don't even have any drama with my dad in real life or anything. They just have me so invested in characters I just discovered. It's just amazing.

 

And I don't think this show needs to fix anything. This is one of the most solid, out of the gate, shows I've seen in some time.

Thank you for saying this! I have been amazed that I am so invested in a character who I just "met". But sometimes there are actors who somehow vibrate on your own frequency so it's really easy for you to respond to them. Mark Ruffalo is one for me and now Grant Gustin apparently.

[david gideon]

For some reason every time I see the guy playing Dr Wells he immediately reminds me of John Shea playing Lex Luthor.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Did Harrison Wells have future knowledge about Barry BEFORE the explosion at Star Labs ?  How ?  Is he a time traveler from the future ?

Presumably yes to both. Obviously his Secret Room employs futuristic tech. We saw in the pilot that he had access to a future newspaper that talked about the Flash disappearing and a WayneTech/Queen Inc. merger being completed. So either what is being experienced by him now is the past to him (or a version of it that he is manipulating).

 

This may have been covered already, and if so, sorry, but I missed the second episode because of some bad cable thing. My question: Has it been explained how Barry avoids hitting people, cars, animals, etc. while he's traveling so fast. It seems that as fast as he goes, he couldn't see anything in front of him.

Basically I would fanwank that with his speed he also gets super-reflexes. These of course disappear at plot-convenient times, or else it would not be possible for anybody to surprise him. But at the end of the day, as someone said jn response to another question about his abilities, you just have to ignore that he violates all sorts of science and just accept that he can do what he does.

 

To respond to a couple other things in the thread:

 

Ra's Al Ghul and Vandal Savage are both classic villains with long lives. However, neither has the ability to look into the future as we saw Wells does. 

 

There are two potential classic Flash villains that might make sense:

Professor Zoom/Reverse Flash, as people have said, is almost too neat a fit. The Flash had another villain called Abra Kadabra, who came from the 64th Century and basically used advance technology as if it was magic, would be another possibility.

 

[Maverick]

BTW, it's nice that the science billionaire came up with a metahuman prison for the metahuman problem he created, but this is totally extrajudicial and super illegal.

 Once you've broken the laws of physics, why quibble over a few civil liberties violations.  

[wmdekooning]

Is it me or did "Poison Gas Guy"/"The Mist" look like this guy  to anyone else for extra crazy?  Whatever the case, please no particle acceleration experiments when they execute him.

Edited October 23, 2014 by wmdekooning

[jbrecken]

The metaprison made from a particle accelerator reminded me of the Ghostbusters' containment device - I just hope Central City's EPA inspector has intact genitals.

[foreverevolving]

I hope this is the right place:

So i was thinking over the Flash trailer for the next episode. and Barry saying that "Felicity works with the arrow"
has it been shown in Arrow that Caitlin and Cisco know she works with the arrow? they only ever saw her with Oliver and Diggle, not Arrow. So maybe it's not so out there that it says that line.

[kikaha]

Two speculations:  Ronnie didn't die, but instead is a meta-human; and Wells killed Barry's mother. 

[Jeezaloo]

Quite convenient. The big question is - who is paying to keep these super criminals in the particle accelerator? Who feeds them? Changes their potty? Lets them out for super criminal sunshine breaks?

 

How long do they stay in the super prison? Who decides their sentences?

Yeah, do they even get a fair and open trial? Will they be rehabilitated, will anyone even try to get them to use their powers for good or at least responsibly? Do they get visitation rights, are they even allowed to ever see their loved ones again? What governing agency authorized a dangerous site that once violently exploded to be a new prison? Does the public know this is happening right under their feet? What exactly is done to them to keep them "imprisoned"?

[Kromm]

Yeah, do they even get a fair and open trial? Will they be rehabilitated, will anyone even try to get them to use their powers for good or at least responsibly? Do they get visitation rights, are they even allowed to ever see their loved ones again? What governing agency authorized a dangerous site that once violently exploded to be a new prison? Does the public know this is happening right under their feet? What exactly is done to them to keep them "imprisoned"?

We can ask all these questions, but if Wells is the source of the idea, well... he's already a shady character (and the public in that city especially thinks that).

 

Barry and Joe going along with it is the issue, of course, but neither one of them seems to have any real resources to speak of their own, and a seeming fear of going "official" with Barry's identity. So I guess they feel trapped into taking advice from the rich guy.

[cambridgeguy]

 

Yeah, do they even get a fair and open trial? Will they be rehabilitated, will anyone even try to get them to use their powers for good or at least responsibly? Do they get visitation rights, are they even allowed to ever see their loved ones again? What governing agency authorized a dangerous site that once violently exploded to be a new prison? Does the public know this is happening right under their feet? What exactly is done to them to keep them "imprisoned"?

Well, Mr. Mist was already tried, convicted, and sentenced to death by the legal system and he certainly didn't do anything to show that he was wrongfully convicted.  To be honest they could have easily justified killing the guy rather than going to the trouble of locking him up.

 

As for future villains - somewhere Amanda Waller is working out a way to snag these folks.

[seamusk]

OK, I stopped reading this thread because there are way too many people who are way too loose with comic book spoilers.  I like being surprised by the plot lines and I hope folks can understand that even talking about what somewhat isn't implies what they are.  

 

With that said, I enjoyed this episode in bunches.  Looking forward to more.  It's not perfect, but then what is.

[Kromm]

OK, I stopped reading this thread because there are way too many people who are way too loose with comic book spoilers. 

Unspoiler tagged ones?

[Jeezaloo]

As for future villains - somewhere Amanda Waller is working out a way to snag these folks.

If I get nail-tough short-n-stocky no-flinch-guarantee punch-ya-in-the-jaw-and-ya-know-ya-deserved-it Waller, over slut-shape-07-mahogany-color Waller, I might hate DC only half as much as I do.

 

[seamusk]

Unspoiler tagged ones?

No, people just keep talking about characters and their fates and who they might be from the comics.

[Sandman]

I agree about the scenes for Joe and Barry being sold almost entirely on the strength of the performers. Jesse L. Martin and Grant Gustin have a believable connection. The scenes for Barry and his dad aren't quite as strong, for me, but they're awfully close. (I say this as someone who never saw Everwood as anything but cheese. (Sorry.))

 

2. When Star Labs was built, did they just say, you know what would make our particle accelerator look really cool? If it looked just like Cerebro over on X-men!

 

So I'm not the only one who said "Welcome, Professor," when the particle accelerator chamber opened to admit Cisco and "Wheels" Wells?

[calliope1975]

So I'm not the only one who said "Welcome, Professor," when the particle accelerator chamber opened to admit Cisco and "Wheels" Wells?

 

Nope. That's exactly what I thought as well.

[marketdoctor]

I'd like to see the show be unafraid to depart from the comics.  Being bound to closely was a (sorry) lance through the potential plot of Arrow.  It's possible, for instance, that Harrison Wells is an original character, which lets them make him morally complex.  That said, Kromm's theory makes a lot of sense, and it wouldn't surprise me if they went there...but I hope they do surprise me and change it up some. 

 

For example, Caitlyn could

turn out NOT to be metahuman, never become Killer Frost, etc., and exist as a romantic obstacle to Barry and Iris.

.  It's not "fan service", it's "story service", since that's where the story might take them. 

 

I've also been impressed with the acting.  For me it's ranged from "not bad" to "elevates the material."  Young actors are often a less known quantity, so the casting has really impressed me.

Edited October 24, 2014 by marketdoctor

[Kromm]

For example, Caitlyn could

turn out NOT to be metahuman, never become Killer Frost, etc., and exist as a romantic obstacle to Barry and Iris.

.  It's not "fan service", it's "story service", since that's where the story might take them. 

I think its far more likely they'll

deviate with expectations for Caitlyn than what we've come to guess about Wells--precisely because what they're doing with Wells ALREADY isn't something from the comics, but rather seemingly a reinvention, whereas doing the expected thing with Caitlyn wouldn't be a major reinvention (only a minor one, since her personal history is a bit different, but certainly can lead to the same place). So my thought is no Killer Frost, or if there is one then Caitlyn gets used as a fake-out for it (maybe if a sister of Caitlyn's suddenly pops up we need to be suspicious).

 

Besides... The Flash

already has his own cold-themed villain... and there's no doubt in my mind that one will show up. A second cold themed villain borrowed from another comic book is hardly necessary. Or here's an idea.  Caitlyn is the gateway they use to Captain Cold.  I very much doubt on a modern semi-serious show they'll go with the name "Leonard Snart" anyway, so maybe it's some relative of Caitlyn's or some romantic interest gone wrong or something like that. It could even be Ronnie, although that frankly would be pretty lame. Anyway, back to the relative idea.  If Caitlyn winds up having a sister, I'd suspect a Killer Frost redirect, but if she has a brother (especially one named Leonard), then he'd clearly make a logical Captain Cold--who prominently HAS a sister in the comics, even though she and her backstory are nothing like Caitlyn Snow.

 

EDIT - Rats. I just read casting news that 

Wentworth Miller has been cast as Captain Cold.  That rules out about half my theories above.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Kromm

[wayne67]

Was I the only one annoyed that Barry didn't seem concerned at all about the dead/dying guard in the background?

 

It also seemed weird as the hitman had no real reason to kill the guard.

 

I could do with less voice overs and inspirational speeches during episodes.

[The Crazed Spruce]

There are two potential classic Flash villains that might make sense:

Professor Zoom/Reverse Flash, as people have said, is almost too neat a fit. The Flash had another villain called Abra Kadabra, who came from the 64th Century and basically used advance technology as if it was magic, would be another possibility.

There's also

T.O. Morrow, whose original schtick is that he had a device that let him look into the future (which is where he got all of his advanced robot designs). Kinda sounds like that holographic newspaper from the pilot, don't'cha think?

[88Keys]

OK, I stopped reading this thread because there are way too many people who are way too loose with comic book spoilers.  I like being surprised by the plot lines and I hope folks can understand that even talking about what somewhat isn't implies what they are.  

 

I know what you mean.  I told my husband to stop telling me what happened in the comic books, so that I could be surprised.

 

Then again, there is no guarantee that this show will stick to the comic history.  I mean, they've already messed around with things by having Barry and Iris be raised together.