S25.E04: Thinly Sliced Anchovies

[Netfoot]

I would almost certainly just go ask someone rather than take the risk of saying something idiotic on TV.

 

Funny how they don't grab a passer-by and ask "What are the capitals..." Instead they ask "Do you have a SmartPhone?"  Like, "Well, I don't know the answer, so everyone else must be a dumb-ass too!"

Edited October 20, 2014 by Netfoot

[Sharpie66]

Personally, if I were running the Race, I would make it a point to pick up a World Almanac in the US airport before we leave for the first flight out (books are cheaper in the US than elsewhere, generally), and tote it around for the rest of the race.

[merylinkid]

 

That said, his arrogance is 100%, "We're awesome and dominant!",

While not fond of that attitude, I will take it over "We will only help the right kind of people."   And yes, the Dentists are not dissing other teams, trying to sabotage them, or lying to them as we have seen other teams do in the past.   If telling yourself you are awesome while not treating others like dirt is what gets you through, then I guess I can live with it.   But man, how much did he spend on that guidebook?   He couldn't find a cheaper one?

[green]

And that's the way I like it.

 

Either an elimination is scheduled -- in which case you get eliminated -- or NO elimination is scheduled, in which case you DON'T. 

 

Mugging, Marked for elimination, Speed Bumps, etc, are all attempts to jazz up a formula that was just right from the beginning.  I call for the elimination of the U-Turn, and the return of the Yield, and a Fast Forward on each leg.

 

I agree with you totally except for the Yield which I also don't like.  Back to the TAR 1 through 4 rules.  Though the awesomely, incredibly colorful cast of TAR5 more than made up for the horrible Yield addition at the time.

 

I wish this Save would go away as well as the Xpress Pass.  A FF on every leg but the last was totally awesome and worked far far better.  Far more strategy involved and risks with so many teams trying to decide when to go after theirs and what happens if others decide they need it that leg.  Also saves a team that may have some short term problem (Danny's gout on TAR2 for example) and give the bottom-feeders their moment of glory while putting some top team having a bad leg at risk which helped even the field a bit and gave hope of a dark horse maybe ending up winning for a change.  And, starting about mid-season on TAR2 when they first started giving out rewards every leg for finishing first in a leg, a weak, doomed team still got their feel good moment and the audience got to share in it.

 

Anyhow, loved the FF.  It worked better than any of the silly artificial "drama producing" stuff they came up with afterwards.  And it would be cheap to do.  Nothing elaborate.  Wolfing down meat pies with the Boston Boys at a Sydney diner with just their camera crew in tow worked just fine.  So I never bought production's "it cost too much to have them on every leg of the race" excuse.  They just started to make them too big budget (TAR4's Vienna waltzers one was first I remember hiring a lot of locals and a big palace for just a FF) but there was no need to do that.  And if you took a FF on a non-elim leg (4 of them back then since their were 13 legs and 11 teams - 12 teams on TAR3) then that is what you got.  You didn't get to hold on to it for the next leg like the Dentist with this Save junk.

 

Anyway I guess I don't care if the Dentists get the Save back.  Rather it be used up too and I'm sure TPTB have taken note that it was a poor decision but they had to write the rules before the Race began and they were stuck with writing the wrong ones for this Race.  If they use this horrible Save in future (if there are future seasons) then I'm pretty sure they will change that rule.  Not because of the Dentists but because it made no logical sense.

 

Spit-balling here:  I'm thinking they know there has to be 3 NEL in these truncated 12 episode seasons they have had lately (yeah, I'm old school to the bone, give me 13 legs again, damn it) and so wrote into the legal rules that one of them would officially be "triggered" in the leg when the Save is used to prevent the possibility of having to go back and eliminate a second-to-last team that already checked in.  Thus they had to give it back if it was already a NEL otherwise the NEL that is planned to become a NEL by this trigger device would never happen.  (I also assume the same rules would declare before the Race started as well that the last leg you could use the Save on would become a default NEL if the Save was never used if the team kept finishing strong the whole time and never turned it in).

 

This means of course that my whole theory doesn't explain NOT taking the "Save" away from the Dentists cause the rules could also have included a clause that said "if the Save is used in a NEL then the third and missing roving NEL defaults to the last leg said Save could have been used on" or something like that but maybe the legalize thinking didn't get that far.

 

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying above was their idea may have been to try and make a "roving" NEL within legal game show rules just to try something different and the "Save" was the mechanism they came up with to bring that about.  Chicken/egg, who knows.  (Well they do I guess, hah).  Didn't work like they would like I guess.  If there are future seasons and they keep this stupid "Save" they may have to re-think their mechanism better if that was their intent ... which it might not have been since this is my non-conspiracy conspiracy theory.  Again just a guess.  Could be totally wrong but, hey, I'm bored and this post got way away from me, heh.

Edited October 20, 2014 by green

[green]

When Phil first announced the Save, he said that it would "turn a leg into a non-elimination leg." So nobody else would have to leave instead.

Whoops missed this post.  Makes my non-conspiracy conspiracy theory above not so tin foil maybe.

 

Sorry don't know how to include it in the post above.  I don't know how to do all the multiple quotes stuff or to include a quote multiple ebbed quote either.  Is there an instruction thread here on this site about how to do them?

 

Also posted the post above before reading hincandenza's too and them missing Rinaldo's above (no I still don't get how to include a person's name in the quote either. 

 

And like them I needed to quote immediately cause it is so hard for me to "quote" here.  The quote button is totally non-intuitive to my wee brain.  Again I need a tutorial if the only option allowed is Quote and only one quote is allowed.  I don't get the arcane stuff others have tried to explain as to how they get their awesome, credited, multi-quote stuff happening.  I do appreciate them trying to school us, I really do.  But I need clear commands tied to the Quote button for me to get it I guess.  Other forums make it easy.  Guess the company that put the software together on this one missed on the "ease" bit here.

Edited October 20, 2014 by green

[cooksdelight]

Quote info:

1) You can click on the quote marks in your row of tools (like thumbs-up, yield sign to file a report, pencil to edit, etc) and paste in what you want to quote.

2) if you want to do a direct quote, click on the arrow to the upper right within where someone has posted something. Go down to the text box and it will appear there in HTML format, ready to go.

3) Use HTML to do your quotes. Copy the text you want to quote. Type a [ then the word QUOTE with another bracket ] insert the text you've copied, then type another bracket [ with a slash / then the word QUOTE with an ending bracket ]

[Bella]

Personally, if I were running the Race, I would make it a point to pick up a World Almanac in the US airport before we leave for the first flight out (books are cheaper in the US than elsewhere, generally), and tote it around for the rest of the race.

 

You could rip out pages you don't need to use as toilet paper! Seriously, as the race progressed, you could get rid of parts of it and save a bit of weight for the backpack. But keep it for the trip back to the U.S. and study the visited countries on the plane as prep for that last task that usually involves facts about where you've been.

 

I finally watched last night (I live 2 days behind on my DVR and will never catch up). Jim seemed less like a guy experiencing 'roid rage, so he was okay. Still loving the food scientists most, and sometimes wishing that Adam and Bethany would just get a room already.

[auntlada]

Doctorate in Political Science and I would not have been able to name all of the capitols from memory. I know how to research things so wny bother memorizing them? And the last time I had geography was in 8th Grade, I believe I received a C, mainly because my spelling sucks and I thought memorizing stuff is just plain stupid even then. Sorry, I see that type of stuff as trivia and not as overly important.

 

It's that kind of trivia that is taking up space in my brain that could be used by possibly more useful stuff. That, and the lyrics to so many 80s pop songs.

 

I would have sucked at the sandwich thing. Once upon a time, I could have done it easily, but having a child sucked out all my short-term memorization skills.

[LilyoftheValley]

Jim and Misti are not my favorite team, but I just wanted to slip in a correction before we go too far assuming how old they are.  They are actually 37 and 36, respectively.  I found this information on The Amazing Race CBS website.

Bullshit.  If Misti is 36, then I am 19. 

Even if you don't think knowing world geography is generally a good thing I'd think you'd brush up on it before going on a race around the world.  Seems like a good idea, right?  And they flew into Copenhagen.  Every airplane I've ever been on has an inflight magazine in the seat pocket in front of you. In the back of that magazine is a map of the airline's routes.  It lists the names of cities they fly to.  I'd be shocked if Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm weren't listed in those maps.  You've got some time to kill on the flight, wouldn't you at least glance through the magazine at some point?  if for no other reason than to see where you can get a direct flight?

Yeah you would think that is what a person in the race around the world would do while in flight, but hey, nothing surprises me anymore at this point.

 

BTW, since it came up in a few posts, I just have to respond to something: knowing world geography is not trivia.  It is an academic subject and is something that any educated person should have a reasonable grasp on.  No wonder so many Americans are such total idiots - we call something as important as knowing about the world "trivia".  Knowing who popped Britney Spears' cherry is trivia.  Knowing the capitals of some of the largest economies in the world is not trivia!  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I was a rabid anti-dentite

Next you'll be saying they should have their own schools!

When Brooke complained about how much her back hurt as they were biking with the cake, I thought dude, don't you get thrown onto the ground for a living? I get what she was saying but it just struck me as humorous that someone who clearly spends a lot of time working out and hitting the mat (no matter how choreographed) said that this task was so painful.

[Tony]

You know, the Dentists started out annoying and all, but I like them.  Jim didn't get upset with Misti at all, he supported her, and he complimented other teams as well.

 

I was going to say the Dentists seemed to handle adversity well.   They weren't fighting with each other or adding pressure.   They were just working through the problem.

 

The only reason that spray-tanned baboon was tolerable at last place was because they had the Save so he knew they weren't going anywhere. The real test is when they don't have it. Phil should have asked them if they wanted to use the save, demand a "final answer", take it, and tell them it was a NEL. I'd relish the stupid look on Jim's face.

 

I thought the wrestlers were totally amusing this ep (in a good way). I LOL'ed when they were going to start the waitressing task and he said they get hit in the head for a living and she was tapping her skull and saying there's nothing there. Then later on he commented on how he called himself a waitress. These two are really growing on me.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Tony

[kassygreene]

I think the book they bought was something like "Poor Man's Guide to Denmark" - it was mentioned in one of the bonus clips, but I'm not going to re-watch.  Apparently it cost around US$50, which sounds a bit right for pricing of a) an American-published book (which the title suggested to me) and b) a book sold at an airport bookstore.

 

Back in the days when I used my passport, any trip over a week and I would have to buy an English-language book, usually at an airport, usually American-published (and thus imported), and never less than twice the price on the ISBN.  Once it was thrice!

 

I don't think it was a good investment.  Asking for help in a country like Denmark (where English is taught in elementary school) is a much better idea.  Kudos to them for finding someone in Sweden to buy it!

 

I recommend the bonus clips on the cbs site, if you can access them.  This season pretty much everyone has had good bonus edits, except the mother/daughter flight attendants.  I don't think a good edit was possible for them this week.

[North of Eden]

Late to the game with this but yes I absolutly agree with anyone who believes Phil should not have given back The Save. It should have been burned right then and there. Also not fair was the Sandra Bullock lookalike cyclist and her pal not having to redo their task as they delivered the cake in more than one piece...that didn't seem right at all.

 

To borrow from SURVIVOR I am bumpuzzled that of dozens and dozens of Survivors the TAR producers chose Keith and Whitney...two of the most boring and unmemorable players to join the race this season. Hell even the Culpeppers would be more entertaining.

 

The dentist is a highly educated man but when I look at him all I can see is "Lunkhead".

 

This was a good espisode and I am VERY glad they got Europe out of the way FIRST. IT's always more entertaining when Killer Fatique sets in the the racers still have to face Africa and Southeast Asia and the cultural and climate challenges that comes with them!

Ratings were up...and since they was a good episode I hope people will continue to tune in and maybe tell their friends.

 

Lastly thumbs down to Eliza Orleans who on Rob  Has A Podcast described THE AMAZING RACE & BIG BROTHER as inferior shows to SURVIVOR. I think an Emmy count might be in order.

[LilyoftheValley]

The only reason that spray-tanned baboon was tolerable at last place was because they had the Save so he knew they weren't going anywhere. The real test is when they don't have it. Phil should have asked them if they wanted to use the save, demand a "final answer", take it, and tell them it was a NEL. I'd relish the stupid look on Jim's face.

 

Exactly.  The guy was calm because he had absolutely nothing to worry about.  So far they have been in the top three and they knew that they were in the lead.  Then, when they are dead last, they are not totally freaking out because they have the save.  

 

I know people think Jim seems like a nice guy, but I am still holding my breath.  There will come a time when the save is gone and when they are in dire straights.  I will judge his character then.  

[riley702]

Jim and Misti are not my favorite team, but I just wanted to slip in a correction before we go too far assuming how old they are.  They are actually 37 and 36, respectively.  I found this information on The Amazing Race CBS website.

 

 

Bullshit.  If Misti is 36, then I am 19.  

The sun damage from excessive tanning can really age you. By 36 and 37, they're looking like tanned leather.

[Netfoot]

Thus they had to give it back if it was already a NEL otherwise the NEL that is planned to become a NEL by this trigger device would never happen..

 

That doesn't add up, because the PearlyWhites may never again check in last, and therefore never use the Save.  So, there is no practical difference between i) not giving it back to them, and ii) returning it, but they never need to use it.  

[wineaux]

Regarding Shelley & Nici:

 

The problem with this is they switched positions because Nici had done a poor job navigating, Shelley got upset at her because she told her to turn too late.  Nici admitted it was her mistake but didn't apologize sufficiently for Shelley so they switched roles.  Then, Shelley decides that the job of the navigator is to tell people to turn, stop, etc. after the fact.  But not apologize or admit you were wrong.

 

Sorry, but both acted immaturely but Shelley was worse to me.  She has decided that instead of being on the Amazing Race she wants to be on the Amazing Teach My Daugher a Lesson show.  And I'm not very interested in that show.

 

All.  Of.  This.

 

What is truly unbelievable to me is how smug she (Shelley) is when she feels she is right.  What was it she said when they were supposedly discussing which task to do (a poster above mentioned this …I had forgotten it) and she said, "I've decided."  Really?  No further discussion?  And, why she thinks that The Amazing Race is the place to try to 'teach' Nici a lesson is beyond me.  No doubt, they both have their issues.  (Nici: Not being sympathetic to your Mom when she has a cramp in her leg is not good.)  Neither is completely correct in how they are dealing with mistakes and each other.  And, something tells me that Nici wanted to go on the Race more than Mom, which explains Mom's nonchalant attitude when she realized they passed by Phil at the pit stop.  If she doesn't  want to work toward the common goal ($1M), why is she there? 

 

I'm baffled. That was a head-shaker.  For all they knew, they could have been last and, thus, possibly eliminated.  IMO, Shelley would not care and would blame it all on Nici.  Shelley: If she had only listened to me, everything would have gone so much better.

 

Don't get me wrong. Nici doesn't get a full pass.  We don't know why she talks to Shelley the way she does, nor why Shelley treats Nici like she's 5.  And after being her Mom's daughter for 25 years, she should not be surprised at her actions.  But, it probably frustrates her to no end every time Mom pulls one of her moves.  Having a supportive and motivated partner is key, but this team doesn't have those traits.

 

I'm with you Jersey Guy…I'm not interested in their show either.  :-(

[ProfCrash]

Shelly and Nici are not going to last much longer. They have been picking at each other since the start and that is only going to get worse as the race continues.

 

I have to say that I have been impressed with the way most of the teams have treated each other. Even in the bonus clips the teams are addressing their issues pretty respectfully. Keith and Whitney have some interesting exchanges but they are not all that bad. Shelly and Nici are by far the worst. For the most part, teams have been encouraging and helpful. The interactions between teams on the beach were great. All the team were hanging out together and having a good time. I like seeing teams that are racing, cooperative, and polite and that seems to be what we have here. A very pleasant change of pace from some past seasons.

 

BTW, since it came up in a few posts, I just have to respond to something: knowing world geography is not trivia.  It is an academic subject and is something that any educated person should have a reasonable grasp on.  No wonder so many Americans are such total idiots - we call something as important as knowing about the world "trivia".  Knowing who popped Britney Spears' cherry is trivia.  Knowing the capitals of some of the largest economies in the world is not trivia!

 

People who have degrees in geography do not spending most of their time memorizing capitols, mountain rangers, lakes and roads. From a website on what a geography major does "A program that focuses on the systematic study of the spatial distribution and interrelationships of people, natural resources, plant and animal life. Includes instruction in historical and political geography, cultural geography, economic and physical geography, regional science, cartographic methods, remote sensing, spatial analysis, and applications to areas such as land-use planning, development studies, and analyses of specific countries, regions, and resources."

 

I would guess that memorizing capitols and the like is at the bottom of their list, probably because they know where to go to look up said things. They end up knowing a fair amount of that because of how the information is used, just like I can list off different type of electoral systems because I know how they are used and why they are important. Geography is fascinating when it is used to help better understand the history, culture, and economy of a region. The way most Americans are taught geography it is trivia. Geography they way it is taught in Junior and High school in the US is boring as all get out because it is pure memorization. I would point out that everyone dealt with that little roadblock pretty easily, they asked people to tell them the capitols and pretty much everyone they asked pulled out a cell phone and looked it up. I don't think anyone actually told the racers the capitols from memory.

[d291173]

 

I was surprised by the Dentists. If they were going to be sniping at each other this leg would have been it.

I have the feeling that Jim is super concerned about appearances and saves all his sniping for off camera. That's why Misty was all trying to butter him up, about being such a supportive teammate, during their TH. But his face said, to me, "Oh, just wait til I get you alone". 

 

This is based on nothing but my gut instinct, and I could be totally wrong.

I also get a distinctly sinister vibe from their dynamic. That does not feel like a healthy relationship. Like, at all.

 

While I remember, let me just say that two-faced flower pot was deliciously evil.  Someone deserves a bonus for thinking that one up!

Yes. The people who thought "Oh, the garden one is easy" got tripped up but good by the Flower Pot Of Evil.  

 

I'm beginning to think that they're playing a lot dumber than they really are. They're used to being characters.

... 

I'm rooting for them.

I second these thoughts. 

 

Either an elimination is scheduled -- in which case you get eliminated -- or NO elimination is scheduled, in which case you DON'T. 

 

Mugging, Marked for elimination, Speed Bumps, etc, are all attempts to jazz up a formula that was just right from the beginning.  I call for the elimination of the U-Turn, and the return of the Yield, and a Fast Forward on each leg.

Nope. Kill the Yield. Kill it with fire. I have better things to do with my television-watching time than spend it having to put up with people sitting around with nothing better to do than bitch about the people what done them wrong. And the festering animosity poisons any future legs.

This also brings up what I think should happen with the Save on an NEL. I agree there should have been a contingency, but I don't think they went with the right one. If there'd been a contingency NEL later in the race (which the racers had been made aware of), it would've made this situation that much more bearable.

 

Jim and Misti are not my favorite team, but I just wanted to slip in a correction before we go too far assuming how old they are.  They are actually 37 and 36, respectively.  I found this information on The Amazing Race CBS website.

Jesus, really? Rode Hard clearly married Put Away Wet. 

 

Sorry, but both acted immaturely but Shelley was worse to me.  She has decided that instead of being on the Amazing Race she wants to be on the Amazing Teach My Daughter a Lesson show.  And I'm not very interested in that show.

Amen. I do not need to see a show about how to cut off your nose to spite your face.

 

Funny how they don't grab a passer-by and ask "What are the capitals..." Instead they ask "Do you have a SmartPhone?"  Like, "Well, I don't know the answer, so everyone else must be a dumb-ass too!"

Eh. I think the equation was more "I don't know" = "I need to look it up on a phone" + "I don't have a phone" = "I need to find someone with a phone".  

[Skittl1321]

I'm glad the save is a true golden ticket.  If you have to play it before Phil says "and you've been eliminated from the race" (rather than saying "no, you can't do that!") then it really isn't like survivor where there is strategy of "should I play it or not".  In survivor you get a feel for the tribe, and people who leave holding the idol were mislead.  But on TAR there is no way for the racers to know if it is elimination or not; there is no strategy, so using the save with strategy (except: use it if the situation arises) makes no sense. And I wouldn't like the race to force wasting it.

 

I thought the capitals asked for were general knowledge. Now if they asked for Estonia, I could imagine some people wouldn't know Tallinn, but the countries named are pretty well known places.

[shura]

Eh. I think the equation was more "I don't know" = "I need to look it up on a phone" + "I don't have a phone" = "I need to find someone with a phone".

 

Sure, but to the passer-by the question sounded as "My Swedish friend, please use your smartphone and look up the capital of your own country. And the city on the other end of this here bridge."

 

I was wondering - purely academically, not intending to criticize anybody - if it's even necessary to spell "capital" correctly to be able to look it up. No worries, we don't need to know anything! Google will think and know things for us. It even knows how to bend a nail.

[Special K]

I totally loved Ida the sandwich proprietess.

 

She would be all stern:  "That is not correct." Keeping a straight face through all the antics.  And then when they finally got it right, the stony exterior would crack and she'd smile and get hugged.  I loved how she said to Mrs. Dentist, "It was the numbers, darling!!"

 

Loved the restaurant patrons, too.

 

I want to go to Copenhagen.

[jhlipton]

Hah!  Made me laugh out loud.  Thanks, Bryce Lynch.

 

I actually knew the capitols, the flags and where to find those countries on the map.

 

 

I know the capitols and where to find them, and I could draw the flags in black and white (LOL).  But other than Denmark, I can never remember which colors go where for each country...

 

Also not fair was the Sandra Bullock lookalike cyclist and her pal not having to redo their task as they delivered the cake in more than one piece...that didn't seem right at all.

 

They delivered it in one piece, having put it back together before bringing it in.  As far as the "cake-taker" knew, they had transported it in one piece, and the rules never said they couldn't.  I like that they were rewarded for being smart.

 

I want to go to Copenhagen.

It really is a beautiful city, the transportation is GREAT (both in the city and out to the exurbs), and the people are super friendly. If it wasn't so cold, I could easily live there.

(In the city, 90% or more of the people speak English very well. As you move out into the suburbs and exurbs, it starts to drop off. I once had a fun "conversation" with a lady as we were waiting for our train -- I knew about 10 words of Danish (I only found out I was going about a week before I left) and she knew about as much English. But somehow we managed to understand each other.)

Edited October 21, 2014 by jhlipton

[Skittl1321]

 

Make it like the Hidden Immunity Idols on Survivor - you have to decide to play it before you know the final results.

 

What clues could you use to know whether you should play it or not?

 

On Survivor there is an entire discussion that comes up before the vote, so you make an informed decision to decide to play it or not.  That element doesn't exist in TAR.

[ProfCrash]

They knew that they were in last place which is why they played it. They did not know it was a NEL so they got it back. I agree, once it is played it is played. If they think they are in last and it turns out that they are not and they use the save it should be gone. If they use it and it is a NEL, it should be gone. If they lose it somewhere on the race course, then it is gone.

 

This save is pretty much the Tyler Perry idol on steroids. Not only can it be used to save them but if they use it and they are not last or its a NEL they get it back. That would be like allowing the person to get their idol back if they were not the lowest vote getter. Just wrong.

[cooksdelight]

I think the Save is going to get some Heat from viewers if used in this manner, and perhaps we won't see it again.

[Scout Finch]

A few thoughts...

 

I thought the cake maitre'd needed to seriously lay off the tanning and remove the stud from her face (don't like face piercings).

 

Here in Portland, they just started doing the parklet thing in one of our trendy neighborhoods, although in this case it's for extra outside dining spaces. I haven't gone there in ages because parking is extremely limited, so it seems like a bad idea. Also, why would you want to be right next to all the vehicle exhaust?

 

I am a picky eater and was grossed out by all the weird combinations and ingredients on the sandwich menu. Did not see one single thing that sounded appetizing!

Edited October 21, 2014 by Scout Finch

[wineaux]

I may be wrong, but it appears that many fans don't like The Save because:

 

1 - they are Survivor viewers and are applying what Survivor does with their idol thingie to The Amazing Race rules.  I don't watch Survivor (only season 1, which is now many, many moons ago) so I (and others who also don't watch it) can't relate to what they do on that show.  What works on Survivor may not work on TAR. 

 

2 - they do not like the dentists and since they came in last, want them gone.  Period.

 

Not my fav team either, but I trust the TAR producers and other PTB to try new things (as they've done in the past).  They haven't made that many wrong turns or they wouldn't have lasted 25 seasons.   If it doesn't seem to work, they will change it.  We may not like what happened, but Phil gave it back according to how the rule was written. 

 

Playing devils advocate, if a fan favorite team had The Save and were in the dentist's position (last place) and it was returned to them because it was a NEL (as Phil did for the dentists), IMO, I don't think the outcry would be the same. 

 

 

[Skittl1321]

That would be like allowing the person to get their idol back if they were not the lowest vote getter. Just wrong.

 

I disagree. It would be like letting someone get their idol back if the elimination was canceled altogether.

 

Now, if they had to play their save before they knew if they were last or not, on an elimination leg; that would be like getting it back if they were not the lowest vote getter.  I actually would support that. It makes it like the U-turn; you have to know what other teams are up to.

[etagloh]

I dislike the Save because it's too much of a gift within the specific dynamics of TAR: handing it out to the first leg winners is likely to reward a strong team and there are enough NELs to allow that team two or three bad days. It feels like a way for TPTB to book a team for the final 3 from the outset, or at least single them out as a specific target, which is likely to detract from the race in the way that super-stuntcast teams (hi Brenchel!) have done in the past.

 

The Express Pass can be negated with a U-Turn, which rewards good racing from other teams in later legs, and while I'm not a massive fan of either, the interplay between them is interesting. (Consider Jet and Cord using their Express Pass preemptively in Switzerland to get to the W-Turn ahead of the pack: that's a strategy that might catch on.) There's nothing other teams can do to "de-buff" a team with the Save.

[SnideAsides]

What clues could you use to know whether you should play it or not?

My first thought would be the number of clues in the box at the last task. If you know you grab the second-last clue, and then a team passes you at the task, or if you still finish ahead of them but get lost going to the Pit Stop...

1 - they are Survivor viewers and are applying what Survivor does with their idol thingie to The Amazing Race rules.  I don't watch Survivor (only season 1, which is now many, many moons ago) so I (and others who also don't watch it) can't relate to what they do on that show.  What works on Survivor may not work on TAR.

It's worth noting that Survivor went through a teething phase like this too before it settled on the rules it has now. First it was "use your idol and nobody can vote for you", then it was "use your idol after the votes are read", and now it's "use your idol after votes are cast but before they're read, and any votes for you are voided". I agree that what works on one show may not work on another - it's clunky and show-ruining on Survivor, but it actually tended to make The Mole more interesting when players had the chance to win exemptions - but in this case it's worth a shot. The way it's been handled is the biggest misfire this show's had in years, and last season existed.

[Tryangle]

Hurricane Gonzalo slowed me up but this episode was well worth the wait to watch, Liked the tasks and the journey, although I'd have liked to know the flight routes/airlines used by each team to get from Aberdeen to Copenhagen.

 

Shame the SAVE didn't get burned, mind you. And as for the Flight attendant team, yikes.

[Netfoot]

I may be wrong, but it appears that many fans don't like The Save because.....

 

I don't like it because it is too much like a Go-Straight-To-Final-Three gimmick.

 

Look, the person who comes first on leg #1 is presumably a good racer.  If you look back over the entire 24 race history of TAR, the leg#1 winner has gone on to win the race 6 of 24 times (25%), and made the final three 13 of 24 times (better than 50%).  They only fell below 5th place 6 of 24 times.  And I'm including classic TAR and Family Edition, so more recently, in the last 12 races, the leg#1 winner went on to win 4 of 12 times (33%).  They made it into the final three 8 of 12 times (66%).  Only 2 of 12 times did the leg#1 winner place less than 5th. 

 

Of course, leg#1 winners can screw up.  But in practice, they do so only infrequently.  The real truth is, teams that start winning legs out of the gate, usually continue to win legs.

 

So, the team that wins the first leg is already likely to do well just on their talents alone.  With a Save in their pocket, it is very, very likely they will go on to race to the mat for the $1M!   I have no idea why TPTB thought they needed to increase their chances by handing out Express Passes, but at lease an EP can be screwed up (just ask Jessica & John).  The Save is bulletproof.  You don't have to decide to use it, or risk using it wrong.  If you come last, you simply don't get eliminated.  Which increases your chance of getting into the final three, to what?  A virtual certainty?  And of winning to a 2 out of 3 likelihood?

 

So the reason I don't like the Save is because it screws with the dynamics of the game.  Now, I don't much like the Dentists.  Not because they are bad racers, or unpleasant people, or disrespectful, or anything like that.  I simply don't like them because those teeth and the goldfish eyes and the orange skin look really creepy.  But I have accepted that they have already won this race.  They won it four episodes ago because of the GDMF Save!

 

I continue to watch because, well, it's possible the dentists will have another TWO royal screw-ups and end up eliminated.  But frankly, I'm not holding out much hope.  As far as I'm concerned, this game is over. 

[Camera One]

I agree that the top team on the first leg usually doesn't need to be "saved" and it just makes a strong team even stronger.

 

I do wonder though if the Dentists would have used the Express Pass this leg, or if they would have risked it.  Jim has some tendencies of John from Jessica/John, thinking he could triumph all.  Do you think Jim/Misti would have used it for the restaurant task?

[curbcrusher]

I don't like it because it is too much like a Go-Straight-To-Final-Three gimmick.

 

Look, the person who comes first on leg #1 is presumably a good racer.  If you look back over the entire 24 race history of TAR, the leg#1 winner has gone on to win the race 6 of 24 times (25%), and made the final three 13 of 24 times (better than 50%).  They only fell below 5th place 6 of 24 times.  And I'm including classic TAR and Family Edition, so more recently, in the last 12 races, the leg#1 winner went on to win 4 of 12 times (33%).  They made it into the final three 8 of 12 times (66%).  Only 2 of 12 times did the leg#1 winner place less than 5th. 

 

 

  Nice set of stats Netfoot, but I think one is missing. How often is the team that finishes first in the first leg eliminated before the 9th leg?  Something I would think the game designers took into account.  Its a gimmick, but its possibly one that would never have been used over the history of the race, or used only once or twice. So TPTB get a "new and improved" feature to market, but know that it really only has miniscule impact on the whole game. It does however get people excited (good or bad) and talking about the show.

[Jersey Guy 87]

I don't know how else they could handle the Save - there's no reason to know whether a given leg is an elimination leg or not, so saying you have to play it before you know that is silly.  It's completely random and completely out of control of the racers.  Saying you have to play it before you know if you're last is also clunky - Phil would have to ask the team with the save if they want to play it before he announces their placement every leg - that would get very, very tiresome.  I don't particularly like the save (it's too big of a bonus, IMO) but since it's a factor in this race I think the rules as they seem to exist are about the best they can be.  And I am actively rooting against the Dentists.

[Netfoot]

How often is the team that finishes first in the first leg eliminated before the 9th leg?  Something I would think the game designers took into account.

 

Of the leg#1 winners, there has been one 10th place elimination (S5 Alison & Donny) and two 9th place eliminations (S7 Debbie & Bianca, S22 Jessica & John).  Note only one of these three occurred in 'modern' TAR, within the last dozen races, and that was Jessica & John, eliminated with an Express Pass in their pocket.  If John hadn't been so foolish with the EP, that elimination might have been avoided, and who knows how far they might have gone?

 

I don't particularly like the save (it's too big of a bonus, IMO) but since it's a factor in this race I think the rules as they seem to exist are about the best they can be.  And I am actively rooting against the Dentists.

 

I agree.  I think the Save has the potential to ruin the game by virtually declaring a winner in episode #1.  But I don't see how they could practically change the rules regarding how it's played. 

 

They might change the rule about how it's won.  Instead of just handing it to the best team so far at the end of leg#1, they could make teams work for it in something like a super hard, competitive FF.  Risk losing the race by going for the Save!  It isn't first-come, first-served, so you might not be the one to get it!  You might get, it but be so late as a result, you've got to use it immediately to Save yourself!  Rah, rah, rah!  Please let's don't go this route -- just abandon the damned thing ASAP!

[Skittl1321]

 

My first thought would be the number of clues in the box at the last task. If you know you grab the second-last clue, and then a team passes you at the task, or if you still finish ahead of them but get lost going to the Pit Stop...

Producers often put extra clues in the box- so they are actively preventing this from being plausible.

 

But there is NOTHING that can clue a racer to whether or not it is a non-elimination leg; which is the main information that a last team would need to know to use their save.

[wineaux]

  Nice set of stats Netfoot, but I think one is missing. How often is the team that finishes first in the first leg eliminated before the 9th leg?  Something I would think the game designers took into account.  Its a gimmick, but its possibly one that would never have been used over the history of the race, or used only once or twice. So TPTB get a "new and improved" feature to market, but know that it really only has miniscule impact on the whole game. It does however get people excited (good or bad) and talking about the show.

 

I was curious so I checked, and it turns out that out of 24 seasons, 9 teams that came in 1st place in the first leg were eliminated by the end of the 9th leg.  The most interesting of those 9 teams is Rob/Amber.  They placed 1st for the first 3 legs and were eliminated in the 4th leg.

 

So there is a good possibility that they may have to pull The Save out of their pocket again (depending on where the NELs pop up).  And, using Rob and Amber as an example, it doesn't matter if they come in first in every subsequent leg before the 9th.  If they come in last in the 9th leg and it's not a NEL, they have to use it to stay in the race.  If it is a NEL and they still have it, the SAVE will expire. 

 

What makes it interesting now (for me) is watching how the dentists race from this point (confidence level, humility, attitude towards each other, etc).  Even doing their best, they could be one bad taxi driver away from elimination with or without the SAVE.

[etagloh]

 

So TPTB get a "new and improved" feature to market, but know that it really only has miniscule impact on the whole game.

 

They did that with "$2m prize" as the first-leg bonus in TAR21, which wasn't used. We know that more often than not, a first-leg winning team doesn't need much extra assistance to get to the later legs. But even if it's an unnecessary buff, it distorts the race dynamics more than having a bigger prize at the end. Perhaps that's the experiment, then: does rewarding a strong team with the option to take big risks early on make them behave differently, and make other teams behave differently towards them?

 

 

Liked the tasks and the journey, although I'd have liked to know the flight routes/airlines used by each team to get from Aberdeen to Copenhagen.

 

We know from airlines and departure boards that some teams went through Amsterdam with KLM, others with SAS through Stavanger, but there were a lot of options available for two-leg flights and (I think) one direct route.

[Tryangle]

We know from airlines and departure boards that some teams went through Amsterdam with KLM, others with SAS through Stavanger, but there were a lot of options available for two-leg flights and (I think) one direct route.

 

Cheers, etagloh. I noticed SAS and KLM planes so yeah, Amsterdam was a possibility. Can't remember which plane Tim and TeJay took for example, but recall they got delayed at some point on the way to Copenhagen. I wouldn't have guessed Aberdeen was that big of a hub for airline travel.

[Sharpie66]

Aberdeen's the end point for all of the North Sea oil workers to fly into when they have to head out to the rigs, so they've got flights coming in from all over.

[merylinkid]

The Save can also protect a team you like from coming in last just because they got a bad taxi driver?    How many times have people complained that a team got eliminated just because they got a bad taxi driver?    

 

It's a tool on the game.   Just like the express pass or the fast forward.   It can be good -- saving a team you like -- or bad -- saving a team you don't like or sitting in the pocket unused (hello unused Express Pass).

[curbcrusher]

I was curious so I checked, and it turns out that out of 24 seasons, 9 teams that came in 1st place in the first leg were eliminated by the end of the 9th leg.  The most interesting of those 9 teams is Rob/Amber.  They placed 1st for the first 3 legs and were eliminated in the 4th leg.

 

So there is a good possibility that they may have to pull The Save out of their pocket again (depending on where the NELs pop up).  And, using Rob and Amber as an example, it doesn't matter if they come in first in every subsequent leg before the 9th.  If they come in last in the 9th leg and it's not a NEL, they have to use it to stay in the race.  If it is a NEL and they still have it, the SAVE will expire. 

 

What makes it interesting now (for me) is watching how the dentists race from this point (confidence level, humility, attitude towards each other, etc).  Even doing their best, they could be one bad taxi driver away from elimination with or without the SAVE.

 

 

I had to go look also. What I took from my look at first leg winners and where they were eliminated is that of the 24 times the race has been run, 12 times the first place team has made the final 3, and then you add in another three times that the winner of the first leg was eliminated after the 9th leg (TAR 6,8,21) you come up with 15 times that a Save would not have been used in the race. That translates into a 62.5% chance that the Save would not be used.

 

I think the goal of the first leg Save, or Express Pass or prize doubling, is to get all the teams to race the first leg to win, and not race to keep from being eliminated. In some ways the Express Pass on the first leg is more of an advantage than a save. Without taking into account that there is someone that refuses to play it, there's a 50% chance TPTB just gave away a free ride on a task to a strong team because really 100% of all Express Passes should be played. With the doubling of the prize money, there is a 1 in four chance TPTB have to pay out $2 million ( I counted six first leg/race winners in 24 races. TAR 1,10,13,15,19,20). But, there's also a 50% chance that the team with the $2 million option is not going to make it to the final 3, robbing TPTB of the drama and suspense that comes with having that offer on the line. With the Save you've got a prize that has great psychological impact and cost nothing, but based on game history there's only a little over a 1 in 3 (37.5% to be exact) chance of it being used. It also gives TPTB a known story line from the beginning to build their drama and suspense around. They have a real good chance of being able to play the "will they or won't they use the Save" angle for nine straight weeks.

 

I sort of like the Save, and think they may have found a good game element to give away for the first leg, because it sounds like something too good to be true, but in reality is something that would have been useless in most of the games played to date.

[Netfoot]

I'm counting 16 of 24 times the leg#1 winners made it past leg #9.  Of these, 13 of 16 (81%) went on to be in the final three, and 6 of these 13 (46%) went on to win.  This means that 8 of 24 or 33% were eliminated leg#9 or before.   Every single one of these would have been saved by the, uh, Save, were it in effect.  So all 24 would have made it past leg #9.

 

We can only speculate what these 8 Saved teams would have gone on to do.  But 81% of of those who made it past went on to the final leg, with 46% actually winning.  Applying those numbers to the full set of 24 leg#1 winners, we might have seen 19 out of 24 making it to the final leg and 11 winners. 

 

This implies a greatly increased chance (19 of 24 up from 13) of making the final leg, and increased chance (9 of 24 up from 6) of winning.  So sure, there is a 2 to 1 chance the Save won't get played at all, but it's presence in the game goes a long way toward determining the final outcome of the race, as early as the end of leg#1.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Netfoot

[fishcakes]

I was told there would be no math.

[Donny Ketchum]

Of the leg#1 winners, there has been one 10th place elimination (S5 Alison & Donny) and two 9th place eliminations (S7 Debbie & Bianca, S22 Jessica & John).

There was also an eleventh-place elimination -- Amanda & Chris from TAR4, who tied for the win on leg one with Steve & Josh and Millie & Chuck.  So knowing that, Steve & Josh are another ninth-place elimination of a first-leg winner.

[auntlada]

I was told there would be no math.

 

I think it's getting into what Sarah D. Bunting (I think) once called math kudzu.

[etagloh]

 

I think the goal of the first leg Save, or Express Pass or prize doubling, is to get all the teams to race the first leg to win, and not race to keep from being eliminated.

 

That's an explanation I can run with: the first leg (and one or two after) are invariably ones with a jumble of teams that are playing to their description/hashtag in the few minutes of airtime they're allocated, and for more casual viewers, it's probably tricky to watch. There's value in an opening prize that makes it competitive among those on the first spoonfed flight out and identifies a team to viewers to follow for the long haul. TPTB have introduced inter-team drama early on in recent seasons (second Express Pass) or dropped well-known stuntcast teams into the mix to provide that kind of drama. One thing you can say about the Save is that it doesn't generate the helpy-outy alliance-building associated with the extra Express Pass, because it's not a transferable power. And one thing you can say about TAR26 [doh, TAR25] so far is that there's been not a sniff of alliances, which is good.

Edited October 24, 2014 by etagloh

[Netfoot]

There was also an eleventh-place elimination -- Amanda & Chris from TAR4, who tied for the win on leg one with Steve & Josh and Millie & Chuck.  So knowing that, Steve & Josh are another ninth-place elimination of a first-leg winner.

 

OK, so technically, there have been 26 leg#1 winners in the previous 24 races, which does skew the math a bit, but...

 

I was told there would be no math.

 

OK, I'm done. 

And one thing you can say about TAR26 so far is that there's been not a sniff of alliances, which is good.

 

Thank you, time traveller from the future!