S16.E04: Holden's Manifesto

[WendyCR72]

New York City bike messenger Holden March (guest star John Karna) creates a video diary of his troubles with women. Talk soon escalates to action, and the SVU scrambles to find his manifesto before he commits another violent act. When Rollins and Amaro come face to face with Holden, they find out just how dangerous a desperate man can be. Meanwhile, as Benson balances the responsibilities of motherhood and career, the new Deputy Chief of SVU (guest star Peter Gallagher) calls her leadership into question.

 

 

[Primetimer]

An alienated twentysomething goes on a stabbing spree. SVU's new deputy chief goes on an eye-rolling spree.

Read the story

[ShortyMac]

Of course Noah's gotta have some lung issues that will probably stick with him for life because Olivia's can't have a healthy kid (I know, he was born to a druggie mom, but still). So I guess his cold, etc. quickly worsened and that's why he landed in the ER. If it were my kid, I wouldn't leave his/her side. It sucks for Olivia because she's a commanding officer and this was a huge case.

 

Flashbacks of Olivia and Lewis, anyone? Poor Amanda. I feel so bad for her that she had to see that. Is SVU making the rounds and having someone be shot in the head in front of all the characters?

 

Holden was soooooooooooooo creepy.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

This was based on the rich kid in Cali, posted a YT video then went on a shooting spree.

The Chief was a total jackass, refusing to step out so Benson could talk in private.

Think Holden poisoned the well, with Rollins and Amaro.

[Dot Com]

I missed Barba. I didn't care for the new deputy chief. However I wouldn't mind seeing the first time he and Barba meet.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Dot Com

[CMH1981]

I can't imagine being that close to someone who is taken out by a sharp shooter.  I'm guessing Rollins is going to go down a dark path for a few episodes now, and i'm hoping somehow that Olivia confronts Nick and Amanda about their sexual relationship now.  If crazy kid can figure out the two are boinking within seconds of meeting the two of them, it shouldn't be hard for Olivia or Finn to figure it out.

 

So is the new guy gone now that Nick is back?

 

I'm hoping this is the last season b/c I really think they are setting it up for Olivia to step down or retire due to this child and her being scared of losing foster parent custody.

[Everleigh]

Holden was super creepy. And the actor had that deranged Elliot Rodger slow deliberate talking thing down.

 

Olivia being caught between her job and her kid is cliched and predictable, but that's probably because it is a pretty common problem for working mothers, especially mothers in a position as demanding as Olivia's. But Olivia didn't go out looking to adopt Noah, the judge asked her, knowing full well what she did for a living, to take custody of him, so her having a demanding job shouldn't come as a surprise to the social worker and accusing her of not caring was pretty shitty. I'm guessing there's gonna be more of these baby vs job issues coming up, because what's the point of giving Olivia a baby if it can't create even more drama and heartache for her? They'll probably have her lose the kid at some point because she spends too much time at work and Olivia needs to be in a constant state of distress.  

 

I like that Olivia's backup babysitter is Nick's mom though, there's something oddly sweet about them being close enough as partners for her to call on his mom for help. 

 

Ah, the old "kiss the perp" routine... guess Rollins is slowly becoming Olivia.

 

Looking forward to seeing more of Deputy Chief Jackass Peter Gallagher.

 

Think Holden poisoned the well, with Rollins and Amaro.

 

I hope so. I was over that relationship the moment it started. I have no desire to see any romantic pairing on the show, it makes it feel too soap opera-y for me. Just let them all have off-screen love lives. 

 

and i'm hoping somehow that Olivia confronts Nick and Amanda about their sexual relationship now.  If crazy kid can figure out the two are boinking within seconds of meeting the two of them, it shouldn't be hard for Olivia or Finn to figure it out.

 

I got the sense that Olivia knows but just isn't saying anything. She made that "get a room comment" last season before anyone knew Rollins and Amaro were sleeping together, and last episode, she had a sort of knowing look on her face when she asked Nick how he knew about some detail of the case they were working before he got back on the squad (implying she knew Amanda told him). Carisi also seemed to catch on when he walked in on Nick and Amanda standing ridiculously close at the producer's pool party last episode. It looks like Fin might be the only one in the dark, everyone else seems to be willfully ignoring the issue, but I imagine it will come out sooner or later. 

[stillbored]

I was glad to see Fin back this week. And I didn't miss the new guy at all. I don't like the new deputy chief - he's a jerk (to Olivia) and clearly doesn't have a problem with crossing the line when it comes to suspects.

I wonder how much of the stuff that Rollins was saying about Amaro was actually true (she was sort of implying that Nick didn't treat her like a prinicess). Was she actually going to kiss the guy or was she just getting close enough to disarm. (I know Olivia kissed that CSI newbie that had Elliot tied up, but at least she knew him first). And being so close to a guy that was just shot in the head must've been terrifying (especially since she got his blood in her mouth).

I think the social worker was being terrible to Olivia - I'm pretty sure Olivia went and saw Noah everyday. No - she wasn't there all the time, but that's VERY realistic. Especially when it comes to single mothers. When I was an infant and in the hospital my parents didn't see me for a full week. My father worked and my mom had 2 other small children at home to take care of and the hospital was in a different city. But like my parents said - there were competent doctors/nurses there, and it's not like they really could've done anything. At least Liv managed to have someone their with Noah that he knew.

Liv made it seem in last weeks episode that she knew something was going on between Nick and Rollins.

[mledawn]

An alienated twentysomething goes on a stabbing spree. SVU's new deputy chief goes on an eye-rolling spree.

http://previously.tv/law-and-order-svu/so-youre-both-complete-morons-wonderful-peter-gallaghers-eyebrows/"> Read the story

 

Sars owes me a new keyboard and "capital city of Profeshistan" is my new must-use phrase.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

thanks!

[Bill C.]

Deputy Chief Dick...er, Dodds is/was an interesting enough addition, even if Peter Gallagher came off like an old no-longer-giving-a-shit Mike Logan with more authority.  I'm still kind of puzzled that they got my Criminal Minds peanut butter stuck in my SVU chocolate with this one, though by oblique extension: if an off-his-meds psycho can tell Rollins and Amaro are banging (though probably not for the near future, going off the ending), what's Fin's excuse?

 

And come to think of it...like with Fin's absence last week, unless I missed something, they didn't even mention Detective Flanders this week.  Hmm.

 

...Olivia didn't go out looking to adopt Noah, the judge asked her, knowing full well what she did for a living, to take custody of him, so her having a demanding job shouldn't come as a surprise to the social worker and accusing her of not caring was pretty shitty.

 

It's how utterly bitchy the social worker sounded about it that made me want someone in the show to friggin' clock her with a bedpan.  I suspect it was a deliberate directing choice, but still.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

 

an old no-longer-giving-a-shit Mike Logan

 

a.k.a. ...Mike Logan on L&O: CI. heh.

[yankee1151]

No Barba, no bueno...

 

I didn't even notice the new guy was missing until someone here mentioned it.  So is he just gone with no explanation now that Amaro is back?

[Bill C.]

a.k.a. ...Mike Logan on L&O: CI. heh.

 

Hah.  I'll allow it, though I think CI-period Logan kinda gave more of a shit than Dodds--if admittedly in the same general "Christ, these people..." vein. :)

Edited October 16, 2014 by Bill C.

[Spartan Girl]

Glad I'm not the only one that thought Holden was Lewis Jr.  I'm honestly glad they shot him: there's a fine line between being genuinely mentally ill and being a obsessive narcissist that blames all women for not liking them.  So no, I didn't buy the mother's argument that he was "sick" and I didn't at all feel sorry for her at the end.  I felt sorrier for Holden's victims, including his former teacher, whose baby is going to grow up without a father just because some sick little punk was jealous that she got married. 

 

Sorry to get on the soapbox, it's just that I take this kind of crap personally.  I was socially awkward, picked on, had a terrible time in high school, and never went on a date, but I never went on a killing spree and hurt people -- maybe because my parents actually bothered to raise me right. 

Edited October 16, 2014 by Spartan Girl

[dusang]

Alarmingly, show writers report that on researching Elliot Rodger they found seven or eight similar but less publicized incidents in the last year.

[ethalfrida]

I found him being taken out before he got his first ever kiss was too sad. Actually his lack of social a life was too sad period. I went through this whole thing about what probably happened in his growing years, sort of armchair analyzing. This was a truly depressing episode.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Flashbacks of Olivia and Lewis, anyone? Poor Amanda. I feel so bad for her that she had to see that. Is SVU making the rounds and having someone be shot in the head in front of all the characters?

Yeah, and have we seen that happen to any of the male detectives in recent memory? Whatever, I guess this is what will lead to Amanda and Nick breaking up.

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, and have we seen that happen to any of the male detectives in recent memory? Whatever, I guess this is what will lead to Amanda and Nick breaking up.

 

Well, there was Elliott's Hulkamania rage issues. But it's strange: SVU seems to leave the men alone, for the most part. But they went through the ringer on The Mothership and CI. Maybe SVU thinks targeting the women makes the fuckery equal.

[RockShrimp]

Alarmingly, show writers report that on researching Elliot Rodger they found seven or eight similar but less publicized incidents in the last year.

... Ugh. That episode was terrifying... like watching TRPers IRL. I never watched the Elliot Rodger videos because I didn't want to and now I'm happier that I didn't. 

 

Also, could they have picked any name other than HOLDEN. Like I don't hate Catcher in the Rye enough.

[Medicine Crow]

Did anyone else get a creep vibe off the nanny?  She seemed very "distant" at the hospital or was it just poor acting.

 

Also, nothing goes to my stomach more than seeing the screws turned on a woman who has to choose work over her family obligations.  That scene where Olivia was trying to take a call privately was just over the top acting-wise (in a good way).

[theredhead77]

I'm a recovering SVU watcher and only watched this week because I had laundry to fold and couldn't find the remote.

 

Don't know or care about what is or isn't going on between Amanda and Amaro. What really bothered me about this entire episode is they had to call Holden "on the Spectrum". People who are legitimately "on the Spectrum" get such a bad rap already they don't need this too. They could have just gone with a sociopath who fell through the cracks, or a thousand other scenarios.

[MorbidPet]

I liked this episode a lot. I think John Karna did a really good job, that was not an easy part to carry. And this show really seems to have something against deputy chiefs eh? Atlanta PD has one of them pricks & apparently NYPD has one too. Saying that though I think Peter Gallagher rocked, I like pricks. Too bad Benson didn't handle this prick that well though but I'll excuse her for this ep, she was worried about Noah after all. She'll get another chance to handle him next episode judging by the previews.

I could've had less of Noah at the hospital but they could've milked it even more so I shouldn't complain. Still would've preferred Fin buying Amanda a beer or something as the end scene before Holden's last words.

 

And that brings me to... Kelli Giddish! I know I'm bias but wow. She's just amazing. I'm not sure what went on inside her head though as Holden was talking about Amaro and her being another notch in his belt and all. Holden's description of Amaro was not accurate to me, Amaro is a choir boy ;) but I think what he said will mess with her head. At heart I'm a Finanda shipper but now that they've gone down the Rollaro route I don't want her in the sack with another one on the squad so for me it's okay if it continues, though subtle and mostly off screen but I like the tension an interoffice romance can bring. Like that last scene when he came rushing in to her kneeling by Holden's body and she blames him and then shrugs him off, that was brilliant. I don't think they're over but it will be a bump, should be a bump. According to WL's twitter account

episode 8 will be Rollaro heavy

so that's also why I don't think it's over. Yet.

I hope they follow up in the next ep, like Liv sending her to the shrink or something like that. Liv knows what it's like to have someone's blood/brain all over their face & for Amanda it really came out of the blue (man that makes me think of a really bad Kurt Cobain joke), I'm pretty sure she really thought she was saving this guy. And it's not like Liv stayed even one second to check up on Amanda at the scene, she bolted to the hospital asap, so she owes her big time. Yeah I know Noah yadayada but I'm still holding on to some hope Liv will show some affection towards Amanda at some point, if she's going to play the boss she better do a better job than what she's been doing and take care of her squad like Cragen did.

[frogprof]

Oh, PLEASE tell me that Peter Gallagher is not going to be even a semi-regular on this show ... I get more than enough of him on "Covert Affairs" [don't judge]. And he was such an SOB to Olivia, staying in her office when she was trying to deal with a "family emergency" [and even Nick left, wanting to pull DCD with him, it looked like]. I'm sure he has a wonderful little stay-at-home wife AND a nanny to take care of any "family emergencies" he might have.

 

Yeesh.

 

What really bothered me about this entire episode is they had to call Holden "on the Spectrum". People who are legitimately "on the Spectrum" get such a bad rap already they don't need this too.

Hear hear! I have a nephew with Asperger's and a niece who's more severely affected by autism ... what with Elliot Rodger and Adam Lanza both being reported [or accused?] as having Asperger's, people who don't know better are liable to think that ANYone on the spectrum is violent and/or deranged. GRRRR.

[jhfield4]

I'm sorry, Holden speaking without using contractions made me think of Data from ST:TNG for the whole show.

[lucindabelle]

I didn't know this was based on a real case, and not knowing that, i found this just so uninspired and dull. A loser hates women. Yawn. And I too thought the on to he spectrum comment was egregious and offensive, after the shooting two years ago that's great all the world needs is to continue think of autistic people as bogeymen.

On the opposite side, curious incident of the dog in the nighttime is the best play on roadway and the narrator hero is on the spectrum (it's obvious though it's never said).

Eta: wearing his head as rouge? One of the funniest recaps I've ever read. Well done!

Edited October 17, 2014 by lucindabelle

[Sarah D. Bunting]

thanks!

[Snookums]

TV writers naming yet another disaffected and obnoxious post-adolescent male character "Holden." ...Wait, that isn't a felony. SHOULD BE THO.

 

 

SERIOUSLY. Why not just name your kid "disaffected pretentious jackass" and have done with it?

 

As tired as I am of the SVU team running roughshod over shit like protocol, overtime, etc, I had no patience at all with Dunn or the social worker. Liv didn't leave Noah in a box with a dish of cat food, for God's sake, he's in a good hospital getting literally all the care. Why the hell is Liv getting this static after having been there all night and trying to capture a spree killer on no sleep while still thinking of her babysitter and calling in relief? As other posters have said, if Dunn's kid was in a similar situation he'd be a fucking hero in the same set of circumstances. 

 

Also, why the hell is Dodd so hot to ruin Liv's life from the getgo? He had to wait for a meeting? Does he live in the world? Dude, fucking reschedule, she's working. 

 

Baby Noah is absolutely adorable, I have to say. He's so cute when he's smiling.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Snookums

[windfall]

So how did Olivia end up with what appears to be the only social worker in SVU that actually checks on their cases? I admit that I'm not intimately familiar with parental responsibilities, but what exactly is wrong with having a trusted family friend there at the hospital instead? Besides, it's not like they can do much other than to provide some company to the patient.

 

Anyways, not sure why the deputy chief was acting so ungracious. If he didn't have an appointment set up beforehand, and Olivia wasn't even expecting him, then why shouldn't he have to wait? Obviously she will try to accommodate him immediately, but I thought it was just plain rude.

[Josette]

 

Did anyone else get a creep vibe off the nanny?  She seemed very "distant" at the hospital or was it just poor acting.

I didn't pick up on that, but after Olivia told the disapproving social worker that Noah had old injuries, I expected the social worker to say that she'd discovered they were recent, and we'd discover the babysitter was abusive. Instead she just sniped about Olivia not being with the baby.

[GarnetGirl]

I was hoping that Peter Gallagher's character would be little more gray that straight up villain, because it would be interesting to look at the issue of motherhood/worklife balance in a way that is not as over the top as they are playing it here. That social worker is the same one who was Noah's case worker last year, so I don't know why she is so snippy with Olivia when the poor kid has been in about 18 different horrifying situations, and clearly Olivia is doing a pretty good job considering, but whatevs. The actual case was kind of boring, although the scenes in the school with Rollins and Holden were interesting. I wonder where they are going to go with her character, considering they have already gone to a lot of dark places. I agree with the recap in that No Barba= No Bueno. I'm not sure why he couldn't have watched Noah in the hospital- he would have handled the snippy social worker and the even snippier doctor with two shakes of a pocket square.

[Princess Sparkle]

No Barba, no bueno...

 

I didn't even notice the new guy was missing until someone here mentioned it.  So is he just gone with no explanation now that Amaro is back?

Last week, Liv said she needed Nick back because she was down a detective, so theoretically, she'd still need Carisi to have a full squad.  I'm hoping he'll be back next week; he's really growing on me.

 

I love Peter Gallagher and his majestic eyebrows, so even though he was a dick, I thoroughly enjoyed his presence.  I hope he ends up being a recurring character too.  

 

I knew after the Elliot Rodgers incident, SVU would do it and bungle it.  OF COURSE he was named Holden.  I do have to give the actor some credit though; he left me unsettled in a way that Lewis never did.  Lewis was an over the top caricature; this kid I actually believed was an unbalanced psycho that I should be worried about.

[Kel Varnsen]

Was that kid doing a Christopher Walken impression or is that actually the way the actor talks?

 

Also with the number of police in the NYPD I have never understood why there isn't more than one shift of SVU detectives. I mean if someone comes in to report a rape at night when Benson/Fin/Rollins/Amaro are off do they have to wait until the morning? Then again at least if there was another shift Olivia wouldn't be able to call in a favour and have the other shift commander handle the case for her. 

 

Also it seemed kind of shitty to me when the doctor said that with babies in the foster system, broken ribs that get healed over are not uncommon. It came across as her saying that most foster parents are abusive. I would have to think that wouldn't be the case. 

 

Lastly it would have been cool if there was a scene where Olivia called Munch to watch over her baby. You know he would do it, working for the DA he probably works 9-5 and if Belzer wasn't available, you could just as easily make it a one sided phone conversation, or have her tell Amaro that Munch was there.

[Princess Sparkle]

Was that kid doing a Christopher Walken impression or is that actually the way the actor talks?

Neither; he was imitating (pretty dead on, I might add) the actual Elliot Rodgers' pattern of speaking in his "retribution" video.