S05.E01: No Sanctuary

[Eln5]

yes! i adored that second hug as well. the first one was the shocking, happy-to-see-you hug, the second one was more emotion, more omg-are-you-really-here hug, where he just fell into her, head dipped against her. i loved it!

The second hug was what got me. Daryl kind of pushed his head onto her the same way a cat does when they are showing affection. I've read plenty of interviews with Norman Reedus where he talks about his beloved cat, I wonder if he drew inspiration from that.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Eln5

[ElleMo]

That's what I was just coming to ask.  I totally thought that was the remains of the katana and was going to ask if anyone remembered it getting broken last season.

 

 

I rewound just to check and the weapon even had a strap for carrying.  It looked to put together to be something that she made in a box car, bt why would they give her even a broken Katana in that car.  I don't recall the Katana being broken but it didn't look like it was with the stuff in the room.  Carol found Daryl's bow and Rick's watch;  she wasn't even looking specifically for them.  Wouldn't she have looked for he Katana since she was pretty sure Michonne was there?

[kikismom]

I hope now that Greg Nicotero is the show-runner, that this is the pace we will see. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it is magnificent when it runs like this (as opposed to slogging through molasses like Arrow On The Doorpost.)

 

Not to be rude, but as soon as they are all reunited, couldn't Eugene and Tara and Tyreese take a walk with Carl and Judith and set up snares or get water or play I-Spy or something so the other people could, you know, have sex?!?! After you were that close to horrendous death, and escaped and are safe and reunited---well if people don't just want to do the wild thing then, they never will.

Glenn and Maggie, and Abraham and Rosita---those are obvious. Sasha and Bob? What the hell--in a world like this you don't need no steenkeeng first date cuate!

Now...what to do, what to do? Carol and Daryl...or  Daryl and Michonne and Carol and Rick? Talk about make-up sex.

Edited October 13, 2014 by kikismom

[henripootel]

Anyone else wish Rick or Carol had point-blank asked the Termites "How are you guys any better than the walkers?"

 

 

To which they would have replied, "We cook our meat."

Ha - good one, truly, but how about 'We know better'.  The termites are worse than the zombies, and at least as bad as the rapers who attacked them.  They knew what they did was wrong (albeit 'justifed' cuz the world told them to) but they did it anyway, and were well-organized about it.  Screw you, Cannibals, you die first.

The poor guy getting his face eaten by flambé walker - when people say sucking face is a great way to go, I don't think that's what they mean.

You make out with the Ghost Rider, you get what's comin'.

[lulee]

I think Michonne had dropped the katana itself when ordered but still had the sheath and used that to make her new double poker

Edited October 13, 2014 by lulee

[JenMcSnark]

I rewound just to check and the weapon even had a strap for carrying.  It looked to put together to be something that she made in a box car, bt why would they give her even a broken Katana in that car.  I don't recall the Katana being broken but it didn't look like it was with the stuff in the room.  Carol found Daryl's bow and Rick's watch;  she wasn't even looking specifically for them.  Wouldn't she have looked for he Katana since she was pretty sure Michonne was there?

 

I also had the thought about why would they have let her keep it; maybe they thought she wouldn't be able to do anything with it so it was a mockery to let her keep it.  But they don't know our dear Michonne. BAMF

 

And on my rewatch I paused at the moments Carol looked at the table and when she was picking up the crossbow, and I couldn't see anything that resembled the katana.

 

Another thing:  What are the comic book trio hiding?  Is it that Sasquatch doesn't really have a cure? Or something else?  I thought it was really suspect when the girl told Eugene he didn't have to tell them what the cure was (or that they didn't need to know, depending on whether she was talking to Eugene or Sasha).  And then later when Abe told her that they would talk to them, but not now.

 

It was also interesting how, the last shot of the trio was of only the trio.  None of Camp Dinner Bell was in the picture.  Setting them apart and separate from the group it seemed to me. 

I think Michonne had dropped the katana itself when ordered but still had the sheath and used tat to make her new double poker

And this makes perfect sense!  haha  

[JackONeill]

Although I too doubted whether Tyreese killed the punk, I think it's more likely that Gareth is still alive to make a re-appearance than this guy.  I think it'd be a stretch to have the two of them survive. 

 

And when I say that, I sure hope this doesn't become another The Governor Walks the Earth saga before he reconnects with Rick.  I hope if and when Gareth pops back up, it's done all spooky, unexpected style, and it gets done with quick.  Man, they had to keep belaboring the Governor.  We had to get into his head.  Was he good?  Was he bad?  Was he misunderstood?  No, what he was was boring.

 

As someone above said, this show likes to get all "talky" sometimes.  They get into the right or wrong of it all.  Well, I'm sorry but there are dead people walking around who want to kill you and there are living people who want to kill you (and for no reason).  To me, that simplifies things.

[Boofish]

Oh yea, it's not about cutting them slack. I don't think what happened to them is an excuse for their behavior, but it's an explanation. It's kind of like when you find out that a notorious serial killer was horribly abused as a child. You don't say, "Oh okay, well then you go on your merry way. Never mind the fact that you killed all of these people". But you might say, "Wow, that's really sad. He was probably a lovely little boy before that happened to him". 

 

Yes, most of our survivors at this point have experienced some pretty nasty events. But not everyone reacts the same way to trauma. Just like there are millions of kids who were abused and DON'T grow up to be serial killers. I can't really say what it is that causes some people to snap while others can get through it without losing themselves entirely....but I don't think it's the case that anyone who is "bad" in the end was "bad" from the start. 

I get your point here but what was the excuse of every last person they convinced to join them after the fact? Survivor or victim I guess. 

 

Gareth was the body counter and his mother was Top Chef! Imagine my horror when the last few scenes revealed his brother was "the Sunday special." I hope they explore how he ended up Alex a la mode. I will agree that it is more of an "explanation" than an "excuse" but you know you are a fabulous writer and the person saying your words is a fabulous actress when viewers can see her being "dropped off" by rapists and still want her eaten by walkers *bye Felicia*

 

Random side note - I'm assuming a Duggar type family followed the tracks to Terminus; it's the only way to explain Scary Mary outfits

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

 

I hope now that Greg Nicotero is the show-runner, that this is the pace we will see. Maybe that's too much to ask, but it is magnificent when it runs like this (as opposed to slogging through molasses like Arrow On The Doorpost.

Scott Gimple is the show runner and he was last season too. (Arrow on the Doorpost was Mazzara still) I think last season took some time get the show back to where they wanted. I like Scott Gimple so hopefully this will work for him and AMC. Revolving show runners was getting tiresome.

Nicotero is an executive producers, special effects guru, and one of the directors.

 

Regarding Michonne's Katana-esque weapon...... I can't remember if she still had the sheath on her when they went in the boxcar, but I believe she just put the actual katana down, but still had her holder which she used to fashion her double edged weapon of this episode.

[nodorothyparker]

I noticed there is a specific camera shot of Daryl's face when Rick and Carl reunite with Judith and it's not all happy-cool (although I'm confident he was glad of it); I felt there was a strong hint of poignant envy that Rick had a family, had a son and a baby. It's quite an expression on Daryl's face.

 

Half the time I can't tell what expression Daryl's going for anymore because of all the hair hanging in his face.  As truly lovely as the Daryl-Carol reunion was, when he turned to see her only one eye was even visible.  It drives me nuts thinking of trying to fight or shoot like that.

[ghoulina]

I still don't see how the termites went from good guys to eating people. Killing people, yeah, okay I can buy that, don't trust anyone ever again. But why eat them?

 

Yea, I would like to know a little more about how the cannibal part came about too. Perhaps after they took Terminus back there were too few of them to risk going on a run and they were out of food, so they ate some of the bad guys that they took it back from? And once you start eating human flesh, you go a bit mad, so to speak. Perhaps they never intended to eat everyone - just to kill anyone who came near them, but they developed a taste for/addiction to it, and that's what really drove them to lure people there for the dinner plate. 

 

That's what I was just coming to ask.  I totally thought that was the remains of the katana and was going to ask if anyone remembered it getting broken last season.

 

I thought her improvised weapon was made from the sheath of her katana?

[Muffyn]

Easy fan fiction answer - a large train car was filled with shipments of those flameless candles they sell (non-stop it seems) on QVC; a second car was full of batteries.....and the Terminus eternal flame memory room was born.

Joel McHale, is that you? 

[Boofish]

They were using a ripped zipper to cut wood and I believe that is where Michonne got her new weapon. She also only dropped the sword, not the holder. Like Rick said "they screwed with the wrong people" 

 

She stopped long enough to give Eugene a "*ITCH PLEASE" look along side Sasha while Maggie and Tara were hanging on his every word. And Abraham telling Rosita "do not leave his side." *insert Liz Lemon atomic eye roll*

Can the Z Nation gang stop by and pick the three of them up so I can get back to my undying love for the Ricktones because I am unashamed for my love of them all even Beth *hums The Parting Glass*

[Omar G.]

I don't think it's a coincidence that Gimple has written some of the show's strongest episodes (and obviously he has a soft spot for Morgan, having written "Clear.") He's a smart guy and has a good handle on the characters and I think Nicotero has proven to be great at keeping the show moving as a director. Like I said in the Particles piece, they crammed an awful lot of story into one episode. I thought the bulk of this season was going to be mired in Terminus stuff.

[JackONeill]

Speaking to how easy it was for the Termites to start eating people -- What makes it odder is that they didn't seem be in short supply of people who were willing to make runs.  We saw it last season, and we saw it this season with the firecracker/potential-baby-killer.  These people didn't seem timid, and they had walkie-talkies so were always in contact.  Here's my point: why didn't they just go on "runs" and scrounge what they could instead of resorting to the highly organized, but so off-putting cannibalism?  That large of a building would suggest they were near other buildings, a small town perhaps.  Or they could plant food, a la Farmer Rick.

 

No, the whole cannibalism doesn't ring true.

[Irishmaple]

I think it's possible the cannibalism started as vengeance: driven by rage and post-traumatic stress, the Termites gave an undignified end to those who had captured, tortured and raped them, and then became symbolic - a way of proving to themselves that they were the butchers and not the cattle, a way of bonding the survivors together, of making them different (stronger?  better?) and living up to that Never Again on the wall.  They kept a memorial of all those they had lost, to remind themselves of what happened when they let down their guard.  After that, I think they just normalized it.  The butchering was very efficient and devoid of ceremony, just cut, bleed and move on.  It was numbers and processes, not people. I will never understand how the Termites managed to make this their normality, but they did.  They killed everyone they met so they would never be victimized again and they kept calling people to them so they could continue to be butchers and not cattle.  Those guys were seriously screwed up.  If any of them did survive, I wonder if there's any way back from something like that? 

[Lillith]

Now...what to do, what to do? Carol and Daryl...or  Daryl and Michonne and Carol and Rick? Talk about make-up sex.

 Now Michonne and Rick (and the actors who play them) have an amazing chemistry, but watching last night I did wonder about Carol and Rick as well.  Again I know Andrew Lincoln and Melissa McBride are good friends so I think part of their chemistry shows on screen.  Or Carol could be dead by episode three, but I truly hope they keep her around.

[40Love]

I get your point here but what was the excuse of every last person they convinced to join them after the fact? Survivor or victim I guess.

 

Exactly! I can see one person, maybe two, saying "Hey let's eat these rapist bastards and anybody else who falls into our trap". But, how in the world do you get all the others to go along with it?

 

Like Conan said in "The Talking Dead", I might pretend to be down with cannibalism to stay off the menu... But, first chance I get, I'm sneaking the hell out of Dodge. But, everyone seemed to be okay with this whole "let's eat people" plan. Craazy!!

[Lila82]

Re the Termites - I don't feel sorry for them but I couldn't help but reflect on something I learned years ago on the Discovery Channel about how the human body isn't truly able to tolerate long term canabalism. It causes what we know in another species as mad cow disease. The brain turns to mush. I am now speculating that eating human flesh activates the virus in a way. These people are not yet dead but the hunger begins. There is not enough rape and pillage to make sane adults actively acquire humans and child humans at that, for the sake of consumption. History has examples of people starving to death rather than opting to eat the family dog. We have a STRONG mental override that requires the most extreme of situations, and even then cannabilsim tends not to be continued after the threat of death has been removed. I don't think revenge or survival is what motivated the Termites. I think it was hunger for human flesh, which is indeed how the virus manifests in the zombies.

 

 

Prion diseases like Kuru are transmitted by eating the brain, which I wouldn't think the Terminus crew were doing.  It also mostly manifests similar to Parkinson's disease and doesn't cause huge behavioral changes, although it can lead to mood swings.  I recommend this

movie

 to further explore these effects of cannibalism.(spoiler tagged because I just gave away a major plot point.  You've been warned). 

 

But more to the point: I think the Termites simply got drunk on their own power.  They found a system that worked, kept them alive and functioned with law and order.  Everyone had a role, a purpose, and maintaining those routines kept their society functioning.  The better they got at running things, the more warped they became.  It wasn't enough to live hand to mouth, but plan for the future.  They could dry meat and survive long, hard winters, especially as canned goods expired/spoiled from the heat and the human population decreased.  They were growing crops to supplement their diet.  Psychologically, it might have healed their wounds.  They couldn't be victims again if their entire way of life revolved around them remaining at the top of the food chain.  And then, hubris...they could only survive with this system for so long when it was completely rotten at its core.

[ghoulina]

Exactly! I can see one person, maybe two, saying "Hey let's eat these rapist bastards and anybody else who falls into our trap". But, how in the world do you get all the others to go along with it?

Like Conan said in "The Talking Dead", I might pretend to be down with cannibalism to stay off the menu... But, first chance I get, I'm sneaking the hell out of Dodge. But, everyone seemed to be okay with this whole "let's eat people" plan. Craazy!!

 

This is true. And there has been some spec that maybe not everyone in the community knew about it, but they didn't seem to be trying to hide anything. Maybe everyone in their group was there in the beginning, when the bad guys took over and were raping everyone? Maybe they don't let ANY new people that show up in? Maybe they just kill and eat them all? I have no idea. I didn't want an entire first half devoted to Terminus, but I still have many unanswered questions!

[Rosiejuliemom]

Thanks for the sheath explanation. That does make a lot of sense. This is why I need people to discuss the show with!

 

Has it ever been addressed what happens to the walkers if they can't feed on flesh?  They obviously can't die.  Given the large numbers of human carcasses we saw, I wondered if maybe the Termites were some kind of supplier of meat to somebody who might have captured and held walkers to experiment and try to find a cure.  When Herschel was holding the walkers in the barn, did it ever show them being fed?

 

 

Oh, oh, I know this one! Milton examined the remains of one of Michonne's pets at Woodbury. He said that it was showing signs of slowly starving to death. Or more death. Something about how it would take a long time but that walkers that didn't feed would eventually stop functioning.

 

The barn walkers were given chickens. Patricia was shown breaking a chicken's legs and throwing it into the barn for a meal.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Rosiejuliemom

[ghoulina]

When Herschel was holding the walkers in the barn, did it ever show them being fed?

 

Yes, Patricia fed them a chicken that she had disabled. 

 

I think that when walkers can't eat and there's nothing AROUND to eat, they probably become kind of dormant. But, if they get a whiff of something tasty, but can't get to it, I imagine they become very agitated. 

 

I did ponder the possibility that the Termites weren't eating their victims, but feeding them to walkers. I thought it possible they would take the carcasses far away from their living quarters and dump them for walker meals, to try and prevent the geeks from getting too close. But then why would they be drying them?

[Raachel2008]

I'm late to the party, but:

 

- Carol rocks.

- The Carol and Daryl hug.

- Rick seeing Judith.

- Tyreese is the best.

- Don't-fuck-with-me-or-my-people Rick is my favorite Rick.

 

Here hoping the rest of the season is like this.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Raachel2008

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Few things I loved about the boxcar escape soene

Bob opted for a machete, gave Sasha his gun

Each woman fought their way through the herd, without help.

Rick held up the rear.

Michonne stayed close to Carl.

Abe was the last one over the fence, making sure everyone else made it first.

[callmebetty]

The second hug was what got me. Daryl kind of pushed his head onto her the same way a cat does when they are showing affection. I've read plenty of interviews with Norman Reedus where he talks about his beloved cat, I wonder if he drew inspiration from that.

aww got here to late. I thought the same thing. It's exactly what my cats do to me.

Can't add anything more that hasn't already been said. Excellent episode and can't wait to see more of Morgan.

[Boofish]

Rick and Carol is the closest thing Daryl has to a family since his brother "cracker azz T-Dog" died. I would be interested to know how Jaqui, T-Dog, Dale, Shane, Merle, Lori and Andrea would have fit into the equation had not all met their death. The only person I can somewhat see still being an asset is T-Dog. Some character deaths were hard to take but make sense the more the story unfolds. Still think there was room in the group for T-Dog. His death was too random and meaningless for me. I know he "sacrificed" his life for Carol but he would have died anyway being bitten in the shoulder when they entered the tombs. He had nothing else to lose. They should have saved that bite and made it part of the sacrifice.

 

Also, they should have totally named Judith T-Dog'neisha Dal'Shane Lo'tricia Ja'phia Grimes

[Iguessnot]

 

I get your point here but what was the excuse of every last person they convinced to join them after the fact? Survivor or victim I guess.

 

Now I remember a point I forgot. Remember last season the dying man on the tracks who told Carol and company to head to Terminus, that they were good people? Now that we know the truth, why would he even say that? Was it just a writer's vehicle that was only a lie?

[Boofish]

 

Now I remember a point I forgot. Remember last season the dying man on the tracks who told Carol and company to head to Terminus, that they were good people? Now that we know the truth, why would he even say that? Was it just a writer's vehicle that was only a lie?

RECRUITERS! All the more reason I still defend Rick for ignoring "orange back pack guy" TRUST. NO ONE

[LadyArcadia]

Huh.. speaking of the old crew...

 

Remember when Dale was taken out by one walker in the field? 

 

Now Tyreese can take on several bare-handed?

 

Interesting.

[paigow]

Not to be rude, but as soon as they are all reunited, couldn't Eugene and Tara and Tyreese take a walk with Carl and Judith and set up snares or get water or play I-Spy or something so the other people could, you know, have sex?!?! After you were that close to horrendous death, and escaped and are safe and reunited---well if people don't just want to do the wild thing then, they never will.

Glenn and Maggie, and Abraham and Rosita---those are obvious. Sasha and Bob? 

 

Last season, I thought Rosita was declared as "L - Word" by Abraham.

[MacGuffin]

This is true. And there has been some spec that maybe not everyone in the community knew about it, but they didn't seem to be trying to hide anything. Maybe everyone in their group was there in the beginning, when the bad guys took over and were raping everyone? Maybe they don't let ANY new people that show up in? Maybe they just kill and eat them all? I have no idea. I didn't want an entire first half devoted to Terminus, but I still have many unanswered questions!

 

I know on Talking Dead they talked about how Termites (is that what we are calling them?)

would test the strong that showed up by letting them eat the meat and hang around for a day or two before asking if they wanted to join up... or die. The weak evidently were hearded into boxcars from the start. I suppose by the piles of teddy bears that children were automatically put in the weak camp. I don't recall seeing any children at Terminus.

[Boofish]

Well Yokun Cornelius did have that hammer on his side

[ghoulina]

Last season, I thought Rosita was declared as "L - Word" by Abraham.

 

Noooo. He said something to the effect of knowing that Tara was the "L" word because he noticed how she stared at Rosita.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

@paigow...

Abe told Tara he figured out she is gay, since he saw her checking out Rosita.

[lulee]

Huh.. speaking of the old crew...

 

Remember when Dale was taken out by one walker in the field? 

 

Now Tyreese can take on several bare-handed?

 

Interesting.

I think it was only supposed to be two, maybe 3, and we did have the precedent of Tyrese making his way through the horde with just a hammer during antibiotic-run-to-the-vet-college episode.

[Irishmaple]

And the circumstances are quite different too.  Dale was unarmed and surprised in the dark by a Walker.  Tyreese went outside, prepared to fight because if he didn't Judith would likely die as well.  He was able to find weapons (sticks, etc) in plain sight.  He was both strong and motivated.  That zombie with the branch through its neck was creepily awesome.  Well done to the creators of that.

[kikismom]

Huh.. speaking of the old crew...

 

Remember when Dale was taken out by one walker in the field? 

 

Now Tyreese can take on several bare-handed?

 

Interesting.

I'm not sure I would use Dale Horvath as the yardstick to measure ability to unleash aggression; if Dale had been there he would have said "Gareth is just a kid! He could be an asset! Are we going to sentence him to death for something he hasn't done yet?"

(And the proper response would be no he isn't, no he won't, and yes we will.)

[The Mighty Peanut]

Now I remember a point I forgot. Remember last season the dying man on the tracks who told Carol and company to head to Terminus, that they were good people? Now that we know the truth, why would he even say that? Was it just a writer's vehicle that was only a lie?

 

I kind of hope it's a writer fuck-up and the tracks guy didn't use his last conscious moments on earth to send two kids and an infant to their deaths. That's a cold, cold soul. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Dale wasn't unarmed, his rifle was holstered on his shoulder.

[Statman]

 

That's what I was just coming to ask.  I totally thought that was the remains of the katana and was going to ask if anyone remembered it getting broken last season.

 

 

I rewound just to check and the weapon even had a strap for carrying.  It looked to put together to be something that she made in a box car, bt why would they give her even a broken Katana in that car.  I don't recall the Katana being broken but it didn't look like it was with the stuff in the room.  Carol found Daryl's bow and Rick's watch;  she wasn't even looking specifically for them.  Wouldn't she have looked for he Katana since she was pretty sure Michonne was there?

 

Someone has already mentioned this, but Michonne makes her weapon from her katana sheath.

 

Here is picture of the sheath: 

 

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140509020810/walkingdead/images/b/b8/Michonne-katana-sheath.jpg

[lulee]

At rifle distance, Dale stood a chance, but when it came to hand-to-hand combat, Dale was "unarmed."

[Ohwell]

I don't see all of this as a way to redeem Carol.

I did.  I saw it as a way to redeem Carol to the rest of the group, and not necessarily to the audience

[LilySilver]

And I want to see season 5 Rick go back and lecture season 2 Shane.

I think Rick has finally become everything Shane claimed he'd never be--the kill or be killed, trust no-one, put my own before others leader he wasn't able to be earlier in the ZA.  Shane was absolutely right about what it would take to survive, and Rick's had to learn it over and over.

 

The backstory of the Termites was interesting, and okay, I guess that gives them some motivation for the way they turned out. I guess.  I never got the impression that CDB was starving, even when they had so many at the prison with them.  So why couldn't the Termites grow and hunt for food?   And how many frigging people did they have living there that they were slaughtering 8 "cattle" at a go, and already had some hanging in the, uh, processing area?  That's a lot of meat. Har.  Then, too, they were adding people to their ranks apparently. Who would agree to go along with this batshit craziness??!!  It took me out of the story at times trying to reconcile it. You know, with the reality of the ZA.  Ha!  Much as I hated the Governor's storyline, I thought his motivations were far more human and plausible. And Woodbury WAS a nice place!

 

It blows my mind, still, that Carol's banishment and the fall of the Prison was just a few days ago.  I wish they'd give a little more time to the gang processing what has happened to them so quickly, but obviously that wasn't the point nor the pace of the premier.  Still, to overhear some conversation about where everyone else was (no mention of any of the many many Woodburyians who must have died--ever!) as they walked with Carol or joined Tyrese would have been realistic, I think. (I did love the quick nod to this sort of catching up in the boxcar, and that Beth "is alive" from Daryl to Maggie.)  Too much, maybe, to go there, to talk about it all. Maybe they would've walked in silence.  I did love the reunions, but thought they were rushed. And since everyone cared for Judith since her birth, I would have thought that they would all have rushed to her.

 

Can someone remind me of the genesis of Tyrese's walker-anxiety?  I remember at the prison he didn't want fence duty.  But by the time the prison fell and the whole dealio with Lizzie, seems like he would have worked through it.  His love for little Judith brought out his beast!!  He seems afraid of himself, and I know I'm supposed to be understanding something about what the ZA does to some people, but I'm not quite getting it.

 

I do not buy Eugene at all, or that anyone with him would believe him. I can't see Rosita or Abraham being the kinds of people who would be strung along on so little, and willing not only to risk it all for Eugene's story, but to basically carry his useless, defenseless ass as well.  His little glissade-pas-de-bourree move away from the walker then promptly dispatched by Sasha was ridiculous this late in the ZA. He hasn't learned any self-defense?!  Just not plausible that he, and only he, would hold the key he says he holds and refuse to try to share it with anyone.  I hope they flesh this out. ha.

 

And off they go.  I understand that they have to get far away from Terminus (should have listened to Rick and gone back to finish them off!) but gosh when do these people sleep?

 

Morgan! Squee!

Edited October 13, 2014 by LilySilver

[kj4ever]

I kind of hope it's a writer fuck-up and the tracks guy didn't use his last conscious moments on earth to send two kids and an infant to their deaths. That's a cold, cold soul.

Well they did say it was originally true - that they set up Terminus to help people. Maybe he was there and left before the torture/rapists got there and was heading back.

[LilySilver]

Oh, and I loved the contrast between Tyrese and Martin--with Martin having no one but a bunch of assholes he survives with. Tyrese and Carol and Judith have more than that. The gang, reunited, has more than that--and that makes "survival" a completely different endeavor.

 

What are people like Martin even living for?  I would off myself in his shoes. For WHAT would anyone agree to not only become a cannibal, but to lure innocent people in for the express purpose of killing them. To keep myself fed and alive...for what?

 

Every time there's a break in this show, I have to work myself up to come back to it because it's intense, violent, gory, and sad. I don't do any of that usually in my TV--I like light escapist stuff.   But I love these characters and the depth of the messages we get to explore, so I come back.  And the juxtaposition between the Termites and our crew was exactly the reason I love this show!

[bosawks]

Maybe the explanation of why the termites turned to such full scale cannibalism is as simple as people are yummy.....

Bon appetit Donner Party!

Edited October 13, 2014 by bosawks

[PunkyMouse]

 

do have one nit pick though. When our heroes (and the red shirts) are at the trough and Gareth is being all menacing there was a big burst of gun fire. Who did that and why? Other than that, I thought that was a perfect episode from top to bottom.

 

This was definitely when Carol blew the hole in the propane tank. It took a few rounds before she finally hit it.

 

I loved this whole episode top to bottom! The best part? NO BETH!!!!!!!!!!! I can just imagine her starting to sing while trapped in the train car  and everyone taking a moment from crafting their rudimentary weapons to appreciate this small glimmer of beauty in a dark and horrifying place. Ugh. The thought makes me sicker than the whole cannibal abattoir.

 

Oddly enough, as sniffly as the reunions made me, there was one tiny moment which really just got to me. It was the shot of Michonne and Carol, the two women who lost their children, watching Rick and Carl reunite with little Judith. They both looked genuinely happy if not a tiny bit wistful.

 

Le sigh.

 

ETA: after watching the episode again online I simply could not get "Nemesis" by Shriekback out of my head. If you're too young to remember the 80's just pretend I never said anything.

Edited October 13, 2014 by PunkyMouse

[TexasChic]

 

Now I remember a point I forgot. Remember last season the dying man on the tracks who told Carol and company to head to Terminus, that they were good people? Now that we know the truth, why would he even say that? Was it just a writer's vehicle that was only a lie?

I've always felt he was just repeating what he saw on the signs - that there was a safe place where everyone could get sanctuary. For all he knew, they hadn't seen any signs yet, and since they had kids, he wanted to make sure they knew about it.

[TexasChic]

As for the cannibalism; I hope they come back to that and explain how things evolved after the last events we saw in the train car. Maybe by the time they overcame their captors, they were simply deranged and full of rage, and possibly starving as well. Maybe at first they ate them out of necessity, then their already shattered minds had to find a way to justify it to themselves. So they decided it was part of being one of 'us' versus 'them'. Maybe it became a kind of right of passage to be part of their cult. Later it may have even become a ritual of sorts, to consume the enemy to make themselves stronger. Lesser circumstances have brought about pretty crazy cults in the past, so a Z.A. would really bring out the crazy.

[DearEvette]

I think it was only supposed to be two, maybe 3, and we did have the precedent of Tyrese making his way through the horde with just a hammer during antibiotic-run-to-the-vet-college episode.

 

So now we have two incidents of Tyresse versus a horde of walkers where Tyrese comes out the victor, pretty much unscathed.  So I fanwank that pre-ZA Tyreese was some sort of raging killing machine and post ZA Tyreese is going overboard trying to atone for that shit.  I mean his screaming 'I Wont!' while beating the crap out of that guy raises some red flags.   He even said 'You have no idea the things I done."  I am thinking  there are some things we don't know about our gentle giant.