S06.E04: Oppo Research

[thewhiteowl]

The title of this show has slipped into the irony category for me as Alicia is no longer either of those things. Her scene with Finn was short but he did tell her two important things which she ignored. "Don't be vulnerable" and "Take a taxi".

[Kel Varnsen]

My problem with them knowing about the abortion is how did they know?  As pointed out above, that is confidential information and should not be able to be found out unless Nissa or her parents were talking about it publicly, which I have trouble believing.  I get so angry sometimes because I can't even call the doctor's office to ask a question about my kid's medical issue that I already know about (and for whose treatment I am paying) because it violates HIPPA regulations.  My kids are now over 18, so they each had to sign a form giving the doctor's office permission to talk to me about things.  And even then, depending on who I get when I call, they still won't answer my questions.  So how do total strangers get this kind of information?

Even if you can explain that in TV world a nurse or someone might say yes I saw the governors son in the office with a woman who was getting an abortion, and here is her name (which is a pretty huge 'if'), how do the investigators even figure out that Zack and Nessa went to the clinic in the first place? Did they call around to ever clinic in Chicago and ask if anyone had seen someone who looked like the governors son.

[Janc]

Loved the "Breaking Bad"/"Talking Bad" and "Walking Dead"/"Talking Dead" spoof for Alicia's cop show.  But I noticed another tie-in with Breaking Bad in this episode - just like Walt Jr setting up the "Save Walter White" website for donations for Walt's chemo and how the laundered drug money was inflating the total, the same thing is happening with Lemond Bishop's "Elect Alicia Florrick" website! Has to be intentional!  

 

ETA:  The Kalinda/Alicia non-relationship is really glaringly obvious at this point.  They have not had a scene together in at least two seasons, right?  How can this go on, now that Kalinda followed Diane to F/A?

Edited October 14, 2014 by Janc

[BearCat49]

I would think that a man like Peter would consider paying a prostitute for sex totally different to blackmailing a woman to sleep with him. The former involves a woman who has made a choice to exchange sex for money, the latter involves forcing a woman to do something she really doesn't want to do. 

 

A previous comment indicated that Peter would consider it beneath him to use blackmail to get a woman into bed.  I responded by commenting on his use of prostitutes b/c in both situations, the man is using something to induce a woman to sleep with him.  Why wouldn't powerful, virile Peter consider both situations beneath him?

I never got that impression. I don't think at all that Peter is the kind of man who would use blackmail to get a woman into bed. 1. He wouldn't need to. 2. He would consider it beneath him anyway.

 

Here's the previous comment.  Originally, BTW, I was commenting on the fact that the Kings implied (IIRC) that Peter knew about Kalinda's vulnerability, e.g. her name change, etc. and used the power of his office to induce her into bed.  That was the explanation given for their ONS.

Edited October 14, 2014 by BearCat49

[Texasmom1970]

Did I hear Eli right when they were discussing political strategies with Alicia. Did he say it had been 6 years since Peters scandal that she has stood by him so long?

Six years, WTH are they living together, trying to reconcile, or is it just a front like she talked about last season.

[Kel Varnsen]

Also this has been bugging me for awhile now, but shouldn't people within the show be kissing Alicia's ass, just as a matter of protocol, a lot more than they currently are. I mean she is the first lady of Illinois right but I don't seem to get that from the way people treat her. I mean her friends like Eli or Cary shouldn't treat her any differently, but everyone else seems to forget she is the wife of the Governor. Many just treat her like she is some random lawyer lady, which seems weird to me. 

[romantic idiot]

I think she tends to interact with opposing lawyers, for the most part, who can't show her that deference. 

 

I will say, I am excited for this season. I don't know how they will resolve the things they've set up, but once again, like last year, I'm excited for the next episode and the rest of the season. Having said that, I am leery and have a foot out the door, because boy did last season's resolution suck eggs. 

 

Now please bear with me because I have lots of things I wanted to respond to. 

 

How can Alicia run knowing that Zach and Nissa are going to be cross examined about their teenaged abortion? That is pretty devastating. I totally got Alicia's anger. I don't have kids, but I think I would be just as angry. 

I think Alicia was angry because Zach lied to her. And that's the one thing that she hasn't forgiven. She hasn't forgiven Peter, she hasn't forgiven Kalinda, and she'll forgive Zach because he's her son, but she is very angry. However, I cry foul on Alicia's decisions impacting Zach and Nyssa (and Grace, though that's not been mentioned). I think it's a moot point. Peter already ran for governor, and wants to run for President someday - Eli definitely wants him to. Alicia's not deciding to run for office or not run for office doesn't change that. There's going to be no added scrutiny because of her decision to run, so I don't think she's being a bad mother in this instance. Peter's already sacrificed all their lives, and then he did it again for some tail. 

 

And then, the rest of the episode happened.  So, Alicia is running because she's angry, and as far as I can tell, she's angry at people "ruining" her life:  her mom, her husband, Kalinda, her son (seriously, she cut him off?), her brother, her drug-dealing client, Cary, Wil, Flynn.....her anger to run seems to stem from her anger at those close to her that have made her running harder.  Hardly a noble cause.  She never really answered the question as to why she was running.

 

I can't believe that the King's want us to cheer for the Alicia that was in this episode.  Maybe they have her reject this overture only to have her run as an Independent on her own terms without a party behind her?  Or maybe, this is a morality play, and at the end, we see Peter standing by her side, not in celebration of her win, but standing with her as she is accused of the corruption that brought him low in the beginning. Full circle indeed.

 

They really can't think we should root for this Alicia can they?

This is what I'm finding exciting. Alicia has been slowly getting greyer and greyer and now, this feels like the ultimate question. I think Alicia will, unquestionably, be a better SA than Castro (because seriously, Castro is the idiot who has brought about his own downfall). And I think we got a hint of Alicia's reasons. (1) She believes in the law and (2) there's no way she's taking a beating lying down. From every single race we've seen, I think it's been clear that Alicia will not stand for bullying tactics - so the more Castro tries to scare her off, the more she's going to dig her heels in. And that's not necessarily a bad quality in an SA. Hopefully it will also help her handle Bishop when the time comes. 

 

I love Owen, Alicia really hurt him....boo!

I don't feel a lot of sympathy for Owen at all. Based on what I saw in this episode, Owen is knowingly sleeping with a married man who practices unsafe sex. Hold on. Nope, I checked - not an iota of sympathy. 

 

Did Finn set her up, or was he being used by Castro to unknowingly set her up?

Interesting - I hadn't thought of this. I thought Castro might have had her or Finn followed - but the "take a taxi" line brings his knowledge into question. I'd prefer he didn't know either way actually. One part of her (and our viewing) life needs to be free of drama. 

 

I probably would have been out of the race after the Zack revelation, and absolutely by the staged DUI test.  

As I mentioned, I think the staged DUI will just make Alicia more determined. And Zach and Grace are political kids anyway. Really, Zach should know better by know. And (IMO) ironically, he might have if Alicia hadn't been so insistent on sheltering Zach and Grace to the extent she did and does. 

 

In addition to the ethical problem of having her campaign funded by Bishop (and whatever payoff he will try to extract from her down the line), there's the problem that her advisors think the surge in money indicated grassroots support. I'd say that having a groundswell of voters donating is way different than having an infusion of organized crime dictated cash.

On the other hand, those are probably some guaranteed votes there. 

 

I didn't find Alicia's behavior surprising. I actually like how stark it was. She made a flat out decision without being dragged into it. I don't know why exactly she wants to run but she does. Running is not great for her family but everyone negatively affected is an adult and in the case of Zach, several states away. I can't feel that bad for Veronica getting called out for hitting a stranger's child in a store and Owen for sleeping with a married man.

As for Zach, I think understanding and empathy will come later. If it had just happened she might have felt more of it now but it was over a year ago. Right now she is in full on postal mode. I don't think she actually cut him off. That was part of her rant to Peter not to Zach (Peter who also doesn't seem to care about the abortion hitting the media). She was ice cold at the end but that is Alicia when she's hurt. Earlier in the series she would have cried as she said it but they have evolved her pretty thoroughly into someone whose frequent coldness is more than just a front.

I loved the opening scene. Alicia was so rigid and defensive. It was perfect. I also loved that Eli was walking on egg shells with her. I like Alicia but handling her can quickly become a full time job if you miss a step. Margulies' reactions were fabulous and all the background detail made it even better. I love that the running gag about Darkness at Noon has now become a show that Alicia is pissed she might get spoilers for. I also liked that when Alicia mentioned the one nigh stand, Eli immediately started connecting dots. I always wondered what everyone thought happened there.

I thought Alicia believed Owen already knew about his boyfriend's side job. I thought that was why she called him into the kitchen, so that their mother wouldn't hear about the boyfriend until he was ready to tell her, and why she started with safe sex instead of some kind of subject tip off. Then she was so flat when she mentioned the porn I thought she was just saying she knew, not breaking the news. Obviously she was wrong and it side swiped him but I'm not sure she understood.

I don't know what to make of Peter lately. The disconnect between the Florricks is so absolute right now. If he isn't sleeping with the new woman yet he will be shortly. I just wish I had more of a feel for his feelings about everything with his family right now.

I also can't get a feel for Alicia/Finn. The flirtiness is definitely there and he brings out a lightness in her that is refreshing. This Ep I wonder if that was as much about him being totally separate from her anger and frustration with everyone in her personal life as him. It's like he took Will's old role in her life as someone to flirt with and have fun with. It's just missing the depth.

I think Alicia is running because she wants to. That's what her law answer was about. It's partly to be someone other than the silent, smiling spouse. It's partly because she hates Castro. It's partly outrage over his treatment of Cary, Finn and Will's memory. It's partly the challenge and the fight. Mainly though I think she just wants to and sees her families' screw ups as theirs to take responsibility for. It's cold but I like it.

This pretty much says it all. The only point I'd contest is that I still think Owen know the truth about Phil. He was angry, not surprised or devastated. 

 

I also found it odd how Kalinda pointed Bishop straight at Alicia. I don't have a problem at all with her not protecting Alicia at this point, particularly with Cary involved, but she put Bishop's focus firmly on Alicia and her campaign. With so many options to spread the blame, it seemed like she singled Alicia out for the most self serving of all the possible motives. It surprised me.

I think Kalinda let him know because there's really no harm in that. He was obviously going to keep digging and this was honestly a logical and innocuous reason to dump him, rather than impending plans to betray him, e.g. I think she read his likely reaction well, though she didn't want to say anything in the beginning. And it's not like he wouldn't have set up a PAC later after she had decided to run. 

 

If that's true, then why was Peter apparently paying for sex during that same period?

 

It was during his SA days.  Perhaps Kalinda, to her credit, didn't care to sleep with the boss.  Kalinda does well on her own in that department, IMHO, so would that have been beneath her? 

 

As SA, Peter definitely had power and control, two things that politicians desire and gladly use for their benefit.  Kalinda, OTOH, was extremely vulnerable.

 

BTW, if my memory's correct, they implied it during an episode.  I'm not merely speculating ...

 

I thought they'd implied it as well. 

[apgold]

All of the Alicia stuff notwithstanding, I really enjoyed Veronica's spanking of that brat.  There are too many kids like that who are allowed to run rampant without any consequences or discipline.  The mom's reaction was priceless when they showed her the video of the kid tipping over mannequins and kicking the old lady (which was overkill).  She was probably more pissed that what her little angel did was caught on camera than at what he actually did wrong.  I know too many parents like this, unfortunately.

 

On a superficial note, Eli's wig is now more distracting than Alica's wig.  

 

So is Peter sleeping with the intern's mother, then?

[kia112]

Loved the "Breaking Bad"/"Talking Bad" and "Walking Dead"/"Talking Dead" spoof for Alicia's cop show.

 

 

I couldn't take it because I'd just finished watching Walking Dead and Talking Dead!  I almost choked from laughing so hard.

[l star]

I thought all the oppo research was done by Eli and his team. No one else knows all that stuff; the intention of the meeting was just to get a plan in place or deal with the problem now in case someone does find out. I think that was also where Peter's concern was. He would know anything the rest of the world might find out. He wouldn't necessarily know everything in Eli's files that could then be revealed to Alicia.

It didn't bother me as much that Alicia kept calling it Zach's abortion. While the procedure and final decision were absolutely not his, he was present and seemingly involved in the decision of what to do. If she had decided another way, he would have a major responsibility to handle. Also the secret was his and the lie to his family was his. I don't think Zach's mother calling it Zach's abortion like many mothers say their son is having a baby is meant as an infringement on Nissa's role. It's just a faster way of acknowledging his involvement when dealing with family than 'Zach's ex-girlfriend aborted his baby and he knew and was involved'.

Also this has been bugging me for awhile now, but shouldn't people within the show be kissing Alicia's ass, just as a matter of protocol, a lot more than they currently are. I mean she is the first lady of Illinois right but I don't seem to get that from the way people treat her. I mean her friends like Eli or Cary shouldn't treat her any differently, but everyone else seems to forget she is the wife of the Governor. Many just treat her like she is some random lawyer lady, which seems weird to me.

I've wondered this too. Not so much from other lawyers but judges who have to run for office, everyone who relies on political favors and appointments to keep their jobs, anyone considering a life in politics and most glaringly- the randoms. Where are the 'oh, I recognize you, you're famous' gawkers, the extra attention in the high end bars and restaurants she frequents, guards at the courthouse, etc. We've seen Peter call in his influence before, most notably when called out half the police force to find Grace. In my experience, people with access to power like that get their ass kissed by people just to ensure all the wheels in their own lives keep spinning. We saw a bit of it in the jury duty episode (which also showed that Alicia enjoys the extra bit of notice) and this one when the woman wanted $50 thousand once she realized who Veronica was related to but not really otherwise. This show is so good at world building but I feel like this point has been missed. I mean seriously, she's married to a man who moves with his own entourage and security yet Alicia, our Alicia has never bitched once about having to deal with his security? No way.

Romantic idiot- I agree completely with your point about Peter's campaign. He has run multiple campaigns, damaging secrets be damned. Why should Alicia not do the same? At this point, the abortion is not out there and considering it happened 3 months before election day for a governors' race, I doubt anyone will find it for a SA race. If nothing else, the funding and staff are at a much lower level. Alicia has the advantage of having access to more experienced people but the others shouldn't. I don't share the anger towards Alicia for choosing to run. This is a family that had a national sex scandal AND multiple criminal trials and stepped right back out in the media glare. This should be a cake walk, even if it does all get out.

As for Owen, anyone remember him announcing Peter was homophobic to mess with his campaign? Or talking to a reporter on camera about Alicia getting drunk during the gubernatorial campaign? Now he's knowingly sleeping with a married man and possibly knowingly having unprotected sex with a porn star and expects to be given his privacy. I enjoy Owen a lot but no way.

Edited October 14, 2014 by l star

[jjj]

Several posters have noted that Alicia is "angry".  Sure she is -- she would need a lobotomy not to be angry.  She apparently was in love with and had/has great sexual chemistry with Peter, and he betrayed her big-time and publicly.  She just found out that the person she thought was closest to her, Zach, did not tell her about a major personal event (events, if we include the teen sex, of which I think she was also unaware?).  Her mom is a fruitcake, her MIL is a passive-aggressive bitch, and the one person in whom she can confide, her brother, came as close as possible to tossing a glass of wine in her face (so, into the sink instead) and walking away without a word.  Her partner has a felony charge; a seriously scary mob boss is always looming in the background; there is a political Energizer Bunny manipulating her into denying she is running, or actually running, for office; her new business is teetering; and if she had a dog, it would be run over.  

 

She is quite alone with a big sack o' burdens, and I'd be angry, too! 

[AudienceofOne]

It was during his SA days.  Perhaps Kalinda, to her credit, didn't care to sleep with the boss.  Kalinda does well on her own in that department, IMHO, so would that have been beneath her?

As SA, Peter definitely had power and control, two things that politicians desire and gladly use for their benefit.  Kalinda, OTOH, was extremely vulnerable.

BTW, if my memory's correct, they implied it during an episode.  I'm not merely speculating ...

 

 

Kalinda told Alicia outright she slept with Peter in trade for him helping her get a new identity. Now whether that's prostitution or if he took avantage of her situation to demand sex i.e. blackmail really doesn't matter to me.  She was vulnerable and his payment for helping her was sex. It's another example of the way in which Peter views women. Which is why I outright loathe him.

[heavysnaxx]

 

The title of this show has slipped into the irony category for me as Alicia is no longer either of those things.

 

Ha! Right after Alicia did her little drive-by to Zack, I thought, "Now I get it! The end game is that 'The Good Wife' becomes an ironic title and all my sympathy will be with poor, poor Peter, driven to the arms of Belle Watling."

 

For some reason, I was also annoyed by the dreamy reminiscence about being a housewife in Oak Park -- those days when she played tennis, went out to lunch, started the cocktail hour at 5. Don't get me wrong -- if you're so fortunate as to enjoy such a lifestyle in real life, go for it. But it in terms of this character, it made me look at her as if she were a bit...thin, in the ambition/gumption department. And it was well done in terms of writing because it coincided with a verbal exchange highlighting how little the same character really cares about her profession. I kind of assumed up to this point that Alicia gave a shit about justice, etc., even if she had to compromise. Now I'm not so sure she's seeing things as shades of gray as much as shades of passive.

 

[meatball77]

My problem with them knowing about the abortion is how did they know?  As pointed out above, that is confidential information and should not be able to be found out unless Nissa or her parents were talking about it publicly, which I have trouble believing.  I get so angry sometimes because I can't even call the doctor's office to ask a question about my kid's medical issue that I already know about (and for whose treatment I am paying) because it violates HIPPA regulations.  My kids are now over 18, so they each had to sign a form giving the doctor's office permission to talk to me about things.  And even then, depending on who I get when I call, they still won't answer my questions.  So how do total strangers get this kind of information?

 

There are people who do nothing but stalk abortion clinics and take pictures of the people that arrive and leave and their license plates.  However, most abortion clinics also offer family planning services so I'm not sure how that couldn't be twisted into STD testing or Birth Control.

 

They lingered on her asking if anyone else was running.  Hopefully a third candidate comes in and Alicia can drop out of the race without having to lose to Castro.

Edited October 14, 2014 by meatball77

[photo fox]

Would record of the abortion be in Nissa's regular medical files? I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that a political opponent would dig into her background, considering she was Zach's long-term girlfriend. And HIPPA or no HIPPA, enough money and someone will talk.

[beeble]

I don't really like the peter-Zach comparisons.  Peter lied to Alicia about sleeping with other women. He was selfish and adulterous.  She has every right to be furious and despise him.  Zach, on the other hand, was supporting his girlfriend who was getting an abortion. If he had been ditching school to go on a wild boys' weekend in Vegas, then Alicia would be right to "cut him off without a cent." The truth is that he wanted to avoid her self-righteousness. She's not a nice person and not very approachable.  Alicia claimed she liked clarity and rules, and is not interested in helping people.  Zach didn't need any of the Alicia-clarity, just some sympathy. Did he really have an obligation to tell her? He told his dad. It's not his fault that his parents are divorced. He was more than likely 18, and morally, he didn't need to bring more people into his girlfriend's decision. 

 

And with all of the lying that was going on in this episode, nobody can say that they hold honesty high in esteem. What a bunch of lying liars who lie.

[CleoCaesar]

Ha! Right after Alicia did her little drive-by to Zack, I thought, "Now I get it! The end game is that 'The Good Wife' becomes an ironic title and all my sympathy will be with poor, poor Peter, driven to the arms of Belle Watling."

 

Heh. It's interesting how perspectives differ - I thought the show's title was meant to be ironic from the pilot. Everything we (as a society/culture) see as a "good wife" (in the 1950s sense) are things Alicia was saying goodbye to: domesticity, a solid marriage, a stay-at-home mother, no career, no outside love interests, no real sense of self or independence. The show was basically saying "THERE'S your 'good wife'" and showing her forging her own path/career/life/identity outside her marriage. 

[KaveDweller]

My main objection is that Alicia kept referring to it as "Zach's" abortion. It was actually Nisa's - her decision, her choice, regardless of any talk Alicia might hypothetically have been able to have with Zach about it.

That bothered me too, I kept expecting someone to comment back to her about that.

I think what bothered Alicia was that Zach made up some story about going to visit colleges in Boston the day Nissa had the abortion.  That he went out of his way to manipulate her or something.  And honestly, I don't get why Zach would have done that.  If she had the abortion in Chicago wouldn't he just need to be gone for a few hours?

Probably because the shows treats the SA races way, way too reverently. If I asked a random group of people who their SA is, I bet very few people could answer.

This is why I can see Alicia winning.  No one knows about SA, but if someone hears that the governors wife is running, they might think, "hey, good for her" and vote for her.

 

I didn't have a problem with Alicia's actions in the episode, but I don't think it's in character for her to want to run.  And after that exchange with Bishop, I don't see how she wouldn't run as far as she could from a campaign he's funding.  And away from him as a client.  He is terrifying and the firm was dumb to ever represent him.  I don't care if they claim they only represent his "legitimate businesses"

[Kel Varnsen]

I've wondered this too. Not so much from other lawyers but judges who have to run for office, everyone who relies on political favors and appointments to keep their jobs, anyone considering a life in politics and most glaringly- the randoms. Where are the 'oh, I recognize you, you're famous' gawkers, the extra attention in the high end bars and restaurants she frequents, guards at the courthouse, etc. We've seen Peter call in his influence before, most notably when called out half the police force to find Grace. In my experience, people with access to power like that get their ass kissed by people just to ensure all the wheels in their own lives keep spinning. We saw a bit of it in the jury duty episode (which also showed that Alicia enjoys the extra bit of notice) and this one when the woman wanted $50 thousand once she realized who Veronica was related to but not really otherwise. This show is so good at world building but I feel like this point has been missed. I mean seriously, she's married to a man who moves with his own entourage and security yet Alicia, our Alicia has never bitched once about having to deal with his security? No way.

 

 

In general it seems weird, I mean have we ever seen anyone refer to her as Madam First Lady or anything like that? Specifically in this episode we had an experienced political operative be kind of a jerk to her, a lady try to extort her and her family and a cop think it would be smart to do a favour for the SA by pissing off the governor. In what world does that make any sense? I mean even if those people know nothing about Alicia would any of them want to piss off Peter?

[l star]

I've always been surprised they haven't included any kind of fashion attention. That seems like exactly this show for Alicia to be screwed over by a picture on the What Alicia Wore Tumblr showing her with the wrong client. Or looking pissed off. Or just a really bad picture. Or, horrors! A picture that shows too much! I actually think that kind of aside to being famous would be very in tune with this show.

I don't really like the peter-Zach comparisons. Peter lied to Alicia about sleeping with other women. He was selfish and adulterous. She has every right to be furious and despise him. Zach, on the other hand, was supporting his girlfriend who was getting an abortion. If he had been ditching school to go on a wild boys' weekend in Vegas, then Alicia would be right to "cut him off without a cent." The truth is that he wanted to avoid her self-righteousness. She's not a nice person and not very approachable. Alicia claimed she liked clarity and rules, and is not interested in helping people. Zach didn't need any of the Alicia-clarity, just some sympathy. Did he really have an obligation to tell her? He told his dad. It's not his fault that his parents are divorced. He was more than likely 18, and morally, he didn't need to bring more people into his girlfriend's decision.

Zach didn't teol Peter. He lied to them both. Peter was just less concerned when he found out and called Zach to tip him off that Alicia knew and was going postal.

I don't think the comparisons are between the two men. The comparisons are about Alicia's reaction to being lied to by her family. That is a hot button for her that almost immediately tips her into crazy territory.

I think the show's depiction of the SA's race has been strongly skewed by the characters we are seeing it through. Peter had been through a sec scandal and convicted of corruption while SA when he ran. Alicia is the governor's wife. People may not care about the race, but they will about her being in the race. Especially given her husband's past of corruption and using the office as a launch pad for higher office.

I thought the DUI stop showed Castro's awareness for that fact. If he wants to beat her, he has to do it early. Ideally by keeping her from running. Once things get going she will have a huge advantage in money, contacts, name recognition, influence, staff availability, and party support. He is going to have to fight dirty and hit hard to keep his place in the race or she should drown him.

Is Alicia really afraid of Bishop? I know she recognizes that he is scary and dangerous but I'm not sure she really grasps it like Kalinda does. That is actually a nice portrayal of her privilege. She has no background to really make her feel that fear. She's more afraid of ChumHum and dirty political tricks.

[cheyz]

Would record of the abortion be in Nissa's regular medical files? I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that a political opponent would dig into her background, considering she was Zach's long-term girlfriend. And HIPPA or no HIPPA, enough money and someone will talk.

This was also during the time they were under NSA surveillance, Nissa's family is one of the reasons they got the warrant in the first place.

[CleoCaesar]

I thought the DUI stop showed Castro's awareness for that fact. If he wants to beat her, he has to do it early. Ideally by keeping her from running.

And instead he all but forced her into running by goading her about Will. Not sure what the writers' logic was there.

[caracas1914]

Alicia's brother Owen was different, with his pointed observations of Alicia vis a vis  her status as Peter's political good wife and her legal career.  He could afford to throw  witty quips about her life with a detached amusement.  Wasn't so easy once his own  life was in the cross hairs of  Alicia's  political ambition.   You have to feel for the guy, as he got the rug pulled from under him and now it's not so funny or across the room ironic for him.

 

I can certainly believe Alicia's anger at Zach and part of that is wounded and deflated ego.  She had fooled herself into thinking she was a savvy, straight shooting mom who told it like it is to her kids and she would be "rewarded" with a reciprocal honesty,   Zach had zen mastered the common  teenage art of   looking sincerely in her eyes and lying to her face ( I do not smoke pot) which shattered her illusion of super hip mom dom.   It wasn't that Zach lied just like  his father Peter, but Alicia  had the illusion that her relationship with her son was special, but when push came to shove, he hid things from her like any other disfunctional normal middle class American family.  The funny thing is I could see Alicia going along with an abortion and deciding it was the best thing, so it wasn't the result but her wounded vanity that took a hit. 

Edited October 15, 2014 by caracas1914

[Kel Varnsen]

Is Alicia really afraid of Bishop? I know she recognizes that he is scary and dangerous but I'm not sure she really grasps it like Kalinda does. That is actually a nice portrayal of her privilege. She has no background to really make her feel that fear. She's more afraid of ChumHum and dirty political tricks.

She probably doesn't grasp it because I am not sure that Bishop is any kind of a threat to her. I think part of the reason that Kalinda spilled so easily that Alicia was running for SA was because she knows that Alicia would basically be one person that would be untouchable to Bishop. I mean Bishop is not an idiot, so I doubt he is going threaten the family of the governor with bodily harm.

[Texasmom1970]

I realized overnight my main problem with this episode was too much Alicia. I realise the show is "The Good Wife" but not having more interactions with the rest of the cast is criminal.

More Diane, Cary and even David Lee would be nice. What is happening at the once Lockhart, Gardner, what is the fall out like? I even miss the friendship moments between Alicia and Kahlinda.

[OptimisticCynic]

Bishop is the best written and acted character on this show. His presence oozes tension, fear, unpredictability and deliberate choice of very few words. He scares me. I love him like the bad man he is.

I hope the actor gets some award recognition this season.

[lunastartron]

I don't think it's improbable that Eli would have been able to unearth sources related to Nissa's abortion. She could have confided in friends, her mother or father could have lamented the situation to someone in whom they erroneously felt confidence. There are a variety of possibilities that don't necessarily involve a HIPPA violation. Vetters discovered Bristol Palin's pregnancy - also a personal medical condition - before her mother was selected as the VP nominee, and the team tasked with researching her only had about two weeks to complete the project because she was a last-minute substitution.

 

Personally, I don't abstractly think Alicia should abandon any plans to run because of her son's mistakes but I DO find it repulsive that she is acting like the most aggrieved party in the dynamic simply because it poses a minimal chance that a goal on which she decided literally several days ago might be complicated. This is problematic to me, as well, because her decision to pursue a campaign was presented as an impulsive reaction. I don't think Peter's prior vocational decisions automatically legitimize hers. She's never expressed nor evidently harbored a desire to serve the public (and still doesn't now) or to chase political power in its own right, but because the DA behaved maliciously toward her and dishonored the memory of the dead boyfriend with whom she wasn't on the best terms, it's totally copacetic to perpetuate/magnify the political tension on her children just because her husband did it first?

 

The moments when she turned Zach's apology into a "well, have you ever smoked pot? See? Ha!" gotcha and brattily declared, "have fun at college!" were literally like watching a teenager for me.

 

Additionally, would Alicia genuinely have counseled Zach and Nissa to proceed with the pregnancy, and would it be necessary for her to say that she did in order to get elected? Alicia is both an atheist and pretty rank and file liberal; the prevailing precept among the contemporary Democratic party is that it's the woman's choice and hers alone, and also that parental notification laws are not desirable/justifiable. Considering how solidly blue any urban center - and particularly Chicago- is, I don't see why she would feel compelled to spin the yarn about opposing Nissa's decision unless she does indeed just want to retain her persona of Saint Alicia.

 

I don't think any of the principal characters on the show would show much deference to Alicia just because of her marriage. Cary and Diane are her colleagues/partners; opposing attorneys like Patti Nyholm aren't cowed by any competition. I do find it hard to believe that Diane went out of her way to specifically antagonize Alicia, though. Maybe judges might occasionally behave more solicitously? The security details for gubernatorial spouses aren't invariably all that extensive in my experience, though she might have a guard with her at public events.

[Dowel Jones]

 

 

In addition to the ethical problem of having her campaign funded by Bishop...

 

Although the PAC is named "Elect Alicia Florrick", it's not necessarily directly funding her campaign.  It's an independent source of money that should, at least, not have any contact with the actual election committee.  She would do well to disavow that particular PAC as soon as possible, and make sure none of its money filters into her campaign.  She could also score points by pointing out the effect of anonymous money on campaigns, implying the Castro campaign is even dirtier.

 

Alicia is the governor's wife.

 

One would think that Eli and, as such, Peter, would be well aware of the staged DUI stop, and Peter would then have Castro on the carpet explaining what he was doing.  Somewhat different circumstances, but several years ago in Sacramento, two CHP officers were allegedly targeting state lawmakers who left the bars and headed down I-80.  The legislators complained about the unfair treatment, and probably made noises about how the legislature actually determines the CHP budget.  The two officers suddenly found themselves transferred to other, less problematic postings.

[TV Diva Queen]

I worked for an Illinois Governor who's wife was a practicing attorney.  No first lady garbage with her.  She was an working mom, who was a kick ass attorney.  The last governor I worked for had a First Lady who was truly a First Lady and she enjoyed all the spoils that came with it.  So, in summary, it depends on the First Lady and how she wants to be treated/seen.  

[MrWhyt]

 

Additionally, would Alicia genuinely have counseled Zach and Nissa to proceed with the pregnancy, and would it be necessary for her to say that she did in order to get elected? Alicia is both an atheist and pretty rank and file liberal; the prevailing precept among the contemporary Democratic party is that it's the woman's choice and hers alone, and also that parental notification laws are not desirable/justifiable. Considering how solidly blue any urban center - and particularly Chicago- is, I don't see why she would feel compelled to spin the yarn about opposing Nissa's decision unless she does indeed just want to retain her persona of Saint Alicia.

Who say's it's a yarn? She can be pro-choice and still be opposed to her child having/being party to an abortion. She can be fully supportive of Nyssa's right to choose and still want her to choose to go ahead with the pregnancy.

[lunastartron]

Who say's it's a yarn? She can be pro-choice and still be opposed to her child having/being party to an abortion. She can be fully supportive of Nyssa's right to choose and still want her to choose to go ahead with the pregnancy.

I use the word "yarn" because her fabrication about advising Zach and Nissa is just that. It didn't happen. I've never really seen anything on the program to indicate that Alicia would be opposed to abortion, but my post was about my befuddlement that she would need to unnecessarily embellish for the sake of pr/a political campaign given the electoral context in which she's running. She could reasonably just say, "This was Nissa's choice and she made it, as is her right."

[romantic idiot]

Re: Alicia's yarn - I agree, it is a yarn, but I think it's her just being cynical and pragmatic. (I also don't see how it matters to a State's Attorney but I guess they have to opine on a lot of irrelevant things). I think she lashed out at Zach, while doing damage control first, but she is going to try to build bridges again later. I also don't find it any more or less hypocritical than pretending to be 'conflicted' about her religion. Fortunately or unfortunately, optics has become more important in politics than actual merit, so I don't fault Alicia for being pragmatic and looking to win. 

 

 

And instead he all but forced her into running by goading her about Will. Not sure what the writers' logic was there.

I think they were trying to show that Castro is stupid. And Often evil will doth evil mar, so to speak. Also giving a genuine believable reason for Alicia to run. There is no way on earth she's going to give in to a bully. 

 

I use the word "yarn" because her fabrication about advising Zach and Nissa is just that. It didn't happen. I've never really seen anything on the program to indicate that Alicia would be opposed to abortion, but my post was about my befuddlement that she would need to unnecessarily embellish for the sake of pr/a political campaign given the electoral context in which she's running. She could reasonably just say, "This was Nissa's choice and she made it, as is her right."

 

She didn't supervise her children enough to prevent premarital sex, as a good wife, she should be focused on being a 'good mother' and thus being pro life and I'm betting a lot of the support for the good wife does come from conservatives who admire her sticking by her husband. That good wife, of course, must be a good Christian - what else would give her such wonderful values? - say I ironically. 

[AudienceofOne]

I'm sorry but what parent in the universe is able to "supervise her children enough to prevent premarital sex"? What a ridiculous thing to say. This exposes the silly notions of "good parenting" that the character is being subjected to...

 

And I realise this was your point and that you were being ironic and I fell for Poe's Law. So needless to say I agree.

[CaptainCranky]

This has always been a stellar show with remotely believable plot stories of the judicial system, lawsuits etc but the story line that a sitting governor is going to endorse his wife for the State AG is not realistic or at least in my humble opinion.

[Kel Varnsen]

 One would think that Eli and, as such, Peter, would be well aware of the staged DUI stop, and Peter would then have Castro on the carpet explaining what he was doing.  Somewhat different circumstances, but several years ago in Sacramento, two CHP officers were allegedly targeting state lawmakers who left the bars and headed down I-80.  The legislators complained about the unfair treatment, and probably made noises about how the legislature actually determines the CHP budget.  The two officers suddenly found themselves transferred to other, less problematic postings.

Within the show there was an episode, I think a couple of seasons ago where a cop in another county pulled over Zack and hassled him about potential drugs in the car. Peter was only the SA then but he dealt with it and made the SA from the other county fix the problem and made the cop personally apologize to Zack. Peter is now governor, with a lot more power, so what cop in his right mind would think pulling over his wife and going out of his way to annoy/embarrass her would be a good idea.

[caracas1914]

Peter is now governor, with a lot more power, so what cop in his right mind would think pulling over his wife and going out of his way to annoy/embarrass her would be a good idea.

 

Can I add, and in Chicago of all places.

[merylinkid]

 

o what cop in his right mind would think pulling over his wife and going out of his way to annoy/embarrass her would be a good idea.

 

Just to make the SA happy?   Yeah, the Governor outranks the SA even in Good Wifelandia.

[dcalley]

Well, Alicia talking to Zach was perhaps the most deplorable I've ever found her, and if I were him I would not lie for her (not that I'd be freely telling the truth; I'd just refuse to talk about it). I am not interested in this race.

[Kel Varnsen]

I am not really interested in the campaign story either. We have already seen political race works on this show enough times. Would rather see Alicia deal with the legal/corporate world. Maybe her affair with Will leaks soon and her campaign loses all steam. Still not sure how Eli's investigation didn't find out about that.

[AudienceofOne]

Still not sure how Eli's investigation didn't find out about that.

 

 

But Eli already knows about that. This was about what the opposition would throw at her - which was the photo that was easily refuted.

 

And not to put too fine a point upon it, since this is about perception rather than reality anyway, but she didn't have an affair with Will. She and Peter were separated at the time.

[oceanblue]

But they were pretending to be actively working on their marriage and skirting the issue of whether they were living together.  So the issue is that either voters will consider her a cheater, or if she tells the truth, a liar.

[Kel Varnsen]

But Eli already knows about that. This was about what the opposition would throw at her - which was the photo that was easily refuted.

And not to put too fine a point upon it, since this is about perception rather than reality anyway, but she didn't have an affair with Will. She and Peter were separated at the time.

i just don't believe that is all they could find out about her and Will. Especially considering they were able to find out about Zack and the abortion, which should have been much harder to find information on. Plus like Oceanblue said, her whole Good Wife persona that people love is that she stood by her husband after he cheated on her.  That kind of falls apart if she cheated on him too.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Kel Varnsen

[izabella]

Kalinda told Alicia outright she slept with Peter in trade for him helping her get a new identity. Now whether that's prostitution or if he took avantage of her situation to demand sex i.e. blackmail really doesn't matter to me.  She was vulnerable and his payment for helping her was sex. It's another example of the way in which Peter views women. Which is why I outright loathe him.

 

We've seen Kalinda use her sexuality to get people to give her what she wants.  I'm not sure that she didn't suggest the sexual favors for identity deal herself.  I don't know...it's all vague in my head now.

 

Alicia is just the worst at communicating with her kids.  Was she always like that when she was raising them in the suburbs?  I thought they were close back then, so was it just the teenage years that threw her for a loop?  

[BearCat49]

Would record of the abortion be in Nissa's regular medical files? I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that a political opponent would dig into her background, considering she was Zach's long-term girlfriend. And HIPPA or no HIPPA, enough money and someone will talk.

 

It doesn't surprise me that Eli knew about it.  He was already concerned about the optics of Zach, Nissa relationship.  Perhaps someone at the clinic tipped him off that Zach was there.  Or someone else recognized Zach in an unfamiliar place and they put a tail on him that day.  Does the family ever have security?  That'd be another source for Eli.  Eli probably has multiple means to monitor the Florricks, all for their own good, right?  (lol)

 

WRT Alicia and her recognition as First Lady of Illinois, didn't Finn call her that at least once?  Alicia reminds me of Maria Shriver who, IMHO, didn't care about her position (informal, that is) as First Lady of California.  Ms. Shriver refused to relocate her family to Northern California (Arnold commuted, weekly) and rarely, IIRC, appeared at events.  She openly complained about the loss of her position at NBC News.  If Alicia showed more interest, then others would, too, IMHO.

[calico]

How can Alicia run knowing that Zach and Nissa are going to be cross examined about their teenaged abortion

 

Because, as the person who knows her best stated, she's a selfish bitch.

 

also think that her response was echoes nicely in Owen's dumping out his wine and stomping out of the apartment without a word; I think slack & burn must be part of how those two were raised.

 

When the SC character was first introduced she really bugged with her 'aren't I such a fun contrast to my stick up her ass daughter with my careless disregard for propriety' attitude since I felt like the audience was supposed to cheer for this modern day Auntie Mame.   I saw her as a nightmare from the moment she opened her mouth (and not just cause SC's face looks like a sausage casing stuffed with marbles) and was never quite sure what the writer's point of view was with this character.  But if she feels like its not only justifiable but smirkingly cute to assault a child, then I can only  hope she is there to offer an explanation for Alicia's lack of principles.  It's easy to see how her, and her brother's, moral compass was calibrated.

[heavysnaxx]

 

Alicia reminds me of Maria Shriver who, IMHO, didn't care about her position (informal, that is) as First Lady of California.  Ms. Shriver refused to relocate her family to Northern California (Arnold commuted, weekly) and rarely, IIRC, appeared at events.  She openly complained about the loss of her position at NBC News.  If Alicia showed more interest, then others would, too, IMHO.

 

I've been reminded of Maria Shriver, too, but for the opposite reason. When Shriver was CA's First Lady, I had to connect briefly with her staff on a women's economic equality event for the legal and policy community. Our event rated involvement with her *deputy* chief of staff only, and negotiating her appearance -- versus simply lending her name and title -- was really hard, she was in such demand. In subsequent years, she was heading up at least one big summit on women's issues, too. Obviously, Shriver and Alicia (a fictional character, of course!) differ in that Shriver's status as a public figure was never dependent on her marriage but I've noticed how utterly unstaffed Alicia as a First Lady is, by comparison.

[BearCat49]

Sounds like the same issue to me, heavysnaxx.  My understanding was that Ms. Shriver's staff was located in Sacramento (north of San Francisco for anyone unfamiliar with CA) and that scheduling was difficult b/c she refused to relocate from Los Angeles and didn't work with them effectively.  Yes, electronic communication's terrific but sometimes there's no substitute for actually being on site.

 

IMHO that's basic supply and demand.  I remember the women's conference.  Thought that was her big annual event.  If she wasn't appearing at many events, then she may have been in greater demand.  BTW, I have no idea how many appearances she completed, in comparison to other CA first ladies.  As mentioned above, that was always the "impression" I had. 

 

It'd be the same for our fictional character, Alicia.  If/when Saint Alicia deems to appear, perhaps the people of IL are thrilled that she selected their event from the many demands upon her time.  Alicia must have a staff (way down the hall or a couple of floors away from Eli's prized slot near the Governor) but tptb haven't needed them to create conflict and tell her story.

 

If some of the leads leave the GW reservation, perhaps the Kings will introduce us to some beleaguered Chief of Staff.  Perhaps Eli needs a counterpart to give us a little West Wing v. East Wing conflict or intrigue, lol. 

 

BTW, heard somewhere that Kalinda's contract ends after this season and she's been offered a series.  Hopefully they'll send her off with a bang - oops, wrote that w/o thinking.  But not similar to Will's bang, hahahaha ..... 

 

ETA:  I see the Kalinda/Archie news is mentioned on the media thread.  Thinking about Will's departure, someone wondered above why Alicia called Kalinda after Will's death, IIRC.  Wasn't Kalinda in the courtroom w/Will and Alicia was calling around, trying to find out what happened?  And relating it back to herself, naturally! 

 

WRT the Alicia/Kalinda falling out after Alicia learned about the ONS, I never understood why Alicia focused so much anger on Kalinda b/c Kalinda didn't know Alicia at the time.  Yes, Kalinda slept with her husband but IMHO Peter s/b held accountable as the person who betrayed Alicia, his wife.  That's always how it is, right?  The wife is enraged at the other woman instead of placing blame where it belongs, i.e. with her husband - that is, if anyone deserves blame for the situation.

Edited October 18, 2014 by BearCat49

[merylinkid]

 

Perhaps Eli needs a counterpart to give us a little West Wing v. East Wing conflict

 

That would be so cool.    IF they found someone at his level instead of giving him an Amy Gardner.   Alicia needs her own Donna Moss.   

[Jlina]

The thing that bothered me the most with regards to Alicia and Kalinda was her staunch refusal to listen - and her actually saying, "you don't get to explain this."  Gah, what a beyotch.  I agree that the blame shew throws around does not stick on Peter where it belongs and since she had basically railroaded Kalinda into being her friend, thought Kalinda deserved a friend pass to get to explain. Then if she wanted, she could kick her to the curb.

 

But really, she just kicked her own son to the curb so what in the world was I thinking? 

 

In real life, I think Jullianna Margulies had some issue with how popular Kalinda was getting, from things I read at the time, etc.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

My kids are now over 18, so they each had to sign a form giving the doctor's office permission to talk to me about things.  And even then, depending on who I get when I call, they still won't answer my questions.  So how do total strangers get this kind of information?

Heh, if you have someone like Kalinda working for you, then you can get any kind of information! I agree that Eli already had Zach and Nyssa on his radar so it's possible he was already keeping tabs on them, but I think that he actually didn't know about Nyssa's abortion until he got the oppositional research. Abortion is a huge issue so I think if he had already known, he would have told Peter about it.