S02.E03: Root Of All Evil

[Ankai]

I quite liked this episode. I was slightly spoiled about the Hawley character (and slightly spoiled about how he relates to future episodes), but I am willing to see how it goes. The homosexuality exchange was a bit too on the nose (and I had figured that men holding hands would probably not have been considered a sign for being gay back then anyways), but it was a way to insert yet another historical figure into Crane's past, if only as a brief mention. Is someone keeping a tab on who in Revolutionary he has met or mentioned and who has yet to show up?

 

Speaking of historical figure, I was slightly bothered by the notion of Benedict Arnold being under a spell. While the show did point out that the coin brought out the "darkness" in people, Ichabod seemed to have absolutely no idea what that darkness in Benedict could have been. A one-sentence mention of him getting passed over for promotion and not getting credit for some of his achievements in a war that he sunk a lot of his money into could have provided a bit of context. If there was a sentence, I must have missed it.

 

The stuff about ID may have been a sly commentary about those in this country without documentation, but it also got me thinking...Did Crane have anything to say about post-Independence stuff like Shay's Rebellion or the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798? Yes, I know that he "died" during the war, but it might be interesting to hear his take on the immediate consequences as well as what is happening 230 years later.

[Fable]

I don't think Reyes is evil...at first I did, but I really think she is on the right side.  I don't think she will be a repeat of Irving, whom I believe had no idea and then changed his mind.  I think she fully knows what she is into and is playing it!  I expect her to be on the side of good in the end! 

[HalcyonDays]

I don't think Reyes is evil...at first I did, but I really think she is on the right side.  I don't think she will be a repeat of Irving, whom I believe had no idea and then changed his mind.  I think she fully knows what she is into and is playing it!  I expect her to be on the side of good in the end! 

 

I still think she's Abbie's Guardian Angel. She quickly shot and killed the woman who was pointing a gun at Abbie. She (most likely) thinks Jenny is a bad influence, and Crane for that matter, since she "fired' him from his consulting duties. Yet she didn't discipline Abbie for breaking into her files (quite the no no and security breach) and she slipped Abbie the classified file about Mama Mills. Guardian Angel - calling it now.

[maryle]

I really enjoyed this episode. The confession scene was great ! Just keeping it up show and I will be happy with this season .

[Leia1979]

Hawley reminded me of Matthew McConaughey in the movie "Sahara." I couldn't shake that image the entire episode.

 

I don't like how quickly Reyes shot the bank teller. I really want Irving back ASAP.

 

The flaming rose from the explosion scene was a rather artistic touch. 

 

I can't really put my finger on exactly why, but I liked the concept of this episode better than the execution. I think I liked the idea of stopping the coin of evil without Henry's manipulation. Can't Moloch have more than one active henchman at a time? Headless is practically retired.

[fantique]

Really liked this episode and am glad we are getting back into the swing of things.

I think there is still a pacing issue. I like the franticness of last season. It's funny because I still felt that they figured the cause of the shooting too quickly abut it still felt slower than last season. Does anyone know if they changed the narrative from their original plans? Because I remember someone mentioning the writers "fighting" to get the Witnesses back together earlier than planned. Maybe that's why I still feel there is some unease somewhere in the narrative. Because while I adore watching Abbie and Crane together, I was kind of disappointed to not explore her time in purgatory in that creepy dollhouse a bit more. I also think they could still have had interactions of Team Witness via whatever communication systems exist between Purgatory and here. That's all but I wager that was the beginning of the writing for the season and once they realised they wanted them back together sooner they adjusted the already written story a bit and then started creating the new narrative so hopefully the shift will disappear soon.

Katrina seemed smarter, more active story-wise wrt Henry and I think she bothers me when she is doing her breathy voice, it makes her sound weak and flighty.

I liked the Henry/Ichabod interaction. John Noble was showing so much mirth at his father's foolish attempts to reconcile the lost son with War. His expression seemed to say "Ha, I have been waiting for his attempt at my redemption". Tom's face as expressive as ever, you can see the guilt/disappointment for his son mixing with the hatred for War. 

Also liked Hawley and he is quite cheeky, I can see him getting along with Abbie and Jenny while playfully annoying Ichabod. As long as they don't go for the whole sister swapping creep factor I can see him with Abbie, he would be a lighter influence. Her relationship with her family is still where I hope the bigger emotional focus will be though. I loved everyone in this episode but Nicole (again!) gets special notice for me. I feel like every week she is giving more and more. Her face is just perfect to see exactly what she is projecting outward but also the underlying thoughts and it's a beautifully layered performance. She is definitely not a showy actress but she's the type that allows you to appreciate the scene.

Edited October 8, 2014 by fantique

[vadare]

Hello!  Yet another TWOP refugee finding a new cyber-home here.  To my fellow refugees, nice to see you again.  To the veterans here, thanks for having us!

 

Here are things I loved loved loved about this episode:

 

1.  The gay men conversation.  I had to hit pause and LOL for a few minutes about that one.  (I don't know if it was really that funny...perhaps Mr. Merlot helped make it so.  And of course, it doesn't hurt that I'm in Virginia, which just got gay marriage passed, so it's been all up in the news around here.)

 

Sidebar/Re:  Ichabod figuring stuff out:  Does anyone else watch a scene where Ichabod is befuddled about modern life and get a flashback to Constable Frasier from Due South?

 

2.  The interaction between the sisters...liking that.  A lot.  However, I'm still not 100% sure I can trust Jenny.  Just sayin'.

 

3.  I agree with everyone else that I'm not certain where the new sheriff's loyalties lie, but I don't mind her too much.  Yet.  Like the idea that she might be Abby's Guardian Angel.

 

4.  Like The Privateer (Ichabod's term for him).  Hope he sticks around (I haven't been spoiled yet, so don't tell me).  But again, don't know if I can 100% trust him.  Or maybe he's a guardian angel?  Stranger things have happened.

 

5.  I've never been pro-Katrina, but this crazy plan of hers (messing with Abraham's and Henry's heads [especially insisting on calling Henry "Jeremy"]) might just work.

 

6.  Loved Ichabod ripping apart the picture on the Sam Adams bottle.  I wondered when that beer was going to make its appearance.

 

Okay...now that that's out of the way, I have a dilemma.  Is anyone else getting a serious case of Anvil Drops every time either Abby or Ichabod stresses the need for the two of them to trust each other?

 

Oh...here's another thing that I keep wondering if/when it's going to pop up.  I live right across the river from Colonial Williamsburg...when the hell are they going to go there?  I'd like to see the look on Ichabod's face when/if he sees it.

 

(Oh...shhhhh...one last thing...I have it on very good authority [someone who works at the aforementioned Colonial Williamsburg] that, along with the women's and children's clothing they make on the premesis and sell at the stores there, TPTB have all but decided to start making and selling men's clothes as well.  I'm wondering if the popularity of this show and the fine figure Mr. Mison cuts in his costumes has anything to do with that.)

[Snookums]

Reyes- I don't think your dog just happened to 'not make it home'. I think that was deliberate so he wouldn't have to spend anymore time with you.

 

 

I loved it when Reyes started in on that speech and Jenny's body posture was "O RLY? I DO NOT CARE." 

 

I liked this one and it felt much more "real" Sleepy Hollow, although I do wonder what their guardian soldier with a demon skull head is doing with himself. Not a single mention by any character on either side about him. You'd think Abraham at least would be all "He's got my head! It's MY HEAD!" He's clearly got a hard on for his personal property, enough to keep Katrina around and buy her a new dress more suited to her Quaker beliefs, if not to cook actual dinner for her (love the alfresco plate--who knew the Headless Horseman was a foodie?)

 

While many fault Katrina for being the worst spy ever, I say why bring your A game when your targets apparently NEVER GO OUTSIDE or to any other secure locale to discuss Plans Of Evil, even after you've caught your captive (whom you know, because she declared it on several occasions, to be working against you) listening in on said convos? I truly can't fault Katrina for that one, and at least she's trying the ol' "are you sure you can trust him?" game on them. Especially Abraham, who apparently didn't need to lose his head to be a brainless, easily led nitwit. 

 

Poor ol' Benedict. Although according to many sources the guy was a classic narcissist who worked for the greater glory of Benedict Arnold. Whoever stroked his ego the most had his loyalty, and he took all slights, real or imagined, personally. So I'm guessing the coin didn't have to work too hard on him.

 

I did like the conceit of a cursed coin that doesn't turn you so much as highlight all the shit you insist you're okay with and point out that you aren't, you never were, and by the way you're so not down with the plan that you're going to rob banks and blow up your dad. Although the results of the coin's manipulations are such that I don't see how much of an "army" it's going to build--the curse only lasts as long as the coin is in your physical possession, plus the results of the mayhem usually ends with the cursee dead or in prison. Kind of a pyrrhic victory.

[fantique]

Also did anyone notice that the guy who blew up the flower store is being represented by Henry? Do you think that's how he is recruiting people? Forcing them to commit a crime and then get them indebted to him by freeing them? That would be brilliant.

Edited October 8, 2014 by fantique

[Indi]

They make her say embarrassing things like: "a grown woman, a witch and a redhead" to imply some fiery headstrong personality and even agency.

That was such an eyeroll moment for me. I'm glad she is aware it would be foolish to trust Katrina though. Not because she knows anything about her and her shadiness, but because she understands human nature. The problem comes when she doesn't apply that reasoning with Ichy. He's not going to start putting the welfare of others above his or his shady family now.

 

You've captured all of my thoughts except I don't find the actor who portrays Hawley attractive, but then, I tend not to find blondes attractive.

 

Neither do I in general, but he's a welcome change from Ichy, who I've never found particularly attractive. Nick has both an amazing body and a good enough face. Sadly they got rid of the only two really gorgeous men this show ever had: Andy and Luke.

 

John Noble makes such a good villain! I'm sad his character is being tainted by the possibility of redemption through love. I'm not at all interested in that kind of tired trope and I hope he remains an unrepentant villain and the formidable enemy War is supposed to be. Jeremy is utterly boring, manipulative Henry/War gives John Noble more and better to work with.

[Iboatedhere]

I still can't get over how cute Crane was with the Hi Guy while he was working on the puzzle. The look of amused bewilderment on his face might be my favorite moment of the show.

[topanga]

 

Loved the Mills sisters, Jenny getting royally pissed (and rightfully so) over finding out Reyes put their mother into Tarrytown. It didn't end well, but I expected the decision made sense at the time. Their arguments are so realistic, exactly how you would expect them. Lyndie Greenwood is amazing in the role.

 

Liked the little "standoff" between Ichabod and Henry. You can just see the pure joy Henry gets out of manipulating the masses, and actually, for the first time, I enjoyed it. Once he became "evil", Henry has been a bit cartoonish in his evil moustache twirling glee. Tonight, it was more understated sinister, and was very welcome and very convincing. And may I say, dammit, Mison and Noble play off each other so well, it's ridiculous. Both utterly fantastic actors.

 

And the confession scene- oh Ichabod, poor baby, you speak the truth...

 

Oh, and must mention this - Ichabod obviously highly respects Miss Jenny. When she entered the Archives, he ensured he greeted her, when she stormed out after her fight with Abbie, he made sure to acknowledge her. Huge! He still tried to side, or at least comfort Abbie, but he likes and respects Jenny, as he should. Love that....cause you know, important for a future sister-in-law.....

 

Even the Katrina scenes were tolerable this week. And Abbie obviously has no love for Mrs Crane (don't blame her). She suspects the shadiness, and is so dead on. I love that she is challenging Crane on his wife, and Crane has no response to it. Love this to death. Abbie Mills --> the voice of reason...

 

And the new guy - Hawley - okay, I like him. Alot. Crane and Hawley interacting together - pure gold. Those two play off each other so well, it's brilliant. I want more scenes.

Yes, to all of this.

 

--When Crane yelled out, "And my wife is living with another man," why was my first thought, "Hey, two can play that game." (Although I do think adultery is wrong, wrong, wrong).  

 

--I agree that Katrina seemed bolder? stronger? less breathy? this week. When she said her lines to Abraham, she was actually saying them, not reciting a Shakespearean love sonnet.

 

--and yes, subtle Henry is scary.

Edited October 8, 2014 by topanga

[Julia]

--When Crane yelled out, "And my wife is living with another man," why was my first thought, "Hey, two can play that game." (Although I do think adultery is wrong, wrong, wrong).  

 

Thing is, the only person in this situation who's been unfaithful is Katrina. An unmarried woman receiving expensive jewelry (like Katrina's necklace) from a man back then meant that she was going to get married, and she accepted a very expensive necklace knowing that she didn't want to marry Abraham. Then she made good and sure she had a solid hookup with Ichabod before she broke up with her fiancé. Sure Ichabod's having trust issues. She's already betrayed a man she supposedly loved.

 

Also, hey, awesome practicing austerity in dress, Katrina. Way to Quaker.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Julia

[topanga]

I like how in-tuned Ichabod and Abbie usually are to each other’s moods.

 

When Ichabod stops focusing on himself for a moment, he’s able to read Abbie’s thoughts and feelings without her saying anything: her lack of trust in Katrina, her complicated feelings about her sister, and even her occasional lack of trust in him (e.g. when he kept reassuring her that he was coming back to rescue her from Purgatory; and last season, her wariness when he wanted to—and eventually did--use Washington’s map to rescue Katrina from Purgatory).

 

And Abbie always seems to be able to read Crane. She’s the one who calmly pulls him away when he gets started on one of his rants. She understood that his hostility about modern-day Thanksgiving was really sadness. And she even knows how to take subtle jabs at Crane’s sensibilities: e.g. when she said “Is that it? Did you say it right?” after he tried to raise the Kindred, and when she said “I can see why that would be a problem for you” when he went on a tirade about Ben Franklin always having to be the smartest man in the room.

 

Part of that stems from the talent of the actors and their great chemistry together. Nicole Beharie is excellent at displaying a whole world of emotions with one glance or a subtle twitch of her mouth. Tom Mison’s facial expressions are also quite telling. But what’s even more amazing is the way the two characters interact: they look at each other and seem to have entire conversations before either one of them utters a word. I know we went on about this ad nauseum last season. And yes, it’s those long stares that have thrown me (reluctantly) aboard the Ichabbie ship. But I think it’s more than sexual chemistry. The bond between Crane and Abbie is about them recognizing their role as Witnesses and the need for them to stick together and trust each other completely in order to defeat Moloch.

[HalcyonDays]

An unmarried woman receiving expensive jewelry (like Katrina's necklace) from a man back then meant that she was going to get married, and she accepted a very expensive necklace knowing that she didn't want to marry Abraham. Then she made good and sure she had a solid hookup with Ichabod before she broke up with her fiancé. <snip> Also, hey, awesome practicing austerity in dress, Katrina. Way to Quaker.

 

This is a tough one, and I'm actually going to defend Katrina. Abraham gave her the necklace at the little party thing. You could see on her face she wasn't happy, but propriety and appearances must be kept up. They are in a room full of people. She really couldn't turn him down there - it would be the height of embarassment for a nobleman such as Abraham. She gave it back later when she dumped him. And do we really know Katrina and Ichabod hooked up before? That's never been mentioned. They were friends, that's it. Except this season is going to expand on that relationship, so maybe they did. I'm going to bet not, only because of Ichabod being so (usually) honourable. I would guess some fooling around happened in some shadowy corridor.

 

I have the same impression of Quakers that many do. They are supposed to be humble and reserved and not about displays of ostentatious wealth, but upon a little research, this is not true. William Penn was the richest Quarker in the colonies and there were other Quakers that worked to make lots of money and showed it off. I think our perception of that is wrong. On top of that, Abraham is not a Quaker, but a nobleman. He would want to outfit his future bride in exquisite finery. What other choice did Katrina have? That witchy (but cool looking) 200 year old dress. Not everyone can be a stubborn Ichabod!!

 

While many fault Katrina for being the worst spy ever, I say why bring your A game when your targets apparently NEVER GO OUTSIDE or to any other secure locale to discuss Plans Of Evil, even after you've caught your captive...

Snookums, this is a great point. Maybe she is a better spy. It doesn't help that Henry and Abraham are having loud conversations right outside the room where she is. Did you not see those wide gaps within the wooden slat of the walls? There is no sound-proofing there. Voices will carry, espesically deep bartones like Henry/Jeremy.

 

I like how in-tuned Ichabod and Abbie usually are to each other’s moods.

 

This. All of this. From day one it's been like that, which really is amazing. I wonder if it is the Witness bond. I do think the show is doing this deliberately, just like they showed right away in the show, how open and honest these two were with each other, though they barely knew each other (and Abbie is quite guarded). Reinforces the bond. And of course the only person that kills that bond --> Katrina. *sigh* I really hope all of this is deliberate, to the point that Ichabod finally realizes how Katrina weakens him and the Witnesses and changes his behaviour. I do think he will. Character growth.

 

The season, the trust issue is the main theme. What in the lives of Abbie and Ichabod tend to damage the trust between the Witnesses. This season, Ichabod repeats the word "trust" a lot. Last season, it was "consequences." So the whole season is the back and forth of "Can I trust you".

[TheHappinessHotel]

Hawley was a nice addition. I haven't read any spoiler so I am hoping he comes back. I see Abbie with someone like him.

I much prefer Crane and Abbie to remain friends.

Better yet, skip the romances! The show is so amazing without it.

[topanga]

 

Hawley was a nice addition. I haven't read any spoiler so I am hoping he comes back. I see Abbie with someone like him.

Abbie did seem awfully familiar with Hawley when she grabbed him at the end of the show and walked him over to the table. Or maybe that was just the police officer in her doing its thing. And I apologize for the fangirlish-ness of this next comment, but I'd like to see Crane and Hawley spar a bit over Abbie's attention. Much like Crane and John Cho argued a little in the tunnel about needing to protect Abbie from harm.

[DearEvette]

I like the idea of Reyes being an Angel.  But not necessarily Abbie's guardian Angel.  But as an Archangel who after all were actual soldiers.

 

I think it would be cool if Reyes was there as a third party with a whole other agenda outside of the Witnesses.  I mean, we have Moloch & his Demons trying to hasten the end of days take over the world.  And we have Ab & Ich trying to stop it.  But  -- and somebody correct me here -- weren't the Archangels involved somehow and they too were harbingers of the end of days, only not for Satan but for God?  And I don't think the witnesses were actually supposed to stop the Apocalypse, but that is what Ab & Ich have decided to do.

 

So instead of Abbie & Ich simply trying to stop the Apocalypse on just one front -- preventing the Horsemen, they now have to try to prevent it on two fronts as well.  Meanwhile, Reyes is there and all  "Witnesses are just supposed to, you know witness.  Sit down and stop messing things up now I have my own orders."  LOL.

[BestestAuntEver]

Hawley- Hot. Thank you, Sleepy Hollow casting for giving me two tall, hot guys to watch this week.

 

 

This.  Like myself, Nicole is petite & height impaired. Seeing her walking in between Crane & Hawley in the woods magnified how tiny she is. I loved it because Abbie is still allowed to kick ass & be a bad ass regardless of her size. I laughed when she hip checked Hawley into the seat at the bar at the end of the episode.

 

Abbie did seem awfully familiar with Hawley when she grabbed him at the end of the show and walked him over to the table. Or maybe that was just the police officer in her doing its thing. And I apologize for the fangirlish-ness of this next comment, but I'd like to see Crane and Hawley spar a bit over Abbie's attention. Much like Crane and John Cho argued a little in the tunnel about needing to protect Abbie from harm.

 

 

 

Since we don't have John Cho, I'm down. I swore Hawley was checking Abbie out when she walked into the bar earlier in the episode. I love Abbie/Crane but if the show is determined to keep Katia/Katrina around & live....free Abbie. I'm of the shit or get off the pot mentality. I don't like being trolled. Hawley was tall, smart & good looking. If he can generate decent chemistry with Nicole, I'm down 

[Snookums]

Thing is, the only person in this situation who's been unfaithful is Katrina. An unmarried woman receiving expensive jewelry (like Katrina's necklace) from a man back then meant that she was going to get married, and she accepted a very expensive necklace knowing that she didn't want to marry Abraham. Then she made good and sure she had a solid hookup with Ichabod before she broke up with her fiancé. Sure Ichabod's having trust issues. She's already betrayed a man she supposedly loved.

 

 

To be fair, Katrina was in an arranged marriage situation, which was very common at that time. She seemingly didn't have much more choice in the matter than an indentured servant--even if she broke off the engagement, she would, odds are, have no family or community support and no way to support herself. Those aren't small considerations. She never loved Abraham, although she didn't hate him at the time, nor did she want to hurt him. She might have gone through with it had she and Ichabod not fallen in love; and a woman making her own choice in whom to marry in those social circles wasn't easy or widely accepted. 

 

What got me about the situation was how, the very next day, Abe and Itchy are sent on that mission from Washington and Abraham, understandably humiliated and bewildered, is raving on and on about how Katrina could do this, blah blah blah, clearly just having no mental grasp on the idea of a woman not wanting to marry into wealth and security and social ease. Ichabod is all I feel ya buddy but maybe shut up since we're in enemy territory, and then literally seconds later breaks it to him that he and Kat are together and they want his blessing. Such horrible, horrible timing there, and it put me somewhat on the Horseman's side for a bit. 

 

QUOTE

While many fault Katrina for being the worst spy ever, I say why bring your A game when your targets apparently NEVER GO OUTSIDE or to any other secure locale to discuss Plans Of Evil, even after you've caught your captive...

fantique, this is a great point.

 

 

 

Heh, this was actually me.

[Danny Franks]

So this was more of a return to the 'monster of the week' premise that I said I was missing. It's refreshing to put the Apocalypse on the backburner, for a while, and let Ichabod and Abbie deal with a lower stakes mystery. Sure, Henry was still behind the coins, but he was a minor aspect of the episode.

 

I love how the writers manage to tie so many things into these crazy stories. Judas Iscariot and his thirty pieces of silver, and Benedict Arnold being turned against the revolutionary cause. I imagine their glee when coming up with these ideas, and really wish I could be in the writers room when someone realises that there's another historical figure or even that they can tie to their universe.

 

Abbie is still this show's MVP, in my view. She's just a magnetic presence, and draws the eye whenever she's on the screen. Love her when she's happy, feel for her when she's sad, and usually agree with her when she's angry. I like that she's being honest with Ichabod about Katrina's shadiness, and that Ichabod pretty much accepts that she has valid reasons to not trust her.

 

Not really interested in the new guy, to be honest. He came across like a poor man's Dwight from Haven, and I don't think this show really has room for a cool, rebellious dude who is painted in shades of grey. Cast list is full of people I want to see (except Katrina), I don't want their presence reduced. I also imagine his existence will lead to romance with one of the Mills sisters, and I really don't care for that, not when they make such a mess of the one romance that exists on the show.

 

I also find myself more annoyed by the new captain and her smugness. There's also something about the way she talks that makes her feel really artificial, too. That affected slurring of words is something I found irritating. Get Irving back in the captain's seat, please.

[fantique]

 

fantique, this is a great point. Maybe she is a better spy. It doesn't help that Henry and Abraham are having loud conversations right outside the room where she is. Did you not see those wide gaps within the wooden slat of the walls? There is no sound-proofing there. Voices will carry, espesically deep bartones like Henry/Jeremy.

 

As much as I like the argument, that wasn't me. Snookums was the one. Edit: just saw Snookums corrected it. Sorry for the repetition :p 

Edited October 8, 2014 by fantique

[HalcyonDays]

My apologies, Snookums (and fantique). Too much reading too fast and copying and pasting too fast, not enough paying attention. My post edited to give credit for your excellent comment, where credit is due!

[Happytobehere]

I still think she's Abbie's Guardian Angel. She quickly shot and killed the woman who was pointing a gun at Abbie. She (most likely) thinks Jenny is a bad influence, and Crane for that matter, since she "fired' him from his consulting duties. Yet she didn't discipline Abbie for breaking into her files (quite the no no and security breach) and she slipped Abbie the classified file about Mama Mills. Guardian Angel - calling it now.

I am with you on good especially where Abby is concerned. I posted this in last week's thread after I did a rewatch of the show. She seemed to like and admire Abby while having no damns to give for those who could be seen as bad influences on her.

[Julia]

This is a tough one, and I'm actually going to defend Katrina. Abraham gave her the necklace at the little party thing. You could see on her face she wasn't happy, but propriety and appearances must be kept up. They are in a room full of people. She really couldn't turn him down there - it would be the height of embarassment for a nobleman such as Abraham. She gave it back later when she dumped him. And do we really know Katrina and Ichabod hooked up before? That's never been mentioned. They were friends, that's it. Except this season is going to expand on that relationship, so maybe they did. I'm going to bet not, only because of Ichabod being so (usually) honourable. I would guess some fooling around happened in some shadowy corridor.

Then she should have waited until the end of the party, given the necklace back and told Abraham she wasn't going to marry him before she told Ichabod she was available. It may have been in her best interest financially to do it the way she did, but it wasn't ethical. I didn't mean the modern sense of hook up, though. I meant that she arranged for a new fiance before she ended her engagement.

[HalcyonDays]

Then she should have waited until the end of the party, given the necklace back and told Abraham she wasn't going to marry him before she told Ichabod she was available. It may have been in her best interest financially to do it the way she did, but it wasn't ethical. I didn't mean the modern sense of hook up, though. I meant that she arranged for a new fiance before she ended her engagement.

 

Okay, I see what you mean. She did wait till the end of the party, because she told Ichabod that she was "ending the engagement tonight". But when she told Ichabod she loved him, I didn't see it as her immediately getting a new fiance, just that she was interested in a future relationship with him.

 

Which then raises the question - when did she spend enough time to fall in love with Ichabod? How much time did they spend together before the Abraham dumping. Or will it be sold as love at first sight? It's why my original theory/thought from season one was that she was manipulating Ichabod's heartstrings to deliberate get him onto the path to Witness. By marrying him, she could keep him on a "short leash", so he would be "coaxed" into doing the things that got him to where he is now. Now I'm not so sure, but we'll see.

[Ankai]

Poor ol' Benedict. Although according to many sources the guy was a classic narcissist who worked for the greater glory of Benedict Arnold. Whoever stroked his ego the most had his loyalty, and he took all slights, real or imagined, personally. So I'm guessing the coin didn't have to work too hard on him.

Well, yeah, I suppose that I should have mentioned his ego in my last post.

 

Anyways, one thing that makes me slightly interested in Hawley as an addition to the cast, if not as a character on his own, is his attitude. Many of the characters crack jokes or even relax on a few occasions, but it is rare that they seem to be genuinely having fun. Except maybe Henry, but that seems to be combined with a sadistic streak and fear of the boss. Hawley may not necessarily be privy to how heavy things are, but he seems to treat this as a possible adventure as opposed to a nearly impossible task.

[bros402]

OMG, I never put it together that Stannis and Jefferson were played by the same actor.  We would also need Laura Linney as Abigail because Abigail would be down with the liberated modern woman and could certainly handle firearms.

I never realized that either wow.

[OakGoblinFly]

I knew that Hawley was going to get a fake ID for Crane somehow, just didn't expect it to be as a passport.  

 

I'm surprised that Miss Jenny wasn't able to / or thought to get Crane and ID before this.

[ABay]

The only Adams actor I'm interested in seeing is William Daniels, who has played both John and Sam. And John Quincy. Frankly, I'm only surprised he didn't also play Abigail.

 

Last night was the first opportunity to watch this episode and I really enjoyed it. It's Hawley, right? Jenny said "Holly", I thought, so when both Abbie and Ichabod said "Hawley" I wasn't sure if it was regional accents at play or if I misheard the first time. Anyway...he can come back. I'd be fine with that.

 

Re: ID. They never followed up on the call to Oxford from last season, did they? Morales called and it was confirmed (by who, we don't know) that Crane was on staff there.

Edited October 9, 2014 by ABay

[HalcyonDays]

Re: ID. They never followed up on the call to Oxford from last season, did they? Morales called and it was confirmed (by who, we don't know) that Crane was on staff there.

 

It was confirmed by the show runners in an interview after the end of last season.

Capt Irving was the one to give Crane his Oxford alibi.

 

Also, the DVD of Sleepy Hollow has a deleted scene that confirms the status of Morales:

He's alive and discovers the priest's body.

 

What we don't know is if they are going to finalize those story lines or drop them all together. I'll spoiler just in case they do continue with it.

[topanga]

 

Last night was the first opportunity to watch this episode and I really enjoyed it. It's Hawley, right? Jenny said "Holly",

Those words sound different to you? Hmmm. They sound exactly the same to my ears. Maybe it's a regional thing. I'm originally from Texas and have maintained some southern pronunciations through the years.  Lyndie Greenwood is Canadian, Nicole Beharie is from South Carolina, and Tom Mison is British, of course.

 

Any thoughts, linguistic experts?

[johntfs]

I did like the conceit of a cursed coin that doesn't turn you so much as highlight all the shit you insist you're okay with and point out that you aren't, you never were, and by the way you're so not down with the plan that you're going to rob banks and blow up your dad. Although the results of the coin's manipulations are such that I don't see how much of an "army" it's going to build--the curse only lasts as long as the coin is in your physical possession, plus the results of the mayhem usually ends with the cursee dead or in prison. Kind of a pyrrhic victory.

Not to Moloch.  Every soul twisted and corrupted is one more for his bunch and one less for the Witnesses.

[bros402]

I thought Hawley might've been Hauley :P

 

I had no idea how it might've been spelled until I came on here.

[Fosca]

I would say "holly" has an "ah" sound for the first vowel sound, and "Hawley" has an "aw" sound (like it's spelled).  There are indeed some places in the country that can't really tell the difference between those two sounds; I know in Montana they're both pronouned as "aw".  I do suspect that the different origins of the actors would play a role in how they're said.

[lucindabelle]

Very different to these nj ears. Off is hawker, holly is car. The wild connections and the ancient book explaining everything I just happen to have, or expert, etc, just make me love this show.

[sinkwriter]

 

New guy from Harper's Island is hot. He can stay.

 

What's funny to me is that I've never seen Harper's Island, but I knew him from his voice, in a split second. He made a memorable guest appearance on Castle several years ago, and I didn't recognize him in Sleepy Hollow because back on Castle he had no facial hair and was more young and skinny. Amazing what longer hair, a beard and some muscles can do. Definitely looking good, sir...

 

Loved all the humor in this week's episode. The rants about ID, the laugh about Sam Adams versus Paul Revere on the beer bottle, the "confession" to the priest, the showdown in the hallway between father and son that brought the line (paraphrasing) "Are we going to go down to the fishing hole?"... all of it was really funny to me. I almost spit out my tea when Crane said he watched the finale of Glee. Heeeee.

 

Nice sister stuff too. I liked the twist -- I was fully expecting Jenny to go after Abbie; it was a nice change of pace for her to go after the new sheriff instead.

Edited October 11, 2014 by sinkwriter

[sinkwriter]

 

When did Abbie and Crane get so unstealthy? They were totally discussing Top Secret stuff right in front of the new guy Hawley all night! Near the end of the episode, Crane told Abbie they still didn't know if they could trust Hawley so clearly they knew he was an unknown factor but they kept discussing things in front of him without any attempt at hiding what they were talking about.

 

This! The more they talked so openly right in front of him, the more I found myself shouting at the screen, What are you doing?? He can HEAR you! 

 

Either they're getting sloppy, or they want to get themselves committed to Tarrytown so they can hang out with Irving. *GRIN*

[frenchtoast]

It didn't bother me that Abbie and Crane were talking so loudly in front of Hawley because I figured if Hawley had been working with Jenny on stuff, he had an understanding of the "supernatural" qualities of items. After all he knew about the stained glass containing it. And I got the feeling that Crane and Abby had the same understanding. He didn't learn that they were Witnesses, but they were dealing with weird stuff. And he would be fine hearing some things and just rolling with it.

[theatremouse]

Yet she didn't discipline Abbie for breaking into her files (quite the no no and security breach)

I'm going to admit up front this show has not completely held my attention lately, so if I just missed something, forgive me. But I didn't think she was actually "breaking in" on that one? I thought she used her own valid credentials to look up the new bosslady's files, and she had permission to do so based on her position (in a very general sense), but that, at the same time, bosslady could tell who had accessed what, as part of the same internal system. IE cops can look up stuff and it's fine that they do so but it's also logged that they did. So even though she may not have had a good reason to be checking up on her boss's history, it wasn't a breach? And the boss was just calling her out on it in a "I know you looked me up" kind of way?

[millennium]

I was bored.   I switched it off at the 15 minute mark.   I think John Noble is part of the problem.   When I see him, my mind goes right to Walter Bishop from Fringe.  Except he's not that character.   And the character he plays now is an unsympathetic blowhard.  I switched off during a John Noble scene. 

[phoenics]

Okay, I see what you mean. She did wait till the end of the party, because she told Ichabod that she was "ending the engagement tonight". But when she told Ichabod she loved him, I didn't see it as her immediately getting a new fiance, just that she was interested in a future relationship with him.

In our current day and time, I think this would be true - but back then, a betrothal was tantamount to marriage. Sure - she didn't want to marry him, but she did basically secure herself a new fiance. Back then, the discussion she had with Ichabod would certainly be considered adultery since she was already betrothed at the time. And her declaring her love for Ichabod was definitely unethical.

In our time - today - it wouldn't be seen as quite as bad - but back then, Katrina was definitely shady for that whole exchange... plus... when did she "fall" for Crane? They had a total of 2 scenes together - for the express purpose of driving the story for Crane and showing how he defected. It definitely wasn't enough to sell them as having an "EPIC LOVE".

Which then raises the question - when did she spend enough time to fall in love with Ichabod? How much time did they spend together before the Abraham dumping. Or will it be sold as love at first sight? It's why my original theory/thought from season one was that she was manipulating Ichabod's heartstrings to deliberate get him onto the path to Witness. By marrying him, she could keep him on a "short leash", so he would be "coaxed" into doing the things that got him to where he is now. Now I'm not so sure, but we'll see.

I don't know if she was trying to do anything shady there - although she's been shady about pretty much everything - that's what happens when you're nothing more than a plot device and not a real 3D character.

BUT I have NEVER bought into this great and EPIC LOVE of Ichatrina. I just haven't. There were basically 2 scenes (basic ones at that) showing them together before she fell into the EPIC LOVE - and I felt nothing. Plus, I rewatched S1 and when you contrast his first hug/kiss with Katrina in Purgatory with his truly epic hug with Abbie in Purgatory - there is simply no contest. He didn't even rush in to hug/kiss Katrina when he and Abbie came to get her out. And that searing look he gave Abbie while he and Katrina were reciting the incantation to open the door out of Purgatory? Don't even get me started on the "remember our bond" hug.

If the writers are trying to sell Ichatrina as an epic love story - they are doing a sucky job of it. When the supposedly platonic Ichabbie dynamic makes Ichatrina pale in comparision simply by the two characters Ichabod and Abbie being in the same room with one another - you've got a huge problem. Or not, if you're smart and play to THAT instead of some failed EPIC LOVE story that never caught hold.

I heard they chem-tested Nicole/Tom extensively - Tom wouldn't have even gotten the part had he not had massive chemistry with Nicole. For some reason I don't think they chem-tested Katia. Why? Because they didn't even plan to keep her alive in the Pilot!

And now we're seeing the results of that. The writers should have stuck with the original plan to kill the character in the pilot. Sleepy Hollow would be the better show for it.

[lucindabelle]

I do like the wife in huge sense tht it protects too much loooooooooove stuff from happening. But it almost would be better if she weren't there at all just an image of her now and then, so alive in his heart and out there "somewhere." Chemistry wouldn't be an issue then.