S04.E02: Trylon And Perisphere

[Tara Ariano]

The second new episode of the season; not clear yet what happens in which half. Hi!

[Sarah D. Bunting]

What the title refers to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trylon_and_Perisphere

[Constantinople]

I see that Carrie is still the same self-absorbed selfish asshole who's outraged whenever people don't make her the focus of their lives or whenever they call her on her bullshit, or both.

 

If I were Carrie's sister, I'd threaten to put Frannie up for adoption, and then I'd do it.

 

However, I don't want yet another season, or significant blocks of episodes, torpedoed by Brody spawn, so I'm OK with Carrie manipulating her way to becoming the new station chief in Islamabad.

[Lila82]

Initial Reactions:

 

1).  Quinn, to Carrie: "It's not about you."  Her dumbfounded expression deserves its own Emmy.  Truer words have never been spoken, and yet...Carrie literally cannot process what they mean.  Never change.

 

2). That baby is a female, miniature version of Damian Lewis.  Emmy casting all around.

 

3). This is what season three should been.  Liberated of all things Brody, but mostly Brody himself, the show can breathe again.  I'm looking forward to exploring the complexities of patriotism through a new narrative.

 

4).  For once, just enough Quinn.

 

ETA:

 

Suraj Sharma is a terrific addition.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Lila82

[Artsda]

Wow, great start to the return of Homeland. 

 

Carrie doesn't care to be a parent  (not to mention almost drowns the child on purpose) and drops the baby off on her sister who has kids/house/job/husband and the father of hers that begged her to keep the baby also is absent. The baby should have been put up for adoption, but holy wow that baby looks like Brody so much. Amazing job casting a child that looked like Damian Lewis. You see Brody in that child. 

 

Nice job of the show to talk around Brody, but not have the scenes about him actually be about Brody. Driving up to the house was a good nod to the show but also not really talk Brody. I assume Jessica has moved by now, since Carrie's hanging outside her house? I choose to think Jessica, Mike and the son are off in a better family life together never having to deal with Brody drama again.  

 

Carrie being far from the baby is the best thing base on the bath tub scene, but the baby deserves parents that want her. 

 

Quinn's "It's not about you." Deserved a standing ovation, about time someone tell her that. Love his spiral downward and to see where he's going.

 

CIA director committing treason, great choice over Saul.

[Brn2bwild]

What pisses me off about the baby situation was that Carrie was pretty clear in last season's finale that she didn't want to keep the baby or be a mother.  Her father and sister were like: "OMG, it's totally worth it!  We'll totally help you and even raise the baby if you don't want it!"  Now fast forward, and Carrie has done what they wanted, have the baby, and now they (the sister at least) is resentful that they have to take care of it and Carrie isn't instantly maternal.

 

Prediction: the show's biggest controversy won't be that Carrie and her people bombed a wedding party.  It will be over her parenting skills (and whether lack of parenting skills makes her a bad person).

Edited October 6, 2014 by Brn2bwild

[Espy]

I thought the same Brn2bwild. Carrie was leaning towards adoption and her father and sister talked her out of it. Carrie knew she wouldn't be a good mother, was quite clear that she didn't want to raise the baby, and her father and sister offered to step in and convinced her to keep the baby. So I think it's a bit rich of the sister to lecture Carrie about responsibility. 

 

Otherwise, I really enjoyed these episodes. Perfect amount of Quinn, Lockhart is still being an arse (even though I think he is often right, his manner is so pompous, condescending, and supercilious that I love to hate him). Show is back on track, in my view.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Not only did Carrie know that she wouldn't be a good mother, but she also knew that being a single parent with her job is not a good idea. But more than either of those things, she can't bear to look at her child and see Brody staring back at her because she feels so much guilt. When you put all of those things together, it's no wonder that she keeps leaving the country to avoid being near her daughter.

 

While I agree with her sister that if you bring a life into this world, you are responsible for that life, I would like to add that if you peer pressure someone into keeping a kid they don't want instead of giving it up for adoption by promising to help take care of said kid, then you don't have much of a leg to stand on when the mother takes every opportunity to avoid her kid.

 

Poor Quinn. Even though Carrie joked about using his PTSD as an excuse to get him out of jail, he is really stressed. On the other hand, those douchebags deserved to get punched in the face so I would like to pretend that scene was just about a small amount of street justice. I'm glad he had the presence of mind to say no to Carrie after Sandy's funeral though. He knows going back would just make things worse for him right now.

 

Again I say poor Aayan. He is getting ambushed by reporters at school and attacked in his room in the middle of the night thanks to his asshat roommate.

Edited October 6, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Cramps]

What was the medicine Aayan was hiding?

Carrie with the baby in the bathtub was predictable but still painful to view.

More Quinn and his his building manager!

[FurryFury]

I liked "The New Homeland", I think - more episode 1 (god that scene in the car with Carrie, Quinn, the embassy guy and the enraged crowd was intense) than 2, but I like the direction the show has taken. But then, I didn't hate s3 as much as some people did (well, the first half wasn't that good, but I liked the ending well enough). Anyway, I'm enjoying the new story. The only critism is not enough Saul, and it's unclear what's his story gonna be about. I'm also not really interested in his relationship with Mira. It feels she came back last year only to give him a sounding board (and I enjoy him with Carrie and Dar Adahl way more, too). Otherwise, it's pretty repetitive.

 

I think Quinn works well as an essential male lead. His relationship with Carrie contrasts nicely with Carrie/Brodie - they're both pretty fucked up as well, but Quinn at leasts calls Carrie out on her shit, which is refreshing (I love Carrie to bits, but boy she can be insufferable). And yeah, it's quite clear they're gonna fuck. Probably before the end of the season, even. I don't mind, I've been sorta shipping them since s2.

 

Carrie being an awful mother is completely unsurprising. I was actually just thinking that dropping her child off to be taken care of by nannies and her sister is the best thing Carrie could have done, and she goes and almost drowns her. I can't imagine Carrie ever being attentive to her daughter's needs 24/7, she's way too self-involved (and seems to be completely devoid of the maternal instinct). Mostly, though, I still think writing in Claire Danes' pregnancy was the wrong choice. This isn't the right show for babies.

 

While I agree with her sister that if you bring a life into this world, you are responsible for that life, I would like to add that if you peer pressure someone into keeping a kid they don't want instead of giving it up for adoption by promising to help take care of said kid, then you don't have much of a leg to stand on when the mother takes every opportunity to avoid her kid.

 

This. I'm pretty sure Carrie would have given the child up for adoption if not for her family. It would have probably been the better choice, too. 

 

I choose to think Jessica, Mike and the son are off in a better family life together never having to deal with Brody drama again.

 

I've noticed you omitted Dana. Heh.

Edited October 6, 2014 by FurryFury

[Big Bad Wolf]

How on earth did they find such a perfect mini-Brodette?

 

Relieved to be free of the Brody family and just concentrating on all the CIA intrigue.

 

What was the medicine Aayan was hiding?

 

I had the exact same question. I thought it said "A-Xeron injection" on the label, but Google has nothing on that, so I guess it's a made up name, and what exactly it is is part of the mystery of the coming season. Speaking of which... boy, did they give a lot away in the previews.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I choose to think Jessica, Mike and the son are off in a better family life together never having to deal with Brody drama again.

 

I've noticed you omitted Dana. Heh.

Heh, because in order for Jessica, Mike, and the song to have a better family life they definitely need to ditch Dana aka Debbie Downer.

 

 

 

What was the medicine Aayan was hiding?

I paused but I wasn't watching in HD so I couldn't make out the words clearly. There were at least two sets of brown glass bottles (plus some larger plastic containers). The one with the red label said A (something) injection and the one with the green label said (something) XT injection. I know that's not very helpful but hopefully someone with HD can shed some more light on this.

 

What I like about Carrie and Quinn's relationship is that they don't idealize each other. I feel like she had this fantasy in her head about Brody and that she was more in love with who she thought he was than the actual Brody (I mean, yes, she knew he was a terrorist but she wanted to believe in the man inside who she believed could be good). She and Quinn do not have that issue with each other. They see each other clearly, lumps and all.

[paramitch]

Quinn remains my favorite character, and I really like that he's moved into the show's co-lead. I think Rupert Friend is a fantastic actor, and it's great to watch him explore the consequences this life has had on him.

 

Did anyone else think that Carrie fairly openly implied that a relationship had already happened between them? I wondered, as it's evidently been about 15 months since the end of season 3. He spoke about bringing families, and she brought up wanting to bring him. The phrasing and placement was just odd if it was about leaving him behind professionally. He also went in for a fairly warm hug upon greeting her -- so I wondered if in fact they've already hooked up.  I'm not sure I'm a fan of them long-term though -- I adore Carrie, warts and all, but she will chew him up without even noticing and I'd like Quinn to survive all this.

 

Meanwhile, I thought he was funny and cute with the motel manager (and kudos to the actress for playing the love scene relatively unclothed). And as a chubby woman myself, I was cheering his actions in the diner. For some reason, people who would abhor mocking others for race, disability, etc., don't hesitate to being incredibly, openly cruel to the overweight simply because of the fallacy that "they do it to themselves so they deserve it." I'm attractive but have been mocked to my face dozens of times since childhood, so I admit that the scene where Quinn cheerfully asked her to breakfast (when she was trying to give him the chance to do the sneak-of-shame back to his motel room) was rather poignant and sweet to me.

 

I'm liking the season thus far, and continue to like how willing everyone is (show, Danes, etc.) for Carrie to be flawed. The scene in the bathtub was really tense.

 

However, I'm with Brn2bwild and those who point out that Carrie did not want to be a mother, said that plainly, and I think her very well-meaning family truly just thought (like so many people when it comes to those who do not want kids), "Oh, you're so silly. You'll love her once she arrives." That's why I kind of loved it that while Carrie obviously felt deeply at being close to the baby -- she does feel love -- she just doesn't feel maternal, and you could just see every single bit of it was abhorrent to her. Some people are simply not meant to be parents.

 

I'm sure Rebhorn's death (RIP to a wonderful actor) also had an effect on how this is playing out, but honesty, the best thing Carrie can do is give the baby up for adoption. It will get a great life, her family is off the hook, and Carrie can go back to doing what she does.

 

As far as Saul, I'm going to be annoyed if this season is yet another redux of Mira looking sad and angry as Saul misses this or that dinner or she catches him working on his laptop. I just don't understand people like this. She either needs to support and accept the husband she has or leave. Saul is unquestionably adoring and loves her deeply. I just hope we aren't in for another season of Mira looking hangdog and resentful -- I wish she'd either stay or go.

 

Meanwhile, last but not least, holy cats that baby is a mini-Brody. Incredibly cute and accurate casting.

 

(Note: edited to restore missing words. Weird!)

Edited October 6, 2014 by paramitch

[Tony]

Carrie at her worst - after the car mob scene in the first episode and she was yelling at Quinn "you could have done more!!"

 

He was driving the vehicle while fighting off the horde and shooting at them, WTF else was she expecting him to do? Develop telekinesis and blow them all away with his mind?

[Primetimer]

Quinn struggles with PTSD, Carrie struggles with parenting, and Director Lipless is so over it, he's under it.

Read the story

[Milburn Stone]

The show is fantastic again.

 

Carrie embodies the entire United States in her inner deadness. You make yourself able to do wrong when you extinguish in yourself (through drugs or denial) any ability to care. But somewhere inside, one glowing ember of conscience struggles to re-ignite the fire.

[attica]

I'm with Sarah in that I really didn't think Carrie would stop the baby from drowning. Watching through my fingers (and I don't even like kids) (except maybe ginger big head babies).

 

I wonder what Carrie has in that cross-body bag. It doesn't look like anything. I hate when shows do that: 'we know you need a purse, but we can't be bothered to put any thought beyond that into it.'

 

I was super coveting that candelabra in Saul's (or, you know, Mira's) place.

[FurryFury]

Carrie did not want to be a mother, said that plainly, and I think her very well-meaning family truly just thought (like so many people when it comes to those who do not want kids), "Oh, you're so silly. You'll love her once she arrives." That's why I kind of loved it that while Carrie obviously felt deeply at being close to the baby -- she does feel love -- she just doesn't feel maternal, and you could just see every single bit of it was abhorrent to her. Some people are simply not meant to be parents.

I probably lack this kind of maternal instinct myself (I think I feel the same way about kittens that most people do about babies), so it was nice to see some sort of representation, I guess. It's pretty tiring seeing most women on TV fall in love with their children no matter their personalities or circumstances of the births.

 

He was driving the vehicle while fighting off the horde and shooting at them, WTF else was she expecting him to do? Develop telekinesis and blow them all away with his mind?

 

That's your classic misplaced blame, plus Carrie's usual egocentrism and self-absorption. I do have some hope she'll realize he did his best eventually, and that's the set-up for the evolution of their relationship.

 

Did anyone else think that Carrie fairly openly implied that a relationship had already happened between them? I wondered, as it's evidently been about 15 months since the end of season 3.

 

I'd expect there to be more implications if it were the case.

 

I really didn't think Carrie would stop the baby from drowning.

 

It was obvious she would. Murdering her own child - small baby, even - would be too much for the heroine, even on cable TV. As it stands, this scene has already pushed the envelope too far for some people.

Edited October 6, 2014 by FurryFury

[Trois]

What's with those people in Pakistan who have to speak these phoney accents? It makes them sound like foreigners in their own country. 

The disturbing thing is though that they are actually speaking english with an indian - rather poetic - accent.

 

EDIT: and btw, I am catching myself waiting for the Brody resurrection, maybe as a Pashtu warlord or so.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Trois

[JennB]

After seeing Carrie's complete lack of knowledge of how to take care of a baby (notice she put the car seat in the front seat), I figured she would just leave the baby in the bathtub while she went to do something else, like answer the phone. Then I remembered reading that something super-intense was going to happen. I was tenser during that scene than during the mob in Pakistan. I'm sure Claire Danes struggled to get through that.

@Trois: The weirdest part about the phony accents is that some of the scenes in Pakistan were captioned, and some were in English with accents. Plus, Aayan and the reporter were both speaking English. Why do they keep switching languages? I guess it's so we don't have to read captions all the time, but it's weird.

Loved the apartment manager (and I wish they'd given her character a name). I can see her becoming Quinn's one link to the world away from the CIA.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Murdering her own child - small baby, even - would be too much for the heroine, even on cable TV. As it stands, this scene has already pushed the envelope too far for some people.

Well, yes. My point is that it was shot and acted effectively enough to create some doubt.

[Raachel2008]

Not only did Carrie know that she wouldn't be a good mother,

 

 

There is a difference between being a bad mother and almost drowning your child on purpose. Carrie is one of the most self-absorbed selfish characters on TV ever, as repeatedly shown in previous seasons, and in these two episodes. Nothing is ever her fault, and somehow the fact she is brilliant at what she does is supposed to be an excuse for her horrible behaviour, including all her poor work related decisions - that is it, when bipolar disease is not used as an excuse, too.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Raachel2008

[PiggyRod]

I agree with everyone that says Carrie never wanted to have this baby and was encourage by her family. However she is a grown ass woman that should be able and normally makes her own (bad at that) decisions.  On top of that, oh so your family pushed you to have the baby you did not want so you are just going to drown it? no, no, no, NO.

 

I have when they make character more clueless than they need to be, I understand Carrie lacks maternal instincts but she does not know she is supposed to put the child seat in the back? Please!

 

I love Quinn and landlady, would love to see more of them. Not necessarily romantically but she could be a good grounded friend to him.

[Cramps]

Was just discussing the car seat thing with a friend. I don't have kids and didn't know about the car seat needing to be in the front. Carrie has obviously spent so little time around her child and done no research on how to raise a baby that she didn't know or had forgotten watching her sister do it. Good writing.

The baby bath was horrifying and heartbreaking but the more I think about it (and the more I read here) it was also a brilliant brave provacative piece of writing. What a way to illustrate your lead character.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Cramps

[Constantinople]

Driving up to the house was a good nod to the show but also not really talk Brody. I assume Jessica has moved by now, since Carrie's hanging outside her house?

As if that ever stopped Carrie before.

 

CIA director committing treason, great choice over Saul.

Carrie being noted for her lack of bias and hyperbole.

It would be politically damaging to the CIA Director, enough that I can see him giving in to Carrie's threat, but I don't know that it would constitute treason (assuming the US Government brought charges, which I doubt it would). I can't say what would happen in the real world, but in TV and movies, spies routinely use information, including information that's classified to one degree or another, as bait to get what is perceived as more valuable information from one's adversary.

[bluebonnet]

The baby bath was horrifying and heartbreaking but the more I think about it (and the more I read here) it was also a brilliant brave provacative piece of writing. What a way to illustrate your lead character.

I agree.  I thought it was very interesting.  I could barely watch and had to keep my hands over my eyes a lot of the time.  My sisters and friends have talked to me a lot about the bad moments of parenthood.  I'm sort of the 'safe' option because I don't have children nor do I want them so they don't fear the potential shaming they might receive from other mothers.  I wish they would talk to one another because they've experienced such similar things, especially in those first months.  Even when they babies were very much wanted, they've talked about having moments where the exhaustion, stress and even some bits of postpartum depression were so overwhelming that they envisioned troubling things like leaving the baby in a bathtub.  

 

These situations are different because they aren't tied into mental illness or an unwanted child.  Still, I think it was brilliant that the show acknowledged some of these things, even if they had to do it through the lens of a mentally unstable woman.  

[Milburn Stone]

I've always known what the Trylon and Perisphere were (or at least for the last fifty years or so), but I'm not seeing the connection to last night's episode. Anyone have a theory?

[Grace284]

"There's not a word for what's wrong with you".

 

I'd take a swing at postpartum depression after you pressured a vulnerable woman into having a child she didn't want, but you're right, that's more of a sentence.

 

Brody's genes have clearly gotten stronger over the years, after two kids that looked like neither of their parents he creates a tiny female double.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I agree with everyone that says Carrie never wanted to have this baby and was encourage by her family. However she is a grown ass woman that should be able and normally makes her own (bad at that) decisions.  On top of that, oh so your family pushed you to have the baby you did not want so you are just going to drown it? no, no, no, NO.

 

 

But she didn't drown the baby.  Furthermore, as has been pointed out, there have been a number of women who have struggled with post-partum depression who have done some horrifying things. But they have a mental illness, they literally aren't in their right mind when they are doing it.  We know that Carrie has bipolar disorder - why would we think that she wouldn't struggle with something like post-partum depression?

 

Obviously Carrie contemplated doing a horrible thing but IMO it isn't something we're meant to cheer on (obviously).  IMO, we're meant to recognize that a). Carrie is not mentally well, even when she is medicated and b). Carrie herself recognizes that she's not equipped to take care of the baby.  I know why her sister is upset with her but Carrie spelled out all of the reasons last year why she shouldn't have the child and her sister flatly ignored them.  I mean, I am not saying that justifies Carrie's lapse there; I am saying that we can't be surprised that Carrie recognizes that her lack of mental well-being leaves her ill-equipped to be a good parent. It takes some courage on the writers' part to show that.

Edited October 6, 2014 by eleanorofaquitaine

[Milburn Stone]

"There's not a word for what's wrong with you".

 

I'd take a swing at postpartum depression after you pressured a vulnerable woman into having a child she didn't want, but you're right, that's more of a sentence.

 

Besides that it's more than one word, I think it doesn't quite nail it. What's wrong with Carrie goes beyond postpartum depression. The quickness with which she was able to forgive herself for killing 40 innocent people speaks to an alarming capacity for denial.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

She has definitely gone down the rabbit hole about what is considered acceptable collateral damage. What's worse is that she doesn't understand why Quinn is upset about it.

[vibeology]

If I were Carrie's sister, I'd threaten to put Frannie up for adoption, and then I'd do it.

 

I'm sure Carrie would be thrilled. It was Maggie and Carrie's Dad who wanted that baby. Carrie was ready to give it up and they pushed her to keep it. They promised to care for it. Carrie should have ignored them and given her up but now its just a shitty thing to guilt Carrie about her poor mothering when she was clear that she didn't want to be a mother in the first place. 

 

2). That baby is a female, miniature version of Damian Lewis.  Emmy casting all around.

 

I didn't check the credits but I assume like all TV babies, its twins which makes it more impressive. How many ginger babies in show business are even out there in the first place? Its amazing that the show found Girl Baby Damian Lewis.

 

Quinn is in a very bad place. I think its very real but its upsetting that he seems to have no one who notices or cares. Saul had Mira, Carrie has her sister and Dad but Peter has no one and that's very troubling. He idolized Carrie at one point but she has never cared about him beyond how she could use him. Its really sad seeing his isolation and pain. 

[Constantinople]

Besides that it's more than one word, I think it doesn't quite nail it. What's wrong with Carrie goes beyond postpartum depression. The quickness with which she was able to forgive herself for killing 40 innocent people speaks to an alarming capacity for denial.

Quoted for truth.

Carrie also doesn't see any similarities to how burned out Quinn is now and how burned out Brody was last season, when he essentially committed suicide by Iranian Revolutionary Guard. I think the oversight is particularly notable given that it was the death of an innocent child by drone strike that set Brody on his path.

 

What pisses me off about the baby situation was that Carrie was pretty clear in last season's finale that she didn't want to keep the baby or be a mother.  Her father and sister were like: "OMG, it's totally worth it!  We'll totally help you and even raise the baby if you don't want it!"

Carrie's sister Maggie never said she would raise the baby if Carrie didn't want it. Maggie said that she thought the baby would ground Carrie -- naive, I admit -- and that Carrie would be surprised how much love she would feel for the baby.

Carrie's father Frank offered to raise the baby if Carrie didn't want her. While no doubt sincere, Carrie should know that Frank wasn't in a position to raise the baby given that he suffered from the same mental disease as Carrie (and given Carrie's propensity for stealing his medication).

Maggie then said that Carrie didn't need to decide right then, and that Carrie could wait to decide after the baby was born.

 

Now fast forward, and Carrie has done what they wanted, have the baby, and now they (the sister at least) is resentful that they have to take care of it and Carrie isn't instantly maternal.

In this episode, Maggie said that they agreed that Carrie would go to Istanbul, with Frannie, and that Maggie and her unseen husband would serve as emergency back-up (Maggie also said that it wasn't surprising that their father couldn't pitch in as much as he said he would).

 

Prediction: the show's biggest controversy won't be that Carrie and her people bombed a wedding party.  It will be over her parenting skills (and whether lack of parenting skills makes her a bad person).

Carrie's also a bad sister, but it's all of a piece with her professional life. Carrie is a child who doesn't give a shit what happens to other people so long as she gets what she wants. She can't even keep a commitment in the morning to show-up on time later that day. Then Carrie's surprised when the magic words "I'm sorry" don't make everything better.

[cattykit]

I don't like the character of Carrie Mathison at all.  I think she's self-centered beyond belief and an expert on rationalizing her own bad behavior.  I didn't like anything about her relationship with Brody.  I loathe the way she creates problems for others and then blames them for not solving the problems to her satisfaction.  But I don't understand why she's being pressured to keep a baby she clearly doesn't want instead of allowing it to go to a family who can provide love. 

 

A baby who looks so much like Damien Lewis that I stared at the screen looking for evidence of CGI.  Even the facial expressions.  Yikes.

 

I had expected them to account for the death of James Rebhorn but they have chosen not to.  That felt awkward to me, as well.

[Mia Nina]

 

Quinn is in a very bad place. I think its very real but its upsetting that he seems to have no one who notices or cares. Saul had Mira, Carrie has her sister and Dad but Peter has no one and that's very troubling. He idolized Carrie at one point but she has never cared about him beyond how she could use him. Its really sad seeing his isolation and pain.

 

Yes! This! Whenever he's on screen all I see is terrible loneliness. Sure everyone needs him because he's great at what he does, but nobody cares that they're destroying a human being who is apparently not a horrible person but  a relatively sincere man. It's tough to watch IMO, so the show must be doing a good job. He's been keeping Carrie alive for a while now, but she doesn't "see" it. She doesn't "see" much; she's a disturbingly single focus character, which is why she can be so fascinating and irritating at the same time.

 

I'm not entirely convinced she's unaware of Quinn's stuggles, but honestly, what could she do to help him at the moment? Carrie is actively distancing herself from anything resembling a personal life, feelings, friendship, family, all of it. That said, how can she not reach out when he looks like he's in shock 50% of the time? I don't know, I do love their strange relationship, but it's tough to watch.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Mia Nina

[Joimiaroxeu]

Maggie said that she thought the baby would ground Carrie -- naive, I admit -- and that Carrie would be surprised how much love she would feel for the baby.

Maggie is a psychiatrist and that seemed to me like rather magical thinking for someone who's trained to know better. Has giving birth ever seriously been prescribed as a treatment for bipolar disease? It's an awful lot of responsibility to put on an innocent baby.

 

But I don't understand why she's being pressured to keep a baby she clearly doesn't want instead of allowing it to go to a family who can provide love.

Carrie's family, especially her sister, have gotten attached to the baby--unlike Carrie. I'd be very surprised if they'd be willing to put the child up for adoption now. Maybe Brody's family will eventually end up taking her. If so, I hope it happens while the baby is still young enough not to realize that her mother fled to another continent to get away from her.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

Carrie's also a bad sister, but it's all of a piece with her professional life. Carrie is a child who doesn't give a shit what happens to other people so long as she gets what she wants. She can't even keep a commitment in the morning to show-up on time later that day. Then Carrie's surprised when the magic words "I'm sorry" don't make everything better.

IMO, she's not a child who doesn't care about what happens to other people. She's an adult with a severe mental illness, in a job that is extraordinarily difficult and stressful. Now, granted, that's not a role I would pick for myself, but given the combination of stress factors in her life, I am amazed that she can function at all.

 

Furthermore, I don't think that parallel regarding Quinn is meant to be drawn between him and Brody. It is meant to be drawn between Quinn and Carrie, IMO. Neither of them are coping very well - Quinn has either lost the edge that makes him good at his job or falling apart. Or both.  In any case, I would imagine that is how it often is for individuals who do the kind of jobs they do.  And because they generally do it well (or well-enough, I suppose), the rest of us get to ignore what is going on in places where war and terrorism is a daily fact of life.

[eyetotelescope]

I may be the only person who thought this, but I thought the last scene of Carrie on the plane would zoom out and show that Quinn was on the plane with her, because I thought Quinn would be freaked out by the connection he made with the apartment manager after she wrote him that note, since he's so used to being a solitary individual.

[Turtle]

I was glad that the show didn't make Baby Brody "cure" Carrie and instead explored her messed-up feelings about the whole situation.  Too often on TV we see people who don't want to have children suddenly have a complete personality change when the baby is born, and in reality, that doesn't always happen.  Carrie has bipolar disorder, drinks more than she should (in light of that disorder), is not always consistent with her meds, has seriously screwed up feelings about the baby's father, is selfish and self-centered, and works in a ridiculously stressful field.  It is not at all surprising that her feelings toward the baby would be confused and not 100% healthy, especially considering she didn't want the baby to begin with.  Apathy, disinterest, and avoidance are not totally unexpected reactions.  And I thought the show explored some of that really well, although that bathtub scene was tough to watch.

 

I think I love Quinn?  Didn't see that coming.

[eyetotelescope]

I think I love Quinn?  Didn't see that coming.

 

I've loved Quinn for so long now that I'm confused about what I want for him.  I selfishly want him to stay in this job because he's awesome at it, I like watching him kick ass and I love his dynamic with Carrie, but at the same time, it's quite obvious at this point that he should move on since the job is making him hate himself, and he deserves so much better than that.

[scrb]

I'm guessing the growth is going to come by the end of the season in which Carrie tries to be a loving, committed mother, as opposed to a murderous one.

 

Or, maybe she's not big on bathing, if one remembers how she freshened up before an all-hands meeting in the pilot.

[izabella]

IMO, she's not a child who doesn't care about what happens to other people. She's an adult with a severe mental illness, in a job that is extraordinarily difficult and stressful. Now, granted, that's not a role I would pick for myself, but given the combination of stress factors in her life, I am amazed that she can function at all.

 

It's becoming increasingly more difficult for me to continue suspending disbelief that Carrie would be allowed to continue in her job.

 

Quinn needs a nice vacation.  And maybe it's also time for a new career.  It's ok to step away from the ledge, Quinn! 

[Brn2bwild]

Going back to Aayan and his friends: I know Pakistanis with accents like that.  Maybe they were speaking English because in certain places (like the more cosmopolitan setting of a university or television news), that was the common language spoken? 

[Cosmocrush]

I'm not entirely convinced she's unaware of Quinn's stuggles, but honestly, what could she do to help him at the moment? Carrie is actively distancing herself from anything resembling a personal life, feelings, friendship, family, all of it. That said, how can she not reach out when he looks like he's in shock 50% of the time? I don't know, I do love their strange relationship, but it's tough to watch.

 

 

I may be the only person who thought this, but I thought the last scene of Carrie on the plane would zoom out and show that Quinn was on the plane with her, because I thought Quinn would be freaked out by the connection he made with the apartment manager after she wrote him that note, since he's so used to being a solitary individual.

Carrie is grieving and not very well.  She is shutting herself off from feeling anything for anyone which I suppose helped make her The Drone Queen but kind of terrible for her family and her friends.  On the other hand, I see Quinn as desperately  needing to connect with someone to feel something, anything other than what he's feeling after what happened in Islamabad.   Thus the fight in the diner or the hookup with the building manager, and of course the excessive drinking.  I'm hoping these two can get to some sort of middle ground by the end of the season.

 

Meanwhile, I'd love to see the girl at the apartment become a friend for Quinn.  She seems cool, and he's a good guy for a CIA killer. 

 

ETA:  What happened to the opening sequence?  Is it gone with the Brody storyline?  

Edited October 7, 2014 by Cosmocrush

[Raachel2008]

 What is wrong with Carrie goes way beyond a (possible) postpartum depression or the ups and downs of bipolar disease; she doesn't do the things she does because she is bipolar or because she has a stressful job, she does the things she does because she is selfish and what she wants always comes first. Sometimes what she wants matches what is best for the agency or the country, but medicated or not, it is all about what Carrie wants. Season 3 was all about Carrie wanting to prove that Brody was not the big baddie who had blown up Langley, season 2 was about Carrie trying to protect Brody one way or another, season 1 was about Carrie pursuing Brody even when he didn't want her or she knew the best thing for him was rebuild the links with his family - the fact he could be or indeed was a terrorist was relevant only when it suited her interests. In order to justify her actions she rationalizes things, one way or another. That is who she is. Makes her a horrible human being, a lot of the time, and a very interesting TV character, some times.

 

As far as Frannie goes, Maggie never said she would raise the baby, that was their father's idea. Maggie was rightfully pissed because Carrie dropped Istambul for Afghanistan to get away from Frannie. Not matter how you look at that, this is a shitty thing to do. Frannie is there and ultimately it was Carrie's decision to give birth. Taking responsibility is another thing she has never done well, I don't see why that would be different with regards her child or the 40 people dead as "colateral damage". 

 

FWIW, I've always thought that Jackson Pace was a perfect cast as Brody's and Jessica's son.

[Sofie Fatale]

Omg the family stuff dragged. Nobody wants to see mommy-Carrie, so nip that shit in the bud show.

Moving on....more Quinn.

[Cosmocrush]

I've always known what the Trylon and Perisphere were (or at least for the last fifty years or so), but I'm not seeing the connection to last night's episode. Anyone have a theory?

Good question!  I generally am pretty good at figuring these things out but this time I not only had to look up the what Trylon and Perisphere was but have no idea how it relates.  I'd love to hear theories as well. 

[izzisdashiz]

My theory is that Haissam Haqqani is alive and the medicine Ayaan has in his bag is to treat him. That could also be why the goons visited him at his dorm. 

[Ihatefacebook]

I think that the Trylon and Perisphere reference make sense in the context that they were part of the Democracity exhibit, which presented a utopian vision of the world of tomorrow. This ideal democracy stands in ironic contrast to the numerous shady things that Carrie and company engage into preserve the democracy in which they live.

Another way in which the World's Fair reference fits into this episode is the theme of imagined future Utopias that have not panned out as expected. Carrie has not magically become a great mother; Saul has not become someone who is happy with a private sector job that enables him to salvage his marriage.

[LotusFlower]

Is sizism a word? (As I size-ism. Auto-correct doesn't think so). Why does everyone say they hope the building manager can be around for Quinn, as a friend? How about, you know, as more than a friend? Cuz I think that would be cool. Totally unrealistic in TV land, but still cool. And nice for Quinn.