S46 Ep. 13 Finale/Aftershow

[iMonrey]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

So, yeah: in essence the F3-eliminated player (and newest juror) gets to break the tie, and personally choose which of the remaining two will take home $1M of Production’s money.

True, there may be a more elegant and/or aesthetically pleasing system out there to address such a chain of events - but if there is, nobody’s thought of it yet.  😁

I think if there's a tie they should split the million bucks. Or each get a million bucks. I see no reason why the tie must be broken. (Oh, I know, I know, "sole survivor" blah blah blah. But the reality is that all three of the final three "survived" so, whatever.)

2 hours ago, eel2178 said:

We have also seen enough final tribal councils with one player getting no votes for it to be deduced that there is no reason not to go back to a final 2 scenario.

100%. Final three is dumb, there's no reason for it, there's almost always someone who gets zero votes, and everyone always knows it in advance.

[eel2178]

9 hours ago, dizzyd said:

I really think they need to do a better job with casting and listen to viewer feedback and not make it a new norm to cast a whole bunch of delusionals, whackos, quitters, there needs to be more balance in the personalities.

I do viewer surveys for CBS, and earlier this month I said pretty much the same thing. I said I wanted them to go back to the days when at least some of the people were cast for their outdoor skills and not those who had practiced all the challenges at home instead of learning which plants that grow wild in Fiji are edible (I'm sure Liz could have found something in the jungle to eat other than coconuts and papayas if she had known what to look for).

I also said that the challenges need to be something other than swim, climb over/through (usually involving mud), jump, throw, untie, then do a puzzle. It has become boring to watch the variation on the same theme over and over again.

After watching the finale, I'll have a lot more to say when I get my June survey.

[eel2178]

10 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

Why was Liz able to eat pizza but not pasta?

I still think she is just a picky eater and tried to use "allergies" as an excuse.

pasta = flour, oil, salt, eggs

Those would have been found in both pizza and the coveted Applebee's burger.

[Chicago Redshirt]

58 minutes ago, Skooma said:

And yeah you don't have to "believe" Maia was not bitter but the evidence for an accusation of bitterness lies with the accuser.  Maria is innocent as far as I'm concerned until there is concrete evidence -- not hearsay, speculation etc -- otherwise.  When a person we don't know about in real life is defamed on the internet it drives me crazy and more than a little sad.

Anyway, Maria didn't cost Charlie the million.  The vote was 5-3.  Charlie flubbed the question session in the minds of the jury and Kenzie didn't.

In fairness, the evidence involved is almost always going to involve speculation and inference from what's on screen unless Maria looks into the camera and says "Boy, I'm bitter about Charlie being involved in voting me out. I'm going ABC -- anybody but Charlie."

So there's certainly circumstantial evidence one could make to build a case for Maria being bitter (which could generally equally be read as a coincidence, downplayed, etc.)

I don't necessarily subscribe to the "Bitter Maria" theory, but from the top of my head:

1. Bitterness/vindictiveness/lack of forgiveness/harshness has been one of Maria's character traits in general. See: her bullying of Jelinsky when as part of the game he was supposed to convince her that he and not the other Survivor had the flame symbol, her reducing Ben to tears in a deleted scene.

2. It's commonplace for tight duos to vote for each other if one makes the FTC and the other does not. The general explanation for when one doesn't is bitterness.

3. Just before she was booted, Maria promised Charlie she would vote for him to get a million dollars before she was ousted. Going back on that promise is the sort of thing a bitter person would do.

4. Maria was pretty salty about having been voted out. (As well she should be.) it is not unreasonable to think that saltiness carried over to the voting booth a day later. (The problem with this part of the argument is that she voted for the person she should have one of the highest levels of salt towards, Kenzie.) 

5. Maria's articulated rationale for voting Kenzie -- that she saw fire in Kenzie's eyes during the firemaking challenge -- seems like a transparently BS rationale. It seems like too bizarre a reason on its face someone should get a million, and an insufficient reason to go back on the promise. (To be fair, in interviews, she added that she liked Kenzie's answer as to what she would do with the million also, and suggested that she wanted Kenzie to do it for the ladies as well).

6. The disparity between what Charlie did in the game and what Kenzie did in the game was pretty great. To vote Kenzie when Charlie had the better game suggests bitterness.

7. Given that Charlie and Maria were working hand-in-hand for most of the season, until Charlie turned on her suggests that she should acknowledge that as good as she might think her gameplay to be, she should recognize that his was at least as good if not better. Thus, if she thinks that she was deserving of winning a million through her gameplay but for a cruel twist of fate or two, then she should recognize that Charlie was at least equally deserving as she was if not more so.

8. I suspect that people who wanted to could point to things in Maria's tone of voice, body language, etc. that suggests that she was still salty about having been voted out.

1 hour ago, watch2much said:

I'm ok with the outcome.  the motto includes "outwit" so anyway someone does it is fair game.  I would have liked Charlie to win but I feel he was caught flat footed on the money question.  I have a feeling law school debt can't be that great if it didn't take more prominence. 

 The Internet says that the average law school student has $160k in debt afterwards.

https://educationdata.org/average-law-school-debt#:~:text=The average law school graduate,just to attend law school.

I am more than 10 years out and should have had my loans forgiven due to public service work, but still apparently have hoops to jump through. Yes, I make any alleged bitterness that Maria may possess look tiny by comparison because of this subject.

Anyway, it may be that the jury didn't realize that, or that Charlie didn't sell them hard enough on how much it would mean to go to law school and end up debt-free. It may be that the jurors figured that when Charlie is done with law school, he will make enough money to get out of debt quick, or at least quicker than your average dude. (The Internet says he should have just graduated from Boston College Law School, which is a top 30 law school. So hopefully, he's got a good placement.) It could be that the jurors who said that they gave their vote in part or entirely based on the answer to what the Survivor would do with the money either lied about that being the motivating factor or would have been more moved by Kenzie's answer than Charlie's.

[eel2178]

7 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

It’s not cheating if it’s allowed. I think no one has ever thought to do it before, or couldn’t bring themselves to tank their individual chances, even for the moment. It’s a different kind of strategy, for sure. 

I don't remember what season it was (or even who was on this season), but there was one challenge where they had to answer questions and every time you got one right you chopped someone else's rope. After 3 chops, you were out of the challenge.

There was one rather large alliance who had already decided in what order ropes would be chopped, and who would win the game. Instead of letting it play out, Jeff just stopped it mid-challenge and asked who the winner was going to be and left it at that.

[choclatechip45]

Way too much filler. I'm glad Kenzie won even though I would have preffered Charlie. 

[KaveDweller]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

In the "old era" I suspect by the time the winner was announced on the live show several months later they already knew whether they'd won or lost. And had the time to prepare themselves. I see no reason why they can't go back to that, other than the show's ridiculous obsession with pushing the "new era" concept as though it's an entirely different show.

It is WAY cheaper to film an after show right after they finish the actual season than to bring the entire cast to New York, build sets, and have a live reunion with a big audience. I suspect that is the real reason they won't go back to the old way.

6 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

Coach/Ozzie, to be pedantic and annoying. But enough about Coach. I'm sure there's no hard and fast rule, because Jeff always likes the good tv. But I also think they could draw a distinction--two people can't do the puzzle, for example, but one could run for items or rebound beanbags or something that wasn't direct sharing. (which happened here, but I'm thinking more on how they might explain it away.)

With Ozzy/Sophie, I think it was a case where they had to build a house of cards while holding a rope to keep it balanced. Sophie would have had to drop her rope to pick up more cards, so she asked her alliance mate to pick them up for her. But I don't remember if Jeff actually said no that time or the guy refused. 

That was years ago though. Rules change.

5 hours ago, suebee18 said:

Don't get me wrong, I like Kenzie (even though I was rooting for Charlie). BUT, and trust me I have no idea personally, aren't tattoos expensive? I mean, really good ones, like she has, not the dark blurry muddy ones that you can't even tell what it is. So apparently, she's made some money along the way. Oh I know, maybe her employees paid her in tats instead of real money. Tats are pretty (no, not really!) but they're no retirement investment portfolio.

She didn't say she was broke just that she doesn't make a lot of money in her business. I would imagine she makes money off the clients whose hair she cuts herself, but was saying how she could make more if she took a commission from other stylists in her salon.

2 hours ago, eel2178 said:

I still think she is just a picky eater and tried to use "allergies" as an excuse.

pasta = flour, oil, salt, eggs

Those would have been found in both pizza and the coveted Applebee's burger.

Liz seemed to be legit starving so I think she is actually allergic to stuff. Didn't they offer her gluten free pizza at one reward? That is probably why she could eat pizza. And you can take a burger off a bun.

[Carey]

19 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

It is WAY cheaper to film an after show right after they finish the actual season than to bring the entire cast to New York, build sets, and have a live reunion with a big audience. I suspect that is the real reason they won't go back to the old way.

It's a combination of things, including the cost cutting.  Personally, maybe it's  time for Survivor and other shows to call it quits.  Sure cost-cutting is a reason, but it's also an excuse.

Just an opinion of mine sometimes.  Though I think it's fair when after so long, you've done everything you can & tried everything to where there's nothing new & innovative anymore.

The rule changes are a thing, speaking of which.  Every season is different.  I remember about a decade ago thinking how one's chances of winning were dashed if a injury hindered their participation, while Missy Payne more or less punted on everything before outlasting everyone but a couple people.

If someone was helping out someone else, I'd probably do the same at the same time myself.  It might cost me, but if I go down, so is the other threat

[Fake Jan Brady]

10 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Wait a minute! Are you saying if there is a tie the goat who gets no votes gets to pick the winner?! That's insane! Absolutely insane! There has to be a better way to decide a winner than leave in the hands of a loser who usually has no business being in the final three.

That's how Wendell won Ghost Island.

[Chalby]

23 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I don’t hate Kenzie’s victory, but I really wanted it to be Charlie.  I just think he deserved it more, as I thought he was more of a strategic player, and I’m curious if Maria was being a bitter cakes in Ponderosa and trashed his game to the jury.  They also need to stop the immediate after-show and give the finalists a chance to process what happened, because I was bummed seeing Charlie looking so sad.  I hope he comes back someday and gets another chance.  When he mentioned that his moves have been in the shadows, I think that was foreshadowing to him losing.  Being tied to Maria probably didn’t help, either, since his moves can easily be tied to hers and the jury may have questioned what he did that was just his.  But you’ll never convince me Maria didn’t vote for him because she was bitter he got her first.  I will say that I really disliked both Charlie and Kenzie in the beginning and this would have been my worst nightmare then, but I came around to really liking both of them. 

Truly a legend in her own mind, but I almost enjoyed her antics.  And at least she was a little bitter on her way out.

I have to admit I was surprised at her outburst when she said she would have beaten everyone. Meanwhile the jury were all side eyeing each other when she said that. She really didn't have a clue, did she?

[Carey]

28 minutes ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

10 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Wait a minute! Are you saying if there is a tie the goat who gets no votes gets to pick the winner?! That's insane! Absolutely insane! There has to be a better way to decide a winner than leave in the hands of a loser who usually has no business being in the final three.

That's how Wendell won Ghost Island.

Maybe they actually do this or have done it, but maybe the final 3 votes for one of their two opponents before Final Tribal Council begins.  That way, no pressure since a tie is probably not in the cards

[WatcherUp2]

I just realized that Ben and the guy from last season who was in the final three but got no votes (so unmemorable that i cant remember his name) were nearly identical in their time on Survivor: both nice guys, both way too emotional for the show, both ultimately forgettable.

From this Charlie interview, it sounds like Maria's been giving Liz a run for the cuckoo prize over the last year.

https://ew.com/survivor-46-charlie-davis-interview-maria-8652760

[Carey]

Makes you wonder if we have enough people for their own season, that made the finals only to get shut out

[Meowwww]

I called Kenzie’s win from the moment she asked if her eyes were soooo blue when she cries.  Another unlikeable winner.  The real players get eliminated and the milquetoast wins by default.  Show, do better. 

[Rodney]

11 hours ago, WatcherUp2 said:

I just realized that Ben and the guy from last season who was in the final three but got no votes (so unmemorable that i cant remember his name) were nearly identical in their time on Survivor: both nice guys, both way too emotional for the show, both ultimately forgettable.

That would be Jake.  But he was given a lot more screen time than Ben was.

Edited May 24 by Rodney

[princelina]

Two themes we have come up with for future seasons:

1.  All of the wackos

2.  All of the goats who got no votes

[violet and green]

6 hours ago, Skooma said:

Anyway, Maria didn't cost Charlie the million.  The vote was 5-3. 

Her vote, which she'd told him was assured, made four for Charlie. Ben would have voted as the tiebreaker, and he has said, and Jeff has confirmed this, that he would have voted for Charlie. So, yeah, she did cost him the million.

[Duke Silver]

I'm cool with Kenzie winning.  I initially liked Maria, but more exposure to her made me turn on a dime.  Liz is cray; the end.  Ben was a total non-factor to me until he won the final challenge.

FWIW, I think out of the final 4, Charlie "deserved" the win the most based on the actual game.  Kenzie won for outside-the-game reasons, afaic, and you know what?  That's cool too, because final argument is part of the game, and she got enough of the jury on board.

[surfgirl]

12 hours ago, Duke Silver said:

FWIW, I think out of the final 4, Charlie "deserved" the win the most based on the actual game.  Kenzie won for outside-the-game reasons, afaic, and you know what?  That's cool too, because final argument is part of the game, and she got enough of the jury on board.

Did she really though? Or did she win because Maria revenge voted for her out of spite for Charlie voting her out? Seems more like the latter to me.

Edited May 24 by surfgirl

[WatcherUp2]

3 hours ago, Meowwww said:

I called Kenzie’s win from the moment she asked if her eyes were soooo blue when she cries.  Another unlikeable winner.  The real players get eliminated and the milquetoast wins by default.  Show, do better. 

I'd be willing to bet that those talking heads are in response to questions from the production staff, who probably ask both personal and more game-based questions. I thought her answer about her eyes showed she considered it to be a goofy question, so she gave a goofy, over-the-top answer. 

Liz is strange, but I'd also bet some of her more oddball TH comments were in response to spoonfed production questions aimed to get an extreme reaction.

[dizzyd]

17 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In the old era, they had the after-show right after the vote reveal to the public, but months after the actions had happened and in Los Angeles in front of a crowd. The aftershow would also feature all of the castmembers and have to accommodate all of them, as opposed to just the jury members and the F3.

So there were pros and cons to that:

I like how you outlined the Ps and Cs. To me the cons outweigh the pros so I prefer the insta aftershow. I’d be ok with the live aftershow for a special occasion like S50 when we can get updates from past players especially if it’s a returnee season but not on a regular basis. 
For example, I did not need to see the live audience reactions to Liz’s IC assistance or Maria’s vote off or anything and I definitely do not want to ever see Bhanu or Jelensky ever again much less have to listen to them. As far as learning if Uncle Charlie got to meet Maria’s kids, that was answered next day in an interview and such a shame to learn that Charlie tried but Maria still couldn’t get over the game and so 1 year later, it still hasn’t happened.

Edited May 24 by dizzyd

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, WatcherUp2 said:

I'd be willing to bet that those talking heads are in response to questions from the production staff, who probably ask both personal and more game-based questions. I thought her answer about her eyes showed she considered it to be a goofy question, so she gave a goofy, over-the-top answer. 

Liz is strange, but I'd also bet some of her more oddball TH comments were in response to spoonfed production questions aimed to get an extreme reaction.

However Kenzie's remark about her eyes wasn't in response to a question. She was crying and talking about something else, then suddenly, Kenzie asked the producer,  "Do my eyes look really blue?  After I've been crying my eyes always look really blue!"

Kenzie has an exaggerated view of herself, she can sit in front of the jury, covered with $5000 worth of tattoos and say she  has worked in salons since she was fifteen and never spent any money on herself, so if she wins she's going to spend it all on herself, so she won't have to cut bangs when she's seventy. 

And they bought it!  Suddenly owning a salon was the depths of poverty and cutting bangs worse than flipping burgers. They thought her story was  better than Ben's and Ben actually had an impressive plan worked out to bring music to kids. 

Casting needs to quit confusing hubris with confidence.  That's why we ended up with Bhanu who really thought he was winning the hearts of millions and Jalinsky who thought he could volunteer for everything but not have to do any work, and Maria who can "see right through" Ben and know when he's lying and really believed Liz and Kenzie when they told her it takes two to beat you -- even though she'd been beaten by one other person in quite a few challenges.

[nlkm9]

14 hours ago, Rodney said:

 

I just think Maria is a very spiteful person. she wasnt winning, so she took it away from Charlie. I adore Kenzie, she is a great winner but Charlies explanations of how he set everything up, I thought he was brilliant and got robbed by a bitter, cruel person. sorry Maria, I hope I never see you on my screen again.

[cowgirlwen]

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It may be that the jurors figured that when Charlie is done with law school, he will make enough money to get out of debt quick, or at least quicker than your average dude.

This.  Charlie and Kenzie are both twenty-something individuals with very different life paths ahead of them.  Charlie has a law degree, which sets him up for a potentially very prosperous life with or without the prize money.  Kenzie's future includes cutting bangs until she retires, making significantly less money than Charlie along the way.  I think the jury, especially those who switched their votes at FTC, took this into consideration.  It wasn't so much what Kenzie said in her final answer, more so both of their final answers reminded the jury of this fact immediately before the vote.

[laurakaye]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Much like @Lantern7 I'd pretty much resolved to check out for awhile until I saw the preview and discovered Jon Lovett is going to be on next season. 

This is hilarious and awesome. I listen to one of his podcasts.  This morning, his co-hosts mentioned that he was going to be on the next season and I literally thought they were kidding.  I even watched a clip but I don't know enough about what he looks like.  Looks like I am 100% in on season Forty Several.

 

20 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I wonder if other players will start doing this, or if Liz’s actions will prompt a rule change.  Probably not. Jeff loves it when the players make their own rules. 

15 hours ago, QQQQ said:

Since Liz and Kenzie were allowed to work together on a challenge (heck, Liz abandoned hers and I don't think Kenzie even touched the plank let alone counted any of the holes), would it have been permissible for (say) two players to have teamed up on the final challenge too? One to monitor the Plinko ball board and one to complete the puzzle?

Herein lies the problem.  Either it's a rule or it isn't.  Jeff didn't stop Liz so now I foresee that very scenario re: the Plinko board coming true, or variations of it, and then what is Jeff going to do? It's like the first time a player got up at TC to whisper to another one - it led to so many players wandering around at TC now, it's practically mandatory, and Jeff pretends to sit there and eat it up like popcorn and licorice.

The less completely obvious thing would've been to have Kenzie run back down for the plank while Liz stayed put and counted the puzzle pieces.  I was irritated that Liz chose to run all the way back for the plank on Kenzie's behalf, but whatever - it's done now.  Have fun controlling it going forward, Probst.

Other observations - Charlie looked so broken during the reunion, but managed to pull himself out of his funk to give Kenzie her props, and I thought that spoke volumes about the way he handled it in the moment.  I hope Charlie's faux nephews take note.

Did CBS allow a band-new intern to cast this season?  Between Jelinsky, Bhanu, Q, and Liz.....well, I guess one good thing is that I probably won't immediately forget this season's cast like I have with seasons 41-45.  I guess that's good?

Bring on Big Brother, I guess.

 

 

 

[realitytvfan1017]

After hearing interviews with the players and reading articles and stuff , I have some thoughts. These are:

1. I haven’t read or heard anything from Maria that convinced me she wasn’t bitter on some level. Her explanations didn’t make sense and that’s coupled with what Charlie and maybe what Ben said? I’ll take the high road like Charlie and not take any personal shots at Maria but her actions relating to this and a few  other things gave me a bad taste in my mouth , because she didn’t explain them adequately either. Time will tell with Maria. But I’m not surprised that Charlie isn’t close with her and think he’s better off. It shows me how much a better person he is than her the way he handled things with Maria and at the after show with the reveal about Kenzie’s win and Maria’s vote.
 

2. After hearing what Ben and Charlie said about Liz , I won’t be saying any more man things about her, even though I definitely don’t respect her game and some of her actions in the game. I liked how she was also there for Ben, as Ben and Charlie and I think Kenzie also mentioned she did. I like that about her. Not for Survivor but perhaps a real nice person in life. 
 

3. Grew to like Kenzie but didn’t like her at first. Happy for her even though I wanted Charlie to win. Still think about some of her actions during the early Yanu days, and they bothered me. Not as much as with Bhanu as with Jess. Bhanu was an energy sucker and he’d have tested my patience too. I wish they explained that. Maybe it was just editing or Jess and Kenzie resolved things. Just had crossed my mind and I was curious. I don’t agree with her win because I’m the type of person that thinks a player who has a well rounded game should win not for their social game like Charlie who was very well rounded and I was happy for Dee winning for the same reason. 

 
 

 

Also I don’t blame Liz for her actions in helping Kenzie but Jeff and producers allowing it. Not a fan of Maria but seemed like bad way to handle situation.

4 hours ago, cowgirlwen said:

This.  Charlie and Kenzie are both twenty-something individuals with very different life paths ahead of them.  Charlie has a law degree, which sets him up for a potentially very prosperous life with or without the prize money.  Kenzie's future includes cutting bangs until she retires, making significantly less money than Charlie along the way.  I think the jury, especially those who switched their votes at FTC, took this into consideration.  It wasn't so much what Kenzie said in her final answer, more so both of their final answers reminded the jury of this fact immediately before the vote.

Good point. Not a good reason to award money in my mind but good explanation for jury’s actions. 

[realitytvfan1017]

11 hours ago, violet and green said:

Her vote, which she'd told him was assured, made four for Charlie. Ben would have voted as the tiebreaker, and he has said, and Jeff has confirmed this, that he would have voted for Charlie. So, yeah, she did cost him the million.

Yeah I can’t quite be convinced that her voting the way she did didn't effect Charlie not winning especially since she was the one out of the others who voted for Kenzie to have been more likely  vote for Charlie. 

[Skooma]

11 hours ago, violet and green said:

Her vote, which she'd told him was assured, made four for Charlie. Ben would have voted as the tiebreaker, and he has said, and Jeff has confirmed this, that he would have voted for Charlie. So, yeah, she did cost him the million.

She had the right to change her vote.  That is suppose to be what the final Q & A session is about.  And Kenzie made a far better case.  Charlie choked. 

Besides Charlie had promised final 2 with Maria too then voted her out.  So everybody "assures" everybody else a million things in this game of backstabbing and you expect one single person to follow through on one single assurance?? 

Nay. No guarantee Charlie would have voted for Maria either especially since Charlie voted Maria out.  Pot / Kettle stuff. 

And if Charlie was so "deserving" of the win he would have had a higher vote total than 3 period without counting Maria's vote.  He didn't because he didn't play the game he imagined in his mind and what he "sold" to the TV audience in confessionals.  Or he flubbed explaining it to the jury.  (I think BOTH were the case).

[realitytvfan1017]

2 minutes ago, Skooma said:

She had the right to change her vote.  That is suppose to be what the final Q & A session is about.  And Kenzie made a far better case.  Charlie choked. 

Besides Charlie had promised final 2 with Maria too then voted her out.  So everybody "assures" everybody else a million things in this game of backstabbing and you expect one single person to follow through on one single assurance?? 

Nay. No guarantee Charlie would have voted for Maria either especially since Charlie voted Maria out.  Pot / Kettle stuff. 

And if Charlie was so "deserving" of the win he would have had a higher vote total than 3 period without counting Maria's vote.  He didn't because he didn't play the game he imagined in his mind and what he "sold" to the TV audience in confessionals.  Or he flubbed explaining it to the jury.  (I think BOTH were the case).

We don’t see the whole tribal council and there was more that he did that wasn’t shown, so you don’t know that. And a few of the jury members said it wasn’t clear cut their decision which made them think that Charlie could have a case. So I will just say agree to disagree with you.

[Nashville]

20 hours ago, surfgirl said:

It felt, after the fact, like Peachy can't have an older person win, it has to be a younger, hipper person so he was fine with Liz sabotaging Maria to help Kenzie win. That pissed me off because he always likes to harp on the age of older players. At this point, I think Peachy is an ageist. Sort of a self loathing ageist who fancies himself still the same younger dude who started this show decades ago. Bleh.

IMHO it’s less about personal biases and more about simple marketing; Jiffy tends to promote players more likely to appeal to the show’s key demographic target age (18-54).

 

18 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Final three is dumb, there's no reason for it, there's almost always someone who gets zero votes, and everyone always knows it in advance.

Actually, I thought my earlier comments (regarding tie resolution) addressed this pretty well; the F3-and-8-jurors model permits a fairly simple process for the resolution of tie votes.

 

16 hours ago, eel2178 said:

I don't remember what season it was (or even who was on this season), but there was one challenge where they had to answer questions and every time you got one right you chopped someone else's rope. After 3 chops, you were out of the challenge.

There was one rather large alliance who had already decided in what order ropes would be chopped, and who would win the game. Instead of letting it play out, Jeff just stopped it mid-challenge and asked who the winner was going to be and left it at that.

…and we have not seen - and probably will never see - that particular comp since. 😄

 

37 minutes ago, realitytvfan1017 said:

3. Grew to like Kenzie but didn’t like her at first. 

Same. I was initially sour as hell on Kenzie when on Day 2(?) she was already doing THs declaring herself “queen” of her tribe; to me it bespoke a level of self-conceit which, given her game moves up to that point in time, was totally unwarranted.  In truth, it took  Kenzie quite a while to get herself out of the hole of self-absorption she had initially dug with me.

[iMonrey]

I meant to address the rather obvious misdirect when the show tried to make us think maybe they would vote out Ben instead of Maria. Remember that? Because it speaks to how prompted they must be during their interview segments.

I assume a producer asks them to say why it might be a good idea to vote out Ben instead of Maria, and they are then required to come up with an answer. Then the editors can go back and make it look like they are actually thinking about voting for Ben. 

Because it was clear they were all voting for Maria. And we wasted an entire 10 minute segment on this false narrative that maybe, just maybe, Maria had convinced them to think about voting out Ben to manufacture an element of suspense going into that tribal council. 

Also, I think the show miscalculated Maria's perceived popularity, because the weepy music and over-the-top tributes to Maria's greatness before voting her out made it seem like the show thought viewers were going to be really, really disappointed Maria didn't win. They maybe should have taken into consideration her vote for Kenzie in the end there because I think that really punctured a hole in her popularity balloon.

[gorgy]

after a few days of thinking, Kenzie started off with both Q and Bhanu on her tribe, so she deserved it the most

[realitytvfan1017]

58 minutes ago, Nashville said:

IMHO it’s less about personal biases and more about simple marketing; Jiffy tends to promote players more likely to appeal to the show’s key demographic target age (18-54).

 

Actually, I thought my earlier comments (regarding tie resolution) addressed this pretty well; the F3-and-8-jurors model permits a fairly simple process for the resolution of tie votes.

 

…and we have not seen - and probably will never see - that particular comp since. 😄

 

Same. I was initially sour as hell on Kenzie when on Day 2(?) she was already doing THs declaring herself “queen” of her tribe; to me it bespoke a level of self-conceit which, given her game moves up to that point in time, was totally unwarranted.  In truth, it took  Kenzie quite a while to get herself out of the hole of self-absorption she had initially dug with me.

Same here about Kenzie. I get your points .

[eel2178]

16 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Didn't they offer her gluten free pizza at one reward? That is probably why she could eat pizza. And you can take a burger off a bun.

If her problem was with gluten, then why didn't they offer her gluten free pasta as well?

There are also no guarantees that Applebee's hamburgers aren't made with breadcrumbs as a filler. Did she check every thing else she ate to be sure it wasn't made with coconut oil?

Edited May 24 by eel2178

[eel2178]

16 hours ago, Carey said:

 Personally, maybe it's  time for Survivor and other shows to call it quits.  

One of the questions on my last viewer survey was "if this show went away, how much would you miss it?" It was asked about all the CBS and CW shows I watch, not just Survivor.

That question had never been on any of their previous surveys, and I've been doing this for at least 15 years.

[princelina]

11 hours ago, surfgirl said:

Did ahead really though? Or did she win because Maria revenge voted for her out of spite for Charlie voting her out? Seems more like the latter to me.

I don't think it matters - I still think Amber was the most useless winner ever, and she only won because Rob dragged her through and people were mad at him.  A vote is a vote and a win is a win, and a bitter bunny can factor into that.  And IMO there's a lot of luck that no one wants to admit to.

 

16 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

One of the questions on my last viewer survey was "if this show went away, how much would you miss it?" It was asked about all the CBS and CW shows I watch, not just Survivor.

Mr. P and I would miss it terribly!!!

[SummerDreams]

Maria you used to be a witch in my eyes but with your bitter vote you have been promoted to a pure bitch.

Congrats Kenzie, a winner I finally like and understand her win.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, eel2178 said:

If her problem was with gluten, then why didn't they offer her gluten free pasta as well?

There are also no guarantees that Applebee's hamburgers aren't made with breadcrumbs as a filler.

Again, from Googling, it seems that it's plausible that a person can be allergic to pasta but not pizza or other wheat products. From apparent trial and error, she has had THE EXACT BURGER at Applebee's each Wednesday, so she knows she can eat that. It may be that she checked on the pasta and knew it wasn't gluten free, or it may be that she just didn't want to risk it. 

Edited May 24 by Chicago Redshirt

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, eel2178 said:

One of the questions on my last viewer survey was "if this show went away, how much would you miss it?" It was asked about all the CBS and CW shows I watch, not just Survivor.

That question had never been on any of their previous surveys, and I've been doing this for at least 15 years.

I’m sure that question wasn’t a part of earlier surveys, and its inclusion now speaks to a new issue for the networks (not just CBS) - their growing concern over how much viewership they’re losing due to people switching away from broadcast media and going 100% on streaming platforms.

Used to be a show with solid-but-not-outstanding ratings could still rest relatively comfortably in the “rocking chair” of a network’s schedule, so long as there was sufficient lower-hanging fruit ratings-wise to take any hits.  As recent cancellations have demonstrated, however - CSI:Vegas is one which immediately leaps to mind - “comfortable” or even “solid” ratings don’t necessarily cut it any more; failing to reliably top the ratings charts week after week is a good way to get dropped.  The networks want shows which can compete successfully not just against other shows on the network’s schedule, but against the streaming platform offerings as well.

Are the networks being realistic?  Probably not - but in true “the sky is falling” fashion, this is the route they currently appear to be pursuing in their quest for market share.

[pennben]

From a Twitter post (not sure how to copy directly):

“Survivor ends the 2023/2024 season as the number one entertainment show among adults 18-34, 18-49 and 25-54 for the first time since season 2 (Australian Outback), according to CBS.

Last night's finale was up 2% in viewers and 11% in key demos compared to the season 44 finale.”

[blackwing]

Regarding Liz helping Kenzie at the challenge, as soon as it was apparent that this was happening, my question was whether everyone's boards were the same or whether they all had the same number of geckos on their puzzle.  I thought about it for a second and then decided that they all had to be the same with the same order for the combination, otherwise it wouldn't be fair.

When Liz ran back to get the board, I thought that was a good way to ensure that Maria would lose.  As long as Jeffy didn't say it was prohibited.  However, I was shocked when Liz came back with Kenzie's board.  I thought Liz was going to come back with her own board and count the holes on her board and assume they were the same as Kenzie's.

I would have thought there was always a rule against straying outside of your own section of the course, or against touching someone else's stuff.  In team competitions, it's different.  We've seen challenges like rolling the huge Indiana Jones ball where one team is blocking the path of the other and the other team just has to wait for them to pass or move.  But in individual competitions, I don't think I've ever seen anyone cross to someone else's.  Otherwise, Liz and Ben could have immediately gone to Maria's lane and tackled her or impeded her progress.

When Liz came back with Kenzie's board, I thought she was going to get disqualified.  As soon as she left her lane, I thought Jeffy would have disqualified her.  But he didn't.  I think he didn't anticipate this happening, and knowing Jeffy, it made for "good TV" so he allowed it.  Last season, when Jake stepped on the thing and broke it, Jeffy immediately disqualified him, so it does seem that Jeffy has some leeway in making decisions when something unexpected happens.

In any event, I disliked Maria, so I was fine with Liz helping Kenzie.  Much has been said about Maria being bittercakes at Charlie and voting against him out of spite.  Charlie was the one that pulled off the Q vote and got Liz and Kenzie to support him.  Maria is a competitive person and would be the type to recognise and reward good game play.  So for her in the end to say that she voted for Kenzie as a woman and because Kenzie wanted money for herself to have a baby, that doesn't ring true to me at all.

In the beginning of the game I really liked Maria, I thought it was great to see an older woman who was actually competent at challenges and strategy.  But I grew to intensely dislike her smugness.  I'm heartened to see that Maria is revealed as a huge vindictive witch.  If she had been in the finals and Charlie was on the jury, I have no doubt that Charlie would have voted for Maria to win, even if she had been the one to get him out.

On 5/23/2024 at 2:29 AM, surfgirl said:

I feel like we were watching a different show because Charlie clearly explained how he got to the final three, and Kenzie just admitted she road coattails and was told whom to vote for. That's not really better examining, it's just admitting she wasn't a mastermind on any vote.

I like Kenzie, but between Charlie and Kenzie, I think Charlie by far had the better game play.  He shouldn't have said he was in the shadow of Maria, he should have said they were a pair that made decisions together.  But on the whole, he explained himself quite well, especially when he said getting Hunter out was a big move.

Kenzie flat out admitted that she didn't have any big moves.  She won on emotion.  The emotion of her being a poor salon owner who was getting married and wanted money to start a family.

 

On 5/23/2024 at 7:25 AM, seacliffsal said:

Because of the shorter season, do players really not care about the aspect of survival?

The only person I remember doing any kind of fishing was Hunter.  After Hunter was out, no more fish.  The crew loves filming these underwater scenes of contestants spearing fish underwater.  How come nobody else bothered?  Even with the rewards, there were still people saying they hadn't gotten to go on any (Ben).  Why didn't anybody fish?

On 5/23/2024 at 12:35 PM, Tachi Rocinante said:

Did Liz actually tell Ben she was a millionaire?

She has said in post-game interviews that she was exaggerating her wealth.  What?  I have no idea what to think about whether she does or does not have money.  Was it her strategy to overinflate her prowess at owning and selling various companies?  How would that help her?

 

On 5/23/2024 at 2:48 PM, eel2178 said:

I was waiting for Jeff to decide to burst her bubble and ask the jury if she had been in the final 3, who would have voted for her just to see no one raise a hand.

I sat through the entire reunion show waiting for this.  I think Ben absolutely should have taken Liz to the final three.  I have no idea why she and he thought that she was such a threat.  When she said she would have beat everyone, the incredulous look and sideeye from Venus said everything.

Charlie and Kenzie would have battled at fire and the winner of that duel would have won unanimously.  Every season, Jeff always does a "what if".  I would have loved for him to ask for votes in a Charlie/Ben/Liz and Kenzie/Ben/Liz scenario.

 

17 hours ago, WatcherUp2 said:

I just realized that Ben and the guy from last season who was in the final three but got no votes (so unmemorable that i cant remember his name) were nearly identical in their time on Survivor: both nice guys, both way too emotional for the show, both ultimately forgettable.

I liked Jake.  Jake was always on the outs, but he survived.  He survived by forming social bonds and because others kept trying to get others out instead of him.  He cried a lot as well but I think Jake played a better game than Ben.  Ben was absolutely useless and I hope we never have to hear about his "night terrors" ever again.

[Nashville]

7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

[Liz] has said in post-game interviews that she was exaggerating her wealth.  What?  I have no idea what to think about whether she does or does not have money.  Was it her strategy to overinflate her prowess at owning and selling various companies?  How would that help her?

In truth, I have only been able to come up with one possibility why Liz might think this was a good strategy: by extolling her intelligence (and beating her money drum as validation), Liz thought others might see her as a potentially more valuable alliance partner.

[eel2178]

17 minutes ago, blackwing said:

When she said she would have beat everyone, the incredulous look and sideeye from Venus said everything.

It wasn't just Venus. Pretty much everyone had a "WTF?" look on their faces.

[eel2178]

19 minutes ago, blackwing said:

The only person I remember doing any kind of fishing was Hunter.  After Hunter was out, no more fish.  The crew loves filming these underwater scenes of contestants spearing fish underwater.  How come nobody else bothered?  Even with the rewards, there were still people saying they hadn't gotten to go on any (Ben).  Why didn't anybody fish?

I'm sure Liz had some ailment that would have caused her to dissolve in salt water.

[eel2178]

25 minutes ago, blackwing said:

When Liz ran back to get the board, I thought that was a good way to ensure that Maria would lose.  As long as Jeffy didn't say it was prohibited.  However, I was shocked when Liz came back with Kenzie's board.  I thought Liz was going to come back with her own board and count the holes on her board and assume they were the same as Kenzie's.

I would have thought there was always a rule against straying outside of your own section of the course, or against touching someone else's stuff. 

In the past they have strayed out of their own sections in order to look at someone else's puzzle which Jeff always announces but never condones.

I had wondered if once Liz had realized she needed her plank to open the lock and decided not to finish her own puzzle but just get her own plank and get the code for her own lock, would that have been considered an acceptable win even though she never finished the puzzle portion of the challenge?

[Chicago Redshirt]

52 minutes ago, blackwing said:

Regarding Liz helping Kenzie at the challenge, as soon as it was apparent that this was happening, my question was whether everyone's boards were the same or whether they all had the same number of geckos on their puzzle.  I thought about it for a second and then decided that they all had to be the same with the same order for the combination, otherwise it wouldn't be fair.

....

She has said in post-game interviews that she was exaggerating her wealth.  What?  I have no idea what to think about whether she does or does not have money.  Was it her strategy to overinflate her prowess at owning and selling various companies?  How would that help her?

I think that there has been past challenges where the combination locks were customized to individual Survivors. I don't think that there would be anything inherently unfair about the boards having different numbers as long as they were roughly in the same ballpark. Like if one had 4 holes and another had 137, that's a fairly large difference in the time to count. But if they all were 30ish, then everyone would have had an equal shake. 

By selling herself as a millionaire and someone who didn't need the money, I suppose she could have expected "People will goat me to the FTC thinking that no one would vote for a current millionaire to get yet another million. And upon making the FTC, I will reveal, 'Surprise, I lied to you all about how rich I am so you would not see me as a threat,' but I actually COULD use the money so vote for me. because my lying strategery was so awesome."

It's just so crazy it might have worked.

[blackwing]

36 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

In the past they have strayed out of their own sections in order to look at someone else's puzzle which Jeff always announces but never condones.

I had wondered if once Liz had realized she needed her plank to open the lock and decided not to finish her own puzzle but just get her own plank and get the code for her own lock, would that have been considered an acceptable win even though she never finished the puzzle portion of the challenge?

I agree that many have wandered over to look at other's puzzles in the past, but that was on the final end stage where they were all on the puzzles, not on the actual course itself.

If Liz had just gotten the numbers from Kenzie's puzzle and solved the combo, I don't think she would have gotten the win, as I think you have to complete each step before advancing to the next step.  Jeffy would have said she didn't finish her puzzle so she wouldn't have been able to advance to the combination lock.

6 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I think that there has been past challenges where the combination locks were customized to individual Survivors. I don't think that there would be anything inherently unfair about the boards having different numbers as long as they were roughly in the same ballpark. Like if one had 4 holes and another had 137, that's a fairly large difference in the time to count. But if they all were 30ish, then everyone would have had an equal shake. 

By selling herself as a millionaire and someone who didn't need the money, I suppose she could have expected "People will goat me to the FTC thinking that no one would vote for a current millionaire to get yet another million. And upon making the FTC, I will reveal, 'Surprise, I lied to you all about how rich I am so you would not see me as a threat,' but I actually COULD use the money so vote for me. because my lying strategery was so awesome."

It's just so crazy it might have worked.

Regarding boards with different number of holes, I think they were all the same here because of the rope that went through them.  If one board had 30 holes and one had 33, there is a slight disadvantage to the person who had 33.  And as we have seen in this game many times, seconds matter.  I suppose it could be argued that the spots are randomly drawn, but still.  Not fair to have chance determine who gets a slight advantage in an immunity challenge.

I think after Liz's helping, for sure the rules about helping are going to be clarified (likely off camera) for the next season.

The only issue with Liz's lying about being a millionaire is that of course everybody lies.  But that would be a lie not necessarily as part of game strategy (e.g. lying to someone about who you are voting out and blindsiding them) but it would a lie aimed at emotional manipulation (e.g. "dude... Grandma died").

If she had lied about being rich so people would drag her to the final three thinking nobody would vote for her because she is rich, and then she said "surprise, I'm actually on welfare, I desperately need the money" I would hope that she gets zero votes because of the emotional manipulation and the fakeness.  Like Hunter said, people want to feel good about who they are giving a million dollars to.  And I would think people wouldn't feel good about giving money to someone whose entire persona was fake.

[eel2178]

21 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

By selling herself as a millionaire and someone who didn't need the money, I suppose she could have expected "People will goat me to the FTC thinking that no one would vote for a current millionaire to get yet another million. And upon making the FTC, I will reveal, 'Surprise, I lied to you all about how rich I am so you would not see me as a threat,' but I actually COULD use the money so vote for me. because my lying strategery was so awesome."

It's just so crazy it might have worked.

I think she is just a delusional pathological liar.

[nlkm9]

On 5/23/2024 at 2:47 AM, Kenzie said:

I've never cared for Maria and tonight I really understood why.

Behind her Earth Mother façade is a very vengeful and petty woman. That wasn't a vote for Kenzie - she couldn't possibly have admired her game - that was a punishment vote against Charlie for daring to vote her out (even when she was plotting his demise.)

I don't think Charlie needs to worry about meeting her precious nephews.

2 things: Maria doing the rock paper scissors after proclaiming she wanted to take the hungriest person--just own it Maria, you wanted Q.

The the "Oh the fire in Kenzies eyes" cmon Maria, you are a petty backstabber with a huge ego,plus you promised charlie you had him. Ugh .

 

I did admire her in challenges but I also dont think 47 is that old, lol.

[DEL901]

The Sia award is no more. https://ew.com/the-sia-survivor-prize-has-finally-come-to-end-8653952