S03.E04: Old Friends

[RachelKM]

27 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The thing is, it's not just the two options of outing Marina or letting Colin suffer his fate. I don't think the show can have it both ways: Either Pen is a sophisticated, resourceful operator who can keep her finger on the pulse of high society, run a highly successful business in secret despite a world of obstacles to that endeavor and stay one step ahead of the most powerful woman in the world, or she is not.

You and I are not getting on this ride again. I know your read as you know mine. 

That said, I very much liked your analysis of Penelope and Colin's development of feelings. It's nice to see someone actually think about what Colin thinks since the show hasn't done as much as it could have to give us his POV.

[Bobcatkitten]

I'm confused why Cressida hasn't married before her third season. 

[PRgal]

48 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I'm confused why Cressida hasn't married before her third season. 

Because men find her annoying and won’t court her after speaking with her once?

[PatsyandEddie]

I’m not. Cressida comes across as rude, arrogant and mean. It may not be who she is inside but it’s the self she chooses to show to society. Cressida is also very beautiful and tall. Men just might be intimidated. 
I think she would be an excellent match for Lord Debling. He wants a practical match which I think Cressida could be. 
 

As for the carriage ride, everything I hoped for and more. 
When they were laughing together at the end, I thought they were just being Luke and Nicola. 

[quarks]

54 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

I'm confused why Cressida hasn't married before her third season. 

Well, so far, we've seen her interested in four men, all four of whom showed more interest in other women: Colin, Prince Fredrich, Lord Featherington 2, and Lord Vegetarian. 

So some of this is just questionable choices on her part. 

[tvmom]

1 hour ago, PatsyandEddie said:

I think she would be an excellent match for Lord Debling. He wants a practical match which I think Cressida could be. 
 

 

I agree. 

[clyo22]

17 hours ago, Chaser said:

I need to do another watch.

I really wish they had held off on revealing Pen to the audience till this season. I think we should have learned it with Colin. I liked Colin’s speech about how he found himself and whatnot but I cringed that himself was basically a manwhore. 

Yes! I was disappointed that he too slept with prostitutes/slept around. We already had Anthony and Benedict behaving like whores. We didn't need Colin to behave like that as well. Not every man is like that today and not every man was like that back then. The idea that he too used women's bodies to feel good about himself and "find" himself is kinda disgusting. I would have been okay with him flirting with and maybe kissing courtisans in clubs but straight brothels! Just no. I don't even want to think about all the STIs he could and should get from such a behaviour. It makes my skin crawl.

Also why are Benedict and Colin such "catch"? They are younger brothers of a viscount. They are noble, yes but untitled and without land or estate of their own. Would they truly be so sought after back then? Is the Bridgerton's fortune really so immense that it will insure a comfortable future for all those sons with no properties of their own?

And why are all the Mamas and girls so desperate? Are the Bridgertons the only one able to afford potential unmarried daughters? I get wanting to marry your daughter off but was it truly such a shame not to find a match during your first season? I'm not a specialist of Regency Era but it seems wrong.

Still I loved it and can't wait for the second part.

[shapeshifter]

7 minutes ago, clyo22 said:

Just no. I don't even want to think about all the STIs he could and should get from such a behaviour. It makes my skin crawl.

I guess it was supposed to titillate the audience? Not me. Ew!
However, I thought they justified the man-whoring around in this episode by having Colin decide to just “watch,” which presumably gave him the anatomical knowledge to satisfy Pen in the carriage.
Since this is already an alternate universe, why not at least declare penicillin to be a boon to brothel businesses? 

[RachelKM]

On 5/19/2024 at 1:27 PM, clyo22 said:

Also why are Benedict and Colin such "catch"? They are younger brothers of a viscount. They are noble, yes but untitled and without land or estate of their own. Would they truly be so sought after back then? Is the Bridgerton's fortune really so immense that it will insure a comfortable future for all those sons with no properties of their own?

They are sought after because they are from a noble family and, if consistent with books, well off in their own rights.

That isn't always true of younger sons. But when a family had sufficient funds, younger sons were provided incomes and sometimes portions of the unentailed portion of the estate. 

On 5/19/2024 at 1:27 PM, clyo22 said:

And why are all the Mamas and girls so desperate? Are the Bridgertons the only one able to afford potential unmarried daughters? I get wanting to marry your daughter off but was it truly such a shame not to find a match during your first season? I'm not a

The Bridgertons are certainly not the only family to be able to comfortably support unmarried daughters. But it was an issue in many families. And even if they could technically afford it, they wouldn't necessarily want the burden. Marrying wealth and hopefully a title was basically the only security for women. If she had a large dowry or some independent money, it was still the only respectable role for a gentleman's daughter.

 

Edited May 21 by RachelKM

[shapeshifter]

When Pen replies to Lord Debling that she reads by that window because she likes the view, I wanted him to gaze out of the window and invite her on a carriage ride to some place barely visible from the window where she would then discover she likes the outdoors too and they would live happily ever after, leaving Colin to wither with syphilis. 
But that would be a Jane Austen novel. 

 

On 5/18/2024 at 7:16 AM, Roseanna said:

…I see Pen to be like an informer during McCarthy age - she has revealed secrets of people she prentends to be friends with and, when she has faced a choice, always put her own ego and money she can earn first.   

A good analogy. So too would be the Salem Witch Trials.
Except isn't Pen supposed to be a teenager? Maybe as old as 20? 
I'd prefer to try her in the Sheltered Juvenile Court of Public Opinion.

More to the point, in her Lady Whistledown publication in episode 3.2 we have her exposing herself to the same ridicule to which she did others, perhaps even more harshly:

• "We know there is one young lady who most certainly wishes her plans had remained in the dark. Penelope Featherington, who was so certain that she would not find a husband on her own, that she had to enlist the help of Mr. Colin Bridgerton. And while we knew Miss Featherington’s marital prospects were slim at best, this recent scandal will certainly make any further hopes disappear.
  …This author would not be surprised if Miss Featherington should wish to return to her familiar shadows once and for all."

Even if Pen wrote this as LWD because "It would have been suspicious if she had not," it still seems like she has paid her debt to society by making herself the object of more ridicule than anyone else yet in the Scandal Sheet — except, of course Eloise, who arguably suffered an even worse public condemnation than ridicule.
However, Pen did in part expose Eloise to protect her because Eloise would not listen to reason and was going to run off with the printer.
Yes, I know, there were differing opinions as to whether Eloise would be "ruined" by this. And we cannot know.
Still, is there no possible forgiveness for Pen?

 

 

On 5/17/2024 at 5:06 PM, RachelKM said:

Okay, then.  I sorta liked Lord Debling's reason for withdrawing his suit.  It wasn't heroic or romantic, it was practical and totally consistent with everything else he has said and done. It was a touch abrupt and made assumptions without discussing it with Pen. But he wasn't wrong and he wasn't cruel... just practical.

I agree and would take it a step further, in that he did not want to marry someone without being sure they would not be miserable caring for a large estate and being alone. 

I guess the door is supposed to be closed on Lord Debling being gay or asexual with his line to Pen:

• Miss Featherington, with the amount of time I will be gone, it is essential I make a match with someone whose affections are not already engaged elsewhere.

which seems to make him and Cressida a good match, since she was already seriously interested in him, even knowing his habits of solitary travel and vegetarianism. 

Although, Francesca would probably be the perfect match for Lord Debling, if not for his wanting his wife to be able to run a large estate.

Edited May 19 by shapeshifter

[quarks]

4 hours ago, clyo22 said:

Also why are Benedict and Colin such "catch"? They are younger brothers of a viscount. They are noble, yes but untitled and without land or estate of their own. Would they truly be so sought after back then? Is the Bridgerton's fortune really so immense that it will insure a comfortable future for all those sons with no properties of their own?

And why are all the Mamas and girls so desperate? Are the Bridgertons the only one able to afford potential unmarried daughters? I get wanting to marry your daughter off but was it truly such a shame not to find a match during your first season? I'm not a specialist of Regency Era but it seems wrong.

Still I loved it and can't wait for the second part.

So, quick disclaimer: I don't think that any of this show is remotely historically accurate, so I'm just going to focus on what's happening in the show, not on what happened in the real Regency England.

The show has frequently suggested that the Bridgerton fortune is really that immense - they are essentially equivalent to a billionaire family from today. That seems less true for the other families on the show, especially the Featheringtons, who always seem to be financially stressed. 

In terms of how shameful it was not to find a match in the first season - well, Daphne was concerned about that in her first season, but since then, the people who seem most focused on this are Penelope, Cressida, and Cressida's mother, so I'm not sure how much of this a real thing on the show, and how much of this is Penelope and Cressida having horrible mothers. 

Though, on a quick historical note, Lady Harriet Cavendish did not find a husband in her first season in 1803. Six seasons later, in 1809, she married her aunt's lover (yes, really) and adopted the two illegitimate children of her husband and aunt (again, yes really).

Surprisingly enough, the marriage was happy. So, you know, enjoy a few more seasons, Cressida and Penelope! Accept a scandalous proposal! It just might work out! Maybe!

 

Edited May 20 by quarks

[Constant Viewer]

17 hours ago, Roseanna said:

 

In my favorite novel the father says to his daughter after telling that the man she wants to marry is no good: "It would better to make you cry now than to let you cry for the rest of your life. - - But you yourself are responsible for it, and I suppose you have the right to choose your burden."

Could you give the name of the book please?

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess the door is supposed to be closed on Lord Debling being gay or asexual with his line to Pen:

• Miss Featherington, with the amount of time I will be gone, it is essential I make a match with someone whose affections are not already engaged elsewhere.

I never got the impression that he was gay or asex.  I think part of the "practical" match that he wanted was someone that would be faithful to their marriage. Whether from a personal ego standpoint, or not wanting scandal, I'm not quite sure, maybe a little of both.   Being away for a year or more at a time he would naturally think about his wife eventually being unfaithful, but I don't think he wanted to be in that position where he had to think about it from day one.  (Thus, the "already" in that sentence.)  And, he possibly saw in Pen a woman who so far was unwanted by society men, so he wouldn't have to worry about that.  Colin's scene on the dance floor showed otherwise. 

How will Violet feel about being in-laws with the Featherington's?  I always got the impression that was not a situation she wanted.  I had expected in her stairway talk with Colin, if she wanted to give him the nod, she would have said something like "Penelope is a lovely girl.  Any family would be lucky to have her."  But nope. 

 

 

 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

More to the point, in her Lady Whistledown publication in episode 3.2 we have her exposing herself to the same ridicule to which she did others, perhaps even more harshly:

• "We know there is one young lady who most certainly wishes her plans had remained in the dark. Penelope Featherington, who was so certain that she would not find a husband on her own, that she had to enlist the help of Mr. Colin Bridgerton. And while we knew Miss Featherington’s marital prospects were slim at best, this recent scandal will certainly make any further hopes disappear.
  …This author would not be surprised if Miss Featherington should wish to return to her familiar shadows once and for all."

Even if Pen wrote this as LWD because "It would have been suspicious if she had not," it still seems like she has paid her debt to society by making herself the object of more ridicule than anyone else yet in the Scandal Sheet — except, of course Eloise, who arguably suffered an even worse public condemnation than ridicule.
However, Pen did in part expose Eloise to protect her because Eloise would not listen to reason and was going to run off with the printer.
Yes, I know, there were differing opinions as to whether Eloise would be "ruined" by this. And we cannot know.
Still, is there no possible forgiveness for Pen?

Speaking for myself, the path for my forgiving Pen involves 1. an acknowledgement from her of the wrong she has done, preferably a sincere one that is not under duress 2.some amount of ownership in this wrong 3. some effort to make amends.

We have seen no sign that Pen regrets being Lady Whistledown, generally speaking. It seems to me that she enjoys wielding that power, the money, the fame, and enjoying the freedom to clap back at the snobby society that dismisses her because she's short, thicc, opinionated, nerdy, etc.  She has to know the effect that she has as LW. She has to know that she's destroyed reputations and even lives.

Yet we haven't seen much remorse from her about her actions themselves (in fairness, her crying after she was in the process of outing Marina as already pregnant could be read as remorse, or it could be other things, like sadness that she was losing Colin to a skank). She's mainly shown regret over the consequences of her actions, but continues to stand by the actions as proper.  Exposing Marina as a liar and setting her and her baby up for poverty was a necessary evil in her mind to save Colin. Exposing Eloise's lower-class boy toy was a necessary evil in her mind to convince Queen Charlotte that Eloise wasn't LW. other than at nearly being caught, or that she had to do shitty things to protect her secrecy.)

But as far as we've seen, most of what she seems to care about is  to the extent LW-related stuff might blow back on her or the people she cares about. She's sad because she hurt Colin in order to save him (I don't think she cares that she hurt Marina or almost induced her to get an abortion). She's sad because she opened Eloise open to ridicule. Maybe she deeply regrets publicizing the scandals around Daphne or non-Bridgertons. But the fact that she keeps on publishing and that we've not seen her seem at al conflicted about LW has me thinking she doesn't.

We didn't have to see the previews for the second half to guess that there will come a reckoning where Colin learns that Pen is LW. It's just how the genre works, and we have seen it in the two previous seasons (as well as in Queen Charlotte) that one of the lovers has maintained a secret (or several) that has shaped them since childhood and has them acting like an ass, and it's only through the secret coming out that they change their behavior and reach true love.

Simon was focused on getting revenge on his dickhead dad by ending the family line, so he almost wrecked the great thing he had with Daphne by pulling out and not talking to her about a huge part of her life. He gains forgiveness by coming clean, getting over his issues and having the kids that they both come to want. 

Anthony is stung by his dad's premature bee-related death and how it made him so traumatized and so forced to be a man prematurely that he wouldn't let himself get close to anyone. The solution is for him to realize that love is worth taking those risks for.

George has been plagued with fits of madness and the burdens of being a monarch his entire life. The solution is to admit that to Charlotte and let her help ease those burdens.

I suppose we in the second half are going to find out more about why Pen became LW in the first place and why she keeps it going knowing how much harm she can and actually does do. Given the conceit of the show, though, it seems unlikely that she will hang up being LW, which would be the most straightforward way to make amends/mitigating harm. Maybe the show will surprise me, though.

I don't see her writing poorly about herself in this context as being anywhere on the road to redemption because 1. she did it as a tactic to throw suspicion off of her being LW 2. She didn't say anything that most people didn't already know about her: that she wasn't a hot prospect, that she had enlisted Colin to help her find a man and that she's probably embarrassed 3. What she said was actually pretty sympathetic. 

Quote

I guess the door is supposed to be closed on Lord Debling being gay or asexual with his line to Pen:

Miss Featherington, with the amount of time I will be gone, it is essential I make a match with someone whose affections are not already engaged elsewhere.

which seems to make him and Cressida a good match, since she was already seriously interested in him, even knowing his habits of solitary travel and vegetarianism. 

Although, Francesca would probably be the perfect match for Lord Debling, if not for his wanting his wife to be able to run a large estate.

 

I don't know if the door is closed or not. I think that Lord Debling is coded as queer in the non-sexual sense of that word by being a vegetarian. 

I also think that it is plausible that he is marrying only because society expects him to and has no interest in sex, or sex with a woman. Penelope can't be a very good beard for him if she's pining for Colin. And even if he has no desire to sleep with Pen, he DOES have a desire to not be a cuckold or to have gossip about his wife having a thing fro someone else spread throughout the countryside. 

He doesn't seem to be contemplating a wife who will be with him, having sex for pleasure or love. All he seems to want is a wife who will allow him to pursue his passions without interference and who will pop out a son or two.

Note: I  didn't really think of him as gay/ace before responding to this comment, and I still don't, but I wouldn't say the possibility is ruled out either.

Edited May 20 by Chicago Redshirt

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Except isn't Pen supposed to be a teenager? Maybe as old as 20? 
I'd prefer to try her in the Sheltered Juvenile Court of Public Opinion.

Pen's age is a huge problem - Lady Whistleton doesn't write like a teenager.

More about in the book section. 

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

More to the point, in her Lady Whistledown publication in episode 3.2 we have her exposing herself to the same ridicule to which she did others, perhaps even more harshly:

• "We know there is one young lady who most certainly wishes her plans had remained in the dark. Penelope Featherington, who was so certain that she would not find a husband on her own, that she had to enlist the help of Mr. Colin Bridgerton. And while we knew Miss Featherington’s marital prospects were slim at best, this recent scandal will certainly make any further hopes disappear.
  …This author would not be surprised if Miss Featherington should wish to return to her familiar shadows once and for all."

Even if Pen wrote this as LWD because "It would have been suspicious if she had not," it still seems like she has paid her debt to society by making herself the object of more ridicule than anyone else yet in the Scandal Sheet — except, of course Eloise, who arguably suffered an even worse public condemnation than ridicule.

I think there is a greater problem there. Pen is presented to be proud about her writings as Lady Whistleton where she accepts the society's prejudices and double standars. She ridicules only women, not men.

But of course the show is based on that double morality too: a hero has affairs and goes to brothels until he meets and marries a virgin bride and we are going to believe that he stays a faithful husband.

Edited May 20 by Roseanna
corrected two letters

[Roseanna]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

However, I thought they justified the man-whoring around in this episode by having Colin decide to just “watch,” which presumably gave him the anatomical knowledge to satisfy Pen in the carriage.

I think it was rather a theme common in romances: when the hero who used to sleep around is no more interested (Colin seemed even be unable) to have sex with other women, it's a sure sign that he has fallen in love with the heroine.  

[Fake Jan Brady]

On 5/18/2024 at 1:44 PM, maddie965 said:

Benedict seems to have no personality at all in this show. Am I crazy, or was it implied that he was gay in the first season? Wasn't there a teacher/mentor story related to painting? Or did I dream that up?

It was gay baiting at its finest. The ads for the first season cut from Benedict to the back of a naked man [who later turned out to be the boytoy of the artist guy]. I think after Downton people expected a gay character.

As for this season, I'm still not sure where Francesca came from. Was she in the previous seasons? Or is she the Cousin Oliver of Bridgerton? Why does she look older than Eloise? She's very lovely but surely there must be some bitchy backlash from The Ton that the Bridgertons have produced two diamonds in three seasons.

The romantic dramas of Penelope and Colin are all well and good, but it's the Penelope/Eloise relationship I care most about.

[clyo22]

8 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think there is a greater problem there. Pen is presented to be proud about her writings as Lady Whistleton where she accepts the society's prejudices and double standars. She ridicules only women, not men.

But of course the show is based on that double morality too: a hero has affairs and goes to brothels until he meets and marries a virgin bride and we are going to believe that he stays a faithful husband.

I think that if she ridiculed men, she would be in deep trouble. It would be akin to subversion. I don't think anyone would feel safe to be seen even reading her pieces. I hope that by the end of the series, they address it and she indeed writes about their society's prejudices and double standard.

I see Pen's actions with more forgiving eyes. I am under the impression that she writes about gossips most people already know about. It's like she's a blogger going to every parties in town and making sure that those who missed it know everything that went on. I thought that "almost ruining" Daphné in season one was an accident. What did she even write about Daphné? Wasn't it only that Anthony was protecting her like a bear and allowed no man to actually court her and that he felt that no man was good enough for her ? I'm paraphrasing but wasn't it also the truth? She didn't lie! And how was she supposed to know that it would have the effect of pushing men away from Daphné?

The only real secrets she revealed are Marina's pregnancy and schemes and Eloise's sneaking out and paper boy. And both secrets she revealed because she felt she had no other choice.

When it comes to the case of Marina, I don't blame her. She had a though decision to make and she chose her best friend and the person she loved. She tried to help Marina, Lady Featherington tried to help Marina but she wanted the pretty and rich Colin Bridgerton. That's on her. And also Colin could have still married her if he wanted to. After all someone did marry her in those circumstances. Rich and powerful people made the law back then (they still do). If he wanted to, if they all wanted to, they could have accepted her and forced society to accept her as well. Pen knew him enough to know that he wouldn't. Also Pen's actions didn't almost cause Marina to have an abortion. Marina tried and failed to have an abortion and that is how the family found out that she was pregnant.

As for Eloise, well she was embarassed and "almost ruined" but had she continued with her romance with paper boy or had her involvement with those human rights activist (I don't remember exactly what they were) deepened, then she would have been truly ruined.

I choose to believe that she has done only what is talked about in the show and therefore that she has not ruined or almost ruined anybody else.

I still think she should apologise and make amends for the harm her gossips caused but I don't see her as some sophisticated spy or informant.

 

Edited May 20 by clyo22
punctuation

[dubstepford wife]

She has kind of ridiculed men.  She has written about the impropriety of both Anthony last season, and Colin this season.  She knows her audience though.  She knows that the vast majority of LW readers are women, so she's harder on the women.  It's catty and gossipy but it is what it is.  Most readers of celebrity gossip pages and magazines these days are women, so there has always been an element of internalized misogyny to girl-on-girl gossip.

I like Penelope but she's a complicated character.  She's not all good or all bad, and just because she's the protagonist of this season doesn't mean she's a good guy.  Plenty of protagonists in literature have been bad people -- all protagonist means is you're the main character, it doesn't mean you're good. 

Deep down I think she wants to be nice, but she very much embodies the adage, "Hurt people hurt people."  She's been on the sidelines, laughed at, ridiculed, and abused, for her whole life, by both society and her family, so when she has the opportunity to dish out some ridicule and abuse of her own via LW, she relishes it.  It's petty, she clearly enjoys it, and I agree with those who say she took it too far with Marina, but within the broader context of who she is and what she has been through, it's understandable that she'd want to get some revenge.  Not good, but understandable.

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, chaifan said:

Being away for a year or more at a time he would naturally think about his wife eventually being unfaithful, but I don't think he wanted to be in that position where he had to think about it from day one.  (Thus, the "already" in that sentence.)  And, he possibly saw in Pen a woman who so far was unwanted by society men, so he wouldn't have to worry about that.  Colin's scene on the dance floor showed otherwise. 

Yes, Colin made him suspicious. However, I think it's rather too simple that if a wife loves somebody else, she would be unfaithful. In Mansfield Jane Austen makes clear the difference in characater and principles between Fanny and her cousin Maria. Also the heroine in The tenant of Wildfell Hall by Anne Bronte wasn't unfaithful although her husband constanly was.

Of course, this show presents love as as an invincible passion that can't be resisted.   

[Roseanna]

15 minutes ago, dubstepford wife said:

She has kind of ridiculed men.  She has written about the impropriety of both Anthony last season, and Colin this season.  She knows her audience though.  She knows that the vast majority of LW readers are women, so she's harder on the women.  It's catty and gossipy but it is what it is.  Most readers of celebrity gossip pages and magazines these days are women, so there has always been an element of internalized misogyny to girl-on-girl gossip.

I like Penelope but she's a complicated character.  She's not all good or all bad, and just because she's the protagonist of this season doesn't mean she's a good guy.  Plenty of protagonists in literature have been bad people -- all protagonist means is you're the main character, it doesn't mean you're good. 

Deep down I think she wants to be nice, but she very much embodies the adage, "Hurt people hurt people."  She's been on the sidelines, laughed at, ridiculed, and abused, for her whole life, by both society and her family, so when she has the opportunity to dish out some ridicule and abuse of her own via LW, she relishes it.  It's petty, she clearly enjoys it, and I agree with those who say she took it too far with Marina, but within the broader context of who she is and what she has been through, it's understandable that she'd want to get some revenge.  Not good, but understandable.

A very good analysis that made me more forgiving towards Pen.

It's true that women could, and still can, be very cruel to other women.  Especiually women who regarded themselves morally superior, tended to watch other women's morality - and they often forgot that they could have been in the same situation as Marina if the man they have made love before marriage hadn't been decent. 

Also, the wives and mothers tended to blame other women for their husband and son's deed - even when servants had no power against their masters. 

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

…We didn't have to see the previews for the second half to guess that there will come a reckoning where Colin learns that Pen is LW. It's just how the genre works, and we have seen it in the two previous seasons (as well as in Queen Charlotte) that one of the lovers has maintained a secret (or several) that has shaped them since childhood and has them acting like an ass, and it's only through the secret coming out that they change their behavior and reach true love.

Simon was focused on getting revenge on his dickhead dad by ending the family line, so he almost wrecked the great thing he had with Daphne by pulling out and not talking to her about a huge part of her life. He gains forgiveness by coming clean, getting over his issues and having the kids that they both come to want. 

Anthony is stung by his dad's premature bee-related death and how it made him so traumatized and so forced to be a man prematurely that he wouldn't let himself get close to anyone. The solution is for him to realize that love is worth taking those risks for.

George has been plagued with fits of madness and the burdens of being a monarch his entire life. The solution is to admit that to Charlotte and let her help ease those burdens.

I suppose we in the second half are going to find out more about why Pen became LW in the first place and why she keeps it going knowing how much harm she can and actually does do. Given the conceit of the show, though, it seems unlikely that she will hang up being LW, which would be the most straightforward way to make amends/mitigating harm. Maybe the show will surprise me, though.…

Thank you, @Chicago Redshirt, for this summary of how the previous seasons predict and explain the current season's plot arc.

 

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Maybe she deeply regrets publicizing the scandals around Daphne or non-Bridgertons. But the fact that she keeps on publishing and that we've not seen her seem at al conflicted about LW has me thinking she doesn't.

It's like Pen's LWD persona is an addiction.
If Pen's life was a 7-season saga of character development, I'd like to see her mature to where she abandons the LWD Scandal Sheets and publishes novels, perhaps under a pseudonym.
In a timeline diverging from the 4 remaining episodes that are destined to culminate in a match with Colin, Pen could be quite fulfilled publishing novels while married to Lord Debling.

Dare we dear readers hope for at least an afterward voiceover by Julie Andrews telling us of Pen's future success as a novelist?

[Ohiopirate02]

16 hours ago, clyo22 said:

And why are all the Mamas and girls so desperate? Are the Bridgertons the only one able to afford potential unmarried daughters? I get wanting to marry your daughter off but was it truly such a shame not to find a match during your first season? I'm not a specialist of Regency Era but it seems wrong.

 

It was not a shame to have a second season, having a third is borderline.  Most girls did not find a match in their first season and it was not expected.  The first season was for establishing yourself and figuring out the lay of the land because these girls went from school room and governesses to being out in society.  They are putting all of those lessons in etiquette and whatnot into practice.  They also do get to enjoy themselves for a bit, dancing and innocently flirting with men, enjoying the delights of the season at the various balls and theatre outings, and meeting other young ladies of the Ton. 

Also, the Season was really a short period of time when all of the aristocracy was in London due to Parliament meeting.  Then they dispersed into the countryside where the men took care of their estates and house parties happened.  Engagements happened all throughout the calendar year, not just in the Season.  One could meet a guy in London during the Season, and then get engaged to him later in the year after meeting him in the countryside and exchanging letters.  

[braziliangirl]

Didn't LW helped Daphne with Berbrooke? I honestly don't think that much about LW/Pen because there is so much suspension of disbelief to enjoy Bridgerton that I'm like: sure. of course. why not? I find it hard to take it seriously the "she ruined x lives" because all of the protagonists (even Marina) landed on their feet. It's a land of no consequences: Anthony married his sister fiancee but the queen was ok with it so scandal forgotten...before that they can't talk alone but having sex outdoors? oh sure. lol

My take is that Pen getting outed as LW will help Portia covering up why they have money now. Or at least will be tied with the Featherington storyline. 

Edited May 20 by braziliangirl

[quarks]

7 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think there is a greater problem there. Pen is presented to be proud about her writings as Lady Whistleton where she accepts the society's prejudices and double standars. She ridicules only women, not men.

 

Pen is less interested in rebelling against Society than Eloise is, true. But in season one, Pen's ridicule of Lord Berbrooke is the final straw that drives him out of town, saving Daphne from that marriage. 

In the last episode of season two, Pen gossips about and mocks a number of men, including Lord Fife, which is precisely how Eloise finally figures it out - as she says, those are precisely the things Lady Whistledown has been saying about members of the Ton.

In the first episode of this season, Penelope mocks Colin Bridgerton.

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes, Colin made him suspicious. However, I think it's rather too simple that if a wife loves somebody else, she would be unfaithful. In Mansfield Jane Austen makes clear the difference in characater and principles between Fanny and her cousin Maria. Also the heroine in The tenant of Wildfell Hall by Anne Bronte wasn't unfaithful although her husband constanly was.

 

 

In 1812 - just one year before the start of this show - the married Lady Caroline Lamb had a very public, very well known affair with Lord Byron; the following year, 1813 - the start of this show - she pursued him relentlessly in public. It was a huge scandal. In 1815, the still married Lady Caroline Lamb followed this up with another very public, well known affair with the Duke of Wellington. 

Her married sister-in-law, Lady Cowper, began what was to be a very, very long and not all that discreet affair with Lord Palmerston (later the Prime Minister) in 1809; her daughter Emily, born in 1810, was probably his child, as speculated by many people at the time.  Another child, William, may have been fathered by a third man.

Lord Cowper was still alive during all of this.

In the show, we know about the married Lady Granville, who is sleeping around with her husband's full knowledge and permission, and it's pretty heavily implied that Lord Fife has slept with a couple of married women. 

I don't know how common this was, and I agree that it's too simple to assume that a wife would be unfaithful just because she has feelings for someone else. But Lord Vegetarian does have some examples to point to. 

37 minutes ago, braziliangirl said:

I find it hard to take it seriously the "she ruined x lives" because all of the protagonists (even Marina) landed on their feet.

And yeah, this. Marina ended up in a lovely home, with a husband who knew her past when they got married, and says she's content. Happy, no, but to be fair, Sir George died less than two years ago, and I assume she's still mourning him on some level. And she just spent an evening listening to Sir Philip and Colin drone on about Greece and plants, which was not, for her, particularly entertaining.

Eloise is still welcome at Society events.

Though we have seen two people apparently completely ostracized from the society. Lord Berbrooke in the first season, and Lord Featherington 2 in the second season. Both men, their exiles orchestrated by women. 

[Conotocarious]

4 hours ago, dubstepford wife said:

She has kind of ridiculed men.  She has written about the impropriety of both Anthony last season, and Colin this season.  She knows her audience though.  She knows that the vast majority of LW readers are women, so she's harder on the women.  It's catty and gossipy but it is what it is.  Most readers of celebrity gossip pages and magazines these days are women, so there has always been an element of internalized misogyny to girl-on-girl gossip.

I like Penelope but she's a complicated character.  She's not all good or all bad, and just because she's the protagonist of this season doesn't mean she's a good guy.  Plenty of protagonists in literature have been bad people -- all protagonist means is you're the main character, it doesn't mean you're good. 

Deep down I think she wants to be nice, but she very much embodies the adage, "Hurt people hurt people."  She's been on the sidelines, laughed at, ridiculed, and abused, for her whole life, by both society and her family, so when she has the opportunity to dish out some ridicule and abuse of her own via LW, she relishes it.  It's petty, she clearly enjoys it, and I agree with those who say she took it too far with Marina, but within the broader context of who she is and what she has been through, it's understandable that she'd want to get some revenge.  Not good, but understandable.

And that also is what makes me much more interested in her story. I am not into perfect characters who always have pure motivations, and no other layers beyond. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, Fake Jan Brady said:

As for this season, I'm still not sure where Francesca came from. Was she in the previous seasons? Or is she the Cousin Oliver of Bridgerton? Why does she look older than Eloise? She's very lovely but surely there must be some bitchy backlash from The Ton that the Bridgertons have produced two diamonds in three seasons.

Love the Cousin Oliver reference, especially given your screen name, lol.

There was another actress who played Francesca I want to say in the first season but she didn't have anything to do, and then there was a throwaway line to the effect of her being away at school or on holiday or something for the next season.

The Queen has decided to call Francesca not a "diamond" but a "sparkler," but point taken. 

4 hours ago, clyo22 said:

I see Pen's actions with more forgiving eyes. I am under the impression that she writes about gossips most people already know about. It's like she's a blogger going to every parties in town and making sure that those who missed it know everything that went on. 

I would say that there is a mix of reporting on things relatively widely known, and on "breaking news," so to speak, that few people know. Keep in mind that we are only seeing a small sliver of what I have to assume is at least a monthly endeavor, and probably more like a weekly one. Maybe I'll do a rewatch of S1 and 2 while waiting for the second part of this season to drop and talk about what she has said/done in the Lady Whistledown - Friend or Foe thread.

 

4 hours ago, dubstepford wife said:

Deep down I think she wants to be nice, but she very much embodies the adage, "Hurt people hurt people."  She's been on the sidelines, laughed at, ridiculed, and abused, for her whole life, by both society and her family, so when she has the opportunity to dish out some ridicule and abuse of her own via LW, she relishes it.  It's petty, she clearly enjoys it, and I agree with those who say she took it too far with Marina, but within the broader context of who she is and what she has been through, it's understandable that she'd want to get some revenge.  Not good, but understandable.

I literally thought about using the phrase "Hurt people hurt people" in my earlier post. So jinx, you owe me a Coke.

I still am less forgiving of Pen than most, but who knows, maybe the second half of the season will do more to move me toward her camp.

 

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Thank you, @Chicago Redshirt, for this summary of how the previous seasons predict and explain the current season's plot arc.

 

It's like Pen's LWD persona is an addiction.
If Pen's life was a 7-season saga of character development, I'd like to see her mature to where she abandons the LWD Scandal Sheets and publishes novels, perhaps under a pseudonym.
In a timeline diverging from the 4 remaining episodes that are destined to culminate in a match with Colin, Pen could be quite fulfilled publishing novels while married to Lord Debling.

Dare we dear readers hope for at least an afterward voiceover by Julie Andrews telling us of Pen's future success as a novelist?

You're welcome! And I do see her as a potential novelist.

I was thinking ... the fact that the voiceover for LW is done by Julie Andrews gives it more sophistication and weight than if it were just in Pen's voice. I think there is something to the notion of Pen being addicted to being LW, and maybe it jeopardizing her relationship with her love will be her "rock bottom."

[RachelKM]

10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think there is a greater problem there. Pen is presented to be proud about her writings as Lady Whistleton where she accepts the society's prejudices and double standars. She ridicules only women, not men.

This isn't true.  She straight up outed the failure of one lord to care for his child with a former maid, outing him as both a predator regarding his staff and also an abandoner of "his responsibilities" as it would be termed (no would care too much about him not being a parent to his child).  He was the guy that Anthony was trying to pair Daphne with and who accosted her in the gardens.

I think there was some things about Anthony last season too, though I can't be sure. 

We only hear the portions of LW that apply to the central characters on this show, most of whom are female.  But with at least two issues a week, the 5-10 lines we hear in voice over is certainly not the extent of her writing. 

It is true that, irrespective of who she writes about, it will have more impact on the women because society is more harsh and unforgiving of women. 

Edited May 20 by RachelKM

[Atlanta]

21 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess it was supposed to titillate the audience? Not me. Ew!
However, I thought they justified the man-whoring around in this episode by having Colin decide to just “watch,” which presumably gave him the anatomical knowledge to satisfy Pen in the carriage.
Since this is already an alternate universe, why not at least declare penicillin to be a boon to brothel businesses? 

We need Claire from Outlander to concoct some for the prostitutes and johns. 

And whoever referenced syphilis, I will now think of Colin as ConPhilis. LOL

[quarks]

One minor thing that bugs me about the Lord Vegetarian storyline: it's not just his fear that if he leaves his wife alone for three years, she'll probably be unfaithful to him, especially if she has a prior attachment. I mean, yes, I realize that I just listed a couple of historical examples of unfaithful wives, but it's still a kinda insulting thing to say to Penelope.

No, it's the fact that he's not looking for a woman who would be willing to go with him on this Northwest Passage or Save the Great Awk thing - even though this show is set during the very same period where Lady Hester Stanhope was starting her various travel adventures.  (She initially left England in 1810). Which is to say, again, this wasn't usual, but it happened.

Last season, Lord Featherington 2 even suggested that the entire Featherington household head off to the United States with him. They didn't, but at least he acknowledged that women could travel.

I have no idea if either Cressida or Penelope would be willing to travel to the Northwest Passage or not, but, you know, Lord Vegetarian, ask!

[Ohiopirate02]

16 minutes ago, Atlanta said:

We need Claire from Outlander to concoct some for the prostitutes and johns. 

And whoever referenced syphilis, I will now think of Colin as ConPhilis. LOL

Look, romance novels exist in their own little fantasy world.  A world where STIs may not exist, a world where the 3rd son of a Viscount does not want for money and is not looking for an heiress, a world where pregnancies happen when the creator of the decides, a world where there is an infinite number of non-royal dukes, etc.  It all depends on the story the author wants to write, some authors do give their villains STIs, but never the hero.  They can be a rake who has bedded every willing lass in a 50 mile radius, and they suffer no ill-effects.  It's all a part of the fantasy, and in the world Julia Quinn created there is little to no gritty realism.  

[tennisgurl]

On 5/19/2024 at 11:25 AM, Bobcatkitten said:

I'm confused why Cressida hasn't married before her third season. 

They might be scared of getting lost in her puffy sleeves?

For real though, Cressida's mean girl act is probably very off-putting for prospective suiters in a society where manners are everything. Sure you can be mean and snobby, but you cant be so obvious about it. If a suiter is looking for a wife to run the families social calendar, entertain important guests, and one day help their children make good matches, they need someone charming who can easily navigate all of societies rules with a pleasant smile, not someone who cant go a day without a snarky comment who seems like she's a minute from pouring pigs blood one some other debutants dress. 

We can now gather that a lot of this is a coping mechanism against her cold upbringing, but I can see why people are turned off, despite how pretty she is. 

Edited May 20 by tennisgurl

[chaifan]

With all the references to Penelope being a book worm, her love for romance novels, her remarking on Colin's writing style, etc., this episode I also felt like they're setting her up to become a novelist down the road.  Presumably under a pen name.  (ha ha, pen name, get it?)  I haven't read the books, so I have no idea if this is even remotely accurate or not.  But it would make sense. 

Here's where Pen remaining Lady W confuses me...  I said upthread that I'd love for the LW mantle to be passed along, and that would make sense in the Bridgerton world as I know it (on screen, not books).  Each season we've jettisoned the love match from the previous season.  It would track that next season we would not see Colin and Pen.  But how does LW continue if that happens?  If Eloise becomes the next LW, that would work.  But otherwise, Nicola  has to be locked into a contract for what, 4 or 5 more seasons? 

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

With all the references to Penelope being a book worm, her love for romance novels, her remarking on Colin's writing style, etc., this episode I also felt like they're setting her up to become a novelist down the road.  Presumably under a pen name.  (ha ha, pen name, get it?)  I haven't read the books, so I have no idea if this is even remotely accurate or not.  But it would make sense. 

Here's where Pen remaining Lady W confuses me...  I said upthread that I'd love for the LW mantle to be passed along, and that would make sense in the Bridgerton world as I know it (on screen, not books).  Each season we've jettisoned the love match from the previous season.  It would track that next season we would not see Colin and Pen.  But how does LW continue if that happens?  If Eloise becomes the next LW, that would work.  But otherwise, Nicola  has to be locked into a contract for what, 4 or 5 more seasons? 

 

The Internet tells me that Bridgerton already has a fourth season lined up, and that Shonda Rhimes has a potential vision for up to seven. (Although if each Bridgerton gets a season to themselves, that would be 8, and there have been 8 books).

I think Queen Charlotte shows that the soapy anachronistic goodness does not necessarily need a LW to commentate on what is going on, or to have a subplot.

I also hope that future seasons do revisit some of the couples from previous seasons, even if it's just in cameo form. 

[quarks]

Filming for season four of Bridgerton starts next month. 

Mild season 4 casting spoiler (spoiler tagging just to be absolutely safe)

 

Spoiler

Nicola Coughlin and Luke Newton have confirmed that they will be back in season four as Penelope and Colin. My guess is that, like Daphne in season 2 and Kate and Anthony in season 3, they will only be appearing in a few episodes, but that's just a guess on my part.

 

Shondaland representatives have told media outlets that they are hoping for seven or eight seasons, but it's not at all clear to me that Netflix shares this hope. 

[andromeda331]

I wonder how she got started as LW. Everyone was reading her stuff in the first season. The first episode had Daphne and others reading it. They were happy when it was good news. She did help get Daphne out of that horrible marriage.

I think she thought she was doing the same thing for Colin as with Daphne. Saving Colin out of being tricked into marriage. She tried talking Marina out of it and tried talking to Colin but she didn't tell him. Maybe she couldn't tell him. But unlike with Daphne there was another option, telling Eloise or Violet. When Penelope went crying to Eloise I thought that's what she did. But it wasn't. I'm glad she told the truth but not how she did it. It wasn't the same as Daphne who was trapped by rules of society with no alternative. Penelope wasn't.  

 

 

[mledawn]

On 5/17/2024 at 11:38 AM, dubstepford wife said:

And speaking of Cressida: this is my favorite season for costumes simply because of Cressida.  Her outfits are bonkers with all the over-the-top shoulder pieces and wacky hairdos and I am loving every second of it.

Cressida's outfits remind me of Effie from Hunger Games.

On 5/17/2024 at 9:08 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

One of the most anticipated Polin scene is here! “Give Me Everything” (by Pitbull ft Ne-Yo, Afrojack, Nayer) is an interesting song choice for the steamy carriage scene.

When the music started it took me a minute but I loved this cover! I have always enjoyed the way the show has modern songs as classical covers. This one is a particular gem. I immediately YouTubed it to listen again.

[Chicago Redshirt]

17 hours ago, quarks said:

One minor thing that bugs me about the Lord Vegetarian storyline: it's not just his fear that if he leaves his wife alone for three years, she'll probably be unfaithful to him, especially if she has a prior attachment. I mean, yes, I realize that I just listed a couple of historical examples of unfaithful wives, but it's still a kinda insulting thing to say to Penelope.

No, it's the fact that he's not looking for a woman who would be willing to go with him on this Northwest Passage or Save the Great Awk thing - even though this show is set during the very same period where Lady Hester Stanhope was starting her various travel adventures.  (She initially left England in 1810). Which is to say, again, this wasn't usual, but it happened.

Last season, Lord Featherington 2 even suggested that the entire Featherington household head off to the United States with him. They didn't, but at least he acknowledged that women could travel.

I have no idea if either Cressida or Penelope would be willing to travel to the Northwest Passage or not, but, you know, Lord Vegetarian, ask!

It could be that Lord Vegetarian isn't just thinking of "I'm afraid of being cheated on" or "I'm afraid of a scandal." It could also be he's thinking "I want my wife to be happy, and she's not going to be if she is always wondering 'What if?' about a potential lover and I'm away for years at a time."

As to the travel thing, it could be that he doesn't extend an invite because 1. he knows that it would be a rare lady indeed who would be willing to travel outside of England 2. he simply wants/needs someone to take care of his huge tracts of land rather than a partner 3. he wants to be free to f--- around with the natives of wherever he's going. 

I tend to see LV as kind and pragmatic so I'm going with 1. 

[HighQueenEB]

Didn't Lord Vegetarian (love that nickname!) tell Pen that he couldn't promise to ever fully love her because he loved his first wife so deeply and made it clear he wasn't over her death?  I could be misremembering but, if so, I can see how he may have recognized that Penelope may not remain faithful to him should they marry because he could see she was as deeply in love with Colin as he was with his dead wife.  Along with that, it also would debunk the notion mentioned upthread that vegetarian is code for gay.

As far as the future of LW...  My wild theory is that Colin quickly forgives Pen and becomes her partner in scandal sheet crime-writing.  That would give the show runners a perfect reason to keep them both around for however many seasons the show winds up going.

[lovett1979]

On 5/20/2024 at 2:38 PM, quarks said:

One minor thing that bugs me about the Lord Vegetarian storyline: it's not just his fear that if he leaves his wife alone for three years, she'll probably be unfaithful to him, especially if she has a prior attachment. I mean, yes, I realize that I just listed a couple of historical examples of unfaithful wives, but it's still a kinda insulting thing to say to Penelope.

I don't think his concern was regarding scandal or unfaithfulness. It was that he wanted a wife who would be happy and content to be in a loveless marriage with an absent husband, not for his sake but for hers. And Pen seemed to be that person (remember, when she first decided to actually try to get married it wasn't because she wanted to find love, it was because she wanted to get away from her mother's and/or sisters' realm). But learning about Pen's desires for Colin showed Lord Vegetarian that what he was offering would not be happy or fulfilling for her, so he decided not to offer it.

[Ohiopirate02]

48 minutes ago, lovett1979 said:

I don't think his concern was regarding scandal or unfaithfulness. It was that he wanted a wife who would be happy and content to be in a loveless marriage with an absent husband, not for his sake but for hers. And Pen seemed to be that person (remember, when she first decided to actually try to get married it wasn't because she wanted to find love, it was because she wanted to get away from her mother's and/or sisters' realm). But learning about Pen's desires for Colin showed Lord Vegetarian that what he was offering would not be happy or fulfilling for her, so he decided not to offer it.

This is keeping with type of romance novel character he is--the honorable suitor who's only flaw is that he is not the hero of the story.  If this wasn't based on established source material, I would expect him to show up in a later season and get his HEA.  

[oliviabenson]

It felt very rushed to me. Colin looks 13. And typical fantasy one kiss and he’s in love. As if.

[oliviabenson]

I forgot the end carriage scene was. cringe. No way pen would let Colin finger her like that. I mean fr. Just no.

I rather pen married the mr. Vegetarian and had an affair with Colin. 

[Sakura12]

I still find Colin so boring. They are not doing him any service by focusing more on Penelope than him. Showing him whoring around doesn't make him interesting. However I'm interested in the Lady Whistledown secret being outed and I really hope it's Penelope that tells him. Eloise will want to protect her brother. 

As for Cressida she would probably be a good match for Lord Vegetarian (Lol). She will get to run her own house and boss everyone around. She'd love it. Plus she'd get away from her father and that dark house. I'm sure nature lord's house is bright and airy with lots of greenery. 

Francesca has met her match.  They can sit around in comfortable silence or listening to or playing music. Reworking that music for was probably the most romantic gesture we've seen so far. Actions speak louder than words. And he probably doesn't want a house full of noisy children. 

While Benedict sleeps around, we haven't seen him in brothels. He seems to go for women that have their own passions. Madame Delacroix runs her own shop, the model that was only modeling to take art classes and Lady Arnold that has an interest in engineering. He seems to like smart independent women. So I'm interested in who he ends up with. 

[Chaser]

Colin really needs some fun sibling scenes. He needs development and spark. I struggle to remember his scenes. Pen is definitely caring the relationship. And the actors are trying so hard, it’s just not there for me yet. The trailer for the next set looks promising so I hope it sells me on them. 

I wish this was Benedict’s season. The character just seems to be treading water right now. Sidenote on Benedict, I know there are some Arrow viewers here; does he remind anyone else of Colin O'Donnell? 

[Roseanna]

7 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

I forgot the end carriage scene was. cringe. No way pen would let Colin finger her like that. I mean fr. Just no.

Yes! I nearly begin to long for heroines who, however much they loved the hero, woul slap his face.

Instead of proposing, Colin would have thought: "Why buy a cow if I can have milk for free" or "If she lets me do it without any promise, she will allow other men do it, too, if they try the same". 

It was simply too soon. The couple should at least have burned towards each other for a long time, like Anthony and Kate. 

 

[RachelKM]

7 hours ago, Chaser said:

Colin really needs some fun sibling scenes. He needs development and spark. I struggle to remember his scenes. Pen is definitely caring the relationship. And the actors are trying so hard, it’s just not there for me yet. The trailer for the next set looks promising so I hope it sells me on them. 

I agree. It's been one of my biggest complaints about the series. Colin is fun and funny in the books. But they really watered him down and stripped him of his relationships within the family. They gave his humor to Benedict in the first two seasons.

Speaking of Benedict:

7 hours ago, Chaser said:

The character just seems to be treading water right now. Sidenote on Benedict, I know there are some Arrow viewers here; does he remind anyone else of Colin O'Donnell? 

Again, agreed. I don't love that they seemed to have stripped him of his art. It was the one defining thing about him. And, now that you mention it, I can see the resemblance. 

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, oliviabenson said:

I forgot the end carriage scene was. cringe. No way pen would let Colin finger her like that. I mean fr. Just no.

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Yes! I nearly begin to long for heroines who, however much they loved the hero, woul slap his face.

OTOH, I thought it was nicely progressive of Colin to ask Pen’s permission before he went above the ankle.

 

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Instead of proposing, Colin would have thought: "Why buy a cow if I can have milk for free" or "If she lets me do it without any promise, she will allow other men do it, too, if they try the same".

The look on Pen’s face when Colin proposed did convey to me that she was thinking this.

 

2 hours ago, Roseanna said:

It was simply too soon. The couple should at least have burned towards each other for a long time, like Anthony and Kate. 

I thought Pen & Colin had mutually “burned towards each other” for years — although each trying to hide it from herself and himself respectively, while only succeeding (just barely) in hiding their mutual passion from each other.

Ah well. When it comes to TV dramatizations, the perception of mileage does vary.

I may have been influenced by having once long ago consummated a relationship with someone with whom I was "Old Friends."
But it wasn't *that* long ago (1970s) so, no, he did not immediately propose marriage. 
Hah! I just recalled that first passionate kiss occured after about 4 years of friendship in the back seat of a cab on the way to his place.

Edited May 23 by shapeshifter

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I thought Pen & Colin had mutually “burned towards each other” for years — although each trying to hide it from herself and himself respectively, while only succeeding (just barely) in hiding their mutual passion from each other.

Pen had a crush on Colin, but that's only "calf-love". And Colin spoke the truth when he said that he couldn't court Pen.

I haven't noticed any chemistry between then, save as friends. It's not enough that the audience knows that they are "endgame".

In the old days, when sex couldn't described in the novels and movies, there could still be strong sexual tension.