S06.E11: Fire And Vice

[DanaK]

Quote

WEDNESDAY, MAY 8, 9:32-10:01 p.m. EDT 

A fire at Ben's hardware store causes a major setback for the family. Meanwhile, Becky feels enormous pressure to help every single patient at her mental health facility internship. 

 

[Annber03]

"Just hit me and get it over with. And I'm talking to you, Louise, 'cause I'm scared of Dan..." 

LOL. I also liked the running joke of everyone thinking he burned down the store on purpose. I would probably use the money to rebuild the store, myself, but I do like how they split it so that Dan has a decent amount to take care of some things as well. 

I liked Becky's storyline. Her breaking down as she did...aw. I appreciate and totally understand her wanting to help everyone in every way she can, but yeah, I also don't blame her for struggling and feeling out of her depth. I'm glad she's willing to talk to others about her own issues. 

[ams1001]

Wow, Jackie was actually the reasonable one for once. Well, except for her reaction to the store burning down.

"Have you been diagnosed? Because we all have our theories."

 

[SoMuchTV]

5 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

 I would probably use the money to rebuild the store, myself, but I do like how they split it so that Dan has a decent amount to take care of some things as well. 

Wait, Dan was actually a 10% partner, right? So Ben giving him a portion of the payout was just what he was owed, and not some noble gesture on Dan’s part, or am I missing something? 

[ams1001]

3 minutes ago, SoMuchTV said:

Wait, Dan was actually a 10% partner, right? So Ben giving him a portion of the payout was just what he was owed, and not some noble gesture on Dan’s part, or am I missing something? 

That's what I was thinking... Dan would be entitled to 10%.

[SoMuchTV]

5 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

That's what I was thinking... Dan would be entitled to 10%.

And now that I think more about it (which I realize is not usually a good idea), if Dan’s share was high 5 figures,  then the remainder must have been high-ish 6 figures. How much exactly does it take to buy a magazine?  Doesn’t that give them a decent nest egg or at least something to live on while figuring out the next step?

[jmonique]

12 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

That's what I was thinking... Dan would be entitled to 10%.

The impression I got was that 10% of the insurance payment was much larger than Dan could have imagined, hence the glee.

Did someone take the regular writing staff hostage and submit this one instead, in which people actually seemed to move forward in life? I'm totally expecting an inland hurricane to take out Ben next week -- this all seems too potentially positive for what these writers usually put characters through.

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

Wait, Dan was actually a 10% partner, right? So Ben giving him a portion of the payout was just what he was owed, and not some noble gesture on Dan’s part, or am I missing something? 

You aren't missing anything.  I wasn't sure why everyone acted like Ben was doing some big favor for Dan, given Dan would be entitled to his share given his ownership interest.  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I do like how they split it so that Dan has a decent amount to take care of some things as well. 

 

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

Wait, Dan was actually a 10% partner, right? So Ben giving him a portion of the payout was just what he was owed, and not some noble gesture on Dan’s part, or am I missing something? 

 

1 hour ago, ams1001 said:

That's what I was thinking... Dan would be entitled to 10%.

 

1 hour ago, SoMuchTV said:

And now that I think more about it (which I realize is not usually a good idea), if Dan’s share was high 5 figures,  then the remainder must have been high-ish 6 figures. How much exactly does it take to buy a magazine?  Doesn’t that give them a decent nest egg or at least something to live on while figuring out the next step?

 

1 hour ago, jmonique said:

The impression I got was that 10% of the insurance payment was much larger than Dan could have imagined, hence the glee.

 

19 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

You aren't missing anything.  I wasn't sure why everyone acted like Ben was doing some big favor for Dan, given Dan would be entitled to his share given his ownership interest.  

Yes to all of this. Although they may be surprised by the amount, there's no reason for Louise and Dan to act like Ben did them a favor by giving him 10% of the insurance proceeds. If he's a 10% owner, that shouldn't be a surprise if the store isn't going to be rebuilt.

I hope Ben doesn't have to spend all the remaining money on the magazines purchase. If Dan is getting in the high 5 figures (let's say 80k), then Ben would have $720k left. The magazine would have to be highly profitable to be worth that much (and for Ben to be able to pay the staff and other expenses.)

Actually, Dan should be thanking Ben for staying current on the insurance payments, because you know that no true Conner would have done so unless it was absolutely required.

Edited May 9 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Snow Apple]

Whatever the technical details or what amount Dan is entitled to, I'm just glad that stupid mortgage can finally get paid off. Let's hope Dan really goes through with the responsible thing for once and not blow it on Disney World again.

[Bastet]

A print publication about hardware does not seem a promising long-term investment in 2024, but I hope this works out for Ben.  LOL at everyone thinking he set the store on fire for the insurance money.

Jackie as the voice of reason was so jarring I wasn't quite sure what to do with myself.  Becky panicking that she's not cut out to do the job she thought was her path after all this time was touching.  Tyler's analogy that pilots talk to other pilots so she should talk to ... him was odd, as we'd already had the actual point with Jackie, which is that Becky should talk with a therapist.  But Becky asking Jackie if she's been diagnosed, because they all have their theories, was great.

Lecy's faux typing drove me crazy in the scene where Becky was answering emails; she never strayed from the middle row.

[Yeah No]

I was thinking the same thing about a magazine in 2024 not being a great long term investment especially if it's aimed at hardware store owners.  I was kind of unclear on who the audience was for that TBH.

I thought Becky's plotline was somewhat realistic.  She is nowhere near ready to keep the appropriate emotional distance from clients.  Of course she took it to the most extreme degree but it dramatized what is common among novice counselors.  I went through something similar myself when I was doing a graduate internship in Counseling Psych.  And it's one reason I didn't really enjoy counseling.  I found it difficult to keep that necessary emotional distance.  

Last week someone thought maybe Dan would hit the lottery and pay off his mortgage.  Well this is not far from that.  Let's hope the Conner curse doesn't somehow make him not do that.  If the show finds some way to rob this family of a win that would suck.

[sheetmoss]

4 hours ago, jmonique said:

 

Did someone take the regular writing staff hostage and submit this one instead, in which people actually seemed to move forward in life? I'm totally expecting an inland hurricane to take out Ben next week -- this all seems too potentially positive for what these writers usually put characters through.

Noticed, Lecy 'Becky' Goranson was the writer of this episode

Edited May 9 by sheetmoss

[DanaK]

Ben taking on an already successful magazine is actually not a bad idea, though there is no guarantee it will still be around in 5 years, and he’s happier doing it than rebuilding the store. It’s certainly a better decision than trying to start a new magazine

[txhorns79]

8 hours ago, Bastet said:

A print publication about hardware does not seem a promising long-term investment in 2024, but I hope this works out for Ben. 

I agree.  Though it sounds like Ben has done some research because he was saying the magazine appeared to have a decent amount of loyal subscribers.  I just hope it's not another bike shop.

 

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I thought Becky's plotline was somewhat realistic.  She is nowhere near ready to keep the appropriate emotional distance from clients.  Of course she took it to the most extreme degree but it dramatized what is common among novice counselors.  I went through something similar myself when I was doing a graduate internship in Counseling Psych.  And it's one reason I didn't really enjoy counseling.  I found it difficult to keep that necessary emotional distance.  

I liked it.  I think Becky's in that phase where she has a large amount of knowledge through her schooling, but doesn't have the training or experience to be able to use that knowledge in a fruitful way.  She's also an addict herself, so she has trouble separating herself from women she sees as being in a similar position that she was in.  Whoever was supervising her at the facility should have been more on top of that, because Becky's behavior was out of control.   

[Rocknrollzombie]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

  Whoever was supervising her at the facility should have been more on top of that, because Becky's behavior was out of control.   

Yeah and also hippa, Becky can’t be telling anyone the patients person information.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

we'd already had the actual point with Jackie, which is that Becky should talk with a therapist 

I wouldn't assume that Jackie's therapist is going to let Becky "sub-in" occasionally for Jackie. New patients are more work than recurring ones, and require initial background and intake sessions. But then, the college therapist offered to see Darlene, so perhaps therapy works differently in Lanford.

And poor Neville, who is paying for Jackie's therapy sessions so that she will be healthier and potentially a better partner to him, will be grifted by the Conners yet again. 

And now that Dan has finally retired, he has more time to teach his off-the-books repair courses, as long as he isn't relying on the hardware store for his teaching equipment. He could make some nice extra money.

Edited May 9 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I wouldn't assume that Jackie's therapist is going to let Becky "sub-in" occasionally for Jackie. New patients are more work than recurring ones, and require initial background and intake sessions. But then, the college therapist offered to see Darlene, so perhaps therapy works differently in Lanford.

I assume they're not using insurance of any kind? Otherwise that would be fraud, too.

[One Tough Cookie]

14 hours ago, ams1001 said:

hat's what I was thinking... Dan would be entitled to 10%.

Did Dan contribute anything to the store while he was working there?

[emmyG]

like in marriage, after the partnership agreement is signed, you still get your share regardless of how you contribute...

 

(note: i'm not a business lawyer so what do I know?)

[iMonrey]

I, too, have to give a side-eye to the notion of buying a hardware magazine in this day and age. On the other hand, I'm not sure how profitable a mom-and-pop sized hardware store is either when it has to compete with Home Depot and Lowes. Neither option seems particularly promising IMO. I think Ben would be better off trying to start something new, like some kind of e-Zine that has broader audience appeal, if he's determined to do something with his writing.

18 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Actually, Dan should be thanking Ben for staying current on the insurance payments, because you know that no true Conner would have done so unless it was absolutely required.

Ben said he had to check with his mother before finding out the insurance had been kept up so it sounds like his mother was paying the premiums, not him. Either that, or his late father had paid far in advance of his death.

[chitowngirl]

At least the magazine with its built in subscribers can give Ben something to grow on. He can start up and add online content. There is really nowhere to go with a Mom and Pop hardware store, especially since they already mentioned completion from a big box.

[Rocknrollzombie]

Something I remembered, how surprised Becky was about Jackie going to therapy like it a new revelation while in the original the family went with jackie to a session when she was going to therapy.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Ben said he had to check with his mother before finding out the insurance had been kept up so it sounds like his mother was paying the premiums, not him. Either that, or his late father had paid far in advance of his death.

I thought of that, too, but he did know where the insurance policy had been kept before the fire, so I thought that perhaps he had been paying it himself.  And the premiums would be a business expense, so it wouldn't make any sense for his mother to be paying them unless she was a part owner.

 

Edited May 10 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Bastet]

I think Ben paid the premium regularly, and just kept renewing it as-is, but never paid any attention to the terms of the policy, blindly sticking with whatever his parents had selected as the level of coverage -- those terms are what he needed to check with his mom on since the contract went up in flames (like he couldn't just access his policy documents via the insurer's website, but whatever).

3 hours ago, Rocknrollzombie said:

Something I remembered, how surprised Becky was about Jackie going to therapy like it a new revelation while in the original the family went with jackie to a session when she was going to therapy.

Roseanne went with her to a session, but I'm not sure how much the kids were aware, or cared if they were, that Jackie was seeing a therapist back then.  It didn't become an ongoing thing in Jackie's life, just something she took up again recently (reluctantly, and on Neville's dime), so it works for Becky to be surprised she's seeing one now (especially since Jackie's fucking nuts with precious few coping or conflict management skills, so certainly doesn't scream I'm being regularly helped by a trained professional to those who know her).

Edited May 10 by Bastet

[iMonrey]

12 hours ago, Bastet said:

Roseanne went with her to a session, but I'm not sure how much the kids were aware, or cared if they were, that Jackie was seeing a therapist back then. 

At the very end of the Roseanne episode in question, all the Conner family were indeed at the therapy session, all taking turns pouring out their own grievances. It was a very early season episode too. I'm sure nobody on this writing staff even remembers it. And, apparently, not even Lecy Goranson or Laurie Metcalf. 

Then again it's impossible to guess what's supposed to be cannon anymore.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

At the very end of the Roseanne episode in question, all the Conner family were indeed at the therapy session, all taking turns pouring out their own grievances.

I forgot that tag somehow!  (They were often my favorite parts of episodes, so that's unusual.)  Thank you.

But that doesn't change what, for me, is the fundamental point in having no objection to Becky's reaction -- it seems therapy did not become a regular thing for Jackie, so the fact they all knew she went way back then doesn't mean it's odd for Becky to be surprised she's going now.

[Colorado David]

Wow i almost fell outta my chair,  a good episode for a change. NOBODY did anything stupid!! Now there don't have to be fires every week or the drama a substance recovery storyline provides, but let's keep this level of writing as the standard - thoughts put into story lines and not just excuses for quick not-so-funny quips and one-liners.

eta:  yeah agree with the above posters, a physical magazine anymore cant be too good a choice for a money maker. Now maybe a subscription website could work, like a Tool Time but online. Or heck an online magazine even, that seems to be the path newspapers have chosen.  Low overhead, do content as often as you want to, and some of those youtubers while I don't consider them as terribly talented to manage to pull in a LOT of subscribers.

Edited May 10 by Colorado David
adding mag thoughts

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, Colorado David said:

eta:  yeah agree with the above posters, a physical magazine anymore cant be too good a choice for a money maker. Now maybe a subscription website could work, like a Tool Time but online. Or heck an online magazine even, that seems to be the path newspapers have chosen.  Low overhead, do content as often as you want to, and some of those youtubers while I don't consider them as terribly talented to manage to pull in a LOT of subscribers.

A youtube channel teaching Dan's little how-to classes might be something to consider, along the lines of "Dad, How Do I?" Maybe as a feature on an online version of the magazine.

[Yogisbooboo64]

Becky pissed me off with how she treated Tyler when he was trying to be supportive.

The cruel way she brushed him off as she was responding to emails was unnecessary, I would have flipped her the bird and told her to see me when she grows up….that punk assed apology she gave him wasn’t enough and I hope that Tyler sacks up and calls her out on her shit if they are going to remain a couple.

I’m always Team Ben but if I were Darlene I would have been concerned about our financial future too.  Hopefully the 10% Dan gets will fully pay off his mortgage, leaving him with maintenance/tax bills that can be paid by his pension.  This can free him to continue to do at home DIY classes with the neighbors and with Louise now working at the school, they should be comfortable enough to not have to worry about future bills. 

Loving that Katey is in more episodes. 

[wendyg]

On 5/9/2024 at 3:28 AM, jmonique said:

The impression I got was that 10% of the insurance payment was much larger than Dan could have imagined, hence the glee.

Did someone take the regular writing staff hostage and submit this one instead, in which people actually seemed to move forward in life? I'm totally expecting an inland hurricane to take out Ben next week -- this all seems too potentially positive for what these writers usually put characters through.

This episode was written by Lecy Gorenson!

[ESS]

I loved this episode!! First off I want to say Congrats to Louise on winning her campaign for the school!!!! I really hope we'll see more with that in the upcoming episodes in some capability (and in s7) I love that she and Dan will finally get to pay off the house with that money from Ben which was very nice of him and I kind of forgot about Dan being part owner of the hardware store myself until it was brought up again. After paying off the house Dan & Louise can hopefully be happy together when the show ends that's what I want for them because I love them. That said I'm sad the show is ending and I'll miss it for sure, but honestly I got what I wanted: Dan & Louise together and married so I'm happy with the decision it's been a good run I think and it's at this point is when shows start to get stale and go downhill in quality.

[mythoughtis]

I don’t think Dan was actually given 10% of the ownership of the store.  I think Ben’s deal with Dan was that his pay would  include 10% of the store’s profit because of his expertise driving sales.  So Dan wouldn’t have been entitled to Any insurance money.  
 

Where has the sensible Jackie been all this time until now? She did a good job with Becky.  
 

Let’s hope the Connors do something sensible with the money - but their  track record is lousy. 

[jcbrown]

Is this the last season for this show?

[chitowngirl]

2 minutes ago, jcbrown said:

Is this the last season for this show?

One more 6 episode season

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/10/2024 at 4:49 PM, Yogisbooboo64 said:

... and with Louise now working at the school, they should be comfortable enough to not have to worry about future bills. 

As I recall, Louise agreed to work for transportation costs and lunch money.  She's probably losing money by working fewer hours at the restaurant. But of course, she's not doing it for the money.

She could be drawing social security, too, now. And she was also renting out her apartment.

Maybe next season, which will be the last, the Conners actually break free of their curse: Becky graduates, gets a good job, marries Tyler and moves into a home or apartment with a separate bedroom for Beverly Rose, (meaning Mark can move out of the windowsill area when he's home from school); Ben's magazine does ok and Darlene completely takes over management of the school cafeteria at a decent salary; Jackie finds something to do that doesn't drive Neville crazy; Harris does well at the restaurant; and Dan and Louise get to enjoy (semi) retirement.

Then we find out the whole season was a dream.

Edited May 12 by ItCouldBeWorse

[iMonrey]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Then we find out the whole season was a dream.

Or a book Darlene's been writing.

[Lovecat]

On 5/12/2024 at 12:41 PM, iMonrey said:

Or a book Darlene's been writing.

I actually wouldn't be too mad if it turned out to be a graphic novel, with David doing the illustrations.

[EtheltoTillie]

Magazine purchase is ridiculous. I can’t even believe this magazine exists or is profitable. Coming from a former magazine editor. I left the field 32 years ago, as it was already dying. The magazines I worked for, big titles, are all defunct. 

[ofmd]

On 5/12/2024 at 12:09 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She could be drawing social security, too, now. And she was also renting out her apartment.

 

I think it was a whole condo!

Happy for Ben. I'm sure print is the next big thing. You heard it here first!

Louise won. Good! No breakfast for poor kids.

So considering what Jackie is usually like... That is while she is seeing a therapist?!

Interesting that in an episode Lucy wrote, Jackie is suddenly almost like a normal (in sitcom terms) character, not like the caricature of a cardboard cutout hamming it up.

"Mom and Dad had great insurance on the store" -  wouldn't Ben know that, as he'd have  paid for it in recent years?

"Arsonist Vibe" - heh. Could be a band name.

Edited May 17 by ofmd

[Ottis]

On 5/11/2024 at 4:11 AM, ESS said:

I loved this episode!! First off I want to say Congrats to Louise on winning her campaign for the school!!!!

Well, the only person who achieved something ... wasn't a Connor.

On 5/8/2024 at 10:28 PM, jmonique said:

Did someone take the regular writing staff hostage and submit this one instead, in which people actually seemed to move forward in life?

Who moved forward? Besides Louise. They didn't get around to protecting their insurance policy, Becky intentionally crossed the line and had her truck stolen and Ben somehow thinks owning a hardware magazine will mean something? The least the writers could have done was to have him want to buy a failing local newspaper, because he believes in freedom of the press, local news and beating the big news corporations. A random trade magazine made no sense.

On 5/10/2024 at 3:53 PM, Colorado David said:

NOBODY did anything stupid!!

I'm not sure what you were watching ... see above.

On 5/11/2024 at 5:17 PM, mythoughtis said:

I don’t think Dan was actually given 10% of the ownership of the store.  I think Ben’s deal with Dan was that his pay would  include 10% of the store’s profit because of his expertise driving sales.  So Dan wouldn’t have been entitled to Any insurance money.

Ben actually said in this ep that Dan owned 10% of the store.

 

[qtpye]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:24 PM, SoMuchTV said:

And now that I think more about it (which I realize is not usually a good idea), if Dan’s share was high 5 figures,  then the remainder must have been high-ish 6 figures. How much exactly does it take to buy a magazine?  Doesn’t that give them a decent nest egg or at least something to live on while figuring out the next step?

Why is he buying a magazine instead of doing a podcast or vlog?

I'm honestly asking because I have no idea if magazines are still lucrative in this day and age.

Of course, maybe he is aiming for an older audience?

[qtpye]

On 5/10/2024 at 3:53 PM, Colorado David said:

Wow i almost fell outta my chair,  a good episode for a change. NOBODY did anything stupid!! Now there don't have to be fires every week or the drama a substance recovery storyline provides, but let's keep this level of writing as the standard - thoughts put into story lines and not just excuses for quick not-so-funny quips and one-liners.

eta:  yeah agree with the above posters, a physical magazine anymore cant be too good a choice for a money maker. Now maybe a subscription website could work, like a Tool Time but online. Or heck an online magazine even, that seems to be the path newspapers have chosen.  Low overhead, do content as often as you want to, and some of those youtubers while I don't consider them as terribly talented to manage to pull in a LOT of subscribers.

I was surprised at how much I enjoyed this episode

It actually felt like each character was evolving which was refreshing.

Mark sticking up for Ben was so sweet. They seem to have a good stepfather/son relationship.

On 5/14/2024 at 12:35 PM, Lovecat said:

I actually wouldn't be too mad if it turned out to be a graphic novel, with David doing the illustrations.

Lord, I think after Andy not existing, I could not handle any more alternative timelines for this family.

I still can't get over the original show saying that in real life, Becky was with David and Darlene was with Mark.

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, qtpye said:

.

I still can't get over the original show saying that in real life, Becky was with David and Darlene was with Mark.

Can you explain this?  I don’t remember this. 

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Can you explain this?  I don’t remember this. 

I think it was the Roseanne series finale where Roseanne claimed the whole last season had been a story in her novel.  She had changed some things around in the real world to better fit her novel. They are as follows (to the best of my recollection...some might be wrong):

1. Jackie, not Bev, came out as a lesbian

2. Dan did not leave Roseanne for his mother's caretaker and instead actually died of a heart attack. 

3. The family never won the lottery 

4. Mark was actually with Darlene and David/Becky were a couple in 
"real life" but she switched it around in the novel.

I would be so grossed out if my mother switched around my and my sibling's spouses, even in a novel.

[EtheltoTillie]

Thanks I remember all those things from the finale except switching Mark and David!  

[ESS]

On 5/21/2024 at 8:59 PM, Ottis said:

Well, the only person who achieved something ... wasn't a Connor

 

Okay point taken, but she is now one 

[Ottis]

1 hour ago, ESS said:

Okay point taken, but she is now one 

Not if she is my SO's family. Because no matter who you married, if you weren't born into that family, you aren't truly a family member. Sigh.

[ESS]

On 5/24/2024 at 8:41 AM, Ottis said:

Not if she is my SO's family. Because no matter who you married, if you weren't born into that family, you aren't truly a family member. Sigh.

Okay whatever you say 🙄