S02.E08: Knives at Dawn

[AntFTW]

Quote

As the Faithful's numbers continue to decrease, the Traitors find their backs against the wall; a special guest appears during a beastly mission that proves to be too much for some players; a Faithful is given an ultimatum that could be fatal.

Air date: February 15, 2024

[QQQQ]

Interesting that this week's episode is up early on Peacock. Not sure when it was posted, but I started watching at 7:50 CST (so 10 minutes early).

 

And judging by the lack of activity here, I'm the only person watching this week 😅

Edited February 16 by QQQQ

[sugarbaker design]

You are not alone.  I'm not surprised if viewership is down after last week's worst show ever. Good news is this week's show is much better, but the damage may already be done.  I'm looking forward to a Phaedra/Kate alliance.

[Thalia]

20 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I'm not surprised if viewership is down after last week's worst show ever.

And, at least in my opinion, the show didn't make a recovery this week.  Dr. Will's appearance was yawn worthy, particularly since the only two who for sure knew who he was had already been banished.   I was slightly interested in watching Phaedra with her back up against the wall, but all it took was a word of wisdom from John and it Parvati after all. 

I'm actually interested to see how Kate handles being a traitor.  She has seemed such an open book on both seasons.  Will she stay the same or clam up?  

And unless she says no and is murdered, is this YAEWNM (Yet Another Episode With No Murder)? 

[30 Helens]

Oh, look! They dragged the reanimated corpse of Dr. Will down from the Big Brother balcony and propped him up in Alan’s cabin! If you look very, very closely, you might even see the strings holding up his hands when he gestures.

Aside from the cabin creepiness (and yes, I mean Will), this was a fun episode. I thought Parvati really had John with her crocodile tears. And as much as I dislike Peter, his reasoning was solid. Try a Phaedra vote this week while you have a chance against the ‘wives coalition, and save Parv for an easy boot next week. But it seemed very few people were interested in playing a long game.  Still, did you notice how much it pained Peter to pass the talking scepter and listen to Trishelle’s theory? Heh.

If I were Phaedra, I might have tried to re-recruit Peter. He couldn’t say no this time, and with the wave of suspicion floating toward him, there’s a good chance he would be voted out next time and Phaedra would be considered exonerated. But Kate should be a fun traitor to watch.

How many episodes are in this season? Because if it’s 10, we’re in for a bloodbath.

Shut up, Sandra. Your “queen” bullshit is tired. And you’ve done nothing to brag about here. You can step off your fake throne and sit on the floor next to Peter.

I’m going to miss Parvati. Sniff.

[AntFTW]

Oh shit! John came in like a sniper at that round table! Shots fired!

I really thought John was going to go along with the plan to keep Parvati. They got me good! Turns out that John is better actor than Parvati. I really didn't expect him to switch gears to Parvati the way he did.

Haggis! Haggis! Any challenge with rodents will have a 100% success rate of me quitting. Sheree and Phaedra remind me of my aunties.

At least we don't have to hear Kevin keep saying "poverty" instead of "Parvati."

[AntFTW]

When Peter and Parvati were talking about calling a truce, it just looked like Peter was gazing into Parvati's eyes and was about to give her a rose.

[Soapy Goddess]

Just now, AntFTW said:

When Peter and Parvati were talking about calling a truce, it just looked like Peter was gazing into Parvati's eyes and was about to give her a rose.

A day late and a rose short.

[NeenerNeener]

I'm watching the Postmortem. Oh Parvati, you should have gone after every shield you could as hard as you could, if only because that means a Faithful didn't have one and could be murdered.

Edited February 16 by NeenerNeener

[janeyjay]

Bye Poverty (™Kevin) -- we hardly knew ye. Well, all except for Sandra who looked positively gleeful at your departure, despite having done nothing notable at all, save for the Snooker Ball Reenactment last week.

Speaking of Kevin, the braintrust convo between him and MJ was intriguing, not for the great intellectual value, but for the fact that the Truly Faithful Faithful gang might begin to turn on itself. 

Phaedra continues to bring the entertainment for me - "Don't be Sherlock the Dick" is gold. 

HAGGIS! HAGGIS!

[peachmangosteen]

So glad it was Parvati over Phaedra. She sucked as a traitor and was boring as hell. John coming for her like that was simply amazing. I howled lol.

The CT/Phaedra shippers must have loved this episode.

8 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

How many episodes are in this season? 

The TVDb is saying 12, with episode 12 being the reunion.

[MicheleinPhilly]

12??? Good grief. I didn't even remember this was on last night and was only reminded when I saw a new thread. 

Phaedra (sp?) can stick around for as long as she wants if only for her random asides about the food. 

"I want cream cheese and preserves." Huh? 

While it was certainly better than last week, this season is a gigantic snooze. You know it's bad when flippin' Trishelle is making the most sense. 

[LeDucDiableBleu]

The bit that CT did with the "snake in his pants" was hysterical.

[AntFTW]

 

[ichbin]

I'm glad they didn't throw non-reality veterans into the mix again, but, I'd rather the entire show were made up of non-reality veterans.  I'm so tired of seeing the same people hanging on to the threads of their TV notoriety.  One of the reasons I stopped watching their original shows was because of people being brought back again, particularly since I couldn't stand many of them on their first go round.  Good riddance, Parvati. 

6 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

"I want cream cheese and preserves." Huh? 

Delicious! Like having cheesecake sandwich.  

[Iseut]

Many of these people have the attention span and brain size of insects. They were on to something with Sandra's billiard demonstration last week, and sounded like they were on their way to eliminate Peter. This week that was completely forgotten. Sounds like they're winding their way back around to him, but it is taking foreeeever. 

I think Alan is genuinely tickled by John. He seemed to break "character" and actually laugh when John came out of the well and joked about having been surrounded by worse vermin in Parliament, and also a few weeks ago with John pronouncing the silly bird names. I agree, Alan, I'm totally Team John, especially after he called Parv out on her BS. (I'll miss her, but I also appreciate that he didn't fall for her ACTing.)

Edited February 16 by Iseut

[snarts]

I'll miss Parvati mainly because so many of the others are insipid dolts. Boring too. Sheree, Sandra, MJ barely say a word. I keep forgetting Kevin even exists. 

Is Trishelle not sharing that she is/was a professional poker player with the group because she thinks it would cast suspicion on her? It may have lent some credibility to her claims about Phaedra's tells. 

There's too many people left for only three more episodes...I wonder if Kate declines the invitation? 

[SourK]

I don't think Phaedra's the best ever Traitor, but I respect how well she defends herself at the round table. When Trishelle was like, "I'll start with the least convincing reason and move to the most," and then Phaedra immediately started making nitpicky arguments about the least convincing reason, I was like, "OMG, this is the chef's kiss of stalling and hoping everyone gets bored."

I didn't think that John was fooled by Parvati, but I thought it was socially skillful of him to be like, "You know what? You play really hard," in that moment.

5 hours ago, Iseut said:

I think Alan is genuinely tickled by John. He seemed to break "character" and actually laugh when John came out of the well and joked about having been surrounded by worse vermin in Parliament, and also a few weeks ago with John pronouncing the silly bird names. I agree, Alan, I'm totally Team John, especially after he called Parv out on her BS.

I get a slightly different vibe, like Alan's opinion of John might not be totally friendly. I know nothing about John -- to me, he's just some guy -- but, during the bird call task, there was a moment where I was like, "Shit, imagine if this was a politician in your country."

I do think that, when the two of them interact, I'm more consciously aware that this is Alan's job and he's working -- whether it's good or bad, the mood certainly changes.

[cathaireverywhere]

When folks were talking about Phaedra's eye twitch at the roundtable, I wish she would have said "Umm, have you seen my fake eyelashes???  Of course I'm twitching!"  

I can't imagine that Kate is going to turn away from the traitor invite, especially if she is murdered by refusing.  I didn't know anything about Kate when I watched the first season, but I've since watched her on Below Deck.  I am highly amused by her, so I hope she stays in the castle with these ninnies.  

[MerBearHou]

I am SO glad Parvati is gone.  

John was excellent at the Round Table.

Trishelle has very good poker-player instincts — she is spot on.  

[meep.meep]

2 hours ago, cathaireverywhere said:

When folks were talking about Phaedra's eye twitch at the roundtable, I wish she would have said "Umm, have you seen my fake eyelashes???  Of course I'm twitching!"  

I think the fake eyelashes make it more obvious.  I mean, I have noticed it and I'm not the most observant person.

[AntFTW]

I'm loving this season's cast. I feel like they're playing much harder than the season 1 cast. I think Cirie would have been a great to this season if she wasn't on Season 1.

7 hours ago, cathaireverywhere said:

I can't imagine that Kate is going to turn away from the traitor invite, especially if she is murdered by refusing.  I didn't know anything about Kate when I watched the first season, but I've since watched her on Below Deck.  I am highly amused by her, so I hope she stays in the castle with these ninnies.  

If Kate can keep her cool and continue acting the way she normally does, I don't think people would suspect her. I don't think Kate will turn it down because she wants to stay in the game, and moreso, because I think she wants to be a traitor. I think she's even said she wanted to be a traitor.

The only reason I think Trishelle (and Peter's Pals) is stuck on Phaedra is because Dan called her out. Phaedra is playing the role of traitor perfectly. The only time you see a crack in Phaedra is when she's being publicly called out. Dan blew up Phaedra's spot. If it were not for Dan, Phaedra wouldn't have so many eyes on her.

Edited February 17 by AntFTW

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

On 2/15/2024 at 10:51 PM, 30 Helens said:

Shut up, Sandra. Your “queen” bullshit is tired. And you’ve done nothing to brag about here. You can step off your fake throne and sit on the floor next to Peter.

I’m going to miss Parvati. Sniff.

As a BB/Survivor watcher, when the cast was revealed I knew I'd be happy with any outcome as long as Dan, Parvati and Janelle outlasted Sandra.

Well, fuck me.

I did not expect John would be the one to cut Parv's throat. Ouch!

All else being equal, Kate for the win. The season deserves it. Or, barring that, Trishelle. The last time I saw her in anything she was a hard-core alcoholic mess (The Real and Surreal Worlds), so it's nice to see her sober and fighting for her game life. 

Waxen Dr. Will has some thoughts:

https://ew.com/the-traitors-will-kirby-explains-big-brother-futility-on-the-show-8584001

"I don’t think it’s any secret that the four Big Brother contestants [Cody Califiore, Rachel Reilly, Janelle Pierzina, Dan Gheesling] on the first two seasons of The Traitors have done poorly, and I hope the fans don’t chastise me making that factual statement. See, I think some Big Brother players went on The Traitors to show that they “still got it” — only to realize that they actually “never had it.”

It takes an extremely unique skill set to do well on these types of shows, and anyone can get lucky once, but it’s really hard to repeat that success, and I’d be remiss if I didn’t openly wonder if the Big Brother contestants who appeared have really hurt their reality television legacies because of their poor gameplay in this series. Kind of strange to consider, but it is possible that we never see any of them on our televisions ever again. The reunion show might end up serving as their wakes."

Edited February 17 by Milk-Eyed Mender

[peachmangosteen]

I just think all the various competition shows are actually quite different and obviously circumstances will always be different. Cirie, for instance, was never able to win Survivor and did poorly playing BB. I don't find it unimpressive or legacy diminishing if players aren't able to do well.

[Milk-Eyed Mender]

16 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just think all the various competition shows are actually quite different and obviously circumstances will always be different. Cirie, for instance, was never able to win Survivor and did poorly playing BB. I don't find it unimpressive or legacy diminishing if players aren't able to do well.

This is fair. I think it was a cheap shot on Dr. Will's part, most likely directed at Dan, his chief competition for Best BB Player Ever. But I have to admit Dan and Parvati played terribly here, like they were uncharacteristically awful and I'm still trying to understand why, when they were frequently brilliant on BB and Survivor. Different games, for sure, but I figured they'd bring something useful to the table and they just...didn’t. 

[30 Helens]

What @peachmangosteen said. ^^

And as for the slowly melting humanoid candle formerly known as Dr. Will:

30 minutes ago, Milk-Eyed Mender said:

it is possible that we never see any of them on our televisions ever again.

If only he were talking about himself.

[Tachi Rocinante]

So Ducklips McStewardess is going to be a traitor now.  Yay.  She's useless, especially since this is her second shot at it.

Why is MJ even there?

 

 

[AntFTW]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I just think all the various competition shows are actually quite different and obviously circumstances will always be different. Cirie, for instance, was never able to win Survivor and did poorly playing BB. I don't find it unimpressive or legacy diminishing if players aren't able to do well.

I agree. In addition to that, I don’t think that losing a particular game or not getting far in the game means a person was a bad player at that game. A great deal of the time, people who are great players hit a patch of bad luck, and they get voted out.

For example, Cirie had a great social game on her last season of Survivor, a good enough social game to carry her to the Final TC. Personally, I thought Cirie was great at playing Survivor, and I thought she was a great strategic player even though she never won. However, she ran into some bad luck. She received no votes to be sent home, but was still sent home (or rather sent to the Jury). Cirie’s social game is the reason she was able to win season 1 of The Traitors. Cirie was always great at building trust with people, even in Survivor.

[snarts]

Dr Will screams bitter he wasn't cast/was relegated to a one episide guest role.

[Irlandesa]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:49 PM, Iseut said:

I think Alan is genuinely tickled by John. He seemed to break "character" and actually laugh when John came out of the well and joked about having been surrounded by worse vermin in Parliament, and also a few weeks ago with John pronouncing the silly bird names. I agree, Alan, I'm totally Team John, especially after he called Parv out on her BS. (I'll miss her, but I also appreciate that he didn't fall for her ACTing.)

Neither Peter or John fell for Parvati's acting, but I do think Peter was listening to Trishelle about the long game.  They lost Bergie, a member of their alliance.  If they were ever going to get Phaedra, who is part of the Bravo alliance, it was going to be during this elimination when they could leverage Parvati's vote to save herself. 

John got his shining moment at the table, but I suspect it sealed his doom unless he has more skills than he has revealed up to this point.  It's Peter, Kevin, John, and Trishelle against Phaedra, Sheree, MJ, Sandra, and Kate, with CT being the swing vote.  However, if you know Phaedra is a traitor, the next target of the traitors will likely be one of your group, bringing that number down.  I think that might be Peter because Kate hates him. It's not necessarily a strategic move, given they don't know who has the shield, but I don't know that Kate cares about that.

So I thought John wanted to look brilliant but I thought he just looked dumb. 

On 2/16/2024 at 9:21 PM, snarts said:

I'll miss Parvati mainly because so many of the others are insipid dolts. Boring too. Sheree, Sandra, MJ barely say a word. I keep forgetting Kevin even exists. 

It may have lent some credibility to her claims about Phaedra's tells.

I don't think she has to convince people that Phaedra's a traitor.  Half the table voted for her in the last episode, and even amongst the group who didn't vote for her, there are people who mostly know she's the "other" traitor.  They just elected to boot Parvati first.

Her best argument to her group was about numbers, not tells.  Even if Phaedra weren't a traitor, eliminating her would still have made more sense than Parvati.

5 hours ago, Milk-Eyed Mender said:

But I have to admit Dan and Parvati played terribly here, like they were uncharacteristically awful and I'm still trying to understand why, when they were frequently brilliant on BB and Survivor. Different games, for sure, but I figured they'd bring something useful to the table and they just...didn’t. 

I think Dan, Parvati and Cody all felt immense pressure to game when they were selected to be traitors. And I really feel for Parvati when she was tasked to "kill" someone while Phaedra just chillaxed over drinks. 

I do think Parvati should have pivoted somehow.  She really wasn't going to convince anyone that she wasn't a traitor--or at least not yet.  But I wonder if she could have bought a vote by going to someone, like CT, and insinuating that she'd make him a traitor if he got rid of her other traitor since killing a traitor usually begets another one. It might have bought her another week.  Or more. 

[peachmangosteen]

9 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I think Dan, Parvati and Cody all felt immense pressure to game when they were selected to be traitors. 

I don't know if it was a feeling of pressure or just a natural want to play hard but yes this. Honestly, the Traitors would be better off basically not playing at all. They're already at a huge advantage and are basically part of the game as opposed to playing the game so going all out and gaming is not smart.

[AntFTW]

11 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think she has to convince people that Phaedra's a traitor.  Half the table voted for her in the last episode

Well, nearly half the table votes in lock step with Trishelle. She needs to convince people outside of her group to vote for Phaedra.

If Phaedra makes it to the end and anyone in Peter’s group makes it to the final, Phaedra is not likely to win. They would vote Phaedra out in the final.

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's Peter, Kevin, John, and Trishelle against Phaedra, Sheree, MJ, Sandra, and Kate, with CT being the swing vote.

if I know Sandra’s game the way I think I do, I think Sandra is also a swing. Like CT, I think Sandra would flip if she believes the numbers aren’t on her side. Sandra may believe that Phaedra is a traitor, and a traitor you know is better than a traitor you don’t know. Sandra may believe that Phaedra wouldn’t murder her so she may keep her around for now.

[meep.meep]

23 hours ago, AntFTW said:

The only reason I think Trishelle (and Peter's Pals) is stuck on Phaedra is because Dan called her out. Phaedra is playing the role of traitor perfectly. The only time you see a crack in Phaedra is when she's being publicly called out. Dan blew up Phaedra's spot. If it were not for Dan, Phaedra wouldn't have so many eyes on her.

Phaedra actually showed a crack in this episode.  When the traitors murdered Bergie and the shield (unknown to them) protected him, she made a big scene at breakfast about "Not Bergielicious!"  She didn't do that at breakfast this episode.  Someone may remember that and wonder why.

She's kind of hiding in the clueless Bravolebrity cluster of Sheree and MJ.  Sandra's there too, but I suspect she's lurking.

[AntFTW]

11 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Phaedra actually showed a crack in this episode.  When the traitors murdered Bergie and the shield (unknown to them) protected him, she made a big scene at breakfast about "Not Bergielicious!"  She didn't do that at breakfast this episode.  Someone may remember that and wonder why.

I'm not sure I consider that a crack. My initial response to that was maybe she did and we didn't see... but that also got me thinking about her tells broadly. Maybe she is showing more "cracks" or "tells" that we don't see.

I know, for myself, the exit interviews and podcast interviews really filled in a lot of gaps as to why people thought Dan and Parvati were traitors. They gave a lot more detail about their thought process and what led them to the conclusion that Dan and Parvati were traitors than what we saw in the episodes. While I understand the edits we see are trying to weave together a story, the interviews gave a lot more details on Parvati's tells and Dan's tells than we ever saw in the episodes, especially the first batch of episodes that came out. It took a little while for the episodes to show us those tells that people were mentioning in the interviews.

I'm thinking the same may apply to Phaedra, because they never show us any suspicion about Phaedra until Dan calls her out. That makes me think that the catalyst to Phaedra being in the hot seat is Dan blowing up Phaedra's spot.

Edited February 19 by AntFTW

[AnnMarie17]

I'm excited to see Kate as a Traitor (assuming she agrees, which I think she will).  She's all about taking care of #1, zero fucks for others...that should make her a fun Traitor.

I laughed out loud when she said she'd throw anyone in that castle into the moat for $10! 🤣

[ladle]

It was pretty anti-climactic knowing that Phaedra wasn't going to be banished at the round table, as she has not yet said the "I don't have to kiss your ass for a rose" line that we saw in the season preview. 

[ladle]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:27 PM, ichbin said:

Delicious! Like having cheesecake sandwich.  

Cream cheese and jam on a bagel is the BEST!

[Ivana Tinkle]

On 2/17/2024 at 2:34 PM, Milk-Eyed Mender said:

Waxen Dr. Will has some thoughts:

https://ew.com/the-traitors-will-kirby-explains-big-brother-futility-on-the-show-8584001

"I don’t think it’s any secret that the four Big Brother contestants [Cody Califiore, Rachel Reilly, Janelle Pierzina, Dan Gheesling] on the first two seasons of The Traitors have done poorly, and I hope the fans don’t chastise me making that factual statement. See, I think some Big Brother players went on The Traitors to show that they “still got it” — only to realize that they actually “never had it.”

It takes an extremely unique skill set to do well on these types of shows, and anyone can get lucky once, but it’s really hard to repeat that success, and I’d be remiss if I didn’t openly wonder if the Big Brother contestants who appeared have really hurt their reality television legacies because of their poor gameplay in this series. Kind of strange to consider, but it is possible that we never see any of them on our televisions ever again. The reunion show might end up serving as their wakes."

Oh SHUT UP, you congealed glob of skin and preservatives. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

He looks like a figure at Madame Tussaud's. Naturally, I expect to see him as a contestant next season. 🙄

[Ilovepie]

I think Trishelle should keep pushing on Phaedra - I think that now that TWO known traitors voted for her is about the most absolute proof that she is traitor that you will ever get in this game. If these people can't see that, then they are idiots. Then again, Kevin can't figure out how to say Parvati's name so........

I am looking forward to Kate taking on the role she is meant to play in this game.

[AntFTW]

 

[AntFTW]

4 hours ago, AntFTW said:

 

I had to listen to this again because I definitely wasn't paying much attention the first time. About 1 hour and 4 minutes in, Sandra gives a little tea on the torch-lighting (ceremony?) from the previous episode about CT picking John over Trishelle.

[Hanahope]

So i didn't see it as much this episode, but in so many of the prior episodes, Parvati's 'talking head' interview had her dressed in the same white outfit she wore the first day, yet she's clearly talking about events that occurred days later.  

did they reshoot the first day?  or ask some contestants to put on the same outfit from the first day to do some interviews?  

[AntFTW]

21 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

So i didn't see it as much this episode, but in so many of the prior episodes, Parvati's 'talking head' interview had her dressed in the same white outfit she wore the first day, yet she's clearly talking about events that occurred days later.  

did they reshoot the first day?  or ask some contestants to put on the same outfit from the first day to do some interviews?  

It's not uncommon for reality shows to ask cast members to put on the same clothes and style their hair in the same way when they do interviews.