S05.E10: Bisquick

[aghst]

Wayne seems very naive or kind of a simpleton.

Looks like Lorraine shielded him from all the roughness of life, gave him a car dealership where he doesn't even have to be a good car salesman to make a very comfortable upper middle class lifestyle.

That's in contrast to Gator, whom Roy tried to mold in his image, apparently, but he was too soft and useless to him after he got bettered by Munch.

[iMonrey]

4 hours ago, Tom Holmberg said:

Godammit, Dot, you should have finished him off when you had him down!

I don't think it's an accident that Dot never killed anyone - I don't think she has it in her. Of course, she got someone killed by switching the names on the hospital rooms, but she herself did not kill anyone. I feel like the writers made a deliberate choice not to actually go there with her.

19 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

What was it that Lorraine gave to Roy in prison?

A pack of cigarettes.

[Raja]

20 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

What was it that Lorraine gave to Roy in prison?

A pack of cigarettes he could use to offer a counter bribe 

[sistermagpie]

25 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Maybe the ending would have worked better for me if there hadn’t been a fast forward. If we’d seen Wayne confront Dot over her lies and the fallout and reconciliation, or we’d seen Dot having to reckon with the actions she took and the people killed because of it—Witt, Danish, Jordan—and getting the therapy she needed. Then maybe her taking a level of kindness to Munch instead of choosing more violence would have felt like a more genuine act of growth and less “it’s my reality, you can stay or leave.” 

Seems odd to blame Dot's actions for at least Danish and Witt. They were victimized by the same person who victimized her, and she was taking the only action that seemed open to her to stop him. Witt and Danish were both doing their jobs in going after her, and she deserved people to go save her. Dot never really chose violence very willingly. She was happy to just live peacefully when not attacked.

It seems very in keeping with Wayne's character that he wouldn't be fixated on her lying enough to require a specific apology scene.

Edited January 17 by sistermagpie

[carrps]

2 hours ago, peeayebee said:

Like everyone else, I was so frustrated with Witt in this scene. Heck, the two of them were close enough that Witt could have just shot him in the leg. 

I kept yelling at him to shoot Roy in the shoulder. That would have forced Roy to drop then knife, and it wouldn't have made him a murderer.

[aghst]

2 minutes ago, carrps said:

I kept yelling at him to shoot Roy in the shoulder. That would have forced Roy to drop then knife, and it wouldn't have made him a murderer.

I think cops are trained to shoot to kill because even if injured, a would-be killer with a weapon could still do damage.

That and it's probably harder to shoot someone in the limb or at the edge than in the middle of the torso.

[carrps]

I understand that, but they were so close Witt could almost touch him with the gun barrel. Oh, well, not a big point.

[Starchild]

5 hours ago, DMK said:

I lost it when Scottie pointed out the cup measurement and he thanked her. 

I watched it twice and laughed out loud both times 

[Spartan Girl]

51 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Seems odd to blame Dot's actions for at least Danish and Witt. They were victimized by the same person who victimized her, and she was taking the only action that seemed open to her to stop him. Witt and Danish were both doing their jobs in going after her, and she deserved people to go save her. Dot never really chose violence very willingly. She was happy to just live peacefully when not attacked.

Didn’t mean to imply those two were her fault, I’m just saying I would’ve liked her to deal without all of the emotional fallout after she spent most of the show pathologically denying everything that happened, rather than fastfowarding to “everything’s good now.”

Edited January 17 by Spartan Girl

[Raja]

12 minutes ago, carrps said:

I understand that, but they were so close Witt could almost touch him with the gun barrel. Oh, well, not a big point.

They're always too close. It was the second time I saw a variation of the scenario this week and it was only Tuesday 

[Johnny Dollar]

I can’t believe they killed Winston. 

[rur]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

What was it that Lorraine gave to Roy in prison?

A pack of cigarettes. 

[DMK]

27 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Didn’t mean to imply those two were her fault, I’m just saying I would’ve liked her to deal without all of the emotional fallout after she spent most of the show pathologically denying everything that happened, rather than fastfowarding to “everything’s good now.”

But Dot wasn’t pathologically denying it, she knew it all happened, she was denying it because she didn’t trust cops. 

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

What was it that Lorraine gave to Roy in prison?

A pack of cigarettes, as a way of taunting him, given cigarettes in prison is currency, and she's just told Roy that she's essentially put a large number of the prisoners on her payroll, for the specific job of tormenting Roy on a daily basis.

[bosawks]

44 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I can’t believe they killed Winston. 

At least we found out he had a cat.  

I can only hope it was named Furguson.

[Crashcourse]

1 hour ago, rur said:

A pack of cigarettes. 

Yeah, it was answered earlier.

[carrps]

24 minutes ago, bosawks said:

At least we found out he had a cat.  

I can only hope it was named Furguson.

Lucky.

[TakomaSnark]

3 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

What was it that Lorraine gave to Roy in prison?

A pack of cigarettes.

 

ETA: Sorry, I thought I had fully refreshed the page and didn't realize this was already answered. Feel free to remove it!

Edited January 18 by TakomaSnark

[peeayebee]

4 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

The question was a Doylist one

I've learned a new word!

 

3 hours ago, aghst said:

Wayne seems very naive or kind of a simpleton.

Of course a lot of his behavior is due to his being electrocuted.

1 hour ago, carrps said:

Lucky.

in New Girl, Lamorne Morris (Witt) had a cat named Furguson.

I can't tell you how much I loved when Moonk was in the kitchen trying to say, "A man has a code," and kept getting interrupted. So great. LOL.

[DMK]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

Of course a lot of his behavior is due to his being electrocuted.

Wayne seemed to be like that before, though. 

[TakomaSnark]

Rewatching it for the fourth time and still amazed by it. That Gator apologized does give him an earned redemption, IMO. If Dot can have empathy for him - they were both abused children, after all - I can as well.

Give this season all the awards. While I felt it was light on plot and that's why Indira and Witt got sidelined for the law enforcement side, the themes were quite heavy and still managed in a very Fargo way.

Edited January 18 by TakomaSnark

[Pike Ludwell]

I was hoping Whit would redeem himself from all of his previous mistakes, by shooting Roy.

But I would have been surprised. Seems like a trend the past few years in a lot of shows is to not have good guys kill people with guns. They kill them often with other things. But not guns. One that pops to mind is Florida Man, and I know there are a lot of others. If you doubt this watch for it. Yes there are exceptions - Reacher for one.

Did Dot actually kill anyone with a gun? I don't remember from the earlier episodes. It seems she tried, but failed. But I may be mistaken.

I believe the eating of the biscuit was to symbolize Communion, a purpose of which, according to religious followers, is to celebrate the fresh start Christ can give.

[red12]

14 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

 

I have sneaking, cynical suspicion that it’s the old “Black Guy Dies” trope. Someone a few weeks ago correctly called out that POC have never fared well on this show—I didn’t watch season 4 so I have no idea what happened there—and it looks like they were right. Indira made it out okay but her happy ending  was basically becoming Lorraine’s assistant. Make of that what you will.

Watching the show I thought more than once how much I wish this character was not cast BIPOC or written differently. This episode sealed it. He was straight from The American Society of Magic Negroes moral to his own detriment with a great reward in the sweet by and by. I assume Roy's unnamed henchman gave him balance.😄

At least Roy will suffer in prison though.

[aghst]

Different kind of biscuit they made for the chili than Communion wafers isn't it?

Bisquik seems like one of those retro brands stuck in time.  Or maybe because I only knew about it decades ago when I was a kid.

I don't recall how to make pancakes or biscuits or waffles but I would think it wouldn't be much harder to get nice wheat flour, eggs and shortening (if necessary)  and other ingredients than using Bisquik?

In any event, it's suppose to be a conceit that Dot tamed a vengeful sin eater with the love and joy they put into the making of biscuits?

When I watched it, I was wondering if at any point he was going to get violent or threaten Wayne or Scottie and then Dot was going to pounce and stop him.

Felt tension in the air because it didn't seem Dot was entirely confident that she could mollify him.

Otherwise, if she could tame the beast, why didn't see try to calm the others who acted aggressively towards her?  Well everyone except Roy, who at first seemed under control but showed he can amp up and kill rather casually -- because he's not "soft."

[peeayebee]

44 minutes ago, aghst said:

Felt tension in the air because it didn't seem Dot was entirely confident that she could mollify him.

Otherwise, if she could tame the beast, why didn't see try to calm the others who acted aggressively towards her?  Well everyone except Roy, who at first seemed under control but showed he can amp up and kill rather casually -- because he's not "soft."

When Dot first walked in, she was scared, but then she seemed to realize that she could talk to him because he was a lost and wounded soul. She was gentle as well with Gator because she saw that he was hurt, both physically and emotionally. And he was contrite. 

With the other men she we saw her encounter, there was no sign of softness on their part. So she was always on her guard and could, for the most part, tell when she could talk to the person. Actually, we saw her try to talk to Karen, and in an earlier ep to Gator, but when they weren't receptive, she changed tack.

[Dev F]

12 hours ago, Tom Holmberg said:

On 1/16/2024 at 9:15 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Godammit Witt, you should have just shot him!

Godammit, Dot, you should have finished him off when you had him down!

It seems to me that these are both kind of the point: Dot was spared the responsibility for killing Roy because at the exact moment when she had her chance (and was definitely about to do it, I'd say), she was rescued by a man who would do anything not to kill him.

Even then, she's positively desperate to go after him and finish him off, but Witt insists on going himself. Which is a no-brainer choice, obviously, since he's a cop and she's a traumatized hostage—but it's significant that he goes after Roy not to get revenge on Dot's behalf but to uphold his own standard of justice and decency even though it kills him.

In a Christlike way (and a Coen-like way, amid many less Coen-like elements this season that I've already complained about), his death pays her debt. He wipes out the spiral of blood for blood, and it's because she's able to face the future without the stain of that act that, having just come from Trooper Farr's gravesite, she's able to face Ole Munch with grace and forgiveness.

10 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I've seen other comments that agree with this and from the start it seemed like it was exaggerating what we were seeing in Scotty. Like I remember one reviewer claiming she was bringing in trans issues when she's always just been a girl who uses she pronouns and gender-wise presents as however she wants on any particular day. (Linking tomboys to trans men is a false anti-trans TERF talking point, in my experience.) She's intentionally a mixture of all sorts of outward symbols because she's being brought up in a home that doesn't require gender roles to be either one way or the other. Mildly tomboyish at times probably represents more girls and challenges gender norms differently than anything traditionally boyish meaning she's a boy.

Oh, I'm not saying I was expecting for Scotty to turn out to be a trans boy or anything like that. (Some critics and commenters definitely got out over their skis on that one.) But at a certain point if you're doing so little with a character thread that it just kinda drops completely after a few episodes, was there really a point in doing it at all? Especially when it's done in a way that seems to link two characters together that otherwise seem totally dissimilar, but then that link doesn't amount to anything when they finally do meet. Better to not suggest a connection at all than to tease one and then never deliver on it!

It's a problem I had with a number of the characterizations this year: they all seemed so vibrant and full of potential to begin with, but a lot of them didn't end up amounting to much. Wayne, for instance, seemed really interesting at first, this guy who's earnestly Minnesota Nice in the way that most people just pretend to be, like someone raised to be genuine by the disingenuous. But then they literally give him head trauma for half the season so he just wastes all his screen time babbling nonsense that only speaks to the fact that his brain isn't working right!

[aghst]

I wonder if the point of Scottie is not that she's tomboyish or may turn out to be gender fluid so much as her not conforming to traditional little girl role ticks off Lorraine and is meant more to show her character.

[endure]

On 1/16/2024 at 8:26 PM, Starchild said:

I was wondering why Roy was still there at all. Why did he hang around for someone to find him instead of just booking it down the tunnel as soon as he came through the door?

 

Maybe he lives there now! :)

 

OK that final dinner scene was art, it was beautiful. I literally teared up. I wonder if he can die now.

My thoughts exactly, now he has learned about love and forgiveness he can grow old and die. I thought it was a great ending.

[endure]

6 hours ago, peeayebee said:

When Dot first walked in, she was scared, but then she seemed to realize that she could talk to him because he was a lost and wounded soul. She was gentle as well with Gator because she saw that he was hurt, both physically and emotionally. And he was contrite. 

With the other men she we saw her encounter, there was no sign of softness on their part. So she was always on her guard and could, for the most part, tell when she could talk to the person. Actually, we saw her try to talk to Karen, and in an earlier ep to Gator, but when they weren't receptive, she changed tack.

He did save her life when she was in the well.

[chitowngirl]

I loved the scene where Roy comes out of the tunnel, is happy to see his people, and starts to go toward them-not realizing the FBI are right behind him.

[Misty79]

16 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Seems odd to blame Dot's actions for at least Danish and Witt. They were victimized by the same person who victimized her, and she was taking the only action that seemed open to her to stop him. Witt and Danish were both doing their jobs in going after her, and she deserved people to go save her. Dot never really chose violence very willingly. She was happy to just live peacefully when not attacked.

It seems very in keeping with Wayne's character that he wouldn't be fixated on her lying enough to require a specific apology scene.

I agree. I don’t think there would have been any dramatic tension in an apology/explanation scene between Dot and Wayne. Of course he would forgive her, he would clearly forgive her anything. And her behavior — in particular the compartmentalising — was totally understandable given the extreme trauma she’d experienced as Roy’s wife. Any loving partner would forgive withholding that history IMO.

[peeayebee]

8 hours ago, Dev F said:

It seems to me that these are both kind of the point: Dot was spared the responsibility for killing Roy because at the exact moment when she had her chance (and was definitely about to do it, I'd say), she was rescued by a man who would do anything not to kill him.

Even then, she's positively desperate to go after him and finish him off, but Witt insists on going himself. Which is a no-brainer choice, obviously, since he's a cop and she's a traumatized hostage—but it's significant that he goes after Roy not to get revenge on Dot's behalf but to uphold his own standard of justice and decency even though it kills him.

In a Christlike way (and a Coen-like way, amid many less Coen-like elements this season that I've already complained about), his death pays her debt. He wipes out the spiral of blood for blood, and it's because she's able to face the future without the stain of that act that, having just come from Trooper Farr's gravesite, she's able to face Ole Munch with grace and forgiveness.

I like your analysis. Several times this season Dot wounded someone but wasn't able to kill, either by choice or timing. I think there are many other instances in other movies/TVs/books where one character killed so another character wouldn't have to. Road to Perdition comes to mind.

[bad things are bad]

I think Lorraine's backstory would make for a great S6. Is she sympathetic to Dot because she was abused? How did she get so powerful and ruthless?  What was Danish to her? 

[Crashcourse]

I saw Juno Temple on Stephen Colbert last night and I didn't realize she was British.  That explains the overdone Minnesota accent.

While I like chili and biscuits, the thought of eating them together makes me wanna throw up. 🤮 

I wouldn't mind a season with Lorraine, but no Dot and her family.

[iMonrey]

14 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

Give this season all the awards.

I wonder if this falls under the "limited series or movie" category or just the "drama" category. I don't know who gets all the awards for the latter now that Succession is over. 

10 hours ago, Dev F said:

Wayne, for instance, seemed really interesting at first, this guy who's earnestly Minnesota Nice in the way that most people just pretend to be, like someone raised to be genuine by the disingenuous. But then they literally give him head trauma for half the season so he just wastes all his screen time babbling nonsense that only speaks to the fact that his brain isn't working right!

I honestly don't think our takeaway is meant to be that Wayne is brain-damaged as a result of the electrocution. By the end I think he was back to normal - for him. Wayne was never actually a main character. He is just a polar opposite of Roy in every way. Simple, kind, maybe not too bright. In those closing scenes, asking Munch if he was from around there, recounting fishing trips, etc., he seemed back to his old self from the beginning of the season. 

Could they have done more with him? Sure, but he isn't the main story here, he is just there to service Dot's story, in which Roy is the much more important character. After the horrors of Roy, I can see how someone who is sweet, simple and kind would be so attractive to Dot.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, bad things are bad said:

I think Lorraine's backstory would make for a great S6. Is she sympathetic to Dot because she was abused? 

I think at that moment Dot went from a best case shark playing the long game with her vulnerable son to the tiger who will protect her cubs.

[Crashcourse]

Wayne is perfect for Dot because she can gaslight and manipulate him any time and any way she wants.  

[Raja]

I'm looking at the one year later home and booming business and thinking that now that Dot is really family to Lorraine that she is now laundering more money to her son through the car dealerships. Those auto fleets and luxury buyers no longer pushing for the best deal.

[Eulipian 5k]

22 hours ago, aghst said:

Even the idea of sin and penance, though borrowed from No Country for Old Men, kind of plays into the Christian Nationalism strain that Roy and Odin probably embody, though of course the leaders don't believe in penance for themselves, just everyone else.

This was the basis of the idea of a sin eater "do the crime let Oola eat your time in hell". Very interesting how Oola and Dot's convo about debt qnd forgiveness compares to the  MIL who is the Queen of debt, (which she never forgives, unless you "service" Roy for her). Time to buy Vaseline futures!

[Eulipian 5k]

Poor Gator, I was so sure when he escaped, that he was about to step right back into the tunnel opening, lol. I guess Darwin forgave him, even if Roy didn't. Amazing transformation when he spoke to Nadine after, acting with half his face, and no eyes!

[peeayebee]

I noticed on Hulu (as well as IMDB) that this episode is called "Bisquik." The spelling of the actual product is Bisquick. I wonder which one is Fargo's official episode name, and if it is without the C, why.

I think I've always spelled it without the C, perhaps because of Nestle Quik, aka Nesquik.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Crashcourse said:

Wayne is perfect for Dot because she can gaslight and manipulate him any time and any way she wants.  

But she doesn't want!

[Raja]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But she doesn't want!

I guess the problem is with the small snapshot we see what Lorraine saw. A man who probably has a hidden allowance sent to him and Jennifer Lawrence would have been hired for him if his father was like Matthew Broderick in No Hard Feelings. And Dot slid herself in. And now it may be much like an arranged marriage, in that if you live giving love the feelings become real over time.

[Crashcourse]

17 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But she doesn't want!

Oh, I think she does.  JMHO

[steph369]

On 1/17/2024 at 12:17 PM, Crashcourse said:

The overdone Minnesota accents drove me crazy, especially from the female officer and Dot. 

The overdone accent is intentional. It’s a Fargo thing, right from the start with the movie. I especially liked Indira’s accent. It was even more OTT. Makes me chuckle every time. 

[Roaster]

5 hours ago, bad things are bad said:

I think Lorraine's backstory would make for a great S6. Is she sympathetic to Dot because she was abused? How did she get so powerful and ruthless?  What was Danish to her? 

I doubt they would make a show about Lorraine at this point, but I agree she would be an interesting central character.  And I'm for anything that gets us more Jennifer Jason Leigh performances.

[jmnf19]

5 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

While I like chili and biscuits, the thought of eating them together makes me wanna throw up. 🤮 

Biscuits go great with chilli! 🤤

[Raja]

2 minutes ago, jmnf19 said:

Biscuits go great with chilli! 🤤

I guess biscuits are northern folks cornbread 

[FoundTime]

19 hours ago, aghst said:

Different kind of biscuit they made for the chili than Communion wafers isn't it?

Bisquik seems like one of those retro brands stuck in time.  Or maybe because I only knew about it decades ago when I was a kid.

I don't recall how to make pancakes or biscuits or waffles but I would think it wouldn't be much harder to get nice wheat flour, eggs and shortening (if necessary)  and other ingredients than using Bisquik?

In any event, it's suppose to be a conceit that Dot tamed a vengeful sin eater with the love and joy they put into the making of biscuits?

Communion "bread" is not always wafers, sometimes it is actual bread. In my church, it's a literal loaf that one of our pastors bakes for the occasion. And during the pandemic, when everybody was doing Communion at home, the definition was broadened to "any grain-based food" 😉

The significance of Bisquick in this season goes back to the early episodes when Dot was supposed to make pancakes (waffles?) for Scotty and wasn't able to (or forgot? It's been a while), and it kind of haunted her all through the events of the season. So it was symbolic in that sense, also, of the world being back in order. (In a more mundane way, it's obviously a settled part of their kitchen routine.)

And the symbolism of the final scene was totally (in my reading) that the offer to Munch of the biscuit (and the invitation to forgiveness) represented the love and joy of a Communion meal, "the bread of heaven" -- grace and reconciliation.

[Crashcourse]

58 minutes ago, steph369 said:

The overdone accent is intentional. It’s a Fargo thing, right from the start with the movie. I especially liked Indira’s accent. It was even more OTT. Makes me chuckle every time. 

I saw the movie, and I know that's a "thing," but the accents in the movie weren't nearly as cringeworthy as the ones in this show.  Dot and Indira had the worst ones, and I didn't find them funny.  JMHO