S20:E9: Finale

[Rainsong]

I have stated The Bachelorette generally doesn't interest me since there's only one female lead character. Sorry. Red blood and all that. But having seen Charity in the previous season of The Bachelor I had the sensation of approaching a nasty-looking car wreck on the highway. I told myself I wouldn't rubberneck but curiosity still turned my head for the finale.

It's a strange sensation not having (much) knowledge of the participants but on the other hand it's somewhat liberating since by the end of the season and on TMTA they've largely cast aside their cloaks of vulnerability and nonthreateningness since they no longer need to sidle up to The Bachelorette.

Producer plants and producer-fomented arguments are also much easier to spot when one is 'cold' ie unfamiliar with the players especially Earring Boy. He's someone the Australians would call a tryhard. A very fitting title. The usual passive-aggressive arguments of 'you weren't authentic and you took valuable time away from those of us who were.' Rinse & repeat for TWTA.

TWTA & the finale have become a dizzying pitchfest for other 'Bachelor Nation' productions...dizzying even for experienced viewers. It's a tacit admission that traditional advertising spots are being ignored, muted etc. by an audience conditioned to pick up their phones and tablets as soon as the (many) commercial breaks arrive.

I'm sure it's been observed that Charity's hair-trigger crying jags were just as prominent in her season as the previous one. The line on the forehead sticks out in bas-relief, the eyes redden and the waterworks kick on. I reckon there were bets placed on or some sort of drinking game or point system could be devised for the number of times Charity would well up in an episode.

The Golden Bachelor could be interesting...if he wasn't giving it the same Sensitive New Age Guy vibe that the younger set are obviously pursuing. Still, it will be interesting to see the GB's Bachelorettes although surely most will be divorcees or possibly widows and a new designation may be required?

Joey seems harmless in the good and bad senses of the word. Jesse, certain audience members and social media types were raving about 'a Bachelor who was actually a popular choice' - how quickly they've forgotten about the likes of Juan Pablo and Chris Soules who were also so-called fan faves but who performed abysmally as The Bachelor.

Bachelor In Paradise is essentially scripted oh-yes-he-is-oh-no-he-isn't pantomime at this point, based on the previews. Hardly a surprise to see some of the more neurotic Bachelorettes from Zach's season ready to rant and rave and try to out-cry Charity.

[dleighg]

Right after Dotun's proposal Jesse interviewed yet another potential contestant for The Bachelor. Her reasoning made NO SENSE. It's so hard to make a connection in NYC so she wants to go on a show with a horde of other women, to an as-yet unnamed Bachelor? Oh right, you're a "hopeless romantic." No girl, you want your 15 minutes of fame, and in the best case, a new couple of gigs on Bachelor Nation.

[Quickbeam]

My husband had Joey’s hair type in his youth and felt it was miserably hard to get it to behave day to day. I liked it long and in ringlets but he felt it was cartoonish. So it is tough hair to look dignified but the finale haircut looked good on Joey. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Quickbeam
Clarity

[SallyAlbright]

I enjoyed the finale and I really like Charity and Dotun together. I hope they make it as they seem well-suited to one another, but time will tell. They've had a very obvious special connection all season and he seems like a great guy.

I felt terrible for Joey as that rejection was brutal with absolutely no hint that she wasn't picking him. His haircut looks fantastic and I think he'll be a very popular Bachelor. He genuinely seems like a nice person, so I'm rooting for him. 

Charity retweeted a couple of things that implied her family was upset by the edit and how they were portrayed, so maybe that's why her mom looked less than thrilled at the live portion. I can't really see why they wouldn't like Dotun unless he is a very good actor and a very different person offscreen. 

Weirdly, Kat and Charity are really close friends - Charity listed her as one of her best friends from the show in a recent interview and they've gone on trips together after Zach's season. It seemed like Brooklyn made more of that drama between them than they did. 

I continue to love Jesse Palmer, I'm so glad he's the host. He's natural and nice and fully aware of how silly the show is, which I really appreciate. 

[bosawks]

38 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

I continue to love Jesse Palmer, I'm so glad he's the host. He's natural and nice and fully aware of how silly the show is, which I really appreciate. 

He looked like he was getting such a kick out of all "most surprising twist" ever nonsense.

[dleighg]

38 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

I can't really see why they wouldn't like Dotun unless he is a very good actor and a very different person offscreen. 

My theory is that Joey just really hit it off with them, so they had become biased to think he should be the one. And perhaps Dotun was a bit subdued for whatever reason, so they were less impressed.

[DEL901]

45 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

I continue to love Jesse Palmer, I'm so glad he's the host. He's natural and nice and fully aware of how silly the show is, which I really appreciate. 

5 minutes ago, bosawks said:

He looked like he was getting such a kick out of all "most surprising twist" ever nonsense.

Have you seen him on any of the baking shows he hosts?   Fun, funny and not afraid to dress up in silly costumes related to the theme of the week, make silly dad jokes and chat with the contestants during the bakes.  He is a great host.  

[SallyAlbright]

59 minutes ago, dleighg said:

My theory is that Joey just really hit it off with them, so they had become biased to think he should be the one. And perhaps Dotun was a bit subdued for whatever reason, so they were less impressed.

Yep, that's the unfair part where someone has to meet the family second! Joey really impressed them so poor Dotun already had an uphill battle before even meeting them. He also seemed more nervous than Joey which I found endearing but maybe came off weird in person. Who knows? Hopefully they like him now. I remember Jojo's parents preferred Robby to Jordan and they are happily married so maybe it's a good sign 😂

[SallyAlbright]

Post-finale interview with Charity and Dotun:

 

[Stats Queen]

20 hours ago, Riplet68 said:

Cracks me up he’s as tall as she is when he kneels. She’s got on really high heels

I’m 5’2 and my husband is 6’3” no I know what that looks like to others. He has long limbs and I have short limbs - his arms are the same length as my legs.

As usual, the surprise was a let down. I hope they go the distance. 
 

I didn’t care for on the Bachelor but I thought she was a good bachelor- who didn’t cancel rose ceremony IRS and cocktail parties.

[Kiss my mutt]

Did Rachel get plastic surgery on her face? She looks so different. I didn’t know who she was at first. 

[DEL901]

5 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

Did Rachel get plastic surgery on her face? She looks so different. I didn’t know who she was at first. 

I was thinking the same thing.  She has been open about having a breast reduction, though.  

[call me ishmael]

3 hours ago, SallyAlbright said:

Yep, that's the unfair part where someone has to meet the family second! Joey really impressed them so poor Dotun already had an uphill battle before even meeting them. He also seemed more nervous than Joey which I found endearing but maybe came off weird in person. Who knows? Hopefully they like him now. I remember Jojo's parents preferred Robby to Jordan and they are happily married so maybe it's a good sign 😂

I found the whole thing annoying tbh. It was clear that the family preferred Joey just as it was obvious that she wanted them to say Dotun.  That’s what all the family drama was all about.  And then the way she let Joey go on and on at the final RC was a clear case of have your cake and eat it too.

I thought she did really well until the Xavier drama.  But her anger at him seemed really out of proportion even at MTA.  And then letting Aaron back in when he stood no chance.  I know the leads get carried away (ex leads on BIP anyone).  But she had seemed so thoughtful before the last few weeks.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

Joey is definitely cute, but can he be hot? Maybe they can sex him up with leather jackets or a 5 o' clock shadow. Joey seems like a nice guy, but his lack of personality makes me not able to really get a sense of who he is.  Also, Gabby's girlfriend should lose the Little House on the Prairie reading glasses. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Hip-to-be-Square

[Andromeda]

I knew it would be Doh-uhn when Charity got upset with her mom saying Charity glowed with Joey.

I really don't like the main saying she's "in love" with multiple people. That never used to be a thing, and it diminishes the eventual "I love you." Charity even told Joey she was in love with him while breaking up with him!! Eh, no, hon. Don't do that. When they met on stage, Joey clarified that they still "loved" each other, which makes a lot more sense.

Glad Joey is still free.  He's a keeper, and I hope he finds someone.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Andromeda

[Katie111]

Does anyone else just find Dotun unattractive?  I mean he seems like a really nice guy but I don't find him attractive at all. He's got a decent smile and a nice body (I think, although I'm not sure if we ever saw him topless) but his nose is just awful.  And I like tall guys but I always think being with someone that tall would just get physically uncomfortable (like your neck would always hurt).   However, I do like that he doesn't seem like the typical bachelor type of guy (musclehead, personal trainer types).  I was curious to see if he knew anything about sports as that seemed important to her dad. I just can't tell if he's just a complete nerd as I don't feel like we found out much about him.  

I hate when these contestants go on DWTS.  It just puts such a strain on their new relationship (doesn't Dotun have to go back to his job at some point?) and it just makes it seem like these people were really in it for fame and not love, esp since most relationships don't seem to survive DWTS.   I think living in an apartment in a strange city while your partner goes and dances for 10 hours a day (and is probably completely stressed out)  is not a great way to start a relationship.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

43 minutes ago, Katie111 said:

Does anyone else just find Dotun unattractive?  I mean he seems like a really nice guy but I don't find him attractive at all. He's got a decent smile and a nice body (I think, although I'm not sure if we ever saw him topless) but his nose is just awful.  And I like tall guys but I always think being with someone that tall would just get physically uncomfortable (like your neck would always hurt).   However, I do like that he doesn't seem like the typical bachelor type of guy (musclehead, personal trainer types).  I was curious to see if he knew anything about sports as that seemed important to her dad. I just can't tell if he's just a complete nerd as I don't feel like we found out much about him.  

I'm not attracted to Dotun either- he does have a great smile and dresses nicely, but he's not my type.  I think that Dotun's height is just too tall and intimidating for me since I'm 4'11" and I prefer guys that are 5'8" or shorter.   I felt bored during Chairty and Dotun's proposal and I'm glad their season is over- onto Grandzaddy Gerry 🌹🧓🙌!  

[Quickbeam]

I remember when Josh Duhamel was married to Fergie, he said she picked him because she wanted tall children.  Maybe the tall factored in! She is wee. 

[limecoke]

I’m sorry. I’m probably old-fashioned but how can you send away “someone you’re still very much in love with” five minutes before you get engaged to someone else? This is so weird to me. I felt the same after Desiree’s strange ending but, hey, it worked out great for her and Chris so maybe it’ll be the same for Charity and Dot-uhn. I hope so because they both seem like good people.

[Crashcourse]

Dotun isn't drop dead handsome, but I like his smile. 

Joey's got the curly hair but I don't think he's that attractive either.  However, like Dotun, he seems like a nice guy.  

[ljenkins782]

On 8/22/2023 at 12:24 PM, Katie111 said:

I wonder how Cahrity's mother feels now.  She clearly loved Joey and was very "meh" on Dotun.  The whole meeting seemed awkward.  He came in and no one had anything to say either to him or Charity.   It seemed like all her sister could muster to say afterwards was that he seemed very smart.  I think he may just come across as pretty dorky and the sister and mom were just not seeing that vibe with her.  I did like that race does not seem to be an issue for them at all.

That seemed like creative editing to me. They need to keep up some level of suspense and it's been pretty obvious for awhile that Dotun was the one. So when they went overboard showing all the positive reaction to Joey and then seemingly looped the shots of the family showing the same lackluster reaction to Dotun over and over, I was more convinced than ever that it was Dotun. 

But I also thought she tossed off I love yous with Joey pretty naturally, gave me flashbacks to Clayton acting like everyone was his final pick. Charity didn't seem to get any blowback for that, but I guess getting the Bachelor gig healed over any hard feelings Joey might have had.

He has such a malleable personality, I'm sure he'll do well as the lead. Not sure he'll be successful at finding a real relationship, but he'll have a good time. 

I have actual hopes for Charity and Dotun, their relationship seems genuine. Hope the DWTS gig doesn't interfere in any way.

Also, I'd like to see a reality show of Charity's mom and Dotun's mom becoming in-laws. Even though the family visit went fine, Dotun's mom seems like she might be a lot, I think it would be entertaining to watch those 2 interact.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by ljenkins782

[deSchenke]

If Charity was smart, or really wanted her relationship with Dotun to work, she would turn down the DWTS gig.

[dleighg]

3 hours ago, deSchenke said:

If Charity was smart, or really wanted her relationship with Dotun to work, she would turn down the DWTS gig

yeah really. What is the point? DWTS is to raise your public profile. Does she want an "influencer life" or does she want to begin the rest of her life with a guy who doesn't seem to particularly want to live in that world.

[DEL901]

2 hours ago, dleighg said:

yeah really. What is the point? DWTS is to raise your public profile. Does she want an "influencer life" or does she want to begin the rest of her life with a guy who doesn't seem to particularly want to live in that world.

The point is earning between $150,000 just for showing up to making $250,00 if she makes the finals.    It is a nice nest egg.   

[Alexander Pope]

Dotun is not classically handsome but he has an ease and an elegance that I find really attractive.  When he kneeled to propose to Charity, I gave him five stars.  Best kneel in the show's history IMO!

[phlebas]

All of the Bachelor podcasts I listen to cannot stop singing Charity's praises, and I am sorry, I do not get it.  Yes, she's beautiful and she seems like a really nice person, but I never found anything about her that popped off the screen. 

It seems like the people who are saying this are also saying she might be bumping Hannah Brown off the top spot for their favorite lead.  Hannah also seems nice, but good god her season was frustrating.

But what do I know?  I kinda liked Katie.

[tennisgurl]

That went exactly as I expected, it almost felt like it was all arranged by Charity, Joey, and Dotun ahead of time, that Charity would pick Dotun, Joey would be Bachelor, and everyone would win. Like most of this season, its all been impressively chill for the most part, even Charity breaking up with Joey felt so much more dignified than most breakups this late in the game, even after he got dumped he had nothing but nice things to say about Dotun and Charity, and while you could certainly say that its because he knows this is his last step to the Bachelor and because he just seems like a nice guy, I would be pretty amused if the three of them all sort of engaged in a mutual wink where they decided how this would play out so they would all come out smelling like roses. 

I know that its a part of the shows nature, but it really is rough to see Charity seemingly so in love with Joey and telling Joey how much she loves him and sees a future with him, only for her to go with another guy and get engaged to him in a minute, but I guess that's the name of the game, they all know what the show is. It probably helped a lot that Joey was basically guaranteed to be the Bachelor so that really healed that cut. 

Ouch, the meeting with Charity's family was awkward. Some of this might have been creative editing, they took out scenes of Charity's family vibing more with Dotun to tell this sort of story, but it seems like some of it definitely had to be based on reality. Joey got along great with her family, talked sports with dad, having some real talk with her sister, they clearly were liking him a lot more than Dotun. I don't think they disliked him, but they just didn't click as well right away, possibly because Dotun was nervous about being the second guy to meet the family or just because he isn't as outgoing as Joey. Then Charity got mad that her family liked Joey more than Dotun, who was clearly her number one choice, and didn't like what she head from them. 

Glad they went with the audience contestant that they did, if you cant find anyone to date in New York City good luck finding it on reality TV. I was rooting for the girl with the cast, that was cute. 

Jessie is such a great host, he was having so much fun drawing out the "shocking twist" he's great at being very sincere when he needs to be while also clearly being in on the joke. 

I like Charity and Dotun, they seem like a good match and like truly nice people, I really hope it works out, even if Dancing With the Stars is going to really eat up their time as a newly engaged couple. I think that Joey will be a good Bachelor, or at least he'll come out alright.

[Black Knight]

On 8/23/2023 at 8:14 AM, Katie111 said:

I hate when these contestants go on DWTS.  It just puts such a strain on their new relationship (doesn't Dotun have to go back to his job at some point?)

Dotun mentioned in an interview that he's able to work remotely. So it could work out well enough, he can work while she's training etc. Not really that much different from any couple where both of them work.

[dleighg]

so Charity was a therapist before all this, right? Does anyone know if she's intending to return to that job, after her "other jobs"?

[LuvMyShows]

On 8/21/2023 at 9:01 PM, dleighg said:

Seems to me that Charity had already decided on Dotun, but is upset that her family seems to see more "glow" with Joey. Like when you flip a coin for something you think you are undecided about, and are upset at what comes up.

Yep. If she had truly been undecided, then checking out her own reaction to her family's more negative reaction to Dotun, would have absolutely helped her realize what her decision was.

On 8/21/2023 at 9:09 PM, dizzyd said:

Why is she having this argument with her family. They already told her they like her better with Joey and she didn’t like hearing that. 

Yeah, it was frustrating. Like, girl, you can prefer whoever you prefer, but it doesn't mean your family has to as well!

On 8/22/2023 at 1:01 PM, call me ishmael said:

That’s up to the lead.  Charity obviously liked being flattered.

I wondered if it wasn't more than that. Clearly the producers know who she's going to pick, since the loser always goes first. I almost wonder if Joey somehow let Charity know that he wanted to be able to say his piece regardless of whether he was going to be chosen or not. To go all conspiracy theory for a sec, I'm not saying he knew she was going to choose Dotun, but if he had any doubt that he would be chosen, then going through with the proposal is a good way to have the heartbroken-suitor angle for being the next Bachelor.

On 8/22/2023 at 12:24 PM, Katie111 said:

It seemed like all her sister could muster to say afterwards was that he seemed very smart. 

The thing the sister said that struck me, was she said Dotun was "VERY intentional".  And I think that intensity, combined with the less playfulness and naturalness, made her see them as the less desirable pairing.  The other interesting thing, was that someone (I think it was mom) said Dotun was familiar in terms of they type Charity has fallen for in the past, and then she went on to describe almost a confident playa type of guy that definitely was not Dotun. I wonder if the family just really read him wrong. Even the mom's comment at ATFR about how she feels now about Dotun, did not seem like much of a glowing endorsement.

On 8/22/2023 at 12:24 PM, Katie111 said:

I thought her last date with Joey seemed so much more natural than her date with Dotun.  Even Dotun mentioned it.  

But wasn't part of the reason for that, because she was all in her head after the date with Joey, and not because of any actual lack of naturalness with Dotun?

On 8/22/2023 at 2:43 PM, Rainsong said:

I'm sure it's been observed that Charity's hair-trigger crying jags were just as prominent in her season as the previous one. 

I actually thought she didn't cry much this season...am I forgetting something?

On 8/21/2023 at 10:11 PM, Riplet68 said:

He is so the next bachelor. He’s looking better than ever, he said the right thing in the car, he had nothing but good stuff to say in the hot seat

I found what he said in the car kind of odd, with his comments about just wanting to be with someone and asking the universe when it will be his turn. It was almost like he is looking for someTHING rather than someONE, and that whoever the actual person is, doesn't matter that much.

[call me ishmael]

11 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

wondered if it wasn't more than that. Clearly the producers know who she's going to pick, since the loser always goes first. I almost wonder if Joey somehow let Charity know that he wanted to be able to say his piece regardless of whether he was going to be chosen or not. To go all conspiracy theory for a sec, I'm not saying he knew she was going to choose Dotun, but if he had any doubt that he would be chosen, then going through with the proposal is a good way to have the heartbroken-suitor angle for being the next Bachelor.

I suppose that’s possible but this isn’t the first time it’s happened and it doesn’t really lead to a bachelorship.  Remember it’s taped a long time ago and it’s only after they get a sense of the audience response that they usually choose the next lead.  I would have expected either Xavier or Aaron except they failed their auditions.

 

[ljenkins782]

18 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

I suppose that’s possible but this isn’t the first time it’s happened and it doesn’t really lead to a bachelorship.  Remember it’s taped a long time ago and it’s only after they get a sense of the audience response that they usually choose the next lead.  I would have expected either Xavier or Aaron except they failed their auditions.

 

well, this is also the Bachelor franchise and they're not known for diversity in casting. It seemed unlikely they'd have back-to-back non-white leads.

Quote

Ouch, the meeting with Charity's family was awkward. Some of this might have been creative editing, they took out scenes of Charity's family vibing more with Dotun to tell this sort of story, but it seems like some of it definitely had to be based on reality. Joey got along great with her family, talked sports with dad, having some real talk with her sister, they clearly were liking him a lot more than Dotun. I don't think they disliked him, but they just didn't click as well right away, possibly because Dotun was nervous about being the second guy to meet the family or just because he isn't as outgoing as Joey. Then Charity got mad that her family liked Joey more than Dotun, who was clearly her number one choice, and didn't like what she head from them. 

The thing about creative editing is that they can make up a story out of whole cloth. The lukewarm reaction shots they showed seemed to be the exact same one used repeatedly and I don't think Dotun was even visible in the frame at the time. They presumably had hours and hours of footage of each visit so they really can tell any story they want by selecting specific moments for the 4-5 minute scene they're going to show out of those hours of footage. 

I have no doubt that they got along well with Joey, his most noted characteristic seems to be an ability to show himself to be whatever the person in front of him wants to be, but I find it hard to believe that a family like Charity's would be so super psyched to have her marry a guy kicking around in a tennis club in Hawaii. Dotun's career would ostensibly be more impressive to a family than a guy who teaches tennis for a living. (Admittedly, it beats previous Bachelor "careers" such as pantsopreneur or chicken enthusiast, at least it's a real job, but it's not particularly impressive as a career.) 

[Kerri Johnson]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:01 AM, call me ishmael said:

That’s up to the lead.  Charity obviously liked being flattered.

It's up to the producers. The leads can't control a single thing. 

[call me ishmael]

5 hours ago, Kerri Johnson said:

It's up to the producers. The leads can't control a single thing. 

Umm, doubt that.  They are horrible and manipulate but the leads make choices.

[Hip-to-be-Square]

Do the leads make choices on their makeup and clothing? Some seasons are super glamorous with obvious use of makeup artists, hair stylists and wardrobe stylists, and others are a little too casual.   I remember Katie Thurston's season and some of her outfits looked like she was on a Trader Joes run after binge-watching Netflix the whole day.