S02.E06: All Wrong/S02.E07 The Turnover Day

[aghst]

25 minutes ago, nokat said:

I think the manipulation goes only so far, like providing alcohol, but to encourage a naked man to crawl into bed with a drunk woman, no, that would be on the too far side.

But they love it when Luke is kissing Margot or when Gary was pawing at Daisy.

That is the stuff they air, not edit out of the episode.

That is what they're hoping for when they cast the kind of people that they cast, that they act out once inebriated and that kind of acting out is what they believe brings in the viewers.

[nokat]

5 minutes ago, aghst said:

But they love it when Luke is kissing Margot or when Gary was pawing at Daisy.

That is the stuff they air, not edit out of the episode.

That is what they're hoping for when they cast the kind of people that they cast, that they act out once inebriated and that kind of acting out is what they believe brings in the viewers.

Truth there, and I was not wanting to think that low of them.

[dleighg]

4 minutes ago, aghst said:

That is what they're hoping for when they cast the kind of people that they cast, that they act out once inebriated and that kind of acting out is what they believe brings in the viewers

Yeah I wish they would tone that down: the endless dinners out with everyone getting hammered. I like to see the chef get challenging assignments, I like to see the water toys used, I like to see well-executed beach picnics. We used to see the cities/towns, but apparently no more. That was nice. And sure, the inevitable interpersonal challenges are part of it. But the drunkenness is a bore.

[iMonrey]

9 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

I wondered why Adam would choose to work on a wave-tossed boat. Maybe medication helped in the past but is not working now?

I would think working on a commercial vessel would be far worse than on a luxury yacht, WRT getting motion sickness. 

8 hours ago, Zaffy said:

There is always the possibility that everything we just saw is scripted.
It would not surprise me at all.

I realize "reality" is a relative term on reality TV, but these are decidedly not professional actors. This is going to affect future employment opportunities for the rest of their lives, and Bravo does not pay them enough to retire on. There is no "upside" for Luke or Laura in pretending to be sexual predators. 

There have been so many people who have come off so badly on these types of shows. None of them has ever come forward to claim they were just following a script. Maybe they signed an NDA and fear legal reprisal for doing so, but again, I can't imagine anyone deliberately trashing their own reputations so badly. They don't become "famous" in a good way. I can't see anyone stopping Luke or Laura asking for an autograph or hiring them as a result of this.

[bosawks]

Soooo, I have Margot’s possible slide into alcohol abuse and Junderwhelming’s return to look forward to according to the preview?

Good times…..

[Zaffy]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I realize "reality" is a relative term on reality TV, but these are decidedly not professional actors. This is going to affect future employment opportunities for the rest of their lives, and Bravo does not pay them enough to retire on. There is no "upside" for Luke or Laura in pretending to be sexual predators. 

And you think Bravo cares? or you think Luke, Laura, etc realize what are they doing? 
Most of these people go there to play roles, to satisfy the production and become known. We live in a very shallow era where people will do everything to be famous, even for 15mins. And most of these people are really shallow.

It is more than obvious in the latest seasons of the whole franchise, when the show is reduced to showing people behaving like horny 15 years olds. They might not literary read a script, but they definitely follow a specific routine  dictated by the production.
When the cast is constantly encouraged to go outside, drink like alcoholics and make out in the jacuzzi, filmed while having sex, what do we expect to happen next?

Did any of the production crew stopped Gary from inappropriate touching stews that just entered the boat? No. He is a frakking predator and Bravo loves him.
Maybe he is Luke's hero!
 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Zaffy

[Baltimore Betty]

I really have to laugh at Laura's attempt to be sexy with her sexy talk to Adam, "the bed is sooo hard," Adam ignored her but was just laying there letting her massage him, he was awake so why did he let her continue?

What ever BD is filming or will air next might be giving the editors a lot of extra work cutting out the crew's nights out and what follows after the drinking.

[pasdetrois]

20 hours ago, Zaffy said:

People are idiots and reality productions very manipulative. 

The "scripting" is desperate famewhores who know what producers want and are prepared to deliver it, aided by heavy drinking and occasional mental illness (vulnerability), nudged by producers whispering in said famewhores' ears and clearly manipulating and rewarding their behaviors with camera time and invitations back to the show. Editing plays a big part. Added attractions for the famewhores are the cross-promotions that add more income and media exposure. The boring ones are not invited back.

The famewhores are not hoping to evolve their yachting careers. They want to be discovered by Hollywood, or become influencers, or make a living via sponsored appearances. They've seen this work for some of their colleagues, at least in the short term.  Yachting has nothing to do with it, other than serving as a production set.

Quote

Then it would be a scripted show & not a reality show. It would certainly surprise me if it was scripted & even more so given what transpired.

It's not scripted according to traditional entertainment methods. Reality TV "scripted" means heavily manipulated by production and willing participants to produce a storyline. Producers don't know exactly what will happen each day, but they can predict based on each personality, the environment (e.g., drinking, hot tub, guest cabin access) and their "suggestions."

I posted earlier that I'd read about a sexual assault in one of the Bravo shows (unknown). The more I think about it and how things have unfolded, I think that post was referring to the Luke and Laura scenario. The timing fits. It's possible that when it happened, someone made the anonymous post in real-time or a little later. Meanwhile, in real-time, production already had the footage but instead of hiding it, they decided to course-correct by adding the talking heads and re-orient the editing. As others have suggested, production scrambled to react and salvage Bravo's reputation because they were worried about being exposed.

Drunken, naked men and women crawl into each others' bunks all of the time on this show, and in the guest cabins. Haven't we heard at least one other drunken guest cabin incident where - a man I think - kept saying no while a woman crawled all over him? I believe there have been other very ugly incidents, caught on camera or sound, that we don't know about. Luke's behavior was notable because of his violence in slamming the doors and refusing to cooperate with the camera crew.

Edited August 11, 2023 by pasdetrois

[sugarbaker design]

40 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Luke's behavior was notable because of his violence in slamming the doors and refusing to cooperate with the camera crew.

Being naked while doing so didn't help.

[MartyQui]

2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

Haven't we heard at least one other drunken guest cabin incident where - a man I think - kept saying no while a woman crawled all over him?

That was Gary and the stew with an OnlyFans account.  

[iMonrey]

5 hours ago, Zaffy said:

When the cast is constantly encouraged to go outside, drink like alcoholics and make out in the jacuzzi, filmed while having sex, what do we expect to happen next?

I agree the cast is encouraged to get drunk and sex it up. That's different than being "scripted." Nobody told Luke to get naked and crawl into bed with a passed out Margot. 

6 hours ago, Zaffy said:

And you think Bravo cares? or you think Luke, Laura, etc realize what are they doing?

Bravo cares to the extent they don't want to be sued and they don't want their biggest franchise to lose ratings because of negative backlash.

As for Luke and Laura, they know what they are doing in the moment. Luke may or may not actually remember doing it after sobering up, but he knew what he was doing when he was doing it. He made a beeline for Margot's room the second the lights went out. 

Luke's life is likely in shambles because of this. He's going to be known as a would-be rapist everywhere he goes. Laura, unfortunately, is probably a different story because there's such a double standard. She might actually get some work as a "sexy villain" somewhere, but Luke crossed a line in this Me Too movement he's never going to be able to uncross.

[aghst]

They're not following a literal script.

Nor are they directed to be sexually aggressive.

But it's more likely the producers gaslighting them, like telling Luke that Margot really likes him, really wants it from him.

Or something similar with Laura, like Adam just needs to be brought out of his shell, don't give up.

I think producers are under pressure to produce "good footage" and rather than leaving it up to chance, they're going to try to manipulate and get the cast drunk, to increase odds of them acting wild.

As someone noted above, it's a whole toxic production environment, with constant pressure to deliver ratings.

BD shows have progressively gotten worse as far as drunken drama and hookups.

If the producers of one show delivered a season where things were relatively sedate, they might fear for their jobs.  They want the shows to generate a lot of social media buzz, including from celebrity fans.  Unfortunately, the things which are going to "go viral" are these moments of extreme behavior -- fights, loud arguments, making out, etc.

What would happen if there was a BD season where nobody was fired, people didn't fight or argue, they get along all throughout the season and all the work is competently done and the crew go out but have nice evenings and there's no or very little hooking up other than some sedate kisses here and there?

Would Bravo bring back most of that cast or bring in more cast who are likely to stir up drama in the very next season?

Would the producers be praised and tell them to keep up the good work or would they be dressed down and told they need to produce "good television" which in the Bravo context means confrontations, drunken acting out, melodrama?

I think we all know the answers.

[Zaffy]

16 minutes ago, aghst said:

I think producers are under pressure to produce "good footage" and rather than leaving it up to chance, they're going to try to manipulate and get the cast drunk, to increase odds of them acting wild.

They never leave anything up to chance.
In Greece we have a very "reality" version of MasterChef, that it could work as a seminar for reality TV producers. All contestants sleep in the same house during the whole duration of the show and there is always a villain. From day one. And if the current villain leaves the show, they just move on to the next villain. They just need an idiot contestant and a lot of editing.  And at the end, the good guy/girl always wins. So they audience is happy.  I do not think cooking is really  involved on how they "select" the winner.
But the truly astonishing thing is, that even after 7 MasterChefs the vast majority of the contestants fall in the same trap and easily become villains. This is good Reality TV producing. And appalling at the same time...

[Shrek]

1 hour ago, Zaffy said:

Dear... Kevin Spacey is now an innocent man making movies again.
There is a strong chance nobody will remember Luke's crime soon.

 

 

As you say Kevin Spacey is an innocent man so why shouldn't he be making movies now? 

Luke isn't an innocent man as what he did is on film & seen by however many people have watched it, as such it will certainly follow him in the yachting world where he will no doubt find it hard getting employment. He won't be remembered anywhere else as he will probably go back to the obscurity from which he came & deservedly so.

There's a saying in the UK that today's frontpage news is tomorrow's chip wrapper so whatever the modern equivalent is will apply here. 

[kassa]

Ah, reality show manipulation.  I remember Penn Jillette saying that on celebrity apprentice they'd put everybody except ONE person in the van and make them sit for an hour while they filmed a talking head, even though the hotel was literally a block away from  the set and they could walked back in minutes. But they wanted them trapped, hot, tired, irritated, and talking trash about the person who was not present.  Manipulating conditions improves the odds of certain outcomes, and they're very good at it.

I think I recall them saying production doesn't stay on the boat overnight, so I shudder to think what might have happened if Luke had waited until they were gone.  

I found this episode disturbing, but well produced. The women's reactions (with one glaring exception) were relatable. I hope Margot gets the support she needs since this must be bringing a bunch of stuff up now that the information is "out there."

Aesha's voice can drive toothpaste through a brick wall at times, but she is one good person (and boss).

[WhiskeyVictor]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

What would happen if there was a BD season where nobody was fired, people didn't fight or argue, they get along all throughout the season and all the work is competently done and the crew go out but have nice evenings and there's no or very little hooking up other than some sedate kisses here and there?

Have an exceptionally lovely Welsh blonde do some twerking. That'll improve the ratings nicely. 😉🥰😍

[meep.meep]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:28 AM, rur said:

In one of the episodes, he said that he'd forgotten to take his medication. 

I'll admit that it's never affected me, and what little I know about seasickness comes from Horatio Hornblower novels. In those, he got sick every time he set sail, but knew he'd adapt after a few days. I thought it would be the same for Adam, but since that isn't so, I, too wonder why he'd want to work on a boat. Was the lure of the 15 minutes of fame so great?

 

He is supporting his family.  Being on BD pays better than on commercial vessels - that's what he was doing before this.

His entire attitude suggests that he is regretting his decision to take this job.

[iMonrey]

8 hours ago, Shrek said:

There's a saying in the UK that today's frontpage news is tomorrow's chip wrapper so whatever the modern equivalent is will apply here. 

Except that in this day and age, virtually any prospective employer will Google you and look at your social media before hiring you. And they aren't going to like what they find when they look up Luke. Any company that's got an HR department is going say "no way."

Granted, he can probably get a job on a boat somewhere that doesn't do background checks or where internet access isn't widely available. But he's going to be seriously limited in what he can do and where he can go for a long time.

If I were him I'd be seriously afraid to even leave the house right now. 

[Baltimore Betty]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Except that in this day and age, virtually any prospective employer will Google you and look at your social media before hiring you. And they aren't going to like what they find when they look up Luke. Any company that's got an HR department is going say "no way."

Granted, he can probably get a job on a boat somewhere that doesn't do background checks or where internet access isn't widely available. But he's going to be seriously limited in what he can do and where he can go for a long time.

If I were him I'd be seriously afraid to even leave the house right now. 

Isn't this about the time that a PR person would recorded recommend him going to some sort of rehab and work on yourself and show amends and then make a statement sometime down the road that after much therapy they now have reflected on the bad behaviors, etc...because I feel like that is what needs to happen with both of those idiots. 

[aqusdealer]

I'm glad the chickens have come home to roost. I can still recall how uncomfotable it was to watch Ashton stand and turn around in the van to intimidate Kate Chastain with his brand of drunken anger. He even used to joke about a personality change when he would drink , predicting "Smashton" might come out tonight. To my knowledge, production did nothing at the time.

Edited August 12, 2023 by aqusdealer

[psychoticstate]

On 8/10/2023 at 12:28 PM, rur said:

In one of the episodes, he said that he'd forgotten to take his medication. 

I'll admit that it's never affected me, and what little I know about seasickness comes from Horatio Hornblower novels. In those, he got sick every time he set sail, but knew he'd adapt after a few days. I thought it would be the same for Adam, but since that isn't so, I, too wonder why he'd want to work on a boat. Was the lure of the 15 minutes of fame so great?

 

I get motion sick so I stay away from boats.  I do wonder if Adam's meds work in general but he seemed worst off on the first day and then when it raining and storming and the boat was bouncing around.  In waters like that, even people with strong stomachs can feel queasy.  

Anyhow, I do know of a few pilots that suffer with motion sickness.  Apparently it does get better as your system gets "used" to the motion.  

On 8/11/2023 at 11:27 AM, MartyQui said:

That was Gary and the stew with an OnlyFans account.  

I'll admit I thought of Gary and Ashley from BDSY when watching Laura.   Ashley did the same thing to Gary, climbing all over when he said no and then basically assaulting him when he was drunk.  As I recall, he told her no and she replied with "you're already inside me," or something to that effect.  

In that case, production didn't interfere with Ashley dragging Gary into a guest bedroom and having some sort of sexual act with him.  They also didn't stop her when she was all over Tom (?) after both had been drinking.   I'm glad they stepped in with Margot -- maybe they draw the line when a person is unconscious.  My guess is they stepped in with Laura and Adam because of what Luke had already done.  After all, if this had been BDSY and Adam had been Gary or Tom and Laura had been Ashley, I think they would have let things play out.  

On 8/11/2023 at 2:06 PM, WhiskeyVictor said:

Have an exceptionally lovely Welsh blonde do some twerking. That'll improve the ratings nicely. 😉🥰😍

Please NO.  As much as I like Courtney, I was sick to death of her constant twerking.

[WhiskeyVictor]

3 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

Please NO.  As much as I like Courtney, I was sick to death of her constant twerking.

Constant? 🤨 Occasional, certainly, but not constant.

I guess I have a much higher twerk-threshold than some people. 😄

[SemiCharmedLife]

6 hours ago, WhiskeyVictor said:

Constant? 🤨 Occasional, certainly, but not constant.

I guess I have a much higher twerk-threshold than some people. 😄

You absolutely do!

[Shrek]

18 hours ago, psychoticstate said:

  

I'll admit I thought of Gary and Ashley from BDSY when watching Laura.   Ashley did the same thing to Gary, climbing all over when he said no and then basically assaulting him when he was drunk.  As I recall, he told her no and she replied with "you're already inside me," or something to that effect.  

In that case, production didn't interfere with Ashley dragging Gary into a guest bedroom and having some sort of sexual act with him.  They also didn't stop her when she was all over Tom (?) after both had been drinking.   I'm glad they stepped in with Margot -- maybe they draw the line when a person is unconscious.  My guess is they stepped in with Laura and Adam because of what Luke had already done.  After all, if this had been BDSY and Adam had been Gary or Tom and Laura had been Ashley, I think they would have let things play out.  

 

It's a totally different production company which may be the reason for that.

[nokat]

49 minutes ago, Shrek said:

It's a totally different production company which may be the reason for that.

Many of us commented on that episode.

[aghst]

Different production company but ultimately Bravo writes the checks and dictates what they want.

And Bravo gets the final edit on what airs.

These production companies are under pressure to produce and they see what other BD shows are doing.

There is definitely a progression from earlier BD seasons to later ones.

Just as we see a progression towards trashy behavior and scenes from the first Southern Charm season to later seasons.

[Shrek]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Different production company but ultimately Bravo writes the checks and dictates what they want.

 

Bravo might air it & write a check for the right to do so,  they also probably own the franchise name in this case but they cannot be responsible for how people behave once across international borders, all they do is make, buy or sell tv programs. Look at it another way, is the tv channel in the Netherlands or wherever Big Brother started responsible for what goes on in the USA BB house? Or does it just apply to American tv programs in other countries?  It's a little different with the other Below Deck shows as they are directly employed by Bravo to make the show in Europe.

American Idol is the same, the original was called pop idol in the UK and Simon C owns the name and dictates the format, so is he responsible for what happens in every country where the name is used ? Of course he doesn't.

 

[aghst]

Who do you think edits the footage before it airs, the local production company or Bravo?

Who has the final say in the edits?

 

 

[Shrek]

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Who do you think edits the footage before it airs, the local production company or Bravo?

Who has the final say in the edits?

 

 

Editing footage & blaming them for what happened in Australia are 2 totally different things, a bit like comparing apples to sausages, one has zero to do with the other. 

Anyway enough of who's fault it was in this instance, it was Luke who committed the offence, end of discussion. 

[aghst]

25 minutes ago, Shrek said:

Editing footage & blaming them for what happened in Australia are 2 totally different things, a bit like comparing apples to sausages, one has zero to do with the other. 

Anyway enough of who's fault it was in this instance, it was Luke who committed the offence, end of discussion. 

Not blaming anyone.

It's a question of who's responsible for what airs and what we viewers see.

If Bravo wanted, they could have cut out the whole scene of Luke going into Margot's room.

They also could have cut out the firing scenes too, even if the production company filmed them.

They could have just said for whatever reason, they're replacing those two crew members.

Other companies have suppressed similar incidents.  The most infamous one is what happened on MTV The Challenge.  Some off-camera incident occurred and they banned certain cast members, like permanently, from the show, without official explanation.

Bravo could have done something similar.

It's all up to them, since they control what gets aired.

[Snarky McSnarky]

On 8/8/2023 at 12:43 PM, dleighg said:

I am watching now and haven't gotten to all this serious stuff, but I came here to talk about the extremely serious issue of squeezing limes. While I agree that fresh lime juice is far superior to bottled, did anyone notice Laura squeezing the limes BY HAND? If you need quantities, you have to use one of those fancy pants metal squeezers if you expect to get anything out of them!

Of all the things for Laura to be concerned about.  The guests were solar panel salesmen from Bakersfield.  Fine Dining in Bakersfield is any restaurant without a drive-through window.  I doubt that any of them would notice the difference between bottled lime juice and fresh squeezed limes.

[Zaffy]

ok just a little bit off topic.
I want to apologize to the person I replied to with "Dear....". (I cant remember who and the comment was deleted).
English is not my native language, I did not think this could be offensive, I  thought "in Greek" when I wrote my comment.  
Sorry again.

[Baltimore Betty]

32 minutes ago, Zaffy said:

ok just a little bit off topic.
I want to apologize to the person I replied to with "Dear....". (I cant remember who and the comment was deleted).
English is not my native language, I did not think this could be offensive, I  thought "in Greek" when I wrote my comment.  
Sorry again.

Seriously after watching some very offensive things on BD+ yours seems like a lesser offense, it's not like you got in bed naked with someone who was passed out drunk and never expressed a desire to sleep with you, lol.

I want to go to Greece so badly!

[iMonrey]

19 hours ago, aghst said:

If Bravo wanted, they could have cut out the whole scene of Luke going into Margot's room.

They also could have cut out the firing scenes too, even if the production company filmed them.

They could have just said for whatever reason, they're replacing those two crew members.

Technically anything is possible but Below Deck has never just disappeared a crew member and not explained why. It would just raise far more questions than it would be worth. 

It's very rare for us to see production, a camera crew or a producer, they really try hard not to break that fourth wall. I think that speaks to how this was something they had to show, there just wasn't a good way around it. I think the only alternative would have been to shut the whole thing down and either cancel or reboot the season.

[SemiCharmedLife]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Technically anything is possible but Below Deck has never just disappeared a crew member and not explained why. It would just raise far more questions than it would be worth. 

It's very rare for us to see production, a camera crew or a producer, they really try hard not to break that fourth wall. I think that speaks to how this was something they had to show, there just wasn't a good way around it. I think the only alternative would have been to shut the whole thing down and either cancel or reboot the season.

I find it very interesting that nothing was leaked about this episode beforehand.  I've heard no buzz about it and nothing was mentioned in the spoiler threads.  Also, when Aesha was asked on WWHL who was a better fit for Margot, Luke or Harry, Aesha said Luke.  Strange!  I wonder if they were advised to answer all questions as if they were on the show's current timeline.  Maybe all the brouhaha from Daisy's interview there changed how the BD guests can answer.

[Me from ME]

Quote

Technically anything is possible but Below Deck has never just disappeared a crew member and not explained why.

Actually, several years ago on one of the original Below Deck franchises a male deck hand posted something racist/misogynistic to his social media after the season had been taped. Production recut the footage and he was disappeared although he remained onboard.  I can't remember if there was an explanation or not.

[RoseAllDay]

50 minutes ago, Me from ME said:

Actually, several years ago on one of the original Below Deck franchises a male deck hand posted something racist/misogynistic to his social media after the season had been taped. Production recut the footage and he was disappeared although he remained onboard.  I can't remember if there was an explanation or not.

It was BDM, I think Hannah’s last season. This POS, Pete, had a really bad habit of saying disgusting, sexual things in front of the women, as well as just being a overall sexist dick. Bugsy complained to Sandy, who, in true Sandy style, gave him a stern talking to and said she could fire him, but just banished him to swabbie. But post-production, his social media posts came out and he was basically edited out. He can still be seen in the background in some scenes, though. He should have been cut loose. 

This is why I really respected Jason for kicking Luke’s ass off the boat. ENOUGH, Bravo, of the double standards, free passes, and misogyny. If it was the production company’s call to intervene in Luke’s attempted rape, then 👏 to them.

I doubly respect the show for demonstrating that men can be sexually harassed too (not going to rehash my post on this), and that NO means NO. I’ve watched a few episodes this afternoon and Laura’s behavior toward Adam was predatory. She was no femme fatale, just a gross, obviously needy human.

[Me from ME]

Thanks for filling in the details.

[rur]

In case there's been any doubt as to who's really in charge of the hiring and firing,   take a look at what the producer says in the 7th paragraph. 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/every-time-production-had-step-164017742.html

[Passing Strange]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:51 AM, Shrek said:

It's a totally different production company which may be the reason for that.

People keep getting this confused. It's not so. 51 minds is the production company for all Below Deck shows except Adventure.

[RoseAllDay]

Watching the Never Before Scene. I found it quite telling that when Laura, who really had no idea what was going on, was trying to talk to Luke, he got very defensive and said “I had nothing to do with her.” That screams to me what his exact intentions were for Margot. Still one of the most disturbing Bravo episodes I’ve seen. Margot owes Aesha plenty for sensing what was up with Luke.

(I orginally posted this under the thread for another episode. Whoops.)

Edited August 29, 2023 by RoseAllDay

[MamaGee]

On 8/9/2023 at 1:45 PM, psychoticstate said:

Given Laura's comments to Margot, I have to wonder if she's been assaulted herself and/or thinks this is just normal, drunken behavior, especially if you've been "flirty" with someone.  Regardless, her comments were disgusting, as was her refusal to listen to what Adam was saying and pawing and climbing all over him

I am not trying to make excuses for Laura but I think when evaluating her behavior and her response to Luke's firing, we need to remember where she comes from. Latvia is less than a generation out of communism. I have zero doubt that "boys will be boys" behavior is to the extreme there and has been for a long, long time. Based on her comments and actions, I could easily see Laura being a woman who decided to lean into her sexuality, to the point of becoming a predator, in order to avoid ever being the victim. Kind of a "beat them at their own game" type attitude. It doesn't excuse her behavior but I wouldn't be surprised if it was some extreme coping mechanism she learned early on. 

Also, I feel really, really bad for Adam. He did everything he could to get her to stop. If someone hadn't intervened, what options did he have left, especially in the moments that she was most aggressive towards him. I feel like women have the option of kneeing a guy in the crotch but what can a man do???

[Chickabiddy]

I am late to the game on this show. How did I miss it was airing its second season? I dunno busy summer, I guess. I just had to chime in with my two cents.

Bravo may create a toxic, hyper-sexualized, alcohol-fueled environment where participants are egged on to engage in scripted, trashy, lascivious sexcapades, but that is not the same thing as condoning SA. I mean, many nightclubs create a similar environment most nights of the week, but that does not remove personal responsibility or accountability. 

After watching Luke's aggressive Cromagnon approach to flirting and kissing, I have no doubt he went into Margot's room with the intention of having sex with her, whether she consented or not. Her lack of enthusiastic consent never stopped him before from kissing or pawing at her. He got up in her bunk naked and was holding her from behind. From my perspective, he was angry at the producers for interrupting his plans to take what he wanted. He showed no embarrassment at being naked. He was pissed that the producers got in the way, and was not going to back down until he got what he wanted. 

I am not one to react to things with emotion, but watching that scene and writing about it now gives me chills. We were watching a real-life SA in progress, and we saw a predator react angrily and aggressively when his plans were interrupted and eventually thwarted.

I am not a prude by any means and generally don't have a problem with CONSENTING adults behaving badly together if that is their jam. But a naked man jumping into bed with a passed-out woman represents the lowest of low human behavior. There can be no excuse or justification based on toxic environment, alcohol consumption, mixed signals, or the producers wanting it, to justify violating the personal boundaries of an unconscious human being. And if that is how Luke acts in close, confined quarters with witnesses and cameras all around, just how dangerous is he when he is alone with a woman? I shudder to think. 

Luke is a sickening and vile individual, and I hope that episode haunts him socially and professionally for the rest of his life. And Laura can fuck right off, too for defending and seeking to protect a predator. I don't care what culture she grew up in or how hard her childhood was; she is as vile a predator as Luke, and I hope this haunts her, too. 

Ok, rant over. Thanks, everyone. 

[aghst]

Unfortunately, a young woman or even a teen girl being victim of sexual assault while blacked out drunk is not that uncommon an occurrence.

I remember hearing that some unbelievable large percentage of girls fall victim to such scenarios, drinking too much, maybe even spiked drinks, then being taken advantage of.

 

[Chickabiddy]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

Unfortunately, a young woman or even a teen girl being victim of sexual assault while blacked out drunk is not that uncommon an occurrence.

I remember hearing that some unbelievable large percentage of girls fall victim to such scenarios, drinking too much, maybe even spiked drinks, then being taken advantage of.

 

Agree totally.  Brock Turner, anyone? And what galls me about that is the judge didn’t want to ruin his bright future with a too harsh sentence. 🙄😡

What shocks me about this situation is that Luke was so blinded by his sense of masculine entitlement that he thought nothing of violating a woman’s space and boundaries with people all around….and people with CAMERAS. And when the producers tried yo stop him he was indignant with rage. And while all of this is only my opinion, my opinion is that Luke is a dangerous predator. He seemed far too comfortable while in action and was too bewildered as to what the problem was the next day.