S09.E01: Duggars & Mothers

[DangerousMinds]

The divorce rate is close to 50% in the US, and a lot of those divorcing consider themselves "Christians."

[Maharincess]

Hey, was this an episode on tonight??? My house burned and is totally uninhabitable and will be for a long time. I'm in a hotel with only a few cable channels, few of which I ever watch, and no public tv either, so I'll miss the Roosevelt mini-series, Midwives, and Downtown Abbey. Where can I find TV on line? Please somebody, HELP

Oh wow! I'm so sorry this happened to you. I can't answer your question, I just wanted to say how sorry I am. I hope everybody is ok.

[roamyn]

Maharincess, my condolences on ur trying times.

My brother & SIL's home burned down (almost completely) and I emphasize with what ur dealing with, and will continue tob desl with.

[GEML]

For a long time Christians were at lower rates for divorce, but rated their marriages much less happy over all. But that had sort of even out now, with their divorce rates in keeping with the rest of the US. The important thing to keep in mind though is that the best indication for divorce is a previous divorce. First marriage rates are still fairly solid. Only one in four first marriages end in divorce.

The Duggars children almost certainly will have some divorces. And they will have some marriages that stay together but aren't happy ones. And there will be happy ones. But as someone who knows a bunch of Christians who married pretty young in college and looking back 25 years later, I don't think there is any way to tell who those people will be from this point.

Edited September 6, 2014 by GEML

[Fostersmom]

I have no problem with Jill and Derick getting the "mansion" while the others didn't. The mansion wasn't owned when Josh married, but he and Anna got a house and the car lot. And then a DC job and wan't it said JB owned that house too? I'll assume Jessa will also get a house and Ben has been given a job. Derick has a good career, so Jill got the nice house. It seems totally fair to me. I know people like to see JB as some big master manipulator, but I don't think he is. I think he honestly just wants to provide nice things for his kids and for them to be happy. Yes, JB seems to not like Ben, but would you like Ben if Jessa was your daughter? I wouldn't. I'd be polite and cordial, but standoffish. Ben is young, has no means of support, and doesn't strike me as particularly ambitious to gain those means. JB may come off as a rube, but he's a very business savvy rube and knows Jessa and the inevitable babies will need money and a decent lifestyle. I don't for a minute think he wants her to end up like Priss and TFDW or the Anna's other sister who is living in a third world country hut with her idiot husband and their 8 kids all in the name of Jesus. Plus, let's be honest, JB obviously put a lot of money into refurbing the mansion and it's a big house. I could see Jessa and Ben letting it get almost as bad as it was when bought, she doesn't strike me as the domestic Holly Hobby homemaker type like Jill and Ben doesn't scream like a proud about my yard/house kind of guy either. 

 

I loved seeing Joy haul Ben around the property pointing out all sorts of work for him. She seemed to take particular glee in it. I loved the poison ivy part since I'm fairly certain she just made that shit up. I've never seen any of the Duggars have poison ivy and it is nearly impossible to miss if a couple of the boys or JB had it.

 

The cooking Jill and Jessa didn't bother me either. They were feeding an army. The Duggars, the Seewalds, Derick and his brother, and were the Hantoros there too? They've obviously been shopping at Sam's Club, I have a bag of those exact strawberries in my freezer that I got at Sam's. I would have thrown a couple of Stouffers lasagnas in the oven too, doctored up with some added cheese to the top at the end and stuck under the broiler for a few minutes. But then, the recipe my family uses for lasagna involves a ton of layers and isn't exactly cheap to make. The frozen ones are cheaper and a LOT quicker. The bag of lettuce Jessa opened is like $7 at Sams, heads of romaine would be just as much and need cleaned and chopped. I have no idea where they got the frozen rolls, but those looked good and I wouldn't mind having a bag of them in my freezer so I could just make 1 or 2 at a time. I did question the sugar water Jessa was making for the berries though. I couldn't imagine what kind of mush that would turn the berries into. If they had planned better, those would have been out of the freezer and covered in a couple of cups of sugar well before they even thought of cooking anything else for the day. Strawberries already are mostly water, adding another gallon wasn't going to do anything good. 

[jodo]

I do recall an episode and JB was covered in poison ivy and he and Michelle were working hard at covering him with lotion and they commented all JB had to do was look at poison ivy and how easy it was for him to get it.

 

I agree buying lasagna is cheaper than making it.  When I used to make my own I was always amazed at how expensive it was and the frozen stuff is good!  

Edited September 6, 2014 by jodo

[Fostersmom]

I loved lasagna when I was a kid, but my mom was a single mom and money was very tight. We got lasagna once a year, on my birthday because it was so expensive. Granted, she only knew how to make a giant ass roaster of it and it fed us forever. Last time my sister made it, using the same recipe, she weighed it and it was 20 pounds and probably cost her $20 to make if not more, just for that, nothing else. The big ones Jessa bought are like $12, and a hell of a lot easier. Plus, seeing as she doesn't really know how to cook, bad lasagna is just a gross waste of money. 

 

I wonder if JB is more allergic to poison ivy than the rest of them. My mom always manages to catch it in her yard when no one else has ever gotten it. She's super allergic and it always involves a 10 day course of step-down steroids for her to kick it and she's miserable for 2 weeks. 

[superguard9]

Buying lasagna is easier, but it's not like this was a family of 5 trying to cook for 30 or 40 people. If the Duggars were as thrifty and good in the kitchen as they claim, they would have figured out a bunch of cheaper ways to prepare lots of different foods a long time ago, not just tater tot casserole.

[ginger90]

Have we ever seen them use crock pots?

[truthtalk2014]

Does anyone out there have the nutritional info on Tater Tot Casserole?    I'm sure it fills them, but what is the nutritional content?  I would love to know.  

[Absolom]

Jim Bob did not own the DC house.  That was a story a couple of people told because of an address change.

[LazyToaster]

You know those big electric roasters like they use for church dinners? A couple of those would cook a lot of food for big groups like this.

I am just surprised that since they try to convince us how frugal they are that they haven't come up with a better way to serve big meals.

[PinkSprinkles]

I'm also surprised we've never seen a giant soup bar. There are plenty of easy soups out there that you can make in the morning and let simmer for the entire day so people can eat from them at will. A chicken noodle (homemade), potato (w/bacon bits), tortilla (w/chicken, pinto & black beans, fresh tomatoes), and beef & vegetable soup bar would be incredibly easy to set up for a party. 

[Maharincess]

Maharincess, my condolences on ur trying times.

My brother & SIL's home burned down (almost completely) and I emphasize with what ur dealing with, and will continue tob desl with.

It was actually Micks Picks who's house burned down. I was just offering my condolences for the situation.

[trimthatfat]

I had frozen lasagna once and found it so disgusting. Since this was a special occasion, I think the Duggars could have splurged on the ingredients for a fresh one. I know that it's expensive to cook every day for a large group of people, but the Duggars could get creative if they wanted to. It's too late for that now though.

[Lillybee]

They need to buy whole chickens when they go on sale and roast about 5 for their family in their convection ovens. They could serve them with baked potatoes and a veg. It would be a nice easy meal and a lot tastier than the crap that they do eat.

[CofCinci]

Joyless Anna found her bliss while bossing Ben around as they drove around the property.  This is the first episode where I felt true empathy for Ben.  They're going to use that kid like a workhorse.  Each night he'll retire alone to that fire hazard of a bedroom and that just so sad.

[Portia]

My main complaint about the non-cooking was that I'm pretty sure one of the girls--I guess it was Jessa?--made a comment about wanting to impress her inlaws with her cooking...I didn't make that up, did I? I remember thinking Dang, girl, if you whipped up a big ol' batch of meat loaf and a mess of mashed potatoes, that would be some actual cooking.

[Ripley68]

rewatching now.  My second take on the Ben ambush; Ben looked happier than I thought. When boob first says it, he looks excitedly at Jessa, and after all is said and done, he and Jessa give a little "squee" to each other.

 

Joyanna's pursed lips when Jana says that their mom is kind pretty much says it all.

[starfire]

I have tried a lot of brands of frozen lasagna, and while some are okay, none of them compare to homemade.

[Hpmec]

I got the impression Ben was somewhat unhappily forced into the living arrangement. It was all JimBoob's doing, and now the poor kid is officially owned by the future in-laws and has no choice but to do their bidding. I wouldn't wish that on anybody. Not a good development. At all.

[trimthatfat]

nvm.

Edited September 8, 2014 by trimthatfat

[floridamom]

I can't understand why Ben's parents would want that for their son with any potential future in-laws. I also would think that his parents would want him to complete his education or training for his future work. This boy is only 19. Is his father that afraid that he might "discover himself" in the shower? I think to gamble with your son's whole future life is a sin in itself. I can't figure the Seewalds out as to where they really stand. Mr. Seewald's rants on his facebook say one thing, but his appearances on the show indicate another...I would want my son to stay clear of men like Jim Bob. His mother, IMO, is worthless as a mother. I can say that because I am a mother of sons in their 20s. I'd strongly advise my son differently.

[Hpmec]

Florida Mom, I think the power of the easy money that the Duggars represent to the Seewalds is the motivation for selling out their son. By hooking up with a Duggar daughter, Ben is becoming a tv personality and will be, if not already, collecting a sizble TLC paycheck. Where else but on the show could a not very bright Arkansas teenager with limited options make some potentially serious cash. The fact that he had to sell his soul to JimBoob in order to do it probably isn't much of a concern to Ben or his parents, who are probably being paid for their appearances too.

[Oldernowiser]

If Bin is making $10k a year as an honorary Duggar, I'll get a "ONW loves the Duggars" tattoo in a highly visible place.

I can't remember the specifics, because frankly the whole topic annoys me, but I seem to remember that every time this topic comes up it turns out that the family is getting paid one lump sum to some LLC to get around paying them as actors.

If JimBob is paying Bin anything like a full share, assuming there is such a concept in Duggarworld, I'd be flat-assed shocked.

[CofCinci]

Why is the youngest one allowed to crawl all over counters and smash paint on tables when the other ones would get blanket-trained and thrown into prayer closets? I'm sure there are at least 10 kids in that family thinking "I'd get the shit beaten out of me if I pulled that."

Edited September 8, 2014 by CofCinci

[Oldernowiser]

Why is the youngest one allowed to crawl all over counters and smash paint on tables when the other ones would get blanket-trained and thrown into prayer closets? I'm sure there are at least 10 kids in that family thinking "I'd get the shit beaten out of me if I pulled that."

One word: Cameras.

[Fostersmom]

And sister moms. I can't see Jana or Jill beating the kids like they were most likely beaten. I could see Jessa and Joy snapping and smacking them a couple times though! LOL! 

[Mrsjumbo]

Why is the youngest one allowed to crawl all over counters and smash paint on tables when the other ones would get blanket-trained and thrown into prayer closets? I'm sure there are at least 10 kids in that family thinking "I'd get the shit beaten out of me if I pulled that."

[Mrsjumbo]

Although they will never admit it, I think the Duggars must know Josie has some developmental delays. They would be blind not to see it- and any responsible ped. would have brought it up to them, if the kids get well- checks.

I have a DS with autism, & for awhile it was like living with Helen Keller in the dinner scene of The Miracle Worker. Years of therapy have helped but he stills acts inappropriately at times.

[ginger90]

if the kids get well- checks.

 

I wonder if they do. At the very least they need age appropriate screenings. If a doctor is just going by what the parents tell them, that child(Josie and the others), is up shits creek.

[Libby96]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but while I do think Josie has some developmental delays due to her prematurity, I don't think she's a holy terror. We've seen things like putting her mouth on a window, repeating things loudly during TH segments, fussing because she wants a ball the other kids have. She is still four years old. Sometimes kids that age do off-the-wall stuff. I walked into my youngest daughter's room when she was that age and found her name and a smiley face written on the wall. In very large letters. In lipstick.

I guess in short, I do hope Josie has been evaluated and if so is getting some intervention. But even a perfectly typical kid that age will do some crazy and annoying things because they are a kid.

[Sew Sumi]

I haven't seen this addressed in the thread, but I rewatched the episode and was interested in the "This Season" clip they put up front.

 

I called it w/r/t Smuggar's "plot" this season. Anna is not pregnant like the leghumpers seem to think. The clip showed good ole Trainer Steve showing up on Smuggar's doorstep to whip him back into shape....again.

 

Jamsey-bug's eyeroll in a TH was made of win.

[Mrsjumbo]

I haven't watched enough to say if Josie is a holy terror, but I have watched my own child & been around enough SN kids to recognize some very worrisome delays in her.

[GEML]

I have some experience with children with delays, and what would concern me with Josie is that I see an aggression in her that isn't appropriate. I actually wonder if they still aren't using some of the stricter obedience methods but she simply can't respond to them in the way the other kids could and thus she meets aggression with aggression.

[1991 Canadian]

This episode made me realize just how raw a deal the younger duggars are getting. Losing Jill is like losing a mother. My sister is getting married soon but she is only three years older. I am nothing but happy for her. Selfishly speaking, her marriage doesn't effect my life one bit as we've both been out of the nest for years.

 

But to lose daily contact with someone who has been essentially raising you since you were born is a big deal.

 

Also, Josie needs professional help. I have seen the difference early intervention, therapy, etc... has on kids with developmental disabilities. With help, she could be really close to living a normal grown up life (if you consider the other Duggars normal).

[joanofarch4]

I was kind of hoping that Grandma would remarry rather than waste her golden years washing what are probably perfectly clean (I can wear the same clothes over and over unless I spill something on them; have they ever been taught to hang things up prompty or do they just throw everything down the laundry shoot once it's been worn for an hour?), but didn't know if it was against their religion...  If not, RUN!

 

Anyone else disturbed by the behavior of Smugger's three in the "flashbacks"?  Kinzie seems to have regressed to baby speak, Michael is either repeating everything she says or screaming obnoxiously, and Marcus is gazing absently and reaching for the fuzzy overhead microphone.  And the parents just laugh and laugh!  Starring on a reality TV show: so wholesome for young children!

 

I must say, Anna has come along nicely; she was so homely and awkward in the first courting/wedding shows, I could never see what Josh saw in her!   And then there was that "aaaaaaaand" period.  But she has blossomed!

Edited September 9, 2014 by joanofarch4

[joanofarch4]

I don't believe the Duggars really "have" to be thrifty anymore (thanks, TLC), but Michelle made a statement in one of the flashbacks that -- no matter how much money he has -- JB is still frugal by nature or nurture.  The J'Slaves, maybe not so much!  I'd say they've reached the point where convenience and quality of life count for more than making any sacrifice to save a penny, as in the early and lean years...   Mm-mmm; I love Stouffer's frozen lasagna!

Edited September 9, 2014 by joanofarch4

[joanofarch4]

And sister moms. I can't see Jana or Jill beating the kids like they were most likely beaten. I could see Jessa and Joy snapping and smacking them a couple times though! LOL! 

"Obey immediately!"

[flyingdi]

Have we ever had any proof there is physical abuse in this family?

[MamaR]

Just watching the repeat of this episode now and love the part where Bin is talking about how good Jessa is at certain things and the camera then cuts to one of the younger boys (James ?)who is making the best face. Good job TLC on the editing! I could watch that part over and over!

Edited September 10, 2014 by MamaR

[GEML]

Proof that there is it was abuse? No, and I doubt we will ever see it. But the blanket training (where you condition a crawling baby that if you leave that blanket that will result in an immediate switch across it's legs) isn't exactly mainstream discipline, either.

[flyingdi]

I confess I've never even heard of blanket training before this family.  Why not just spring for a playpen?  Having no kids do they even make playpens anymore?

[GEML]

I actually read the Pearl book (which talks about the blanket training, the harsh discipline, and the instant obedience)for myself awhile back. There are a couple of points: it's written for people who have children that are out of control and parents who are already using physical spankings and screaming at their children as a way of trying to control them. It's also written for people with many children, and based off of Amish guidelines which are very strict, but also allow for real periods of rebellions and testing once children have been properly raised.

I think these are important distinctions because again we are seeing the Duggars picking and choosing, and it is always the least pleasant. They did the spanking and the screaming, they admit, and turned to this book for help. Many of us likely would not have turned to this type of book, but they are probably right, when they say technically, there is less hitting and screaming. Yes, their kids are trained. But what they didn't do was give their children the chance to be their own persons. The Bates seem to have done this to a better degree. But that's the whole point of the style - yes you "train" them so you can "discipline" (root word also of disciple) so you can TRUST them. The Duggars can't follow through on that final part.

Edited September 10, 2014 by GEML

[NikSac]

How in the hell does a house go from an assessed value of $1.1 mil all the way down to 53k?! With that much land?! I know when banks do assessments for mortgages they lowball the estimate but Boob purchased the house outright for cash. How did he finagle that one?

 

I wonder if one is an assessed value that includes the property and one is structure only?  I know I was kind of shocked when our homeowners' insurance came out with what our house (structure only) is "worth."  It was really, really low compared to market value. Not quite as far off as this one, but it was surprising.

[WTFFF]

Michelle would hit the kids with a flexible plastic ruler if they ventured off the blanket.  I'd say that qualifies as child abuse, personally. 

 

Michael may just be in the terrible twos (or threes, however old he is now), but he seems like kind of an annoying child.  He reminds me of Jackson as a younger kid; just seems like the kind of kid you can't turn your back on for two seconds.

[GEML]

Michael would have turned three mid-June. I can remember his birthday because he's the same age as my daughter. And I can attest that it's that awkward age where they can go from squawking, hair-raising toddler to startlingly grown up pre-schooler and back again in a five minute time span.

And no, you can't take your eyes off of them for a second! :)

[WTFFF]

I remember someone on instagram asked why Anna was constantly holding Michael in every picture and someone from their church replied "If you knew him, you'd know why she can't put him down!"  I always assumed that that meant that he was one of those walking tornado kids.  That was quite some time ago - I hope for her sake he outgrows it soon!  No wonder she looks exhausted all the time. 

 

I have to say though, that Michael is one of the most freaking adorable kids I've ever seen.  He looks exactly like baby Josh, so I suppose that won't stick, but as he is now, I think he's the cutest thing.  If they were secular folks I'd be insisting that he should model for Baby Gap or something. 

[Zahdii]

I have to say though, that Michael is one of the most freaking adorable kids I've ever seen.  He looks exactly like baby Josh, so I suppose that won't stick, but as he is now, I think he's the cutest thing.  If they were secular folks I'd be insisting that he should model for Baby Gap or something. 

 

They're Duggars.  Josh is used to seeing his parents exploit their children.  If word gets back to him about the idea of making their children models, they'll be shopping them around in a heartbeat.  The only thing that might hold them back is Josh's dream of getting into politics someday.