S06.E09: The Big Chill

[1011101010001]

David and Sheila face an unexpected tragedy; Gino and Jasmine try to get back on track; Cleo worries her autism will affect her relationship; Riley and Violet refuse to speak; Dempsey learns something shocking about Statler.
 

First Look: 7/28/23

Full Episode: 7/30/23

Edited July 29, 2023 by MrBuhBye

[Jade Foxx]

Dempsey learns something shocking about Statler.

That she’s a lunatic? 😂

[Gobi]

3 hours ago, Jade Foxx said:

Dempsey learns something shocking about Statler.

That she’s a lunatic? 😂

Can't be that, it isn't shocking.

[1011101010001]

Caravan does sound more exotic than trailer.

[greekmom]

So Dempsy's family were travellers?!?! Sort of?

 

[judylo]

8 hours ago, greekmom said:

So Dempsy's family were travellers?!?! Sort of?

 

That was my impression!

[Adeejay]

Is it a coincidence that the night David and the camera crew showed up the stairs gave away?  Sheila said that the stairs was weak.  Seems to me that the family knew how to go up and down stairs without incidence.  I have a feeling that the extra weight caused the stairs to break and when the mom got up to go to the bathroom, she fell through.  Just a theory.  

[Chalby]

I don't know why I feel so strongly but I'm not on team Riley at all. I think his expectations are unrealistic and for his age I feel that he is wasting her time playing these games.

11 hours ago, judylo said:

That was my impression!

I got the feeling that they're more like carnies than actual gypsies or are there Irish gypsies (not Roma)?

Edited July 31, 2023 by Chalby

[Chalby]

I get the feeling Statler is using her sexuality to get on the show and showcase her comedic acting. And her non-stop talking about Dempsey and sex and anything that makes the poor girl blush seems like she's overreaching a bit. She wants to come off like a Janine Garofalo as the awkward fast talking comic.

[1011101010001]

1 hour ago, Adeejay said:

Is it a coincidence that the night David and the camera crew showed up the stairs gave away?  Sheila said that the stairs was weak.  Seems to me that the family knew how to go up and down stairs without incidence.  I have a feeling that the extra weight caused the stairs to break and when the mom got up to go to the bathroom, she fell through.  Just a theory.  

Yeah I didn’t think of the crew but David is taller and heavier than the family members and it would be an odd coincidence for it to happen hours after he went up and down the stairs.  Also maybe he stomps because he doesn’t know how noisy it is just like he eats loudly.

Cleo hates crowds but one of her favorite places is a farmers’ market?

1 hour ago, Chalby said:

I get the feeling Statler is using her sexuality to get on the show and showcase her comedic acting. And her non-stop talking about Dempsey and sex and anything that makes the poor girl blush seems like she's overreaching a bit. She wants to come off like a Janine Garofalo as the awkward fast talking comic.

There is a Sarah Silverman vibe too.

[DEL901]

6 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

Yeah I didn’t think of the crew but David is taller and heavier than the family members and it would be an odd coincidence for it to happen hours after he went up and down the stairs.  Also maybe he stomps because he doesn’t know how noisy it is just like he eats loudly.

Cleo hates crowds but one of her favorite places is a farmers’ market?

There is a Sarah Silverman vibe too.

Not just David and the crew but also the equipment they brought.   It would probably have given way eventually but I’m sure filming sped things up. 

[1011101010001]

10 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

Not just David and the crew but also the equipment they brought.   It would probably have given way eventually but I’m sure filming sped things up. 

With no roof there would be a lot of wood rot from rain.

[judylo]

2 hours ago, Chalby said:

I don't know why I feel so strongly but I'm not on team Riley at all. I think his expectations are unrealistic and for his age I feel that he is wasting her time playing these games.

I got the feeling that they're more like carnies than actual gypsies or are there Irish gypsies (not Roma)

Yes, Irish Travellers are a group, not genetically related to Roma. But I don’t know if carnies are Travellers, except they are also itinerant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers

 

[Nuccganggang]

this season is full of fucking assholes. amanda, riley, jasmine, christian, and the fucking janine garafalo wannabe. never has a season been so insufferable. i’m mad that i have been watching this crap. sheila and david are too good for this show and the producers are assholes for airing this

[AR Traveler]

Late to the snark party, but here nonetheless!

Cleo and Christian: Because nothing says "Baby, I'm gonna sex you up" like 1) VR gaming, 2) not showering, 3) wearing an old T-shirt to bed.  Cleo is getting the clues that he's not into her.  "I let the girl make the first move" = "When I get in the sheets, I make Nicola look like Charles Boyer in the Casbah".

Gino and Jasmine: Oh, I want a birthday outing where my sister/mother and her boyfriend (and I do mean boy) talk about her faking orgasm.  Jasmine's really scraping if she thinks a promise ring out of eighth grade is romantic.  

Ever notice when Gino stands up to Jasmine, he crosses his arms and gets the same look on his face as a four year old who doesn't want to pick up his toys?  All that's missing is the stomping foot.

Riley and Violet: By the time your hair is grey (Riley) and the being you gave birth to is smarter than you are (Violet), it's time to stop playing games.  Is blocking the 21st century version of the silent treatment?  I think this is coming back around to a reconciliation, unfortunately.  Violet, honey, you had an out.  Don't let him get away with that behavior.

When I was in China, and this was during the one-child law days, my students (all female, most married) felt intense pressure from their mothers-in-law to give them a grandson.  I see it is the same in Viet Nam in the traditional families.  So it has been for centuries.  Isn't it ironic that it's the father who determines the baby's sex?

David and Sheila: I felt so bad for Sheila and her family.  I really believe at that time the cameras should have been pulled, and maybe just give us updates on how they were doing.  Even if Sheila agreed to be taped, it felt intrusive in a very private and raw time.  

Stapler (HA) and Dempsey: If amenities like hot water and a working toilet were present, that trailer would be adorable.  It's also too remote for me, but for a "staycation", sign me up.  The countryside is absolutely out of Wuthering Heights, but all you can hear is Stapler complaining.  And way to ruin a romantic and fun night by accusing Dempsey of cheating!  Much of Thailand is remote, and the time was crazy different as well.  Dempsey, darling, boy are you in for a surprise when visa-less Stapler wants to move in.  You're right to notice the red flags flapping over a cheat.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by AR Traveler

[athousandclowns]

As poor as that family is I’m sure either the producers or David paid for casket. 

[TwirlyGirly]

More on the others later, but for now:

Gino and Jasmine:

Gino, OMG! 

When Jasmine insisted you hire an immigration attorney, this is what you should have said —

"Jasmine, an immigration lawyer has no authority over the speed at which the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) processes visa applications.

Visa processing ceased for quite a while during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic, so now USCIS has a backlog of applications to process. That's why it's taking as long as it is; not just for us, but for everyone who's applied for a K-1 visa.

Your anger and  impatience over the length of time it's taking won't affect immigration lawyers' lack of authority over the USCIS, nor will it have any effect on the USCIS itself generally, or on our application specifically. 

You and I have only two choices: forget about you coming to the U.S. and getting married, and cancel the K-1 visa application, or we can continue to wait - patiently - for our K-1 visa application to be processed. Then, if it's approved, you can come to the U.S. and we'll marry.

Which do you want to do? "

[Leeds]

I missed the beginning; could someone please explain what happened to Sheila's mother?

[anoninrva]

39 minutes ago, Leeds said:

I missed the beginning; could someone please explain what happened to Sheila's mother?

She fell off the makeshift stairs.  Horrible accident.  It does beg the question about the film crew and David navigating the hovel, however.

[Chalby]

6 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Not just David and the crew but also the equipment they brought.   It would probably have given way eventually but I’m sure filming sped things up. 

Well, she did point out the step wasn't nailed properly, so I can't just assume David and crew caused anything. As well, her mom appeared very aged and incapacitated, so I'm thinking it was a matter of poor timing.

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, AR Traveler said:

David and Sheila: I felt so bad for Sheila and her family.  I really believe at that time the cameras should have been pulled, and maybe just give us updates on how they were doing.  Even if Sheila agreed to be taped, it felt intrusive in a very private and raw time.  

I know. I think they should’ve postponed filming at least until the wake and funeral were over, with David/Sheila giving us updates in the talking heads. I feel horribly for Sheila and her family. David seems to be comforting her the best he can, I think they do care for each other. 

[Stuckathome]

I have been watching this franchise since the pandemic and HOLY SHIT that was a heartbreaking and shocking twist with her mother. And it really does show how fragile life is living in the slum for Sheila's family and everyone like them. I think they did take a break in filming for the 7 days of grieving because we saw the casket being taken to the funeral home and then the burial. My heart breaks for her and her family---I can only imagine her feelings of grief and then also panic that she isn't spending time with David and is potentially losing her ticket out of the slum. And 100%, that would be so hard for her to go back to living in the home where that happened, walking up and down those same stairs. I really hope that David just gets her TF out of there. 

 

I love Dempsey and she is way too good for Statler. But, did I hear it right---she is a traveler? Or grew up in a traveler family? I don't understand why she couldn't just say hey I am freezing do you have more blankets? The farm is gorgeous! 

[Stuckathome]

10 hours ago, AR Traveler said:

Riley and Violet: By the time your hair is grey (Riley) and the being you gave birth to is smarter than you are (Violet), it's time to stop playing games.  Is blocking the 21st century version of the silent treatment?  I think this is coming back around to a reconciliation, unfortunately.  Violet, honey, you had an out.  Don't let him get away with that behavior.

I was rolling my eyes when he was telling his sad, sorrowful tale of how he just wanted a nice date night. You could have had one you dumbass, but you had a friend interrogate her about shit that was well in the past. I sadly think she will give this fool another shot. 

[Doublemint]

13 hours ago, Adeejay said:

Is it a coincidence that the night David and the camera crew showed up the stairs gave away?  Sheila said that the stairs was weak.  Seems to me that the family knew how to go up and down stairs without incidence.  I have a feeling that the extra weight caused the stairs to break and when the mom got up to go to the bathroom, she fell through.  Just a theory.  

I was wondering what she died from - didn't know she fell down stairs!  I agree about the extra weight causing the collapse.

[Leeds]

5 hours ago, Chalby said:

Well, she did point out the step wasn't nailed properly, so I can't just assume David and crew caused anything. As well, her mom appeared very aged and incapacitated, so I'm thinking it was a matter of poor timing.

And I think it is telling that she was upstairs when David visited, which to me suggests that she was normally confined to the upstairs, otherwise why wouldn't she have been downstairs to meet her potential son-in-law?  To me it seems more like someone infirm had perhaps made an ill-advised attempt to do the right thing and be downstairs for the next visit and could no longer navigate the stairs safely, whether or not the unusual recent weight had further damaged them.

[1011101010001]

7 hours ago, Chalby said:

her mom appeared very aged

I think it’s just the living conditions.  Per the dedication at the end she was only 67.

7 hours ago, Chalby said:

the step wasn't nailed properly

You’d think stairs would be one of the things you’d be extra careful about.  

[1011101010001]

2 hours ago, Stuckathome said:

that she isn't spending time with David

I bet David was expecting to have a lot of sex on the trip as they did it the first night but I doubt she would be in the mood while grieving.  Re the mausoleum, do the niches have only five walls?  It looked like they just slide the casket in and then it’s open to the elements?  Can’t see that going well in a tropical climate.  Maybe they come back and close it up after the mourners leave.  But the other ones looked open too.

[Stuckathome]

1 minute ago, MrBuhBye said:

It looked like they just slide the casket in and then it’s open to the elements?  

i think it is until they cover it with a plaque. Several of the others appeared to be covered....similar to here with tombstones. I know for my mother, it took several weeks for the marker to be made adn then because of the time of year they had to wait at the cemetery to place it on the actual grave. If some look to be still open, I assume they are waiting for the marker or maybe those families could not afford it. I also assume that David helped cover the costs for the funeral as I doubt her family had savings. I mean, if you had savings, you would have fixed the roof and stairs of the house. At least, I hope David offered to help out financially. He doesn't seem well off by US standards, but now having seen how they live, I am sure he feels very wealthy. 

[Elizzikra]

2 hours ago, Stuckathome said:

 

 

I love Dempsey and she is way too good for Statler. But, did I hear it right---she is a traveler? Or grew up in a traveler family? I don't understand why she couldn't just say hey I am freezing do you have more blankets? The farm is gorgeous! 

She grew up in a traveler/carnie family but left when she was 18, after her sister died. She lives in the caravan on the farm and works on the farm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

2 hours ago, Stuckathome said:

I was rolling my eyes when he was telling his sad, sorrowful tale of how he just wanted a nice date night. You could have had one you dumbass, but you had a friend interrogate her about shit that was well in the past. I sadly think she will give this fool another shot. 

Is there anything more pathetic than paying a TOUR GUIDE to come in and have a drink and a cigar with you? He and Violet are both awful people. And as others have mentioned, they will probably get back together half-heartedly.

 

12 hours ago, AR Traveler said:

Cleo and Christian: Because nothing says "Baby, I'm gonna sex you up" like 1) VR gaming, 2) not showering, 3) wearing an old T-shirt to bed.  Cleo is getting the clues that he's not into her.  "I let the girl make the first move" = "When I get in the sheets, I make Nicola look like Charles Boyer in the Casbah".

Mrs. RaiderDuck pointed out that when they were lying on the bed, Christian had his left leg tucked under his right so he was literally facing away from her. Remember a few seasons ago when Stephanie M. on The Other Way thought she was in love with Erica but when the moment of truth arrived, didn't want to be intimate with another woman? We're seeing a similar dynamic here. Christian obviously is having second thoughts about being intimate with a trans person, but he should have thought of that before leading her on like this.

The Statler/Dempsey storyline is coming off like a bunch of invented BS from a couple that's probably happily married already. At least they got TLC to pay for the travel and necessary visas.

 

32 minutes ago, Stuckathome said:

i think it is until they cover it with a plaque. Several of the others appeared to be covered....similar to here with tombstones. I know for my mother, it took several weeks for the marker to be made adn then because of the time of year they had to wait at the cemetery to place it on the actual grave. If some look to be still open, I assume they are waiting for the marker or maybe those families could not afford it.

When we visited Cuba the first time, one of our stops in Havana was a cemetery. They explained that people are only buried in coffins for two years, after which they are exhumed and their remains buried with with other people's remains elsewhere in mass graves. This could have been something similar: Most of the coffins are only there temporarily before the remains are moved elsewhere. Only the very rich (by Filipino standards) get permanent spots.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[Breedom]

12 hours ago, AR Traveler said:

Ever notice when Gino stands up to Jasmine, he crosses his arms and gets the same look on his face as a four year old who doesn't want to pick up his toys? 

I think he feels very threatened by Jasmine. His facial expressions when she hones in on something are telling. Twitching, grimacing, etc. I was glad when he hit back with not getting her a ring, but it wasn't done firmly enough (and then of course went back and got a promise ring). He's not a confrontational guy and then ultimately gives in.

So who paid for the "L" necklace for Jasmine's sister? Does Jasmine have ANY money or does Gino finance her life? She doesn't seem willing to pay for anything. I think she really loves him, but apparently he has some money - and she expects him to shell over every dime of it to her whims and beauty routines. Jasmine is the sort of person who if she has a nickle in her pocket she will spend it with no thought for the future. Oh, and I don't buy that she's not able to get back into her job, despite the internet pix.

 

[1011101010001]

15 minutes ago, Breedom said:

She doesn't seem willing to pay for anything

She claims she can no longer work as a teacher after her topless pictures were leaked to the internet but there are plenty of other jobs and I assume she just thinks she has this sugar daddy and she is going to milk him for everything.  

I do think it’s funny that she is pushing to move to Michigan because you know when she gets there she will compare his modest home unfavorably to the luxury apartment that she has now.  I gave up a luxury apartment with an ocean view to live in this dump with you!

interesting that Gino’s first wife came on a K-1.  She got the green card and skedaddled.  I think Jasmine might do that if she finds another guy who is hotter/richer but otherwise she will stay because she doesn’t want to work.

19 minutes ago, Breedom said:

but apparently he has some money - and she expects him to shell over every dime of it

It’s his retirement money and she seems to not understand if it is spent now they will live like paupers later.  But maybe she thinks he will die or she will have moved on before then.

[seacliffsal]

My heart is with Sheila.  I think David was very supportive and really learned what life was like for Sheila.  I wonder if Sheila would come to the U.S. leaving her son and father behind (I know she wants to bring her son [but he would have his own visa application]) but am not sure if she would leave her father all alone.  I certainly hope production helped pay the costs and agree with others that all the extra weight up and down the stairs may have led to the tragedy. 

Feel for Cleo, but this shows why meeting in person is so very very important.  Christian could have kept stringing her along online, but in person the truth is coming out.

Statler and her 'I'm planning on just staying...because my lease is almost up' was very telling about her motivations.

[Natalie68]

8 hours ago, Chalby said:

Well, she did point out the step wasn't nailed properly, so I can't just assume David and crew caused anything. As well, her mom appeared very aged and incapacitated, so I'm thinking it was a matter of poor timing.

She was only 67/68.  That surprised me!

[lilysmom]

I think that if Sheila and her family lived in the US, instead of the Philippines, they would have already filed suit against TLC productions for causing the death of her mother, for the reasons already mentioned by other posters. My guess is that TLC will be very willing to compensate the family to keep such an event from happening over there.

[1011101010001]

Hey at least TLC spared us David showering outside.  I am still recovering from Big Ed.

[Leeds]

56 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

The Statler/Dempsey storyline is coming off like a bunch of invented BS from a couple that's probably happily married already. At least they got TLC to pay for the travel and necessary visas.

 

Do you really believe that sweet Demsey is actually happily married to overcompensating, insecure, entitled, user Statler?  I would hope that her down-to-earth, clearsighted, plain talking Yorkshireman Dad will help her see the light.  If not, I certainly don't see a happy marriage.

(Here I am having said upthread that I wouldn't keep watching this trainwreck of a show, still watching a couple of episodes later!)

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

22 minutes ago, Leeds said:

Do you really believe that sweet Dempsey is actually happily married to overcompensating, insecure, entitled, user Statler?  I would hope that her down-to-earth, clearsighted, plain talking Yorkshireman Dad will help her see the light.  If not, I certainly don't see a happy marriage.

I suspect (and could be totally wrong) that Statler is playing things up for the camera. 

 

33 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

She was only 67/68.  That surprised me!

A lifetime of hard living in squalid conditions with little or no medical care will do that to you. Most of us Americans don't appreciate how good we have it.

 

30 minutes ago, lilysmom said:

I think that if Sheila and her family lived in the US, instead of the Philippines, they would have already filed suit against TLC productions for causing the death of her mother, for the reasons already mentioned by other posters. My guess is that TLC will be very willing to compensate the family to keep such an event from happening over there.

Causality would be VERY hard to prove when it comes to rickety handmade stairs in a crumbling home at least partially exposed to the elements. But yes, I suspect TLC forked over some $$$ to smooth everything over and upgrade the place (not in time to save Sheila's mom, unfortunately). In fact, that could be the real reason Sheila came to live with David in the hotel whilst her child went to live with relatives: maybe they're having a bunch of work done on the home (or having it torn down and rebuilt).

Edited July 31, 2023 by Sir RaiderDuck OMS

[Breedom]

34 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Mrs. RaiderDuck pointed out that when they were lying on the bed, Christian had his left leg tucked under his right so he was literally facing away from her.

Great observation by Mrs. RaiderDuck. Christian telling Chloe he doesn't make the first move with women just doesn't ring true. He had no trouble addressing a table full of women to chat; apparently totally unafraid that he would be ignored/rejected/thought of as a fool, etc. Two different scenarios, true, but still comparable. I don't see Christian being much of a catch and if he bails, it'll hurt and disappoint Chloe but this is a guy she doesn't need to be with. He's certainly not giving her any self-confidence or making her feel good about herself.

[1011101010001]

4 minutes ago, Breedom said:

I don't see Christian being much of a catch

He’s like a 5 and balding very young which is why he wears that stupid beanie indoors.

[Stuckathome]

If it is possible to have negative sexual chemistry, it would be Cleo and Christian. And I agree, this is why it is so important to meet in the flesh rather than just facetime for years and years and calling it a relationship. It's one thing if you met and were dating and the one person has to move away for whatever reason and you keep it going over skype. But this.....and Tyree? Violet and Riley too are another great example of how texting video chat does not equal a real relationship. No idea what he does to make Cleo cry next episode (she says something about him lying about their intimacy, I suspect he lies and tells his friends back home that they have been screwing like crazy and Cleo is clutching pearls that they think she is a slut).

 

 

[Breedom]

24 minutes ago, MrBuhBye said:

He’s like a 5 and balding very young which is why he wears that stupid beanie indoors.

Agree, he looks totally different in his TH shots then he does with his beanie. Maybe he should convert to being like Gino; wearing a hat 24-7. LOL.

Jasmine's TH's with Gino: Man, she looks like a different person. I think Jasmine is very pretty but these new TH's . . . she really messed up. Way too much everything and she almost doesn't look real anymore.

[Leeds]

.

[Quof]

1 hour ago, lilysmom said:

I think that if Sheila and her family lived in the US, instead of the Philippines, they would have already filed suit against TLC productions for causing the death of her mother, for the reasons already mentioned by other posters. 

So many reasons this wouldn't happen, including the fact it's the homeowner's duty to keep their own property safe, not the guest's.  

[1011101010001]

34 minutes ago, Quof said:

So many reasons this wouldn't happen, including the fact it's the homeowner's duty to keep their own property safe, not the guest's.  

Yeah it’s kind of like if a heavier guest breaks your chair.  

1 hour ago, Breedom said:

Jasmine's TH's with Gino: Man, she looks like a different person. I think Jasmine is very pretty but these new TH's . . . she really messed up. Way too much everything and she almost doesn't look real anymore.

 

[cynicat]

2 hours ago, Leeds said:

(Here I am having said upthread that I wouldn't keep watching this trainwreck of a show, still watching a couple of episodes later!)

It's OK, we're all in that boat.  I've tried to stop but it's an evil addiction.

[Leeds]

55 minutes ago, Quof said:

So many reasons this wouldn't happen, including the fact it's the homeowner's duty to keep their own property safe, not the guest's.  

Not to mention the 10,000 page contract they would have signed giving up any rights related to filming, broadcasting, etc.

[Scarlett45]

3 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

My heart is with Sheila.  I think David was very supportive and really learned what life was like for Sheila.  I wonder if Sheila would come to the U.S. leaving her son and father behind (I know she wants to bring her son [but he would have his own visa application]) but am not sure if she would leave her father all alone.  I certainly hope production helped pay the costs and agree with others that all the extra weight up and down the stairs may have led to the tragedy. 

I think Sheila would bring her son. Since he is a minor, his application can be attached to hers and they can arrive at the same time. His bio dad isn’t in the picture, I hope he wouldn’t get wind of it from the community and do something shady to block it (you know how people can be). 

[Kiss my mutt]

I couldn’t believe Statler was acting like Dempsey was tramping her way through through Thailand when she herself brags about her conquests. I think she’s full of shit figuratively and literally given the absence of a working water closet which begs the question…where do they go? Is there a bathroom they use in the community center? A shower?

I keep picturing these two when I hear these two, Statler especially with her attitude. 
 

Christian is such a punk. I feel so bad for Cleo. Christian looked like he had one foot off the bed the entire time and his bs excuses for not making a move. He’s experimented with male genitalia so I’m sure he could figure it out. 

[bichonblitz]

My heart breaks for Sheila. She is a sweetheart. I wonder what will happen with her and David. I can't imagine she will want to leave her Dad now. At least not for a while. 

Dempsey- another sweetheart. Too good for that nutcase Statler. But girl.... get the toilet in working condition and get a water heater! Did Statler not know she lived in a caravan in the middle of a farm in nowheresville in the UK? Do these people not send video's of where they live to their on line lovers? I don't get it. I would want to see it ALL before I made a visit. No surprises, thanks. 

Cleo- again a sweet person. Christian waits for the woman to make the first move. Oh, sure. Is that why he was drunkenly climbing all over the girls on the plane to the point the flight attendant had to tell him to back the fuck off? 

Violet every bit as bad as Riley. She didn't delete her dating apps. Said Riley was old and ugly then laughed in his face about it. Had pics of some guy with no shirt on and refused to explain to Riley who he was? Go kick rocks, lady. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by bichonblitz